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Ep.125 Inside the Modern Agency: Publicis Groupe’s Linsey Loy on Measurement, Trust & What CMOs Need
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A
welcome to the Ad Tech Godpod, your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your host, Ad Tech God. Welcome to the ITech God Pod, where we speak to advertising agency leaders. Today's guest is Lindsay Loy, head of Strategic development and Executive Engagement at Publicis Group. Lindsay has been at Publicis Group for three and a half years, having held multiple roles, and prior to that she had some time at Brand Tech Group, iProspect, Dentsu, TBWA and more. She's an amazing leader. We have a bunch of mutuals in the industry, so this makes it a lot more casual and fun. Lindsay, thank you for joining me. And thanks for joining the pod.
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C
Oh, I'm stoked to be here. I've been listening to you for a while and yeah, that makes me sound like I've been so many different places, but it's so true. This industry is incredibly volatile.
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A
It is volatile. It's also wild. It's like the agency world as well. There was so many, like, mergers, acquisitions, rebranding. Like we've seen that even recently.
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C
Sure is. And it's very incestual.
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A
Yeah, it is. And then like the agency teams just like move around, sometimes with accounts, sometimes not with accounts. And so you find that, you know, as small as the ad tech industry is, I think the agency industry is just as small.
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C
Funny enough though, there's. I think there's more agencies out there than actual brands.
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A
That's a wild stat.
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C
It's real. I believe it.
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A
Google it and it's crazy. Yeah, I'm actually going to look that up because I did not know that
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C
there's more than brands that need to be supported.
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A
It's incredible. You know, I spoke to someone a couple weeks ago that worked with kind of like the smaller brands, like very hyperlocal type of agency. And the names they were, you know, firing off were names I had never heard of. And I'm like, what size clients do you work with? And they said 1 to 10 million a year in annual spend. I'm like, okay, maybe there's a lot more that sits in that bucket. But I don't know if a publicity group would pick up a client that has a million spend per year, probably more than staff costs. So, yeah, there's a need for agencies. Just, you know, also depends on the size of the client.
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C
There's a need for agencies and there's. There's an agency fit for everybody. Right. That's why we've got options.
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A
Yes, totally. Lindsey, I'd love to hear it from you. You're obviously an executive at a major holdco. You have a fantastic background and just great experience overall. I'd love to hear from you. How, how did you reach where you're at today? And maybe just take the listeners back to how you got to where you are.
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C
Yeah. So in my current job, if you told me what I'd be doing now, back when I first graduated school and was pounding the pavement, it. The two look very different from one another. However, when I really break them down, there's some themes that are, that, that stand true. So I started interning in college. Right. Freshman year and commuting into New York City. So the days in college and studying communications where I thought broadcast journalism was going to be my future, you know, that's where I learned time management and like the, the craft of journalism per se, but really the work ethic of every single summer commuting for those four years through college was, was really where I learned this industry and the hustle that it requires. And I kind of started taking that drug. But quickly after college, where I went to Monmouth University down the Jersey Shore. Quickly after college, I got a job at Fox 5 News in New York City on the Upper east side with Rosanna Scotto and Ernie and Astis. And I was working in a newsroom, but there was no windows. And I was working during the times when everyone was at home with their families or dating and enjoying their time off. And it was easily very clearly became evident to me that this was not necessarily the Life I wanted to live, but I knew I wanted a hustle and some kind of thing to rev me up. Like when you're in news, you get an adrenaline rush. And so that adrenaline rush was essentially what I was chasing, which eventually I landed in a production company in New Jersey, then a small advertising agency in New Jersey where I was able to kind of get that same adrenaline rush, but more from a BD capacity. So I started building my way up on creative side and then moved into media and then eventually tech. But I have been a chief growth officer for three different times, leading pitch teams, working with clients, understanding what they're telling me, what they're not telling me, hand selecting and building teams, putting together, you know, really moving business forward stories and ended up now I'm like so happy to say that it has nothing to do with the revenue. It's about seeing people get promoted and living in their future self and then crafting these like best in class marketing teams that I then see thrive. And then the hundreds of millions of dollars that were converted for the, for the agencies I supported is, is gravy to me. But it's that pay it forward mentality that definitely fueled me.
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A
When you talk about a room without windows, I, I feel you there. I, I don't have any windows here. We're not there yet. We're still startup. So I'm still, I'm still aiming for the, the office. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I get some vitamin D and get some sun, but it's okay because we're in it to win it here. Lindsay, I, I do have a question for you because you mentioned, you know, you've been involved with teams that pitch, you're helping present your offering to these brands. Have you seen that change over the last few years and throughout your career? Like, have there been different requirements that they have in place? Where do you feel that particular part of an agency's role has changed over the last two, three, five years?
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C
It's changed and it hasn't at the same time. So in regard to what I'm seeing changing, I'm seeing a lot of the old ways of fully integrated reviews come to fruition. So where you're seeing, you know, creative and media in one or media and production, so taking us back, you know, 15, 20 years ago, so that, that's, that's a commonality of a full fledged integration. I'm also seeing a trend of reviews no longer taking six to nine months. They're, they're really being compacted into six to eight weeks. Same amount of Work and then I'm seeing, which is really nice thing is I'm seeing, you know how the client always says like put the people that are going to work on the business in the. And they're the agencies in the back of their mind thinking but that's not the people that are going to win the business. Right. And so it's a very hard struggle and sometimes agencies don't have the luxury of having, you know, day to day people lined up ready to just pitch versus work on a current account. But I'm seeing, I'm at least at Kluba says I'm seeing an appetite and open mindedness to that to younger people that may not necessarily be as well polished but have great ideas and a lot of grit and hustle being able to come to the forefront and lead. And so there's, there's been a whole bunch of those different use cases where we look back and we're like, yeah, see you just need to give that person a shot and look how they. Yeah, so that's, that's.
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A
Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I feel like the importance of creativity overall and just being able to come up with an idea on the spot, something that's great, that a client would love on the spot is like really a talent and not everybody has that. Like I think some people are very creative, some are very organized, some are very structured and just having a team with that different outlook is great and I would assume really helps close business. Especially as creative now seems to be surging again like it's all about the creative again overall in advertising. And I love that that you guys are doing that for the younger up and coming team members.
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C
Yeah. And I don't even think it's creative too. I think it's, it's also when it comes to media and data and tech, we're seeing it, it's. It's just nice to see different generations come to come to, to show up and collaborate. And I've also seen that historically people were very focused, particularly when I was in performance media, very focused on certain channel specialties. Right. And that each person had their. So when they would ideate an activation or whatnot, it would be very much in this lane. I'm now seeing people think in systems and think in ecosystems and think more broadly which really moves the needle in terms of how we bring to life something that's, that's not based in channel planning and more about ecosystem or environment planning.
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A
You've worked in the space for quite some time and you and I chatted prior to recording and you talked a little bit about unified measurement and strategy and what that means. Can you kind of explain that in terms of how that's important to build that for clients and maybe what you guys are doing today?
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C
Yeah, well, I mean, think about it. When budgets tighten and your teams become like more fragmented, how are you supposed to make sense of the mess? Right? If everybody has their own KPI and way of measuring success and if you yourself as a marketer and, or your agency are only looking at the performance metrics in a certain, you know, siloed perspective, you're not understanding the big picture. And the big picture is what's going to generate the business growth. And that's what you're all assigned to do. And so it's incredibly important that you have a unified measurement strategy and framework that not just your marketing organization rallies around, but your entire C suite and business organization rallies around. So CMOs, if they're not talking about margin and profitability and revenue, then they're talking about the wrong things. And so that, that to me is now a non negotiable and it's, it's just really interesting to see what's happening, that people are now being able to act more independently and autonomously. We have in particular that actually uses us as their source of truth when it comes to all of their sales and reporting it out to the market. Which if you told me that 15, 10 years ago that they would trust an agency to do that work, I'd be like, wait a second, they're still like an outside partner, how would they even know that? But when you are working that integrated across the technology, this singular unified measurement framework and source of truth, it's actually able to be done and you no longer need to question, you know, what's working, what's not working, what's a vanity metric, all of that, it's all there and the proof is in the pudding. It also gives the CMO more influence accountability across the broader C suite. So them becoming buddy buddy with their COO and CFO is really, really key. But they have to speak the same language, which is why having that fundamental framework and strategy is so important.
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A
And that probably changes a lot in terms of how you even measure success or how you even measure performance. If they were all living in silos, everyone can say, well, this channel doesn't necessarily work because we can't attribute that channel to a particular sale or acquisition or whatever metric you're using. But now you're able to combine all those data points and Say, look, this may not have been a direct sale, but this created awareness which then triggered them to go to search and then search ended up getting them to transact because they found a code because of our affiliate partner. And it's like this whole cycle of what does it mean to like work the client or the consumer down the funnel all starts to make sense now to a cmo and then they can make those changes and adjustments.
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C
Yeah, absolutely. I also kind of think of it as a snowball, right? Like you keep building and building and building until your customer has exactly what they need. But that journey is coming from a myriad of different things. But you need to be able to have consistency across that journey and making sure you're delivering on what their, their intent and need is.
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A
Question for you. And I want to ask you, when it comes to data and privacy, identity, the importance of, you know, being compliant, what's your perspective as an agency and where do you see things heading in the, in the near future?
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C
Well, I mean, there's no option to being compliant. You are. And if you're not, you shouldn't be in the data business.
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A
You're in trouble. Yes.
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C
And it's so interesting because when I first met data and in that capacity overall, both from a product services and strategy standpoint, was when I was at Dentsu and we had recently acquired Merkle and M1. And I just remember having to work with the M1 team and kind of translate what they were saying to somebody that'd be a little bit more layman's or on the street terminology. And it was really hard for people to. They understood the vision of what identity could do, but they really had a hard time with it in terms of understanding the value of it and whether or not they were mature enough to actually action on it and do something with it. So then we went through, everybody has more and more data, but is it the right data and how do you use the data? But I think today what I'm seeing, and I've even seen this with cpgs, which is so exciting because that's usually not somebody who focuses on identity solution is that they see it and it's proof in the pudding. And it goes back to what we were just talking about in measurement brands that treat data like a value exchange and understand that you're giving me something and I in turn want to get something versus it's not something you just take. And with that data they then build trust and add value. Those are the brands that are then going to perform. So the ones right now, especially with AI being such an integral operating lever, you have to have a cohesive, fully fleshed out data solution and identity solution. Even if you are a CPG marketer, right. Even if you are doing something that is small and fast moving goods, it's not just for, you know, auto and a high price tag. I'm seeing this across the board with some of our clients that we've really leaned in particularly to, to our epsilon solution. And there's, there's not a lot of, there's a lot of bespoke data providers out there, but when you can get as much high fidelity data in one place and then have that within your walls, that's, that's really, really powerful if you can, can properly unlock it.
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A
You touched up on trust a little bit. You mentioned, you know, trust and the value exchange. How do you see that playing a role, you know, in 2026 and how you work with clients and how is that a value proposal to the people that you work with or the clients you work with?
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C
So on the data side of it, if they are letting you into their world and for instance, let's just say it's your social and your email, I then expect you to not spam me and to not make me frustrated. And what you are sending me should feel relevant and meaningful to where I am in my day to day and journey, right? And if you, if you betray that and you call me too much and you're like a desperate boyfriend, we're gonna, you know, I'm probably gonna end up like not picking up or deleting you, right? So that's, you have to treat it like dating. So that's, that's the way we look at it. And I need to be able to establish trust and offer value. This is what particularly credit cards do really well, right, of building experiences and added value. When you have a point system that, that's, that's very similar. Trust more holistically though is so interesting. And to me we are as an industry distracted all the time by whatever the new buzzword is, whether it's the metaverse, whether it's data and first party, whether it's right now AI and what it can do for my creative and content supply chain. We just love the headlines. But when you step back, none of that matters in reality. What matters is that you work with and befriend people and have a life that you can, you can work with people that are trustworthy and that, you know, if you're in a clinch, they're going to be able to help you. And to me, that's, that's how I live and, and act as a leader with people that I've worked with previously that have been on my team, that I still check in on to the, the clients that I support today that might not even be a client and a person, a rostered client at Publicis. To me, it's all about the pay it forward and sending forward that momentum and positive intention that will come back ten tenfold for both parties.
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A
That to me, I am living proof of that pay it forward. And it's incredible what happens. It is an unbelievable trust builder. It is a great way to just live your life, not expecting anything in return immediately, but knowing long term that you have this group, this client, this co worker that you can lean on. It is absolutely the best way to live and the best way to conduct business to be.
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C
It is, it is.
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A
I think it's the only way.
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C
And what I often find too is, you know, there is sometimes a connotation that we're publicist group and we have our, you know, everything so well oiled and together, but we're not perfect. We're growing and we're constantly growing and we're constantly learning and we're constantly figuring out what's next. And I think that that hustle and fire that that we have here is, is unique in that nature. But I think it's important for us to also be vulnerable and talk about that. You know, there's things that go wrong. I mean, specifically if you're onboarding client in like 90, 30 days, like, yeah, something's going to happen, that's a crazy time to make that happen, right? So like, we get that and we're also people powered and people come with laws and those flaws can be great and they also can be, you know, unruly and bad sometimes. But if we talk about it and are transparent and I've built that relationship with that client from the get go, we're only going to make it better.
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A
Lindsey, I want to ask you, you've, you've been in the agency world for quite some time. You're obviously successful in your career. I have a lot of females on my podcast, majority female. I think at this point I want to ask you for your career journey. How have you reached this point? What have you done to improve your career path? You know, put your name in a hat when openings come up. What do you do to progress your career forward? And this can apply to women, this can apply to everyone in general. But would love to Hear your insight on what you've done to help you get to where you're at today.
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C
It's such a big question because the only thing that I've done has been keep getting back up and learning from previous leaders decisions or lack thereof. I've grown up in this industry when you know, equality and egos, you know, egos would run rampant and equality is not necessarily even a word we would be using, right? Like I've been called into a boss's office once and was, I was told I was, I was being a bitch because I told the creative director that he had the wrong product for the brief we were, we were briefing. So like, but I was the bitch, right? So like, long story short, I've had so many different situations where I have literally been shoved and thrown flat on my face. And you take a moment and you cry and you get back up and you dust yourself off and you keep going because that's what you do as a resilient, empowered woman. But what I've made is a promise to myself that I will not do that to other younger generations and particularly females. And if anything, I see myself opening the door and saying, hey, do you want to be a part of this meeting just so you can have exposure and visibility to what we're talking about or telling my teams and giving them real context into the decisions and why they're happening. But also I want to lead from a place of example. And so if I'm telling my team to raise up and advocate for themselves and speak up for what they believe in, I better be doing the same thing for me. Now the thing that's interesting though is that you have different phases of your career and by no means is it linear and vertical, right? I mean, sometimes you hit that, but it does not happen that way. It comes with a lot of strife. And you also have real life that gets, you know, is entangled in it too. So, you know, when I was having my second baby, I didn't want to be out hustling and, and having a high intensity, high power, high visible job. But once I got settled in, I was ready to dial the, the dial up the intensity a little bit more. And so I needed to know that for myself. So you have to have a really good understanding and just understanding of who you are and what you need at different places of your life. Some of the things I found incredibly helpful, I jotted down a couple just because this is such an important piece to how and where I am today in my life, but also how and What I want to leave on this earth as, as you know, a female leader. So one is just being able to be curious and adaptable. Like if you don't know the answer, but you know, sure as hell you're going to be able to figure it out, like raise your hand and go for it. Like, what's the worst that can happen? Taking those risks and speaking up is, is really important. And just constantly being curious, understanding the business and what you work for, a lot of people don't even understand it. They, they understand where they sit in the business and they understand what their team does. But how does your business make money? Right? And how are decisions made also? Like who's incentivized by what people are empowered by? Dollars, Right. Or empowered by power. And you really need to understand what those motivating factors are. You don't need to know everything about everything. You can kind of just. What's the word? You can be fluid without being a perfectionist. So I think being okay with good and great is really important. I've seen a lot of senior leaders freeze in fear and couldn't make a decision because they didn't have enough data points or because, you know, they, they felt it in their gut that this was the decision, but they weren't necessarily sure. And so they just didn't make a decision. And that, that's, that itself is inaction is in action and that's very frustrating for teams. And then two other bits which is you cannot underestimate what being a human in today's world will, will mean to others. Having human skills, having communication skills, sending people, you know, a message, a text, teams chat, like, hey, I just saw this and reminded me of you. Just wanted to say hi and hope you're well. Those are really important skills to have and they're going to be even more moving forward. I think humanity studies is something in particular should be, should be, you know, focused on outside of AI because this is what makes us tick. It's all about people. And that's, that's the most important bit to life and while we're on this planet and to, to this job and and to, to careers as a whole. But you can't do any of those things if you are not in a safe space. Who your leader is and what that culture you work with and is, is really, really important. And so I found that moments where I was either not in a great place where I might have a leader that was leading by fear, which is not a great place to motivate me from because if I'm motivated by fear, I'm scared. And I'm not going to be acting and showing up as my best self and willing to take risks and, or voice my opinion. I want to be motivated by growth. And so I just think it's really important that your teams know that you're not their therapist, but you are a trustworthy source and that you legitimately care. And to me, it's all about hacking corporate America. And what I mean by that is architecting your best friends at work, architecting your best friends in your personal life to be the village that you need to support you. So, for example, I came back from mat leave and I was at a different holding company at the time and I had a female CEO that was fairly new and she and I got along really well and we had just finished a big pitch that we had eventually won. And I remember coming to her and I had tears in my eyes and I said, you know, I am not the person I was when I started in this role. And right now I don't, I, I'm burnt out and I feel like a shell of a human being and I don't feel like I'm doing a good job for you, for this team, for the company, and I'm not, I'm not well. And she took that, she gave me the biggest hug. She said, you are well and you're great, but I hear you. And then she worked with senior leadership and I took a six week paid sabbatical and came back recharged and have an immense loyalty and love and admiration for her as a leader who I still talk to and work with to this day. But that could not have been done 15 years ago.
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A
No, it couldn't have. And I think, I think it's just such an under appreciated leadership skill to be able to recognize limits, recognize strengths and weaknesses and being able to say, look, you're great at what you do, but this is not your strength. You know this, I know this. No reason to hide it. Let's get you the help that you need, whether that means a coworker or whether that means training, whether that means education, whatever that means for you. But let's work to build you up rather than leading by fear like you mentioned, where you're like, oh, you suck at this and then, you know, taking it somewhere else. So I, I totally love that leadership style and I have a few of those in my career as well.
- [27:55]
C
Yeah, they hold a special place in your life and, and it actually gave me a place to, to do that for somebody else later on that. That really needed it and they didn't even acknowledge it in the same way I did. So. But for me, that means what you just said. I've. I've worked with a personal coach who had nothing to necessarily do with architecting a promotion, but literally just to keep my head sane, to make sure that the positive thoughts that were coming into my ether were not, you know, having an impact and chipping at me. And instead I was able to let them go and stay focused on. On what I knew my intention and broader aspiration was. So even stuff like that, that's where like, you know, friends can come in handy too, for that matter. And then being proactive, so making sure you're getting in front of the people you want to get in front of and you're building those bridges. So the person I work for now, her name is Amy Armstrong, and she's the Chief Revenue Officer at Publicis Group. Before I joined this team, you know, for sure, I reached out to a whole bunch of people that worked with her previously, and I used those investigative journalism skills to, you know, to suss out what kind of leader she is. And so I knew what I was walking into when I said, amy, you know, I want this role. Here's the job description, here's what I, I know you need and why I'm the one to do it. And she said, okay, this is a great job description, but I think you're a little too ambitious, Lynn. Let's scale it back a little bit. But, hell, yeah, you're going to be on my team and we're going to do great things together. So that was, that was a really, really recording experience.
- [29:30]
A
It's amazing. Like, I, I have, I'd say two. Two people in particular that stand out in my career. One that just kept telling me, just keep going. Don't get frustrated. Keep going. It'll happen. Just keep going. And I'm like, man, I don't know. This is never going to happen. Just keep going. You've got it all under control. Take the day off, enjoy your family. Go take, you know, the kids on a walk. Go take your dog on a walk. Like, you're, you're awesome. And, and works more, I would say, as a leader, but truly a leader, that was motivating but not pressuring. And I think it's the pressuring side and the fear side that some people can thrive. Some people are like, I love it. Like, I love the pressure, constant pressure of emails. That's what gets me going for Myself, maybe you also. I prefer the opposite of, hey, you're doing a fantastic job. But what do we need to do this as well in order for us to hit our targets or our goals? I think that's a much different management style, and I think some people have it and some people simply don't.
- [30:25]
C
Yeah, and success isn't your title. Success isn't how much you get paid. And, you know, I was raised in a household where that kind of was drilled into me. Like, the harder you work and the more hours you work, the more you'll be rewarded and the higher you'll make you get on the ladder and the more money and then, you know, success, it's like, holy crap. I mean, I think it's just us millennials now seeing this, that that's not really tried and true to me, you know, like, being able to be fulfilled at work and then personally and, you know, we call it fire play, where we all hang out in front of the fireplace at night and, like, you know, tickle and dance with my little ones and my husband. Like, that is success. When I feel safe in my house, I know that I have a future with my babies and my career, and I've built a community that I'm proud of and like success.
- [31:19]
A
I agree. Lindsay, thank you. You are an amazing person. I'm so glad you are on this podcast. So thank you for joining me and thank you to Publicis Group for having you. Really loved chatting with you and great to meet you.
- [31:32]
C
Oh, thanks so much. I hope I can meet you one day.
- [31:34]
A
One day Mystery. Take care, Lindsay.
- [31:38]
C
Bye.
- [31:40]
A
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Ad Tech godpod, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates. So follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget ATG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of adtech innovation.