Ep. 140 Every Visitor Counts: Lori Tavoularis on AI, Agents, and Publisher Monetization

Summary

AdTechGod Pod Ep. 140 Summary

Episode Title: Every Visitor Counts: Lori Tavoularis on AI, Agents, and Publisher Monetization
Host: AdTechGod (The AdTech God)
Guest: Lori Tavoularis, President & Chief Revenue Officer, Moolah
Release Date: June 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Lori Tavoularis, an experienced leader in adtech and publishing, who discusses the evolution of publisher monetization in the age of AI, the challenges and creativity inherent in startup life, the realities of agentic technology, and her experiences as a woman leader in a male-dominated industry. The conversation dives deep on Moolah's AI-driven approach to maximizing publisher revenue, industry AI hype versus real business value, and the importance of leadership representation and cultural support.

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Guest Background & Career Journey

• Lori’s path to Moolah ([02:04]):

  • 26 years in publishing and revenue ops, starting at Clear Channel (pre-iHeart), then Tribune, Rakuten, Nexstar.
  • “I've always been on the revenue, operations and sales side... Moolah felt very publisher first.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [02:11]
  • Pivoted after layoff to consulting, then joined Moolah as one of 5 team members at the growing AI monetization startup.

• Big company to startup transition ([03:15–06:19]):

  • Appreciation for infrastructure at previous companies, but enjoys “doing everything” at a startup — from writing contracts to sales calls.
  • “When they say you do everything, you do everything... It's a muscle I haven't had before and I'm enjoying developing it.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [03:31]
  • The challenge: not enough hours in the day, juggling strategy and execution.

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Moolah’s Core Product & Market

• What is Moolah? Who are the clients? ([06:22–07:36])

  • AI-driven monetization platform for all types of media companies — current focus on sports and lifestyle publishers.
  • “Our agents are taking a look at many factors in the page and offering up the right monetization opportunity... It could be commerce, it could be social video, it could be native.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [06:35]
  • Main goals: Maximize revenue per session, keep users engaged and on page.

• How does the integration work? ([07:36–08:09])

  • Similar in integration to Taboola but with more controls; supports native, next article, and subscription placements.
  • Helps publishers drive more engagement, increase pages per session, and identify which monetization is best per visitor.

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Rethinking the User Experience

• Improving on legacy web monetization ([09:23–11:20])

  • The host critiques poor, irrelevant ads on traditional major sites (“toefungus ads and belly fat ads”).
  • Lori describes Moolah’s more contextually relevant, high-value approach:
    • Brings in commerce/affiliate (which publishers often lack resources for),
    • Integrates publishers’ own video content,
    • Surfaces newsletters/subscription asks and uses a highly effective next-article recommendation engine.
    • “On news sites... we’re getting anywhere from a 12 to 15% click through rate, which is more pages.”
      — Lori Tavoularis [11:11]

• Contextual commerce at work ([11:20–12:06])

  • Example: If you're on a Michigan Wolverines page, you see gear for that school. “That's wildly successful for them.”

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Deep Dive: AI and Agentic Monetization

• How Moolah leverages AI ([12:41–13:36])

  • Agentic platform continuously learns and AB tests to optimize per-user monetization flow in a session—beyond just CPMs or static units.
  • “It’s not looking at this one ad unit... It's looking at the user and figuring out which way you can make the most money in that user session... the compounding intelligence of AI.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [12:58]

• AI buzz vs. real business value ([16:44–17:53])

  • Lori discusses “AI fatigue” in the market; stresses the focus on solving business problems, not selling buzzwords.
  • She predicts a split in the market: genuine tools that drive efficiency will break from flashy tech that fails to solve real problems.
  • “Is it just because it's cool and it's AI, or is it really solving a true business problem for someone? ...I see it being a tool that can allow people to... move the needle as opposed to... administrative work.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [17:15]

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Innovation: Beyond Web—CTV and Newsletters

• Expanding to CTV and more ([13:55–16:16])
  • Testing with CTV products—contextually aware “pause ads” and “shop the look” features, where agents recommend products based on what’s on screen.
  • “You watch Yellowstone. Rip has a Carhartt jacket on; the ad afterwards is shop the look for Rip’s jacket.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [15:34]
  • Also looking at monetizing newsletters; adapting agentic methodology to new environments.

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Reflections on Work, AI Adoption, and Culture

• Real talk: Using generative AI for productivity ([17:53–19:44])
  • Both host and guest admit to using Gemini and other AIs for research, prep, and copy.
  • Importance of being intentional and transparent about how and where AI is used in the organization.
  • “I do think... everyone... should be aligned on where we’re using AI, how we’re using AI. I think it should be, you know, a structured effort. Not just using it, to use it.”
    — Lori Tavoularis [19:18]

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Gender, Leadership, and Work-Life Balance

• Being a woman in adtech and revenue leadership ([20:25–24:56])
  • The host highlights a focus on interviewing women leaders and raises the topic of challenges in the male-dominated tech and advertising industries.
  • Lori shares:
    • The landscape has changed—more women leaders, but still challenges.
    • Lack of mentorship due to limited female leadership historically.
    • Work-life balance, especially as a single mom, was a real challenge.
    • Much of the pressure was both cultural and internalized (“corporately conditioned”).
    • “We want to make sure that we’re not the one that’s getting laid off. We want to make sure that we're the one that’s towing the corporate line. So we almost become apologetic.”
      — Lori Tavoularis [23:49]
  • The host echoes feelings of guilt about “stepping out” during work hours even for positive reasons, identifying this as part of broader corporate culture problems.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On startup life:
  “When they say you do everything, you do everything.” — Lori Tavoularis [03:31]

• On publisher pain points:
  “How do I get the users deeper? How do I get them to consume one more page of content?” — Lori Tavoularis [08:51]

• On AI & fatigue:
  “I’m already feeling some fatigue in markets in AI... I tend to not really talk about the AI component because I'm trying to solve a business problem.” — Lori Tavoularis [16:44]

• On gender and leadership:
  “There’s a lot more female leadership than when I was younger... Not enough female leadership for me to have as mentors.” — Lori Tavoularis [20:25]
  “I think what can’t be understated is also being a mom. Balancing your family and your work life, which I didn’t for a very long time.” — Lori Tavoularis [21:05]

• On work-life guilt:
  “I'm corporately conditioned. I still tell Josh if I'm going to be gone for 30 minutes and he's like, please stop telling me... it’s a guilty thing, like you said.” — Lori Tavoularis [24:40]

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• Guest intro, background: [01:10–02:58]
• Startup vs. big orgs: [03:15–06:19]
• Moolah product deep dive: [06:22–12:06]
• AI in monetization: [12:41–13:36]
• CTV & next-phase innovation: [13:55–16:19]
• Industry AI fatigue: [16:44–17:53]
• Generative AI usage & workplace transparency: [17:53–19:44]
• Gender, leadership, work-life balance: [20:25–24:56]

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Takeaways

• Moolah is building a flexible, AI-powered monetization platform focused on maximizing value for every site visitor, leveraging agentic intelligence beyond static ad units.
• AI in adtech is at a crossroads: real solutions will outlast the “agentic” hype, but business impact must come first.
• Culture matters: Corporate expectations, particularly for women and working parents, have lasting impacts, highlighting the importance of mentorship, representation, and empathy.
• The future: Next-generation adtech will blend contextual insight, seamless commerce, and platform-agnostic intelligence to drive publisher success.

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A must-listen for anyone interested in the future of publisher monetization, real-world AI applications, and authentic leadership journeys in adtech.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by the Build, a new podcast from the guys behind Sincera, Michael Sullivan and Ian Myers. They built their company by figuring out clever solutions to a few important ad tech problems in our industry. That's exactly what the show is all about. Mike and Ian, interview some of the smartest tech minds in the biz to hear about how they identified opportunities, solved those hardest challenges, and grew their business in the process. Listen to the Build with Michael Sullivan wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

Welcome to the AdTech God Pod, your window into the world of advertising technology

[A]

and the people behind it.

[B]

I'm your host, AdTech God.

[A]

Welcome to the AdTech Pod, where we speak to the leaders of our industry. Today's guest is Lori Tavoularis, President and Chief Revenue Officer at Moolah. Laura has been at Moolah for approximately six months, but prior to that she worked at companies like nexstar Media Group, Rakuten, Tribune, and more. Just full disclosure, she is a friend of the podcast, but I am familiar with Moolah and love what they're building in the AI space. So, Laurie, thank you again for joining me. Welcome to the pod.

[C]

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I feel like I finally made it getting invited.

[A]

It's incredible because I've watched your, your journey at Moolah over the last few months and I'm familiar with you and we have a lot of mutual friends in this space. But I don't know much about your, like, background and where you come from. I just know that you're extremely sharp and intelligent. You, you know the industry inside and out. And so I thought you would be a great guest for the pod. So thank you again for joining me.

[C]

Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks, Lori.

[A]

I'd love to hear from you. You worked at nexstar, you worked at Tribune. We're not going to bring up the word Tron. Cause we're not bringing that up on this podcast. We're just going to call it Tribune. But I want to hear your background.

[C]

Way to fit it in.

[A]

I know, I know. We're like, don't mention it. I'm like, I'm mentioning it because it's like the worst rebrand ever. I'd love to hear, I'd love to hear your background and what kind of brought you to where you're at today, leading revenue for Moolah.

[C]

Sure. So for the past about 26 years, I've been on the publisher side. Actually, my first role in the industry was at Clear Channel pre Iheart way back in the Day and then went on to Tribune Publishing and I had a little brief time at Rakuten and then nextar. I've always been on the revenue, operations and sales side of the business and that brought me to Moolah. I got laid off about two and a half years ago. Was doing some consulting and then Jason came to me with this opportunity and I really loved what they were doing and felt it was very publisher first. So here I am.

[A]

It's really interesting to look at your background because you know, you worked at nexstar, you worked at Rakuten, you worked at Tribune, you're now working for a startup. How many people are you now?

[C]

I think five total.

[A]

Yeah, I mean you are, you are a startup for sure.

[C]

We are like you said, we're newbies. You know, we're six months in to me being here and not many months before that. So we are very new.

[A]

Can I ask you, Lori, like having worked at big companies prior with the structure and the processes and the legal teams, even just having like pre directed contracts, what's the experience been like going to a small, nimble startup for you?

[C]

Sure, it's been great. Actually. I think that yes, I'm very accustomed to structure resources, having things already in place, but also at all at both nexstar and Tribune, you know, we did build out digital teams there, you know, so kind of building in the infrastructure of a large company a new division or a new working group. So I have a little bit of that. But yeah, it's, it's very different when they say you do everything, you do everything, you know, you're, you're writing contracts, you're doing all these other things that you kind of take for granted having in place. I think it's, it's, it's a muscle I haven't had before and I'm enjoying developing it. I enjoy building business. You know, I'm a strategic person and so there's something I really love about that component of it. I think what it is, is for me, I get frustrated just because there's not enough time of the day.

[A]

Right. Do you always feel like you're behind,

[C]

you know, to do all the things? Yeah, I do. I always feel like I'm behind. I never apologize for a light calendar day. I never feel like, oh my God, there's nothing going on today. Because even if there are commercial calls that day or sales calls and things like that, there is so much strategically to do to build the business.

[A]

It's funny, I felt that way too. I think just recently we Got more people. And, you know, we're recording this the week of can and last year, the year prior, we did content. We're doing a lot more this year. But I could tell you, like, even just scaling the team has made me feel like, wow, we have structure, we have organization, we have people who can help with the lift. But last year, it was crazy. The turnaround, the amount of work. I always felt like I was constantly behind and failing. We got everything out on time. But at the same time, I'm like, this is. This is insane. Like, this is not normal. And suddenly with scaling the team, I'm like, wow, this is great. Like, there's a handoff process and a spot check process, right? And people can make sure the content is good and clean and everyone's tagged. Right. And it's produced correctly. And then we publish. And I kind of know what you're going through with the constant feeling of being behind, overwhelmed. And then, you know, doing everything from a dot and crossing a T to like, generating revenue for the company. It's a lot.

[C]

Yeah. It's exciting though. I think it's. It's a really good exercise for me. But yeah, you. You don't get to say who's supposed to be doing that, because 99% of the time, if it's not coding or something else, it's. It's me or Josh or Logan, you know, it's you. Not a lot to go around.

[A]

It's incredible.

[C]

It's a really good time.

[A]

You are chief Revenue Officer. You are driving revenue. What does that look like for Moolah? What are you bringing to market? Who's your client? Like, what's your client look like? Who are you working for within the space and just gives us an idea of what your product is in market?

[C]

Yeah, sure. So our, our main clients are media companies of every type. Most of our existing clients right now are endemic in some way, either sports or lifestyle. But we're an AI monetization platform, and what we're doing is we're optimizing the revenue per session for publishers. Our agents are taking a look at many factors in the page and offering up the right monetization opportunity in that moment. And it could be commerce, it could be social video, it could be native. So basically what it's doing is it's telling you this person's intent and what's best to serve to them and making more money overall for the publisher.

[A]

Can you explain that to me more for people that aren't listening? So you have, is it an ad unit that you currently place on websites to help them monetize better. Is this like a Taboola like product or how does it actually integrate into the website itself?

[C]

It does sit in the same native space that a Taboola or a Taboola like partner would sit in. We also do next article, we're also doing subscriptions. So basically we're giving the publishers more control over how they're driving revenue in their business in that native space on their sites.

[A]

Okay, so you are trying to retain the user on page and make more

[C]

money, deeper engagement, more, more time spent on page, more revenue per session.

[A]

I guess with that because we all sort of know that the open web is declining and we know that a lot of traffic for these websites are going towards ChatGPT. They're getting answers instead of searches. Are you finding that publishers are open to this and are interested in trying to create more revenue or have they kind of shifted that focus towards like geo optimization and optimizing content for the LLMs?

[C]

No, they are, they are open to this. It's kind of a make more with who you already have type of play to drive people to either a next click to another article or deeper in the page. They're very open to it. Right now everybody's thinking about how AI works for them right on all sides of the business. And so I think, you know, people are thinking about ways that they can improve their business overall, not just an ad unit. How do I get the users deeper? How do I get them to consume one more page of content? How do I keep them in a longer scroll on mobile we look like a social scroll. How do I get them deeper and further and how do I make more money intelligently in that session?

[A]

It's crazy because I haven't worked in web publishing for quite some time. I guess prior to becoming the deity of digital or whatever I am today, it was like heavily focused on connected television. And so when I look at web and when I look at mobile app, I look at it as a opportunity to improve things because I still obviously visit the web but the user experience is really bad. Like there's, there's been major publishers I've gone to where I'm like really shocked that a. I mean I'll say it, that like a CNN or like a Fox News or like a major news source in the industry has like tofungus ads and like belly fat ads and I'm like this is like horrible. It's a not relevant to me because I have a eight pack and I'm totally Shredded and B, I don't have toe fungus. And so for me I'm like, why are you even showing me this ad? It's just to catch my attention for trash, it's garbage. And so like are the ads that you bring in and like I guess the suggestion engine and the content that you bring different than what others in the space are doing?

[C]

Yes, absolutely. One, we are bringing commerce and affiliate opportunities to publishers that tend to be difficult for them to manage, not have the resources for. And so that's one opportunity that we're bringing that we're noticing a lot of our clients didn't have previously. And then we're working with some native partners. Some of our partners actually run their own ad tags in there, their own supply in there, especially if there's areas that they're sold out. We're repurposing vertical video social content from the publishers. So they're getting kind of a second crack at it. We're offering up subscription and newsletter signups and we're also doing a very intelligent next article. So that on news sites has been getting anywhere from a 12 to 15% click through rate, which is more pages,

[A]

you know when you say I guess commerce in particular is it. They're able to shop directly from the site now. So and then how, how are you recommending those things? You have AI in your name and then I know that you said that you crawl contextually. So are you suggesting like sports memorabilia and jerseys and hats while they're watching?

[C]

That's one of the easiest ones.

[A]

Okay, that is the easiest ones.

[C]

No, one of our larger partners is on three, which is college know sports network and so that's, that's the easiest use case there is. You're on a Michigan page, you get fed Wolverines gear and that's wildly successful for them.

[A]

Okay, that sounds pretty amazing. With AI in your name and with the amount of like AI solutions in market, where do you think things are heading this year? Because everyone's at can right now. Yeah, I would say like three quarters of the press releases that are going out on my newsletter, this would have been last Thursday, which I just drafted, are all AI and they're all agentic. Like every press release is there. It's pretty insane how much AI is hitting the market. But what exactly are you guys doing around AI and what I guess value and how are you leveraging that to improve your product?

[C]

Sure. Yeah. So we are a gentech and we have handful of agents that scan for intent, scan for content and the biggest benefit that we're seeing with how our platform works is the compounding intelligence of AI that those agents are constantly learning, they're constantly AB testing and they're always. They're using all of those learnings to put the right monetization in front of that specific user. They're not doing CPM on the impression level. Right. We're not looking at this one ad unit on a page. It's looking at the user and figuring out which way you can make the most money in that user session. And so it's really incredible to watch how accurate and effective it is.

[A]

What's next for you guys as you continue to build out? You. You mentioned you were like a handful of people. Are you funded? Are you not funded? You are funded. And what's like the. Yeah, what's the next stage for you in terms of the company, in terms of growth and new products or mediums that you're bringing to market?

[C]

Sure. Right now we've been doing some testing with a handful of partners and some CTV products. So CTV for us obviously looks very different than our web. We can also monetize in newsletters as well. So we've been really kind of putting that together and making sure that that is working for everyone. We did some testing and so we're working with that. And then ctv, we are doing some testing with pause ads and some different units that our agents actually consume the content and then create the experience based off of what's going on in the content. Shut the Look.

[A]

I mean, look, it's web is web and we all love the web, God bless it, as it continues to chug along. But like, CTV is really here.

[C]

It's still here.

[A]

It's still massive. I mean, it's like the thing is, nobody talks about anything but connected television. That's I think, a big problem. Like I interview people in mobile and then you hear the numbers and you're like, this is insane. All we talk about is ctv, but the mobile world is gigantic and it dwarfs the streaming world. Yet all you ever see is ctv. Ctv. But what. What are you bringing to the market in ctv? Do you contextually crawl the content and then serve an ad in the. I guess the ad break. Is that how it's done?

[C]

They do, yes. It does crawl out the content and some of the concepts. This is still conceptual as we're working it out with our partners. But, you know, some of it is, I guess, good example is you watch Yellowstone. RIP has a Carhartt jacket on the ad. Afterwards is shop the look for Rips

[A]

jacket Okay, that's kind of cool.

[C]

Yeah, it's very cool.

[A]

Way more relevant than, like when I get the Flintstones, you know, vitamin ad with a QR code.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I mean, I guess. I guess if I'm watching a show and I like the outfit or the product, so that's.

[C]

It could be shot the scene. You know, it could be a. We're kind of playing around with how. How specific does someone want this to be? Do you want it to be exactly what Rip was wearing in that scene or do you want it to be more of a, you know, shop the look that has multiple types of products that are related? I think we could do it either way. Right. It's just a matter of what do you want, you know, so, yeah, that's definitely exciting stuff.

[A]

I guess. It's mass or niche.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. And it, it depends on the partner, you know, as well.

[A]

Where do you think things are heading, Lori, as it relates to AI agentic? A lot of it is there. Like, what do you think is the true opportunity? Just in the industry overall, not just your company, but in this space, where do you think the real opportunity is? What's buzz and what's like actual solid foundational tech?

[C]

So I think I'm already feeling some fatigue in markets and AI. And I will say that in my conversations with, you know, partners and potential customers, I tend to not really talk about the AI component of it because I'm trying to solve a business problem. And so I think what's going to happen is that's going to be a breaking point with some of, you know, some of the tech. Is it just because it's cool and it's AI, or is it really solving a true business problem for someone? And I think that that's going to be a thing. I will say I can see a lot of applications for AI in revenue, operations, teams and sales organizations. I use it a ton. We were talking before the POD for prep, for calls, for follow up, for, you know, mockups and things like that. And it's just efficiency, you know, So I see it being a tool that can allow people to go back to doing the tasks that really drive revenue and move the needle as opposed to, you know, administrative work.

[A]

It's funny because you actually confessed to me that you didn't listen to my podcast and that you use Gemini to figure out what the format of my podcast is. I'm not sure whether I'm like, impressed or whether I'm a little bit heartbroken by it all, but no, I didn't.

[C]

I Didn't say. I've never listened. I used Gemini to find the flow and pull possible questions from your podcast.

[A]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell the team we could have had one more listener, but they just use Gemini to crawl my content instead.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, but, you know, we won't tell them that.

[B]

It is.

[C]

It's. It's a really great tool for those things, you know, It.

[A]

It is. It. It. I use it all the time. I mean, we use it all the time. My prompts have gotten better and better. I have, like, standardized prompts that I use for content, for summaries, for socials, for everything, particular tones and styles. And I actually have a lot of, like, you know, projects, as I call them. I have. Each one has a different tone. Each one is for a different product because it's almost impossible to be able to post on behalf of, like, architecture, ad tech, God, the advertising forum, the refresh. Everything has a style and a tone, and so I actually use it to stay consistent in my tone. So it's one person doing five or six people's, I guess, style, but it's all kind of coming out of my. My fingertips.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then I read it, and I make sure it's aligned. I make edits and then I publish. But it's pretty powerful.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's great. It's. It's. I. I do think, though, as we get into this world in our industry and. And really everywhere is, you know, I think everyone internally at some of these, you know, at your media companies or wherever should be aligned on where we're using AI, how we're using AI. You know, I. I think it should be, you know, a structured effort. Right. Not just using it, to use it.

[A]

Couple questions for you. I interview a lot of women on the space. It's, as I mentioned to you, like, it's a focus of mine. Unfortunately, I've had, like, five men in a row, but that's fine. Like, overall, it just happened. I had a couple people cancel on me. So for the women who canceled on me, thanks. Thanks for. For ruining my streak. I wanted to ask you, like, you are a revenue driver. You've been chief business officer. You're chief revenue officer. You're really money focused and commercial focused. How has that been, being a woman in the advertising space? And I guess more than anything in, like, the tech space, where it is predominantly male, how does that impact the way you work with people? What are some of the challenges? What are some of the opportunities there?

[C]

Sure. Yeah. It's it has changed a lot in my tenure, obviously. And I do think there's a lot more female leadership than there was when I was younger and first coming up in the business. They're challenges if you allow them to be challenges, I guess is the way I would answer that. It is difficult sometimes. I think that it used to be a lot worse than it is today. I think I'm kind of built for it. So that's another thing. I probably veer a little more towards like the type of energy that, you know, a male dominated world brings. So that I think is helpful. But I think for me, what was frustrating coming up is not enough female leadership for me to have as mentors. Just not enough. And I think what can't be understated is also being a mom. Right. You know, balancing your family and your work life, which I didn't for a very long time. I did not. And, and those things, and I think those were the bigger challenges when my kids were little is having male bosses that maybe didn't have the empathy for me having a two year old and things like that.

[A]

You know, that's crazy because I know that like our culture at architecture is very much so casual and like family supportive. So I'm, I'm not a single father, but I do have kids and I'm very involved in everything they do. And you know, we do have people who have young children at Market Icture and it's like, hey, I gotta do pickup. It's like, you don't have to tell me you're doing pickup. I already know you're doing pickup. Like you're fine. I already, I already have you blocked out at this time window. Like, don't worry about it. Just, you know, when you get back, let us know. So it's like almost like the supportive piece of it is important.

[C]

Oh yeah, no, that's not been my experience.

[A]

And no, that was. No, I know, I know, I know it's so bad. It's like, it's tough. I've spoken to a lot of women on the podcast. They've all told me like, being a really good mother and being a really good executive is very hard to do because they both are such a huge commitment.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think I have done that both well in until this role probably, honestly, you know, and I'm, you know, you know me, I'm also a single mother. So the, the travel, the grind, the big teams, the, like you said, you know, you guys are casual. Most of my corporate culture was not. And so the Expectation of being present constantly and not going to your kids volleyball game or going to wherever. That's kind of most of my career, you know. And I think the best thing for me is to acknowledge what part of that is really corporate culture and what part of that was me.

[A]

It's actually a really good question.

[C]

What part of that was me feeling like that was what was being put upon me and what part of it was real? Because when you see that as your culture, whether it's perceived or real, especially women, we work harder, right? We, we want to make sure that we're not the one that's getting laid off. We want to make sure that we're the one that's towing the corporate line. So we almost become apologetic, I mean

[A]

even for, for women or not a woman. But like there's there's also like this sense of like self perceived guilt, I guess. Like, yes. Do I feel bad that I'm leaving for an hour to go grab lunch or a coffee with a friend, when in reality I know that I work 12 hours a day, but then I feel kind of bad that I'm at an office and miss the slack, like does it really matter or, or is it totally okay? Because I know I'm always connected anyway. And then I sometimes feel bad, like, oh God, I'm out of the office for an hour. Like I should have been there, but same time it's like, well, I'm always dialed in and connected. So I think some of it might be self perceived. But I also do think that there's a lot of companies that just don't support people. I think that is like a bad culture.

[C]

Yeah, no, it, it's both. And I'm corporately conditioned. I still tell Josh if I'm going to be gone for 30 minutes and he's like, please stop telling me that you're, you're not going to be around at noon. But I do. It's a, and it's a guilt, it's a guilty thing, like you said.

[A]

Totally. And Lori, I, I, I did want to thank you and thank Jason and Josh for having you on, on the podcast. I know that I'm familiar with what you guys are building and how much hard work you put into it. I hope you guys crush it. I hope you guys do a fantastic job. And again, thank you for being my guest.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech Godpod, a podcast for

[A]

the people about the people.

[B]

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