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A
Hey, this is Nord Nasir for AdTech Unfiltered. In this episode, we sit down with Chad Haken, founder and CEO of value driven media company Ghibsly, to discuss what some of responsible media is looking like today and why values driven ads aren't
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just a feel good initiative, but a
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measurable driver of business outcomes. From connecting brand purpose to to consumer behavior, to proving ROI through creative ad formats that fund real world causes, Chad challenges the industry to rethink how we define success. If you've ever wondered how ethics, empathy and performance can coexist in the same campaign, this conversation is for you. Let's dive into this episode with Chad now.
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B
Chad, thanks for being available. I know we've been talking about doing
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C
a episode on responsible media and your
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involvement in it for quite some time, so looking forward to this.
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D
Yeah, thank you for having me.
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C
Chad, for listeners unfamiliar with Ghibsly, can you give a 30 second explanation of what sets it apart in the ad tech space?
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D
Yeah, I mean, I think at Ghibsly, you know, we have various advertising and marketing solutions that help people connect on shared values between a brand and a customer. And you know, that can mean several things when it comes specifically to us. We started out as an experiential company of connecting, you know, partners to agencies and brands based on those shared values. And that is still a significant piece of our business today where we raise, raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for different experiential events where people can still come and network and actually do business, but do it in a way that's, you know, kind of showing who you are as a human all the way to our media offering where consumers engage more with ads and then we trigger nonprofit donations to the nonprofit of the brand's choice. And so what's good about the ad solution is it gets more attention and eyeballs on the ads and the performance goes up while brands are able to communicate those values to the general public. So, so those are some of the core ways that we work in the market.
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C
So I see where Gibsly sits as being under the larger umbrella of responsible media but taking a couple of lanes in that space. Knowing what you just shared, what are some of the biggest challenges you faced in convincing brands to adopt some of that values based advertising?
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D
Yeah, I think it's helping them realize that this is more of a consumer behavior than just about communicating their values in more of the traditional sen in which they've probably done it historically, like cause marketing. It's not that we don't work with cause marketing campaigns when it comes to the ad product. But we recently did some research with Global web Index around this rise of conscious consumerism. We see examples all the time of people voting with their wallet. And the reality is that 88% of US consumers said that they look for values alignment when they're actually selecting a brand. And so what I say to brands all the time is, you know, if I told you that 88% of your consumers were sports enthusiasts, you would have that on pretty much every campaign. And so it's getting them to understand that this focus on values from the consumer and this voting with the wallet is, is really a behavior that stretches far beyond cause marketing. It's really something where in that research, six out of 10 consumers said that they really want brands to talk about their values in product campaigns so that it can help really guide their purchase decisions. And so I think it's, it's getting these brands to think about how to apply this in a way that actually drives sales rather than just solely tells the story of what their values are. And it's not that one is better than the other, but I do think, especially as we move into an economic situation that's a little bit more uncertain, it's a very efficient way for brands to tell that story, but do it in a way that's also driving sales.
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C
From what you've just shared, Chad, how do you think the ad tech community defines what responsible media is in the advertising landscape?
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D
I mean, look, I think it's really broad. It can be ethical AI, it can be data transparency, it can be fighting misinformation, it can be values based media, it can be low carbon inventory supporting minority publishers. I mean, I think that it's really, really broad, but I think that that really creates a lot of opportunity for companies to come in and actually make our industry better. You know what I mean? And I think that that's really all that it is. It's saying, don't you want to work with the most transparent and ethical companies in the space? And I don't know any marketer that would say no to that. And so I think that really at the end of the day, that's what responsible media is.
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C
I was having a conversation earlier today and I know it's not the first one. There's been endless ones that have been taking place in the advertising landscape, in the corporate landscape at large that you and I have even connected on. That there was this lean in towards responsible media and many of the different topics that you described. And I'll go ahead and lump DEI just for the purposes of this conversation into there too. And since then, there's been really so many steps back from there. So how would you define or describe this moment when we're thinking about doing values based media or responsible media, considering where we sit right now in 2025?
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D
Yeah, I would say that I don't see it as steps back. I see it as leadership pushing that there should be steps back. But I don't think that the consumer behavior actually supports what leadership wants. And so I think that brands and agencies and anyone, you know, doing marketing needs to really pay attention to that. Because, you know, you brought up dei. The one thing that I say all the time in meetings is show me one brand that has rolled back DEI and their sales went up. There isn't one. And if there is anyone listening, please message me. I'm not trying to mislead anyone with that. But I have not seen any examples where walking away from DEI is actually positive. You know, I think that what people need to understand is they need to stretch their thinking beyond a policy. The reality is, is that 40%, more than 40% of this country is a person of color or a queer person. It's the segments that are growing, it's the segments that have disposable income. And I don't know any brand, especially in this current environment, that can say, yeah, I'm willing to chance it and walk away from 40% of potential customers. And so I think that people really need to pay attention to what the consumers are doing. And I can name off seven or eight brands right now that we've seen in the trade lord in the last 30 days. Rei, Coca Cola. You know, there's different ways that you see that those brands make decisions and there is some type of backlash because it is contradicting with, you know, values that they had previously stated. And so I think from that standpoint, that's what brands need to pay attention to, not what, you know, some change in tide of leadership in this country has said needs to be the case. Because I think that we're seeing every day that that's just not how consumers are behaving, that they actually expect brands even more to showcase those values.
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C
So you're saying that consumers are standing by their convictions, that they're voting with their dollars. So you're kind of already answered some of the question I'm about to ask you, but there may be more to it. What are the risks for brands that don't authentically stand for something or fail to align with the values of their consumers.
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D
Well, I mean, one of the things that was super interesting about the research is when you look at multicultural, when you look at Gen Z Millennials, when you look at affluent people, they significantly over index with wanting to know the values of the consumer. And so I would say to answer that question is that those are the future consumers. And so when a brand ignores this, when they decide to sit on the sidelines and be neutral, they're really becoming irrelevant. That is where your market share is going to be taken. Because there are younger brands that can be more nimble, that are less afraid, they have less to lose and that they're going to come in and understand that Gen Z Millennials, this is what they look for. It isn't the only signal. Let me be very clear. You know, if you are at the shelf and there is a bar of soap for $5 and a bar of soap for $2 and you're living paycheck to paycheck, don't get me wrong, you're probably going to pick the, you know, the cheaper price. But there are some very significant categories where this does become the primary signal. And so I think that it is a way of future relevancy for these brands when speaking to the consumers that will have the deepest pockets going forward.
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C
Let's lean into the opportunity from a business perspective. The obsessive term that is being brought up repeatedly in the advertising space as we move away from the cookieless future and some of these old conversion methodologies that we've been obsessed with or these, these touch points is let's move away from cookie based conversion. Let's talk more about general business outcomes. Yeah, so let's talk about business outcomes and performance. How does responsible media or more specifically related to gibsly values based advertising translate into tangible business results for clients?
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D
We see that in our creative formats that are offering some sort of donation for engagement that the brand awareness goes up to quadruple. We've seen that in some cases we see that even at the lower funnel stuff where store visitation will see north of 25% incremental visit lift. And so there are definitely all of these signs that by showcasing that value with a product ad, it definitely makes people lean in more. And so those are the tangible examples that we see all the time where you know, you have a CPG brand that's like just trying to sell butter, you know what I mean? And they utilize the fact that they also have the value of supporting food insecurity to make people complete the Video, you know, at a higher frequency. And so I think from that perspective, if I'm being honest, and I would love your perspective on this Norf, you, you're open to sharing. It is the whole outcomes thing. I can understand it if you're, you know, your business model is based off of outcomes. You know what I mean? But you know, sometimes I think, isn't this what we've always been optimizing towards? Like whatever the KPI is of the brand, isn't that what we were always moving towards? Now I can understand that with AI there may be those models that become outcome focused, like hey, nor, give me $100,000 and I'm just making this up and I'm going to deliver 5,000 customers to your storefront. That's a business model perspective. But this whole focus on outcomes and maybe I'm missing something is in my view, isn't that what we've always been working toward, you know, with digital advertising is getting to the outcome that is communicated from the brand or the agency.
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C
I think that for a long time that was the case especially with traditional media and maybe earlier stages digital media. But eventually the promise was that when you switch over to programmatic or other things that can really say you put an X number of dollars, we can guarantee through the same medium that you're going to get X campaign based outcome. And then there's been this long standing obsession around that. So it does feel like we're going back to something that is at the core of what advertising is. At least that's, that's how I see it.
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D
And look, I think that if, if at the end of the day everyone's focusing on outcomes, that's what all partners should be delivering for the brands and agencies that they work for. Like you should be hitting whatever is success for that campaign. So, you know, maybe it's just that my mindset has always been there, you know, but I, I do think it's interesting how our industry sometimes gets real focused on, you know, a new word and you know, and that's what everyone talks about for better or for worse.
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So we'll double click on that.
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What metrics or KPIs do you recommend brands track to assess the success of a responsible media campaign or a values based campaign?
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D
Well, I think that where we're seeing success is that we align that donation trigger with whatever the KPI is. Right. And so if someone's looking for higher video completes, then hey, watch this video and we will make a donation. If somebody is, you know, looking for visitation into their restaurant. Click this Maps link and we're going to make a donation to a charity because it's like leading to the end result that the brand has communicated as their primary KPI. And so I don't know that there's a cookie cutter answer to that. From our perspective, we tend to partner with the brand to go, okay, this is what success is for your campaign. Here's the creative formats that we would recommend that's actually going to achieve that KPI or that outcome. And so it really depends on what the brand is telling us and then what ad units or formats that we then recommend to them. So long story longer, it can be, it can be flexible based on whatever the campaign goal is.
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B
Do you think that there are any misconceptions about the ROI of a purpose driven advertising campaign?
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D
Oh yeah. Like I think that I've talked to so many marketers that from the cause marketing lens will say, I will never publicly say this, but the reason why cause marketing is the first to get cut is because it's never really been able to show what it does to drive roi. And that is why we really go out and try to educate brands and agencies to say, we listen, there's a better way to do this if you still want to run the cause marketing campaign. Okay, but if you marry this strategy to speak to the consumer to get them to know, hey, I really am considering buying from this product and oh guess what, they support who I am as a human, that is only a bigger incentive. We actually had a CPG brand tell us and I thought it was so fascinating that they said we're seeing that when people see your ad creative that there's this halo effect that they feel an accountability at the shelf to go and buy the product? Because you've had a, not only a product conversation through the ad creative with the consumer, but you've had a personal conversation too. And so I find that, you know, these values based approaches is actually approaching two different strategies in one solution.
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B
So you've, you've just been describing some of what some of your clients they've been taking away. And Ghibsli has been around now for seven years.
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D
Can you believe that?
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B
Seven years, right. The time has flown by that Ghibsly has been around. So there's no question that you've noticed some patterns as far as the types of brands that have chosen to lean in and invest. Are there any commonalities as far as how you would personify or describe who is really prioritizing, leaning in and Investing in responsible or, you know, cause based, purpose driven media.
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D
Yeah, we've seen very quick acceleration from CPG and then restaurant retail. What's interesting about the research though, we asked us consumers, where are values the most important to you? And we broke it down by category because like I said, Noor, I'm not naive enough to know that, you know, price and quality are also going to come into play here and in some cases be the primary. But there were some really interesting verticals that, that rose to the top when it said that values is the most important signal when selecting a brand to buy from. And it was, you know, pharma, it was finance, it was travel, it was verticals like that. And they definitely over indexed for multicultural audiences. Where you see historical systemic racism, you know, in that buyer journey, you know, when you think about what you experience for the finance category or for the health care category. And so pharma has actually started to accelerate extremely quickly. Where we're having a lot of conversations with very large brands where they're saying, you know, what for this drug, that's cancer research. Why wouldn't we want to support a cancer nonprofit when people do some sort of action with our ads? And so it's been really interesting to see that approach take shape and take shape at the acceleration that we have seen in the last three to four months.
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B
That takes time. Right. Even though what you described it seems so maybe obvious for a category that hasn't previously considered the importance of values driven advertising or campaigns, it may seem the opposite, that they don't know how they're supposed to take advantage of it because they haven't seen their category historically lean in. Are there any categories that you feel are missing from the conversation or are slower to adopt?
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D
Well, look, and this I think has a lot of macroeconomic trends at the moment. When I say this, you'll probably be like, yeah, you know, makes sense. You know, the auto category I think at this point is just trying to figure out, you know, everything going on with the tariff situation. And so I would say that, you know, that one definitely comes to mind when it goes to, I don't even say laggard, to be honest. It's not that we're not even having the conversations we are, but I think it's more of a situation where if you're trying to, you know, figure out what tariffs is going to do to the cost of your vehicle, are you having the bandwidth for someone to come in with this strategy that you really haven't thought about? And so I would Say, out of all the verticals, that's probably been the one that we are having a lot of conversations. But I think some of the macroeconomic trends that are happening right now is really hindering the ability to innovate and kind of think in this lens that
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economic trend perspective, impossible to ignore that it's interesting thinking about the auto category, I can see so much synergy for like a tier one auto that's family oriented. It seems so obvious to create some cause based campaigns. I don't know exactly what those would be, but feel like you're on the precipice of uncovering it after some of these other things that will eventually shake out, in fact do shake out well.
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D
And think about even tier 2, like all these localized dealerships that they have, their community nonprofits that they support, and the ability to localize the relevancy of the nonprofit and the creative based on where that dealership sits. I think there's so much opportunity there. But I think like I said, those macroeconomic trends need to really settle a little bit so that people can actually focus on more strategic things.
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C
One more thing to speak to along the lines of trends. I want to talk about the evolution and the emergence of new technologies. Do you see these evolutions making digital media more responsible and more impactful and leaning towards prioritizing what you all are doing, or is there some sort of synergy or correlation?
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D
I mean, I think that there's certain verticals or, you know, industries or types of media that still have a long way to be responsible, especially with misinformation and responsibility there. You and I have had some of these conversations, right? And so when I think about artificial intelligence and the exciting things that that can do, but how quickly it is moving and the fact that we've had certain platforms around for 10, 15 years and there still, in my view, isn't the same level of regulation that you get with a TV commercial and they reach more people, which does not make sense to me that there are those situations where I am concerned by some of those really popular verticals where either there's a lack of understanding in how they work or in the case of AI, you know, it's a situation where it is moving so fast and there is such rapid adoption. The responsible approach to that is kind of taking a backseat for some. And so that is, you know, it's concerning. If it takes the same approach of what we've seen over the last 10 to 15 years with the development of media and media solutions in our industry,
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C
that's One more thing, as far as the dust eventually settling, not that the dust is going to settle quickly as it relates to the adoption of AI, but there's just so much change that is happening so rapidly and subconsciously for consumers and there's so much money to be made from big tech players who probably aren't prioritizing responsible media to the same extent that they are making money now on where AI is headed. It's just, it's a kind of complicated waters to navigate well and even beyond
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D
the products that you're building, it's the company you're building. There's so many solutions coming out to really automate a lot of very tedious tasks that, you know, my company, we're all type A personalities and we start, you know, our next year planning in July and August. We've already started to come of think about like what will next year look like? And a big part of our discussion is okay, where can we utilize AI on the back end piece to streamline things and be more efficient? Where we might have hired a human and then where are we going to hire humans? And how do we make sure that we don't feed into a future that is hard for people to find employment? And I mean, let's be honest, you know, you see all these examples of these tasks that were probably handled by entry level positions and it really, I think there is a conversation to be had of what is the future for people coming into our industry and how do they get that experience and how do they develop in this world of AI if they don't already have that expertise? Like anytime the people, you know, ask me that are in college or in high school, you know, that I know, like what should I do? I'm like, be an engineer, be a data scientist, focus on AI. Because if you don't, you may not be relevant in this future workforce. And I think that there's a real conversation to be had around walking that balance of making sure we take care of the actual humans in our society while also building profitable businesses. And I don't know the answer to that, but it's something that we're discussing on a daily basis at this point.
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C
Questions that have to be asked that we don't have fast answers for for sure. Some practical advice and some thoughts from you on implementation. For brands that are just starting to explore responsible media or values driven advertising, what first steps do you recommend?
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D
Know your values. It's really funny, the A and a, you know, marketer word of the year in 2018 was purpose again it kind of goes back to the words of KPI outcome. All these things, right? Like purpose. Good. You know, I've been very public in saying, I think some of those words have gotten a bad rap, even though they shouldn't have. Like, they don't feel tangible. That's why we talk a lot about values is because everybody has values. I have values right now, and that's the same for purpose. But I, again, it's kind of going back to the fact that I think it's gotten this fluffy reputation. But values is always with us, and values doesn't have to default to the two controversial topics that our industry tends to talk about the most, DEI and sustainability. Right. Even though sustainability isn't as controversial. I think most people now realize climate change is very real. But, you know, from that standpoint, I think it's also, you know, making brands understand that there are other ways to showcase values that aren't those controversial things. You know what I mean? Animal welfare is a value. Healthy eating and nutrition and wellness is a value. And a lot of these brands need to be thinking more broadly. It's not. And again, let me be very clear. It's not that I don't want them focusing on minority groups or sustainability or anything like that, but it isn't the only thing that should be in their values tool set. And so I think that it's knowing their values and then really understanding that it doesn't have to be these default controversial things that people tend to be afraid of, that it can be very broad things that most people can agree upon. I mean, if you saw a brand supporting childhood cancer, are you really going to get mad about that, you know, or is there going to be some sort of backlash? I would think probably not, unless there are just some very tangible examples, examples of something that that company has done to completely contradict that. Most consumers can get behind values like that and go, oh, yeah, like we want to cure cancer. Like, who doesn't? It's impacted all of us. So I think it's knowing the values and expanding your idea of what those values can be.
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C
I love that you brought up the word purpose just to take a moment and speak to that in a little bit more detail. And I know we've talked about this across the course of our conversation so far, but I think that there's also people who will hear the word purpose and say, me as a. Let's say you're talking to a media buyer, somebody who's responsible very specifically for campaign performance in the traditional sense, and they'll say at the end of the day. The quiet part that I don't want to say out loud is that my purpose is to sell knickknacks. My purpose is to get lead gen. And some of this, as much as it may have some strategic purpose in a broader sense, I'm not responsible for that. I have to ignore some of this part of the conversation. How does that change the way that you navigate these conversations? Knowing that if you played in another part of ad tech or digital media, it would probably be a little bit easier to go to somebody who's a little bit more hands on keyboard and get their immediate buy in.
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D
Really great question. I would say to those people, your purpose and this industry's purpose is to influence behavior and you are thinking too narrowly. We are an industry built on influencing people to do things. I've said this for seven years. It has never made sense to me why so many people in our industry go, I work in advertising. It's not like what I do cures cancer. We literally drive commerce to all of these retailers out of advertising and out of the messages that we guide these retailers to put out there for people to see. And so I would say to those people that say my purpose is to, you know, run a 32nd pre roll. You are thinking way too small because this industry was built to influence behavior and that influence can be used to make our society better, to make people understand what your brand stands for. That is the purpose of everyone in this industry.
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C
What are some common pitfalls for brands or rather pitfalls that brands should avoid when trying to integrate purpose into their advertising? So we're ready to do it, but we want to avoid doing some things that make what we do not come across as it should.
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D
It is to be thoughtful but not overthink too. Sometimes I feel like these brands are so terrified of some sort of backlash or saying the wrong thing. That's where it goes back to really knowing who you are and saying, okay, if there is backlash. This is core to who we are. And I'm okay, like I can't make everyone happy. And look, you're going to get caught up in the social media funnel of negativity, you know, where who even knows if it's a human sitting behind the comment that is being put in the comment field that's going to try to tear people apart. I mean that's what some parts of the industry is really focused on is like how can we tear each other down for better or for worse. And so I think that what brands have to do is to say, okay, there are some real key things. Let's just take cpg, for example. Cpg, food insecurity, the way their products are made, you know what I mean? Making sure that it's ethical, like ingredients or whatever, you know what I mean? That there's a health lens to it. There's so many things that most people would not be upset about. It's putting that thought into it to say, okay, what value makes the most sense for what I do as a, as a company? But then also not just sitting back and going, okay, what if these 17,000 things happen that could negatively impact, guess what, some of them probably are. But at the end of the day, if you are so true in knowing who you are, you're going to be able to navigate that. And yeah, you may lose a small percentage of customers, but look at what happened with Costco. They gained a lot of customers because they stood their ground. And so I think that more brands, again, they need to pay attention to the signal and not the noise. And if you pay attention to the signal, all the signals back up the fact that this is what consumers are looking for.
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C
I'll end on this question, Chad. Do you have any words of wisdom for advertising leaders or people in charge of media investments who want to make a positive impact but maybe haven't made that full commitment in the way that they could by contributing to values based advertising or responsible media?
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D
Yeah, I would say there's a lot of solutions out there to help, you know, help you do this in a very easy way that will actually drive better performance of your campaigns and better performance of even, you know, as I was talking about the events side of our business where you're going to connect with people and humans. There are so many solutions out there. You just have to like go, okay, maybe there's a better way to do this. This $250,000 cause marketing budget could actually be combined with this product campaign and I could be more efficient with my dollars. I could get better performance and guess what? I could sell more of the product. What brand, especially in a downturn economy where every dollar counts, isn't looking for solutions like that. So it's not even about finding a solution to be more efficient, but also acknowledging that, look, this is where consumers are going and it's all consumers. That was very clear in the research. 27% of Americans said that they are thinking about values more today than they were in 2020. Everyone says to me all the time, they're always like, oh, you know, 2020 with George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. That was the moment. No, that was the preview. That was the preview. We were all sitting in our homes, we were isolated. There was nothing to do but watch the tv. And all these things that had always been happening were much more in our face to make us enraged or concerned, whatever the adjective. But I think that it is knowing that this is here and this is the way consumers want brands to act and they want to engage. They want to say, I'm going to give you money, but I expect you to support who I am as a human being. And that is only going to become more and more of a focus with younger consumers.
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C
Yeah, agreed. Maybe for consumers overall. Conscientious consumers. Right. Knowing even if it is on the subconscious level that we are acting that out truthfully with our dollars and that that is going to impact brands in perpetuity. Definitely in the immediate future and the future of the next few years. So, Chad, I have to say you are in a category that I would describe is it's not a red ocean, it's blue ocean. You're not overly crowded. There aren't like 150 competitors for GHBSLY at this moment. And that's because it's a challenging market to navigate, especially as we continue to be in these relatively early days for cause based, values based and responsible media. So I plan to check back in and see how things are going in the future.
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B
And I really appreciate the time.
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D
I appreciate it too. I've always respected you north. So I appreciate you the invite to come and have the conversation.
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A
Thanks again to Chad Hickey, CEO and founder of Ghibsly, for joining us and digging into what it truly takes to make responsible media a measurable part of modern advertising. There are opportunities for advertisers to ensure that purpose and performance move in the same direction and brands can use their media spend to create real world impact. Chad's company is one of a handful of organizations that's leading the charge by helping advertisers turn ad dollars into positive change. If you enjoyed this episode and want more unfiltered conversations about where adtech is headed next, be sure to follow or subscribe to AdTech Unfiltered. More insight and candid conversation coming your way. I'm Noor Nasser. We'll see you next.