Ep. 88 From Data Lakes to Rosé at Cannes: PepsiCo's Zach Lain on Clean Signals and Creative Sparks

Summary

AdTechGod Pod – Episode 88 Summary: "From Data Lakes to Rosé at Cannes: PepsiCo's Zach Lain on Clean Signals and Creative Sparks"

Introduction and Guest Overview

In Episode 88 of the AdTechGod Pod, host AdTechGod delves into the intricate world of advertising technology with special guest Zach Lane, the Director of Global Data Partnerships at PepsiCo. Zach brings a wealth of experience from previous roles at Dow Jones, Zio, and Tap, and serves on advisory boards at OpenX and AD Exchanger. This episode offers listeners an insightful exploration of data management, creative marketing strategies, and the evolving landscape of ad tech within a major global brand.

Zach Lane’s Journey into AdTech and PepsiCo
Timestamp: [01:45] - [05:03]

Zach begins by sharing his unconventional path into the ad tech industry, rooted in a childhood fascination with the Chinese language and drawing. “[04:50]...the structure, the way meaning was layered through logic, through combination,” Zach explains, highlighting how this early interest transitioned into a formal study of law at Peking University and eventually into the data-driven realm of ad tech.

His professional journey started at Dow Jones, where he emphasized the importance of technical empathy—understanding data breakdowns and their downstream applications. This foundation led him to roles that spanned startups to large corporations, all the while nurturing his intrinsic curiosity about how things work. “[05:00]...it's about the journey and the results on that journey that have engendered both now and will in the future that I think I'm most proud of,” Zach reflects on his career trajectory.

Evolution of Data in Advertising
Timestamp: [05:31] - [07:20]

AdTechGod probes into the dynamic changes in data utilization within the advertising sector. Zach emphasizes the shift from mere data accumulation to effective data utility. “[07:20]...we have a data utility problem out there. We have plenty of data, we have plenty of signals that can lead to smart decision making. But it's about, you know, is the data in the right format, the right language, is it in the right silo,” he notes.

He discusses the necessity of robust data governance and stewardship models to transform "data lakes" into actionable insights, avoiding them turning into "data swamps." The focus is on creating a scalable framework that ensures data is not only collected but also delivered in measurable and valuable ways across PepsiCo’s extensive global markets.

Balancing Data and Creativity in Marketing
Timestamp: [08:37] - [11:50]

The conversation shifts to the intersection of data analytics and creative marketing. Zach underscores the importance of using data not just to optimize performance but to fuel creativity. “[09:49]...data helps us get there. But creativity is what makes it stick,” he asserts, explaining that effective marketing must blend emotional resonance with data-driven insights.

He references the Cannes Lions (CAN) Festival, highlighting how technological advancements are now fundamentally fueling creative processes. “[10:50]...technology isn't just enabling media delivery, but fundamentally, you know, fueling the process itself,” Zach points out, mentioning innovative tools like Springboards that utilize AI-generated "hallucinations" to spark new creative directions.

Innovations and Trends: Clean Rooms and AI
Timestamp: [14:10] - [16:26]

Zach discusses two major trends shaping the future of ad tech: clean rooms and federated data collaboration, alongside the pervasive influence of Artificial Intelligence (AI). “[14:33]...clean rooms have to become the baseline for media and data collaboration,” he emphasizes, positioning them as essential infrastructure akin to cloud computing for software.

He also touches on the cultural shift within large organizations towards prioritizing business outcomes over traditional vanity metrics. “[16:26]...outcomes is one of the words du jour now,” Zach remarks, illustrating how this shift necessitates changes in campaign briefs, partner selections, and data investments to better align with measurable business goals.

Importance and Challenges of Clean Signals
Timestamp: [18:17] - [20:56]

Delving deeper into data quality, Zach highlights the critical role of clean signals in effective data strategies. “[18:47]...the integrity, the viability of the signal is absolutely key,” he states, explaining PepsiCo’s efforts in deduplication, data cleansing, and leveraging clean rooms to ensure the reliability of their first-party data.

He elaborates on how clean signals support advanced applications like AI-driven analytics and comprehensive data activation, making them indispensable for driving accurate insights and effective marketing strategies.

Industry Challenges: Ad Fraud and Federated Data Collaboration
Timestamp: [20:11] - [25:32]

Addressing prevalent industry issues, Zach brings attention to ad fraud and the imperative of federated data collaboration. “[23:23]...we have to have industry wide pressure from industry wide groups,” he explains, advocating for collective action to establish enforceable standards that maintain the integrity of ad channels.

He expresses concern over the prisoner’s dilemma in ad tech, where the lack of coordinated efforts hinders the fight against fraud. Zach calls for a unified approach involving brands, publishers, and platforms to effectively combat fraudulent activities and uphold trust within the ecosystem.

Insights from Cannes Event
Timestamp: [12:52] - [14:33]

Zach shares his experiences from attending the Cannes Lions (CAN) Festival, emphasizing the event’s role in fostering meaningful partnerships. “[12:52]...people power the partnerships, not the tech,” he observes, highlighting that the true value of CAN lies in the relationships and collaborative efforts that emerge from face-to-face interactions and whiteboard sessions.

He advocates for consistency, value, and curiosity as key strategies for building lasting partnerships, and praises CAN for providing a conducive environment to forge and celebrate these connections.

Future Directions and Personal Passions
Timestamp: [25:55] - [26:43]

In a lighter moment, Zach reveals his personal passion for flying, expressing a desire to become a pilot if circumstances allowed. “[25:55]...without any hesitation, I would be a pilot,” he shares, illustrating his love for travel and the thrill of aviation. This personal insight provides a glimpse into the human side of Zach, balancing his technical expertise with his aspirations beyond the ad tech landscape.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with reaffirmations of the key themes discussed, emphasizing the critical balance between data integrity and creative marketing, the necessity of evolving data frameworks, and the importance of building strong industry-wide partnerships to tackle challenges like ad fraud. Zach’s insights offer a comprehensive look into the future of ad tech, underscored by his commitment to leveraging data responsibly and fostering innovation.

Notable Quotes

• “[04:50]...the structure, the way meaning was layered through logic, through combination.” – Zach Lane
• “[07:20]...we have a data utility problem out there. We have plenty of data, we have plenty of signals that can lead to smart decision making. But it's about, you know, is the data in the right format, the right language, is it in the right silo.” – Zach Lane
• “[09:49]...data helps us get there. But creativity is what makes it stick.” – Zach Lane
• “[14:33]...clean rooms have to become the baseline for media and data collaboration.” – Zach Lane
• “[23:23]...we have to have industry wide pressure from industry wide groups.” – Zach Lane
• “[25:55]...without any hesitation, I would be a pilot.” – Zach Lane

Final Thoughts

This episode of the AdTechGod Pod serves as an enlightening discourse on the current and future state of ad tech, particularly from the vantage point of a leading global brand. Zach Lane's expertise sheds light on critical aspects such as data management, creative synergy, and industry-wide collaboration, providing valuable takeaways for professionals navigating the complex advertising technology landscape.

Transcript

[Ad Tech God]

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[Ad Tech God]

Your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your host, Ad Tech God.

Welcome to the ADTech Godpod, where we speak to those connecting complex things in the advertising industry. Today I'm joined by Zach Lane, the Director Global data partnerships at PepsiCo. Zach has an impressive background, having worked at Dow Jones, Zio, Tap and now PepsiCo. He's also an advisory board member at OpenX and AD Exchanger. Zach and I have some mutual friends and so I'm looking forward to finding out if he's as nice as they say he is. Zach, welcome to the Ad Tech godpod.

[Zach Lane]

Thanks atd. I'm stoked to be here.

[Ad Tech God]

Yeah, same here. Thank you for accepting the invite. Thanks for liking my my Instagram post. I appreciate every like I get there.

[Zach Lane]

I'm actually sitting. Oh, this is not offensive. I'm sitting on the ECT God pillow right now. It's quite comfortable for my desk.

[Ad Tech God]

Oh, that's right, you got one of those security tried to grab you on the way out but didn't work. Didn't work.

[Zach Lane]

But I'm fast so.

[Ad Tech God]

But you're fast. Like I'm agile. I just made it right out of there. Nobody caught me. Zach, I'm a fan of yours. I've, I've heard you speak, I've heard you post, I've, I've heard you on other podcasts. I'm really intrigued by where you sit in the space historically. I speak to a lot of ad tech. I speak to maybe some publishers. It's rare I get a brand on here and I think it's really important to hear the perspective of someone who's working at such a well known name. So you work on global data partnerships at Pepsi, but can you take me back to how you got into the advertising industry and what brought you to PepsiCo?

[Zach Lane]

Yeah, it's a good question. ATG. I was doing some kind of soul searching with a friend raise at Lane where it's like, oh, I guess it does go back kind of far. I got into ad tech via the data side of the house and if I zoom all the way out, I think I was interested in data long before I knew what that even was. As a kid I was fascinated by the Chinese language. I love drawing, like I think lots of kids like drawing. I really like drawing and it seemed like people were drawing pictures to communicate, like that's cool. I begged my mom to, to give me Chinese classes. She signed me up for Chinese classes. You quickly learn, you know, that people aren't just drawing pictures. That's not the case. But really captivated me was the structure, the way meaning was layered through logic, through combination. That curiosity, how information is organized and can be organized led me to study law in China. I have a law degree from Peking University in Beijing. And eventually into the deeper and wider data and media space. It's a super linear path as you can probably tell here. My first industry role was at Dow Jones where I worked on the real time data products that we powered with the Wall Street Journal. Had to understand where the data broke, which it broke all the time, how it was used downstream and how it powered the variety of different partner system and platforms that this data was feeding into. It was a crash course if you will. I heard a friend call it technical empathy and sort of just like it. Overall it was one of those, I think we all probably have one of those. A real blood, sweat and tears type of role. Since then, you know, I've worked across, you mentioned a few of them. I've worked across startups, I've worked across big brands, you know, hands on keys, roles keeping the pipes open roles selling cookie less IDs, roles running data partnerships that power all things programmatic. But I think the thread that ties it together and I kind of connect it to my childhood experience is this desire to understand how things really work. My inner child that really loved drawing coming in, I think for ad tech, for me has always been a space where that type of curiosity can really thrive.

[Ad Tech God]

It's funny, your profile says connecting complex things and that's why I put it on the intro. I love it. I thought it was interesting. Data is pretty complex. It's also changing a lot. And the in depth amount of data you're able to collect and what is and what is not important is also a huge factor. How have you seen things change over the last few years, whether at PepsiCo or Prior, and what are some of the, I guess, highlights of your learnings over the last few years?

[Zach Lane]

I think one thing I want to highlight is not one item or one victory per se, it's really the arc. One arc. You know, at PepsiCo, my focus has been building frameworks that let us pilot, embed and scale new data, new solutions, new platforms, honestly, new ways of thinking, new ways of thinking responsibly so they're not just used once, but used well across the 200 plus markets that PepsiCo operates. Every time I say that out loud, it still kind of shocks me. That's a wild amount of like truly global reach. So, you know, that includes making sure new data sets don't just get adopted, but actually deliver value in ways that can be measured. Often overlooked, but you know, if we take that and zoom out a little bit, you know, that mentality and zoom out, how do we think about embedding best practices across measurement, across attribution, attention, SBL curation. All the buzzword that our industry likes to bandy about, right? But how do we do it in a holistic way? Cross brand, cross market? You know, for me, the success I've enjoyed isn't really the destination per se, but it's, it sounds a little cliche, but it's really the journey and the results on that journey that have engendered both now and will in the future that I think I'm most proud of.

[Ad Tech God]

Okay, so as a Pepsi drinker. Sorry, any other beverage companies that may listen? As a Pepsi drinker, I'm curious as to what elements of the data are important because like loyalty to brand is one thing and obviously that's information that you would somehow utilize based off of the collection methods that you have from whatever point of sale or your retail locations and the phone number association with those retail locations. But how is that utilized to improve like your media performance? Do you utilize any of that to improve your return on ad spend?

[Zach Lane]

Yeah, you're exactly right. Atg. You know, I think our challenge to highlight what I said before is really, you know, how do we use the data in the most effective way? There's not a lack of data signals out there. You know, there's a data utility problem out there. We have plenty of data, we have plenty of signals that can lead to smart decision making. But it's about, you know, is the data in the right format, the right language, is it in the right silo? Almost always the answer is absolutely not. So all of those things you mentioned and absolutely more. But it's more than just the size of the data lake, right. It's the tools, the governance, the stewardship models that, that accompany the taxonomy. You know, then you have to have the folks and the technical know how and the work stream. So it's the data, absolutely. Like the integrity and quality and quantity of the signals, absolutely important. But the scaffolding that supports it, you know, the people, just the technical workflows, the know how is absolutely critical. I think I talked to a lot of folks where, you know, I think data lakes often become data swamps when it's focused solely on the signal and sort of maximizing the signal. But it's really about the scaffolding and the, in the processes underneath that I think, you know, are key to my role and key to folks that I work with at PepsiCo.

[Ad Tech God]

When you look at what you do day to day, I'm pretty sure when you were younger you weren't thinking like, wow, I would love to work with data. Like, nothing makes me happier.

[Zach Lane]

But I mean, maybe, maybe I was.

[Ad Tech God]

Oh really?

[Zach Lane]

Were you?

[Ad Tech God]

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I, I would, yeah. I mean, but the, but the data you're able to collect, how does that from your perspective reinforce, I guess, your, your need for creativity, your, your fascination with art and ads and advertising. Do you feel that something inside you, when you see this data, like triggers something in your brain where you're like, wow, this is really cool. I can see how this is flowing and how do I make it better and what do I pick to target and what do I pick to collect?

[Zach Lane]

It's a great question. I think it kind of gets to the core of what we as an industry are trying to balance. Like, how do you balance the science of analytics with the creative side of marketing, if you will. Right. And I think that's always, you know, we just came up with can. I think that's actually a great example of it. It's a creativity festival at its core, but it's also a festival of commercial activity. Right. So how, how do we find that balance? And I think that balance is evolving. It's not. We use data and obviously I'm the data guy in a lot of rooms I'm in. Data shouldn't just optimize that performance, it has to fuel it. I think it helps us understand. Obviously this is, this is a rocket science here, but, you know, helps us understand people, uncover insights we might not have seen otherwise, and just honestly tell better stories. So, you know, I think at the end of the day, effective marketing can't feel like it came from an algorithm. It has to feel emotional and real Data helps us get there. But creativity is what makes it stick. And, but honestly, atg, just to kind of echo on the CAN reference recently, you know, coming back from can, you know, I saw Lucas Gala speak at CAN and talk about how we're entering this third age of creativity, which I thought was pretty cool. It's like, ooh, this sounds like a good LinkedIn buzzword. But also like truly, I mean that in like a positive, really cool way. Like, you know, where technology isn't just enabling media delivery, but fundamentally, you know, fueling the process itself. You know, at can, I saw this. Really, this is just me nerding out here. I am nerd.

[Ad Tech God]

I love it.

[Zach Lane]

I saw this really cool company called Springboards, which showcase generative hallucination tools, creative ideation. So it's purposely using AI to generate surprising, even inaccurate things to spark new creative direction. Kind of in my mind it kind of flips the. I don't think there's a paradigm yet, but flips the so called paradigm on, you know, policing AI errors. Instead it treats them as creative assets. You know, I had never once thought of that, never once considered that. So, you know, fascinating play at like this intersection of, of analytics and marketing here. You know, there's tons of tons of other interesting innovations happening in this space. I think Nova is doing really cool stuff. But yeah, that balance between, you know, creativity, marketing, analytics, that sort of like three way soup, if you will, is influx and honestly just super cool.

[Ad Tech God]

It's funny you mentioned the hallucination thing. It was in the refresh newsletter. I highlighted it and I think I called it hallucination as a service hass.

[Zach Lane]

Oh, I did not see that, but that's awesome.

[Ad Tech God]

Yeah, it just came out this morning and I was like laughing. I'M like, oh, my gosh. Now there's a way to take advantage of the hallucinations it creates, which is endless creativity and to kind of lead to the errors and like, sure, like, maybe there's something wrong there. But it's kind of cool that, like.

[Zach Lane]

Bleeding edge of machine creation and human creation is fascinating to me. And, you know, this is, yeah, awesome. I'm going to start using HASS now, so.

[Ad Tech God]

Thank you. Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to trademark it. But yeah, has Hallucination as a service. Sounds like it's.

[Zach Lane]

You heard it here first, folks.

[Ad Tech God]

You heard it here first. I'm buying the domain right now. When you look at the overall experience that you had at Cannes, and I'll just ask you about can, what your experience was. I know that we personally, as market had a great time. What is it about CAN that really sets it apart from other events in the space outside of being in just a beautiful setting? But where do you feel that can has filled a void for the industry that, you know, makes it worth attending and being there with everybody?

[Zach Lane]

This won't be shocking to anyone, but it's so true, though. There's one takeaway that I always come back from Ken with is that one I always walk away never wanting to drink rose again because you get that weird mossy feeling on your teeth. But joke aside, it's that people power the partnerships, not the tech. And we talk a lot about the cool stuff. It's genuinely the people, the strongest relationships I've built and are ones. It's not only about grabbing drinks with or exchanging contact QR codes or when you touch the top of your iPhones and you can exchange contact information like that, they're forged in whiteboard sessions. You know, real partnership to me has to be cumulative. So, you know, not to plug can too much as an event, but it really is a celebration of these types of cumulative partnerships that the event really shines in. So, you know, I think my personal playbook, and I think a lot of folks similarly as well, you know, is to show up consistently, bring value, stay curious, easy, 1, 2, 3. You know, that builds and compounds trust in a better way than a LinkedIn post, to be honest. And I think can does a really great job of revealing these cumulative partnerships in a. Honestly, in a really cool setting. But yeah, it's a great venue to kind of unsheath these partnerships that have been in the work, like these human partnerships, these human connections that have been in the works for months, years, even longer. So yeah, it's a great event.

[Ad Tech God]

What are some things in the industry that you're excited about, Zach? I get a lot of people talking about AI. We talked about, you know, HASS a few minutes ago. I'm going to use that everywhere. I lost a few minutes ago. Connected television is always hot. AI is always hot. But is there something in the space that you feel is really interesting to you and maybe even you don't have to say their name, but maybe solutions in the market that you're like, wow, this is really like incredible.

[Zach Lane]

Yeah, I have two answers to this ATG and one's kind of more thematic and one is definitely, I think like an under hyped trend. It's a little bit less sexy, but. And they're very different. I'll touch on both a little bit. I think, you know, everyone talks about or has for the last few years been talking about clean rooms. I am super bullish on clean rooms, especially when you pair them with federated data sharing models. Very much in my wheelhouse. They're foundational and they will be, they have to be table stakes going forward. You know, the holy grail, albeit probably a bit aspirational, is that they allow us to keep data decentralized while unlocking, et cetera, unlocking smarter measurement, better attribution, safer data activation. It's great. You know, in the same way that cloud became a baseline infrastructure for software, clean rooms have to become the baseline for media and data collaboration. I think AI is exciting and obviously that's more than exciting. It's here, it's giant. But you know, AI needs clean signal and I think clean rooms are where, you know, this signal gets the fun. I've had lots of conversations, you know, with the HABU folks, with Lauren Wetzel and the folks at Infosam and what they're doing. Really, really cool stuff on both of those. And I think secondly, the other thing that is totally different that I wanted to touch on, that I think is a cool innovation or maybe like an underhyped trend to some degree. Is the cultural shift happening inside large organizations? You know, I think for me, and I think I have a good perch internally at a very large company to see this success was measured by so called vanity metrics, right click through reach, delivery rates, et cetera. You know, now I'm seeing a shift toward business outcomes. You know, I feel like outcomes is one of the words du jour now. Right. You know, my stakeholders are asking different questions. Did this, you know, did this accelerate demand velocity? Did this move a high value segment X, Y, Z. You know this isn't rocket science, right? This isn't crazy.

[Ad Tech God]

No, it's not. But it's important.

[Zach Lane]

It's super important. That shift changes everything we do. It changes how we brief campaign, it chooses how we choose partners, it chooses how we invest in data and create a constellation of vendors that we work with. So, you know, I said this. I was at the Stream TV event in Denver a week before Ken a few weeks ago, you know, and one of the things that I talked about there was that we have to resist the temptation to declare victory over metrics that don't matter. And I'm seeing that more and more shift that the glacier is starting to melt. In this case, it's a good thing. Internally, I'm seeing my stakeholders upskill, evolve. So it's this cultural shift. I feel like I never really heard anybody talk about this. Maybe it's a prominent brand perspective here, but it's something that I think is extremely impactful and will change how big brands like ours kind of interact with the wire ecosystem.

[Ad Tech God]

Well, October 27th is market live outcomes conference. So we are also seeing the value there. I posted something on LinkedIn a few weeks ago about like, outcomes are not new. Like how is this ever not a core focus? Like we should have been focusing on this. But I think we get blinded. I think everybody gets blinded. Like we do, like what was, you know, but what's the actual outcome of this campaign? What are you actually driving here? Everything else backs out into those other vanity metrics. Sure, totally. Like you need those to, to understand how you had that outcome. But the focus really moved away for a long time and so it's good to hear it's back.

[Zach Lane]

I totally agree. I think, you know, there's vanity metrics, if you will. They play a role. They can tell us how efficiently we spent money. Great. But they don't actually connect with how efficiently did we actually move the needle on, you know, outcomes, things that really matter. So yeah, totally agree there.

[Ad Tech God]

Awesome. You mentioned clean signal and I don't think I've ever thought about that and probably never considered the importance of a clean signal for AI specifically. Like, sure, we want clean signals, but I never considered that. How, how much of a focus is that for Pepsi to just, you know, make sure or for yourself in your day to day job, how important are clean signals and what's the challenge around it and what's the positive and negative impact of signal for what you do?

[Zach Lane]

It won't surprise anybody, but for a company like ours, clean signal is absolutely imperative. We, we don't have a lot of direct touch points with the end consumer.

[Ad Tech God]

Right.

[Zach Lane]

So our first party data generation strategy, a huge tenet of our data strategy in general is about, you know, understanding the consumer in new and novel ways. So that means we need to understand more about them directly. We have a lot, we, we do have a lot of first party data, but transparently, you know, we are always on the quest to improve the quality of it. Right. You know, how many people are downloading XYZ app or doing, you know, entering their email and XYZ promotion. So the integrity, the viability of the signal is absolutely key. So, you know, we're doing a lot in clean room environments. You know, we're doing a lot of deduplication, we're doing a lot of cleansing with other identity stacks with some of our trusted partners. So absolutely key. And I think clean rooms help us get there. You know, there's other tools in the toolkit as well here, but just to kind of hype up clean rooms a little bit, you know, we use them as a trusted source, not just for matching data sets. But you know, we're starting to dabble in like how do we do more activation from, how do we do more measurement and planning in. So it's the sort of one stop shop or at least we are aiming for it to be.

[Ad Tech God]

Where in the industry it's so different talking to a brand because your perspective is so different. So my question for you is when you look at the overall direction of the digital advertising industry, whether it's policy changes, whether it's data collection practices, whether it's AI, whether it's consolidation in the space, you may have, you know, less partners to work with in the future. Maybe you don't, maybe you will. But what keeps you going and what is something an ad tech vendor today that's listening to this because there are a lot of them that listen, what do they need to do to catch your ear and catch your attention rather than maybe blind emails and you know, DMs on LinkedIn.

[Zach Lane]

There are two big topics, two thematic topics that I, I think about a lot. I don't want to say they give me trouble falling asleep, but you know, I speak about a lot at different events. So anything that can touch to these certainly sparks my interest. And again, we can probably break these down into different lenses of privacy attribution, you name it. But two things that I think, you know, ad tech is going in the next few years that will definitely catch my eye is about, you know, federated data collaboration, that has to be that. I don't want to say it will be the norm for, you know, next generation of marketing. But you know, we at PepsiCo are moving from bilateral, even multi party partnerships to more holistic clean room environments where media measurement, retail signals, you name it, all can converge. Planning, analytics, you know, aren't going to be separate anymore and they're going to begin to happen in that same collaborative space. So you know, these mutual models for decision making. I heard someone say that mutual models for decision making, ooh, I love that. Is a structural leap. I don't want to say it's a structural leap forward, but it's a structural leap from how we operate now from just simply matching data sets. So you know, anything that kind of speaks to this, you know, will always be top of mind for me. And secondly, you know, very differently but something that I personally am very passionate about and I've talked to a lot of different vendors at CAN and OH and and elsewhere about it is ad fraud. You know, ad fraud is not a very sexy topic, but it's evolving faster than, you know, faster than detection. And you know, we have to keep up. I saw maybe like half a year ago Mark Sigorsky and Orrin Hoffman on Orrin Hoffman's podcast. He has a great anecdote about the risk is eroded trusts, right? It's not just wasted spend which is obviously mammoth. We can't solve for this one vendor at a time. We have to have industry wide pressure from industry wide groups. You know who you are for enforceable standards, right? Brands, pubs, platforms, there has to be some sort of shared incentive here to keep the channel clean. Otherwise I think at best we're just playing whack a mole here with problems that will never fully uproot. So ATG to your point about, you know, things that kind of keep me up at night. And you know what would pique my interest? You know, these types of big thematic conversations, federated data collaboration and the very unsexy topic of fraud are very, very top of mind. So anything you can touch that will always catch my attention.

[Ad Tech God]

It's funny you touched up on, on the fraud piece. Like you know, the banking sector has a know your business policy, right? Like they have to have access to who the person is, the individual that has the bank account where the money's, so that they can, you know, track and monitor whether there's anything happening that's not kosher. When we talk about advertising, like it's very rare, right? Like there is no Formal body that monitors that outside of truly the banking system. And one thing that is a concern to me is that a lot of the inventory itself, a lot of the inventory that is not real or is spoofed or is not of a high quality is pretty easily detectable by being selective with your partners. Yes. Taking a look at where you're buying, having a very buttoned up allow list, making sure that you recognize the names, confirming the, you know, whatever the bundle IDs are, the channels are the formats that are coming through. A lot of it can be cleaned up with some minimal effort, which is why in one aspect I make fun of spoil often and they say, oh, well, great, congratulations. Like, here's your SPO strategy, like, fantastic. But the reality is, is that a lot of the SPO and the curated trends just come down to can you give me better data, better lists, like, clean up the list. And if that's focused on, a lot of it will be cut out. But I think a lot of the lists that are out there are huge and there's still 20, 30,000, you know, line items which nobody can spot check with their eyes, but hopefully they get reduced. I think most of the spend comes through a few handfuls of publishers.

[Zach Lane]

I totally agree. I think, you know, there's not to like echo some other parts necessarily, but it's like a lot of this isn't rocket science. I think we know what we need to do. It's sort of the prisoner's dilemma a little bit. We all kind of have to act in concert and it's just not for a variety of reasons. Financially, certainly operationally there's just a large barrier to entry for this sort of joint effort. But, you know, that's a problem for tomorrow.

[Ad Tech God]

I guess that's a different. We'll have that on a different pod. Yeah, yeah, we'll do a different pod. Okay, last question for you because I know you travel a lot and I've seen you all over the world, which is pretty incredible that you get to do that. What do you think you'd be doing if you weren't working in this industry? Like, what are you truly passionate about and where do you find your time or your mind wandering to, you know, wishing you were doing, oh, in another.

[Zach Lane]

Life, slash, hopefully when I don't live in New York City, when it's a little bit cheaper to do, I would be a pilot. Easy. I love flying. I think a lot of my travel and my interest in travel, you know, I've been to. Jeremy mentioned something, the country, it was 94 or something. This is great. And I love traveling. I also love flying. I love being at the airport. I love, I don't say I love on that one, but I love that feeling of just like, wow, you could fall asleep and be in the other side of the world. So, you know, when I don't live in New York and have to go out to Teterboro or something, like ridiculously expensive for me to get a pilot's license. Maybe if I move to Florida or something, then I can do it. So I would, 100%, without any hesitation, I would be a pilot.

[Ad Tech God]

That's it. PepsiCo data division in Miami, Florida.

[Zach Lane]

Easy.

[Ad Tech God]

Sold. Zach, thank you so much for being here. Thank you to PepsiCo for having you as my guest. I really do appreciate your time and and thank you.

[Zach Lane]

Thank you.

[Ad Tech God]

Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech Godpod, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of adtech.

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