A (3:27)

Amazing.

B (3:28)

And now again, just evangelizing and educating the market on our DSP capabilities and making sure that partners on both sides understands that one plus one could equal three and that convergence and consolidation could be a really good thing for the industry.

A (3:43)

Absolutely agree. You touched upon so much in that short period of time and I really want to touch upon all of them because I think they're all very important topics that the industry talks about a lot. You mentioned two key words that I think are always something that sparks something in me and trust and transparency. I think you talked about the trust in terms of the buyer trust and the seller trust, the way the buy and sell side often do not have that built in. What has has Nexen done in its evolution since the acquisition of Amobi and the rebrand of Amobi tremor unruly in 2003 to help build that trust between the buyers and the sellers in market.

B (4:21)

Buyers and sellers are really smart, they're really informed. We've kind of entered this age where there's just a lot of information and, you know, we're not chasing impressions anymore, we're chasing positive outcomes. And for too long I feel like both sides thought, well, my outcome is my priority and your outcome is yours. And we believe actually that this works much better when the buyers and sellers are working collaboratively to achieve a common goal. The big thing though is there's just a huge amount of players that are in the space. I think the last Luma chart has 15,000 companies in it, which, depending on which side of the aisle you might say, well, you're probably going to look at it and say that's objectively too many. Emarketer shows that, you know, more than 50 cents of every dollar from an advertiser doesn't make its way to a publisher. It's getting lost in this ad tech tax. And so our job is to provide our partners with tools, with insights, with data to allow them to make really great decisions. Like we don't. I would never walk into a marketer's office and tell them how to run their business. Like, I'm not, I'm not that arrogant. What I can tell them is how to deliver ads more effectively and give them the tools to be able to make better decisions. And so we've approached it from a partnership perspective and being able to shine a light on some really high quality premium supply that maybe they weren't always in the market for, and being able to propagate that on behalf of our publishers and drive better results for advertisers is it's kind of in the backbone of our business and our business model, frankly.

A (5:57)

You know, the publisher ecosystem on its own is so complicated. Whether we're talking about the connected television space, the streaming space, mobile or web, that industry is really under a tremendous amount of pressure with external risks, right? They're kind of being battled by LLMs. We're starting to see a little bit of a decline of traffic across the web. And that is a challenge. But in the streaming television world, there's an opportunity to do it right. And hearing what you had to say about the transparency and about the trust that you're building with your supply partners, with your publisher partners makes me ask, you know, what are you guys doing on, on the demand side of the business to create the trust and the KPI and the roast that the advertisers are looking for across the ecosystem?

B (6:45)

We have this simple theory that just by cutting supply sources that you're not making it more efficient. And what I have seen happen from the advertiser side, especially as it relates to ctv, is you're going to buy the premium CTV that, that you know, that you watch, maybe you're going to buy Netflix and you're going to buy Hulu and you absolutely should. It's like super premium and super high quality. There's also some inventory that is extremely premium and extremely high quality and drives incredible results that maybe is just priced a little bit differently and priced a little bit more efficiently. And our job is not to sell on behalf of publishers. Or, you know, force buyers into something that they want to do. The whole concept of our, of our business, of Nexon as a Nexon DSP is we're interoperable, we're holistic, Bring your strategy, we want to be your partner, and we want to shine some light on some things that maybe you haven't considered as a marketer. And if we can do that and we can bring our buyers and sellers together, it tends to lead to pretty positive results. And the great thing is, is, you know, it's the same team that's working with publishers, that's working with advertisers. And so we can have our folks that are sitting here that have just got off the phone with a really premium CTV publisher that maybe is not getting the demand that they feel like they should. We can go have that conversation with our advertising clients and, and give them the opportunity or at least demonstrate the value that this inventory could bring. The nice thing about what we do is everything is measured. So you don't have to trust me or you don't have to trust the publisher. If we've provided the right tools and we've given them the autonomy to make decisions, them being our advertisers on the dsp, then they can test and learn in ways that are much more efficient and much more scalable than anything in the past. And going back to your question about what's interesting to me, that's, that's maybe the most interesting thing we got going on right now. I would like to ask, by the way, because I answered and then just kept moving.

A (8:52)

Sure.

B (8:52)

You, you, you've talked to so many super interesting people across both sides of this industry and beyond.

A (8:59)

Yes.

B (9:00)

What interests you right now? What are you finding to be the most interesting?

A (9:05)

Oh, so this was not on the prep call. There's a variety of things on the supply side of the industry. As I mentioned, we're seeing a little bit on the website a decline of traffic. And I think that is something that's been ongoing for quite some time, maybe stressed a little bit by the LLMs. I think that's one topic. But the item that really excites me, and it feels like it's overdone, is truly what the evolution of the web we Want to Call 3.0 will be in the future. The creation of the supply and demand side platforms created incentives on both sides that don't necessarily benefit the other side of the business. And although it's creating an industry that requires innovation and change of how you work with advertisers, and publishers, I personally believe, and this is not anyone else's opinion, it's the right path forward. The transparency and the KPIs and the delivery of campaigns are very important for advertisers. And monetization, fill rate and maximizing revenue for a publisher is very important. And being able to do that in two entirely separate ecosystems creates a conflict. Like, you know, you have the supply side platform focused on maximizing revenue and you have a demand side platform that's focused on delivering KPIs in full, hitting the campaign delivery based on the timeline that they need. By combining the two. I do believe that is the right way to do it. And we joke that it's the ad network, but it's not. This isn't waterfalling anymore. This is truly delivering on what is the best possible outcome for both sides and maximizing delivery ROI for the advertiser and maximizing CPM and revenue for the publisher. And the only way to do that is remove all those fees in the middle, make it transparent to both sides as much as possible and really deliver. And that's just my view.

B (10:57)

Yeah. And by the way, great answer. Some advertisers might be very comfortable with all of those. They might decide that, hey, I'm spending all this money on these partners, but these partners are generating value and that is absolutely up to them to decide what value means to them. But we got to shine a light on where that money is going and that, that transparency is critical.

A (11:19)

Right.

B (11:20)

And you're right, like, I know you're big on building up the industry and I, and I love and respect that. One of the coolest things about what we do in this industry that we get to work in is that it changes so much. And you know, it may be my recency bias, but, but I feel like in the last year things have changed more like in the last 12 months than in the last five years total. And LLMs are a big part of it.

A (11:45)

Absolutely.

B (11:46)

The, the cool thing is when I sit around with other folks in the industry that I, that I trust and respect, nobody is looking at this as, oh no, the sky is falling. We look at it as an opportunity because the ability to deliver and tell stories to potential customers, it's just evolving, it's changing. And maybe there's some companies that will struggle with that evolution, but there's going to be some great new companies that come up and tackle this really complex problem and things just evolve and move and it's just a cool thing to be a part of. So yeah, I think we're on the same page.

A (12:20)

I, I, I agree. I think that there's, there are those who are panic and they go into a freeze mode and they don't know how to react because they don't want to get out of their own way. And there are the companies that understand that this is an opportunity for growth. This is an opportunity to level up. This is opportunity to change the way they do business with their publishers and their advertisers. And this is a time to innovate during a time where the technological advancements are so fast, you got to be quick, you got to be nimble. And I think the advantage of a company that is not 750,000 employees with 3,000 layers of management is that you can move fast, you can move nimble, you can innovate much faster, and you can create a solution and market that people find attractive and you can hit that market fast. So I believe in the nimble, move fast, make decisions quick, and hit the market quickly. And I think you guys are doing that at Nexen.

B (13:10)

Yeah, I mean, well said. We're certainly trying. I mean, we are, we're a public company and we have a thousand employees. But of all the places I've ever worked, including startups with five employees, like nothing, Nobody moves faster than Nexon because we recognize we're a challenger. We're not the biggest, we're not the most well known. You know, Nexon has not been around for a decade, it's been around for two years. And so if we're not moving fast and creating solutions for complex problems and out in the market talking about them, we're probably going to get left behind. So, yeah, we're working hard and having.

A (13:44)

Worked with some of your team, I know, right? Like, I know how quickly you guys move and how motivated you are to take it to the next level and to continue to show growth. I do have a question for you. As we're seeing this consolidation between platforms on a sell and buy side together, like, there's also this other movement of where brands are starting to build their own ad tech in house. They're controlling their first party data more in order to try to capture and hold on to all of the privacy needs in market. How does that play a role in how companies will work with brands? Do you think these brands are scalable in doing it this way? What, what's your opinion on the pros and cons of in housing ad tech?

B (14:23)

Okay, so there's a lot of pros. I'll start with that. So the first of all, a lot of brands are realizing the gold mine that they're sitting on with their first party data and they're trying to do something with it because they know it'll help improve their business, it'll drive better outcomes for their campaigns, and so much more in the long run. You know, they're really just trying to strengthen their relationship with their customers and using that first party data in a, in a powerful way will do exactly that. You have more control, you have the ability to sort of communicate in a way that you know is going to be most effective to your customers or prospective customers. The downside, the trade off, is like, it's incredibly operationally burdensome, it's incredibly expensive. If you're not some of the biggest, you know, retailers in the world, like a Amazon or a Walmart or a PayPal, where you can monetize your ads in a different way, all of the time and money that you spend is, it's a cost, it's a very hard cost. And you have to find the talent and, you know, the people side of it is a whole unique challenge and building a great team. So for some of the companies that are not, you know, a Fortune 100 brand, it may not be the best thing for you to do, but you still want to have that control. And it's a big part of our business model. If I'm, if I'm honest, I'm not trying to promote Nexon, but it keeps coming back to it, which is, you know, we want to give our partners the ability to tap into their first party data, but turn it into something that is scalable and that is a privacy compliant ecosystem. And that second part of it is not easy, especially if you don't have the resources. So we're trying to give tools and explain to people that our platform is open, it's interoperable, and if you come and you're going to work with us and you're going to leverage our dsp, you can bring your first party data to the party, we can enrich it, we can make it sing, we can make it drive better performance and we give you 100% transparency and ownership in terms of doing whatever with that first party data that you want, while providing some service in terms of coaching and support, but ultimately listening because nobody knows their customer better than the marketer themselves. And we try to be a partner there.

A (16:40)

So I told you earlier, I had, I heard about you. Your name has come up with some mutual friends. I have also heard something else about Nexen and I'll be totally upfront. So one of the things that I've heard about Nexen in market is that you guys have like a white glove service. Like you guys are technically very good with managing your accounts, very hands on and available. You respond to your clients quickly. Your account management team is fantastic. And I think it's those types of support that you provide that's different than others. And I say this because I know of many supply side platforms and demand side platforms that do not have that personal touch. But that personal touch is really important when you're, there's money on the line, goals on the line and quite honestly sometimes people's bonuses on the line. And so when, when they feel that they can pick up the phone and call you or email you directly and get a response, like that's a very important aspect of keeping your clients happy. So I want to tell you that came from someone who told me, so just be fully aware.

B (17:38)

Yeah, it's heartwarming to hear because we have invested a lot, a lot in training and building a really robust services team. We approach it from a very, very kind of simple way is like our job is to give, to get our clients promoted. When someone is going to select Nexon and we might not be the world's biggest DSP or at least well known to this date, you're, you're taking a risk. You're saying, okay, well I'm not going with, you know, insert, you know, Google, right? We're not going Google, we're going with Nexon. And that might have to come with some like, okay, here's what Nexon brings to the table. We want to be able to demonstrate to that partner that we have their back, that we're going to do everything in our power to over deliver, to over service, to over communicate, give them the insights and the tools to make them look like a hero. Not just because the performance is great, which is maybe the minimum expectation, but is to give them tools to go back to, whether it's the CMO or the boss and bring something to the table that is new, an insight that is unique, an opportunity that was maybe untapped and really push the limits in terms of what like performance looks like. So I'm very happy to hear it. That is a big part of what we preach. So I'm happy that the market is hearing it.

A (18:56)

I want to kind of move into some hot topics or a hot topic that just came out a few weeks ago and I wanted to hear your opinion as a kind of a supply Side platform dealing with both buy and sell side of the industry. The Trade Desk has been in constant discussion across all social channels. They recently changed how they prioritize supply side platforms. They've basically. I think I leaked it actually. I think that was my leak that they label them as resellers and it kind of bounced through the Twitter verse and the LinkedIn verse and everybody was talking about what this means. How do you think that this changes the overall dynamic of working with the Trade Desk or even just the overall market dynamic across the board?

B (19:39)

Yeah, well, look, the Trade Desk, I mean the Trade Desk is like an incredible company and anybody that says anything other than that, it's just wrong. Agree they're a partner of ours, but they're also a competitor of ours. I think what they came out and said, or how they labeled SSPs, which I'll tackle in a second, it is the culmination of this tension between DSPs and SSPs that's been going on for a while. And I understand it. Right. I certainly look at Nexon, right? We have a DSP and an SSP. You know, DSPs are going direct to publishers. There's no better example of that than Open Path. Some of the world's largest SSPs have acquired or built buy side capabilities and so those lines are getting a little bit blurred. They're kind of encroaching on each other's territory and I think that is like healthy. I will say though, you know, there are certainly SSPs out there that are resellers. Like there are SSPs that just have a lot of resold inventory. And so that label is probably accurate. I think it's very unfair and does an injustice though to premium high quality supply sources like Nexon and many others that are bringing a lot of value. And I guarantee you if you go to some of the top publishers in the world and you ask them how would you label, you know, your top SSPs, they wouldn't say reseller, they would say, you know, trusted monetization partner. And you know, I understand the frame from the Trade Desk perspective, but there's a lot of value exchange on, on both sides there.

A (21:19)

Yeah, and I agree. I don't see supply side platforms as resellers at all. I think like you said, I think if you have a direct relationship with publishers, if you have direct communication with a publisher, you have direct pipes to the publisher, you are not a reseller, you're a monetization and yield partner. Like your job and your position in market is to drive revenue, improve, fill by Abiding by their guidelines, all the limits that they have on back to back ads or any type of competitive separation, but then also really drive through. Like you're an advocate for the publisher first and foremost. I want to bring you more money and I'm going to bring you demand and I'm going to bring you unique demand that others can't bring you. Which is why, you know, the DSP SSP game is happening and that strategy.

B (22:04)

Is happening and the next thing is there's. Sorry to interrupt, but you know we talked about transparency earlier. Like there is amazing companies like Jounce that do a lot of this heavy lifting for you. Right? Like, and you're extremely thorough and they will tell you exactly which SSPs are, you know, doing resold inventory versus primarily direct supply. And like that's just a data point for advertisers to make better decisions.

A (22:28)

Agree. So we just wrapped up the Age of Outcomes conference in New York City. What's your opinion on outcome advertising? Because we love it, because we create so much conversation at these conferences and we referred to it as the outcomes era. And we've also referred to it as the outcomes error. And I'm curious from your perspective and where Nexon sits, is focusing on outcomes the right KPI or the wrong KPI for your clients?

B (22:54)

I have a lot of thoughts, I'll share some of them. So you know, this whole industry really exists because we're trying to drive better results for marketers, right? All of ad tech exists to drive better results. All of that tech exists to drive a better outcome. So I think we've been in an outcomes era. I would caveat it by saying like we have this, we've entered this new era of optimization towards outcomes. So giving really smart people the ability to determine what is an outcome, there's still. Right. I'm sure, you know, there's a lot of brands and marketers that are still looking at some vanity metrics to drive their business. They're looking at click through rate, they're looking at video completion views. I can tell you from my time at IAS that that is not always a direct correlation to a high performing campaign. On the flip side, there's some really, really intelligent marketers using really outstanding tools within their DSPs and others that allow them to, to really realize what's driving a business result. That business result can be a stronger affinity with their, with their customer. It can be moving products off shelves, it can be, you know, increasing the number of services that are being sold. So you guys are spot on. It is. It is obviously a huge topic of conversation. I just think we've entered this point where we can, we can monitor it and we can prove it in a way that maybe we hadn't been able to in the past, which, which is nice and long overdue.

A (24:33)

Awesome. Awesome chance. This has been amazing. Thank you so much for being my guest and again, thank you to Nexon for sponsoring this episode. But this, this combo was fantastic. So thank you. I appreciate your time.

B (24:46)

Atg. The pleasure was all mine. Thank you.

A (24:48)

Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech God podcast, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates, so follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget ATG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of ad tech innovation.