AdTech God (6:20)

So that's every, that's everybody's goal. But I mean you have to be able to pivot quickly when you're, when you're a small, nimble startup, right? Like you're seeing opportunity to generate revenue and cover payroll, you're seeing trends that move really quickly. And I think that's one of the big advantages of being a startup is, you know, being able to pivot and see the opportunity. And then one of the disadvantages is like you said, you know, there's not a lot of cash on hand. So there are times where you know, you pivots the wrong pivot, that's not good. You have a client that doesn't pay, that's not good. So you, you can't really hold out long term, but you definitely learn a ton. And it sounds like you learned a ton Just from buying social to really, you know, buying all types of media across the board.

Jeremy Sunny (7:02)

Yeah, yeah, that's actually been like, I think one of my like big secret advantages, right? And so there's, there's this weird gap in the industry that I think that you're aware of, right, like between ad tech and then like agencies and then like the clients they actually work with, right? It's all very detached, which is kind of weird compared to like most of tech, right, where it's like very tightly integrated and everybody's talking to each other and iterating all the time and stuff like that. And then it's an interesting kind of problem there. But then there's another gap that I think is less talked about, which is basically like your social performance advertisers versus like your programmatic and legacy buyers are just two completely different audiences, right? They basically never talk to each other, right? And so it's been interesting, right, like as I've kind of traversed across the industry in a bunch of different roles, I mean, all on the buy side, right, or client side or agency or whatever, I've kind of gotten to see that. And you know, there's I think like a huge opportunity for people to collaborate and learn from each other a bit more because there's like, you know, lessons that can be broadly applied across all of these different contexts that I think would serve everybody really well. It's just those conversations aren't happening. So sometimes, like I said, I joke that I'm a Swiss army knife or something like that. But like the reality is that I'm just able to make some orthogonal connections here with how, oh, this is how meta buyers think about buying stuff, right? And this is how Google buyers or SEM search marketers think about buying stuff. And this is how programmatic buyers think about buying stuff. I'm like, can we bridge that gap? Can we find something in the middle, right, that like makes it work better for everybody? And so that's like, yeah, cross applying those has been like a big part of my career for sure. And I think where a lot of my like insights come from.

AdTech God (8:47)

Do you see, and I know you talk a lot about AI. Obviously company has AI in it. Do you see AI really being the thing that changes the buying industry? Do you think it's an add on? Do you think it's a standalone product? I have a lot of people on here that talk about AI. A lot of the DSPs are starting to launch AI functionality, but do you think that it's really going to be the One thing that's going to take us to the next level of automated buying and hitting those KPIs and targets that clients are looking for.

Jeremy Sunny (9:14)

Yes, but not right away is basically my answer. I think it's going to take longer than AI people think it will and I think it'll be faster than the anti AI or AI skeptical people think it will be. Right. So something in the middle, which is a very diplomatic answer. But the truth of the matter is this, right? There's going to be waves of this kind of like 1.0 and Web 2.0. And I guess the way that I'm looking at it is yes, AI is going to be extremely transformative and I think especially on the buy and sell side, like the more mechanical parts of the ads industry, I'm more skeptical that it's going to overtake ad creative. I think that humans are really good at that. But yeah, I think a lot of the button clicking and a lot of your rote tasks are going to go away. And generally a big fan of the co pilot like approach, if you will, when it comes to artificial intelligence. Right. I don't think humans are going to get replaced. But like could one senior buyer, instead of managing 10 juniors, have one other junior and then hey yeah, I absolutely think so. And to be clear, I don't see that as like replacing jobs or being some job apocalypse in like the ads industry. I think it's like more like freeing people up to do higher value human tasks. Right. Like focusing on creative, focusing on strategy, focusing on offers and you know, working on their best, highest sort of outputs. Right. Rather than just clicking more buttons in trade desk or whatever. Right. So yes, I'm generally quite bullish but I think there will be waves and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

AdTech God (10:51)

It's funny because you mentioned you don't think it'll replace the creativity side of things. I don't think it'll replace the creativity because I think creativity is, is really a really skillful thing. Like some of the people out there that the creative ideas that they come up with are there, the creative images that they do for, you know, display ads or video ads is pretty impressive. I see it more as an optimization tool. Like it's going to optimize the creative, maybe offer various types of creative that may perform better than the other, maybe duplicate the creative to customize it per, you know, user that it's targeting. I, I can't see it replacing the creative piece of it all. I think that's one of the things that I feel is pretty solid in the space that know creativity is creativity. It's not easy, it's very hard to get a robot or some sort of automation to, to create something from scratch all that relevant and relevant to you know, today and the feelings and the emotions and the buyer needs that are existent in the market. So yeah, I do see it as optimization, I do see it as efficiency that for sure. I think AI is going to change the industry quite a bit.

Jeremy Sunny (11:58)

You know, I, I do think where it's going to be like really disruptive is that AI kind of fundamentally shifts the ability to execute campaigns in a more like distributed way rather than a centralized way. So I think if AI is going to be a like existential threat if you will, right to the ad tech business model, it's going to be because the centralized big dsp, RTP midstream, I don't know is going to be as relevant because instead what you do is you have like AI sitting over top of a bunch of self serve platforms. Right. Or more skillfully moving budget between platforms and things like that. Right. So I think that like DSP is already, I don't want to say commodity because like you know, definitely Trade Desk, some of the others are doing like some really interesting things that set them apart. But I think there's downward pressure to be more commodity like for DSPs on the buy side and I think the AI is just going to accelerate that. So I actually think what Trade Desk is doing is quite smart with their open path right. Where they're connecting directly to publishers and stuff like that. I think that's incredibly smart. I think that's how they keep value. But yeah, I think you'll start to see more of that. We've seen a lot of horizontal consolidation in the industry. I think AI starts to push for vertical consolidation right. Where you know, because you don't need a centralized architecture as much. I think you're going to see more of a distributed architecture with like agentic AI especially. Right. As far as creative goes, like yes, I do think that like tweaking or personalization is going to be like a huge use case for like AI in the ad creative. But like I don't see at least in the near term a future where they're fully ideating creative ad campaigns or anything like that. Right. At most maybe it's like a pair with like a copywriter to like bounce ideas off of invalidate and stuff like that.

AdTech God (14:00)

Do you think AI will play a bigger role in stuff like you know, analytics and optimization rather than pure creation of creative.

Jeremy Sunny (14:09)

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Right. I think that like, what you'll start to see is like, you know, more of a. So performance marketer is actually really do this a lot already, right. Which is they'll launch many, many, many iterations of individual like ad creatives. Right. Like let Meta or Google basically sort out which one to what audience is performing the best. Right. And I think that you'll end up seeing something like that in the programmatic universe where, you know, you're going to have companies that do this like tweaking personalization optimization of ad creative towards, you know, individualized audiences. Right. Where it's like changing the ad creative like 10%, 20%. Right. Maybe changing like a specific call out of like, oh, what city you're in. Right. Or like what specific customer archetype you are, things like that. Right. But like, again, the core creative messaging, I don't see that going away from humans. If anything, I think actually humans are going to be more value for that sort of thing. And I'm bullish on the future of AI and advertising because, you know, candidly, I'm like, fairly certain that like, it's going to lead us to a creative renaissance. Right. When agencies are spending all their time, like doing micro optimizations of media buying and interpretation and pulling reports and trying to like, figure out what they all mean and LLMs can come in and help out a lot of that stuff. I think you're going to see people really focus on like, creative as the differentiator. And I think that's really cool. I think that's like getting the industry back to what you know, it does best.

AdTech God (15:41)

Yeah, I think, I think that all kind of goes back to the efficiency piece of it. It's. It's really like having a handy tool, you know, in front of you. You know, the same way a computer changed the efficiency of sending messages via an email and how much efficiency that drove and just communication across the board. I see AI really as that powerful tool. Like, I think it's going to reduce the time needed for everyone to do their work. It's going to give you tools and actions that you previously had to work on for four hours in Excel Document it'll calculate it and spit it out for you in two seconds. And yeah, I mean, hopefully that is the case. Like, hopefully this does create some sort of creative renaissance and we start to see how important creative plays a role in our industry. Because I'm starting to feel like creative has really taken a backseat and it's focused more around algorithms and delivering a particular KPI for a client rather than focusing on is this creative, really good and relevant to my audience. So I'm curious to see how it all plays a role over the next few years.

Jeremy Sunny (16:36)

Yeah, 100%, and I'm right there with you. I think at its best, AI, the total impact is probably, and I don't mean this to downplay, right. But the same level of impact that the Internet had generally. I view it as kind of that next technological shift and that's huge and that's extremely impactful. Right. But it's not going to change. I think the core of humanity and how we interact with one another and all of that, it's just like another massive shift in technology and we're all going to adapt and there's going to be some speed bumps. But yeah, my hope is this last iteration of tech. It feels like we've all been chained to our laptops. Right. We've become beholden to the tech platforms we use. Right. And I feel like AI at its best is like freeing us from that. Right. It's going to make tech work for humans instead of humans work for tech, which I'm really excited about.

AdTech God (17:33)

Yeah, I agree with you. I think we're looking at a few years of some really transformative changes in our space. I'm excited for it. I like AI. I think everybody's starting to embrace it and use it in some capacity. It'll be really interesting to see as, you know, more DSPs. I think Vyant released some AI functionality for buying and everybody else just seems to be doing something in relation to efficiency and campaign management and set up and creative. So it'll be interesting to see how things change over the next couple years.

Jeremy Sunny (18:04)

Yeah. And I think one of the first few winners of AI is definitely going to be like, established big platforms that have a lot of data that they can easily apply it to. Right. But then like the Internet itself, right. Like when you saw kind of the first wave of the Internet, like, oh, the big publishers, like, oh, let's just put our newspaper online, right. And get more distribution and all of that. Right. And that did basically help the established players right out of the gate. Right. But over time, people figured out how to actually use this new technology in ways we weren't anticipating, like social networking and stuff like that. But I think AI will get there, but we just don't know what it looks like until, until we see it, you know. So I'm, I'm curious to see the.

AdTech God (18:50)

Direction that it goes, okay, we're going to, we're going to shift out of AI now. We're going to talk about something that's I think will be a little fun too. I usually ask people, you know, what keeps you up in regards to the industry? So I want to ask you, like, what really bugs you about the industry? What keeps you up at night? What, what is a frustration that you see? Because there are a few things that come up. But I'd love to hear your perspective on that too.

Jeremy Sunny (19:12)

Oh gosh. How many hours do we have to do this? Okay. I don't know if I could. I don't know if that would be enough time. I have a lot of problems with the ad tech industry. Right. I, I jokingly named my newsletter, like my email newsletter, the Ad Tech Heretic. Right. But yeah, it's, I have a lot of issues with the way that the industry works. Right. I think my single biggest issue, if I had to narrow it down to just one thing, I am a staunch believer that like SMBs are massively overlooked in this industry, that SMBs are commanding an increasingly large percentage of the ad spend because everything is shifting online, right. And shifting quite rapidly and performance brands are becoming increasingly relevant. I understand the challenges of working with those brands. I understand it deeply on a few levels on having been on both sides. Right. But like I really wish, you know, I, I one day hope for the world where somebody can go and sign up for a DSP and slap down a credit card and just get started. Right. Like, so I think that you know, this very old school enterprise y way of selling and servicing customers and all of that, it makes sense on like a lot of levels. I get it. But I wish it wasn't that way. The biggest thing that bugs me is yeah, I really wish it was like an even playing field for people to have access to tools and inventory and all of that to be able to compete with the big brands on a more equitable sort of marketplace, if you will. Right.

AdTech God (21:04)

So it's funny you, you mentioned that cause last week as part of our, one of, one of my sponsors for both the event that we had in New York, which is basis as well as some announcements that were made last week, also a sponsor which I have to disclose which was Vibe, like they seem to really target that mid to long tail small and medium business size clients. So it's, it's nice to see that some of the platforms out in the market are starting to address it and realize that there is an opportunity for, you know, the mechanic Shop and the bakery to be able to simply buy media and target the zip codes or DMAs that they're looking for to drive the engagement. Which is where I think Google has really dominated because they've made it relatively easy for anyone to, you know, put a credit card on file, run a $300 campaign and call it a day and see if it backs out to something. And so it's nice to see that media buying across the entire space is starting to kind of change and address those markets. Both of those companies I mentioned seem to be focusing on that. I know that you focused on that in the past as well. So it's good to know that we're starting to see that it doesn't have to be a multibillion dollar corporation spending money on a dsp. It can be a mom and pop shop with a thousand dollar budget and a credit card.

Jeremy Sunny (22:16)

Yeah. And I think that not to. I know we moved past AI, but yeah, I see that as one of like the early use cases. Right. Like, oh, what's a pmp? Ooh, should I use iis? What is ias? Fraud? Ooh, that's scary. Like all of that sort of stuff. Right. You know, I think that AI, whether it lives on the agency side or the advertiser side or the platform side or the pub site or whatever. Right. It probably will be. Some smattering of all of the above will help these SMBs actually navigate this. Right. Will alleviate the support burden that so many platforms are afraid of taking on by taking on SMB clients. And I think it will. Yeah. I'm really hopeful that that's part of the reason I'm focused on AI in my career is. Yeah. I think that it has the ability to make this whole thing be like a more functional marketplace and service retail in a meaningful way that, you know, downstream is quite disruptive. Right. Like when everybody has access to the same tools. I don't know if it is a given that like your giant CPG holding companies or whatever are as dominant when everybody kind of has equal firepower, if you will, to get their offer into the market. I think it becomes more meritocratic for brands and SMBs and I think that's better for consumers too and publishers. Candidly. I think it's really interesting. I'm bullish on it. I'm hopeful we'll see. Maybe it's just a cope, maybe it's just my dream, but I'm hopeful.

AdTech God (23:46)

It's funny because we'll go back to AI because I don't mind talking about it. I think the simplicity of use will help quite a bit in tapping that SMB market because you know, to you and I like logging into the trade desk, logging into a beeswax account, logging into basis. We already have a good understanding if you've used the DSP at some point in your career, like you can log in, take a look. Maybe buttons are a little different, maybe targeting features are different, the dropdowns are a little different. But we understand every aspect of what's being offered to us. But for small, medium sized businesses, like it's very hard for them to understand what all these metrics mean, what inventory quality means to them. They're just buying media online. And so I think AI will make it a lot easier, you know, upload your logo, it spits out some kind of simple creative that can be utilized. Where are you targeting? Is there an audience type that you like? Here we go. We've matched an audience type. What's your budget? Click Live. It's live. Here's your report. Congratulations. Like, you want people to walk into your store, you want people to buy the product from your online or e commerce store, or are you looking for just like branding? It's going to simplify it quite a bit, which is where I think like social has moved towards where it's pretty easy to use Instagram and run ads. Like it really takes just a credit card and anyone can do it. Lookalike, audience, target. Okay, you want profile views, great. You want followers, great. Here you go, you're done. So it'll be interesting to see how SMBs start to get access to buying media in a much more simple manner.

Jeremy Sunny (25:18)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's like the interesting part of AI, right? Because like I get why all of these like extremely advanced enterprise features are prioritized right inside of any dsp. But if you can add that AI layer on top so you have maximal functionality available, anybody can go as deep as they want. Right. But like the default experience is working with the AI to set up like a quote unquote smart campaign or whatever. Right. I think that's going to be like absolutely transformative. And the faster that the rest of ad tech that isn't social or search gets on board, the better they're going to do unlocking those audiences because they're hungry. Like these, these performance brands are hungry to have any option besides just Google Meta. Google meta over and over. Right. Like, and I think that that's healthy. Having that healthy competition will be extremely powerful, not just for publishers, but for Advertisers, brands, agencies, and of course, the end consumer that are actually seeing the ad. So.

AdTech God (26:19)

So just take me to my last question, Jeremy. It's. It's a different one. Are there any brands that have your loyalty? Is there a brand out there that you. You can't live without? I'd love to hear what it is. And, and why is it okay if.

Jeremy Sunny (26:32)

I answer with like 2 or 3 here? Because it basically comes down to product quality. For me, to be totally honest, it's not so much like the advertising or the branding. I'm not like, seduced by, like, I don't know, cool lifestyle stuff or whatever. Maybe I'm jaded because I work in the industry and I see all the little tricks and I'm just like, man, like a grumpy old guy. Like, I don't know. But yeah, so number one is Honda, because I treat my cars like absolute garbage. I ride them very, very hard. You know, I mean, I do basic maintenance and all that, but yeah, I'm. I take, like, pretty intense road trips. And man, like, my Honda cars have, like, always outlasted everything else. And like, I contrast that with, like, I bought a Volkswagen and it was nothing but nightmare fuel the entire time I owned it. And so, yeah, very, very brand loyal to Honda. I will consider a Toyota. And I don't even think I'll buy anything else. Maybe a Tesla if I had the money. But I'm poor, so I don't. But, yeah, it turns out being a startup founder and all that common stock, that's worth many millions of dollars. You don't get millions of dollars for that. Right. That's just what some VC wrote down in this Excel sheet, that it's quote unquote worth, you know, but yeah, so if one day I could afford a Tesla, maybe. But yeah, so Honda is number one. Number two, this is kind of a crazy one, but sorrel boots, those things are like the most comfortable, highest quality boots I have ever owned in my entire life. So I think I may have meant. I haven't mentioned it on this podcast, so I'll mention it. I spent like two years doing the backpacking thing on the road with my family, and I live all over the US as well as in Central America and Europe. You know, is me, my wife and, you know, my son started off at 18 months old, and by the time we were done, he was over three. So it's kind of cool experience getting to do that. We're actually on the Today show for it being highlighted as like a Digital nomad family thing. Did a lot of hiking, a lot of outdoor stuff, right? Sorel boots, man, those things. Comfy, waterproof, like, extreme high quality. I would not go with anything else for sure. And then Mazzetta. Mazzetta, the cpg, like the pasta sauces and they do, you know, like the pickled banana peppers and olives and stuff. Like, I am very weird about ingredients probably because again, on that trip, like, I lived in, like, I spent like a good couple of months in Ital, stuff like that. I started to get extremely strong opinions about ingredient quality. And at least in the US that is the. The best that I can find that's generally available in the stores. So, yeah, Mazza, I'm very brand loyal to Mazzetta also. And again, it all just comes back to, like, quality of the product, right? So I'm, I'm. I don't know. I guess that's a boring answer for an advertising guy because I'm not like, ooh, Nike is so cool, or whatever. But, like, yeah, for me, it's all about, like, kind of product quality and like, reliability and stuff and so. All about that.

AdTech God (29:47)

Awesome. Well, Jeremy, that. That brings us to the. To the end of the podcast. I. I really want to thank you for being here and thank you for taking time out of your day.

Jeremy Sunny (29:54)

Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm just honored that anybody wants to listen to me ramble. So.

AdTech God (29:59)

I do, I do. I enjoy it. Jeremy, I appreciate you and I appreciate you being here today.

Jeremy Sunny (30:05)

Appreciate you. Thank you so much.

AdTech God (30:08)

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech Godpod, a podcast for the people about the people that make adtech great. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on our latest updates, so follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget, ATG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of adtech innovation.