A (2:09)

Okay. Cheese.

B (2:10)

I've more recently got into triple cream, but I would say my everyday go to is like a cheddar or a gouda.

A (2:19)

Good choice. And then condiment.

B (2:23)

My favorite condiment is chick fil a sauce. It is so good. And I. I do have fries often. I like to blame it on having two little kids, but I just love French fries, so it's something that I eat often.

A (2:37)

Do you have an air fryer?

B (2:38)

We Do.

A (2:39)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like. You probably aren't a fan, but I like the Arby's. I like Arby's curly fries. So I'll get those frozen and put them in the air fryer. And they're.

B (2:49)

So I'm not a curly fry person because they are usually, like, a softer fry, but I feel like if they're cooked, at least to a more crisp point, I can get behind.

A (2:58)

You're a firm fry gal.

B (2:59)

Yes.

A (3:00)

Okay. So how did you realize that you were an adult child?

B (3:04)

That's a good question. I feel confident in saying that. I always knew my family was not normal. I also grew up in my house with my grandparents and my aunt and my uncle and my cousin, so that part was really obvious. But the way that we all functioned, it became really clear to me very young that we weren't normal. So I didn't often have friends over. I was selective about who came over. I think it was probably around the time where I was engaged and we were going to someone else's engagement party and having a conversation in the car with some friends who are really good friends now, but, you know, we were just like newer friends at the time, and they were talking about how middle school is just, like, a tough time. And, like, in my brain, I just immediately went to this really deep, dark, depressed memories. And when I described, like, my middle school experience, everybody was just kind of like. And I feel like that's where I kind of realized, yeah, this. This shit, like, goes deep. So I don't know if that was necessarily adult child, but, like, definitely recognizing just how different I was from others or at least would share with oblivion, like, you know, with the naivety of just not or not the awareness of not knowing. And then the adult child really came. When I had heard your podcast, and I was like, oh, my God, I've never heard myself described so well. So, yeah, it's been. It's been maybe two years. Ish. Of knowing.

A (4:35)

And so then you. You had a. A depressive episode come up, right? Was it after Covid? Before COVID or. When would you say that you. When these stuff really started to, like, rear its ugly head?

B (4:48)

Yeah, it was. My daughter was born in. In September of 2019, and I had postpartum depression and anxiety pretty intensely. I ended up starting to see. I hadn't seen a therapist since college, so I. I sought out. I spoke with my midwife. She recommended somebody who specialized in postpartum therapy. And that was kind of. You know, there was just kind of this disconnect. Of having almost these, like, emotional flashbacks of, you know, being a kid and, like, being, you know, not very well tended to, and also feeling that, like, instinctual pull of, this is my child. They are crying. I need to tend to them in this way. And then also, you know, my kind of. My husband's response was just like, why are. You know, why, like, questioning the instinctual pull? But then, like, I would get really triggered by some things that he would do or say, and I would lash out. And that was kind of like the start of me really recognizing, like, things are really not okay. Like, I really need help. So that was probably. I think I. I mean, I know that I've dealt with depression a lot in my life, so. But only since then has it really been, at least to my knowledge, diagnosed. But what really my bottom was kind of in returning to work after my second child was born in 2022. And, you know, now looking back on it, I realized, like, my work situation was very much an adult child, you know, not in just, like, rampant mistreatment of people. And I became a victim of that at that, you know, upon going back to work. And I would say that was probably. Probably my. I think probably my lowest of just kind of being. I was stuck. I was, like, so stuck in a functional freeze and, like, having experiencing trauma responses for like, a year and a half before I was able to pull myself out of the situation.

A (6:53)

Did you know that you had CPTSD at that point?

B (6:56)

I think it was sometime within the year after returning back to work after that second pregnancy that my therapist had shared with me that she suspects that I have cptsd. But I remember to, like, just being so stuck and trying to describe that to her, and she just kept going back to. Well, I just. I'm looking for a reason not to work or I'm choosing not to get things done.

A (7:26)

But really, your therapist was saying that to you?

B (7:28)

Yeah. And so she was, like, recommending these productivity techniques, and maybe you can check out this. And that was kind of around the time where we're like, okay, you know, I've kind of always suspected adhd. She started treating me for ADHD with medication, and it was helpful, but I was. I was very much in a downward spiral at that point. And while that was helpful in helping me power through every day, I was very dissociated. Like, I really like being on the medication. I was just kind of on this very fast train to, like, serving all everyone else's needs and not able to look inward at what was truly going on. And so, yeah, so that therapy relationship, while it was really helpful for postpartum, it became really toxic once my needs switched over to I needed trauma therapy. I remember asking her because I had heard about IFS on your podcast. I remember saying, I've been thinking about IFS therapy and I don't know if it's something that I would do in addition to seeing you for therapy or if it's. I would just transition. And she was like, oh, interesting. And I remember, I don't remember exactly what she said, but the vibe I got was like, well, you could try it, but it's probably going to be about the same as CBT therapy. And now that I've done IFS therapy for six months, I know that's just really not true. I've made, I've made significant progress in the last six months, whereas I just was. I feel like very much pinned down in that CBT therapy relationship.

A (9:03)

So. Okay, so I mean, she's giving you these like productivity tips when. But then eventually she did say to you, I suspect that this might be cptsd.

B (9:12)

Yeah. So she had said that she suspected it. I'm not sure that.

A (9:16)

I feel like she clearly doesn't understand it.

B (9:18)

Gap in between, like, you can know about trauma and like how serious it can be. But I don't trauma informed. See, it's like one of those like labels on food where it's like, it doesn't truly mean anything, you know? And she said that she was experienced with trauma, but. And looking back at it, I'm just like, I disagree. There were so many really.

A (9:43)

It's like gaslighting.

B (9:44)

Yeah. This really destructive path that it took me on. And so it wasn't until I was able to pull myself out of things enough to be like, I need to get myself out of this therapy relationship. This is what's. This is a big hindrance right now. And that felt really scary because I, I was really depressed for so, like very depressed for so long at that point. But I'm really glad I transitioned out of that.

A (10:12)

Well, eventually I want to circle back to what your experience has been like in ifs, but let's go back to your childhood now.

B (10:18)

Okay.

A (10:19)

Paint the picture.

B (10:20)

Where do I even start? Yeah, so I lived, with the exception of a nine month period, my mom and I always lived with our grand. My grandparents. I don't even know where to start. Sorry. There was just a lot of. There was always a lot of chaos. I mean, you know, you've kind of got my aunt and my Cousin who are their own little family, me and my mom who are our own family. Then my grandparents and my uncle. My uncle, I'm sure now he's autistic and he has, he needs a lot of support. So he's just kind of always, you know, he's an adult, but he's kind of at the mentality of a 10 or 13 year old. So while there are a lot of adults there, it was like we were kind of siloed in a way, but also not. And I feel like that doesn't make any sense. That's the best way I can describe it of. Everybody kind of knows people's business but, but nobody chimes in to say like, hey, you shouldn't be talking to Ashley or you know, my cousin like that or you know, like my aunt would get. A lot of times my cousin was like really a brat as a kid.

A (11:28)

Were you guys similar ages?

B (11:30)

She's three years younger than I am, but she was kind of like you know, this little, little angel who could, you know, at least as far as her mom was concerned, never did anything wrong. But like as soon as her mom wasn't looking, she'd be like biting me and scratching me or she'd, you know. At one point she started swearing at me. And her mom had heard but her mom assumed that it was me. And so she literally picks me up and walks me to my bedroom and flings me and I mean our, our house, the room isn't huge, but it's like a ten foot throw. She flings me from the door to the bed to be like, and said something to the effect of just that kind of behavior is not okay. Don't saying that stuff around my daughter. And I'm just like, well one, you guys swear all the time and two.

A (12:20)

It wasn't even me.

B (12:21)

But I'm just like sitting there like terrified of being like handled that way and just I, I don't even know. I feel like I kind of like have blacked out a bit after. You know, I like have this vision of her throwing, throwing me in like from an out of body perspective. And then seeing her at the door, she's saying stuff and then she close like slams it shut. And so there was just like a lot of harsh treatment like that, A lot of harsh words. I was like kind of seen as this like goody two shoes in my family who just like never did anything, also never did anything wrong and just like had to have things a certain way. But really I just was like trying to find calm in the chaos, you know, like, I feel like that's where my like, passion for organizing and just like making calm out of a chaotic space, like, really grew because I, you know, at some point I was sharing a room with my mom. At other points I was sharing a room with my cousin. It was just. There was kind of like just this weird constant fluctuation. And also everyone kind of spent time in their own rooms. So I guess that's kind of where like the silo thing comes back into play. Of my grandparents, both of them had a temper and most dinners would end in both of them yelling at each other and my grandma storming off and then eating cookies and chips for dinner. And so, yeah, it was just, it was a lot. There was a lot going on and everyone was trying to survive. And even in talking with my aunt, who I was very scared of my aunt for a very long time, like sometime after that, her throwing me incident, I remember going down into her room in the basement and checking her work schedule to see, okay, when would I want to play at home after school and when would I want to go to a friend's. So there was just always this really anxious. I don't know, it was a very, like, anxiety producing experience for me.

A (14:32)

Was your dad ever in the picture?

B (14:34)

No. I would ask my mom about my dad and kind of would get a variety of answers. Either she didn't know who my dad was, or she gave him. She had told him that she was pregnant and he opted, you know, out of being a part of our lives. And even to this day, there's still inconsistencies there. So he's never been apart.

A (14:55)

Do you know who he is?

B (14:56)

No. Before I was pregnant, I kind of had the itch to find out and I did 23andMe and Ancestry. But it wasn't until a couple months ago where I had more than the fourth cousin on his side show up. So I have a first cousin once removed. And I tried just kind of looking up to see, I don't know, to see if I could like, find anything from that relative to make a connection. But I'm guessing that it's probably somebody who married into my dad's family. So that would also be tricky. So that's kind of a big unknown.

A (15:30)

Was that something that weighed on you as a kid? Was that something that you thought about often or felt ashamed about?

B (15:38)

I definitely felt a lot of shame around it. You know, for father daughter dances. Obviously I didn't have a father to go with, so my papa would usually go with me once, my uncle went. But I think it was because my papa was sick. And, you know, like, all the little other little kids, little girls are looking at me like, that's your dad. He's so old. And as. As a kid in elementary school, I didn't have the words, so I was just like, oh, no, this is my grandpa. So that definitely always felt strange. And then my mom, she dated a lot. And so if I was maybe like, at an event, like a birthday party or something, and she dropped me off or picked me up, if unfortunately there was, like, one of her boyfriends with her, kids would ask me, is that your dad? Is that your dad? And I didn't have a lot of respect for these men. Like, there was just, like, something skeezy about them. So it was like, really embarrassing to just be related to them in any vague capacity. I remember, like, being like, oh, no, that's not my dad. That's my mom's boyfriend. And she got married in the early 2000s. But even so, it's. That's my mom's husband. There's not anything there for me. Even though they want. They still want me to call him dad. And I'm like, guys, no. So my mom was very checked out in a lot of ways all throughout my childhood. And when she had a boyfriend, she was not around often. You know, she'd come home to get a change of clothes or repack her bag, but she'd be gone for a couple days at a time, at least. And something that really always stuck with me was the confusion of my grandparents kind of using me as bait in a way to get her to come home. You know, oh, you have a daughter here who, like, needs things, and we're not her parents. So kind of from that stemmed this, like, perpetual belief of that I'm a burden. You know, like, my mom isn't willing to spend time with me or, like, show up as a parent. And my grandparents seem impositioned by it. You know, I. I ended up doing a lot of stuff with my aunt because she was a more present parent for my cousin. But that was a really tricky relationship because I was also scared of her. So really, it was just a. It's just this big mess of feeling crippling anxiety and fear and also having some of those scariest people be the closest I could get to a safe space for so long. So if it wasn't for my aunt, I wouldn't have had a lot of childhood experiences.

A (18:18)

So how did things play out for you in school and Socially, school was.

B (18:23)

Always really tough because I'm pretty sure I have a learning disability or disabilities. I always put a lot of effort into the homework that I did or the projects I did, but I never really did great on them. My family was reluctant or unwilling to help me do homework, so things like math I still really struggle with, but they just, they just weren't available in any capacity to help. And so school was a big struggle. I was very frequently told, you know, she's really smart, but she doesn't apply herself. And it's like really defeating comment when you're applying yourself like as much as you possibly can, but you just don't have the right tools. So that was really discouraging. And fortunately enough I did well enough in some subjects that it, it made up. So I was just a C student for my entire education. And a lot of times it's, especially in college, it was just like teachers, I feel like having mercy on me and giving me at least a passing C. I was also the target of a lot of bullying. There's just so many weird things about my family that I was an easy target. You know, people wondering why like most of the kids who walked to school had parents that would walk and pick them up and we didn't. And you know, it was the 90s, so things were really different than they are now. But also I had a 3/4 of a mile walk to my house, which is kind of far for you know, like a seven year old. But there were just like different family members would drop me off. And so that inconsistency kind of seemed to like spark the interest of people. But it wasn't really until 6th grade where the bullying really picked up. And then throughout middle school it was really bad to the point where like every morning before school I would get sick because you know, whenever I've been made fun of for whenever, like just being like having clothes that didn't fit well or having hairier arms, like I have dark hair and light skin and I don't think anything of it now, but for a long time like this kid who was friends with some of my friends would always comment on it. Can we just stop? But just a lot of those nitpicking comments or you know, like, oh, it's too bad that you're so poor that you can't have pants that fit you. Which was tough also because I'm not tall, but I'm taller than I feel like a lot of girls. You know, I'm thankful that tall pants, like tall hemlines exist now because, you know, it was embarrassing back at in that time to have what we called high waters at least. Like my pants were always a little bit too short and like uncool almost shit.

A (21:08)

I mean I was 511 at 12, so.

B (21:12)

Yeah. Yeah. So there was just like a lot of things. And I feel like once, I don't know, it's like. Because other. It was almost just like unavoidable. It felt like for me not to be picked on. And even I remember in high school or ninth grade, you know, what was the. There was a store called Fashion Bug. And I remember like being so excited because I got to pick out a new shirt for picture day. And I picked out this three quarter sleeve like shirt with a collar and it had this like red whatever geometric Y pattern on it. And honestly the shirt was not totally. The print wasn't my style, but the colors were just spot on. I looked so good in that, in that picture. But I. In the hallway, I remember just getting just from all people I didn't even know. Just you. What an ugly shirt. It just seems like it. It's not much, but it just was incessant. Like I remember this one kid jumping in front of me one day to be like, wow, you're ugly. And like walking away and laughing. And I'm just like, these things must be true. Because it just seems like universe that like, how am I always having this experience if these things aren't true? And you know, my family wasn't. It's kind of the opposite of you only say stuff when it's like to criticize and not to say something mean, I guess. Opposite of what is it? Thumper and Bambi, where if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. And I live by that for the most part. But my family was the opposite. And then my school experience kind of felt like the opposite. So there were just a lot of limiting beliefs that I. I came to see about myself. And I feel like only in the past couple of years am I kind of breaking free of a lot of them. Or maybe not breaking free, but you know, loosening. Loosening.

A (23:04)

Yeah, loosening their grip. And so then how did things play out romantically?

B (23:09)

I was just not interested in boys until I had a friend who was a really. Just really toxic person. She also came from a really dysfunctional family. There was a lot of like drug things. I know her brother, her older brother was in jail at the time where we were friends. So she kind of was the one who took me, like, literally from playing with Barbies to, like, we're in AOL chat rooms and lying about how old we are. At some point she was like, we need to meet up with some of these guys. And at the time, you know, I was like. I felt really uncomfortable with it, but I was like, okay, this is what kids do. Let's do it. But looking back, I'm like, holy shit. Like, we were lying about how old we were. Dudes were lying about how young they were. It was, like, really fucked up. And then I. I had, like, my own boyfriends from school after that, but I was just, like, having a boyfriend because it seemed like I should have a boyfriend, but I was. There were not ever people I was, like, interested in or there was just, like, nice enough kind of thing. One of. One of my boyfriends when I was 15, ended up. He was like a computer person. And he kind of, like, stopped me, like, he would have.

A (24:30)

Computer person.

B (24:31)

You know, a computer.

A (24:32)

Computer person. One of those computer people.

B (24:34)

He had whatever, installed some kind of, like, thing so like, he could see whatever I was, what it was online. Which, honestly was just, like, playing Sims and, like, chatting with my friends on aim. But I remember once I had figured out what he had done, I had broken up with him, and he was. He was just so unwell. But I remember breaking up with him, and I wasn't sure how to do it, so I ended up doing it. We were like, a block or two from my house, and I kind of broke the news, and we pull into the driveway, and I'm going to storm in and I'm going to tell your whole family, like, what a slut you are and, like, how terrible you are and, like, blah, blah, blah. You're not the little angel that they. They think you are. And I remember running up, grabbing him by the T shirt and shoving him up against the tree and being like, get the fuck away from my family and my house. And he ended up leaving. But a week or two later, I came home from school and there he was talking to my grandfather. And so I, you know, had to tell my family, like, he's not welcome to come back here. Don't let him in when. If he comes. So that was kind of the start of having kind of a slew of more abusive partners. I had one very kind partner in the middle of all of it. But surprise, he was boring. He was. He was absolutely wonderful, but absolutely boring. Really kind heart. He definitely had his own issues. He was like a bodybuilder. We. It Was like, he was very restricted in what he would do. Everything centered around, like, weight lifting competitions and readiness for things, like, different shows. So there was definitely, I see a lot of, like, addictive tendencies in how he was. And I ended up breaking up with him to go out with somebody who I had worked with in high school and always had a huge crush on. And to no surprise, like, that man was also very abusive physically, emotionally, financially. Just kind of checked all of those really icky boxes. But it took me a long time to feel like I could safely get out of that relationship and even then ended up breaking into my apartment and, you know, stealing stuff and trashing other things I had just bought. And yeah, that. That was so, yeah, my dating histories, a lot of just kind of people I didn't either wasn't interested in or they were cool assholes. Assholes. Yeah.

A (27:07)

And then when did you meet your husband?

B (27:09)

So I met my. I broke up with. With that last terrible boyfriend in probably like March of 2014. And so that was like my hot girl summer. And I met my husband in the end of June of 2014. And we had met on Tinder. My friends were all like, just join. Just join. So I did. I put nothing in my profile. I just put up a couple pictures. And he was the first person. Not the first, but he was the first person I had met from Tinder, you know, a friend. And I went to meet up with him and some friends. And our state is small. We end up having mutual friends, but he was just so kind and considerate and definitely a bit awkward, but, like, very put together and that was so refreshing. And so we ended up having, like, seeing each other nearly every day for the. Maybe we went out, met up on a Monday or Tuesday at a bar, and then we saw each other most of the days after that. And then that weekend was the 4th of July, and I ended up going. His, like, friends of his have a beach house in Little Compton, Rhode Island. And so we had gone there and I just had the best time of my life. Like, my now husband and I, like, had so much fun together and all of us just clicked so well. And, you know, from there we were kind of inseparable.

A (28:39)

So do you want to share about what your experience has been like doing? Ifs.

B (28:44)

Yeah, I'm not sure where to start. Ifs.

A (28:48)

It seems like it has come to you pretty naturally.

B (28:50)

Yeah, it definitely feels that way. And it feels like it's come to me naturally. And parts of me still feel a little bit skeptical of just am I Doing this right. Should I feel this healed? I mean, even early on, I feel like I had made a lot of progress in it. But I think there's this just internal drive of. I like, I need to take care of myself, and I've gotten a taste of what that feels like, and I want to, like, really work at it. And I'm a really visual person. Like, I can visualize things really well in my mind's eye. And so for me, you know, when I. Whenever we're diving into. In therapy, I kind of close my eyes and my therapist is guiding me through, asking me questions about the. The experience. And then we're kind of checking in with parts. And a lot of my parts pretty readily will show themselves.

A (29:43)

And do you see them as visions of you?

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D (30:16)

Buying a car in Carvana was so easy. I was able to finance it through them.

B (30:19)

I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance.

D (30:22)

Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options, all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.

B (30:35)

Financed, right? That's what they said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval, additional terms and conditions may apply. I see them as past, you know, like younger versions of myself. Yeah, so I have the middle schooler part, who initially first presented itself as like a tornado. Like, it's. And it's also when I meet a part in ifs therapy, it's really emotional. There's a. There's crying and there's all of these ahas that kind of are like going off as if it's like a grand finale at like a fireworks show of, oh, my God, oh, my God. This makes sense now. And it definitely takes me a while to like, unpack all of the. Everything that I kind of like work through in a session. But, you know, like my middle schooler presented as a Tornado. And come to find out it's just this adorable little tornado who is really just, like, trying to use her energy to restore chaos that, like, restore calm to a situation that needs to be.

A (31:39)

The name of a cartoon show. The adorable little tornado.

B (31:42)

I mean, as a kid, my favorite Looney Tune was Tasmanian Devil. And so it just makes sense in a weird way. Like, I wasn't allowed to be a tornado. You know, like, I had to follow the rules because it felt like that was the only wise option. Like, I couldn't be a kid necessarily. But there were just so many parts of me that, like, had a really hard time staying quiet and not asking too many questions and being palatable. And it kind of seems like that part turns into a more chaotic tornado when they're just constantly feeling misunderstood or pushed aside and shit just doesn't make sense. And so it's kind of like maybe they're angry or confused, frustrated side. It's been really pivotal for me in understanding, I guess, what I would have described as, like, inner turmoil. I know I've heard people talk about how they can have the angel on one side and the devil on the other side. It's not really my internal experience. It's just, you know, like a whole bunch of parts speaking up at once sometimes or kind of like tug of warring. What do we do here? We're like, no, we can't do that. That's not whatever, you know, Like, I have opinions about that. Don't do that, or don't do it that way. So it's been actually really helpful in clearing up a lot of that inner chaos, you know, Like, I feel like now and my parts also in the past, like, month or so, like, they're helping each other in session. And so, like, the tiny tornado part was, like, helping a really angry part work through their anger. And my therapist, I don't know if this is common for ifs therapy or just this therapist practice, but she'll have me, like, kind of choose a container and pack all of a certain feeling into it and then has me choose an element to release it.

A (33:26)

I love that. I've never heard that.

B (33:27)

That's a. Yeah, so. And it's kind of cool, you know, like, there's these, like, tricky feelings about my aunt. And so the container I chose with this was this, like, little pirates chest kind of jewelry box that she's always had. And so I, like, packed it all up in that. And like, we. I don't remember what element we sent that off into, but I ended up at My aunt's. A couple weeks after I had packed up my feelings about her, and I walk into her. We had. She had to get something in her room, and I walked with her and I see that little jewelry box. And it's just kind of like, you know, in the live action Jumanji where it's like the book and it's kind of like playing along. It's like I was kind of getting vibes of that going on of just. I. Yeah, like, you were like a box containing a whole. A whole bunch of big feelings about Leila. And here, here I am looking at you. So there is something really cathartic about finding the right container. And just somehow, you know, as I'm like, talk. Talking in my mind with the parts, it just kind of like, naturally it's, oh, this is what I'm going to choose. Or, you know, like, I'm not just pulling things out of thin air. There's usually, like, in the moment and afterwards I'm like, seeing the significance of how I came to choose the container, how I chose to element if there were, like, other family members there helping me take care of that. And that's the other really interesting piece about ifs therapy for me is it's pulled a lot of generational trauma to the forefront, and so have these experiences in session where it's like I'm connecting with my great grandmother or great great grandmother, these women that I've never met and have very few stories of them to even go off of. But then as I've learned more about my family in the past year, it's, oh, you know, I have a great great grandmother. Sherigan was her last name. And I'd only ever seen a picture of her, so she was kind of present for one of these IFS experiences. But then I learned a bit about what she had gone through or at least like, what, you know, what was shared by that family member. And, like, it makes sense why she was there helping me. So there's. There's definitely a skepticism around those experiences because they just seem like, how is this.

A (35:54)

Yeah, it seems so just out there.

B (35:56)

Yeah. But at the same time, like, the healing that I get from it and kind of like everything that. That I learn after these experiences is just like, holy shit, that makes so much sense. And. Yeah. So it's kind of been like, almost like a historical deep dive on my family in a lot of ways, too.

A (36:14)

That's really cool.

B (36:16)

Yeah.

A (36:16)

Do you want to talk about what navigating this process as a parent has.

B (36:20)

Been like, oh, yeah, it's really hard trying to keep it together in a way that I like, in a way that I feel comfortable. Like I have two young kids, like, they need a lot. And so it's difficult being kind of like pulled out of my own head thinking, thinking through these experiences or trying to figure out how to take care of these things while also being yelled at to come play Barbies or like, I could wipe somebody's butt. But it's hard to show up in those moments. I feel like lately it feels like it's been getting easier and I'm kind of trying to figure out where that pivot was for me. But yeah, it's. It's almost if something comes up with the kids and I'm kind of in a real. A place of really deep thought and I'm startled out of it, I kind of show up a lot more reactive than I would without kind of being, I don't know, entranced feels like too strong of a word. But like, being startled definitely will change. Startled out of that will change my reaction. I feel like I have these really high standards for myself as a parent and I have a lot of examples of what not to do. And there are parts of me that feel really concerned that I'm not accounting for really important things. There are things that aren't on my radar that really need to be. And so I did a two month long mindfulness study and that was really helpful and just helping me slow down. I feel like there's this part of me that's just always doing everything in like, hyperspeed. And so through that, those two months of doing that study, it really slowed me down in a really beneficial way because I was feeling really impatient with, with my kids taking so long to get their shoes on or get out of the house or like, why are we putting on jackets and taking off jackets and then whatever, having to go change our clothes, it doesn't make sense to me. Like, we need to be in the car 20 minutes ago. And so it's been a challenge trying to figure out, like, how do I show up as the parent I want in a way that feels good to me while also learning how to make time to take care of myself. I feel like for my whole life, like, taking care of myself was the last thing I ever looked to do. And. And so trying to find some kind of a balance of putting myself first. But also the three of us were the top three. Sorry, my husband's like a number four, but it's been a tricky juggling act of, like, how. How do I carry out taking care of myself and not giving them the short end of a stick? Because that's. That's my biggest priority is, like, making sure that I'm showing up for them and in a healthy way. I think it's been really helpful for me to understand that the rupture with kids and like, a parent kid relationship is important to have because the model of the repair is pivotal. And for me, like, there was so much rupture, there was no repair. And so that's kind of been like a guiding light of sorts. Of it's okay to mess up. Like, I get very startled by loud noises, and my daughter loves to just scream, and my son loves to throw stuff. And the other day, he threw a plate on the floor because he was hungry. Like, he was hungry dinner. You know, he wanted dinner to be ready earlier than it was, and he threw a plate, and it scared the heck out of me. And I remember getting really close to his face, being like, stop throwing stuff, because he had been throwing stuff all evening, and I was just so over it. And it's, like, making me take longer to be able to cook food because I'm having to clean up whatever or protect the dog from getting hit with something. And just in the same moment of yelling at him to stop and, like, questioning, why are you doing this? I know exactly why he's doing it, and I'm so upset with myself for yelling at him. And he starts crying because he's also startled by loud noises. And so then we're just like, you know, and then he's just attached to me, and I'm apologizing. I'm really sorry. That dish really scared me when I heard it fall. But it's not okay for me to yell at you that way. And that didn't feel good to me, and I can tell it doesn't feel good to you. And, you know, I always make it a point to check back, you know, whatever at the dinner table. So, like, maybe 20 minutes later, I'm, like, checking back in and saying, I want to say I'm really sorry for yelling at you. Like, you didn't deserve that. And then again at bedtime, like, we're talking about it. And more recently, I'm also finding that I'm able to, like, even, like, a day or two later, if at some point, if something happens that reminds me of that instance, I'll be like, oh, my God. Remember the other day, like, when this happened, Like, I was thinking about it, and I Just want to say sorry, and I love you. And so I'm really. It feels really good to realize how many points of repair there are. Like, there's just so much opportunity for the repair. And so whenever it dawns on me that I can take this as an opportunity, I do what I can to make it happen. And so that while I feel like sometimes I feel like a demon yelling at my kids in a reactive way, it also just. It feels so uplifting to be like, no. Like, I'm not my parents. I'm not my family. Like, I'm doing all of this effort to take care of myself, so this doesn't happen as often. And, you know, it's happening less and less often over time. But also, like, I'm modeling all of these different ways to make up for what happened and to, like, help them feel comfortable. And so as parenting happens, things come up and you're like, oh, my God, like, this is triggering something in me that I've never thought twice about. And, you know, kind of, like, spurs, like, a deep dive of my experiences was like. And, you know, if it doesn't just immediately come to me, like, how do I help them through it? You know, like, I. I'll look to, like, different parenting resources to, like, figure out, like, what kind of approach do I want to be taking here, and then, you know, learn whatever I need to and kind of start practicing that. So it's tricky because sometimes, like, something triggering will. A situation therein will come up. And obviously I'm not expecting it. And so my initial reaction is just, holy fuck. What the fuck do I do? But it does feel good on the latter end of that coming back to be like, wow, I'm so glad that that ended up coming up. And I've healed my past experiences, and they seem to be really well taken care of. There's, like, a lot of growth on their end from having walked through it together.

A (43:19)

It's really beautiful.

B (43:21)

Thanks.

A (43:22)

You're doing a good job.

B (43:23)

It feels really good to show up as a parent. And also a part of a huge part of this process is the grief. There are, like, sometimes days or weeks where I feel like I'm just, like, so burdened down by all of the grief that I feel. And it definitely fills me up to know that I'm, you know, like, my kids aren't dealing with these things alone. I'm right there with them every step of the way. But to have to recall that aloneness feeling so vividly and to just feel so angry of, like, why wasn't anybody showing up for me in this way. You know, like, why was. Why was I sitting in that room after I did literally nothing wrong, wondering why I got in trouble for what my cousin did and just nobody came to check on me. There were two other adults in the house when that happened, when my aunt threw me. Like, nobody bothered to come out of their room and like check in. And so I don't. There's a lot of grief there and then it's a lot of. It usually kind of ends up helping me unpack some limit limiting beliefs about myself, but it's a process and it takes a lot out of me. It just, it feels like it's just never ending cycle, working through stuff while life is going on. It's a lot to keep up with.

A (44:41)

Do you want to share about what being a part of the community has, how that's aided in your healing?

B (44:46)

Yeah, I think one of the bigger things is it's. There's so much opportunity to help, to show up and validate others experiences. And through validating their experience and you know, just offering support, like, it feels like I'm healing those parts of myself. Like whatever parts of me relate to whatever experience, even if it's not an experience, I think I would come up whatever face on my own. They're inevitably even just reading about people's experiences or their shares or their events. It's just so much opportunity to. To find more healing and to grow and to challenge my own beliefs about others, you know, like maybe even opposing sides of my own story, to hear the other side and find the compassion for them and for me. And it's also helpful to just hear all the perspectives and you know, people respond in ways that wouldn't come to me on my own. And so kind of getting that big variety of lived experiences and perspectives is profoundly helpful. And it feels so good having a whole team of cheerleaders, not in a cringe way, but like in the most beautiful, uplifting, supportive way. And for me, like so much of my life experience has been like, why is it that the people who are closest to me, who should love and want to protect me and care for me, can't be bothered but to help a bunch of people who like, you've never met just show up for you with like open arms and like an open heart day after day just feels incredible. It feels incredible.

A (46:24)

Well, you have shown up so vulnerable, so authentic, very inspirational. And you've been doing the work, girl, and I've been seeing it pay off.

B (46:34)

Yeah, it definitely feels I feel like I'm really getting somewhere, especially since I've started ifs. But overall, since I've kind of deepened my understanding of what it means to be an adult child and how that shapes our life experiences and how to work through and overcome a lot of those obstacles, I'm really proud of myself for. For my undying persistence. It's just. It feels endless and I'm really thankful for it. And I'm also really tired.

A (47:06)

Well, that's a perfect segue because what are three things that you like about yourself?

B (47:11)

I love how readily I accept and just love and value other people. It feels weird to say out loud, but I think that's also still a reflection of, you know, what I just said, of the people who should love you and be all of these things for you aren't. And so it feels really good to me that I can show up in the world with people I love and with complete strangers in that way, I guess. Something else. I do really like that persistence. I feel like that's. That's what's gotten me so far. I never really had the ability to see myself in the future and I never could really understand why that was. Coming up with long term goals for me is hard, but without that persistence being so strong, I don't know that I would be here today. One more. I like how creative I am. Can find an upside in a lot of really tricky situations. And there's this part of me that always wants to create something beautiful in whatever scenario it is.

A (48:14)

Hope or dream for the future?

B (48:15)

That's a good question. Let's see. I think. I think one of my bigger hopes is being able to grow like the inner peace and calmness that I've always strongly desired. I feel like it's getting there, but I really, I wanna. I don't know, let's see. How to put it into words. I think. I feel like it's an attainable goal to reach this point where I'm able to manage whatever comes up in a more smooth way and kind of maintain stability in kind of like my inner world. So I guess that would be my bigger, my biggest hope and dream for myself.

A (48:54)

Well, thanks, Grilly. I loved getting to know you better.

B (48:57)

Yeah, this has been really great. Your business is one of a kind.

D (49:21)

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