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This episode is brought to you by the Build, a new podcast from the guys behind Sincera, Michael Sullivan and Ian Myers. They built their company by figuring out clever solutions to a few important ad tech problems in our industry. That's exactly what the show is all about. Mike and Ian interview some of the smartest tech minds in the biz to hear about how they identified opportunities, solved those hardest challenges, and grew their business in the process. Listen to the Build with Michael Sullivan wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the AdTech Godpod, your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your host, Ad Tech God. Welcome to the ADTech Godpod, where we speak to the leaders who work in communications focused on ad tech companies. With me today is Joe Zappa. He's the founder and CEO of Sharp Penn Media. If any of you are familiar with Joe Zappa, you know that this guy was super active on social media and holds back never he's able to have the right conversations on Twitter or X. He's really leaned in to creating this advocacy for CEOs in the space. I'm super happy to have him with us today. So, Joe, thanks for joining me at
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that God, thank you so much for having me on.
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Thank you. You know, rumor has it that we are the same person. Joe.
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No, no. Surely no one would afford me the honor of that mistake.
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A
Amazing. Thanks for joining me and thank you again for having Sam Corey on the pod. We figured we would return the favor. We appreciate it. During a time as we were ramping up for Architecture Live 3, so thanks for that.
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B
Yeah, we are delighted. Eric Frangian. I host Open Market and that's a podcast about building companies in the advertising industry. And events are a big part of that. So you guys are the experts on that and glad to exchange a little bit of wisdom.
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Joe, quick question for you. I usually start with people's background in ad tech, but I really wanted to understand how you got to where you're at today. You've obviously grown your business substantially over the years. You work with a lot of the major ad tech companies. But how did it start and what sparked this idea to create a communications company specifically focused on ad tech?
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Yeah, so I was a Martech trade journalist and then I freelanced for a few PR agencies in the space and created my own. And when Sharpen really took off is when I settled on this differentiated approach that I call executive evangelism. Basically, our view of modern media is that we're living through an age where power is shifting from institutions to individuals. Right? So it's. It's Donald Trump and aoc, not the Republican Party and Democratic Party. It's Ezra Klein and Ari Paparo. It's not the New York Times and Ad Week. It's Timothy Chalamet or even more to the point, like Kylie Jenner, Jake Paul, not, you know, Warner Brothers. And so. And obviously what has allowed the shift from institutions to individuals to take place is the rise of direct to consumer media or social media. And we see that playing out, as I just outlined, across politics, entertainment media, and in business. And that is sort of. Our role is to help ad tech companies, and specifically ad tech CEOs and founders, step into the role of what we call chief evangelists and speak directly to their audiences. So, you know, add to God we can get into. Because you're a huge part of this revolution, right? You were. That is sort of how you burst onto the scene too. You and I have that in common. Like, I don't know if you saw Travis Kalanick just did this interview with the Tech Bro Podcast network, and he was talking about how, how unpleasant running Uber became toward the end. And of course he had some role in that, but he was also saying, like, hey, know, New York Times journalists were just like, wrecking how I was running my company. Right? Because every day we had to worry about what they were doing. And you can see now as he launches his new company, Adams, he is, you know, going on podcast, sort of buy and for the tech industry, more friendly, taking the message into his own hands and speaking directly or almost directly to his desired audience. And so I think, yeah, the media has changed massively over the last decade and, and the way you should, you approach communication should too. And that's what we do for our
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clients, you and I both. I think we talk to a lot of people in the space. And there are some companies that do a really good job at traditional marketing, and there are companies that do a really good job at being outspoken and sparking conversation on various social platforms. And it always amazes me because the thing that resonates the most for me is that CEO, vp, C title, director, whoever it is that just throws it out there, like, what do you think about this product? What do you think about this change? Like, what do you think about AI or genting? And I think it's such a strong position for a even founder or not founder to do that because it just creates such a awareness play of what they're doing in market and how they look at things. So I'm A huge supporter of that for everyone who does it.
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Yeah, I think there are a couple of components to it. There's first, having a narrative, right? Like a drum you're going to beat over and over again. I call it a brand narrative. So you need to ask, you know, not just what are your products and features, what is your company doing? Yeah, but it's like, what is, what is wrong with the status quo? Whom are you championing? How are they being screwed over? How are you changing the industry to their benefit? And you know, what, what does the future of the industry look like if you win? So like a company like TV Scientific, a client of mine, like, I think, you know, they did a fantastic job of that. Right. We're talking about. We've been living in an era of unaccountable advertising. That's why Google and Meta have been eating the rest of the open Internet's lunch. If we could make tv, which is actually the most incremental advertising channel, accountable, it would be not just, you know, a $60 billion industry if it ate all the dollars from linear, but it would be a multi hundred billion dollar industry by bringing in performance marketers and SMBs. They told that story very effectively. They got acquired by Pinterest. Right. That is the kind of story I want to see every CEO and especially every, every founder CEO out there telling. However, I know this is a podcast about the people behind the advertising industry. And so I would also just emphasize, I think this is an extremely valuable thing that anyone can do. Exactly to your point, ad tech, God, it's not just about CEOs and founders. You know, there are folks like Eric Tilbury from Anuvo or Vlad Chubikov from Programmatic 101 who are, you know, not CEO founders of huge ad tech companies, but they've made a massive impact for themselves and their companies by just sharing what they're learning with people. Which is very much in the spirit of this pod and what you do. And I think it can drive a tremendous amount of value for anyone.
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I agree. And it's funny because that was. The example was Eric. He's someone that's actually on this pod. I have an episode coming out in the next few weeks. He talks about that. He's like, look, we may not throw a bunch of money at marketing, but I'm so socially active. It generates such a massive amount of inbound leads because I spark the conversation, I share my learnings and sometimes it gets into the weeds of things, but then the people who like it, like it and they Engage. And they like the tips and they like the insights that I give. And he has become probably the strongest advocate for his company by doing so.
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Yeah, exactly. He is essentially the chief of Anvil for the company, which he is just a role he stepped into merely by sharing what he's learning. And that's the other thing I would say is that if you're listening to this and you know, you're an executive or you, you help an executive at your company, you might be thinking like, oh, but I don't, I'm just like, not the chest beating type. You know, I don't want to be out there tooting my own horn. That's not what it's about. Like, if that's the way you were approaching it, then people probably wouldn't respond anyway. Unless you already have a massive following. What people respond to is when you just share your learnings about the industry and how to approach the job and do it better. That is what Eric does with, you know, programmatic advertising. And it's very effective. That's what, you know, Jason at TV SI is trying to do with ctv. And that's where I'd start. Like, you know, try to post on LinkedIn once a week as a start and just approach it by thinking, you know, what do I know about my industry? What am I constantly saying to my clients or team members that could maybe help someone out there do their job better? And if you do that, people are going to pay attention. Attention.
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Well, what do you think about the personal aspect? I've always wondered. Some stay away from that. Some people are, are constantly just posting truly about their companies. And it's great, it's a great strategy. Go for it, post about your company. But I feel like they're not topic driven. And then you have others that are like a nice mix, right? Like it's, it's topic driven, which obviously benefits their company overall. It's a little bit of sales pitch here and there and then there's a personal touch, personal experiences, things that's going on in their life. Do you suggest that as a tactic that, hey, like, it's okay for you to post about what you may post on your Instagram, on your LinkedIn, because it creates a personal relationship with you that's beyond just business only?
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Yeah.
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You ever speak to your clients about that?
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Yeah, I have. No, I have no objection to that. I think LinkedIn content generally falls into four buckets in our industry. There is commentary on the news, which is sort of what we were just talking about. Our best practices. There is building in public, which is. Which is what loosely categorizes what you were just talking about, which is, yes, talking about the growth of your company and sort of what you're doing from a cultural perspective, but also about what you're seeing and doing personally and who you are as a person, especially when those values intersect between work and personal life. There's case studies, which is real life examples of what's going on and how to do the job. And then there's data and trends. Right. Like any proprietary data you can bring to bear to help people understand what's going on. I think those are all valid. And some of the best posts you'll ever do on social or the best pods or newsletters are inflected with personal experience, because that's stuff that everyone can relate to. And if it's sort of top of funnel and it brings people in and then, you know, they actually buy from you because they're reading your post about, you know, the ins and outs of programmatic, then that's great.
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Do you feel other, I guess, communications companies, PR agencies are doing this and guiding their clients? Because I. I don't hear it. You seem to be your biggest driver of, I guess, lead gen because you are doing exactly what you're telling your clients to do. Right. You know, and I think it's a very smart strategy. But do you feel, I guess, other companies are doing this as much, or are they more focused on traditional?
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I think they're more focused on traditional. I think that's fair to say. Obviously, I'm biased, but I think the reason we've been really effective with this, what I call the executive evangelism playbook, is because we do eat our own dog food. Like, so to go back to your initial question, you know, the way I really broke out onto the scene was I was doing my own executive evangelism. I was doing LinkedIn and Twitter content. You know, I do a podcast with Eric Franchi, and he and I have documented it many times. He actually asked me to do that podcast with him, despite being much more senior in the industry than I am. And the reason was he was like, you do interesting tweets. So he reached out to me and was like, come chat with me. And he was like, well, I just think you have interesting takes and, like, we'll have good conversations. And, you know, that's what led to the pod and also a lot of business for me. So I think marketing agencies are generally really bad at marketing themselves. But in my case, you know, we Practice what we preach. And for what it's worth, if there's anyone from the Holdco's listening, I would love to see hold coast do more of that. I think they're generally like not very differentiated businesses and they now market themselves aggressively and it would be great to see Holdco executives out there evangelizing.
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This is at Tech God and I command you to listen to this house ad. So if you're listening to this show, just know that you've really stumbled upon a giant network of content across advertising, marketing, media, publishing and of course the people that work in this great advertising industry. So go to market. Com, check out all of our brands. We have multitude of shows from the Brand Forum, the Advertising Forum, the Monopoly Report, the Ad Tech God Pod, the Market Texture Pod and more. We are bringing more podcasts to our network. We are consistently and constantly bringing on new shows. So check it out marketecturemedia.com or search for any of those brands in the app that you use to listen to this podcast. Enjoy the show and see you all soon. Yeah, I feel like you're right. I don't hear or see very much coming out of agency hold codes. I mean you do have some very vocal ones like Lauren Wetzel, who is fantastic, right?
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Great example.
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She's very active. It's not just PR and product launches, but she talks about the industry. But really outside of that, I don't hear much from the Holdcos or even I guess maybe a couple of indies do talk about it a little bit. But the Holdcos are definitely a little bit more reserved in that. And I think it would benefit their companies like if they motivated their employees and empowered them to do this. Because I mean from the outside looking in, they all kind of look the same to me. Joe, so what differentiates you?
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Yeah, exactly. And that's, that's the core problem when you're, when you're undifferentiated, it is being more present sometimes that can, that can lead to a go to market advantage. And I think you know Jay Friedman, formerly of Goodway Group, he is a great example of that. Like being out there sharing learnings what he's learning about ad tech and then I'm sure that you know, drove business for them. Lauren Wetzel, you know, obviously formerly CEO of Infosam, acquired by wpp, she, she has been very effective at that. And yeah, as if your business is somewhat undifferentiated. Right. Especially if you are like one of like 20 DSPs or SSPs, it is all the more important to be out there sharing your message because in those cases, it is the people who drive the business forward. Right. It's not, it's often not some granular difference in technology that isn't even perceptible to your target audience.
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AI slop is everywhere. We see it everywhere. And it's not just LinkedIn, it's Twitter, it's Instagram, it's in all formats. It's really hard sometimes to just even read it. And it's a challenge because, you know, it's a, it's a fantastic tool to utilize to improve your post or to spot, you know, to maybe fact check your post or even to just suggest formats. But I see some people that just use it to. They just copy paste and you read it and you're like, man, this is so brutal. Like, you should not have posted that. What are your thoughts on AI? Is that a disruptor for things you do you think it's better prompts or do you feel like it will never really understand the true narrative that you're trying to push? I'd love to hear your opinion on that.
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Yeah, I don't think it is a disruptor in the sense that I don't think we've lost any business because a customer in our target audience is using AI instead. I think it has, however, completely transformed the way we approach, approach the work, which is to say AI is extremely effective at bringing in all the detail you've learned about a client to make sure the work is as custom to them as possible. In an ideal world, it should actually make the work better and faster. However, where marketing professionals can really fall down in the use of AI, as you were just highlighting with the slop we see on LinkedIn is if they are not prompting it extremely carefully and editing it carefully. If you are just going to AI and you're like, read this transcript of the latest TTD earnings call and create a reaction. And then you're like, copy and pasting. It's going to be really brutally bad, right? And it's going to be obvious that you put zero effort into humanizing it. What you should actually be doing is being like, here is a, a transcript of the most recent TDD earnings call. You know, summarize it for me in three points here. And then you say to it, here are, here are my takeaways, right? Here's the post I want to write about this and here are my three key points. And then after you've given it your thinking as an expert, you then further tailor it to, to your voice and you know, remove what I call bot voice.
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If you have writer's block or you just don't know how to start something, it's a great way to start it. That doesn't mean it's the final product is the way I look at it. I use it constantly. All of us use that architecture constantly. It is a great way to spot check your work. It's a great way to come up with ideas of how to start a post and how to write content. But if you're just copy pasting it straight from ChatGPT, it is like the worst thing you can do. I wanted to ask you, you work with a bunch of clients. I know a few of them. Personally, I'd love to hear kind of the direction that you're hearing the market heading in what seems to be hot, what is not. I know you drove a lot of the conversation around the outcomes era and then you got into performance TV and what that means with your other client. Like where are you seeing things heading over the next six to 12 months from where you sit in the space?
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Yeah, I do feel CTV performance and AI have been sort of the three key buzzwords for a year or two. The only one I would add that I'm seeing more and more is commerce. Obviously commerce media has been one of the fastest growing areas of digital advertising along with ctv. And I think Infilian acquiring Catalina is like a major moment in the industry that that was a big deal and it shows that their take is that like the future of DSPs and media buying will hinge on the ability to use AI to leverage commerce data to drive measurable transactions. I think also obviously that's sort of the positioning of critio. And you see they just got, they just inked a deal with OpenAI. You see like TTD waving their hands in that direction. So yeah, I think like we are in the outcome zero still. We are in this era of digital advertising that's totally predicated on the ability to drive and optimize measurable outcomes. But question is all like, how are you using AI to do that? How will you contend with the disruption to traditional media that LLMs are facilitating? And then also what is your edge within that landscape? And that's where maybe you get into like the commerce data or the CTV specific chops that we, we were referencing.
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What are you mostly looking forward to, Joe? I know, I know you've been, have you been in business two years now? Three years?
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Four actually.
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God, has it been four? Yeah. I remember seeing your first post like this guy's kind of cool. I'm going to follow him. What are you mostly looking forward to this year for you, yourself, your company? What are your goals? What are you. What are you trying to achieve?
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Yeah, our business has really transformed, as I said it was. It's so we have been in business for four and a half years, but it was really two years ago, about to your point, when the I settled on the executive evangelism model for communications and the business consequently took off. So we nearly tripled in size last year. We have over 20 clients, we're working with a lot of the biggest names in the space. And I think what I'm most excited about now is using that advantage and that sort of critical mass of clients and capital and attention to the point of what you and I do to, to mature the business right to just like now. It's not all about like growth for the sake of growth. It's about like getting great clients who are really aligned with our model and great people to serve them and just creating like a much stronger, more mature business. And so that's what I'm focused on. And certainly as I build more and more of a team around me being out there and practicing executive evangelism to its fullest extent, to model that for our clients and then see how we can deploy it for them is the objective.
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Awesome. Joe, thank you for joining me today, man. This was a great combo. I'm a fan of what you do. I think you've done a fantastic job and I love that you live what you preach. So I think it's a fantastic, fantastic strategy.
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Totally. I really appreciate it. And obviously architecture is super reflective of the our worldview as well, especially with what you, Jeremy and Ari are doing, so great to be on and the book with everything.
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Thank you. Joe, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech Godpod, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates. You'll follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget ATG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of adtech innovation.