Podcast: ADHD for Smart Ass Women with Tracy Otsuka
Episode: EP. 358: Sit, Stay, Breathe: ADHD Brilliance in Dog Training with Devene Godau
Date: November 12, 2025
Host: Tracy Otsuka
Guest: Devene Godau

Episode Overview

This episode explores how ADHD traits—creativity, empathy, adaptability—can be transformational strengths in both dog training and life. Tracy Otsuka and professional dog trainer Devene Godau delve into the intersection between neurodivergent thinking and animal training, highlight the unique challenges and superpowers associated with ADHD, and draw fascinating analogies between motivating dogs and motivating ADHD brains. Devene shares her personal and professional journey, discusses science-backed training methods, addresses common owner frustrations, and offers practical advice for both dog lovers and those navigating ADHD.

Key Discussion Points

Devene’s ADHD Journey and Diagnosis

• Diagnosis Story ([04:18]): Devene describes her late-in-life ADHD revelation, catalyzed by the psychiatric evaluation of her children. "I was sitting in the psychiatrist room...and I was like, yes, yes...Are you answering for your child or for yourself? And I said, both."
• Impact of Diagnosis ([05:49]): The shift to self-compassion and pragmatic problem-solving post-diagnosis. “I immediately had more compassion for myself and it made life so much easier.”
• Medication and Academic Retrospective ([06:12]): She reflects on how medications helped her and the lingering frustration at a late diagnosis: “If only I had taken this in college...I could have done more.”
• The “Good Girl Who Talks” ([09:35]): Devene talks about being a talkative, bright student punished for excessive talking, not poor academics or behavior. “Teachers would tell me all the time... stop talking. And I would instantly get super embarrassed.”
• College and Early Work Life ([12:18]): Journalism as a path of least resistance because it didn’t require math, and her joys and anxieties around public-facing roles.

Dog Training as a Neurodivergent Path

• From Journalism to Dog Training ([21:27]): How Devene’s career transitioned from journalism and marketing into professional dog training, initially driven by her love for dogs and her experience with her greyhound with separation anxiety.
• Scent Detection Dogs Explained ([21:55], [23:01]):
  • What “green dogs” are—potential working dogs pre-trained for scent detection.
  • Dog breeds suited: “Our lines mostly were hunting dogs...her tenacity, she will work until she passes out.”
  • Training techniques: Starting puppies with games, identifying motivation (toys vs treats), and imprinting on key scents.
  • Practical challenges: A dog’s confidence, the need for creative outlets, and how physical activity (swimming) became a critical “enrichment” to enable focus—paralleling ADHD needs in humans.

Notable Quote

• “Sniffing is magical...I equate it to meditative breathing.” – Devene ([23:23])

Enrichment, Motivation, and Canine "ADHD"

• Parallel Between ADHD and Dog Motivation ([28:20], [30:33]):
  • Dogs’ focus and distractibility is akin to ADHD. “If you have that outlet, you can focus now. That dog is now working on the East Coast. So it worked for him.”
  • High-energy, high-drive dogs (like scent dogs) can be “annoying to live with” if not given appropriate challenges.
  • On the upside: “I am not a nine to five girl...that job...really did fit my ADHD personality. It was always exciting.” ([32:56])

Clicker Training and Modern Behavioral Science

• Greyhound with Separation Anxiety as Origin Story ([34:17]): Devene’s first greyhound couldn’t be trained with traditional methods and panicked when left alone, propelling her into science-based, positive training.
• Clicker Training Demystified ([39:27]):
  • “The marker marks the behavior that we want. It gives us a tool to communicate. Yes, that's exactly what I want.”
  • Clickers as communication—and confidence—tools, especially for rescued dogs and those with past negative conditioning.

Notable Quotes

• “After we introduce the clicker...I will often have reports that after that they play for the first time.” – Devene ([40:07])

• “She was that impressed by your patience.” ([38:08], re: why she was recruited as a volunteer trainer)

• Are Some Dogs Untrainable? ([43:02]): Judith on “stubborn” breeds (like shih tzus), and how “unmotivated” is a kinder and more productive lens than “stubborn.” Parallels drawn to how ADHD individuals are misunderstood.

Notable Quote

• “When people tell me my dog is stubborn, I'm like, you say stubborn, I see unmotivated. How do we motivate them? Which is exactly the conversations we're having in the ADHD world too.” – Devene ([45:14])

Anxiety, Emotional Mirroring, and Dog Behavior

• Dogs as Mirrors for Owner Emotion ([53:15]):
  • They pick up their owners’ anxiety, often responding with stress, reactivity, or agitation.
  • In class, breathwork and relaxation for owners are prioritized so dogs don’t absorb tension. “I'll put breath work into class. Like, okay, we're gonna throw some treats on the ground...you can take a deep breath.”
• Gamification for Human ADHD Brains ([62:11]):
  • Suggests creative and randomizing methods to keep training engaging for both dog and owner.
  • “Let’s give you a deck of cards with different behaviors on it. Draw a card, go do that behavior!”

The Power and Importance of Sniffing ([64:04])

• Sniffing as Self-Soothing:
  • “Sniffing for a dog actually builds production of serotonin...it's a self-soothing exercise.”
  • Allowing “sniffaris” (let dogs lead and sniff on walks) can be far more enriching than forced, brisk walks.

Notable Quote

• “20 minutes of sniffing will equal about an hour of walks...even my senior shepherd...comes in and she's exhausted.” ([65:57])
• “They're getting all that information...it's a postcard from the world.” ([67:00])

Science, Resources, and Workarounds

• Resource for Clicker Training ([67:45]): Karen Pryor Academy is recommended as the best resource globally for learning clicker techniques.
• Devene's ADHD Workaround ([68:33]):
  • “My number one rule as an ADHD, it's neurodivergent, is to have quiet time in the morning with my coffee...I make sure I have those stuffed Kongs or beef cheeks...that will keep them busy for that half an hour.”

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “No one ever made a difference by being too little.” – Tracy ([02:57])
• “I was the good girl that happened to talk.” – Devene ([11:25])
• “I wanted to go into zoology...but journalism didn’t require math and I could not focus on math.” – Devene ([06:37])
• “ADHD women are my people, and I’m here to acknowledge, support, and cheer them on.” – Tracy ([02:20])
• “Working with scent detection dogs is...watching dogs have so much fun locating things.” – Devene ([24:57])
• “You say stubborn, I see unmotivated. How do we motivate them?” – Devene ([45:14])
• “They pick up anxiety a lot.” – Devene ([53:15])
• “Let’s give you a deck of cards with different behaviors on it. Draw a card...just to make it more fun.” – Devene ([62:11])
• “20 minutes of sniffing equals about an hour of walks.” – Devene ([65:57])
• “My number one workaround is...frozen bones in the freezer...so I get to sit there blissfully with my coffee, watching my morning news.” – Devene ([68:33])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:18] – Devene's ADHD diagnosis story
• [21:27] – Transition from journalism to dog training
• [23:23] – Scent detection dogs, training, and motivation
• [39:27] – Clicker training explained and its impact
• [45:14] – Reframing “stubborn” to “unmotivated” in both dogs and ADHD
• [53:15] – How dogs mirror their owners' emotional states
• [62:11] – Gamifying dog training for ADHD brains
• [65:57] – The science and value of sniffing for dogs
• [67:45] – Resources for clicker training
• [68:33] – Devene’s top ADHD workaround

Further Resources & Where to Find Devene

• Devene’s new blog and resources: distracteddogowners.com
• In-person classes (Metro Detroit): K9 Turbo Training, Ferndale, MI
• Clicker training certification: Karen Pryor Academy
• Tracy’s book & ADHD program: ADHD for Smart Ass Women Website

Tone and Takeaways

Tracy and Devene’s conversation is candid, humorous, empathetic, and full of actionable advice. The episode is a celebration of difference—both in brains and breeds—and champions science-backed training, self-compassion, and “gamifying” life to leverage one’s natural strengths. Listeners, whether dog owners or ADHDers, will find resonance in reframing struggle as opportunity and in the reminder that joy, creativity, and connection (with dogs or people) are always possible.