B (4:08)

Oh, my gosh. I think that's the best introduction I've ever had.

A (4:11)

I doubt that, but thank you. So the first thing I need to know is what the hell is Stardew Valley?

B (4:18)

It's a video game. It's a Nintendo video game. Yeah.

A (4:22)

Okay, so you're a video game person.

B (4:25)

I do not want to give myself that because I haven't played Baldur's Gate or anything like that, but I. But I do like to, you know, chill out with. With the cozy games. I'm a cozy gamer.

A (4:35)

So what's a cozy gamer?

B (4:37)

It's just, you know, games that are a little bit more chill. I have something called a switch, which is like a handheld device and so you can play it also, you know, obviously put TV on in the background. And so, yeah, that's what I'll do on, like a cozy day if I need to just decompress and, you know, take a break.

A (4:55)

So I have a funny story.

B (4:57)

My.

A (4:57)

My husband recently had heart surgery to fix a congenital issue. And my son, who interested in going to medical school now, he was sitting in his room in my husband's room at the hospital, and he was playing on a switch, and in walked the heart surgeon. And, you know, he's really impressive, really articulate and eloquent. And all of a sudden, he looks down at my son and he's like, oh, that's the switch. Is that the new one? And so Marcus starts telling him, no. I was just walked up literally two blocks to Target and they have it there if you need it. And I looked at this heart surgeon and I said, okay, you totally ruined it for me.

B (5:33)

Now I don't trust the magic is gone.

A (5:36)

He was literally carrying this conversation on, you know, with my not. He's not a teenager anymore, but my very young son. But it was really, really funny. He was super cute. Okay, so let's start with your ADHD diagnoses first. I would love to know what the circumstances are. We have a little window into it, but can, can we talk about that?

B (5:58)

I wasn't suspected of having ADHD as a young person because I did actually I did terribly in school and maths, but really great in other subjects. So I was kind of in that sort of spiky profile space. And so, you know, the idea was, well, just give us a math lessons and she'll be fine. And for me, you know, I had parents, very strong grade orientated family, like that's what we want to do. And I got it in my head from a very young age that you just sort of outwork any problems that you have. And that took me all the way up until the end of my masters and I had a few periods of burnout out, but I was always like, it's just, I'm not finding my passion, you know. So I switched over from like, I'm studying psychology, I'm studying law, I'm studying this. It got to the point where I was told I couldn't change anymore.

A (6:46)

Oh, who told you that?

B (6:48)

I had a professor. I was like, I want to study a master's in sociology. And they were like, you've done no undergrad papers in this subject. I don't think we could do it. No one will hire you. And then I did it and then she hired me. So.

A (7:02)

And that is the best major ever. People make fun of that major. I think it is the most brilliant major because you literally learn how all systems work. Not all, but so many, you know. And so then when you vote and you argue, you actually know what you're talking about. I think it's a brilliant major. So good for you.

B (7:21)

Thank you. That was for me, like at that point I finished my master's thesis, which I still have behind me. I had, you know, I was working three jobs, contracting across two different universities and that was really where I burned out the hardest. I finished my masters and I got. I don't even remember getting told this, but I was like given the grades to have a guaranteed PhD scholarship in my university. And I didn't even really. That didn't even really feature in my brain. I was just like, I can't do it anymore. I left, I went and worked as a cashier at a bakery in my town. I went and got some art school lessons. And you know, it wasn't until I met my boyfriend at the time, now husband, and he was like, wait, you did a master's did you have a scholar? What is going on? Because he got to know me as, as an art student who was working at a bakery in my late 20s and was just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life. But all of my trying to outwork my ADHD symptoms, it just was not working. I couldn't go back to academia with the systems that I had in my life at that time.

A (8:35)

Can I ask you, was it that what you were studying you didn't really enjoy? It wasn't an area of hyper, you know, hyper focus and extreme interest, I guess would be the better word? Or was it just that you really were interested in that subject, but you just couldn't. You were so burned out that you couldn't even sit down and focus on what you did love?

B (9:00)

I think that I was really interested in the subject. I studied gerontology and aging and things like that at the time. But it was the system that came with it. If you've been in academia, you'll know. It's like you might be interested in it and you might even write about it. But then there's the referencing and the checking of the referencing and the ethics forms and all of those little pieces of very detailed. And didn't you know this project was due last Wednesday? That stuff, it just weighed me down. And I, and I didn't have. I was super into productivity at that time. Like so many people, I was learning everything, reading everything I could, but there was no simplicity to my systems. I would just go, well, that worked one time. Let's just add that to the pile. And add that to the pile. And I thought everybody just worked weekends and evenings trying to make it all fit together.

A (9:58)

Before we dive back in, a quick reminder, your brain is not disordered. The problem is no one ever gave you its manual. But I can and I will. Your ADHD brain is a. Ok. Academy is my step by step patented program to help you figure it all out. Click the link in the first line of this episode's description to learn more or book a discovery call. Now let's get back to the show. And I mean, sometimes we do, right? I mean, I'm thinking of my daughter who's in. She's not medical school, she's law school. And she literally works all the time. But that is how everybody works to get through school. The problem is she does have to work harder. Yeah, I'm just thinking of the reading. She was just saying, you know, she just started back her third year. She was saying that she had 300 pages of, or maybe it was 500 pages of reading that week. And she started out the week and she was so strong, and she thought she was going to be, you know, to really get ahead. And she goes, Thursday night. Last night. Yeah. And she tells me, oh, my God, I'm already behind. You know, it's. I think it's certain things that are the struggle, because she loves what she's studying, she loves all of her classes. But that level of that amount of reading, it's just. You know, what she says is it takes her. And she was on Vyvanse. It takes her forever to get through pages that most students can just kind of whip through. So maybe I'm talking myself out of what my initial question was, but let's keep going, because you didn't tell us now, how did ADHD come into that picture?

B (11:40)

Yeah, so ADHD for me, came in. Surprise. I had no idea until somebody told me. And that is despite the fact that one of the subjects I taught was, you know, human development. And we discussed children with autism and adhd. And I did clinical and all that stuff, but it was very much about kids. And so when I. I went to my. I decided I was going to try and do the PhD because I had the opportunity. It felt like I took a whole year off, but I knew that I had to do it differently this time. I couldn't just hit it full speed like I had with the Masters. It was longer. There's no way. And so what I did was I went to my school's learning center. God bless them, amazing people. So lovely. Because I could just wander in and be like, I think. And you know how hard it can be to get diagnosed or get any information. So I went in and I just said, hey, I think there's something wrong. I don't know what it is. Sometimes I'm doing great, sometimes I'm struggling. And they went through a whole battery of different testing. They left me in rooms to write things down and got me to click buttons and. And then, you know, after a couple of sessions, they came and they said, we. We think you should go get tested for adhd. And that was really the first time that I'd heard about ADHD in adults. And I literally went home and Googled ADHD in adults. And it was just bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. And then it was like, oh, you. And then it was like, oh, you know, Jessica McCabe. And so I was like, okay. It's gonna be okay. Some people are giving me a More positive image of what this can be.

A (13:19)

Was this after you quit the PhD, or was it right before? So when you were working in that bakery, did you know, oh, it's adhd?

B (13:30)

No, I had no idea. I got diagnosed right at the beginning. When I started, I'd. I'd quit the. I'd left the masters, I'd finished the Masters, I'd taken the year I was, you know, and spent the time at the bakery and art school, and now I was going back to do my PhD. So I found out that I had ADHD at the same time as I was getting handed papers to sign to start my PhD. Those two things happened concurrently, and so that didn't help. Yeah, it really did. So it. What I did, what I ended up doing was I started doing a lot of research into how my brain worked. I actually started a community because I'd been. I'd been teaching in the university for a long time at this point. So it was very natural for me to be like, I research it, I learn it, I start teaching it. And it, it really did help that, you know, eventually I did leave my PhD, but that was only because I was such a successful business. Sounds, still sounds funny to say the business was so successful by the time I was at the end of my PhD, that I was. I had a choice to make. I was going to double down and go, no, thank you. I'm going to stick with being an academic. That's my life's path. Or I'm going to jump into this future, which, to be honest, was more of my natural instinct, which is the business side. I'm going to run a business. And my supervisors actually encouraged me to leave and start the business, said, yes, you can come back, you can do another PhD. You won't get this opportunity again.

A (15:08)

Okay, so what really happened, which is what happens to, I think many of us, is you found out it was adhd, and then you wanted to learn everything you could possibly learn about ADHD and how your brain worked, and you wanted to do that with other people. So you started, you know, communities, and then they blew up, and you realized that, you know what, this is what I really want to do, 100%. So it was not leaving the PhD because you were struggling. It was. There was something that you felt you were more called to.

B (15:41)

No. And it was so. It was so good at the time. I felt very lucky, I felt very supported, and it was. It was really interesting. Though, I will say, you know, there was a part of me that wanted to finish it as well, like, you know, just so that I could tick it off. But. But I think sometimes, and this is something I've had to learn, and in some ways, it's been a good. It's been a good learning for. To teach other people as well. Sometimes you can't do both things. Sometimes you have two giant things in front of you. They're both massive, and they need your entire attention and focus. Focus is one of the main things I teach. I have so many entrepreneurs. I had one yesterday who gives me, like, seven business ideas. You know, they're like, I'm doing this, and I'm doing this. I'm doing this. And I need. We're like, okay, you're gonna have to focus. And that is gonna mean that we're gonna have to make some decisions. And, you know, I can relate to that. I have done that, and I. On a pretty intense level.

A (16:36)

Yeah. So looking back, I want to know what you were like as a child. I don't know why, but I always want to know that. Are you combined type, first of all?

B (16:48)

Yes. Yes. Combined type. I was your classic precocious child, you know, reading at a very high level, talking to a lot of adults, probably quite anxious, very eager to please. I think eager to please was kind of my. My mouth more than anything. And once I figured out that adults liked grades, then that was kind of what I was doing.

A (17:11)

Exactly. It sounds like a lot of women with adhd.

B (17:14)

Right?

A (17:16)

So we want to do everything we can not to be the problem and to actually be, you know, the star.

B (17:22)

Exactly. Exactly.

A (17:24)

What has changed for you since you were diagnosed? It kind of sounds like everything.

B (17:30)

It was a huge turning point for me. I didn't know it at the time. At the time, I was just like, is this going to be okay? Going to still be able to do this? But I think the biggest thing that changed for me was I'm so lucky. And this is one of the reasons why on my podcast, I still do research recaps and go into the original research, and I have a researcher on our team because I was able to. I had access to all the papers on adhd, all of the research, all of those dusty books and things like that, and I could turn that attention to. That's cool. But, you know, what do they say about how I'd studied neuroscience so I could read those papers? And that. That really gave me this sense of, okay, this is just another thing I have to understand. Like, this is just another research project. And for me, that became what I did. And really, I Got my start, actually. I think I might have even posted on your Facebook group. Back in the day, I started writing articles about ADHD and referencing them, because that's obviously what I did, and saying, okay, this is what I think is happening with time blindness. This is what the research says. And that was really how I started. And it's still. My passion today is to. Is to have that solid research basis so that when people come to me and they say, well, why then I can be like, well, you know, this is the papers that we have and this is the evidence that we have so far.

A (18:55)

Your diagnosis came in the middle of your PhD, or frankly, it was kind of at the beginning you said. Right. Yeah. Had you ever considered building a business at that point, or was that just the farthest thing from your mind?

B (19:10)

That's a really good question. So I. I'd done art. You know, I went to art school during my gap year, so I tried to sell art very unsuccessfully on the Internet. And. But it was really, actually my. My. My partner, he was running a business, so he was running a frozen food business. And I, being myself, you know, overachiever, was like, oh, I'll help with the marketing. Like, I'll help with this. You know, I want to help. You know, we were living together and he was running this business and trying to get it off the ground. And so from that, and also, weirdly, from the art classes they taught you entrepreneurship. And then when he was running a business, he got some government support to learn about running a business and what it looks like. And I said, I'll tag along. And I really loved it, because the one thing that I think maybe people don't know about academia is it's incredibly financially unstable. Even in, you know, New Zealand, which is obviously, like, we're so blessed to have opportunities and scholarships, there is a lot of instability. When I had that year off, you know, I said to some of my contracts, hey, look, I'm going to have to take a break. And they said, cool, we'll never see you again. You know, that was kind of the energy, and it was very contract to contract. And even, you know, you could only do it when you were in the university and all these things. So I'd always felt very financially unstable compared to my peers. That was something I'd always struggled with. I was, you know, always nervous about paying rent and all of these things. And I was still pursuing, you know, my passion at the same time, so learning about, oh, I could actually create something I love, do it the way I love. To do it and I could create financial stability for myself and then now for my family. That felt huge for me. That felt like, that felt like something I'd been looking for for a long time. I'd always been very, you know, I wanted to please, I wanted to do well. I graduated during the recession, so that wasn't really an option in the academic, in the career based world, even if I'd wanted to do it. And so it gave me a sense of maybe this is the security that I've been looking for. Doing what I love. At the same time, which you, had.

A (21:22)

You continued on with your PhD, might never have been there. It would have been a lot harder.

B (21:28)

Yeah, yeah. I very quickly outstripped anything I would have ever been able to get as a, as an academic. And, and even the academics I was talking to, they were like, it's much harder to do it than it used to be. You know, the opportunities are lower than it used to be. I actually had a client. I was very proud. I helped her over several years. She went on my podcast recently. She was able to do it. Now she has like a really amaz job at a 10 year track university and all of that kind of stuff. And I remember meeting her and being like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna make this happen for you. But for me, the freedom of business, the fact that I could still do what I liked, I could still research, I could still do all of those things, but I could do it with this stable framework and I also could teach other people to have that financial stability. It's. I'm so passionate about doing that as well.

A (22:17)

It sounds like it was just a perfect fit. And so my next question for you is, I've been entrepreneurial literally since I could walk and talk. Like, I always remember finding things and wanting to build a business around them. And I'm curious, is that your background as well or was that not true for you?

B (22:38)

I think there was elements of that, but it was channeled into different things. So when I was growing up, the idea of running a business was very much like the idea of deep sea diving. Like, what are we doing? Let's not try and like do that.

A (22:51)

That sounds one of your parents entrepreneur?

B (22:53)

No, no, not at all. They were, they were in banking. You know, it was very, it was very. That, yeah, very different. You know, I wasn't there outside of like the things I did with art and trying to sell art. And I had, so I had entrepreneurial tendencies, but I think a lot of it was channeled into getting the grades. So when I was talking, you know, when I was trying to become a clinical psychologist, I was trying to become a lawyer, I was trying to do all of these things. It was always like, okay, what resources do we need? Who are the people that we need to talk to? What tutors do we need? So there was always like this sort of project based, learning based process. And in some ways it was very entrepreneurial. Now we just do it with money.

A (23:32)

Yeah, yeah, I was actually just going to say that it sounds exactly like you're building something, but. And I think for a lot of us, we can be building things all the time because we don't really care about the money.

B (23:45)

Yep, yep.

A (23:48)

Which you can only do that with a business for so long.

B (23:51)

Yes. Yeah. Well, that's what I have to tell people. And I work with a lot of people who are like, money isn't important to me. And I'm like, that's cool. Let's call it resources. How many, how much resources do you need to live the life that you want? That's what we're going to help provide for you. You know, we're not just necessarily, you know, I mean, I work with people who make 22 million. I work with people making their, you know, first hundred thousand. The systems are still the systems. And it's all about just the stability to live the life you want on your terms.

A (24:21)

Okay, so neurotypical productivity advice, we know that does not work for our brains. What are the biggest myths that you love busting for your clients?

B (24:34)

I love talking about the fact that the Pomodoro method was designed to help Spanish students learn to see, study or I think it was Spanish. Yeah, that was one of the first articles. Italian. Yeah, that's the one. It was one of the first articles I wrote.

A (24:49)

But we still see that all the time in advice for ADHD brains, you know, for productivity. Right. It sucks.

B (24:57)

Even though the transition times are, you know, like. Yeah, and so there's that one. The other one is, and this is something I teach and I love to teach about the way our brains work with rewards. So if you're talking about the neuroscience of how the brain works, you know, while people who are more typical will get boosts at the start of a task, we will just get a bit of a womp. Womp. Why are we doing this? And so adjusting where we place rewards and how we situate the reward system and, you know, in our tasks has changed so many people's lives. And I love teaching that system because once you know it. You're like, that's why the reward at the end, it just felt like, silly and it didn't work for me and I didn't understand. And everyone was like, you'll feel so much better once you do it. It's like, it's too boring, it's too confusing. It's emotionally vulnerable. We have to break those things down to get the task started.

A (25:52)

Okay, give us an example.

B (25:54)

Yeah, so the first, you know, let's say, so if I work with a client, I might say, okay, I need you to. Yesterday it was, we need to go into your zero files and we need to go through and figure out all your previous clients because we're going to do an email campaign for you. Yeah, that's what we're. Okay. And so for them it was like, okay, this is pretty boring. And then at the end of it, I have to email clients that I don't want to do that. So this is not a task. This is a really important task for, you know, your job, but it's not something that they want to do. So when we talk about this, we want to start by saying, okay, let's just simply say, give yourself a reward for sitting down at the desk with the intention of starting. And I talk about the five senses here because people often get lost. They're like, oh, well, I don't want to go on social media. So I'm like, okay, let's think about your taste, touch, sight, sound, smell. Like, what could you bring? You're already doing coffee. We know you're doing coffee. So, like, you're already doing this a little bit. But, but could we sit down and, you know, read an article and have a coffee and listen to some music? I always say, you know, it's, it's a good one. If it starts to feel like a vibe, someone says, like, oh, that would be nice. That would actually be quite nice. And then you do that for, you know, a little bit of time. And then what I say to people, I talk about dialing down your dopamine. We don't want to turn it off, we just want to dial it down. So maybe we switch just to the music and we grab a little piece of paper. I have post it notes here I always use for this example. And we say, okay, what are we going to do during this period of time? Just this period. Let's not look at your full task list. Let's write a recipe to ourselves, say, okay, I'm going to go to open zero. I've got to find this, These, you know, things, I've got to write them down in this document. And that way we know our working memory goes, okay, I understand what this is. And then when we get distracted, which we ultimately will, we can come back and we can keep ticking it off and keep going. And I do all of this, by the way. And then from there we're going, okay, I'm here. I've got some dopamine. I know what I'm doing. Now. Let's just open the application. Let's just open zero. No pressure. We're not starting right now, but let's just open it. Let's just, you know, have a look around, maybe make some notes on your own little notepad, what we're going to do. And then at that point, you've already opened it, you know exactly what you're doing, and you've already kind of boosted yourself there, you know, and maybe the music gets a bit distracting. Maybe we dial it down to just some, you know, biurnal beats or whatever makes sense. And you're just easing into that focus rather than trying to hit this wall and just push through. And that's. That's the process that I teach all the time.

A (28:39)

No, I love that. And I love. I've never heard it called a recipe, but that is such a perfect analogy. Or I always mix up analogy and metaphor.

B (28:48)

I use the recipe metaphor a lot because people. People can understand that. Yeah, yeah.

A (28:54)

I know you have had this problem, and I know your clients have had this problem. I certainly have. Have had this problem when everything feels urgent. What strategies do you use to help entrepreneurs, ADHD entrepreneurs. Cut through the nose and actually focus. Would it be the same thing? Would it be the recipe?

B (29:16)

So, no. So this is what you do once you. So I always say, does it feel like everything's on fire? Or does it feel like you know what you want to do, but you don't do it? There's two strategies that I teach that I love to give away. So actually, if you guys DM me on unconventional organization Instagram, you can just DM me, woman. And I will give it to you for free because I love, love this podcast. Okay, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna do a prioritization filter, which basically means we're gonna say, okay, let's start. You go into the office, you've got 10 people telling you things, Everything feels on fire. We're gonna grab a document. Um, and actually, I teach people to reuse the same document. We don't wanna make a Million task list. But for this one, let's just grab a document or a journal or something. I want you to write down every task that is in your brain right now so it doesn't have to be home or work specific. We want to bring everything together, just write down everything. And we want to get it out of your working memory so we can use that working memory. And then once people have done that, I often, I say, look at what is, what is there? And we want to say, okay, what is truly urgent? Because it has a negative external consequence if I don't do it tomorrow. And at that point people say, oh, well, I have a hundred urgent things. There's so many. And I will tell you that I've done this with hundreds of people and I've never had people have more than five. Most of the time, like 99.9% of the time, you will not have 105, and if you do, you'll have six. And the, the metaphor that I use for this, you'll see I love a metaphor, is the waiting room metaphor. So imagine that your day goes sideways. You end up in a waiting room, and that's your day. You know that you're going to have to be here today. What is the thing you will still do on your phone? Or you will message someone and you'll say, hey, I can't come in tomorrow. I'm not going to be ready for this. That is a truly urgent task. And your job as an entrepreneur is to do the truly urgent tasks and then create space for the important 80, 20 building your business momentum. Movers step into focus on those tasks and ignore everything else because you're not going to finish your task list. Like, we're not going to finish it. You have a million ideas, you have a million things that you have to get done. And so many people will spend their time going, well, I have to do this and I have to do this. It's like, is it truly urgent today? And I have a bigger version where we talk about truly urgent for this week and things like that. And if it's not, then let's work on the thing that's going to get you the resources that you need to actually grow this business. Because so often that's the piece that we're missing.

A (31:59)

So do you find that most of the time we feel like there are so many things that are urgent, but a lot of it is just our energy around, oh, my gosh, I have all these things. And ultimately it really is one thing, right? And if they could just Focus on that one thing, it calms everything else down. So it's often a question of which of these many things, which frankly, none of them really are urgent. I mean, I feel like I am pretty busy, but when I really think about would the sky fall? I mean, I'm not doing heart surgery. Would the sky fall if I didn't get this thing done tomorrow? No. But we feel like everything's urgent because there's so much and we don't know which one to choose.

B (32:55)

I consider myself to be like an ADHD implementation coach because often people will come to me and they'll say, well, I have, I've been to business classes, I know what you know. And it's like, how, how do I get from A to B? How do I get to the business that's running sustainably? And so much of it is, let's sit you down, let's look at your business, let's look at what's actually going to grow your revenue. What is your highest, what is the thing that's currently getting you money? Could we double, triple down on that? Like, let's not do Facebook acquisition plus partnership marketing plus. You know, that's, you know, just, you know, there's no end. And this is the thing about entrepreneurship specifically. So let's look at what's worked, let's look at what's aligned with you. Let's focus in on that. That's your 80 20. So when people work with me, the first thing we do is we do a 30 day focus to growth challenge where we, we actually sign like, this is what I'm doing for 30 days. This is how I'm gon measure it. We make it very clear and then we help them do it for those first 30 days so that they can really understand, oh, wow, you know, I've had people like triple their previous month's revenue going, oh, if I focus this, I can do this. Because so often that's the missing piece, right?

A (34:09)

They have incredible ideas, but you can't do all the ideas at one time. So you end up this scattershot getting nothing done. Okay, so that leads me to what I think I struggle the most with, and I'm still working on it, is delegation. I am of the belief that you need to hire someone if you have ADHD just as absolutely soon as you can. And even before that, because that person, like, I don't like throwing money away. And so if I have someone that is waiting for me in order to get their job done, I'm going to do the thing. And so it's almost like they helped me create structure. But I still struggle with the delegation piece because nothing is more uncomfortable to me. Even thinking about it just makes me tense up than having to explain to someone how to do something.

B (35:06)

Can you speak to that 100%? This is a massive one that comes up so often. And yes, I agree, hiring somebody is super important. As soon as you can. It's actually one of the reasons that I do the 30 days because sometimes at the end of the 30 days people are like, I could hire someone now. I'm like, yes, let's build the system, let's do this. So when you have, let's say you've hired someone because the ADHD hiring process is actually its own thing as well. But let's say you found someone you've hired, then they're great. At this point, what we want to understand is that as soon as you think about giving over a task, you have all of those same blocks as if you were writing out an admin task. This is a boring, boring, boring task. You don't want to do it. You never want to do the task again. In some cases, I've definitely had that experience. I don't want to do it again and try to explain it. Oh my gosh. You know, so the whole point was to delegate it.

A (35:56)

So just read my mind and figure it out. And then they do it wrong, right? And then it's like, so the process.

B (36:05)

That I teach doesn't involve ever doing the task again. So just up front. So what I teach is basically you have your AI system, whatever you like to use, that has the voice feature, very important. And you hit the voice feature and you say, hey, I want to create. Want you to create a systems and processes doc around this thing. I need you to give it a reason for doing it. A recipe and a checklist. I love a recipe at this point. So what we want to do is say, okay, the point of this is I want to, you know, I want to delegate my video editing so I never have to do it again. And it's smooth and simple and you know, in order to do that, oh, I guess I do this first and this second and this third and oh, actually no, you know what, that's first and, and you just little. Have a little chat with your AI and then you get something that's not a hundred percent proper. Like, I just want to say that, right? Because people are like, but it's not going to be perfect. And I have to sit down, I have to perfect it, you do not, you do not. What you have to do is you have to take that, copy it, just hit the copy button, put it where your assistant is working, email, Slack, whatever it is, and say, hey, this is the task that I want to delegate to you. And they're going to be like, oh, thank goodness, she's finally delegating something to me. And this is written with AI, it's not written by me. What I want you to do is I want you to take this and I want you to try and follow it as much as you can. Think about all the things that worked, think about all the things that didn't. You're empowering them in that moment and come back with questions and we'll have a little check in meeting in a couple of days. They run the meeting, you put your hands in your pockets, you keep them there, they run the meeting, they record the meeting, you are, they ask you the questions. The only thing you might do is give them access to something or anything like that. And then they go, okay, cool. Now I've thought deeply about this, I understand, I've come back with questions, you know, I've engaged, I've become empowered on this because you want them to become the leader in this area. And then when you, when they like this, this thing that they're doing, they're like, and you like it, you say, okay, now you go away, you create the systems and processes doc fully, you know, finish it, edit it, et cetera. And then you have something that you can just read through, go, that looks like what I wanted and then you're done. And now you're working from this doc. That's the delegation process that I teach.

A (38:36)

That is brilliant. Because I can, I mean, and it's still painful, right? But I can sit, I can put chat on and I can just walk around. And sometimes I literally feel guilty that chat has to listen to my.

B (38:50)

Right.

A (38:51)

They're vomiting all over the place. But that is brilliant. So you're just as much as you can and then you're handing it over. So they have a general idea what they need to do and then you have them start actually to put the process together and then come back and ask you questions about what's missing. And then do they actually do the whole thing and then update that as well?

B (39:16)

Yeah, yeah. So once they've done it, and the coolest part about this is I always say this, sometimes they'll come back to you, you never have to do it again. And sometimes they'll come back to you and they'll say, I think chatgpt made a mistake. Because this bit and this bit, it doesn't make a lot of sense why they go together and you go, oh, yeah, I guess it did. But no, that was you. So. So you don't have to have that anxiety of like, am I doing it right? Is this correct? And sometimes we have that when we're working with someone, especially when it's a new relationship.

A (39:47)

I love that. Sky, that is brilliant. Okay, so AI I feel like AI changed everything for me. I always joke about, I know I wrote a book, but I'm like Dorothy Parker. I hate writing. I love having written and the fact that I can just talk into it and it has learned my voice and it organizes my thoughts and it helps me process. I just find it game changing, but I just kind of use it generally. Right. Like how you would think you would use it. Are there any AI type strategies that you teach that have been real game changers for you and your clients related to businesses?

B (40:36)

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that one is probably the number one, the delegation system. In terms of the AI. The thing I often recommend is because I work with a lot of people and they'll be like, oh, I don't need an assistant because I have AI. And then I'm sort of going, okay, cool. Well, you are. Yes. You can drop this document in and say, can you make it a LinkedIn using my pre profile? So one of the things that people do, and I actually don't know if I still recommend this because I feel like now everything we write is getting very AI ified. So, you know, just, just be aware of that when you're doing this. But you can drop like say if you've written a long thing and I'm like, you, it's, have I written it? No, I've voice recorded. Yeah, that's a big mess. 100%. That's always the start of it. And then, you know, you can say, okay, can you turn this into a post or can you turn this into a this? But once you are doing this is kind of a more conceptual idea. Once you are doing repeated things with the AI every week, give that job to your assistant. They are supposed to be working with the AI on the repeated task, not you. Just because you can do. Just because the AI can very quickly take a document. And I've been guilty of this and this is why I'm sharing this. Just because you're like, oh, well, you know, if I have written an essay and I want to turn that into a LinkedIn post, I can just drop it in AI, say, look at the previous LinkedIn posts I've written. Please format accordingly. And then it will turn up and it will do it. And then I can put it on LinkedIn. That is still a process that I highly recommend you give to your assistant not doing yourself. So the first thing I would say is those kinds of things of AI jobs, don't forget that just because you can do them at a click of the button. It's still a lot of work if you end your week with a bunch of buttons that you have to click. So just keep that in mind.

A (42:28)

So one of my biggest problems with AI is that it's the organization, it's finding things. And I've got, you know, I use chat and I've got all the file folders set up and then stuff inside the file folders, but inevitably I can't find it or I've been on a thread so long it cuts out and it can't take anymore. And so then I have to start a new one and then I'm not sure, does it know about the last file? And you know, do you have any advice on the organization?

B (43:02)

Yeah, this is the interesting part. So prompting is really important when you're working with AI, because I think a lot of times we want to just have this little like bot that we can just chat with and it's going to remember everything. But the reality is, at this point anyway, that's not the case. So. So when you're working on something, I have a section of like a Google Doc section which is AI prompts. And this is again something helpful for delegation. You can put in. You know, this is the first prompt. This is what I learned actually working with other people who are doing AI is you sort of got a prompt log of saying, okay, this is, you know, if we're talking. Can you give me an example? What's an example of a time you got lost?

A (43:44)

Well, I mean, for example, I put all of. I've been working with, you know, a nutritionist and some clinicians related to hormones. And I'm constantly talking to it. I'm telling it what I'm eating, I'm telling it, you know, this supplement, that supplement. I'm using it for research. Like I'm doing all of this inside of one of these files and it just, you know, it cuts out finally and it tells me, well, we can't do anymore. And then it just feels like it doesn't pick up from the last one. It starts making Stuff up is what it does. And I'm like, I never told you that.

B (44:23)

Yeah.

A (44:24)

And that might just be the nature of where AI is today. But I can't help but thinking when I look at this mess of all these different files and all the stuff inside each one, that there is a way to make it so much more organized so that it helps AI's brain.

B (44:40)

Figure out where things are 100%. So this is what I, this is a great example of getting a prompt doc. So having a document and you can ask AI to make this document and then you can ask AI to update this document. But if you have a document that is all of the nutrition advice that you have been given specifically, then you can say, okay, I want you to, you know, go ahead. And I want you to, you, you could upload the document and then you can say, hey, based on this, you know, research this document, give me this, this, this information. And then when it's done that you can ask it to update the document. You're going to have to be careful to make sure it doesn't change anything when it updates the document. But sometimes you can do things. So one of the things that I've done in the past, for example, which was quite helpful, was if you have a contract that you have to read, like a 30 page contract, you can upload it, you can compare it to something else, you can do all of these different pieces that, that's often a really great way to work with ChatGPT. So essentially the key is, and I will say just up the front, I, I don't consider myself an AI expert. I feel like no one can be at this point is, you know, if you can make a doc that you can keep updated that has a summary of all of the information you need with regards to nutrition, you can then upload that into the AI and ask the AI to help you answer questions and do de research and do deep thinking and then keep that doc offline. And you know, things like notion AI is pretty good now. You can, you know, hit record and it's going to transcribe everything and it tends to be better at like looking through all your documents than something like a chat bot like chatgpt would do. So that's probably the best thing I would say is that AI works really well, but it's not going to remember everything, at least not at this point when you're talking to the AI bot. So you really want to have a prompt system that you can use to have it. And once it becomes repetitive, give it to your assistant.

A (46:48)

Whenever I'm telling AI anything, I'm always thinking again, oh, my God. I mean, obviously it's a bot, right? It's not a real person. But I'm thinking, this AI must be so annoyed at me because I literally. That's how I process. Right. I'm here, I'm there, I'm down there, I'm pulling out from. And as I'm talking to it, I'm making more sense. And all of a sudden then I get to the crux of, oh, wait, wait, this is actually the question. And so what you're saying is you don't do that. You actually have prompts that you use for specific instances that are very clean and filtered and organized.

B (47:30)

Yes, And I will say there is a prompt. You can get a prompt to create a prompt. You can ask the AI for it. You can, you know, so if you are somebody who's like, okay, sky, you're talking about prompts, what the heck is going on? You can actually ask it or look some something up and say, okay, I'm going to try and create a prompt that means that every time I want to ask you about nutrition, you're going to pull up this document, you're going to review it, and I'm going to be able to chat to you like I normally do. But you're going to take that deeper information and use it. Explain to me how I would do that. Walk me through, step by step. And then it can tell you what to do. And then you have a prompt. Prompt, Doc.

A (48:10)

So that I know that whenever I'm talking about X, it's going to know exactly what I'm talking about. And it's going to be pulling from the same bank of information that I am.

B (48:20)

Exactly, exactly. It's like everything, we just, we're just creating new systems to support ourselves in this new world. Right, Right. Okay.

A (48:29)

I guess that makes a lot of sense. You said something about Notion and AI, and I am a huge. This year I got my whole team on Notion. We built all our systems out on Notion. And so I'm a huge believer in notion. I went in kicking and fighting and.

B (48:48)

I did too, actually. My assistant was like, you have to try Notion. And I was like, no. And then the AI turned up and it's been so much, so cool.

A (48:57)

Now talk to me about AI and notion, because I didn't even know that was a thing.

B (49:01)

Yeah. So there's a Notion AI, It's a little bit more expensive, but what it allows you to do is it allows it basically, you can search the whole Notion database, which I love, and you can also say, make me a dashboard about this thing and it will do that. Or you can say, you know, you can. Now there's a recording thing, so you can hit a button and it will record all of your meetings, it will provide a transcript, it will provide a summary, which I use for my clients because it's actually one of the best summary docs I've found and I've used a lot of them, and it does all of that. And then all of that data is then stored within your space. So if you want to go deep on storing data currently. And again, I'm not an expert, but then I don't think anyone is in this world right now when it comes to AI. I personally like to use Notion. But if you don't have an assistant, this is your. This is your sign to get one. Because using Notion without an assistant is really difficult because you always kind of make a new database and then, yeah, it can be really easy to get lost in Notion. I'm just going to say that up front.

A (50:10)

Gosh. But once you get it all organized, I mean, we have everything. Not everything, but most everything automated now, you know, all of these systems that. That nobody needs to think about them anymore because it reminds us. But yeah, it was kind of hell getting there. So it sounds like you're saying on Notion and AI, or Notion AI is just get it and start using it and you will figure it out.

B (50:36)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can ask it questions. I think that's the best thing. And the thing that always remember about AI is when you get stuck, you're like, how do I talk to you? In a way you're going to remember everything. Just ask it. Ask it. That information. It will usually tell you.

A (50:50)

But you know what you just said, it's so like, duh, Tracy, what were you thinking? You need to create a prompt so you're not constantly repeating yourself. If you knew how many times I'm uploading stuff, you know.

B (51:02)

Oh, I know. I work with a lot of people who have this problem.

A (51:06)

Okay. A prompt. Prompts. Okay. So that's where you start with any question that you want to ask of AI. Like you're thinking about. If nothing else, just ask it. Like, what is the best prompt? This is what I'm trying to do. I need a prompt and it'll tell you. Okay, well that, yeah, it sounds so silly, simple. But I'm sure most of us like me are not using it. And I've heard about Prompts, and I've tried prompts, but they all just seemed so kind of, like, overdone and not specific to what I needed.

B (51:36)

Yeah, someone wants to give you. Someone wants to give you a thing. And. And, yeah, it's. It's like. Yeah, it's. That's how I would do prompts and projects. If you have two things, problems and projects. And ask the AI.

A (51:48)

Okay. Okay. So if someone is sitting here, one of our listeners with adhd, and she's listening, and she's dreaming of starting her own business but feels completely overwhelmed, what is the very first step that you would tell that person to take?

B (52:07)

That's a good question. I mean, I often say, you know, you're working as hard as you can. You need new systems, you know, not new ways of working. But if we. If we move past all that and go a little bit more entrepreneurially specific, the first thing I would say is, you are a business owner when you sell something to someone. So the first question you have to ask above anything else, above branding, above niching above anything, is, what is the fastest and easiest way that I can sell something to somebody right now? Because if you sell something and somebody else buys it, then you are now in business and you can grow that. That. And no amount of conferences is like, no amount of getting ready is dedicated to that.

A (52:50)

We're buying all these programs.

B (52:52)

Exactly.

A (52:54)

So my story is that I literally went. I'm not even kidding. For a whole year, I did not feel comfortable on video. Like, I was perfectly fine getting up in a room and talking or giving a speech or any of that. But there was something about the online thing where you don't know who's out there and you can't. Like, I feed off of other people's energy, and there was no energy. Right. One whole year, I bought every program, every app. I did, you know, the most beautiful backdrops. Literally, I did everything except for actually hit record and get out there. And so it sounds like what you are ultimately saying is you basically get from one point to another. The shortest distance, whatever that phrase is, is a straight line. So the quickest that you can actually get into action and do something that involves actually getting yourself or your product out there and selling it.

B (53:50)

Pretty much. And that's the key, is you. Yes. Your background will get better. It will get better over time. You know, I don't need to tell you. I'm sure, you know, like, how, like, you. You look at this stuff and you go back in time. We've been in business now for five years and I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that I got on the zoom call with that terrible wallpaper in the backgr, whatever it was at the time and nobody minded. I was starting out, you know, so just start and sell something. As long as you have something that is valuable to somebody else that they can will exchange money to receive, that's it. That's. That's what business is. It's core. So focus on that.

A (54:27)

I love it. What do you think the key is to living successfully with adhd?

B (54:35)

I think the key is knowing your brain, understanding your brain, ignoring advice that isn't built for your brain, and then feeling confident to go out and do things the way that they work for you. So feeling confident to turn up in a way that is natural for you. Because the end of the day people often ask me this, should I tell people I have adhd? Should I disclose? And at the end of the day just, you are working in the way that works best for you. If you can do that and you can say, look, I have these strong strengths, but I also have these weaknesses. This is how I work, this is how I show up. And you can just go after it in that direction as much as you possibly can. That is to me, the secret of success. And don't do a hundred things at.

A (55:30)

Once, only do one thing at a time.

B (55:34)

So.

A (55:34)

So you've built systems designed for unconventional brains. Can you share an example of how one small shift literally changed everything for a client?

B (55:47)

Gosh, yeah. I have so many great ones. I've had clients, like I said before, I have had clients who went from I don't even know if I can stay in academia to getting tenure track positions and now feeling really confident in their professions, which I'm so proud of, of. I've had people go, I don't know if I can be a full time athlete to getting sponsorships and traveling around Europe, you know, racing. I've had people go from, I'm a playwright, but I feel like I can never focus on the actual writing part and I'm not actually growing to getting $200,000 worth in grants and being able to grow. So, so many transformation opportunities and so many times, you know, we start something and, and nobody cares about it, you know, it's like not important at the time. And that's fine. Like that's what it looks like. But you water that seed, you plant that, you water that, you grow that, and next thing you know, you're going to be in a position where you have an assistant contacting you, saying, hey, we got to get this done. This is important. And you're going to sit there going, but I started this in my. In my room with an idea, and I just thought, you know, and that's. That's how everyone starts. That's what it looks like to start these things.

A (57:00)

Thanks. What is your favorite part of what you do?

B (57:05)

My favorite part is getting the results. I think that's the key. People don't understand that if you work with your brain and you build systems, I've had clients, you know, triple their revenue from the previous month in a month when they. When they work on what we do. So I love seeing people go, oh, I can build these systems, and I love them, and they fit better with my brain.

A (57:30)

And.

B (57:30)

And now I am in a more financially stable place than I used to be. I'm taking care of my family in a way that I didn't feel like I could. I have more opportunities for support that I didn't have before. That feeling, Just giving that to other people, that makes me so happy. That's what gets me up in the morning.

A (57:48)

So, sky, are you working on something that you want to tell us about?

B (57:54)

Yes. Well, I am. I am working on my Focus Balance group growth program. That's what we've been working on all year. So if you guys want to check it out and see if you qualify, if you're an entrepreneur who is growing their business and needs systems and you want to connect with other entrepreneurs doing the same, you want those systems, you want the accountability. That's what I'm. That's what I'm doing at the moment.

A (58:17)

And do you do this one on one, or do you do groups? Or is it both?

B (58:21)

It's both. So we do. I meet you one on one a couple of times, and then there's groups, and then there's a lot of accountability, a lot of different tech that we use as well to kind of keep you engaged and keep you focused. And it's something that we've been testing over the past year and a half, and we're very proud of the results that we've seen people get.

A (58:42)

Tell us again, where do they go?

B (58:45)

You can go to Unconventional Organization. If you want to find me, you can go to my podcast, the ADHD Skills Lab. And if you want the free resource on how to reduce overwhelm as an entrepreneur, you can just DM me. WOMAN on. On Instagram at Unconventional Organization, and I will give that to you for free.

A (59:03)

Is that women or woman.

B (59:06)

Honestly, I will do both because it's actually me or my assistant doing it.

A (59:14)

Sky, thank you so much for joining us. It was such a pleasure to talk to you.

B (59:20)

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I love this conversation.

A (59:23)

Thank you. So that's what we have for you for this week. If you like this episode with Skye, please let us know by leaving a review. Our goal, well, you know, is to change the conversation around adhd, helping as many women as we possibly can learn how their ADHD brains work so that they too may discover their amazing strengths. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you here next week. You've been listening to the ADHD for Smartass Women podcast. I'm your host, Tracy Otsuka. Join us at ADHD for smartwomen.com where you can find more information on my new book, ADHD for Smartass Women and my patented you ADHD Brain is a okay system to help you get unstuck and fall in love with your brilliant brain. ADHD is not the problem. The way we've been told to manage it is. If you're tired of feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or like you're not living up to your potential, I want to help. My youy ADHD Brain is a okay is a step by step patented program that actually works for ADHD brains like ours. No more forcing yourself into ordinary brain systems that just don't fit. If you're ready to thrive, find the link in the first line of this episode's description. Your brain is brilliant. Let me prove it to you.