Amy Lanzi (2:37)

You know, I didn't start knowing I was going to be in this industry. I actually am a analytical quant versus a qual person. I was a finance major in college, I went to SMU and my first job was at American Airlines as an analyst actually in yield management. So I, you know, my father is a physicist. So you can definitely. I definitely wasn't ever going to see myself in the marketing industry, but here I am today. That job at American really shaped me in a couple of different ways. First, are you familiar with what yield management is in the airline business?

Ad Tech God (Host) (3:14)

I am not actually. What is, what is that?

Amy Lanzi (3:16)

So basically it is and now it's. This is, I'm sure John, with AI primarily but at the time it's really about how do you use. Have. Have analysts that are assigned to roots. So think Dallas, New York in which you are determining the best way to extract the most yield out of the flight. Right. So you know when you book a trip and sometimes it's very expensive and sometimes it's not. This is called yield management. And so my first job was working at American and the day of departure and determining how I could. It's almost like gambling, right?

Ad Tech God (Host) (3:53)

How much programmatic trading.

Amy Lanzi (3:55)

Exactly. Yes. Which I think is a little the point here, which is like how much can I overbook this flight because I'm making some assumptions that someone is, you know, might be a business traveler. They may or may not make that 7am flight on a Thursday. We all know how we travel for business versus personal. And so you're making these decisions and then pricing the flight as well as allocating seats accordingly based on that. That was my first job. It was a lot of fun to work at an airline. I love the airline industry. We also got to fly for free. Non revenue travel was a lot of fun. So it was perfect for, you know, an analyst. Coming out of college, I also really learned quite a bit about the role of two things. Customer experience, everything matters. So one of the things they do is they have you work, go into the field and be a gate agent. And now if you're a gate agent and I see you coming up and I know that you are a, you know, executive platinum flyer and you're. I don't have a seat for you. You now are at the front lines and have to explain this and you're calling your friends back in the day of departure to explain. I really need you to clear a seat. I need you to help me. And it was really interesting because you now learn so much about everything matters. This decisions you make behind the scenes when you're playing with these flights and the load factor and then what it's like to be that person on the front lines managing really important customers or someone that really wants to make their kid's birthday. So this was an interesting moment for me because I learned quite a bit about decision making as well as just the importance of customer service. I was then recruited by a founder who was starting an agency called TPN and he was looking for those that were not agency people. He wanted data and analytics people like myself. And he wanted to really figure out what the final mil meant in the world of advertising. How do you really drive someone at the point of conversion? He had been a marketing lead at big QSRs and as well as a big convenience store and felt like this was a real gap in the advertising market because he didn't feel like he had that business consulting designed around how do I drive a transaction at the moment of preference versus how do I just make campaigns. So he built an agency with a lot of non agency people and that agency was eventually acquired by Omnicom. You know, I really benefited from working there as well as learning inside really a startup. We didn't use that language at the time, but it was a startup that was eventually acquired inside of Omnicom.

Ad Tech God (Host) (6:36)

How was that I guess transitioning from what was a nimble startup agency into rolling into a bigger holdco?

Amy Lanzi (6:44)

I was early on in my career so it was nothing but exciting because it opened up incredible clients to go get as well as new friends in the industry to pitch with so that we could deliver an expanded service model to clients. So I eventually moved from Dallas to New York and worked on CPG and alcohol at the time and then also really scaled the agency inside of Omnicom. And it was nothing but a wonderful experience because I learned a lot in the process. Because I was so early in my career I didn't have the pressure of what it feels like to have an earn out and all the things I know now, I didn't know any of that. To me it was an incredible growth opportunity.

Ad Tech God (Host) (7:27)

When you look back at your time at Publicis Media, Publicis Group and where you are today as a CEO has a lot changed in what your clients are looking for and how you're servicing your clients because you are a service focused, technical kind of analytical mind. Have those requirements changed a lot for brands that you work with.

Amy Lanzi (7:46)

Absolutely. And part of the reason I left Omnicom and wanted to go to Publicis I really enjoyed working at DPN is I felt like so much of the common conversations I was having was around media and how I was helping clients invest their dollars versus make creative. So I said to myself I need to follow where I think the market is going and how I can better service my clients. And that story was becoming much more of a media story, especially in the commerce world. How do I invest in Amazon? How do I invest in Walmart as these retailers have become media partners. So that's why I made the decision to move over to Kugelsys Media. Best place you could possibly go to learn about media and also build out a practice. My first role was building out a practice around how to how brands primarily CPG brands should invest in retail media so they can drive incremental sales.

Ad Tech God (Host) (8:41)

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Amy Lanzi (9:24)

As well as counseling brands that had strong data offerings to be able to build their site side retail media offerings which was really exciting and then I moved into the digitas role. So to your question, I think the conversation as I look at my my beginning to where I am now, it's much more about how you are counseling clients on total investment to recruit and retain consumers versus what kind of creative can I make? What should I buy in the marketplace? From a media standpoint, the total investment story is not just you know, how you show up in creative and media. It's also what kind of ad tech should I be using, what kind of data offering should I have so I can be better, faster, smarter? So that service layer is much more expansive than when I first started in the business, which really was what's a big idea and how can we get this out into the market? You need that now of course, but you must be surrounding that with other things to be able to keep up with the rate of change of consumers as well as the platforms.

Ad Tech God (Host) (10:30)

Yeah, because I was going to ask you about, you know, the balance between creativity and data and you know just overall strategy for your clients. Is that something that you at Digitas do? Is it the full kind of package of how we work with you to access the media report and record the data and the performance and on top of it, create the concept of what this ad may be or look like?

Amy Lanzi (10:57)

Absolutely. So our offering is called Networked Experiences and it's exactly what you just said and it's about network thinking. So of course, and I would say now more than ever, we really need big breakthrough ideas, but they need to be designed in a way that can be immediately contextual and that's where the quick marriage of data and media investment happens. And it's happening much faster and needs to in order for you to create that breakthrough platform thinking and activation. So it's a really exciting time to be at Digitas because Digitas was born really originally around the promise of direct mail and in 1980. Born in 1980. And what direct mail is, is really using data to figure out how I can find the right prospects and get them to buy more things.

Ad Tech God (Host) (11:47)

Right.

Amy Lanzi (11:47)

That's at the core of the agency. It's a, you know, data analytics is an, is a significant component of our offering. And now we use that to deliver fantastic, creative, better integrated media offering what I call addressful relationships, modern serum, the use of social, not just to be out there, but also to transform your business. Think TikTok shops here and then of course again commerce. What are the right places you need to invest to drive the most sales for your business?

Ad Tech God (Host) (12:17)

Because you mentioned your, your analytical. You love, you love that. How do you balance that? Because it's hard. As you know, running market structure has, has a few different aspects and luckily I have two great business partners that help me on the things that I'm weak at. So like, you know, there's the marketing aspect of it that I usually run, but then there's the content piece and there's the creativity piece. And even for me, finding that balance between being, what's the right word? Professional, yet delivering the message correctly, being creative, measuring all of our campaigns and strategies that we do is, is a hard balance, but we're a much different scale than some of the clients that you're working with. How do you balance that out between the creativity, the data, the strategy, and everything that you're doing with your clients?

Amy Lanzi (13:01)

It's a fantastic time as a quant because we can use our data offering in our world. It's epsilon to be able to get much closer to consumers, our growth audiences, and know a lot about them. So we have a better picture of them. That's dynamic. Right. Versus when I first started, it was much more like here's a profile of mom. And we didn't know that much about them. Now we do. And so then it gives you this rubric to be able to also assess creative to then say, what unique things do we see within our identity layer about this, you know, growth audience we're after? What are some edge thinking here that we can then use to create a spot for the creative to break through?

Ad Tech God (Host) (13:46)

Right.

Amy Lanzi (13:46)

I think it's, you know, for me and the founder of tpn, he had this great phrase and he said, you're going to meet with all types of clients. You have linear thinkers and gut thinkers. Your job is to walk right down the middle. So that's always been my point of view. I do gear towards data and analytics, but I am also. Sometimes it just feels right. And so now you have to think about how you use these two things together to be able to make those decisions. And I think that there's much more opportunity to do that. Especially as we think about the rise of synthetic audience, for example, and how we are able to create synthetic consumers and ask them questions. That's using analytics to be able to determine what are the right types of creative places we should play and where we should not play. That's a way to be able to walk right down the middle of being a linear and a gut thinker.

Ad Tech God (Host) (14:40)

I love that. I do love the leaning into the gut feeling. Sometimes it just feels right. It's resonates with you and with your clients. I did want to touch up on something that you mentioned. So the synthetic users that came up in a conversation a couple weeks ago with a friend of mine, what does that look like? What do you think that synthetic user, I guess creation and utilization of AI will help shape the way you work with clients and the way you run and manage your campaigns for clients.

Amy Lanzi (15:10)

For me, it's obviously AI is everywhere.

Ad Tech God (Host) (15:15)

Everywhere.

Amy Lanzi (15:16)

But for me, what I've loved about this is speed to market. So when you are. We build synthetic audiences all the time against briefs. So for example, when we were trying to we looked at the TikTok trend of hot girl walk. But we built an audience using epsilon data to be able to ask the question, using what we understood from that trend on TikTok, what does hot girl want for dinner? What kind of car does hot girl like? And then it starts to give us a sense of places that we can play. And then you build out creative concepts and Visuals. And then you say, what do you think of this? Do you like it? Do you not like it? If you were to create a social post about this, what do you, what would you make? And so it's a fast pretesting for us across the board. It's not just for creative and then also for clients. It's pretty magical because you can learn more about new places you want to play without using some of the legacy research approaches. So it's a little bit of that concept of thinking fast and slow. And this allows us to feel again to be both linear and gut thinkers at the same time and validating that because we can. And then of course, you know, we have. When we think about AI, you know, part of my perspective on running an agency like Digitas is we I owe it to the agency to train them on what's next, just like I was trained on what's next. So two years ago we really, you know, started thinking about AI and the future. What does it mean to be a frontier firm? How do we then build bottom up? How do we build the agents that make sense at the capability level so that we are then making our capabilities that much stronger so then we can get to a point where we are today, which is to figure out how do I liberate unicorns? You know, that's what Digitas people are from doing low value actions versus what are the things they should be spending their time and their brains on that really add value to clients, which is where we are now.

Ad Tech God (Host) (17:20)

So Amy, we chatted prior to recording and I asked you if it was okay to ask, and I like to ask this of many guests for own personal reasons. As a, as a female CEO in the space and working for such a reputable company and having such an incredible background, what do you feel has been possibly the biggest leadership lesson you've had or even, maybe even some of the challenges that you may have faced because you are a female in the space or do you feel like everything's just been fine and you've just worked your butt off and you are where you are today? I always love to hear the perspective because I think it varies for so many people across the space.

Amy Lanzi (17:57)

You know, I, for me, everyone works really hard and you have to work really hard in our business. You know, this I would say for me, one of the things that I have focused on is not to be afraid to be a female leader. I have found that when I see other female leaders that are trying too hard not to bring their most female selves to the Workplace that is not a comfortable position to be in versus these are our superpowers. So lean into them. Like, I have an incredible, you know, eq. I am very empathetic. I relate to the people I work with through that lens, and that has always been how I am. And it's okay to be that way. There's nothing wrong with that. You know, I. Sometimes I think female leaders are worried about being nice. My point of view is I'm not nice. I am precise, but I'm also kind. And that is an important thing as a female leader that we all need to do more of. That's one, I think. The second thing is I spend time bringing other female leaders with me. I think that's really important. And sometimes women in. In the workplace, forget our industry, have a hard time asking for what they think they deserve. And so one thing I always say is, if you're uncomfortable asking for yourself, ask for all the other women behind you, because you're setting the new course for female leadership. And that is still a big job for all of us to hold hands and do together, and let's do it in a way that we feel proud versus feeling like we need to act like men. I don't think we need to do that. I think we need to act more like women in the workplace, and that's okay, you know, and you. You mentioned you have a daughter. I have a daughter that's in college. And when you think about being a parent and what you're setting forth here, I, you know, I hope and I know that she is love seeing that I am in the workplace and that I am making change and leading clients and really trying to do things that I think are right and also leading the way as a female leader.

Ad Tech God (Host) (20:09)

Amy, one of the things that you said was so powerful. It was, you know, don't be scared to ask for yourself. Ask for the people behind you or the people after you. I think this goes for a lot of people. I think, yes, it goes for females in the workspace, but I think it goes for minorities. I think it goes for people who maybe don't come from a background of working at this level. Their backgrounds might be different. Their work history, their family work history is very different. And moving into the corporate world is different, asking for these types of challenges and opportunities and the pay that you deserve and the growth that you deserve. And I know I for one, was relatively shy to ask, but then also was very quick to say, okay, that's fine, like, I'm just going to move on. But to think about the importance of asking for that for the generations after you and the people that come after you, and that's why you need to stand up, I think was so powerful when I heard you say it. So thank you for sharing that.

Amy Lanzi (21:00)

Absolutely.

Ad Tech God (Host) (21:02)

When you look at the space you mentioned, data, commerce, creative, the industry changing over the last five years, where do you see the industry heading? And maybe we'll focus on the short term first and then if you want to lean into long term. But over the next 12 to 18 months, we're starting to see lots of changes as it relates to tech. We're seeing a massive implementation of AI on the creative front, on the analysis front, even on the operational front. But where do you see things moving in the industry over the next 12 to 18 months? And then if you want to even leapfrog to five or ten years from now where you think it's going to be, I'd love to hear that as well.

Amy Lanzi (21:39)

I said it earlier in terms of short term and this balance of cre. You asked the question about creativity and I it's so important now for brands to really stand for something. And I don't mean purpose based, I mean be the answer for something. You know, we come from a world of I might search something and things come up and then there's a list and then I might land there. Where in the future you just need to be the answer in someone's emotional framework for you to win in the world of AI. So I think this is really important because it's about restructuring the type of campaigns and things that you do so you really stand for something to be the answer for as well as how you're creating in a world of an incredible demand for content, content that really continues to support this versus content to be found, if that makes sense. I think that is an important shift that I'm starting to see. The second one is a real focus on getting closer to your consumer more than you ever have been before. We've always talked about first party data. To me, you cannot be winning in AI if you do not have your own data and you have your own connection to your consumers so that you know them better. This will then of course make all the AI efforts you put into place better because they're ownable to you. In a world where it's so expensive to continue to do things through paid media, all the things that the platforms are doing that we could talk all day on in terms of AI and creation inside the platforms, it is going to be harder and harder to get to consumers. So in order to do that you need to have your own relation, your own data as well as your own relationship with them so that you are, they know what you're the answer for and you are deeply connected to them in your own channels. I think this is very important now. And we'll separate the brands that are winner in your Next in the five to 10 years. And you're probably thinking of brands that know you well, that you know are the answer for in your mind as we're talking. And they, they probably have your first party data and you're probably pretty committed to those brands. I think this is really important in order for a. If I'm a CMO, I would be 100% focused here and then how you then today use creators to be able to help you recruit consumers into your brand. Creators are really brands best friends and they're also people's best friends. Right? All of us have creators, we follow and we listen to them like they're our friends and, and that's a way for you to be able to really get closer to consumers. So think of creator as a channel, but a channel for your own growth versus just continuing to invest in creators because over time that's not gonna be helpful for you either because you won't afford to be able to do that.

Ad Tech God (Host) (24:39)

So I love that cause. Okay, so as a creator I can tell you that I receive, I would say 10 to 15 DMs, maybe a month, maybe more, sometimes more about. Thank you. I love you. Like what you're doing for the space is awesome. I love that you're highlighting people in their backgrounds. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm happy things are working out for you at market. And I think to myself, this is so weird. They don't even know who I am. But they love the message and the delivery. And so when you mentioned the importance of the creators and they're your brand's best friends and there's a, like a personal aspect of it, I feel it because there are people I talk to all the time in dms, they don't know who I am. And we have full fledged conversations and like, okay, talk to you later. Like we're best friends. I'm like, this is awesome. Like, and I consider them friends. But then it's awkward when I see them out in public and I don't say hi because I'm like, they don't know who I am. But I agree it's a, it's, it's so the Creator economy and the importance of creators is, is in my opinion, something I've learned from personal experience, that it is, it is quite powerful and really a superpower.

Amy Lanzi (25:45)

Truly to me it's, it's a little bit of a modern word of mouth and think about, about how that channel is really part, how you are part of that story for a brand versus I see some brands just try to get in there and think of it through a paid standpoint. It's like that's kind of not the point because then those creators will break up with you. And that's also damaging because they have their own loyal. You have your own loyal following. I think that's a really magical place for brands to play and also to survive. You know, I look at, you know, the lens of, we talked about our kids. I have an 11 year old and I see where he spends his time and he spends a lot of his time on YouTube shorts and in Minecraft and Roblox. And this is where brands are built.

Ad Tech God (Host) (26:35)

We have the same kids.

Kate from Marketexture (26:36)

Yes.

Amy Lanzi (26:37)

And so you watch their behavior and you think about how you are then creating again to be the answer for and how you're creating these connections that will last, but also how you're helping, you know, you, our kids grow up and thrive and do all those wonderful things that we should. It's not just about stealing attention. It's about really being the answer for something.

Ad Tech God (Host) (26:59)

So before we wrap up, I'll tell you a story. Last, maybe three or four weeks ago, I went to a, like a local mall that had a clothing release and they brought all the influencers there. So like every YouTube TikToker and like it was almost like the red carpet, like they would pull up in their suburbans, they would walk down this path into a gated area. I want to say that there were thousands of people, thousands of kids. My kids were screaming, I can't believe, you know, whatever, Johnny is here. And I'm, I'm looking, I'm like, who is Johnny? Like, I've never heard of this person. He's a major YouTuber. He has like 300,000 followers. I'm like, never heard of this guy in my life ever. And people were screaming, yelling, they were walking around signing autographs. And I think it was that moment that I realized, okay, I talk about the creator economy. I talk about the importance of being a creator and delivering my message or whatever. But I realized just how big the creator economy is and that delivery of like a brand value, like Johnny the influencer saying, you should buy this sweater and how huge that is for when people are showing up and buying the sweater just because this influencer said it's a cool sweater and it's pretty incredible.

Amy Lanzi (28:19)

For the brands, it's interesting. Like the, the industry talks quite a bit about personalization at scale and I think that's the wrong language because it's actually personal. Creators are an incredible personalized concierge.

Kate from Marketexture (28:33)

So.

Amy Lanzi (28:33)

Right. So if you're 300,000 people, not 3 billion are following this Johnny at the mall, he has a profound impact on what they're buying. And as a brand, that's pretty incredible and also really hard to do. And so you need to be very clear on who is. How are you going to do this in a way that feels authentic? Because Johnny will, will not rep you if you don't make authentic make sense for his audience. You know, there's the, the conversation about creators and influencers and you know, creators are creating for their fans. They're not trying to influence their fans. Two different things. That's what influencers do. So that, you know, thousands of people showed up at the mall, which is pretty wild. And especially when you, you feel it. That's how I feel when I'm with my, you know, my kids. And I'm surprised at like this whole world that I is coming for us to understand.

Ad Tech God (Host) (29:34)

Amy, thank you. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for being my guest and looking forward to seeing you at marketexture Life. So thank you again.

Amy Lanzi (29:42)

Wonderful. Thank you for having me. A fantastic conversation.

Ad Tech God (Host) (29:45)

Same here. Thank you, Amy.

Kate from Marketexture (29:51)

Hello and welcome back to the Refresh, your weekly download on what went down in advertising. I'm Kate with Marketexture and today is Tuesday, October 14th. This week we're talking about Paramount's new ad format. American Express launching their commerce media network, Duolingo building out an ad platform and Google's ad tech antitrust remedies trial wrapping up. So let's get into it. Starting things out with Paramount plus who's kicking it old school with their latest ad unit that they announced at Advertising week. It's called streaming fixed units. The idea behind the ad format is to recreate the static ad placement experience that comes with traditional appointment viewing TV where your spot always aired in the same slot episode after episode. With these fixed units, an advertiser's ad will stay locked into the same position for seven days after an episode airs for on demand viewers. After that, ad delivery reverts back to the usual dynamic ad insertion setup that's characteristic of most programmatic CTV activation these days. For advertisers, it's a small but meaningful win, a way to maintain some consistency and certainty in how their ads appear and where they show up within a show structure. To do this, the ads will be transacted via direct order and scheduled manually in the ad server. In a world where most ads are delivered dynamically in an addressable capacity, Paramount is recognizing the value in being able to at least temporarily deliver a universal brand experience for audiences. The format will roll out across some of Paramount's biggest titles, including Tulsa King, Landman, Mayor of Kingstowne, and eventually sports content, as well as the various Yellowstone spinoffs that are in the queue. Moving to our next story, American Express is looking to capitalize on commerce media's momentum, as DJ Khaled would say, Another one not to be outdone by rival payments providers like MasterCard, who, in case you missed it, announced their own commerce media network last week. American Express is launching Amex Ads, which is arguably one of the catchier media network names so far, thanks to a little bit of alliteration. The network will be powered by first party data from their 34 million cardholders and come with a full suite of measurement and brand safety tools. Like MasterCard, Commerce Media and Chase Media Solutions, Amex Ads builds off of their existing offers business, which is essentially just promoting brand deals and discounts within Amex's own web and app properties. While Amex's 34 million users seems to pale in comparison to MasterCard's 500 million, they're banking on their audience niche of more affluent premium cardholders to be a key differentiator for them to support this goal. And in a move that's counter to how we've seen other commerce media networks launch recently, Amex is keeping inventory within its owned web and app properties. The network will debut on amextravel.com and later expand to other Amex owned platforms, which also allows for a more closed loop measurement experience for its advertisers. The 10,000 foot view here Commerce Media networks and consequent spend is booming. WPP Media estimated it'll hit $170 billion this year, but the room is getting crowded. Standing out means offering something unique that's going to prove its worth to advertisers. American Express has said that this offering extends to what would be considered non endemic advertisers, but for now I think the offering feels most relevant to brands that align with Amex's premium positioning. Think travel finance business professionals in the context of the current commerce media landscape. Leaning into your niche and offering novel ways to reach audiences while also being able to more directly measure their actions could be what's needed to succeed succeed Jumping over to Duolingo, who's also making improvements to their ad offerings by building their own ads platform to bring sales and execution closer to home and under a greater degree of control. The language learning app currently relies on programmatic enablement via DSP partners and connections like Google's AdMob. Yes, the same AdMob that's under Google's ADX network and currently is the subject of antitrust scrutiny from the DOJ to deliver ads to its massive free user base, which makes up about 90% of Duolingo users. Duo's leadership stated that this new offering isn't meant to replace Programmatic but to complement it, and the premium direct sales product will live alongside the open auction system. Duolingo's ad formats fall into familiar categories for mobile app skippable, interstitions after lessons, and rewarded videos that earn users in app currency. But what's new here is how the brand is giving more of a leading role to its well known and well loved cast of characters. Duolingo plans to feature them in branded videos for advertisers or use them as fun intros that lead into partner ads. By asserting more control over its advertising solutions, Duolingo is creating a more premium experience for both its advertisers and app users, and so far, the results of those efforts seem to be a worthwhile investment. Initial advertiser tests saw click through rates hitting a 3% increase, and 94% of users who viewed rewarded video ads completed those ads. The release of this dedicated ad platform and Amex's strategy behind how they've chosen to launch their commerce media network reinforces a trend I've been noticing. More and more companies are pulling components of their ad sales closer to home to better steward their brand identity and retain greater control over who shows up on their platforms. It's an effort that takes the experience of the actual customers of brands like Duo and Amex into greater consideration. Finally, we have Google and the DoJ, who after two weeks of intensive back and forth, have wrapped up the remedies phase of their AdTech antitrust trial. In those two weeks, more than two dozen witnesses took the stand, offering legal, technical and or industry expertise to support arguments to, for and against the proposed remedies from both the DOJ and Google. At the core, the DOJ was pushing for structural remedies, including a potential spinoff of Adex, Google's ad exchange. Google argued that this would be way too complex, but was seemingly undermined by testimony from a former Google and Facebook exec revealing that actually it's doable, it would just be time consuming. The real plot twist was that Google itself even evaluated the possibility of spinning off adx and came to the same conclusion. The DOJ proposed several other remedies, including a spinoff of dfp, Google's ad server, and for Google to have to open source or make public the code that's used for publisher auctions. And right now, both of these are sounding fairly unlikely. On Google's side, their arguments hinged more so on behavioral remedies, stating that anything severe like what the government was suggesting would harm publishers more than help them. And this has been a critical point of contention in this case. How do you rectify Google's monopoly without causing even more disruption and damage to the publishers and the greater open web ecosystem system? On their side, Google is proposing behavioral remedies like policy changes and enabling greater interoperability with third party or competitor products, for example, being able to use a different ad server with adx. Basically, Google is saying they'll promise to change their behavior and play nicer with their peers. But as anyone who's ever navigated toddler negotiation tactics will tell you, it's likely that Google could apply similar antics like when my two year old misbehaves and then promises to change his behavior, I find myself correcting the same behavior and having to remind him of the rules. And not too long after, if you're looking for more in depth coverage that does adequate justice to the story, Market's Erie Pipero was in the courtroom and chronicled each day of the trial for the Monopoly report. And after having read each post, I can confidently say his is the most entertaining and concise capture of the trial's happenings. Ultimately, this trial matters because it hopefully holds Google accountable for years of monopolistic behavior in ad tech and has sparked open conversation around some of the industry's darkest corners for publishers. It might also finally deliver some form of restitution for those who have been caught in the crossfire. But at this point, it does feel like we're looking in the rearview mirror when it's more critical to be looking forward at the future monopolies that are forming right before our eyes. That's all for this week. Thanks for joining us for the refresh and we'll catch you next week. It.