← ADHD for Smart Ass Women with Tracy Otsuka
ADHD for Smart Ass Women with Tracy Otsuka
EP. 351: Regulation Before Education: Why Calm Brains Learn Best with Meg Schofield
00:52:03
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- [00:06]
A
Richard Branson, Michael Phelps, Justin Timberlake, James Carville. Wait a minute. Where are the women? Greta Gerwig, Lisa Ling, Audra McDonald, Simone Biles. That sounds like a list of highly successful titans in a variety of industries. They all have adhd, but you don't have to hear much about that now, do you? You know what else you don't hear about are the 43% of people with ADHD who are in excellent mental health. Why aren't we talking about them and what they're doing right? I'm your host, Tracy Adsuka, and that's exactly what we do here. I'm a lawyer, not a doctor, a lifelong student, and now the author of my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women. I'm also a certified ADHD coach and the creator of youf ADHD Brain is okay. A patented system that helps ADHD women just like you get unstuck and fall in love with their brilliant brains. Here we embrace our too muchness and we focus on our strengths. My guests and I credit our ADHD for some of our greatest gifts. And to those who still think they're too much, too impulsive, too scattered, too disorganized, I say no one ever made a difference by being too little. I've been creating this podcast for five years with no sponsors, just a mission to help ADHD women like you thrive. But if you're ready for more, listen up. Your ADHD brain is not broken. It just needs the right tools. I'll show you how to work with your brain, not against it. Inside my youy ADHD brain is a OK Academy. For more information, find the link in the first line of this episode's description. Now let's get on with the show. Hello, I am your host, Tracy Otsuka. Thank you so much for joining me here for another episode of ADHD for Smartass Women. You know that my purpose is always to show you who you are and then inspire you to be it. In the thousands of ADHD women that I've had the privilege of meeting, I've never met a one that wasn't truly brilliant at something.
- [02:44]
B
Not one.
- [02:45]
A
So of course, I am just delighted to introduce you to Meg Hennessy Schofield. Meg Hennessy Schofield is a special educator, mindfulness teacher and co creator of the Smile program which blends sensory based yoga with trauma informed education to help neurodivergent learners thrive. With a Master's in Severe Special Education and more than a decade in the classroom, she is known for creating safe, sensory, friendly spaces where students with Moderate to severe disabilities can learn, grow and feel seen. A former Division 1 athlete and high achieving student at Boston College, Meg had spent years masking, pushing through anxiety, perfectionism and postpartum depression before discovering the power of nervous system regulation and mindfulness. A passionate yogi with training and workshops from Kripalu to Cambodia and Thailand, Meg brings a global perspective to nervous system regulation and self awareness. As co creator and director of Smile, she equips kids and young adults with the tools to quiet their minds, build self trust and fully engage in learning and life. When she's not teaching, you'll find her on a spontaneous dance break, exploring the outdoors, or leaning into what she calls ADHD o'. Clock. Always rushing, yet somehow delivering last minute magic. Meg lives on a bustling farm with her husband, daughter, dog and chickens. Embracing the joyful chaos and encouraging others to find healing through authenticity. Welcome, Meg. Did I get all of that right?
- [04:36]
B
Yes. Thank you so much, Tracy for having me. It feels surreal to hear you say all that back and it's, you've made such an impact in my life. Yeah.
- [04:45]
A
Can we talk about your ADHD diagnoses first? I always like for our listeners to connect with you and hear what your story is. So can you tell us what are the circumstances around your diagnoses?
- [05:00]
B
So I was actually diagnosed in my early 20s, but it was also a diagnosis with anxiety and depression. And I didn't really pay attention to the ADHD diagnosis cause I was like, ugh, everyone has a little adhd. And I just kind of pushed it aside and because the anxiety and the depression were really like so much louder and intrusive in every instance of my life. So I just kept going with what I did, always pushed harder, masked more, overcompensated. And then all the times I would struggle, I just thought they were personal failings. And so then I'd start, you know, like beating myself up. And it was just this constant cycle. And then it wasn't until like this past year when I became a mom and I had some postpartum struggles, as many do. But I have an incredible care team, which I'm so thankful for. My provider recommended like, hey, maybe we look more into this ADHD piece and you know, why don't we try you on a medicine? I didn't really want to do that, but I was kind of, I was so not myself in every way that I was literally open to trying anything. Tracy, I never will forget this. It was like two hours after taking it. I walked by a mirror and I saw myself and it was like, hello, Like, I hadn't seen me in so long. And it was like all the busyness in my brain, like, went calm. I wasn't just, like giving a checklist of everything I was failing or I was behind on. It was, oh, here's my beautiful daughter. I live in this beautiful house with my supportive husband. And it was just like, it was just a reality check in the best way. And it really changed my life. It saved my life, actually. When that happened, I was like, wow. Like, maybe I really should, like, you always say the research, like, to figure out. I love doing research. And I got super hyper focused then on adhd, and that's how I discovered your podcast. And it's been like therapy for me.
- [07:17]
A
I love hearing that you're in your early 20s and you get diagnosed with anxiety, depression, and ADHD, but it sounds like all at the same time. But no one sits you down and says, you know, it could be that they're comorbid, that you have all three of them, but it also could be that it is the ADHD and that is causing the anxiety and the depression. No one told you that. So it was kind of like, oh, that's the third wheel. I'm not even gonna worry about that. We'll focus on the other two.
- [07:50]
B
Exactly. Yeah. And then it wasn't until this provider, she was the one that kind of was like, I think it's all connected.
- [07:57]
A
Okay. So I'm sure there are listeners who are saying, okay, what did you take? What was the medication?
- [08:03]
B
It was Adderall, the first. But then I went through a. A process of, you know, figuring out the right one, because Adderall, like you said, in your experience, it just increased my anxiety.
- [08:14]
A
So originally when you took it, it calmed all the noise down, but then over time, it started to go back up again.
- [08:23]
B
Yes. And also the crashes with Adderall just were awful. And I got to the point where I was supposed to be taking, like, small doses three times a day, and it just was, how am I going to manage that with work and a kid? So my provider recommended Vyvanse, but the problem was with Vyvanse is the adult dose was too much for me because I am very susceptible. So a kid dose just came out recently.
- [08:53]
A
Oh, really? I should try that?
- [08:56]
B
Yes. And it has been a game changer, the noise.
- [09:01]
A
And isn't that so frustrating when you take it the first time and. And it totally works, and then progressively it starts not working again and making, you know, creating other symptoms.
- [09:13]
B
Exactly.
- [09:14]
A
I've been there so many times, I'm just, you know, you just kind of give up. So the Vyvanse kid dose, I have not heard this. The one thing I will say it almost never fails. When I talk to a woman who has had success with medication and I ask her, what medication are you taking? It's more often than not Vyvanse, that, that is the one that seems to work best for women. Anecdotally, in my experience, from what, you know, what women tell me, it doesn't.
- [09:44]
B
Like Adderall made me feel like I was like on something like, which I didn't. Didn't feel like me. But Vyvanse, it just allows me to access what I need to access, stay calm, prioritize. It helps me do all the things I struggle with, but without all the backlash that the other ones provide.
- [10:05]
A
Yeah, yeah. And that's because it doesn't just all dump into your system at one time. Right.
- [10:10]
B
It's prolonged throughout the day.
- [10:12]
A
Exactly. That is fascinating. Okay, I'm gonna go take a look at Vyvanse.
- [10:17]
B
So yes, the kid does.
- [10:19]
A
You're on the right medication. It's reliable. What has that changed?
- [10:26]
B
I only could focus. This was my whole life, last minute. I waited to the last minute for everything. Whether that was packing for a trip. I almost drove my mom and my husband crazy over the years because like you had said, I think in your book, like the morning before your flight, like going through the closet. And then I don't pack correctly because it's kind of a half job. I forget things. I brought too many of one thing or you know, like for me with teaching, with special ed, it's the progress notes, it's the three year evaluations. And they would cause me so much anxiety. And if I tried to sit down two, three weeks in advance and write it, my brain wouldn't work. It like wouldn't come on. And it would drive me crazy because I was like, no, I'm doing all the right things. I'm starting in advance. I'm trying to break it down, but it just wouldn't come online. So I needed that adrenaline and that stress, that last minute, the night before, hyper focus. And that's really the only time I was able to do my best work. But then I always had two results. Like if it got finished, I would be happy that it was done. And then I'd be depleted for days because it just fried my nervous system. Or if I didn't complete it or didn't complete it to the level that My perfectionist standards are. I would just spiral into this deep depression. I lived like that for years, so it was brutal.
- [12:08]
A
What were you like as a child, Meg?
- [12:10]
B
I was thinking that you would ask that. And I'm trying to think back and I definitely was very endless energy, big personality. But in my head, you know, 14 things are going on at once. Like, like we said, like so many tabs open, but that was just in my head. But to everyone else, they always say, you know, I was calm, collected, I was driven, but they didn't know what was going on to get me to look like that. Like, all the masking that I was doing. There is this metaphor. Have you ever heard the duck metaphor? On the surface, the duck looks super calm, but underwater, like I used swan. That is me without my medicine and just constantly jumping from one thing to the other.
- [12:59]
A
Were you a good student?
- [13:01]
B
I was, but again, my grades said I was because I would cram and I would, you know, pass the test, but I didn't retain anything. And when I would cram, it was because I actually had to like reteach myself all the information because I couldn't focus during the class. I was more focused on all the subtle energy shifts in the classroom, the tone of voice of the teacher. If he had a stain on his shirt, I couldn't stop looking at that and like wondering what happened to him before class. You know, if I was in a fight with a friend, I couldn't stop thinking about that. And then all of a sudden class would be over and I'd have no idea what happened.
- [13:50]
A
Were you diagnosed with inattentive or combined type?
- [13:55]
B
Yeah, I think it's combined because if I don't work out, then it's like times 10. So it's not that I can't sit still in the class, it's, you know, I need to get that energy out at some point. And I mean, that's why swimming, my whole life, was my saving grace.
- [14:15]
A
That's what got you through school, right?
- [14:17]
B
The structure, Swimming three to four miles a day? Yep.
- [14:24]
A
And so when you were swimming, is that when your brain would calm down?
- [14:29]
B
Yes. You know, there was no sound underwater except my breathing. So it was very meditative, pushing myself to the limit every practice. You know, like, it was how I could get out my frustration and also regulate everything all at the same time. But it also was a double edged sword because swimming is very personal. So you're fighting against your time. It really like made my perfectionism like skyrocket. And if I didn't get A perfect best time. Every race, all this pressure I'd put on myself, I'd consider myself a failure.
- [15:10]
A
So it was while you were swimming. It was meditative, it was calming. But then once you got out and you looked at the time, then that's when you would start beating yourself up if it wasn't perfect, Basically, yes.
- [15:23]
B
It was like the practices were the meditative part for sure, but it was the competition piece.
- [15:34]
A
Loving this episode. Imagine how much better life gets when you have the tools to create your ADHD brain's own operating manual so you can finally work with your brain, not against it. Your ADHD brain is a. Ok. Academy is my step by step patented program to help you figure it all out. Click the link in the first line of this episode's description to sign up or book an AOK discovery call. Now let's get back to the show. How long did you swim for? When did you stop? Did you go to college as a swimmer?
- [16:16]
B
I did, yeah. I swam through college and then I actually quit my senior year for teaching because I couldn't really do the teaching practicums with. With the sport. But I went back actually and did a fifth year as a grad student. So I did get all my four years. So I didn't stop until I was 21, which is when my diagnosis came.
- [16:42]
A
So literally your diagnosis came shortly after you quitting swimming.
- [16:49]
B
Yes.
- [16:49]
A
And that makes so much sense, right?
- [16:52]
B
Yeah, My world collapsed.
- [16:54]
A
Well, we know that. I mean, even if you do 20 minutes of exercise at 70% of your high heart rate, that is comparable to a dose of Adderall and Prozac. So for the adhd, which I think is the anxiety and depression. And so you were literally self medicating with swimming. What a great thing to self medicate with too, right?
- [17:17]
B
Yeah.
- [17:18]
A
And the minute you stopped, that's when everything fell apart. But we don't know that. I mean, you're probably thinking, what's wrong with me? Why can't I?
- [17:25]
B
Right, no, exactly. Yeah. How can everyone else do this? What's wrong with me? Yeah. In every area of my life, it just started crumbling. And then, you know, I wasn't getting the physical fitness either, so I started gaining weight.
- [17:39]
A
Oh, gosh.
- [17:40]
B
And so then my self image issues, it all just compounded, I think also.
- [17:44]
A
With weight, it fogs your brain up and it just. I just don't feel good. And it's not about the, I mean, sure, part of it's vanity, but when I eat too much, everything slows down.
- [17:58]
B
Oh, yeah, for sure.
- [18:00]
A
So I wanted to talk now, if it's okay, about your Smile program, and basically if we can come in from a different angle. First of all, I do want to say I've never heard of a master's in severe special education. And I'm curious, what made you choose that?
- [18:21]
B
At Boston College, they actually have a special needs school on campus. And I remember seeing all the students. It was kind of a half hospital, half school. I was, like, attracted to the students. I'm always very drawn to individuals with disabilities, and I creepily followed them into the building one day. I'm like, where are they all going? And then I discovered this school, and it was a school for severe disabilities. I think now it's phrased high need support disabilities. And so they said if I was interested in this because I was studying elementary education, that I could work at the school and get my degree in severe special ed, and they would help me pay for it. I stumbled into it, and it changed the course of my life.
- [19:14]
A
In what way?
- [19:15]
B
I remember as an elementary teacher, I liked it. I love kids, but it just didn't feel. Not enough isn't the right word, but it wasn't right. And then when I worked with these students, it was like this. This is what I'm meant to do.
- [19:35]
A
So could the word actually be. It wasn't enough. It wasn't intense enough. It wasn't important enough. It wasn't, you know, all of that.
- [19:43]
B
Yeah, that could exactly be it.
- [19:46]
A
Like, you knew, kind of doing the lap, lap, lap, you're going to be bored.
- [19:51]
B
Right. I never thought of it like that, but, yeah.
- [19:54]
A
And maybe it wasn't meaningful enough, too. The ability you have to really make a difference wasn't enough.
- [20:03]
B
Yeah. And these students, they taught me so much about life and just not taking things for granted. Like, they have so many complications out of their control, and they're so happy and positive and. Yeah. And every day, you know, I'd come into work and I'd leave just like my cup was full.
- [20:25]
A
And you don't always hear teachers saying that.
- [20:28]
B
Yeah.
- [20:29]
A
So I am curious if you can remember a specific moment in the classroom when you realized, oh, my gosh, this is about regulation first, not academics. That regulation is really the starting point for learning.
- [20:44]
B
It actually started when I was really struggling with my anxiety and depression, and I was bringing that with me into school. And I'd have hard meetings, difficult parent conversations. I'd feel a lot of pressure from the outside. So I started making subtle changes in my classroom to help me, and then it just was unbelievably effective for my students. And all of a sudden other teachers that we would switch classes with or tutors or parents started reaching out and saying, what are you doing? Something has change, but don't stop what you're doing because it's working. I will never forget that's when my co worker actually, who I started the Smile program with, she's an occupational therapist. She actually came into my classroom to work with my students and she's like, Meg, you're onto something. This is look like these students haven't been able to access this part of their brain since I've worked with them for years. And we're able to get so much more day in and day out because we're starting with regulation and not just with how I'm approaching them, but the environment as well. That's the big key.
- [22:07]
A
So what does that look like when you have a classroom and you're teaching and you're starting with regulation?
- [22:18]
B
All demands are put on hold. I mean, it depends on each school and the schedule. But in my classroom, I'm in a sub separate classroom and I do not start anything of high demand until at least a half hour into the day. And what I do is, you know, I have a coffee cup analogy, right? Like everybody comes in with their own coffee cup. Different temperatures, different levels. You know, some are bubbling, some are sloshing, some of the cups are empty and leaking. And they all come into my class and I always have this safety for them, this buffer. And they know that when they come in, it's always the same. Every morning they greet me, they greet their friends and teachers. They put away their stuff, turn in their homework, and then they relax until it's time for group mindfulness. Oh, I'm sorry. We also go. I have them go over their schedule just to make sure if there's any changes in their day, they're aware of it right from the get go. And then we do group mindfulness, and that's about 20 minutes. And what I do is we start off with deep breathing because it's unbelievable when you connect your breath and your mind. They come in all in their heads and bringing them back to their bodies. And then we usually do some movement. And there's always choice. It's do you want to do some yoga with me and I run a yoga group or do you want to go on a treadmill or a bike? Whatever it is that feels right for you in that moment. We do 10 to 15 minutes of that, and then I end with a Guided meditation. Either one that I read aloud or I love calm.com. they have so many great ones. And it's usually when I sense the students that come in, I can sense it's that intuition that we have. I can pick up on what's bothering them. And then I usually try to pick a meditation to meet that point, like calm your worries or work with your anger or, you know, build up your energy based on, like, what I'm picking up on. And then I kind of use that as the catalyst for the rest of our day.
- [24:49]
A
So you have basically set up a system that totally works for you so that you can give your best work to them. Right. Or your best self to them. It calms you. It calms your nervous system, and it does the same thing for your students. So you're all starting out together at a base that is so much more. When you're there, you're more. So much more capable of learning.
- [25:12]
B
Right? Right. I like to say they digested the coffee in their cup, and now there's room for more to come in. And it's not just the students. It's me. It's my assistants as well.
- [25:22]
A
Everybody.
- [25:24]
B
Yeah. Because it's contagious. We've all worked with someone who brings that nervous energy, and they pick up on it even more sometimes than we do because they're. Sometimes they tend to be more sensitive. So if we're calm and we're grounded, it just rubs off on them.
- [25:44]
A
Absolutely. And the thing is, you don't know where they're coming from. Right. You don't know what their home environment like, what they've had to deal with in that morning.
- [25:54]
B
Exactly. And a lot of my students can't verbally communicate.
- [25:58]
A
Oh, wow.
- [25:59]
B
So a lot of what they are able to communicate is through behaviors or through gestures. So it's really just picking up on those subtle cues.
- [26:09]
A
Tell us, Meg, what's actually happening in the brain and body when we're under chronic stress, and how does that impact learning focus and emotional regulation when the.
- [26:23]
B
Brain'S under chronic stress, Whether that's from trauma, unpredictable environment, or just the constant demands of living with a disability? It's almost like a smoke alarm is just constantly going off in their brains, and it won't turn off. Before I get more into the chronic stress, I want to state that not all stress is bad. Right? Right. There's three types of stress. Before this interview, I had the butterflies. Right. It helps you focus and show your best work. But then there's the tolerable stress, which is you know, I like to. It's like a yellow. A caution. That's more of the. You lost a family member, you moved. It's those. Those experiences that are hard and overwhelming, but if they're buffered with strong support, stable environments, then you're able to recover. But when it's toxic, which is what we are talking about in our book, in our program, it's that frequent, prolonged and stress that it's almost like the smoke alarm's off, but also the thermostats pump in high heat, and it's not turning off. Adrenaline, cortisol, stress hormones are just flooding the body, wreaking havoc on the emotional regulation, executive functioning, physical health, and all those parts that our students need to learn to connect, to make smart decisions. They're offline. They can't even access them. And it's like asking a kid with foggy glasses to read a sentence. You can't ask a kid with a dysregulated brain to learn. It's not going to work. And then those with ADHD and other severe disabilities, it just intensifies all of that sensitivity. So things are louder. Sensory input, things are brighter. Social cues to others that are fine are extremely overwhelming to them. And then if you add in an unexpected change in their schedule or if someone's out, things go totally off the rails. So they're just constantly living in that fight or flight or freeze. So it's really hard to even try to teach them when they're in that state.
- [28:50]
A
So let's say you have a child and you just notice first off in the morning that that child is in nervous system dysregulation. What do you do in that moment to help them, you know, stop the spiraling up and maybe just try to calm it down.
- [29:10]
B
So what I do is I set up my classroom to have all of these subtle nervous system buffers. So the lights are dimmed, there's always relaxing background music on with no words, just to kind of drown out any sounds in the hallways, but also drown out those nervous thoughts in the brain. And, you know, I speak to them in a very slow, calm manner, sometimes even quiet, because if they come in and they're very amped up, they'll be kind of yelling or height. And I model where I want them to be, and then I kind of just let them settle in. And because my setting and my routines and my expectations are always the same, they'll usually go for what they need, whether that's the. I have a bunch of sensory corners all throughout the room. With, like, yoga, boo beanbags, weighted blankets, every fidget you could imagine of all different sensory input. And they'll grab which one they need, and I'll just kind of let them settle in. And then I'll say, you know, when you're ready, we're doing our mindfulness. And I'll have. They'll join when they're ready. But some might not even be able to join, and that's okay. But usually they don't join in the beginning, but halfway through, they'll start making their way over towards us, and they are picking up on the energy that we're all feeling. And even if they can't participate, they're there in their own way that they can be.
- [30:49]
A
So a child is never forced to get with the program. And if they are dysregulated, they go get themselves regulated before they come over. I mean, are they. And I would think that they're probably not allowed to come. I mean, if they're dysregulated, you don't want them around with the kids that are regulated and want to learn. Right? Or are capable of learning.
- [31:11]
B
Yes, yes. If it is a safety concern, for sure. And I'll kind of give. I always usually have two assistants with me, and I'll kind of give them a look, and we'll all be on the same page, and one of them will kind of just float around them, you know, and be that buffer that they need, but also really just be that grounding force that you're okay. What you're feeling is okay to feel that, and then, like, working with them through it so that they're able to come out and then go on with their day. But I've had students that they don't even get to go on with their day because they're so dysregulated when they come in that even by the time the day's over, some of them are still dysregulated. But, you know, when they come in the next day, I am the exact same way I always am. I never hold grudges. Oh, you had a hard day yesterday. I'm nervous about you. No, I am always stable. I am always welcoming again because that's what they rely on. They need that safety, that emotional support.
- [32:18]
A
Can you imagine if all of our schools were run like this for all kids, how much better our education system would be? You know, instead of everything being so punitive and. And this question kind of goes along with it. You know, you hear about parents and teachers talking about kids acting out, and I'M thinking of, you know, having. Having your nervous system dysregulated. And isn't acting that. That phrase, acting out, isn't that basically just nervous system dysreg?
- [32:56]
B
Right. I view that so in special ed, we always say every. We look at every behavior as a form of communication. What is the function behind that behavior? And when I. That example you just gave my thought is their nervous system is yelling, I feel unsafe. I need help.
- [33:19]
A
Yeah.
- [33:21]
B
And the worst thing to do would be to bring out the paddle, put them in detention, isolate them. No. Right? No, no. That's the opposite. And that was so often what I felt like. Right. Like in school, like, not able to survive and just constantly in dysregulation. And it's just then you don't learn, and then days go up by, years go by, and when people are like, oh, that was a great lesson in bio. And we learned this. I still have no idea about bio because I would be total dysregular. But that's just. I can't learn like that. I can't learn sitting.
- [34:02]
A
And how many kids go through that, you know? And actually. And you know, I am totally not against medication. Hey, if it works for you, great. But that. The study, and I don't know how many years ago it was, but it wasn't too long ago where they looked at kids with ADHD and they gave. I think it was half the kids, Adderall and half the kids, they didn't. And the kids for the first year or two actually did better. But then at the end of the three years, they tested both sets of kids, and they realized that the kids on Adderall actually didn't learn anything. They didn't learn any more than the kids that weren't on medication. Yeah. Which is like, what if we change the system so we actually allow these kids to learn the things that they're interested in since they have brains of interest.
- [34:56]
B
Right, Exactly. Yes.
- [34:58]
A
But it's the school system that goes wide instead of deep. And we have the sense that we have to know a little bit about everything, which. Why?
- [35:06]
B
Right. And also, when I think you've mentioned this in the past, but when there's no clear direction of what the lesson is about, then individuals with adhd, it's like, I have no. What's the purpose of this? Like, how. How is this gonna help me? Yes. How is this gonna help me in life? That's why teaching training was actually the time I learned the best, because I'm actually with the kids, hands on, moving around seeing a kid have a meltdown and helping them in the moment like that. Tangible and practical experience is what I think we need more options for kids.
- [35:48]
A
And are there people that teach, you know, that have degrees like you in severe disabilities? Are there teachers who don't teach the way you do? They don't care about nervous system regulation. It's just basically get them in, you know, and everybody's doing the same thing and if you misbehave, you're out. Is it punitive or do all special needs teachers teach like you?
- [36:12]
B
I wish all did, but I think more and more are becoming aware. We're definitely moving out of that strict behavioral focused. You know, you have to be on a behavior plan with reinforcements. And I do think there is a time and place for that, but I think it needs to be in conjunction with regulation because once the student is motivated, you know, that's what, you know, getting the motivator to help them overcome a challenging behavior, you know, mixed in with learning all these tools to help them self regulate, that's what's going to take them farther in life than just strict behavior training in and out.
- [36:59]
A
Oh my gosh, if we all knew how to emotionally regulate.
- [37:05]
B
Oh, I wish I took that class in school, right?
- [37:10]
A
Can you just imagine how much life, how much better life would be? Speaking of that. So I know that you're all about reconnecting the body and the mind. What does that mean? Why? And what are some simple everyday ways that we can start building that connection?
- [37:27]
B
So often when individuals are dysregulated, they're just stuck in the spiral of their thoughts. And you'll see this. They either are like in hypervigilance where they're like on total alert all the time and they can't focus, or they're dissociated where they're just not even there. They're shut down. And actually with both of them, they're not. They're knocking things over, right, because they don't know where their body is in space. And it's just they, they're, they're basically disconnected from their bodies. So by bringing the connection back, I think it's called the body mind. I can't remember the, the individual who coined that, but I love that because they are one being. And when they're connected, energy flows, things move and you start to get grounded in your body and you're able to calm down. That smoke alarm that turn off the thermostat and bring yourself back into the present moment so that you're able to take stuff in instead of just rejecting and pushing it all away. So some things that we do through our Smile program is every yoga form that we do has a sensory component in it. So whether that's, you know, the tactile, that deep touch pressure or vestibular input similar to what you get on a swing, that's very calming. And what we do is we read the student where they are in that moment and then we have specific forms that we do with them to bring them back to that window of tolerance where they're able to function at their best.
- [39:27]
A
So tell us, what exactly is the Smile program?
- [39:31]
B
Yes, so it's sensory and mindfulness based yoga for learning environments. And what it is is that coworker that I mentioned that came into my classroom one day and was like, you're onto something. She, she is brilliant and she's written a couple books on war veterans and trauma. And so she and I got together and she's like, I think we should do something for kids. And I, I started all this research then. So then we went on this research for, for seven years. And yes, it was labor of love, but basically like figuring out, okay, how do we take all of this information, the physiology, the psychology, biology, emotional, everything, and combine it into a way that teachers are able to like implement it into their classrooms. Right. Because when students are not at home, majority of their life is at school. So if we can incorporate these, these programs in, I like to say, like pepper, pepper them throughout the day. Right. Have them in the morning during a lesson, you pause, you take some deep breaths before going to the next class. You have a mindful transition. We might listen to some more calming music, do some exercises, but just pepper it throughout the day. So we're constantly regulating. It's not just in the beginning or just at the end, it's throughout the whole day. And that's what we've come up with. And we train not only yoga teachers, but also regular teachers, occupational therapists, physical therapists, counselors, parents, anyone who's interested. And it's bringing that knowledge about nervous system regulation and these tools that we've had success with in my students, in my classes, and the patients that my co author worked with. And we just make it more tangible and easy to implement.
- [41:50]
A
So did you give us some simple, everyday ways to build that mind body connection if you feel like you're dysregulated?
- [41:58]
B
Yeah. So I'm sorry if I didn't, but it would be the deep breathing. I think that's the best way, is through Your breath, it's like a direct channel to the parasympathetic nervous system. All about visuals. And so I have all these visuals of combining movement with breath so that you're connecting your body. Like there's this one that we do, it's called the Robin's breath, where you have your hands on your shoulders and you breathing in and. And then breathing out. So you're not. Because students often can't feel their breath in their body, especially if they're dysregulated. So adding that movement kind of intensifies the feeling and makes them really connect more to their body and their breath.
- [42:51]
A
Do we have any. Anything more to say about Smile?
- [42:55]
B
We do a workshop where we're training our professionals. It's 25 hours and I actually made it. I brought it up to my co author this year to make it more ADHD friendly. The beginning is all about the science and it's pretty dense. And so we pre recorded it so that individuals can do it at their own pace. And like me, you can rewind many times when things don't make sense. And if one episode takes you along, that's okay. Go at your own pace. Let it all settle in. Because that's also the other thing is we have to be at our own speed when we're learning. Because if it's too fast or too much, you're not getting it all.
- [43:44]
A
Yeah. Or too slow. Right. I'm like, oh, my God, speed that voice up.
- [43:49]
B
Yes, yes, yes.
- [43:53]
A
So, Meg, if you could go back and give young Meg one piece of advice about adhd, stress, self worth, anything, what would it be? What do you think the most important advice you could give her would be?
- [44:07]
B
I would tell her, you're not broken and you're not too much. As everyone always said I was too much and you're not too sensitive. Right. Those are actually your greatest strengths and use them as your compass. Because when I really start to listen to those parts of me, that's when I discover more of the real me. And, you know, that's how I discovered your podcast. And, you know, diving into this work and just also not letting the noise from everything else change. Change your view of the world. Just follow, follow your intuition and trust that the people that love you and that, you know, vibe with you, they'll stick around because they're the ones who actually are really pushing you forward.
- [45:08]
A
The right people.
- [45:09]
B
Right.
- [45:10]
A
So do you have a number one ADHD workaround?
- [45:14]
B
Yes. Auditory input, for sure. When I'm doing a project, I listen to, like, Binaural beats in my ear, or like yellow, no words. But that I've like trained my brain, that that's my focus sound. So, yeah, once they go in, I'm. I'm focused. And then also when I'm doing like chores around the house, listening to audiobooks or podcasts like yours, that I totally forget that I'm doing the task that I don't want to do because I'm just totally entranced in what I'm listening to.
- [45:54]
A
Okay, so you've given two things now where at the beginning you said you just before the medication that you just could not get anything done except at the last minute. So have you now worked out some strategies that actually work? Because the binaural beats. It sounds like what you're saying is when you really want to start something and you don't feel like it, you just, you put it in and it's a signal to your brain that we're not screwing around, we're doing it.
- [46:23]
B
Yes, yes, exactly. And I think that because when I would wait to the last minute, that would be like, there's no. I have no, no other option. I gotta put these in and I just gotta focus. And so I kind of used that when I wasn't able to have medication, and that was what worked. And so now, like combining them with me on medication is. I am so much more productive.
- [46:51]
A
Well, and I think you've trained your brain now, so, you know. Yeah, the medication my son has. My son was on Vyvanse and he was only on Vyvanse for a couple months. And I remember the way I found out is I asked him, you know, he said something to me about, oh, I just wrote a 17 page paper. And I'm like, what? This was in college. You couldn't write a one page paper. How did you write a 17 page paper? He's like, oh, I can totally do it Now I'm talking to him and he's like, oh, well, yeah, my friend has Vyvanse. And I'm like, marcus, you cannot go taking other kids. Vyvanse, you know, you can get your own. You have adhd, you can get a prescription. So he got a prescription, but he was only on it for three months. One day he just said, oh, I don't take that anymore. And I'm like, well, why? And he said, cause I know what I'm supposed to do now. So that allowed him to figure out what strategies actually work for him. So then once he understood the strategy, the system, the structure, he was Like, I don't need it anymore, which was fascinating to me.
- [47:58]
B
That is fascinating. I mean, it makes total sense because you're regulated and then you're able to access tools that when you were dysregulated, you weren't able to.
- [48:12]
A
So maybe that's what the medication does first and foremost for people that it works for is it regulates you, you know, shuts off all the noise and the anxiety and. Yeah. So, Meg, where can people find you if they want to know more about you and what you do?
- [48:33]
B
Yeah, so I actually, I'm not on social media because I. It did not serve me well in many ways. So, yeah, so much of my life is back in my control and I'm way more present with my family and my friends. So I really would love if people just reached out to me through email. My email is meghenscomail.com I also can be reached through the Sensory Enhanced Yoga website, the Sensory Enhanced Yoga Institute. And yeah, I'd love. This is definitely such an area that I'm compassionate about and really want to spread the word to more people and more educators that this is possible and, like, it's life changing for these kids. So if more people want to connect and want to learn more about this and smile and hopefully help their students, I'd love it.
- [49:39]
A
Yeah. And I think it can change any kid's life. It can change any adult's life.
- [49:44]
B
Right.
- [49:45]
A
Once you understand, oh, this is about my nervous system. I mean, ultimately, that's what we teach is when you have a calm nervous system, you can do anything. When it's not, when you're in all this negative emotion, you can't get out of bed. Wonderful. Okay, so we will make sure that all of this is in the show notes. Meg, thank you so much for spending time with us here today. It was an absolute pleasure to meet you.
- [50:12]
B
Oh, Tracy, it was a pleasure and it's fulfilling a dream. Like I said, you're like a celebrity in my therapy. Oh, it's been amazing to be here.
- [50:21]
A
Well, thank you again. So if you like this episode with Meg, please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal is to change the conversation around adhd, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you here next week. You've been listening to the ADHD for Smartass Women podcast. I'm your host, Tracey Outsuka. Join us at adhd for smartwomen.com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women, and my patented you'd ADHD Brain is a okay system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain.
- [51:15]
B
Foreign.
- [51:21]
A
If you've been nodding along to this episode, thinking, wow, this is me. It's time to stop just listening and start making some real changes. My program, your ADHD Brain, is a OK Academy, is designed to help you work with your brain, not against it. It's not about forcing yourself into systems that don't feel fit, it's about finally understanding what does. So if you're ready to stop spinning and start thriving, you'll find the link to my program in the first line of this episode's description. Your ADHD brain is actually brilliant. So let's make it work for you.