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Ep. 75 Investing in What’s Next: Danilo Tauro on AI, Startups, and Strategic Shifts
00:26:59
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- [00:00]
Ad Tech God
This episode is brought to you by Zeta Global. Do you know what it takes to transform marketing into a data driven profit center? Are you able to align the C suite around your AI vision and strategy? Zeta Global has the Playbook to help you get started. Download driving growth in the AI era today at Zetacmo AI Book. Again, that's Zeta CMO Book. Welcome to the AdTech Godpod, your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your host, Ad Tech God. Welcome to the AdTech Godpod, your go to for conversations with those who build AdTech. Today we have Danilo Toro from Aparium Ventures. Danilo comes from an impressive background including being the Global Director at Procter and Gamble, Head of Product at Amazon Ads, and GM of Uber Eats Advertising. He's recently joined Aperium as Managing Partner. So I'm definitely looking forward to chatting with Danilo and hearing his thoughts on the industry and its direction. Danilo, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the pod.
- [01:14]
Danilo Toro
Thank you for having me.
- [01:16]
Ad Tech God
Thank you. And thank you for taking this call while you're abroad. I know, I know time zones can be challenging, but thank you for taking a few moments.
- [01:23]
Danilo Toro
Of course.
- [01:24]
Ad Tech God
Danil, I looked at your background. I'm familiar with the Perion Ventures. We work closely with with Eric Franchi and Joe Zawadzky. I'm excited you joined them. But can you tell me how you, you, you got into the industry and what attracted you to. To advertising and advertising technology overall?
- [01:40]
Danilo Toro
Yes, 100%. And it goes back to when I was at P and G. So I think the fun fact is I was not planning to join the industry. I remember when I was at university, I was taking my marketing class in that, oh my God, this is too fluffy. I will never work in advertising. And again, background is I'm an engineer 100%. I did my bachelor's, my master's, my Ph.D. all in engineering. So I thought I would never work in marketing. There was a PNG and I was doing basically risk analytics, I was building products for commodity trading, etc. Etc. And somebody told me, oh, the skills that you have would apply very much to marketing and ad tech, etc. Which I didn't know what it was. And then I said, okay, tell me more. So long story short, I got to know what programmatic buying was, real time bidding, et cetera, et cetera. So basically it was a lunch. I still remember. And basically from there I said, oh my God, that's going to be my next job. So long story short, I was doing something completely different at P and G. Engineering background, got into ad tech because of the programmatic world. And yeah, basically that's how I started.
- [02:47]
Ad Tech God
When you started at Procter and Gamble, this is now going back 2015, 2012, you moved from a product manager into global director of media tech and data. How was that transition for you? And when you moved into that type of role and working on those types of products and projects, how did you feel it attracted you to it the most? What was it that made you want to dig in and work in in the media, tech and data sector?
- [03:19]
Danilo Toro
Yeah. So that's a discussion I often have with, with a few friends because they're like, oh my God, Daniel, you're so passionate about what you're doing. You know, tell us more. And what I tell them is really about, you know, there are a few elements that I was looking into a job. So one was the. The technological aspect. And after the lunch that I mentioned before, clearly the technology aspect was there. The second one is I. I really love to engage with people to understand, you know, how they're thinking, what they're doing to connect, network, et cetera, et cetera. And clearly our industry is kind of open to all of that. So those were the two things that I was looking. And then you may say, okay, but there are different jobs that can actually fit the description. So the third criteria is I really felt at the time. So it was 2015. Well, I mean, basically I made the switch, really felt it was cool. And of course now we think of, you know, Google, Facebook, Amazon, the Wal Gardens or, you know, the new big platforms, and it looks like established business. But back in 2015, it was kind of still, I would say, emerging. So that's why I really felt it was a cool space to be. So I said, okay, there is technology aspect, there is a kind of networking aspect, and I feel it's cool. So it's the right place to be. Then, coming from a very, completely, very different background, then, was it also difficult to learn the lingo, the terminology, etc. Etc. Yes, I always share the story. You know, when I was at png, of course, everybody wants to pitch to png, right, because they want to sell one of the largest advertisers in the world. And at the beginning, many times, I did not understand what people were trying to tell me or, you know, what they were talking about. And I thought, oh my God, you know, I'm so behind then. Reality is, what happens is sometimes, you know, people use buzzwords. So I just Realized that asking two or three questions, not only I would learn more, but I would also understand if the person on the other side basically would really understand what they're selling. Or it's more like putting buzzwords together. But long story short, it was a bit of a period of learning where basically I would ask questions. And I remember my learning was both internally with my PNG colleagues from which I learned so much, but also from the vendors, which basically helped me really, you know, get up to speed with the technology, the, the different opportunities, et cetera, et cetera. So I think that's how I got in. And I really, you know, thank very much P and G and all the partners for, for basically almost the onboarding and putting up with all my questions in year one and likely, you know, year two and so on.
- [05:49]
Ad Tech God
I mean, I think it's still cool. I think the industry is still very cool. It's just shifted. It's funny when you look back at, at 2015 and where we are as an industry overall, looking at, you know, Procter and Gamble and their digital spend, I'm sure it's increased greatly since then and now the, the medians have changed. You know, the shift towards retail media networks, the focus on that as an overall strategy, and even just the growth of connected television since 2015, it just feels like it's always changing, it's always adapting to user behavior. But you're right, I think the, the second point you mentioned was the networking always stays constant, even from 2015 or prior till now. It's incredibly a powerful tool for people.
- [06:35]
Danilo Toro
Yeah, 100%. And if I think the three criteria, right, technology, 100%, you know, it was there and it's here. Networking and connecting with people, etc. Still there, as we just said. But I think also the coolness area is also there. Because if we think. Exactly. If you think, for example, even AI, you know, sometimes, again with friends, we discuss about, in the era of a. Are you still, you know, in love with what you're doing? I'm like, oh my God. Whatever we are doing is actually a perfect gym, a perfect laboratory to test and to expand AI. Because there are data. If you think, you know, what do you need to basically apply AI, machine learning, etc. It's data. What are the areas where you have the most data easily available? You have fintech and you have, I would say, ad tech. So that's why I think it's a, it's a cool area to be for everyone that wants to do AI, machine learning, et cetera so that's why I still think the coolness aspect is there.
- [07:27]
Ad Tech God
What took you from Procter and Gamble to Amazon ads? The Amazon ads business is massive today. But when you had joined, maybe not as big as it is as it is now, but what was it about Amazon ads business that attracted you the most? The data availability? Is it just the sheer volume of opportunity? I'd love to hear that one piece.
- [07:48]
Danilo Toro
Of context which is as I was at P and G, so basically I was within the marketing function, within the brand function. But at the time Mark Pritchard, CMO just said, hey, we cannot have each single brand talking to all the technology providers. We need to create a central group which basically takes care of all of that. And I was basically part of that group and leading many initiatives there. So I got very close, I would say, to everything which is Adtech and Martech. And I got so close to it, I said, okay, I've done the buy side, I would love to do the tech side. So that's why I think, you know, doing a switch from the buy side to the tech side was basically what motivated me. And then the question is, okay, why specifically Amazon? So I think there were two trends that already then I moved there early 2021 and I think there were two trends which I thought were cool. One was this idea of full funnel. And so I was thinking who better than Amazon can do the full funnel because they do have the purchase data, so the retail media network, etc. Etc. But they also have the ability to potentially do upper funnel. And this is also because they have own and operated properties with connected tv. And actually my desire was to join CTV to lead CTV for them. And that's why basically my first assignment within Amazon was specifically CTV ad tech, which is okay, they have a bunch of different assets from you know, DSP data, Clean room, own and operated properties. How do you connect, integrate and synchronize all of that, knowing that it's not just a tool for upper funnel, but it's a tool for full funnel. So that's a bit the genesis of my interest in Amazon. So it was really CTV and Full.
- [09:23]
Ad Tech God
Funnel coming together and then you moved into Uber Eats advertising, which I'm assuming has just as much in depth data, maybe not as much as Amazon on the retail side, but you know, the geolocation data, purchase data based off Uber Eats. How was that transition to Uber Eats and leading on their product?
- [09:44]
Danilo Toro
Yeah, so that was quite straightforward I would say because also if you look at the, the Uber business, right, you have the Uber, the rider app. And you know, personally I would define that more kind of a traditional digital media if you will. And then you have, because you're buying attention of people on a screen and then you have Uber Eats advertising which is more like a traditional retail media because you have a marketplace, you have buyers and sellers coming together. So I would say if we want to categorize what is retail media, for me it starts with a marketplace. So that's why as I was the GM of Uber Eats advertising. So for me there was almost a one to one fit with what I was doing before because it's based on a marketplace based on sellers that want to advertise to buyers that are there exactly to purchase something. So I think there was a smooth transition. I think it was a different role because Amazon was more like a technical role towards a 100% product focused in Uber Eats. I was most responsible was the gm so responsible cross functionally about the growth of the, of the platform. But I would say it was a smooth transition from that standpoint.
- [10:51]
Ad Tech God
So Danilo, you, you, you moved over to Apparent Ventures. You're working with Eric Franchi, you're working with Joe Zawadzky. Both have incredible backgrounds in the space. Can you tell me from, from where you sit today, what do you think the industry looks like 6 12, you know, 18 months from now? I'm sure you're seeing a very holistic view working and being a part of Aperium Ventures.
- [11:16]
Danilo Toro
Yeah. So what I love about Apperium and what actually led me there was within Apperium Ventures so there are different investment teams and then the investment teams turn into basically the specific companies that they invested in and that we keep investing on, et cetera, et cetera. And so basically there is ctv which is a topic close to my heart. So I mentioned it before I worked at it at P& G at Amazon and you know, I think it's a topic that I think will keep growing. So I think CTV is there, there is retail media, so that's another topic and I think it will keep growing. I think brands do want to have accountability for their spend. So the ability to connect media exposures to business outcomes, I think this will become stronger and stronger. And we see it also, you know, the different finance media network that are being created. But anyway, so commerce media, written media is a second pillar. There is creative tech which I think is a, is a theme and I would say a set of tools that are being created which I think will definitely change the way people think of the Creative supply chain from the ideation, the production, the testing, the scaling. So I think creative tech is a third pillar which I think is quite big. There is identity, which as we know, you know, in a period of, you know, I think privacy is, is top of mind for regulators, for advertisers and tech companies. So I think the topic of identity more broadly I think is very big. So long story short, knowing that Ethereum is basically investing in companies that will make a difference in the advertising world in the next, I would say five to 10 years. So being able to be part of the journey early on, having specific teams where I feel very comfortable with and I believe, you know, they're going to be big teams for advertising. I think at the period where AI is changing everything that is happening. So that's, you know, many words, but that's basically what got me to appear. And I know Eric for many years and Joe even before. So that's why I think it was an easy transition for me. So I'm very, very excited to be there with them.
- [13:18]
Ad Tech God
Can I ask you a question? Just a few weeks ago there was an article that came out about a parium about advice that you want to start providing to various clients. Are you involved in that in any way? Is that part of your responsibility or is that just an overall, I guess a parium shift towards not only funding and assisting these startups with growth and the resources they need, but also advice and consulting type services.
- [13:47]
Danilo Toro
I love this question and I will actually use it to share more background on.
- [13:54]
Ad Tech God
Yeah, I read the article and it sounds like there's going to be a heavier investment into advisory type services, but maybe you can explain what that means and what that looks like for the company.
- [14:04]
Danilo Toro
Yes, so as good old Amazonian. So the concept of the flywheel is very dear to me because I think it's very powerful. And actually there is a book that was written on flywheel. I learned that the flywheel was not invented at Amazon. But anyway, so there is a. It's a concept which I think is very powerful. And so the idea is how do you make sure that every single effort you're doing is kind of turning the flywheel in the right direction until you create momentum and then it become basically unstoppable. So basically this concept of the flywheel is, you know, how do we build a flywheel within appearance? So that was the broader question. And so of course you had like appearance, I would say 1.0, which is more like know you invest in companies, you support them, you grow them and I think, you know, they were doing a fantastic job there. And then the question that we had asked as a, as a team was okay, what is Apperium 2.0? And so that's where the concept of the flywheel came out. And so why I'm sharing that because if you think advisory and investing, there is for example, nice flywheel there. So if you are involved in technology investments, it means that you have access to all the latest trends. You really understand what is real and what is vaporware. You really understand how different companies are taking the same problems. So I think throughout the sourcing work you get access to a lot of information, Trends, understanding people, etc. Etc. Then you can use all of this to actually support large clients which could be advertisers, could be, you know, established ad tech players, could be large media players. So as you serve those clients, because you have so much knowledge that basically can help them plan for the future and do product strategy, go to market, partnership strategy. So I think it's a wealth of knowledge which is quite unique. And as you do it, basically you establish relationships with these larger clients that basically at minimum can bring back insights to your own portfolio companies. So it's like, oh my God, this is a trend which is very important. This is the dynamic. So basically it's, it's super helpful to understand what are those high level trends because you can bring this feedback back, this kind of understanding of the market back to the portfolio company. And at minimum at best you could even bring back some clients. And I think there was a public case that was promoted also a few weeks ago which was a ShopSense, a company that appear invested in and Bell Media Canada, which is actually an advisory client. So we created that connection and I think it was a pyram at its best where you have an advisory client, a portfolio company coming together and it's this kind of one plus one equals three. So that's why to your question appear 2.0. I think there is this concept of the flywheel where you have the investment at the core, but then your advisory and there is a nice flywheel there. But then there is also orchestration which is how do you bring point solution to be better connected, integrated and synchronized to serve the needs of the brands. And then there is a concept of I would say marketing or positioning which also basically we can help with given you know, the different connections that we have with different outlets. Outlets. So that's in a nutshell how we were thinking about Apperium 2.0.
- [17:18]
Ad Tech God
So what was the Aperium Ads, the technology layer, there was something about maximizing ad spend as well as enterprise type curation. Do you know much about the Apperium Ads announcement as well?
- [17:34]
Danilo Toro
Yeah, Apperium Ads, I think it's this layer of orchestration. So the point is, if I take a step back also to when I was on the buy side at P and G, many times you get reach out from companies, they offer a solution and that solution solves a very specific problem. To be able to drive business impact, you need to complement that solution with many more capabilities. So the point is you can drive to the grocery store, but then you need to be able to walk in to find whatever you want to buy, to pay, etc. So if you just give me the car, I need the end to end solution. So long story short, the point is how could we bring end to end capabilities to the buyers, to the advertisers so that really they can focus on what matters to them. And what matters to them is what is my KPI from a brand standpoint. And then underneath we can do that heavy legwork to make sure that we connect different solutions. And so for example, one area that Apperium Ads is attacking is overall the programmatic supply chain. So as we know it's a supply chain that is Mark Pritchard used to say, murky at best and fraudulent at worst. So the point is, how can we help advertisers get more transparency, potentially reduce cost, improve sustainability, etc. Etc. So basically we rely on the underneath technologies. The point solutions are the ones within the appelling portfolio and then we provide a layer of orchestration so that basically we can help the technology to get to the brands to be implemented, etc, etc. So that's what appearance is.
- [19:12]
Ad Tech God
Okay, so it's not necessarily a perium building technology, it's more of a perium understanding what they have at their fingertips, knowing that there's 20, 30 companies in your portfolio and when speaking to a client being able to say, look, there's, here's the issues that you have and the solutions that you need, here's four different companies that can solve it. We can help you utilize these tools and these solutions that we have. Because overall you need all three of these and not one. And we can assist with this through our advisory services.
- [19:43]
Danilo Toro
I would say yes. And so there is definitely a strong go to market component. So you really start from the customer, in this case the advertiser. What's the pain point? What's the North Star? And you build backward from there, knowing that you have a bunch of ingredients and I would say so yes to everything you said there is an end, which is many times these point solutions need to be connected, need to adjust their product, need to basically we need to build data pipes. We need to basically make sure that the end to end solution works. And so that's why often there is a technology layer on top to basically drive this orchestration. So it's not just go to market. I think it's go to market plus a layer of technology to drive that orchestration across point solutions.
- [20:30]
Ad Tech God
Great. That that actually answers my, my question because I was, I read the article and I wish I had it in front of me and I read it and I couldn't figure out whether it was purely advisory services or there was some sort of technology build that's required. It sounds like there is some technology going to be built to connect those solutions together.
- [20:50]
Danilo Toro
Correct, Exactly. So it's an orchestration technology which we can apply to the programmatic supply chain, which is the one that you know, I discussed in the, in the article. But then we're also basically very strongly implementing basically technology orchestration for everything which is commerce media. So that's going to be also something that you know, we are trying to expand.
- [21:10]
Ad Tech God
Incredible. What, what major trends are you seeing? You have a variety of technology companies in, in the portfolio you had mentioned, you know, commerce use, connected television, creative tech, you know, utilization of AI and how that's being used across all of those things. Where are you the most positive about what excites you the most over the next six to 12 months that you feel will be changing the industry for the better and for the long term?
- [21:38]
Danilo Toro
Yeah, and I would say the themes that we discussed before definitely are hot and will change the industry as we know it today. So I think CTV will keep evolving, Commerce Media will keep evolving. So you know, from retail media we're getting to finance media network, et cetera, et cetera. So I think travel media networks. So I think the themes we discussed before are definitely hot. So especially I would say ctv, Commerce Media and Creative Tech. I think the one that I'm very bullish about is AI, but let me qualify because of course everybody's talking about AI and I think AI will impact the industry in two key ways. So one is overall workflow simplification because you know, I'm sure that everybody's familiar with this concept of the Frankensteinized tech stack, right. So you, you build a tech stack and you add pieces and then it becomes very clunky and then it becomes Very, you know, operationally heavy and so on and so forth. So the point is, how can you simplify operations? How can you basically democratize some of these technologies? Because some of these technologies are meant to be used by enterprise and then as you think of smaller customers, I think it becomes more difficult. So the point is, can you actually democratize the use so remove frictions, simplify the workflow, streamline processes and reduce also, you know, the cost to serve? Can you do all of that because you're using AI agents for example. So I think the all workflow simplification and streamlining is something which I think is going to be super, super top of mind for, for brands and, and tech companies as well. And then the second area of AI is basically AI as a new channel. And I think, you know, more people are talking about, for example, you know, how people are using, you know, the different LLM and foundational models to actually ask questions for their day to day life. So the point is, you know, how do we interact? If I'm a brand, how do I interact? How do I think about LLM? Is it a channel? How do I build my content to make sure that I'm well represented in that channel? Is that the only thing that is happening? Because for example, right now, again there are solutions that are coming out which is, oh, can I put a brand agent into an ad unit so that basically my consumers can engage with my brand differently. So instead of just seeing the exposure to the brand, can they actually interact with the brand? So long story short, there is a area number one which is AI for workflow optimization, but area number two which is AI to build new ways of engaging the consumers. And I think this is the one where, you know, there are the most opportunities in terms of it's a white space. So I think we'll see many more different business models that get created in the, in the next future.
- [24:30]
Ad Tech God
This has been very insightful, thank you by the way, Danilo. But to really close it out, I'd love to hear about what you're looking for because there are going to be some startups who listen to this. Many of them are active on LinkedIn and X and I engage with them often. What are you looking for? So any of the listeners who have startups who are looking to scale and grow their businesses, what is the attractive type of business that you're looking for today? Do they span across ctv, Commerce, Creative Tech and AI? And what do you look for in those companies to bring them into the A perium family? If you want to call it that.
- [25:06]
Danilo Toro
Yeah, yeah. And I think there would be even more teams that basically would fit and, you know, deserve an investment because I think, you know, there is much more than just CTV, creative, tech, commerce, media and AI, etc. So let me just want to highlight, these are the primary teams, but it could be more. So that's why if there are, I would say, you know, to your question, what are you looking for? I think if there are people that can solve a specific problem and can prove, you know, the specific experience or expertise need to solve that specific problem and the problem is compelling for the brands, there is a strong team behind, there is the right technology understanding. I think these are all elements that are important because I think it starts with are you solving the right problem? Then once you're solving the right problem, do you have the right technical capability to bring a solution which basically cannot be easily copied? I think if you start putting these few things together, I think that becomes an interesting company to explore. So I think any solutions that can solve a specific brand problem with the potential to scale and the technology to do so, I think that becomes interesting.
- [26:14]
Ad Tech God
Amazing. Danilo, thank you again for taking time. As you're abroad, I appreciate the time that you took out today for me. So thank you and nice to meet you.
- [26:23]
Danilo Toro
Thank you so much for having me.
- [26:26]
Ad Tech God
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Adtech Godpost, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates. So follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget ETG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of adtech innovation.