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[00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey, this is Noor Nasir for AT Tech Unfelter marketing has always been about reaching consumers. Today, the harder challenge is staying close to them. As audiences fragment across platforms and expectations for brands continue to evolve, community is becoming just as important as media strategy. In this episode, Lori Lam, chief brand officer at Elf Beauty, explains how the company has built what it calls zero distance with consumers and how that philosophy influences everything from platform strategy and paid media to unlikely brand partnerships and product innovation. Let's dive into this episode with Lori now.
[00:43]
B
Well, Lori, thanks for joining me here.
[00:45]
C
Thank you for having me this morning.
[00:47]
B
I'm excited to talk about the beauty category, especially things that are happening at E L F Beauty. I'll get things kicked off asking you the classic question. Can you share in 30 seconds. What's the summary description for what E L F Beauty is?
[01:00]
C
E L F Beauty is a multi branded global portfolio that includes our Nape St brands, which you probably know, E L F Cosmetics and Elf Skin. And we are really anchored on this premise of democratizing access and making it accessible to every eye, lip and face.
[01:14]
B
So you specifically are the chief brand officer. Tell me a little bit more about that. And most organizations have a chief marketing officer. Not all of them have the luxury of also having a chief brand officer. Can you just distinguish the separation of what you do as a, we'll call it CBO versus a cmo?
[01:32]
C
I think one of the ways I look at it is your CMO a very important role in critical in shaping the direction of the company. But also, I have to say, important, critical role in actually what it creates a magnetic pull with the community, your consumer, maybe someone who's not a consumer, attracting them in and actually keeping them in your orbit and with your brand. Right. Whether it's a product, a service that you're bringing to them, a chief brand officer has an important, equally important role in actually creating what it feels like for a community or consumer once they're in. Right. It's important for me to make you understand what this brand is about, what it feels like. And it's more of a heart for me.
[02:12]
B
You've been in the beauty category for, I'm not going to say a super long time, but a, you know, you have a lot of experience in the beauty category. I know you originally were with l'. Oreal. Yes. Now you've been at Elf for about four years.
[02:23]
C
Four years.
[02:24]
B
Now I want to learn more about what you just said as far as the different ways to interact with your audience. Audiences have changed dramatically, especially in the last 10 years, the last five years, a lot of transformation. Your audience or prospect of audience could be reading Reddit forums, they're looking at TikToks, they're looking at every type of vertical video. They're not just going to your website, they're not just looking at a variety of publisher takes or ads. So if you can tell me how you have molded and, or adjusted yourself to align with this renaissance of the way that people are approaching your brand and just beauty in general.
[03:01]
C
Well, one of the things that we actually pride ourselves on at Elf, and I would say every single ELF employee is super proud of, is creating this idea of zero distance. Zero distance between our community, zero distance between our C suite, zero distance between what we have to say in the behind the curtains look at Elf. So when I think about all of these platforms that you mentioned, it oftentimes
[03:21]
B
feels like, oh, Elf, what are you
[03:22]
C
doing in this room with us? And our community will respond in that way. And what I love about that is that because we created this idea of zero distance with our community, we are authentically where our community is, whatever platform it be. So, for example, elf is often quoted as a pioneer on TikTok, which we were, you know, we didn't wait. And our then president or then CMO actually was like, didn't wait for the data to point her in that direction. She just knew that's where our community was. And so it was almost like we had to be there with them. Right? In a very authentic way, in a very organic way. Same thing happened to us on Twitch when we went on in 2021. It wasn't necessarily. It was a growing platform for sure, but it was really this idea and notion that if our community is there, we should lean in, we should have conversations with them. Same thing happened for us when we went on Roblox in 2023. We were actually requesting. Our community was requesting and demanding us to be on the platform with them and which is what took us there. So when you mention this idea of these platforms and it's changing so rapidly, I think, I think when you have your ear to the ground and you lean in and you tune the elephant, what we like to say to what your community is being, you're actually able to move with them into these new spaces and places.
[04:30]
B
You just mentioned Roadblocks and some of your other partnerships, and I want to talk more about that. These aren't just partnerships. Some might say they, at least at the forefront, seem like unusual partnerships. You've also partnered with nascar, Chipotle very notably for myself, Liquid Death and the way that they shake out, really whimsical. It's fun, it's quirky, but on the onset it can seem like very strange to people. Like, why would you possibly choose those brands? How do you make sure that you're setting yourself up for success when you're picking, let's call them a non traditional part, right?
[05:05]
C
I love what you just said because it's not the strange part, but I think it's the unexpected part from what I get from your question. Because part of it is that this ability for us to really always be there to surprise our community.
[05:16]
B
Right.
[05:16]
C
And to delight them and to actually realize that some things that they have in worlds, you can be an elf beauty consumer, but you could also like Liquid Definite. You can also believe death to plastic and not having that in your fridge or not having that when you're drinking water. The point of where we can live in these two different worlds and we are speaking to these different subcultures. But what I love about what we do so well is that we do bring in the disruptive, we do bring in this imaginative world that you couldn't see happening. But it's where cultural relevance and emotional resonance are meeting. And that's where we emerge. When we think about some of these partnerships, we are kindred spirits. We actually do recognize we move at the speed of culture. We are there to do bold and disruptive things. We are there for community. And when you come together, some of these amazing alliances and the meeting of the minds come together to surprise our community.
[06:02]
B
It's fun to watch, especially really as a person who's just consuming media and seeing how it comes together. I guess I'll ask you one follow up question along those lines. What does that creative process look like? And as a person who's at the helm of overseeing brand work, what role do you play when you're doing that decision making?
[06:20]
C
Oh my God, it's so much fun. One of the, for example, if I think about a partnership that we just had this year was with H and M, it's a global powerhouse and it's actually global fashion icon. But if you look at the core of what they do, they actually democratize access to fashion through sustainability through, you know, something that is very elevated. When we partnered with them, we took our holy grails and we actually reinvented them. So Power Grip, Halo, Glow Camel. Three of our holy grails in our portfolio and we actually reimagined what that can smell like, what could feel like, what would it be if I'm carrying it? And when we got in the room with H and M and our partners and we flew over to their offices, we brought that world together. So the process is really this notion of how can we do something that we wouldn't have been able to do without you as a partner and you couldn't have done it without ELF as a partner. And that process means that you really have to trust each other, but you also have a lot of creativity on the table and you're saying to yourself, there's nothing that you couldn't do and actually anything is ELF impossible. And if you put the meeting of the minds together, what can you actually create that goes beyond the boundaries of what our community can expect from us?
[07:27]
B
So clearly you're doing a lot of, I'd say, like pioneering type work in your category. I'm curious, there's gotta be things that you've seen from whether it's legacy brands or just other brands out there that are maybe old hats. Is there anything that you historically have had as part of your arsenal that you've kind of done away with because it's just so outside of the realm of the very non traditional way that you approach marketing and brand work at E L F Beauty.
[07:56]
C
I actually don't think there's anything we've done away with. I actually think there's things that we probably didn't put the right amount of weight on or maybe that actually I see as brands tend to get overvalued and that's SEO, you know, especially the game now. You know, when you think about SEO, much of it was like, oh, I just want to be discovered. Right? I want to be searched, I want to be found. Now realizing that it not only impacts your ranking, but it impacts your credibility and your ability to actually AI optimize, if you will, and find your community in the ways that they're looking for brands or they're looking for experiences or looking to do something different. And I think that's actually over. So it's not something that I think we've abandoned, but actually thought about how to look at it through a different lens.
[08:36]
B
Yeah, there's been so many occasions where if you ask anybody who works for any agency, this is the end all, be all question, which is let's just heavy up into SEO. But there's a lot of brand work that needs to be done to make sure that you're fueling in and making the most out of SEO. So, yeah, it's a good, good proof Points for people to be thinking about. Also, as an experienced marketer, I have to ask you about the flip side, which is that you are taking these, making these non traditional choice and you have your way of going about it, but still there's risk and with risk there's a reward and with risk there's also sometimes more risk. What is that process looking like on your end when sometimes your community, of course you celebrate when your community celebrates and that they're pleasantly surprised and delighted. But on the flip side with that, did you call it 0 distance?
[09:24]
C
0 distance.
[09:25]
B
With 0 distance, they're gonna tell you the flip side too, which is I'm disappointed. I was looking for something different.
[09:30]
A
That's right.
[09:30]
B
So what does the reception process look for you all? You are trying to receive that feedback and thinking what it is that you're going to do next.
[09:37]
C
Our community isn't shy. They're not shy in one demanding what they want from us. And oftentimes they will say, you know, if you open up one of our social posts, we'll be talking about this amazing melting lip balm and they're like, but I want this. And so they start using almost social as a, as a walkie talkie to actually share with us what they're thinking and what they want to see from us and what they're demanding in many ways. Sometimes you get capital letters, I want bronzing drops. And that was a piece that actually happened in our history where our CEO went on live stream and our community was asking for bronzing drops and he actually had to go come out of that and walk down the aisle to our product development room and actually ask them to accelerate it. So there's the demand part. So our community lets us know that. But they also tell us when something is working and we usually see those signals within the first few posts of a launch. We'll actually know how our community is responding, how they're liking it. For example, we just launched Elfhair and it was a six piece collection that we launched for our community and instantly they told us what they loved about it. The smell, the price points. And you're really getting those in moments when we do something and we actually realize we've outset our community. A great example is we've undervalued the power of a pickle. What I mean by that is we created this amazing lip balm that was pickle flavored. It was actually a sheer tint, but for pickle lovers it was really admired and we sold out in less than 14 minutes and our community was not happy about that. Stay tuned. There might be something coming back for them, but that was an interesting aspect of how you actually know how your community is responding to them just by watching and listening to the signals that they're giving you.
[11:10]
B
Well, I also need to ask, because the show is called Ad Tech Unfiltered, I'm curious about the impact and the thought process of taking your brand and having it have application in the digital paid media world. What does the processing and the looking at digital paid media look like for altbeat?
[11:27]
C
Yeah, such a critical piece of our marketing engine, I would say for us, you know, digital paid media, not different from other brands, but it's really critical for us to think about the audiences that we're reaching with it. Right. And how you actually are speaking to that audience. Where are you going to find them? So, for example, when we actually went in and partnered with Katherine Legg, who is an Indy 500 for, we actually worked with her for Indy 500 two years ago, continued to partner with her. You know, we were like, there's an entire audience of race car drivers and actually girls who are going to the race car families that are actually going to the Indy 500 that have never been spoken to. And when you think about that in the realm of paid media, it's like, how are we actually reaching them both organically, but also how are you making sure that what you're doing out there is actually getting the right reach and
[12:13]
B
landing a question that I think a lot of people who are knocking down your door want to know about, which is everybody wants to work with Elf Beauty and a lot of people don't know what you need and they may not know where they could possibly sit in your process. When advertising solution providers are trying to talk to you or your cmo, what advice would you give to them as far as how to approach you in a way that is actually going to deliver value for you and off beauty?
[12:39]
C
Yeah, I think one of those things is what we like to do is always to work on the unexpected. And one of the things I always like to say to partners is whether it's an agency partner or what have you, is let's do something together that you haven't done either. You know, we're always the first ones to say, like, hey, we'll beta test something with you. I think that we love to work on. Pioneering is a word that you brought up. What can we actually do together to forge a new path? What can we actually test out together? And I think that's one of the things that would really get our pique, our interest. When we like to work with our community, it's always about how can we create something that they never saw coming but there's an ELF twist to it. Personality is something that we really went on as a brand and we want to continue to build on that.
[13:19]
B
I talk about this all the time because I my specific role is focused on examining innovation. So I have similar questions for any number of brands that we work with. And the challenge I constantly put to them is it's your job to bring something interesting to me, not the other way around. I'm like, I can't do all the legwork. I've got other things to do. Like you, you do the work and then like talk to me about it on the, on the other side. And you know, for a woman and a team as busy as where you're seated, that responsibility definitely falls to those partners. That makes a lot of sense. I've just got a couple of wrap up questions for you.
[13:52]
C
Sure.
[13:52]
B
One of them being about the future of beauty and what you've been observing. What's changing in the beauty catego that you've really taken note of.
[14:01]
C
I think how quickly trends are picking up and I think the intergenerational use of makeup and who's actually influencing your skincare routine. You know, I was certainly coming of the age where I was influenced by my mom's Pons routine. Right. I was like watching her in the bathroom and putting her in makeup and washing her face and then doing what she needed to do as part of her routine as a working parent. I think nowadays it's almost reversed. Right. So I have two Alpha girls. I'm almost watching them, you know, walk into Ulta, walk into Sephora, walk into Target and seeing what are the gravitating towards. So it's really interesting. I think that's a really big piece that has shifted in the beauty world. The influences that are coming from Gen Z and Gen Alpha have been really prominent. An intergenerational sharing of the love. And I think that's where Elf really wins because we have multi generational appeal and we've continued to win with Alphas, Gen X, Gen Z, millennials and seeing that broad distribution, everyone loves it.
[14:53]
B
I was just talking to a colleague earlier about there are younger and younger consumers that are much more educated about the beau they are and they're looking for not just brands but very specific products from those brands even. Yes. And it's just, it's a very different world. And that is something that I imagine E L F Beauty and other brands that are receiving that younger consumer. Really, they have to have an awareness around.
[15:18]
C
Yeah, absolutely.
[15:19]
B
And then a follow up question and this wasn't in my original list so I'm just throwing this out there and we'll see how you feel about it. I was talking to one of my colleagues named John Hyland and he said, you need to talk to Lori and ask her about Devil Wears Prada and I'll share the context in which he meant it. I don't know if you watched the movie. I haven't. But he said that a big component of the film is that there is this big transition in the beauty category or just for brands that historically needed to be in the pages of Vogue or needed to be in the pages of. If they're no longer in the pages on the. On publications, on publisher sites. Because that was absolutely essential for the promotion of those brands. I'm curious, you know, especially again we talked earlier about how the. You guys are a revolutionary brand. You have non traditional ways in which you've gone about it. Really. You've maybe graduated away from a lot of that. But I think about accessible brands and historically they needed to be in beauty pages. Curious. To what extent is that something that is relevant or important for Elf Beauty to be in the pages of like these, you know, the old guard publications?
[16:22]
C
I think it ultimately becomes a question. It kind of goes back to when we think about the platform, be where your community is. And if we find that our community is giving us signals that they are reading print publications or if they're more offline. Right. Or they're more online or if they're online and they're on platforms or if social selling is something that they're really interested in and they want to have more conversations there. I think leaning into that and finding those signals is probably the biggest cue on it. So if that's something that we're seeing from our community, we will in a new one away. I don't think print is dead. I think it still has. It holds a lot of value. And I think it also has another nostalgia element for some of us. I love flipping through a magazine and discovering new things.
[17:01]
B
Yeah. And then final question for you. Sure. A lot of people want to work in the beauty space when they think about marketing. Beauty is an exciting category. What advice do you have for young marketers or marketers who are curious to work in the beauty space? Do you have any advice for them? Don't hesitate.
[17:17]
C
Step Right in. Right. Beauty is very trend driven, but also very fast paced. I do believe that the marketing here is we tend to be very innovative and we're trying new things and experimenting. And I would say for anyone who is looking to get into the beauty industry, you know, when I think about even my own entry, I started entry level. Coming into beauty industry, I was willing to. And I was at l' Oreal and I had a very beautiful career there, nearly two decades. But I came in entry level because I knew I was willing to learn and I had a curiosity about learning. So my advice would say apply that curiosity and go for it.
[17:50]
B
I love that. I do think tap into it. It's tricky. I mean, in today's landscape, there are so many inventive young people who are thinking of really creative ways to appeal to jumping in at the bottom rungs of the ladder.
[18:02]
C
Oh, yeah.
[18:03]
B
I think, if anything, you know, even our discussion informs the way that maybe a young marketer needs to appeal to a brand like Elf.
[18:10]
C
I have a great story because I have someone who's now on my team. She started as an intern, now she's a coordinator. But how she became our intern was very interesting because what she did was she created a TikTok video while she was walking in to drop an application and she was actually dropping off her resume at the office. And it got noticed that she came into our office and was bringing her resume. And next thing you know, our recruitment team called her back in and she had an interview and it just showed that she was willing to break the mold and it was disruptive. But she also was very much showing us what Gen Z is doing differently in terms of getting noticed.
[18:44]
B
Yeah, yeah. I'm walking away from this conversation just recognizing that creativity is mandatory and creativity is always evolving. 100 that is something that you're really on top of you and the much larger team at Ultra Beauty. So we're excited to see what happens next. I'll be keeping my ears.
[19:01]
C
Oh, thank you.
[19:02]
B
And I appreciate the time today.
[19:03]
C
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
[19:05]
A
My thanks to Lori Lam, Chief Brand Officer at E L F Beauty, for this discussion on why community has become a competitive advantage, how brands can earn cultural relevance, and why experimentation is becoming a core marketing discipline. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe wherever you get podcasts and please do join us for a bunch of new episodes, both brand related and adtech related, in upcoming weeks. I'm Noord Nasir. More adtech unfiltered Real soon.

Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: Adtech Unfiltered

Episode Title: Inside e.l.f.'s Approach to Culture & Community (with Laurie Lam)
Host: Noor Naseer
Guest: Laurie Lam, Chief Brand Officer, e.l.f. Beauty
Date: August 4, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores how e.l.f. Beauty creates “zero distance” between its brand and community—a philosophy deeply influencing their media strategy, brand partnerships, and product development. Laurie Lam, Chief Brand Officer at e.l.f. Beauty, details how staying culturally relevant and experimenting boldly has propelled e.l.f. as a disruptor in beauty, making it one of the most community-centric brands in the category.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Role of Chief Brand Officer vs. Chief Marketing Officer

Distinction of Roles:
- Laurie Lam explains that while the CMO shapes the direction and “magnetic pull” of the brand, the CBO focuses on what the brand feels like once consumers are “in the orbit.” The CBO is “more of a heart for me.”
- Quote:
  
  "A chief brand officer has an important, equally important role in actually creating what it feels like for a community or consumer once they're in... It's more of a heart for me." – Laurie Lam [02:11]

2. Staying Aligned With Fragmented Audiences

Zero Distance Philosophy:
- e.l.f. strives for “zero distance” between the brand and its consumers, company leadership, and even its internal teams.
- e.l.f. is proactive in joining emerging platforms like TikTok, Twitch (2021), and Roblox (2023), often at the urging of their community.
- Their approach is to anticipate and meet consumers wherever they are, not just to follow data but to actively listen and engage.
- Quote:
  
  "Because we created this idea of zero distance with our community, we are authentically where our community is, whatever platform it be." – Laurie Lam [03:21]

3. Partnerships: The Unexpected as a Strategy

Surprise and Delight:
- e.l.f. is known for unexpected, sometimes whimsical partnerships—NASCAR, Chipotle, Liquid Death—all driven by overlapping subcultures and shared brand values.
- Core to these collaborations is “surprising” and “delighting” the community, going where cultural resonance and emotional connection meet.
- Quote:
  
  "We do bring in the disruptive, we do bring in this imaginative world that you couldn't see happening. But it's where cultural relevance and emotional resonance are meeting." – Laurie Lam [05:16]
Creative Collaboration:
- Each partnership is considered an opportunity to create something that couldn’t exist without both parties.
- Example: The global partnership with H&M, where e.l.f.'s “holy grail” products were reimagined with H&M’s sustainability touch.
- Quote:
  
  "How can we do something that we wouldn't have been able to do without you as a partner and you couldn't have done it without ELF as a partner?... Anything is ELF possible." – Laurie Lam [06:19]

4. Evolving Approaches to Brand Building and SEO

Nothing Discarded, Just Reinvented:
- Traditional tactics aren’t abandoned but reexamined—especially SEO, which e.l.f. approaches with renewed value as it influences not just discovery, but credibility and AI-optimization.
- Quote:
  
  "It's not something that I think we've abandoned, but actually thought about how to look at it through a different lens." – Laurie Lam [07:55]

5. Managing Community Feedback in Real Time

Real-Time Pulse:
- e.l.f.’s community uses social channels as a “walkie talkie,” providing demands, critiques, and immediate reactions to new launches.
- This dialogue can lead to agile shifts—like accelerating a product's development after community demand on a CEO livestream, or realizing a product sold out too fast (e.g., pickle-flavored lip balm).
- Quote:
  
  "Our community lets us know ... they start using almost social as a, as a walkie talkie to actually share with us what they're thinking and what they want to see from us and what they're demanding in many ways." – Laurie Lam [09:36]

6. The Role of Paid Digital Media

Purposeful Targeting:
- Paid digital media remains critical, but placement and messaging are guided by where the audience actually is—sometimes recognizing untapped segments, like female racing fans at the Indy 500.
- Quote:
  
  "It's really critical for us to think about the audiences that we're reaching with it… how are you making sure that what you're doing out there is actually getting the right reach." – Laurie Lam [11:26]

7. Advice to Advertising Solution Providers

Offer the Unexpected:
- e.l.f. values bold, innovative ideas from partners, not cookie-cutter solutions. They encourage partners to pitch never-before-done, pioneering approaches, and enjoy being “beta testers.”
- Quote:
  
  "We're always the first ones to say, like, hey, we'll beta test something with you... What can we actually do together to forge a new path?" – Laurie Lam [12:39]

8. Trends in the Beauty Category

Faster Trend Cycles & Intergenerational Influence:
- The influence dynamics have flipped: younger generations (Gen Z, Gen Alpha) now drive trends and buying behavior, sometimes even influencing their parents.
- e.l.f. benefits from broad appeal across generations.
- Quote:
  
  "The influences that are coming from Gen Z and Gen Alpha have been really prominent. An intergenerational sharing of the love." – Laurie Lam [14:00]

9. Legacy Media vs. New Media

Platform Agnosticism:
- e.l.f. does not dismiss print media but tracks where its community is active—offline, online, print, or social.
- Nostalgia and discovery still have a role, but audience signals dictate strategy.
- Quote:
  
  "I don't think print is dead. I think it still has … a nostalgia element for some of us. I love flipping through a magazine and discovering new things." – Laurie Lam [16:22]

10. Advice for Aspiring Beauty Marketers

Embrace Curiosity and Innovation:
- The beauty sector rewards those willing to start at entry level, experiment, and stay curious.
- Example: A team member was hired after filming a TikTok of herself delivering her resume, embodying the disruptive spirit e.l.f. seeks.
- Quote:
  
  "My advice would say: apply that curiosity and go for it." – Laurie Lam [17:16]
- Quote:
  
  "She created a TikTok video while she was walking in to drop an application and ... it just showed that she was willing to break the mold and it was disruptive." – Laurie Lam [18:10]

Memorable Moments and Quotes

"Zero distance between our community, zero distance between our C suite, zero distance between what we have to say..." – Laurie Lam [03:00]
"[Community feedback is] almost social as a walkie talkie to actually share with us what they're thinking..." – Laurie Lam [09:36]
“We've undervalued the power of a pickle … we sold out in less than 14 minutes and our community was not happy about that.” – Laurie Lam [10:44]
"Creativity is mandatory and creativity is always evolving." – Noor Naseer [18:43]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[01:00] – e.l.f. Beauty’s core mission: democratizing beauty for every “eye, lip, and face.”
[03:00] – The “zero distance” philosophy and proactive platform engagement.
[04:30] – The strategy behind unexpected partnerships.
[06:19] – How e.l.f. collaborates with partners for creative product innovation.
[09:36] – Real-time feedback from the e.l.f. community and product iteration.
[11:26] – Approaching digital paid media and reaching new audiences.
[12:39] – Advice for advertising partners: bring bold, pioneering ideas.
[14:00] – Shifts in beauty consumer trends: intergenerational influences.
[16:22] – The evolving role of legacy media and print in beauty marketing.
[17:16] – Advice for those entering beauty marketing, with a story on breaking into the industry with creativity.

Tone and Style

The episode is energetic, optimistic, and frequently humorous, with both host and guest emphasizing the joy and creativity that drives e.l.f.’s approach to marketing, community-building, and product innovation. Laurie Lam encourages risk-taking, disruption, and active listening, both for her team and for partners.

This summary preserves the spirit and core content of the conversation, offering clear insight and direct quotes for listeners or marketers seeking to understand what makes e.l.f. Beauty’s brand and community strategies both distinctive and effective.

Loading summary

Transcript50 lines

[00:00]
A
Foreign. Hey, this is Noor Nasir for AT Tech Unfelter marketing has always been about reaching consumers. Today, the harder challenge is staying close to them. As audiences fragment across platforms and expectations for brands continue to evolve, community is becoming just as important as media strategy. In this episode, Lori Lam, chief brand officer at Elf Beauty, explains how the company has built what it calls zero distance with consumers and how that philosophy influences everything from platform strategy and paid media to unlikely brand partnerships and product innovation. Let's dive into this episode with Lori now.
[00:43]
B
Well, Lori, thanks for joining me here.
[00:45]
C
Thank you for having me this morning.
[00:47]
B
I'm excited to talk about the beauty category, especially things that are happening at E L F Beauty. I'll get things kicked off asking you the classic question. Can you share in 30 seconds. What's the summary description for what E L F Beauty is?
[01:00]
C
E L F Beauty is a multi branded global portfolio that includes our Nape St brands, which you probably know, E L F Cosmetics and Elf Skin. And we are really anchored on this premise of democratizing access and making it accessible to every eye, lip and face.
[01:14]
B
So you specifically are the chief brand officer. Tell me a little bit more about that. And most organizations have a chief marketing officer. Not all of them have the luxury of also having a chief brand officer. Can you just distinguish the separation of what you do as a, we'll call it CBO versus a cmo?
[01:32]
C
I think one of the ways I look at it is your CMO a very important role in critical in shaping the direction of the company. But also, I have to say, important, critical role in actually what it creates a magnetic pull with the community, your consumer, maybe someone who's not a consumer, attracting them in and actually keeping them in your orbit and with your brand. Right. Whether it's a product, a service that you're bringing to them, a chief brand officer has an important, equally important role in actually creating what it feels like for a community or consumer once they're in. Right. It's important for me to make you understand what this brand is about, what it feels like. And it's more of a heart for me.
[02:12]
B
You've been in the beauty category for, I'm not going to say a super long time, but a, you know, you have a lot of experience in the beauty category. I know you originally were with l'. Oreal. Yes. Now you've been at Elf for about four years.
[02:23]
C
Four years.
[02:24]
B
Now I want to learn more about what you just said as far as the different ways to interact with your audience. Audiences have changed dramatically, especially in the last 10 years, the last five years, a lot of transformation. Your audience or prospect of audience could be reading Reddit forums, they're looking at TikToks, they're looking at every type of vertical video. They're not just going to your website, they're not just looking at a variety of publisher takes or ads. So if you can tell me how you have molded and, or adjusted yourself to align with this renaissance of the way that people are approaching your brand and just beauty in general.
[03:01]
C
Well, one of the things that we actually pride ourselves on at Elf, and I would say every single ELF employee is super proud of, is creating this idea of zero distance. Zero distance between our community, zero distance between our C suite, zero distance between what we have to say in the behind the curtains look at Elf. So when I think about all of these platforms that you mentioned, it oftentimes
[03:21]
B
feels like, oh, Elf, what are you
[03:22]
C
doing in this room with us? And our community will respond in that way. And what I love about that is that because we created this idea of zero distance with our community, we are authentically where our community is, whatever platform it be. So, for example, elf is often quoted as a pioneer on TikTok, which we were, you know, we didn't wait. And our then president or then CMO actually was like, didn't wait for the data to point her in that direction. She just knew that's where our community was. And so it was almost like we had to be there with them. Right? In a very authentic way, in a very organic way. Same thing happened to us on Twitch when we went on in 2021. It wasn't necessarily. It was a growing platform for sure, but it was really this idea and notion that if our community is there, we should lean in, we should have conversations with them. Same thing happened for us when we went on Roblox in 2023. We were actually requesting. Our community was requesting and demanding us to be on the platform with them and which is what took us there. So when you mention this idea of these platforms and it's changing so rapidly, I think, I think when you have your ear to the ground and you lean in and you tune the elephant, what we like to say to what your community is being, you're actually able to move with them into these new spaces and places.
[04:30]
B
You just mentioned Roadblocks and some of your other partnerships, and I want to talk more about that. These aren't just partnerships. Some might say they, at least at the forefront, seem like unusual partnerships. You've also partnered with nascar, Chipotle very notably for myself, Liquid Death and the way that they shake out, really whimsical. It's fun, it's quirky, but on the onset it can seem like very strange to people. Like, why would you possibly choose those brands? How do you make sure that you're setting yourself up for success when you're picking, let's call them a non traditional part, right?
[05:05]
C
I love what you just said because it's not the strange part, but I think it's the unexpected part from what I get from your question. Because part of it is that this ability for us to really always be there to surprise our community.
[05:16]
B
Right.
[05:16]
C
And to delight them and to actually realize that some things that they have in worlds, you can be an elf beauty consumer, but you could also like Liquid Definite. You can also believe death to plastic and not having that in your fridge or not having that when you're drinking water. The point of where we can live in these two different worlds and we are speaking to these different subcultures. But what I love about what we do so well is that we do bring in the disruptive, we do bring in this imaginative world that you couldn't see happening. But it's where cultural relevance and emotional resonance are meeting. And that's where we emerge. When we think about some of these partnerships, we are kindred spirits. We actually do recognize we move at the speed of culture. We are there to do bold and disruptive things. We are there for community. And when you come together, some of these amazing alliances and the meeting of the minds come together to surprise our community.
[06:02]
B
It's fun to watch, especially really as a person who's just consuming media and seeing how it comes together. I guess I'll ask you one follow up question along those lines. What does that creative process look like? And as a person who's at the helm of overseeing brand work, what role do you play when you're doing that decision making?
[06:20]
C
Oh my God, it's so much fun. One of the, for example, if I think about a partnership that we just had this year was with H and M, it's a global powerhouse and it's actually global fashion icon. But if you look at the core of what they do, they actually democratize access to fashion through sustainability through, you know, something that is very elevated. When we partnered with them, we took our holy grails and we actually reinvented them. So Power Grip, Halo, Glow Camel. Three of our holy grails in our portfolio and we actually reimagined what that can smell like, what could feel like, what would it be if I'm carrying it? And when we got in the room with H and M and our partners and we flew over to their offices, we brought that world together. So the process is really this notion of how can we do something that we wouldn't have been able to do without you as a partner and you couldn't have done it without ELF as a partner. And that process means that you really have to trust each other, but you also have a lot of creativity on the table and you're saying to yourself, there's nothing that you couldn't do and actually anything is ELF impossible. And if you put the meeting of the minds together, what can you actually create that goes beyond the boundaries of what our community can expect from us?
[07:27]
B
So clearly you're doing a lot of, I'd say, like pioneering type work in your category. I'm curious, there's gotta be things that you've seen from whether it's legacy brands or just other brands out there that are maybe old hats. Is there anything that you historically have had as part of your arsenal that you've kind of done away with because it's just so outside of the realm of the very non traditional way that you approach marketing and brand work at E L F Beauty.
[07:56]
C
I actually don't think there's anything we've done away with. I actually think there's things that we probably didn't put the right amount of weight on or maybe that actually I see as brands tend to get overvalued and that's SEO, you know, especially the game now. You know, when you think about SEO, much of it was like, oh, I just want to be discovered. Right? I want to be searched, I want to be found. Now realizing that it not only impacts your ranking, but it impacts your credibility and your ability to actually AI optimize, if you will, and find your community in the ways that they're looking for brands or they're looking for experiences or looking to do something different. And I think that's actually over. So it's not something that I think we've abandoned, but actually thought about how to look at it through a different lens.
[08:36]
B
Yeah, there's been so many occasions where if you ask anybody who works for any agency, this is the end all, be all question, which is let's just heavy up into SEO. But there's a lot of brand work that needs to be done to make sure that you're fueling in and making the most out of SEO. So, yeah, it's a good, good proof Points for people to be thinking about. Also, as an experienced marketer, I have to ask you about the flip side, which is that you are taking these, making these non traditional choice and you have your way of going about it, but still there's risk and with risk there's a reward and with risk there's also sometimes more risk. What is that process looking like on your end when sometimes your community, of course you celebrate when your community celebrates and that they're pleasantly surprised and delighted. But on the flip side with that, did you call it 0 distance?
[09:24]
C
0 distance.
[09:25]
B
With 0 distance, they're gonna tell you the flip side too, which is I'm disappointed. I was looking for something different.
[09:30]
A
That's right.
[09:30]
B
So what does the reception process look for you all? You are trying to receive that feedback and thinking what it is that you're going to do next.
[09:37]
C
Our community isn't shy. They're not shy in one demanding what they want from us. And oftentimes they will say, you know, if you open up one of our social posts, we'll be talking about this amazing melting lip balm and they're like, but I want this. And so they start using almost social as a, as a walkie talkie to actually share with us what they're thinking and what they want to see from us and what they're demanding in many ways. Sometimes you get capital letters, I want bronzing drops. And that was a piece that actually happened in our history where our CEO went on live stream and our community was asking for bronzing drops and he actually had to go come out of that and walk down the aisle to our product development room and actually ask them to accelerate it. So there's the demand part. So our community lets us know that. But they also tell us when something is working and we usually see those signals within the first few posts of a launch. We'll actually know how our community is responding, how they're liking it. For example, we just launched Elfhair and it was a six piece collection that we launched for our community and instantly they told us what they loved about it. The smell, the price points. And you're really getting those in moments when we do something and we actually realize we've outset our community. A great example is we've undervalued the power of a pickle. What I mean by that is we created this amazing lip balm that was pickle flavored. It was actually a sheer tint, but for pickle lovers it was really admired and we sold out in less than 14 minutes and our community was not happy about that. Stay tuned. There might be something coming back for them, but that was an interesting aspect of how you actually know how your community is responding to them just by watching and listening to the signals that they're giving you.
[11:10]
B
Well, I also need to ask, because the show is called Ad Tech Unfiltered, I'm curious about the impact and the thought process of taking your brand and having it have application in the digital paid media world. What does the processing and the looking at digital paid media look like for altbeat?
[11:27]
C
Yeah, such a critical piece of our marketing engine, I would say for us, you know, digital paid media, not different from other brands, but it's really critical for us to think about the audiences that we're reaching with it. Right. And how you actually are speaking to that audience. Where are you going to find them? So, for example, when we actually went in and partnered with Katherine Legg, who is an Indy 500 for, we actually worked with her for Indy 500 two years ago, continued to partner with her. You know, we were like, there's an entire audience of race car drivers and actually girls who are going to the race car families that are actually going to the Indy 500 that have never been spoken to. And when you think about that in the realm of paid media, it's like, how are we actually reaching them both organically, but also how are you making sure that what you're doing out there is actually getting the right reach and
[12:13]
B
landing a question that I think a lot of people who are knocking down your door want to know about, which is everybody wants to work with Elf Beauty and a lot of people don't know what you need and they may not know where they could possibly sit in your process. When advertising solution providers are trying to talk to you or your cmo, what advice would you give to them as far as how to approach you in a way that is actually going to deliver value for you and off beauty?
[12:39]
C
Yeah, I think one of those things is what we like to do is always to work on the unexpected. And one of the things I always like to say to partners is whether it's an agency partner or what have you, is let's do something together that you haven't done either. You know, we're always the first ones to say, like, hey, we'll beta test something with you. I think that we love to work on. Pioneering is a word that you brought up. What can we actually do together to forge a new path? What can we actually test out together? And I think that's one of the things that would really get our pique, our interest. When we like to work with our community, it's always about how can we create something that they never saw coming but there's an ELF twist to it. Personality is something that we really went on as a brand and we want to continue to build on that.
[13:19]
B
I talk about this all the time because I my specific role is focused on examining innovation. So I have similar questions for any number of brands that we work with. And the challenge I constantly put to them is it's your job to bring something interesting to me, not the other way around. I'm like, I can't do all the legwork. I've got other things to do. Like you, you do the work and then like talk to me about it on the, on the other side. And you know, for a woman and a team as busy as where you're seated, that responsibility definitely falls to those partners. That makes a lot of sense. I've just got a couple of wrap up questions for you.
[13:52]
C
Sure.
[13:52]
B
One of them being about the future of beauty and what you've been observing. What's changing in the beauty catego that you've really taken note of.
[14:01]
C
I think how quickly trends are picking up and I think the intergenerational use of makeup and who's actually influencing your skincare routine. You know, I was certainly coming of the age where I was influenced by my mom's Pons routine. Right. I was like watching her in the bathroom and putting her in makeup and washing her face and then doing what she needed to do as part of her routine as a working parent. I think nowadays it's almost reversed. Right. So I have two Alpha girls. I'm almost watching them, you know, walk into Ulta, walk into Sephora, walk into Target and seeing what are the gravitating towards. So it's really interesting. I think that's a really big piece that has shifted in the beauty world. The influences that are coming from Gen Z and Gen Alpha have been really prominent. An intergenerational sharing of the love. And I think that's where Elf really wins because we have multi generational appeal and we've continued to win with Alphas, Gen X, Gen Z, millennials and seeing that broad distribution, everyone loves it.
[14:53]
B
I was just talking to a colleague earlier about there are younger and younger consumers that are much more educated about the beau they are and they're looking for not just brands but very specific products from those brands even. Yes. And it's just, it's a very different world. And that is something that I imagine E L F Beauty and other brands that are receiving that younger consumer. Really, they have to have an awareness around.
[15:18]
C
Yeah, absolutely.
[15:19]
B
And then a follow up question and this wasn't in my original list so I'm just throwing this out there and we'll see how you feel about it. I was talking to one of my colleagues named John Hyland and he said, you need to talk to Lori and ask her about Devil Wears Prada and I'll share the context in which he meant it. I don't know if you watched the movie. I haven't. But he said that a big component of the film is that there is this big transition in the beauty category or just for brands that historically needed to be in the pages of Vogue or needed to be in the pages of. If they're no longer in the pages on the. On publications, on publisher sites. Because that was absolutely essential for the promotion of those brands. I'm curious, you know, especially again we talked earlier about how the. You guys are a revolutionary brand. You have non traditional ways in which you've gone about it. Really. You've maybe graduated away from a lot of that. But I think about accessible brands and historically they needed to be in beauty pages. Curious. To what extent is that something that is relevant or important for Elf Beauty to be in the pages of like these, you know, the old guard publications?
[16:22]
C
I think it ultimately becomes a question. It kind of goes back to when we think about the platform, be where your community is. And if we find that our community is giving us signals that they are reading print publications or if they're more offline. Right. Or they're more online or if they're online and they're on platforms or if social selling is something that they're really interested in and they want to have more conversations there. I think leaning into that and finding those signals is probably the biggest cue on it. So if that's something that we're seeing from our community, we will in a new one away. I don't think print is dead. I think it still has. It holds a lot of value. And I think it also has another nostalgia element for some of us. I love flipping through a magazine and discovering new things.
[17:01]
B
Yeah. And then final question for you. Sure. A lot of people want to work in the beauty space when they think about marketing. Beauty is an exciting category. What advice do you have for young marketers or marketers who are curious to work in the beauty space? Do you have any advice for them? Don't hesitate.
[17:17]
C
Step Right in. Right. Beauty is very trend driven, but also very fast paced. I do believe that the marketing here is we tend to be very innovative and we're trying new things and experimenting. And I would say for anyone who is looking to get into the beauty industry, you know, when I think about even my own entry, I started entry level. Coming into beauty industry, I was willing to. And I was at l' Oreal and I had a very beautiful career there, nearly two decades. But I came in entry level because I knew I was willing to learn and I had a curiosity about learning. So my advice would say apply that curiosity and go for it.
[17:50]
B
I love that. I do think tap into it. It's tricky. I mean, in today's landscape, there are so many inventive young people who are thinking of really creative ways to appeal to jumping in at the bottom rungs of the ladder.
[18:02]
C
Oh, yeah.
[18:03]
B
I think, if anything, you know, even our discussion informs the way that maybe a young marketer needs to appeal to a brand like Elf.
[18:10]
C
I have a great story because I have someone who's now on my team. She started as an intern, now she's a coordinator. But how she became our intern was very interesting because what she did was she created a TikTok video while she was walking in to drop an application and she was actually dropping off her resume at the office. And it got noticed that she came into our office and was bringing her resume. And next thing you know, our recruitment team called her back in and she had an interview and it just showed that she was willing to break the mold and it was disruptive. But she also was very much showing us what Gen Z is doing differently in terms of getting noticed.
[18:44]
B
Yeah, yeah. I'm walking away from this conversation just recognizing that creativity is mandatory and creativity is always evolving. 100 that is something that you're really on top of you and the much larger team at Ultra Beauty. So we're excited to see what happens next. I'll be keeping my ears.
[19:01]
C
Oh, thank you.
[19:02]
B
And I appreciate the time today.
[19:03]
C
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
[19:05]
A
My thanks to Lori Lam, Chief Brand Officer at E L F Beauty, for this discussion on why community has become a competitive advantage, how brands can earn cultural relevance, and why experimentation is becoming a core marketing discipline. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe wherever you get podcasts and please do join us for a bunch of new episodes, both brand related and adtech related, in upcoming weeks. I'm Noord Nasir. More adtech unfiltered Real soon.