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Ep. 135: Crafting Big Ideas: Gina Michnowicz on Creativity, AI, and Experiential Marketing
00:23:49
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- [00:00]
A
This is adtech God and I command you to listen to this house ad. So if you're listening to this show, just know that you've really stumbled upon a giant network of content across advertising, marketing, media, publishing, and of course the people that work in this great advertising industry. So go to market, check out all of our brands. We have multitude of shows from the Brand Forum, the Advertising Forum, the Monopoly Report, the Ad Tech God Pod, the Market and more. We are bringing more podcasts to our network. We are consistently and constantly bringing on new shows. So check it out. Market or search for any of those brands in the app that you use to listen to this podcast. Enjoy the show and see you all soon. This is at Tech God and this is a commercial message. Meet Free Wheel Buyer Cloud. Not just another dsp, but a fully integrated TV and video buying platform built with intelligence at its core. It's designed to help you plan, activate and optimize smarter so you can build your own innovation on top of it. Learn more and connect with the Freewheel Buyer cloud team@freewheel.com ATG Again, connect with the team@freewheel.Com ATG welcome to the AdTech Godpod, your window into the world of advertising technology and the people behind it. I'm your host, AdTech God. Welcome to the AdTech God Pod where we speak to the creative leaders of our industry. Today's guest is Gina Miknovich, the chief executive officer at the Craftsman. Craftsman is basically a consultancy and award winning creative shop specializing in storytelling and big ideas. Gina is located in San Francisco which is an incredible city. I absolutely love it. I've heard wonderful things from Gina, from people that refer Gina to me. So I'm really looking forward to getting to know her more, getting to understand what Craftsman does in market and of course building a good relationship. So Gina, thank you for joining me and welcome to the pod.
- [02:09]
B
Thank you. I'm happy to be here and appreciate it.
- [02:12]
A
Thank you. I love their pre chat because it always kind of gives me a little bit more of like a personal touch. Like okay, I actually now know Gina because it's been 10 minutes of convo. So so nice to finally meet you Gina. I'd love to hear from you how you created the Craftsman, why you created it and what got you to that point. So maybe like take it back to how you got into the space and what made you found this company.
- [02:35]
B
So I have to kind of take it back when I was in management consulting and I ended up being in like the vice president of digital and that was just because we were doing all of these like side by side tech comparisons and all of these competitive intelligence and, and messaging projects and positioning and working a lot with product management. And I was like, hey guys, you know, I think we're leaving a lot of money on the table. We should create content. We understand the messaging because we just did it. And so we started selling it and very, very focused on digital and social kind of fast forward number of years and I end up having my one and only child. And I came back from maternity leave and the person that was covering me said, you know, you really out on your own. And I was like, well, seems like kind of a crazy time to do that. Like, I'm not sure. I just had a baby. Like, so I started kind of. I went and talked to a couple of people and said, hey, let's be a crazy idea. And both of them said, I will be your first client. And they both actually did become our first clients. So I co founded with the person that was covering, who happened to be a good friend. And that agency was called Union and Webster. So again, fast forward a number of years. I really found that the work that we were doing kind of sounded like a legal firm and was not as creative and not really why I wanted to go out on my own. I really wanted to be focused much more on the creative work product. And so I ended up, I was talking to somebody and I said, you know, I just kind of want to get up and just like focus on the craft of marketing and advertising every day. And instead of so much data and the person, I was like, you know, I just want to be a Craftsman. And the person said, you know, you should go see if that's available. And the Craftsman, Craftsman by itself isn't because it's a tool. And then the Craftsman was taken. Somebody has been squatting on that for a while. And so the Craftsman Agency, that's the really long URL that we have now, is, is where we kind of landed. But the Craftsman is, you know, kind of born fire.
- [04:57]
A
Yeah, it's amazing because most of the people I talk to are, you know, advertising technology, you having kind of like a digital background. And now with founding the Craftsman, how are you working with these brands? Because looking at your website, it's 20th Century Fox, Cisco, Disney, Godiva, Marvel Studios, Mercury. Like you work with some major, major brands in market. What do you do for them, how do you work with them and I guess what kind of services do you provide?
- [05:23]
B
So I'd say that, you know, for the most Part we consider ourselves industry agnostic and that's because we're, you know, always trying to figure out how we're going to connect the human to the brand and also how are we going to tell that brand story in a way that is just really kind of breaks through the. No, I hate that term, everybody uses it. But so we really kind of put ourselves into three categories. One of them is brand strategy that can, that can fill a lot of different gaps and you know, messaging, positioning, sometimes white space, opportunity strategies, sometimes fill in the gap, marketing strategies. So really just all kinds of strategy. But then also integrated campaigns which covers a lot of the work that we do. So when we're doing like a 10 foot chocolate training for Godiva and 20th Century Fox for Murder on the Orient Express, that is actually, you know, something that you just don't want to build it and then just consider it done. You really want to think about what are those, those integrated touch points that are going to make this much more effective as an activation. You're making the investment. So how do we, how do we get the most life out of it? So integrated campaigns are really kind of a sweet spot for us. And then experiences and we put that into experiential, digital experiences, games, all those types of things. So all those clients that you see on our website, some of the work doesn't show up on the website. You know, it pays the bills but it, it doesn't, doesn't show up on the website in all fairness. But what we generally are doing is trying to figure out we do a lot of brand to demand for Cisco and we run a lot of social campaigns and we're like the AOR for Mercury. So we really are just doing it based on what the, the client's needs are. And I will say it evolves over time. We tend to expand our share of wallet if that makes any sense. Because we are multifaceted and we, we do really stick with the clients that we, that we have.
- [07:31]
A
This is adtech Odd. And I command you to listen to this house ad. So if you're listening to this show, just know that you've really stumbled upon a giant network of content across advertising, marketing, media, publishing and of course the people that work in this great advertising industry. So go to market, check out all of our brands. We have multitude of shows from the Brand Forum, the Advertising Forum, the Monopoly Report, the Ad Tech God Pod, the Market Texture Pod and more. We are bringing more podcasts to our network. We are consistently and constantly bringing on new shows. So check it out market or search for any of those brands in the app that you use to listen to this podcast, enjoy the show and see you all soon. I think that's a sign of good work. So there's them sticking with you and you sticking with them, working with those brands and doing both Experiential digital. How do you wrap it all together? I guess when you're talking to a company in particular and they say, we want to set up a train, what are you doing on the digital front? Is this like interactive web gamification? Is this just strong branding to attract people to, you know, a physical location? But how are you wrapping it all together to create this environment and experience? Right.
- [08:50]
B
The Chocolate Train is a good. So everybody always comes to us and says, here's our objective and, you know, come up with some ideas. So we're all about the big idea. I think you said that initially. It's. And sometimes, you know, sometimes the idea is, you know, certainly not linear in terms of how we come up with it. So the Chocolate Train was, you know, something that we're like, how can we hit all of the objectives that Fox has regarding the film? And how can we hit all of the. All of the objectives for Godiva where they are really focused on getting to the flagship store, social currency, pr, all of those kinds of things as a promotional partner. And so we came up with this idea and it was 3,000 Godiva chocolate bars, which is probably criminal in its own right, but absolutely stunning. Beautiful. Worked with an artist over in the UK because the world premiere was there. So it started at the world premiere. Fox really wanted to have something special for the talent because that was a star studded cast. And so it went into Royal Albert hall for its first stop. It ended up moving on to St Pancras station and that's where it was directing traffic to the flagship store that moved on the same night that there we had signage that, you know, pointed people to the flagship store as well as had a hashtag from People Share. That's also where we brought press and did a PR meeting associated with the train and how it was made, and that was with the artist and Godiva and also did behind the scenes content so that both Fox as well as Godiva could share the behind the scenes content and then had just some social content that just showed the train and its, you know, beauty.
- [10:45]
A
That sounds like a lot, Gina.
- [10:47]
B
Well, it's. It would have been a lot.
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A
That's a huge. Yeah, I mean, that's like, that's so much work. You Know, we, we throw our own events and even just having a, a 300 person event feels like a lot. But the coordination between PR and social promotions, it's a ton of work. So I love, I love your story and I love that you explained that to us as like the, you know, you come from kind of like a digital background moving into like this very creative work. How do you feel the digital aspect helped you build what you're building today? Do you feel like a good understanding of the digital aspect of the industry helps you better execute? And I guess what are some of the learnings that you have that you're applying now to a more creative, experiential type of marketing and agency?
- [11:34]
B
I will say I did actually work brand side and did events and strategic alliances and marketing communications. So I do have the benefit for that experience as well. And I think that when you saw digital and social come online in the way that it did is, you know, you had to say, okay, this is another tool that I'm going to put in my toolbox. There's a lot of people that said, oh, social media is going to make it so that you don't need events anymore. And I was like, well, I think it's going to be a layer and it's going to complement everything that you're doing, but it's not going to take away human contact. I mean, it's. We found that out in Covid and all of these other times. Right. So part of our industry though is learning and changing and evolving. I mean, we certainly have a lot of that going on right now. And so I think that it's always being curious and really always figuring out how is it going to be sort of the best mix for our clients?
- [12:30]
A
Speaking of the evolving and changing, unfortunately, AI always comes up. It's just, I know it's just the topic that always comes up. How are you seeing that playing a role in maybe how you look into things? Your maybe your creative process, does it help you? Does it not help you? Do you try to stay away? And how are your clients looking at AI and their utilization of it or their types of executions that they're doing?
- [12:55]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. I think people's opinion is starting to really evolve and change. We've always had a pretty hefty technology stack. So I believe in technology. I spent a lot of time in high tech and so, you know, how can you leverage those solutions to do the things that maybe you don't want to do, like automation, which is a form of AI that's why I'm always saying, you know, we've had AI for a long time. We haven't had is at our fingertips much like the Internet was. And so, you know, last year I, well, I spent two years ago lamenting and being depressed that the, where it looked like the, you know, the industry was going because I felt like, my God, we, we're, you know, as humans, we come up with these ideas that are great ideas. And there's like so many creatives that I respect and follow. And so I, I really lamented, like it was one of those. And then, you know, I was like, you know what? Evolve or die. So I'm going to embrace this. And I kind of went in and I, I started to play with AI started to play with VO3 and LTX Studios. And you know, this is. I was working on a project for one of our clients around video. So I was like, okay, I just want to see, like, everybody's like, you can do a Super bowl ad and it looks so great and you don't need to do a shoot. And I was like, I really want to see. Can I do that? You have to have some expertise and you have to understand. So I've always done like video scripts and storyboards and worked with the video editors and the producers to, to come up with, you know, be it a shoot or stock or animation or whatever it was going to be and have a lot of feelings about, you know, AI Certainly I think some of it's getting better in terms of persistent. But, you know, I mean, I still, you still find where you're like, why is he clean shaven in, you know, second one and by second seven, he has a full beard. Like, you know why? And why does he all of a sudden have a third hand touching his screen? I didn't say grow a hand in the prompt. You know, I'm like, it still does that. And it's, you know, it still is going to. I do not use it to come up with an idea because I feel like things like minute to fix it, which was basically taking a solution for VMware and making it into a game, which was actually because I was watching a show that was minute to win it and I was like, wait a minute, is there something there? Is there some play? Can we do a game? We know this is gaming audience, so let's do a game to explain what this product does. It finds it and fixes it in a minute. And so that is such a simple story. AI could not have come up with that. And if AI can get to the place that it comes up with that. I'm scared. I'm scared for my daughter.
- [15:53]
A
It's funny because you mentioned so much like the. The inaccuracy, like, everybody's created images, and there's always inaccuracies. Number one is it never really looks like the person you want it to look like. Even when you upload your own image, you look and you're like, this is not me. The weird, like, slop that kind of comes out from it is quite frustrating. I think it was. It was Coca Cola who did their. Their full AI ad with the semi trucks. And somebody broke it all down. And they looked, and this is Coca Cola, like, major brand people know their stuff. Massive creative. And they highlighted that the semi truck throughout the entire ad changed the number of wheels. Sometimes it was an 18 wheeler, sometimes it looked like it was a 12 wheeler, sometimes it looked like it was a 26 wheeler. And I get it was. It was an experiment for them, and people appreciate that. But those are weird kind of misses that should have been picked up and shouldn't be happening. So I agree. I don't think we're there on the generative AI side, and I definitely don't think it's there on the, you know, let's spark an idea side. It feels very rigid and a little too organized for what is usually a creative process that you go through to come up with something great and different
- [17:04]
B
and unique, which is nonlinear and, you know, as you were referring to, it's very, you know, it's linear, it's structured, it's pulling from everything else, you know, that has been done in the world. So it's, you know, I think sometimes I will use it and I'll be like, okay, is this a bad idea? And, you know, it. It gives you, you know, it does give you some perspective. Like. Well, I'll say, here's the audience, here's the objective, you know, and I'll. I'll put. Put it in and. And say, analyze it for me and give me feedback. Where could it be improved? That sometimes is interesting. Also. I'm just trying to, you know, kind of use it as another layer. But in terms of, like, going back to Coca Cola, one of the things that I've. That I say is you've got to start with a craftsman and end with a craftsman. If you're working with us and you're our client, you've got to know that you've got the ideas being formulated by the. By the craftsman, you know, an individual and the final work product is going to be reviewed. I will also say AI outputs a file that cannot be manipulated. Well, so you can use it, you can pull it in to, and you know, do video editing, do your, and your title, your end cards, your vo, all of that. You can add it, but if you want to manipulate that clip, you cannot. And that is where AI is going to have to get to is they're going to have to have it come out in MP4 or a PSD, whatever that, you know, whatever that is.
- [18:35]
A
And you know, like one, one thing that I, I believe in being somewhat creative creating this account, I've made many very cheesy videos. And one thing that I've realized is that AI does not capture emotion at all. So when you're working on the emotion of joy or sadness or loneliness or community, it's very, very, very hard to pass that along with anything. AI yeah, it feels fake. And what fixes that is the creative process of how does this make me feel? But you know, AI doesn't feel anything. And so you say make it sad to like put a teardrop when it's like, no, but the emotion isn't there. And so like the real human aspect of the ad or the video is needed because just AI doesn't hit that emotion piece. It feels fake.
- [19:29]
B
Yeah.
- [19:29]
A
Which then doesn't resonate and people don't like it.
- [19:32]
B
No. And so I don't know if you, I don't know if you've seen like the videos on Instagram where it is like probably a three year old having a conversation with an adult mom sounds the same in every single one. And it's like, you know, because it is, it's AI, it's not. And the child is not really talking like how a child talks. I just saw one talking to their grandma and it just made me kind of like cringe. But then I saw one today that was clearly really a real child. Like, and so excited to see their grandma and like grandma embracing. It was just, it was evoking emotion. Like you're talking about which the other one, you know, the AI produced one is not doing that. It's not giving you that, oh my gosh, that's so adorable that this three year old is calling their grandma.
- [20:26]
A
It's a miss. It misses on that and it misses 100% of the time. And it's, I feel like on the creative side, like the actual video side, it misses it. And it also misses it on the text. So you see the ChatGPT posts where it's like, I think I posted something the other day that was very sarcastic. It said tomorrow is the official cutoff date for you to quote, unquote, reflect on your time at possible. Because I saw so many posts that were like, as I reflect back on this event and I'm like, oh boy, nobody talks like that. So just type the way you speak. It becomes way more authentic than the standardized copy paste from something like a chatgpt. Anyway, we could probably talk about creative all day.
- [21:10]
B
I know when I also like cloud better than chat. We just got rid of Chad, actually.
- [21:15]
A
I do too.
- [21:15]
B
I like.
- [21:16]
A
I do too. So, Gina, from your, your perspective, where do you think we're heading? I like to focus on positive aspect of, you know, creative agencies, ad tech. Where do you think we're going to be 12 to 18 months from now on the creative front? And what are you really looking forward to and excited about?
- [21:33]
B
I think that people are going to figure out that, you know, AI is not going to do everything. I mean, I think we already are starting to see that and also we're starting to see people be like, you know, I want my brain to still work and I want that creative muscle to be working. I mean, if you don't, you don't use your muscles in all forms, your brain or, you know, for your body, they. They atrophy. Right. So I think that people are going to be more disciplined and I think we are going to do better work because we're going to be focused on the. The idea has to be better. Just so you almost know, it's not AI if it makes sense. I do think that we are going to have a lot of productivity that's going to come out of it if you use the technology. Right. And that is something that we are definitely focused on is like where I don't need a human to click and they can focus more on strategy and more on the creative work product. Great. I would much rather have that happen. I think events and activations and brand are going to be more and more important in this time and that excites me because I do appreciate the demand side of the funnel and we do that very well. But I really love also the awareness in the top of the funnel and I think creators, I think there's going to be some shifts on creators. I think creators are important, but I think that they're going to need to actually create real things and those are the only creators that we work with anyway. I think we're going to see a lot more branded content that is going to feel a lot more cinema.
- [23:09]
A
I love it. Awesome. Gina, thank you. You've been an absolute joy to talk with. Thank you so much for joining me. Good luck to you. Good luck to the craftsman and your team. And congrats on such amazing work.
- [23:20]
B
Thank you. Appreciate it.
- [23:22]
A
Thank you. Jenna, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the AdTech Godpod, a podcast for the people about the people. Stay connected with me for more insights, trends and interviews in the realm of ad tech. Don't miss out on the latest updates, so follow me on X Instagram and connect with me on LinkedIn. Don't forget ATG Slack community has insights, networking opportunities and jobs. Keep the conversation going and stay at the forefront of adtech innovation.