Adult Child Podcast: "When Breaking Your Silence Means Losing Your Family: Narcissistic Abuse, Gaslighting & Fawning"

Host: Andrea
Guest: Dr. Ingrid Clayton
Release Date: September 3, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Andrea sits down with Dr. Ingrid Clayton—clinical psychologist, trauma therapist, and author—to explore the devastating impact of growing up in a dysfunctional family affected by addiction, narcissistic abuse, and generational trauma. Together, they unpack the process of healing from complex PTSD (CPTSD), breaking cycles of fawning and codependency, and the excruciating costs sometimes associated with speaking your truth. The conversation is raw, deeply personal, and illuminated by moments of both heartbreak and hope.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Realizing the Depth of Childhood Trauma

• Andrea describes her delayed realization that her childhood experiences constituted genuine trauma, triggered by romantic failures in sobriety, ultimately leading her to the book Adult Child (04:40).
  • "My bottom was I dated two alcoholics named Brian back to back in sobriety... my reaction was as if my husband of 30 years had just tragically died in a plane crash." —Andrea (05:09)
• Dr. Clayton shares how, despite always knowing something was off, she only truly recognized the extent of her trauma after years of running (geographically and academically), resulting in "an awakening, a reawakening" as symptoms kept surfacing in new forms (flight, perfectionism, addiction) (07:00).
  • "If we don't own our stories as traumatic, we cannot avail ourselves of the tools of trauma healing." —Dr. Clayton (10:29)

The Impact of Narcissistic Abuse and Gaslighting

• Dr. Clayton details her experience with a narcissistic stepfather who subjected her to covert grooming and gaslighting, but for years her family invalidated her perceptions (30:20).
  • "When your body is going, this is wrong, this is wrong and everyone around you is saying, it's perfectly fine. You're the problem... we will always make ourselves at fault, because we need our caregivers to survive." —Dr. Clayton (32:56)

The Complex Relationship with 12-Step Recovery

• Both discuss how traditional 12-step recovery often misses the core issue of trauma, particularly with women or those with complex trauma backgrounds:
  • "I did not need a moral inventory. I needed healing." —Dr. Clayton (17:22)
  • "If you are living in a chronic fawn response, those [12-step] suggestions are all counterindicated. Those are all things that kept me stuck in a chronic, fawning, codependent response." —Dr. Clayton (20:02)
• Andrea and Dr. Clayton both express gratitude for 12-step foundations but call for trauma-focused nuance (21:09).

Healing and Estrangement

• Dr. Clayton describes her "final epiphany" happening after her stepfather died, when she finally felt safe to process her trauma. The aftermath: she became estranged from her mother, who was unable to validate her experience (35:01).
  • "To the extent that you still see me as a liar who made it all up is the extent that I am in harm's way by keeping you in my life, even if you're my mom... My compassion and my empathy outweighed my need to protect myself my whole life." —Dr. Clayton (36:14)
  • "The healing is in our hands. We don't have to wait for anyone to say, yes, I fucked up." —Dr. Clayton (39:45)

The Fawn Response and Chronic People-Pleasing

• Dr. Clayton breaks down the concept of fawning (from Pete Walker's work) as a trauma-rooted safety mechanism—going beyond the language of codependency.
  • "Red flags don't look like red flags when they feel like home." —Dr. Clayton (10:52, echoed at 56:30)
  • "My body was so brilliant that even as a young child it figured out how to receive even a modicum of safety and connection. And then, that's my blueprint." —Dr. Clayton (57:00)
• She describes privileging her mother’s wounding above her own needs, a habit she’s still working through with boundaries and self-compassion (55:07–57:00).

Approaching Trauma Healing: Modalities and Tools

• Discussion of somatic healing tools: Somatic Experiencing, EMDR, Internal Family Systems (IFS), and even cautious consideration of psychedelic therapies (49:03–51:04).
  • "Sometimes it's on a pottery wheel, sometimes it's in their hiking boots... to really be curious about those things that we feel called to, that can bring us into our bodies." —Dr. Clayton (47:00)
• Strong advocacy for trauma-trained (not just trauma-informed) therapists; the importance of attuning to one’s body, not treating healing as a race, and using accessible, present-day grounding tools (51:17–54:21).

Normalizing Emotional Flashbacks and Lingering Effects

• Both speak candidly about emotional flashbacks, dissociation, and feelings of being “about to get in trouble,” even as adults:
  • "It just feels so real and there is no time." —Dr. Clayton (61:44)
  • "You know, it's okay, yeah, I'm going to die because this person didn't text me back after 30 minutes. But I'm like, pretty fucking sure I'm going to die." —Andrea (62:44)
• Dr. Clayton notes that witnessing and naming these feelings is powerful and reduces shame.

Conclusion & Resources

• Dr. Clayton shares she's creating fun, accessible trauma education—like her YouTube variety show "Standup Therapy"—to make these concepts less lonely and more approachable (63:46).
  • "I want to make these concepts really accessible, funny, and fun so we don't feel so alone. Laughing at things that have honestly brought me so much pain." —Dr. Clayton (64:15)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Flags don't look like red flags when they feel like home." —Andrea (00:30), Dr. Clayton (56:30)
• "If we don't own our stories as traumatic, we cannot avail ourselves of the tools of trauma healing." —Dr. Clayton (10:29)
• "To the extent that you still see me as a liar who made it all up is the extent that I am in harm's way by keeping you in my life, even if you're my mom." —Dr. Clayton (36:14)
• "My compassion and my empathy outweighed my need to protect myself my whole life." —Dr. Clayton (36:40)
• "Red flags don't look like red flags when they feel like home." —Dr. Clayton (56:30)
• "My body was so brilliant that even as a young child it figured out how to receive even a modicum of safety and connection. And then, that's my blueprint." —Dr. Clayton (57:00)
• "You know, it's okay, yeah, I'm going to die because this person didn't text me back after 30 minutes. But I'm like, pretty fucking sure I'm going to die." —Andrea (62:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:30: Andrea’s intro, “flags don’t look like red flags when they feel like home”
• 04:40: Andrea’s "aha moment" around childhood trauma
• 07:00: Dr. Clayton's journey of trauma recognition and minimizing her story
• 10:29: Owning the story as traumatic for true healing (Dr. Clayton)
• 13:44: Andrea on being the family scapegoat and "news reporter" analogy
• 17:22: The limits of moral inventory and the need for trauma healing (Dr. Clayton)
• 30:20: Dr. Clayton’s stepfather, covert abuse, and trauma bonding
• 35:01: Dr. Clayton discusses estrangement from her mother
• 39:45: The reality of healing without family validation (Dr. Clayton)
• 47:00: The role of body-based activities in trauma healing (Dr. Clayton)
• 51:17: How to find trauma-trained support and navigate modalities
• 55:33: Fawning in practice—privileging others’ needs; betraying oneself
• 61:44: The reality of emotional flashbacks
• 63:46: Dr. Clayton’s new accessible offerings (YouTube variety show)

Podcast Tone & Style

The episode is conversational, unfiltered, and darkly humorous ("Shit show nation"), balancing deep vulnerability with empathy and moments of levity. Both Andrea and Dr. Clayton model self-compassion, validating the ongoing, nonlinear nature of healing while challenging cultural and recovery community taboos about trauma and accountability.

Resources & Where to Find More

• Dr. Ingrid Clayton's memoir: Believing Me
• Upcoming book: Fawning (details in episode)
• YouTube: Standup Therapy
• Instagram/TikTok: @adultchildpod / links in show notes
• Trauma Toolbox: Resources linked in Dr. Clayton’s social media profiles

For anyone who’s questioned whether their childhood “was really that bad,” struggled with familial estrangement, or felt trapped in cycles of people-pleasing: this episode offers profound insight, company, and hope for the journey of healing.