← AdTechGod Pod
AdTechGod Pod
Ep. 99 The CIO Perspective: Kelly Metz from Spark Foundry on AI, CTV, and Simplicity in Media
00:31:04
Loading summary
Transcript34 lines
- [00:01]
A
This podcast is brought to you by Vyant. Still investing in paid search? Hoping to grow your business? Tides are shifting, AI tools have arrived and in the end search is simply capturing existing customers that already know your brand. The real growth is in creating new demand on ctv where attention is high and co viewing is the norm. Vyant's AI powered DSP puts your brand on the largest screen in the home across premium streaming content, including live sports, driving real outcomes. See why Vayant leads in ctv@vyantctv.com that's vyantctv.com hey, this is Ari with Market and unless you've been living under a rock, you've probably heard that Marketecture Live is coming up October 27th in New York City. The last Market Live was sold out and this one will surely be as well. With speakers like Mark Grether of PayPal, Eric Seufert of Mobile Dev Memoir, and Jenny Wall from Videoamp Plus, I'll be recording my podcast live with the one and only Antonio Garcia Martinez, author of Chaos Monkeys and now part of the team building at Coinbase. It's a stacked agenda and we hope to see you there. Go to market your live.com and grab your ticket while they're still available. That's marketexturelive.com welcome to the AdTech Godpod.
- [01:21]
B
Your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your ad tech God. Welcome to the AdTech God Pod, where I speak with the female leaders of our industry. Today's guest is Kelly Metz, the Chief Investment Officer at Spark Foundry, a leading media agency within Publicis Media. Kelly brings a wealth of experience to her role, having recently joined Spark Foundry after nearly two years at OMD and three years at Omnicom Media Group. Her career also spans impactful positions at videoamp, Adobe, Yahoo and more. Coming from an ad tech background myself, I'm always curious to hear the agency side of the story. It's a world I haven't necessarily lived directly, so these conversations give me a fresh perspective on what's happening in the world of advertising. Kelly, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks and welcome to the pod.
- [02:14]
C
Absolutely my pleasure to be here.
- [02:16]
B
Amazing. Thank you. We were chatting before. I feel like we could have. We should have just recorded that whole conversation. We could have had a great story.
- [02:23]
C
We'll get into lots of banter today. I have no doubt.
- [02:26]
B
Callie, you worked in the ad tech space. You've worked at some pretty big names. I mean Omnicom, omd, Adobe, Yahoo and now with Spark Foundry, I would love for you to take it back a little bit and just let me know how you reach the position you're at. As such an influential female in the space. I think it's really important for the listeners to hear it.
- [02:45]
C
Well, I think I look back at my career and I was enormously fortunate to work at Yahoo. Right Media in the beginning of the programmatic era, meeting all kinds of people and companies and people who were just so innovative and approaching advertising in a completely different way. So that really kicked it off. And that peer group that I established, those friendships, the fun, everything we got into in those days, really set me up for my entire career. If I look at everything I did subsequently, it was all based on that initial experience. And, and I would say that is my recommendation to the world, is find a place you love to be with the people that are really fun to be with and learn, because that is the best setup for your career.
- [03:33]
B
Truly, I've never understood people who do not treat co workers nicely and do not lean into the relationship piece. I feel like they have a chip on their shoulder for some reason. Kelly, I can tell just from chatting with you prior that you're a likable person, like someone who's probably gets stuff done but, you know, also understands that, you know, the importance of building that trust and relationship with your colleagues and partners is also important.
- [03:57]
C
Absolutely. And most importantly, I didn't go into brain surgery. I'm in media. Media is inherently fun. We do amazing things for brands and no one is dying on the table. So this is definitely an industry. It's a great community. It's a lot of fun to be a part of. And the most beautiful thing about this industry is you're never bored. There is constant change happening across the board and that is something that everyone should embrace.
- [04:24]
B
Truly, I think that's probably the most exciting part. It's one thing if an industry remains the same, but when it changes this much, you almost can't disconnect from it. Like, if you stop learning, you really sort of die on the vine. Like, there's. There's no way for you to grow. So the constant innovation keeps it interesting and it just keeps you, you know, learning on a weekly basis. There's sometimes products roll out or solutions roll out that nobody knows. So we're all learning together and understanding how it impacts the space. Kelly, I would love to hear about Spark Foundry. I'm familiar with them being under the Publicis Media Group. What specific verticals do you guys work on? I'd love to hear your perspective of what type of clients you work on, what you guys do with them, and what you're trying to address with some of your clients.
- [05:14]
C
So what attracted me to Spark and to Publicis writ large is truly the diversity of clients. So at Spark, we have a client roster that spans everything from B2B technology to ice cream to, you know, paper goods. You name it, we've got it. We've got qsr. There is never a moment that I am not challenged to think about some new business issue or concern. Concern. And that's what keeps it interesting and fun. And I would say that is the beauty of Spark and the beauty of the clients we work with across almost every single vertical, including pharma. So I think the reality of Spark is that we are constantly adapting because of our diversity and how we function, and the way we exchange ideas and information across the entire agency is what keeps us vibrant and transforming in terms of our approach to client business. It's just always on, always engaged. And truly the ideation and the sharing across the verticals is what keeps the innovation flowing, I would say, from group to group, it's kind of magic. There's no other way to describe it.
- [06:29]
B
It must be really interesting to be able to work with both the client side and the media partners that you work with. There's probably this balance of relationship building and partnerships that you need to build on. Can you tell me, from a CIO's perspective, a CIO's role, what that means for you having to work with both the client side and the media partnership side?
- [06:51]
C
I honestly think I have the most fun role in an agency being in investment because we represent not just advertisers needing to think differently and do differently, but we represent real money and value to our partners, so they pay attention and we get to do a lot of amazing work on technology collaboration, creative collaboration. I'm never bored. And I would say the investment practice is the closest to the always on innovation because of how we work with these partners. They are constantly changing their technology stacks, their audience capabilities, their privacy capabilities, you name it. They're moving at a very, very, very fast clip. And it's really our role in investment to make sure our clients keep pace and in some cases stay ahead of that pace so that they're constantly prepared for marketplace evolution. And that is what makes investment, in my mind, best thing to do in advertising is work between clients and partners and make sure that media performs to its best possible capacity.
- [07:59]
B
Coming from an ad tech background, having worked at videoamp, having worked at Adobe Yahoo, how has that helped you manage those partners? Because of the tech's constant change, I'm assuming there needs to be a really good understanding of the foundational technology behind it. But I'd love to hear about how that background helped you with your current role today and helps you have the right conversations. A word from our sponsors Every day. Your digital campaigns are missing nearly 40% of their target audiences due to identity fragmentation. That means that nearly half of your audience is invisible, unmeasured and unmonetized. Reach out to find your 40@adform.com that's the number 40. To see what that missing 40% could mean for your revenue, reach out to us again. That's find your fortydform.com.
- [08:57]
C
I would say it's almost essential to my current role today. So understanding how data moves, how data is structured, the context of the data. Single biggest lesson I learned early on with technology is just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. Understanding the implications of where the technology may take you. And certainly in the early days of display advertising, we certainly had some hard lessons around consumer privacy. I think the real value of coming from a technology background in an investment role is you understand what partners are talking about when they come to you with real technical blockers versus not real technical blockers. You're able to discern and understand what should be possible and what truly is just a business decision on their part, which makes you in a much better position to negotiate on behalf of your clients and you become a much stronger partner overall with all of your media vendors because you understand what they have to do to succeed. You understand how expensive it is, you understand how long it should take. But and you understand if it's even good for their business to be doing some of the things your clients may be asking for. So it makes you a very empathetic partner, but it also makes you a very tough partner because you, you know a lot more than, than most I would say in terms of, of what should be happening.
- [10:17]
B
What do you hear the most from, from your, your clients today? What are some of the, the requests that you get or, or hear about? I know that compliance is a piece. Data is a piece of AI might be a beast.
- [10:29]
C
You said the word. You said it.
- [10:31]
B
All of them. I had to. I feel like I'm just going to rename myself to AI Tech Guy because it's just so hot. But like it really is becoming such a normal conversation for us. But I mean what Are those things that clients are really asking for?
- [10:45]
C
It is interesting because clients often, let's take our favorite topic, AI, as an example. Clients are often thinking of AI in different ways than we might think of it broadly. In media, we look at it in a multitude of ways in terms of creative capabilities, you know, dynamic creative capabilities, mapping personal journeys, better insights, better capabilities overall, quite frankly, just improving automation across some of our ad tech platforms. There are all these different implications around AI and what you can be doing with this type of technology. But the thing we hear most from clients is this expectation of efficiency. Just all of a sudden there's this expectation that there's going to be less people. And what's interesting about that vis a vis, let's say, other technological advancements is we kind of know that's not true. In the early stages of a new technology, you actually have to invest more, not less, to get where you need to go. And then over time, the cost of, of leveraging that technology diminishes and you achieve the true efficiency. So I would say that's, that's one of the nuances I think that's happening right now is is this expectation that there is just going to be efficiency overnight because AI capabilities are now here in a variety of different ways, and that is just not holding to be true. So that's an interesting conversation that we're having with clients right now. The other conversation with clients that I would say is pretty specific to our agency and our capabilities is a deeper understanding of audience and how it can inform, not just audience targeting. We're moving past audience targeting. How can it inform your bid strategies? How can it inform your negotiation strategies? How does a deeper understanding of your consumer and how they're interacting with the whole world really inform what you want to do? From a planning and activation perspective, I would say that's a unique advantage and a conversation we're having all the time at Spark. It's a fun one because there's this real power when you marry deep insight around your consumer with behavioral activity that a lot of the platform players can bring to the table. And that combination is really going to drive a lot of, a lot of innovation and quite frankly, just results for our advertisers.
- [12:56]
B
What does a result look like? I know that you deal with so many different verticals. There's so many media partners in the space. What are some of those results that, you know, a particular vertical looks for? Are we looking at outcomes, which just happens to be the name of our conference coming up? What would an outcome look like? What would a result look like for a type of vertical that you work with today?
- [13:20]
C
So everyone wants an outcome, but to your point, an outcome looks different for every client. So I mean we have well known performance outcomes. When you think about what's possible in terms of optimizing to an outcome or buying against an outcome, you know, app downloads, time spent with a media type account, opens all kinds of basic data points, metrics, signals that you can gather from the world. I would say the single biggest innovation we're looking at as an industry and in terms of our understanding of insights and data around the consumer and what we're able to do is this concept of lifetime value, long term consumer value. Because you hear all the talk about the balance between brand and demand and it's because marketers are fundamentally lacking insights around long term value and how advertising affects that for not just your brand or your product or your limited time offer, but how it's going to affect everything overall, all the time. And we took it for granted historically in the media industry because TV just did all that hard work. But now we have to quantify and measure that work because we're doing it in so many unique and highly targeted ways in the new media ecosystem. And I think that that's one of the coolest things we're working on in terms of an outcome is understanding lifetime value and how a specific partner and or medium is contributing to that over time in a way that we can now influence real time bidding and marketplaces.
- [14:59]
B
So I want to go back just maybe one step. You had mentioned the impact of AI, that it would drive efficiency, which it will in many ways, and that, you know, there, there is a general industry wide view that it would reduce potentially the number of resources that you need. I listened to a guy this morning and I really wish I could remember his name. Like I mentioned I woke up at like 4:30 in the morning. I had nothing to do but be quiet in my house. But he was talking about the impact of AI. And the impact of AI is almost so good for the industry overall, not just advertising, but the technological industry overall. But that people are preaching that because of AI less work needs to be done. But in reality the investment should be made in putting more people into AI and expanding on what you can output. And I think that's a common misconception that AI will reduce the number of resources you need in any particular space. But the truth is, is that it will 10x the output that it creates. And so why would you want to step back and Stay level on your growth and your output when you could keep the same people and 10x your output. And it's almost a weird backwards way of thinking that everybody thinks about is how do we do the same with less people? But notes, how do we do 10x with the same people? And it's just a reverse way of thinking about the impact of AI that I think this person, wish I knew his name, looked at it, and I totally agree, do more with the same people rather than do the same with less.
- [16:37]
C
It's shifting the narrative, right? Because if you think about what people are asking for, they're asking for efficiency, not productivity. But AI is a productivity tool that there will be benefits around efficiency for sure, but it is about improving outputs and outcomes, truly. I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with that, with that narrative. I think that's exactly right.
- [16:58]
B
Kelly, working with so many different brands leading investment at Spark Foundry, where do you see things heading in terms of the way brands or verticals work with you? The types of media that they're looking into, Connected Television is huge now. We obviously get a lot of data points. How has that changed and shifted the way brands are working with you and what they're looking for in terms of their media partners?
- [17:24]
C
You know, it's interesting because the shift to connected television has turned a medium that was once one to many and very effective in the one to many format to a one by one cumulative reach format. And that is good and bad. I would say we are actively trying to create the awareness medium that our clients need by working through a variety of different media channels. So we're looking to influential and influencers in social to really drive brand equity and brand lift because we're seeing in actual measurable results, real impact for our clients. And that typically was a role that TV would play, traditional TV would play. So what our clients are asking for are the same metrics, but they have to be delivered in new ways because of the changing consumer, consumer patterns. And I think that that's, that's what they're asking for. An agency like Spark to deliver is. Everything got so complex. Please simplify this for us. Give us reliable insights that help us navigate this market ecosystem. And by the way, can you also make it similarly priced so our marketing budgets aren't going through the roof because now there's so many things to buy and you have to measure the effectiveness or you're not doing it right. So I would say they're looking for simplicity and they're looking for consultative capabilities around how to do this better. What that ultimately means and translates to from a spark investment perspective is it enables fluidity and flexibility. And we need to reflect that not only in the marketplace, but in how we service clients and how we show up as a holistic team, navigating this for them. Because they're never going to have the media expertise that we would inside an agency. It's too complex. There are too many new things occurring all the time. It is literally our jobs to simplify that and bring the right things forward. So I would say that's kind of the coolest thing right now about being in an agency is moving from, I would say, looking at an investment role as buying to we're actual media consultants. We're actually in there thinking about how, why, where to buy, and influencing a lot more for our clients than we had in the past.
- [19:45]
B
Shifting gears a little. You are obviously an influential woman in the space. You have an incredible background. You're leading investment at a major company. How do you navigate the personal and professional balance of working in the industry and what truly keeps you happy and balanced day to day, month to month, year to year, the longer you are in this industry?
- [20:10]
C
Ooh, that's. That's a good question. I. It's deep. You're really going there. Really going there. I would say it's really hard at an agency to achieve that. That work, life balance, I think, and that reflects sort of who an agency attracts, honestly. You don't work at an agency if you don't want to be constantly challenged and always on, truly. And so to some extent, I invited that into my life and really enjoy it. It keeps me constantly mentally stimulated, but also over time, I think we talked about this earlier. It's the people and the time you spend with people. And I would say early in my career, I kept work and life very separate. Now, work is life. Life is work, for better or worse. And I think it's for the better because I really love the people I work with and I love the work I'm doing, and I like to be an open book. And I make sure that people know my family, they know my dogs, they know my husband. They, you know, they. They get a sense of me as a real human, and I get a sense of them as a real human. And it's about respect, and that motivates me, and that keeps me calm and de. Stressed in moments where it could be very stressful. If you have that trust and that personal relationship, then work is life, and life is work, and everything is fine. But, you know, basically, I go to the beach. I go to the beach, my friend. I go to the beach. I play a lot of pickleball.
- [21:30]
B
When I'm having a tough day, I go to the beach. Oh, are you a pickleball player? I, you know, I've never, I've never played. I was talking to a friend of mine who works at a, at a tech company and he's like, man, this is the greatest sport ever. I don't know how I didn't play this before. I got to try it out because I need, I need an outlet right now. Podcasting is it. Sometimes a few unhinged tweets might come out, but for the most part, like, I need, I need to pickleball. That's what I need to do.
- [21:54]
C
Pickleball is basically ping pong on a life size. I mean, a full size court. You're basically on a ping pong table, but you're standing up. It's, it's really fun and you can get a lot of aggression out in a very fun way. It's very social. Highly recommend.
- [22:07]
B
I'm going to try it out. Kelly, I really, really wanted to thank you and thank you to Spark Foundry for having you as my guest. I really enjoyed the chat.
- [22:15]
C
I appreciate you and I enjoy the podcast, so hopefully others will enjoy this one too.
- [22:20]
B
Thank you, Kelly. Talk to you soon.
- [22:22]
D
Hey, party people, it's Amelia from Architecture. Kick off Advertising Week in September style on Monday, October 6th at the Madison Ave returns party. Over 300 agencies, brands and leaders all under one roof at Virgin Hotels, New York City. Want your brand front and Center. Sponsors and VIPs get priority access. Lock it in now at ECH God events.com and stick around. The Refresh with Kate is coming up next. Hello and welcome back to the Refresh, your weekly download on what went down in advertising. Hi, I'm Kate with Marketexture and today is Tuesday, September 30th. This week we're talking about the start of Google's adtech antitrust trial remedies phase. Google's Gemini being integrated into Chrome and IIS being acquired by private equity firm NovaCap. Before we kick off, shout out to our sponsor Adforum for their support. 40% of Internet users are unreachable on cookieless browsers due to identity fragmentation, causing wasted impressions, inflated CPAs and revenue loss. Reclaim your audience and find your 40 with Adform. Now let's get into it. September generally means back to school, but for Google, it means back to court. As they entered into the remedies phase of their AdTech antitrust trial on Monday. Personally, I'm affectionately referring to this case as literally the only thing that can get anyone outside of ad tech to be interested in ad tech, including those who work in the broader advertising industry. Think of this as adtech Antitrust Part two Picking up from Part one that concluded back in April when Judge Leonie Brinkema found Google guilty of maintaining a monopoly over ADext, their ad exchange and DFP their ad server. The proposed remedies for this case are divided along two structural versus Behavioral, with the DOJ and Google landing neatly on each side. The DOJ is seeking structural remedies, which primarily focus on divestiture of ADX and dfp. Critics argue that these structural remedies would be too disruptive and technically challenging to implement. Google, on the other hand, is proposing remedies that fall along the lines of behavioral fixes, including making real time bid amounts visible to all those participating in auctions, as well as ending unified pricing rules and allowing publishers to set different floor prices. Which, as some in the industry will tell you, is a limitation that never should have existed in the first place. Google also promises not to use first look and Last look dynamics, a practice the company ended several years ago but promised not to pick back up under their remedies proposal. The DOJ and Google skeptics argue that behavioral remedies would give Google too much leeway to either circumvent these remedies or exploit exploit loopholes in them. Right now, Judge Brinkema is needing to determine if forced divestiture of DFP and or ADEX would not only break Google's monopoly, but also the larger open web ecosystem, with publishers absorbing most of the fallout, or whether these remedies could even reinvigorate a market that's changed dramatically since the events of nearly a decade ago that laid the groundwork for this case. Which brings up a tangential question. Will Judge Brinkama follow Judge Mehta's lead from the search antitrust case and determine that the overall digital advertising landscape has changed, so much so that more severe remedies are no longer necessary? Overall, both this antitrust case and Google Search antitrust case have made one thing abundantly clear. At this point, our legal system moves far too slowly to keep appropriate pace with technology's advancement and evolution, and without more rigid regulation in place or immediate enforcement of existing rules, we'll continue to see these scenarios play out. Moving over to another Google centered headline, if you're a Google Chrome user in the US and about 53% of you are. You may have noticed a little star in the upper right hand corner of your browser. That's because Starting last Thursday, September 18, Google is integrating Gemini, its AI assistant, into Chrome. The integration will launch on desktop for now, but is expected to roll out on mobile in the not too distant future. So far, Google seems to be using a similar playbook to its answer engine competitors like ChatGPT when it comes to the features that define an AI browser or an AI system assistant in a browser. Things like summarization or clarification of information and answers based on page content, along with the ability to chat live and out loud with Gemini Live. Gemini will also be able to tap into Google's ecosystem and coordinate and complete tasks across various Google products like Calendar, Maps and YouTube. Google expects to expand these task completion capabilities and roll out the ability to use AI mode, their answer engine equivalent to ChatGPT, directly within the search bar. You'll notice that a lot of the news surrounding AI assistants or AI agents lately focus on the browser. So why is that? The browser is the gateway to the Internet. It enables comprehensive data collection and connection of those data points and allows for greater control over how AI capabilities and tools are built outside of the browser. One of the only other desirable deeper layers these answer engine companies could hope to integrate into or own would be the operating system on a device that's itself. The integration of Gemini into Chrome comes on the heels of Google's slap on the wrist remedies verdict that concluded their search antitrust trial saga. The final remedies there more or less boil down to Google being required to share some of its search data with qualified competitors and not being able to establish contracts that secure them as the exclusive provider of search services. Agreements like the one it has with Apple, though, where they're not the exclusive provider per se, are still fair game. Recent headlines have indicated that Meta is also interested in using Google's Gemini to improve some of their ad products. While Judge Meta seemed to have accounted for the ways AI search has disrupted the market and let potential competitors get a foot in the door, he doesn't seem to have anticipated that Google is planning to continue to play a game of my house, my rules. Google doesn't just build products, it builds ecosystems. That's what secured their dominance in the first place, and it's what will continue to secure it. Even if the Big G seems to be sitting on their heels for most of the AI race to date, they've massively accelerated their AI rollouts in recent months. Don't call it a comeback. Finally, after keeping a relatively low profile, ias, AKA Integral Ad Science, made major headlines last week. The media verification and measurement vendor will be acquired by NovaCap, a Canadian private equity group, in a deal worth $1.9 billion. This deal will also take Integral Ad Science private. Under the terms of the agreement, Nova Cap will purchase all outstanding ias shares at $10.30 per share in cash, or roughly 22% premium over its most recent closing price. The deal has received unanimous approval from IAS's board of directors as well as written consent from a majority of shareholders. It's expected to close before the end of 2025, pending customary regulatory approvals. IAS is often mentioned alongside the likes of DoubleVerify and Pixelate, and is known for its tools that ensure digital ads are viewable, authentic and brand safe while also enabling media optimization across platforms and devices. IAS AI led platform as a competitive differentiator and its recent history of steady revenue growth are both factors that make it an enticing opportunity for Nova Cap, who earlier this year raised about $1 million for a fund designated for investments in digital infrastructure. Nova Cap views this acquisition as a long term bet on the future of ad tech, with stakeholders from both organizations noting that Nova Cap's financial backing will fuel expansion of ias, AI and data science capabilities, accelerate product development and solidify IIS's standing within the ad verification space. The acquisition also disentangles IIS from the pressures and limitations that come with operating in the public market. Overall, media verification is evolving from traditional methods of brand safety, protection and ad fraud prevention into newer methodologies. These methodologies aren't just helping advertisers manage brand safety and issues of ad fraud, but are often evaluating the programmatic support supply chain on a more granular and or real time basis. Think products that enable metadata analysis like Sincera, which is now owned by the Trade desk, and Scope 3's large language model supported custom AI solutions. These newer products are challenging the norm for how media quality is evaluated and managed. IIS may be looking to lean further into developing products that incorporate these emerging techniques as a means of staying competitive and differentiated in what has largely been a fairly homogenous product market to date. Zooming out further, the deal reflects a growing trend. Private equity firms have injected more than $25 billion into ad tech and digital infrastructure since 2022, often targeting companies with proven AI credentials and defensible market positions. For ias, the deal presents an opportunity to innovate at a faster pace and contribute to the evolving standards of quality and accountability in the global advertising ecosystem. That's all we have time for today. Thanks for joining us for the refresh. And we'll catch you.
- [30:49]
B
Sam.