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- [00:00]
Ari Paparo
This podcast is brought to you by Dan Ads. This is Ari Paparo. Did you miss out on the incredible Dan Ads Summit in New York? The event brought together over 180 ad tech experts to tackle the biggest challenges and opportunities facing our industry. Today. I had the honor of kicking off the day with a keynote presentation on the current state of the advertising landscape. Want to hear my insights and predictions for the future? You're in luck. Recordings from the Dan adsubbets are being released and you can catch my keynote right now. Head over to the Dan Ads website at danads.com and find it under webinars. In other exciting news, Danads is already planning their next summit. If you'd like to sponsor the event or even be a speaker, registrations are now open, so check it out@danads.com this.
- [00:43]
Ana Bagger
Episode is brought to you by Indeed. We're driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs More visibility@ Indeed.com SBO terms and conditions apply.
- [01:11]
Ad Tech Go
Welcome to the Ad Tech Godpod, your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your Host, Ad Tech Go. Welcome to the AdTech Dog Pod your go to for conversations with the out of home industry leaders. Today we're joined by Ana Bagger, President and CEO of the out of Home Advertising association of America, better known as the oaa. The O Triple A is a trade association for the US OOH advertising industry, setting industry standards and promoting the value of OOH advertising. They also provide research, resources and more to the OO community. Anna, I'm really excited to have you here. Welcome to the Ad Tech godpod.
- [01:58]
Ana Bagger
Thank you so much. I am super excited to be here too. Thanks for having me.
- [02:02]
Ad Tech Go
I'm excited. I'm excited for ooh and I'll tell you why. Like all I hear is digital, streaming, streaming digital. And so I think for something new, I think this is really interesting for me as well as the listeners to learn more about how OH is changing the trends and of course to learn more about you.
- [02:20]
Ana Bagger
I'm excited that you are excited. We're excited too. There's we have a lot going for us right now. So very glad to be here and to be able to provide that update.
- [02:27]
Ad Tech Go
Ana, I know that you worked at the IAB you worked at Ericsson. Can you just give the listeners a little bit of a background of how you got to where you are today as the president, CEO, and we'll start there and then we'll kind of talk a little bit more about the, ooh, industry overall.
- [02:41]
Ana Bagger
Yeah, absolutely. Happy to. The story has been told before, but hopefully there's a listener or two who hasn't heard it. I am Swedish, but I have a very kind of international background. Worked in many different countries, but did work most recently before I moved to the US, which I did about 16 years ago. I worked for the Swedish telecoms company Ericsson, network equipment vendor. And before that I was an industry analyst and I'd worked on the kind of mobile, telephony, mobile equipment side. So background in telecoms. Moved to the US around, I think, 2008, 2009. We were just here with my husband, had a. Had an expat contract and I was on maternity leave, which is very long and generous in Sweden. So it gave us an opportunity to leave the country for a little while, but we ended up liking it here and I ended up deciding that I wanted to work. And we're sort of looking for jobs in the telecoms industry where, you know, I had. I had a name for myself and I knew what I was doing, but somehow, through LinkedIn, stumbled on IB and through that connection met with Randall Rothenberg in a very decent way, fell in love with him and his idea and what the IB did, I thought it was fascinating. We don't really have trade associations in that way in Sweden or in Europe for that matter. And I thought both the standard setting and also the lobbying parts of what IB did were really, really interesting. And coming from the mobile industry, I kind of saw the need for it because the iPhone had just come out and the whole industry was changing. I mean, I was on the network side, but I saw that there's an opportunity for media and for advertising there. So some. I managed to convince Randall to hire me, even though I didn't really have a background in advertising. Also didn't have a background in American media. But I did it, I loved it. And I was with EEIB for almost 10 years and started off in mobile, ran all of their early mobile or initial mobile efforts, and then ended up leaning into and taking over or starting up their video efforts. And then eventually I ran all of the industry initiatives there. And as a little part of what the IB did and does on the industry initiative side was out of home. And I really liked it. I thought it was A fascinating part of advertising because it's so different. It's not really attached to media in that way. It's about location. And I thought that it was just a very powerful part of the advertising ecosystem that I was very fascinated by. And obviously there's a strong connection to mobile too, so I like that as well. And I battled with Randall quite a bit to have him keep doing the work that we did in out of Home because he didn't really see it as a fit, I think, of the overall IAB portfolio. So I sort of dabbled a little bit with digital out of Home. And along the way we're approached about the CEO position at the OAA that then had our previous CEO, she had announced that she was going to retire. So they reached out to me and said, this might be the good job for you. And I thought it was sort of serendipitous, you know, that I'd been so interested in. It kind of tied together all the things that I had worked with previously in my career. And the industry was super hot. It was 2019, everything going for itself. One thing it did, it didn't have all the privacy issues that we really were struggling with for the rest of media, brands, safety, things like that. So I also saw it a little bit as, I guess maybe an escape route from problems that I saw just getting bigger and bigger and working with just selling something rather than defending it. Little did I know that there was going to be a pandemic four months later and it was really going to be a struggle to promote out of home. But somehow I survived, the industry survived and here we are, stronger than ever.
- [06:14]
Ad Tech Go
Yeah, the O industry was. Was hit pretty hard just because everybody was at home. So sure, you know, a lot of budgets were pulled from, you know, out of home kind of ads and focus more towards, I guess, in home because everybody was home a lot more than normal. So whether it's, you know, streaming or whether it's mobile. So it's a very, very hard and had a really negative impact. I've spoken to multiple people from the OH industry and they've all told me it was tough.
- [06:37]
Ana Bagger
It was very tough. I will say a big part of out of Home to this day is very local. And it wasn't the whole country that was out of home. It was mostly the west coast and the East Coast. The middle of the country was still very much open. So we survived it, but on a national level. And I think also reputationally, the industry, it didn't take a hit reputationally, but there was not a lot of faith and out of home, you know, again in a pandemic. So it was hard times, but I would say we made good use of that time because the industry prior to that had a lot of promise in digital, but we hadn't really gotten started very late to the game, which is one of the reasons they brought me in. And I think the three years of not really being out of home gave the industry an opportunity to work together to develop a lot of new products that we now are seeing a lot of benefits with. So it was hard times, but we used it well, I think.
- [07:33]
Ad Tech Go
So, coming from working abroad and then moving to the US and I know it's been quite some time. How do you feel those learnings from working internationally and moving into the US Market? Do you feel that that helped you prepare for adapting to working in the US And I know it's been some time since you've been here, but that always interests me how international experience could be applied to working in the US and vice versa, because you bring a different maybe mindset way of doing business to another market.
- [08:02]
Ana Bagger
That's a very good question. I don't think anybody ever asked me that before, but I really like it. It's not easy, I'll say that. I mean, I was lucky in the sense that I had my whole life lived a very international and in many different countries. So I was kind of well versed in multicultural communications and just being, you know, more adherent to different cultures and how people. Because people don't operate. Everyone shares the same core, you know, needs and values for the most part, like Maslow, whatever, but we have different ways of expressing it. A business is done very differently in different kinds country. So I think it's most important that you listen, you take in and you learn and you try to adapt while not losing yourself, but really not just come in and bulldoze. And I think I was kind of well aware. And I'd also worked for American companies throughout my career prior to Ericsson, so I knew a little bit about how Americans are doing things, but it was. It's definitely different, but I think for me it's been a good fit. I think I like it here. And even though I certainly am in many ways very European and very Swedish, and therefore maybe not as I can be very direct yet I can be very introverted in certain senses. I think I've been able to use that to my advantage because I think it's more about, again, listening and trying to learn and adapt to how business is being done. And then of course, the US is just such a dynamic place when it comes to especially the industry we're in. So it's very hard not to get carried away and immersed into how things are being done here. And I think this was the best place to be. I think I adapted fairly quickly. But it's not easy. And it's not easy for Americans going abroad either. It's tough, but it's not as tough as you would think if you just take the time to listen in and figure out how, how people communicate.
- [09:56]
Ad Tech Go
I've spoken to a few people on the podcast and just personal friends who've either, you know, moved to the US or moved abroad. The learnings from doing so are like invaluable. Like, there's no way you can compare the experience of working in APAC or Europe or anywhere else. It's just such a different perspective on the world of business dealings, of transactional, you know, relationships or long term relationships. It's pretty incredible. And that's why I wanted to ask you, because to me, when I looked at your, your LinkedIn was like, oh, she moved to the U.S. she moved to the U.S. as an adult, right. Not as a child. So it's not like you were 4 years old. And I don't remember ever living abroad. No, you remember you have a long history there. It's just always interesting to see people's perspective of moving to the US or moving abroad and how that, you know, built who they are today. Right. Because I'm sure it's a huge part of your, your personality and the way you do work and the way you interact with people.
- [10:53]
Ana Bagger
It definitely has. And you know, it's been a journey, no pun intended, of moving here. But I do think, and it is fascinating doing business. I've done business, I think, in all continents except Australia. And it is very different. But you learn a lot from it. And to your point, it's invaluable. But the US is a very easy, welcoming place, or at least it used to be, to come to and start doing business. People never really ask you. They ask me, where are you from? And I say, I'm Swedish. And they're like, oh, okay. And what else are you? It's like, no, I'm actually just Swedish. I'm actually really Swedish. Oh, wow, really? And then that's just, you know, it's, it's really is a melting pot. So from that perspective, it was easy. But yeah, it's different. And everything is bigger here, right? Like the opportunity, the risk, the Everything, you just have to be.
- [11:39]
Ad Tech Go
Even the combo meals.
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Ana Bagger
Yeah, everything is bigger and you will also be a little bigger when you leave, I think.
- [11:45]
Ad Tech Go
But yeah, just the, the meal portions are, are, are huge here in, in comparison, pretty incredible. And you don't have to pay for ketchup.
- [11:52]
Ana Bagger
That is true. That's a benefit. And you get a lot of ice in your drink.
- [11:55]
Ad Tech Go
If we get a lot of ice. Yeah. And less soda. The out of home industry is, is growing specifically around digital out of home. We hear a lot about streaming television, Avod, Svod, hvods, but I personally don't hear much about the digital out of home industry with the exception of one or two industry friends. I'd love to hear, you know, from your perspective, how the industry is adapting, how the industry is evolving into a more digital out of home world and what that means for brands and advertisers.
- [12:28]
Ana Bagger
You probably don't hear so much about it because we are still a small part of advertising and like I said in the beginning, we're very different. You know, you're not buying an out of home ad based on the fact that you want to monetize or you're not selling an out of home ad because you want to monetize content and fund your media efforts. You are buying an out of home ad or selling an out of home ad because of the location the ad is in. The ad is the content. You know, it's surrounded by content, context and the location. But it's, it's very different. So it doesn't really fit in the industry in the same way. And I think that's part of it being a little bit on the side of the industry conversation. And you know, we're a small part of advertising. We're somewhere between 3 and 5% of ad spend. We are not the shiny object, even though I would argue we should be. But we're a steady going platform that's always been there, that now has a lot going for it. And I think we are in a sense the glue that ties all different platforms together. Because even though you don't hear much about it, you see it, you see it every day. And I would probably argue you probably pay attention to it, whether you're driving, you're in the subway, you're walking down the street, you're at an airport, you know, you're surrounded by our ads and people really pay attention to them. They don't see them as intrusive if they don't like them, they just don't really look at them. They're not interrupting anything, they're just kind of there and for the most part seen as a service and really highly appreciated in particular by young audiences and multicultural audiences. So just that in itself in a time while people are losing a lot of their faith in media, don't really like ads and are very polarized. You know, our ads are kind of just there, you know, in the middle of everything and therefore can be utilized with other channels that you hear more about.
- [14:13]
Ad Tech Go
I would think it's more brand safe. Like the likelihood of having a non brand safe ad on a billboard is pretty low because you're not associated with content. Right? It's location based.
- [14:23]
Ana Bagger
No, it's location. I mean, there has been a few incidents in history where a billboard has been hacked, but it's really complicated to do and very dangerous and you know, far and few in between. I mean, programmatic we have to pay attention because with the rise of digital it comes the rise of programmatic and then we just like everyone else, need to be able to control the content a little better. But for the most part we're very brand safe. And we are. You really know a lot about an ad and where it's going to show up by knowing just the location of it and the time of day and what's going on in the rest of the world. So yeah, we're brand safe. We're unskippable, we're unblockable and in general we're very well liked. So it's a medium that you know and always has been around since cave paintings. Right. Like it started way back when, when we started communicating with pictures and out of home. It's just kind of continued down that path. The difference now is that we are also digital and not every sign is digital. But we are converting very quickly and a lot of growth comes from that because by being able to have digital signage, you can flip out and switch out content much faster. You can also buy more snackable type of out of home before. You might want to buy a billboard and have it up for 30 days. Right? That's a great thing. You kind of create a landmark, people will see it, it will be repetitive, fantastic. But here you can go in at a specific point of day in front of a specific audience and just kind of sell them a message at that time. And digital has really kind of enabled that. It also has enabled us to use data in a much more interesting way. Right. Like just again, knowledge about what's going on, more data about that particular brand optimization, switching out content in the moment. And then of course using programmatic and automation to do so. And by the way, that part of it means that even a static sign can become digital because the back end, the ability to buy and in a more informed way and with a broader perspective kind of creates more opportunity for the static side of the industry as well. So I think digital really is the driver of growth here. The new types of signs too. I mean you can like the sphere or anamorphic signs, you know, there's, there's just like so many cool things you can do with digital too on the, on the creative side as well that obviously then can lead into again coming back to the glue that we are. We're incredibly sharable. And you know, there's a strong connection with social media and you know, consumers seeing this more as sort of something that they want to show their, their friends, right? Like in a different way that I think a lot of ads in traditional environments are, but then also the ability to retarget, you know, because we are privacy safe in many way, both when it comes to retail media. CTV and other channels you can use out of home to, when you may not know exactly who you targeted, you know, where they were. So you can leverage our ads to just amplify and create more frequency and better reach.
- [17:26]
Ad Tech Go
So I mean I've, I've bought digital out of home. I bought the screens inside of an, of taxis and Ubers. I bought billboards in, in New York during advertising week and I bought some, I think in vehicle and billboards possible last year. Just kind of promoting the podcast and promoting the brand. It was effective. It was effective for I think two parts for me. Like one, I, I could see who scanned the QR code and, and the cabs, which I was surprised people actually scanned them and they, they checked out the podcast. Like who is this guy? Or oh, how funny, he's actually running some ads. But the other part was a lot of the kind of like earned media people were relatively shocked that at an event where I may have to pay 25, 30, $40,000 to promote my business that I basically hacked them or trolled them by running ads for everybody driving from the airport to the location. And so I got some free, very reasonably priced exposure to everybody I wanted to reach without having to be an actual part of the event. And so I saw a lot of value.
- [18:28]
Ana Bagger
You did a much better job promoting it than I did with my fairly complicated explanation of how it fits. I mean, you're spot on. It really is a great way to connect with consumers and then have them talk about it, share it. If you do it right, if you pick the right location, which, by the way, we are experts at in this industry, like, that's not. That's what we know. We know exactly where signs should be and what they should look like and who they will reach. If you do that well and then you have great creative, you're gonna get a lot of free me. Powerful. Yeah, it's very powerful.
- [19:00]
Ad Tech Go
Yeah, I. I agree. I think it's pretty powerful. I mean, you can't say that you haven't noticed billboards. Like, we have short memory spans. So, I mean, you want me to name something from three weeks ago? I can't. I can't tell you. I noticed them and I read them, and I think they are effective. And like, you had mentioned the, the growth area, because I'm in love with Programmatic is the programmatic side. Like, I think that's where you're going to see a flood of dollars. It's just simplicity of launch. You're kind of tapping to a whole new advertiser pool that maybe you didn't before. And it's a. It's a process that we're very familiar with. You know, upload the creative, pick your locations, click your day part and go live or your, you know, your footprint, where you want to add to run. It's pretty easy. I mean, I've used it on. On a platform, and I found it very easy in comparison to running other media.
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Ana Bagger
It is, and it's getting easier. I mean, we see this as a huge opportunity for the industry, too. So there's a lot of development and standards and above all, making sure that we can tie out of home in a more omnichannel way. Right. So it's not just about the one off out of home ad. It's about creating a actual consumer journey right between the home to the store and out of home in between or wherever you show up. It's making sure that we can be part of something bigger, a broader media strategy. I think that that's. That's a really big, big thing for out of home, and that's where a lot of the opportunity will lie. So, yeah, Programmatic, I think it's an opportunity for everyone, but for us in particular, because we're so early days, I think a lot of growth is going to come from there in the future, for sure.
- [20:32]
Ad Tech Go
There's a lot of exciting innovation happening across the space, obviously, with streaming growth, with privacy compliance and regulation. What's something that really excites you in The O space, you know, on top of just programmatic. But where are you seeing the real innovation being driven in your, I guess, arena and your specialty?
- [20:54]
Ana Bagger
I'm excited about so many things. One of the things I'm very excited is that the, you know, the fact that the rest of the world seems to slowly but surely actually wake up to out of home. I mean, I did it a while ago and you know, we've never had as much attention or focus on the platform as we do now and I think I see it growing. So it's just that I think there is a sort of foundational opportunity now just in out of home being a place that people really see a lot of value in. I mean, I am and I have been since I got here. Sounds weird to say, but I am very excited about our fit into the world because we are both more brand safe and privacy safe than many other media because it will be a battle in the coming years. I mean the privacy regulations that are developing state by state are concerning and also very different from each other. So it's going to be very complicated to buy media going forward. I'm sure we're going to get federal legislation hopefully in this next term. But regardless, it's going to be pretty draconian and we don't really play in that field. So that's an opportunity for us, an opportunity for us to place ourselves with other platforms and help out in a sense. Right. So, and I'm coming from the iv, so hence, you know, I have a background there. I am excited about that. I'm also just really excited about some of the innovation that we're seeing on the screen side. The really cool creative executions that you can do now and beautiful ads that are, you know, unmissable and very, very shareable. And you know, a lot of new brands are coming into out of home where we've always been a space that Challenger Brands or dc, whatever you decide you want to call them, have utilized out of home. I think a lot for cost reasons, but also because it really works and it reaches, you know, and we have proof points there now, it reaches the audiences that they really want to get go for. So I'm excited for that too. And I think I just, you know, maybe more of an answer to your previous question, but when you think about our medium and you know, I think anyone who went to Cannes Lions this year and I spoke to Tim Armstrong about this former aol, now an out of home guy, I guess he, he owns a, a QR code company, you know, you're in can. The whole place is an out of home execution. It's ad after ad, bigger than after bigger ad promoting, all these digital channels. So the industry, you know, and, and ad tech solutions and you know, whatever it is, they love out of home and have been using it for years. One of our biggest advertisers, Google. So I think there is a strong connection. I think we just need to do a better job promoting ourselves. And that I guess is the final thing that excites me. I feel like the industry coming out of the pandemic has just kind of rallied, innovated and got to a place where I think we're much better at telling our spiel now than we have been in the past and why we're, why we deserve a seat at the table.
- [23:43]
Ad Tech Go
So you know, as a final question, what's a common misconception of digital out of home or out of home that you hear from people? There's always kind of pushback as it relates to, you know, linear versus streaming, whether you know, mobile app or mobile web. There are obviously benefits to both. There are pros and cons to both. But what's something that you commonly hear about the out of home industry that you feel is maybe the wrong perception of it and the wrong view of how it works or its benefits?
- [24:13]
Ana Bagger
The one thing that actually really annoys me is, and this is at our industry's own fault is that we're calling it so many different things. If it's digital out of home, programmatic, out of home video, out of home audio, out of like out of home, like we're not a huge industry for all, you know, purposes. In a sense we're location based marketing. That name was already taken so we can't use it. But that's really what we are. We're selling space in a location and I think us slicing and dicing ourselves into so many pieces so it's hard to understand is not good. And I think that creates a lot of misconception. Digital out of home and out of home should really be the same thing because you're serving the same need, it's the same thing that you're putting out there in a sense. So I think, I think we're not doing ourselves a favor with making ourselves more complicated. And again, coming from the ib I fully understand that it's important to have a clear taxonomy, terms and conditions and, and definitions of an industry to be able to sell because otherwise it's going to be hard for the buy side understand you. And I think that's something that I don't understand why we're doing. I think we need to improve. I think we need a better positioning of ourselves. The other would be that out of Home is just for stunts. It's great for stunts, but it's really great for everyday meat and potato advertising. Again, because consumers pay attention, they download that QR code and they like us.
- [25:38]
Ad Tech Go
Awesome. That was a great answer, by the way. I didn't think that would be one of them, but I agree. I think I referred to it.
- [25:45]
Ana Bagger
What did you think I was going to say?
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Ad Tech Go
I don't know. I heard you. You know, I've been referring to Programmatic out of Home. Programmatic Digital. Out of Home. Out of Home. It's all kind of one pie, but you know, it's been diced up into so many smaller pieces that it's quite confusing, or not even confusing, but you're, you're just shrinking the piece of each one. But when in reality, the overall out of home industry is sizable. But when you talk about Programmatic, which is a fast growing piece of that pie, it just makes everything look like it's not as successful as it is. But it is a very thriving industry and a growing industry. But spicing it up that way just doesn't do it any justice.
- [26:24]
Ana Bagger
Exactly. And, but I will say Programmatic just like you, huge fan and I think that's going to be the biggest growth driver for us going forward. So just the ease that it creates among all these different things. Just start talking about audiences rather than whatever type of platform it's on and just buy these audiences across out of home. I think that's going to help us grow a lot. So you're here for Programmatic.
- [26:50]
Ad Tech Go
Ana, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day.
- [26:54]
Ana Bagger
Thank you for having me. This is so fun.
- [26:57]
Ad Tech Go
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Adtech Godpost, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates. So follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget ETG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of adtech innovation.