Ad Tech God (6:57)

It must have been crazy to see the transition of, you know, I think Zuma was, was founded by the Vanderhooks, right by Chris and Tim.

Bill Condon (7:04)

It was Vanderhoeks and Viant Technology were early investors.

Ad Tech God (7:08)

So okay.

Bill Condon (7:09)

Colin Petrie Norris and Jiro igawa were the two co founders. Colin was Ad.com, europe specific media kind of grew into that. So the Vanderhooks and Viant were very early backers and investors and really sort.

Ad Tech God (7:25)

Of helped that company and then moving under the Comcast family or Comcast umbrella and then again with the joint venture, what do you think propelled everything forward so fast? Because the consumption of FAST grew really quickly. But in the earlier days it didn't seem like there was that much competition. And then, you know, over the last year or so there's really. When you talk about the premium FAST solutions in market, there's maybe a handful of. When we talk about the long tail fast solutions in market, there's thousands. How do you feel things changed over the last few years in relation to, you know, advertiser interests, consumer behavior, et cetera.

Bill Condon (8:03)

The growth is, is amazing. I think you looked at the early days of fast. I look when I first started at Zumo and it wasn't, it wasn't part of Comcast wasn't a household name. We had great partnerships with the likes of LG and Samsung. My sales team used to carry around LG Televisions because we were deeply integrated into LG ads. It was a great partnership. And we'd rock up to agencies and they'd be like, well, why are you bringing us a tv? We already have a tv. I said, you have a tv, but you don't understand what this is. And to see that integration into that experience was kind of eye opening. So to your point, I think the knowledge of FAST and what it was, it wasn't there. So being able to evangelize and bring that out was, Was wild. And you'd be in meetings with these clients and agencies and just showing them and you see that aha moment in real time was amazing. The other piece was, I would joke, listen, I'm here today to talk to you about something totally new and exciting. It's TV on a television for free, with ads. We're kind of going back to the future. And that's what it was. And it was interesting, the evolution of fast. And back then, everyone sort of, I'd say, sort of thumb their nose at it a bit. To your point about, you know, long tail. And you looked at the content like, oh, this isn't, this isn't NDC or this isn't cbs. But you look at it, you looked at things like Food52 and Tastemade and those are. I would put that up against the Food Network. It's professionally produced content. Zumo was one of the godparents of fast out of necessity, where they went out, acquired this content because they couldn't afford to license, you know, these larger deals. And most companies and production companies and movie studios weren't doing that. So they created it to give us thousands of hours of your digital video. And we will linearize it and we'll put it into a guide. And everyone's like, ah, guide. So old. But look at it. It's just that, that searching functionality and making old tv, new tv, you know, there's no new ideas. We just keep repackaging stuff over and over again and just, you know, keep ourselves in business.

Ad Tech God (10:07)

It's pretty incredible though. The connected television or streaming space like boomed so much in 2020 and the consumption just went through the roof.

Bill Condon (10:16)

Yeah, it was phenomenal because you looked at the content and there wasn't much being produced from the traditional areas and it couldn't be. And you had this treasure trove of content that was available. And I think it's funny where you almost look back to, I think it was NBC in the 80s or 90s. They would reclassify their, their reruns as it's, you know, if you haven't seen it, it's new to you. And FAST was new to a lot of people. All these, you know, older shows and westerns and great content. And because there was. Wasn't being produced on the. The linear or the traditional side with movies, FAST really sort of filled in a huge entertainment gap for people. And I think that need. But also, you know, content is one thing. Everyone says content is king, but I'd say distribution and discoverability is King Kong because the fact that Zumo and Tubi and Pluto and Samsung TV plus they were all integrated into these devices and you made it really easy to access, that just became a habit for people. And you one click away or one voice search away, that really sort of grew that. And then to go from those early stages when you and I are obviously both camera ready, but we could have basically created a fast channel and went to a Roku or to a Zumo and got that on there. And I think you're starting to see the evolution of what content looks like now with Warner Brothers Discovery and, and Sony and Fremantle just realizing this is the next distribution platform or not quite. You've got the MLBs and the NFL and the sports networks aren't putting a lot of stuff on there for free. But using this as an outlet, you know, you're not going to want a live football game. But the NFL does a great job. MLB does a great job of putting in content and highlights because this is an area to sort of reach new people. It almost sort of reminds me of if you look at the history of espn. When ESPN first started, they didn't have the NFL, they didn't have mlb. They had Australian football or, you know, Korean baseball. And this is stuff they put on and people watched it and kind of enjoyed it. And then when they grew and had that, okay, we've got more money and budget, we're going to go and plan a deal with NFL and we're going to take these big swings. You're definitely seeing that now on the fast space with what's going on. And you know, look at what Roku's doing with MLB on Sundays and, you know, you're starting to see that. And cable networks realize that you've got limited space on the traditional cable bundle. But if you're, you know, one of these sports networks and you have additional games, why not put it out on fast and test those waters? So it almost reminds me of old cable when cable was first on there. Like, what kind of program was it? And Then you got things like hbo. We're launching these great original series. It wasn't just for reruns. So fast is almost sort of in that renaissance phase.

Ad Tech God (13:36)

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Evglis. After an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

Bill Condon (13:54)

EVGLIS Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. Eglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief.

Ad Tech God (14:28)

Ask your doctor about eglis and visit.

Bill Condon (14:30)

Epgliss.Lily.Com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979 right now.

Ad Tech God (14:36)

Yeah, you do find a lot of, if you want to call it fast, content producers that didn't exist before. It's created like an entire market of new content. I want to call it content creators, but I would say production houses and production companies that didn't exist before because the barriers for entry were so difficult. Like you'd have to go negotiate with a major cable co and convince them that people want to watch your cooking channel when they already have a cooking channel available. But with fast, it just seemed like it opened up a world of new creators and new very niche channels that are available because the, the, the barriers for entry was. It's just so much easier.

Bill Condon (15:17)

100% correct. And I've, I've had this discussion with people you go back to. I think it was early 2000s. Remember the, the multi channel networks, the MCNs that were out there?

Ad Tech God (15:27)

Yes, I do, actually. Yep.

Bill Condon (15:29)

So those, it's that same concept. But it, the only distribution point at the time was YouTube. So finding that footing and having the right economic opportunities wasn't there. But you look at what's going on now and that works. It's almost as MCNs were, almost too early, the multi channel networks and because the distribution and the barrier to entry, it's not there anymore. You have all these TV companies like Samsung and Roku and Vizio and TCL that are truly embracing this and realizing that we have an opportunity to serve our consumers and also be a platform where we can, you know, these TVs now make more money when they're in market. And before it was just like, great, you sold and you're done. But the ROI on these devices with data and usage and the fact that they're sharing in it has opened up a whole new world. And you see, you know, the early leaders with, you know, Samsung really diving into it, Roku, where they are now and how they're evolving. It's, it feels like FAST has evolved and we're talking about this like it's, we're in history class. But Compare CTV and fast to how long TVs been around and we're, we're still at our infancy.

Ad Tech God (16:55)

I've had more than two publishers on. I had Natalie Scully on from Vevo and I had Megan Myers from amc and both of them brought up this topic in particular when it comes to distribution of the content that, you know, Vevo was predominantly a YouTube channel, right? They had all their music videos on YouTube. They were being monetized primarily through Google. They had direct sales efforts, it was there. And then they launched across streaming solutions, streaming apps and they saw, you know, astronomical growth. And then with Megan, she mentioned, you know, we're not trying to bring people to us like we have to go to them. So distribution of this content, who I think just by the way, she just joined Fox, but she mentioned, you know, the goal here was to really get our content in front of everyone and they're going to find what they want to watch and they're going to watch it, but we're not going to force them to go to another device. So we want to be on the fire stick, we want to be on Apple tv, we want to be on Zumo, we want to be everywhere we possibly can because in the end they're going to consume what they consume and we don't want to have to force them to go sign up for Roku or buy a Roku device when we can make that inventory or that content available everywhere.

Bill Condon (18:01)

And it's so interesting where the economic model of windowing and licensing content is definitely changing. And if FAST isn't a part of what you're doing, this is sort of the new TV in a lot of ways. And it's complimentary. It's not only competitive to cable and these bundles. It's often what I saw over the past year or two years on the distribution side is it's almost sort of supplementing some of the content on some of these bundles where FAST or FAST type channels are popping up and being part of things like Sling TV and DirecTV now and all these different products. So FAST is ready for prime time and it's going to continue to, I'd say, evolve. And I'm sure we'll cover the new acronym in the next couple of years.

Ad Tech God (18:53)

You know what? I welcome acronyms into my life. Seems like there are still so many acronyms, I don't even know what they mean yet. I just know when to use them as fast as gaining popularity. You mentioned a few traditional cable cos, if you want to call them that, the DirecTV's, the charters, they're all coming out with streaming solutions or have all come out with streaming solutions in the market. So there's obviously an appetite for it. And I think as the. Can I say aging population changes.

Bill Condon (19:21)

Yeah.

Ad Tech God (19:22)

Is that fair? I say it that way?

Bill Condon (19:23)

I think that's. That's correct. And you're, you're not, you're not offending me. I know.

Ad Tech God (19:31)

I don't know if I consider myself aging population, but, you know, like, I think as you start to see the newer generation start to, you know, consume television, like they don't think about going and getting a cable box anymore. They just go straight to streaming. And as you're seeing the aging population change, like my father, who's well into his 70s, he streams. And so you're starting to see this adoption happening of where, okay, we're replacing it with something that's newer and maybe more customizable when it comes to who you sign up for. But then they also like the. All the free content too. Like the bill has been reduced. They don't have Netflix and Disney and Hulu. Right. They have one or two Macs and they're like, oh, we saved hundreds of dollars and I have all the shows I need.

Bill Condon (20:13)

Yeah. You also have the flip side of that. You have these situations where, you know, the ubiquity of fast and you have this integration and this idea of discoverability into all these different devices. Talking to friends, I believe it was at Vizio or someone on the agency side Was telling me this story where their grandmother, like, you work in this streaming space, right? Like, yeah, well, how can I cancel Samsung TV Plus I'm getting these channels and I want to make sure I'm not getting billed for it like, grandma, you're not. This is free. It's part of your television. And then that's the beauty of how seamless it is. Where to your point, like the accessibility, anyone can get access to this no matter how technically savvy or technically challenged you are.

Ad Tech God (21:02)

Where do you see things heading though, Bill? So from, from where you sit, having spent so much time on the enterprise side and on the partnership side, where do you see things are heading, especially with some of the headwinds? We have some economic turmoil, if you want to call it that. My prediction is that we're going to see a shift towards digital. I posted about that and I got slaughtered for saying it. Saying no upfronts, no, it's not possible. It's never going to happen. Not this year. It's not so fast. But having worked in the space during the print days and where I saw print budgets get slashed and budgets immediately shifting towards digital, sometimes I wonder if, you know, history will repeat itself and we'll see more money flowing towards digital faster than people think.

Bill Condon (21:45)

It's interesting. I think we've reached a tipping point and I think you see how agencies are structured or change structured fast. Used to be this thing on the side or even ctv. I remember ESPN being so excited to be there with the scale that watch ESPN had and most people on the traditional broadcast teams were like, yeah, it's just, it's like a rounding era. It's like, yeah, it's a rounding error. But compare that to the rest of the industry. This is significant. And then you started to realize that agencies and their investment teams are like, wait a second, this isn't this cute little thing over here. It's becoming something far more significant and eyes are shifting. So I want to be part of the cool kid club. Let's pull this in. So you're already sort of seeing that. I think the numbers potentially obfuscate some of the true trends that are happening where you're buying video in totality. So video is already a big part of the part of the upfront. And you can just see where, listen, the 800 pound gorilla or gorillas in the room are, you know, Amazon, Amazon, their brilliant strategy around taking Prime Video and saying, great, you know, Prime Video is a service that's been free. Awesome. We're going to start adding Some ads and what that did, the dynamics, how that impacted the marketplace was insane. Like, it definitely brought more inventory. And they are going to be. And I'm hearing from a lot of people, they're very aggressive in marketing because of having this scale of Prime Video. And oh, by the way, we have a really successful sports franchise with Thursday Night Football who they've done an amazing job over there. And then on top of that, oh, wait, there's more. They're getting the NBA. They're probably bidding for the US and granted I have no inside knowledge of this, but you have to assume they're, you know, bid from the UFC and you see what's going on with Major League Baseball. And listen, the potential ESPN Sunday Night baseball contract might not be renewed, but you'd know that you've got companies like Amazon or NBC with Peacock that are potentially interested in adding some of this stuff. And then Netflix, where it's nice, like ad tech out you. And I think we're going to have jobs for a while because ads are sexy. Again, where it used to be. Oh, you're just going to pay for all this stuff and there's going to be no ads. Like once again, this whole idea of back to the future Prime Video did exactly what cable did years ago because when you've paid for cable, there was no ads in the beginning. And then like, wait a second, we need to. We got to put ads in this. And it was just, it just sort of happened.

Ad Tech God (24:33)

It was like a flip of a switch for Amazon too. If you look at their earnings, how, how much revenue they generated from streaming, it was shocking.

Bill Condon (24:41)

I think everyone's scared about. You still have this narrative where we're trading TV dollars for digital pennies. And granted we've got a lot of work to do, but I see the opportunity and what's driving most of the streaming is live. Most things consume live are sports that should be the most valuable. And I'd still agree it's the most valuable inventory out there. There's still challenges with, you know, serving into a live environment and the way media is bought often programmatically or in a very even flighting, you shouldn't get penalized for a spike in something. Look at March Madness. Like those games. I'd love to see those numbers, but those games were all very close towards the end. I'm sure they exceeded expectations. But in those situations, if we do this right and we're starting to get there with, you know, new ad units where I see what, you know, the what Amazon, with all The AWS services, what they're doing with their, with their server side ad insertion and companies like Transmit and companies like Innovit, we're bringing that broadcast like experience to these environments. And that's where it's not going to be digital pennies anymore. It's going to be dollars and it should be more because we being able to serve in that environment, being able to target those moments, heck, if you're, you know, P and G or Ford or someone that's tied into that, you want to be in that, you, you pay more to be in that environment.

Ad Tech God (26:20)

And the creative units are, are creative in real time too. So it's like the optimization capabilities are there, the custom ad units are there, the, you know, the L bar and the, and the pause screens and all of that that's done, you know, maybe I.O. based for some, but very quick to launch and change and optimize as needed is there, which didn't exist in the, you know, traditional linear world. Like it really is an attractive median to advertisers and it's measurable and it's a big screen and the focus is there. And I want to touch on one thing is that you mentioned the live aspect of it. If streaming gets live and they start securing all these major events and sporting categories, whoever that is, if it's Amazon or other like, that's massive too because that's going to incentivize people to get off of traditional or whatever and move towards streaming solutions. So it'll be interesting as all these sports start to secure contracts with various streaming companies.

Bill Condon (27:20)

The trickle down effect is going to be amazing. Where, think about it where I don't, I don't know what you think, but the majority of stuff being served in an IP environment, are we three years away? Are we six years away? But as that starts shifting over, you know, people get freaked out. But I see such an opportunity because you look at the, the measurement opportunities, but all, you know, we're talking about ad tech, but all the ad tech that goes into serving and to measuring and to tracking, you're shifting such tonnage over to this side and we're figuring out and everyone gets upset about, you know, repeat ads and everything else, but we're getting better. We're still in our infancy, but the technology is getting better and the ads are expanding. We're getting new creative opportunities.

Ad Tech God (28:10)

I was at peak frustration in 2020 with repetitive ads. I think that's when I noticed it the most. Probably because there was so much consumption and there was a, you know, There was a reduction of ad spend temporarily where you felt like, oh my God, how many times am I to see the same ad back to back. And then the solutions weren't in place yet, so they were still working on that. But the user experience has definitely improved in four or five years. Like massive difference. Yeah.

Bill Condon (28:35)

And then the relevancy of ads and obviously a privacy compliant way. But you look at the growth of sort of retail media and Amazon being one of the key ones where their solutions tying in E commerce to video, serving in a sports game, they know like, hey, Bill's got three kids and he does a bunch of stuff, he buys a lot of this. So being able to target that experience or environment like that's huge. Or you tie in ACR data and all these other things where as long as we don't mess this up and we do it well in a privacy compliant way where you're bringing value to consumers and to your point, you're filling in all these ads where it's not just a repeat. Well, wait a second. I know ad tech God needs more cloud seeds because he needs more cover up in heaven because of all the, the popularity you've gotten and you know, all the paparazzi are around. But that finding you in a privacy compliant way and delivering that like that's such a huge opportunity. And once again going back to. And listen, I've done the digital, I've done the line, I've worked for two of the largest cable Internet providers in the country and I see both sides of it. But there is definitely a lift effect where you see why pairing connectivity with service and advertising. There's such a tremendous opportunity and the more challenges, the more opportunities we're starting to create. And that's why I love the space that we're in because we're constantly evolving and changing and because we have to.

Ad Tech God (30:22)

I agree. I do love the shoppable ads aspect. So Roku partnered with Shopify, Amazon has Amazon. I do love that. I don't know how much transactional data we get. I don't know how high the conversion rates are. I love the concept of it. Like the idea of like, hey, you know, purchase from your screen directly if you see an ad for a product. I've done it once and I've talked about it. I bought kids vitamins and I actually scan the QR code and I purchased it and I was surprised at how seamless it was. It actually happened. Just direct me right to Amazon and then I bought it and I converted. But you know, I see Opportunity there, but not until the, the purchasing process is really seamless within. Within the remote itself.

Bill Condon (31:09)

Yeah. And it's a new behavior. Right. So I think it's going to take some time, but there'll be more technological advancements. Anytime there's a challenge, there's an opportunity for someone to come in and solve that and be able to truly lift this industry to where we need to be.

Ad Tech God (31:29)

Bill, what are you most excited about the next, you know, 12 to 18 months. Where do you see things heading? It could be in the streaming space, it could be in the data space. Whatever you're comfortable with. But where do you see the biggest opportunity?

Bill Condon (31:40)

Yeah, I'm going to stick to streaming because we follow each other on LinkedIn, your Holiness. And you know, I'm posting about stream on all the time. So I think we've touched on it. This idea of more of these big scale events shifting, especially on the sports side to streaming opportunities is going to allow for such significant growth in innovation, pulling in data and targeting. I look at things like Major league Baseball, who right now, I don't know if you're a baseball fan, but I am. There's such tonnage, there's so much live inventory going on and that should not be a detriment, that should be a huge selling opportunity. So if we can kind of combine this supply with the right demand and being able to serve and package and, and offer these great innovations, that's just going to continually drive that. I'm really excited about that. And then just the ubiquity of smart TVs and how quickly they're evolving and how cheap they are right now or so not cheap, more affordable.

Ad Tech God (32:50)

Cost efficient.

Bill Condon (32:51)

Yeah, cost efficient. Sorry, more cost efficient.

Ad Tech God (32:54)

Oh yeah, it's pretty cheap, bill. I mean 199 bucks to buy a TV is insane considering they, you know, I remember buying a TV for $2,000 and it was like 32 inches or whatever. You know it, it used to be.

Bill Condon (33:08)

Crazy at the touch, the touch of a button. So being able to, to see that and to see that growth and also the, the evolution of sort of the. You touched on packaging and bundling of, you know, video services. So if we companies are starting to realize that you need to give consumers what they want and figuring out a way to sort of package that with connectivity and services will, you know, we're talk about back to the future and what's old is new again. This idea of rebundling. I love when you talk to people these days like I just got, I got this great idea. We should take all these top streaming apps that you people buy separately and bundle them together and sell them as one service. I'm like, congratulations, you just reinvented cable. But you're starting to see that. You're starting to see that with what Verizon's doing, what Comcast is doing, Disney's bundling their own services. So we're still at the infancy here, but I do feel we're going to start to see tremendous leaps and bounds. And I made the joke earlier about ads being sexy again, but you sort of saw that where Disney launched Disney and HBO Max became Max. All these other services and this idea of everyone just going to pay for all their content, like, no, it's a value exchange. So you're starting to see that and you're starting to see the importance of advertising to sort of supplement that. And that just opens up tremendous opportunity because the shift is going to continue and people are going to continue to watch TV in this way. There'll be more podcasts for you to talk about and more conferences and events for you to put a blazer on and start talking about all these fun and exciting things that are coming. I. I couldn't be more excited, especially given my sports passion, my years at espn. I see that and I see all the things, all the challenges and you might get frustrated, but there's a lot of potential solves that are starting or being created right now to help deliver that and truly bring a great experience and value to the consumers, but more importantly to these rights holders. There's no reason there's smarter people than you and I out there figuring out these sports rights and fees and they know the opportunity and they know there is ways to monetize that and still keep their fan base and their customers, consumers happy.

Ad Tech God (35:43)

Bill, I loved your positivity and thank you. Thank you so much for being my guest today.

Bill Condon (35:49)

I am blessed and honored to be here and thank you again for inviting me.

Ad Tech God (35:55)

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech Godpod, a podcast for the people, about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates. So follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn in don't forget ETG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of ad tech innovation.