Unpacking Dysfunctional Family Roles: 3 Sisters, 3 Very Different Childhoods

Summary

Adult Child Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Unpacking Dysfunctional Family Roles: 3 Sisters, 3 Very Different Childhoods
Host: Andrea
Guests: Kayla Nays (eldest sister, 31), Mariah (middle sister, 29), Jackie (youngest sister, 24)
Date: April 16, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, Andrea invites three sisters—Kayla, Mariah, and Jackie—to share their firsthand accounts of growing up in the same dysfunctional, alcoholic family in rural North Dakota. They explore how, despite sharing the same household, each sister developed a unique emotional reality, coping mechanism, and adult trajectory. Their raw, vulnerable conversation touches on childhood chaos, generational trauma, codependency, toxic shame, complex PTSD, and the lifelong journey of healing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. When Did You Realize Your Childhood Affected You?

• Kayla: Always sensed "something was off," particularly when noticing peers had "family vacations" and regular family time, which her family lacked. Realized the depth of dysfunction more upon leaving home and struggling with relationships and codependency.
  Quote [12:24]:
  "I think I always knew there was something off... But I don't think I really realized how bad it was until I was out of the house and started to retaliate or rebel... There's always light bulbs going off as I'm listening to your podcast about all of that, like codependency, ptsd..."
• Mariah: Early awareness came from futile attempts to describe family turmoil to friends whose lives were far more stable. Felt like an outsider from a young age, which developed into a “victim mentality” during college.
  Quote [13:32]:
  "I learned to kind of not talk about some of the stuff that we experienced because they had, like, parents that went to work, had family dinners... It was so unpredictable. It was like riding the bus home—we didn’t know if it was a good night or a bad night."
• Jackie: Bonded with a best friend from another dysfunctional home; they would swap houses depending on which was safer at the time. Was always vocal about the problems, but nothing changed until she sought therapy recently.
  Quote [17:31]:
  "I always just knew. I just never really acted on it, if that makes sense."

2. What Did Dysfunction Look Like?

• Family History of Alcoholism & Trauma: Both parents’ lineages rife with addiction and trauma; paternal grandparents owned bars, contributing to a normalized drinking culture.
• Abuse & Neglect: Physical abuse, mainly witnessed rather than experienced, and profound emotional neglect. Fights often turned violent, typically fueled by alcohol, with money as a recurring theme.
  Quote [20:46] (Kayla):
  "She [mom] crawled into my bed... crying, but obviously drunk... My dad comes charging up the stairs, freaking out... grabbed her by the hair and pulled her to the ground and started kicking her."
• Verbal & Emotional Abuse: More characterized by abandonment and the parents' preoccupation with their own issues, leading to the girls feeling forgotten.
  Quote [23:37] (Kayla):
  "I kind of more relate about the abandonment with you where it's kind of like they were so consumed with their own issues that we were kind of forgotten."
• Alcohol as a Never-Addressed Problem:
  • The health consequences of drinking were acknowledged ("alcohol is killing people"), but stopping or seeking help was never discussed.
  • Alcohol was omnipresent and used to celebrate, commiserate, or simply as a daily activity.
    Quote [28:12] (Mariah):
    "There was a lot of talk of how alcohol was killing people in our family, but it was not discussed to quit drinking or slow down or to fix anything. It was just this sad, somber, overhanging, this is terrible that this is happening, let's drink about it thing."

3. The Role of “Safe Adults” (Grandparents)

• Conflicting Experiences:
  • For Mariah, grandparents were a "saving grace" and source of stability, though she still felt unable to fully share how bad things at home were.
  • Kayla and Jackie saw the grandparents as enablers as much as safe harbors, highlighting the complexity of family dynamics.
  • Jackie was able to confide in her grandfather but felt shut down by her grandmother.
    Quote [31:42] (Mariah):
    "They were like, my saving grace... we would get picked up to go to school from here a lot. It was really nice knowing we'd have a warm, beautiful meal and there would be no yelling." Quote [31:54] (Kayla):
    "My grandparents were enablers to my parents... I did bring up abuse in my household, and it was very nonchalant. 'Oh, it's not that bad. They're okay.'"

4. Childhood Roles & Sibling Dynamics

• Classic Family Roles: Hero (caretaker), scapegoat, lost child, mascot.
  • Kayla: Protective, caretaker (hero role)—distracted her sisters from in-home chaos, felt relief and guilt upon escaping the house after high school.
  • Mariah: Academic achiever, approval-seeker—felt torn between relief and guilt when she left, worried about Jackie.
  • Jackie: Youngest and most isolated after both older sisters left—frequently couch-surfed, lacked a sense of “home,” and became fiercely independent.
    Quote [37:24] (Kayla):
    "I had to make sure that they weren’t hearing or getting involved as much as possible... Let’s distract them and get them playing, but then I'm also going to listen to what's going on downstairs."
• Impact of Leaving:
  • Kayla and Mariah both partied heavily as soon as they found freedom, using alcohol to numb complex feelings; Jackie felt abandoned and had no solid home, leading to risky behavior.
    Quote [42:05] (Jackie):
    "I didn't really have a home, I felt, my whole high school."

5. How Dysfunction Shapes Adult Relationships

• Patterns: All three sisters struggled with romantic relationships, often confusing love and pity and seeking to rescue troubled partners.
  • Kayla entered a marriage with a narcissist before finding healthier love.
  • Mariah acknowledges deep approval-seeking and a freeze response to angry people, still struggles with trusting her own romantic instincts.
  • Jackie gravitated toward relationships with addicts/narcissists and responds to conflict with anger and aggression.
• Quotes:
  • Kayla [46:00]: "We become addicted to excitement and we confuse love and pity and tend to love people we can pity and rescue."
  • Mariah [52:25]: "I am an approval seeker... I have to check myself—am I doing this because I want to or because I think people will like me for it?"
  • Jackie [53:12]: "Pretty much every substantial relationship I've had has been either an alcoholic, somebody that's addicted to drugs, or somebody that's severely narcissistic."

6. Current Relationships with Parents

• Kayla: Chooses limited contact with her father and accepts her parents as they are, focusing on her own healing and boundaries.
  Quote [57:33]:
  "I don't want to be close to him... it's not out of anger anymore, it's just a choice that I made for myself."
• Jackie: Is friendly but emotionally distant from both parents, especially her father; maintains regular contact with her mom, who is more of a peer than a parent.
  Quote [58:34]:
  "My mom has been just like more of a best friend than really, like, a nurturing mother."
• Mariah: Currently lives with both parents in their grandparents' former house as a form of closure and spiritual reconnection. She is grateful her father is no longer abusive but still finds active drinking in the household triggering.
  Quote [59:30]:
  "It's been really beautiful getting closer with mom... but tonight was one of those nights where I came home, and they're both very, very drunk, and dad was drooling, sitting up, sleeping."

7. Final Thoughts & Memorable Moments

• Collective Healing: The conversation itself was unexpectedly cathartic for the sisters. Quote [62:50] (Kayla):
  "This has been oddly healing. That's all I have to say. I think I can skip a meditation tonight."
• Humor Amidst Pain: The sisters recount, almost laughing, how the entire family got a DUI within a year, reflecting on how normalized dangerous behavior was in their small town. Quote [63:08] (Mariah):
  "Remember that fun year where every single one of us in our family got a DUI within a year."
• Small-Town Culture: Adult alcoholism and legal trouble (DUIs) were seen as a rite of passage rather than a crisis.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• "Those who break the cycle and those who repeat it."
  • Andrea opens [01:26]
• "There’s a unique kind of grief that comes with realizing you might never get the validation or connection that you longed for from your sibling."
  • Andrea [09:38]
• "We were always team mom... it was so damaging to see mom as, like, the hero and the right one, when really neither parent was very healthy."
  • Mariah [25:51]
• "Growing up, too, my mom has been just more of a best friend than a nurturing mother."
  • Jackie [58:34]
• "Tonight was one of those nights where I came home, and they’re both very, very drunk, and dad was drooling, sitting up, sleeping."
  • Mariah [59:30]
• "Every single one of us in our family got a DUI within a year... Like, that should be in a Guinness Book of world records."
  • Mariah [63:08]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [11:07] – Introductions: Sisters introduce themselves (Kayla, Mariah, Jackie)
• [12:04] – When did you realize you were affected by your upbringing?
• [18:36] – What did your dysfunctional family look like?
• [23:31] – Verbal & emotional abuse; sense of abandonment
• [25:51] – The parentification and “team mom” dynamic
• [31:42] – Grandparents’ influence and conflicting perspectives
• [36:46] – Discussing family roles and how they shifted over time
• [42:05] – How the sisters coped after the oldest left home
• [46:00] – Adult consequences: Relationship, rescue, and codependency patterns (the "laundry list" traits)
• [54:43] – Family today: Each sister's current relationship with parents
• [62:50] – Final reflections and family-wide DUIs
• [63:54] – Small town culture and normalization of dysfunction

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Takeaways

• Siblings can have vastly different experiences and recollections despite a shared dysfunctional environment. Each forms distinct survival strategies and emotional truths.
• The legacy of unaddressed trauma is persistent, but healing is possible. All three sisters are in various stages of breaking the cycle; therapy, self-reflection, and boundaries are key.
• Adult children of dysfunctional families often replicate—until they actively work to heal—the relationship dynamics they grew up observing.
• There is quiet resilience and even humor in facing the pain together. Sharing the burden lightens it, and finding community—within family or chosen circles—is crucial.

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For listeners navigating similar sibling dynamics or working through their own family legacies, this episode is a reminder: your pain, your story, and your healing are valid—even if your siblings’ memories look nothing like your own.

Transcript

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[Andrea]

There are two types of siblings in dysfunctional families. Those who break the cycle and those who repeat it. My name is Andrea and this is Adult Child. Welcome back to Adult Child where we take a deep dive into the impact of growing up in a dysfunctional family. Ahoy my dear Shit Show, Shit Show Nation. It's been a while since I've done that. For any new listeners, my name is Andrea. I am a total and complete shit show. I am an adult child of an alcoholic and dysfunctional family. I am a recovering alcoholic myself. I'm a recovering Candy Crush addict for real. I just want to let you guys know that I just released the first video of a series of YouTube videos that I'm doing. The series is called the Many Faces Faces of Functional Freeze. And this first face that we are exploring is my face, my breed of functional freeze which is the stuck and shame filled overthinker. And I gotta say there's very little content out there specifically talking to this as it relates to functional freeze. I remember googling functional freeze and procrastination and finding very little out there about it so I'm really hoping that this can reach a lot of people because I want to be honest, I think that there is like a functional freeze epidemic out there. I think a shitload of people are in functional freeze and have no damn clue that they are. So go see this video. You can find a link to it in the show notes. And if you can relate, you gotta hop on this Breathe to Heal workshop, this six week somatic breathwork course that is being facilitated by fellow Shitshow member Teresa, who is a somatic and breathwork practitioner. If you are relating to this stuck and shame filled overthinker face of functional freeze, this is what has helped me to thaw out breath work. Somatic work. This is at a steal of a price. This is way cheaper than your typical somatic breathwork course. So don't sleep on this. Your nervous system is asking for you to do this. You can also find a link for this in the show notes or you can go to adultchildpodcast.com breathe to heal. That's Breathe with an E at the end. So, for anybody who may not know, I am currently on a hiatus working on the relaunch of this podcast. And in the meantime, I'm sharing with you Oldies but goodies. But I wanted to take a moment to share something that came up for me recently related to the podcast and related to this whole idea of, you know, taking space for ourselves, choosing ourselves. So I had it in my head that I wanted Tian Dayton, who is been on the podcast several times before, she is one of the actual pioneers of the adult child movement, to be a part of my relaunch. So I've been communicating with her back and forth and she's totally down for it. But then she told me that she couldn't record until June. And so at first I felt this big internal tug of war. Like, part of me knew that it would be worth waiting for, but another part of me panicked, thinking, you know, people are going to be really disappointed in me if I don't start releasing new episodes sooner than that. And so even though I'm still, you know, showing up with the weekly Shitshow Saturday episodes and doing every other aspect of my job, it still brought up that old fear, that feeling like that if I'm not doing everything right now, that I'm somehow letting people down. But after talking about it with my therapist, I landed on what I already knew deep down inside, which is it is okay to wait. It is okay to take the time that I need. It is okay to choose what's best for me, even when that stirs up some guilt or fear. And so I just wanted to share that because I'm sure someone needed to hear that, too. So maybe you're in a season where choosing yourself feels hard or scary, where slowing down feels wrong, even if that's what you desperately need. I get it. I get it. And I want you to know that it's not just okay to do what's right for you. It is absolutely necessary. So, yes, the full relaunch is coming this summer. And in the meantime, I'm still showing up. I'll be here every Saturday. You can find me on the old YouTube. I'm really working on building my YouTube channel. I'm really close to getting ad revenue, to meeting the threshold to getting YouTube ad revenue. So please go give a little gal a little follow on the YouTube. So today, folks, we be going way back. We be going all the way back to adult child episode number 28. This was where I interviewed three sistas who shared their experience of growing up in the same dysfunctional family, the same alcoholic and dysfunctional family, what that looked like for them, and how that has played out in their lives as adults. I'm sure many of you guys listening right now can relate to you and your siblings growing up in the same home, yet coming away with two totally different stories. And I don't just mean different memories, but, like, completely different emotional realities. And if you're the one doing the damn work to heal and your sibling isn't, or if they're still in denial about what actually happened, that can hurt in a whole different way. There is a unique kind of grief that comes with realizing you might never get the validation or connection that you longed for from your sibling. You might also carry this quiet, unspoken resentment towards them. Maybe they got the attention, or they. Maybe they seemed to escape the worst of it. And then you feel guilty for feeling that way. But let me just say this resentment doesn't make you a bad person. It means that there's pain there that deserves to be acknowledged. Now, I'm sure some of y' all had siblings who were your lifelines, like the only other person who really got it. And as a only child, I have to be honest that I am a little jealous, a little jealous of that, because I know that those bonds can be so deep. But at the same time, I also know that they can also come with their own weight. When you have survived something together, sometimes it feels like you owe it to each other to keep surviving together. And that can be a lot to carry. So whether you're trying to rebuild with a sibling, trying to set new boundaries with a sibling, or grieve the relationship you wish that you had, just know that it is all absolutely valid. So wherever you're at with your own sibling story, I hope that this conversation helps you feel just a little bit more scene. So let's get on with the damn show. But first, let's talk about why you, yes, you need to damn the join shit show. My online support community where I host four weekly zoom support groups where you have at least six groups a week. Okay? This week, for example, we got three shit show support groups. We got book club, we got ifs healing group with trauma coach Jesse D. We got the employment struggle sesh, we have the childhood sexual abuse group. So this is where you can come just as you are and find love and acceptance. This is where you can come invent, get advice, crack a joke, meet new friends for less than a dollar a day. Okay? This is relational trauma. We heal relational trauma in safe relationships. This is a place where you can do so. So how about you just do it now? Yes, you the person that's been wanting to join for forever. How about today's your day? How about today's the damn day? You can go to adult child podcast.com shitshow or see the link in the bio. Just do it now. Just do it. Next, give me a little follow on the insta on the TikTok at adult child pod. And last but not least, whatever you do, please, please, please give me the five star rating on Apple and Spotify. You know what? I just gave myself a review. After. After harping on this shit for four years, I figured it was finally time to take my own advice. Thanks. Love you all. Well, it is my pleasure to introduce the Tres Amigas, the three sisters. Welcome, girls. So let's go in chronological order here. So, big sis, announce yourself.

[Kayla Nays]

I am kayla nays. I'm 31. I'm 32. In a couple months.

[Andrea]

Middle, little middle girl.

[Mariah]

Hi, my name is Mariah. I'm the middle sister. I am 29 years old.

[Jackie]

Okay, Jackie. I'm Jackie. I'm 24 years old.

[Andrea]

So where I was thinking we could start before we talk about your. Your upbringings, I was wondering, wondering if each of you had a moment, let's say 18 and older, like in quote, unquote, adulthood. Was there a particular moment that you realized that you had been negatively impacted by your upbringing? Was there a period in time where you realized, oh, I think this might have fucked me up a little bit. So let's start with you, Kayla.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah, I think, honestly I think I knew. I think I always knew there was something off. A lot of my friends would have things like, oh, I don't know, family vacations.

[Mariah]

And.

[Kayla Nays]

Things like that. And I'm like, that's interesting. I wonder why we don't do those. And certain things like escaping my parents house. I guess growing up to just be with my friends and away from the house and other people can have like, you know, functional family time. That was kind of few and far between. But I don't think I really realized like how bad it was until I was out of the house and started to kind of like retaliate or rebel or I don't know, I was. I found freedom for the first time, like just me, by myself. So I got into a lot of trouble. And then I think that's kind of where I was like, okay, there's like, why am I doing these things? But it was mostly like when I listen to your podcast especially what I connect to is more of the relationship issues. There's always light bulbs going off as I'm listening to your podcast about all of that, like codependency, ptsd, all that stuff is, it's huge and it's. And it's something I've had to work on for a long time.

[Andrea]

Thank you for sharing, Caleb.

[Mariah]

Mariah, My answer is really similar too. I just remember being a little kid. Like I remember being out on the playground in grade school and trying to explain to my two best girlfriends at the time something that had happened the night before. And their parents, they didn't even know what to say. To me, it was awkward. And then, I mean, I just learned to kind of not talk about some of the stuff that we experienced because they had like parents that went to work, worked like a 9 to 5, came home, they had family dinners together and stuff like that. And we did do that at times, you know, but it was so unpredictable. It was so dysfunctional. It was like riding the bus home. We didn't know if it was a good night, if it was a bad night, if they were. If we were going to see them before we went to bed, if we were going to see them, if it was going to be like chaotic and psycho or if we were even going to be able to sleep in our own house or if we would have to leave. So it was just kind of a lot of dysfunction. And yeah, like once I got old enough, I mean, here in you Know, rural North Dakota, you can drive at 14. So once I got my permit and then that way.

[Kayla Nays]

No, I think you have to be 16 now, even out in these parts.

[Jackie]

Yeah, unless you have like a farmer's license, then you can drive on the farm when you're under 16.

[Mariah]

Yeah, but like, I mean, yeah, we were 14 driving and like, being able to like, you know, I think mom attempted to like, give us curfews and stuff, but I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I. I snuck out a lot. And so once, once I knew that they were drinking heavy and it was one of those nights, you know, and they'd go to bed, I just knew that I had free range to kind of do what I wanted. I just started up my little Honda Civic and just drove out of the yard. Like, I wasn't afraid of really anything. I just had to get back home before 6am or something.

[Kayla Nays]

And.

[Mariah]

Yeah, so I think I always kind of realized that things were off. And then when I went to college, all of the friends that I were, that I was making that were from the bigger cities and stuff that came to college, they all had a lot different upbringing and families and stuff. And it just made me feel a little weird and kind of. And. And then that like, victim mentality started to get to me where I was like, no one understands. You know, I grew up different. You know, I didn't have those opportunities or those chances. Well, your parents, like, are there for you. And, you know, I started doing all that. So it just kind of was a downward spiral from there.

[Andrea]

The first time I drove a car was when I was 14 too. I don't think I've shared this story on the podcast, but. So my dad was out of town and my mom was drunk and passed out. And so for some reason, I just decided that it would be a good time to, you know, drive for the first time. So I was just kind of like driving around like a block and I. I turned too sharply and I knocked the. The side view mirror off the car. So then I drove home. And then as soon as I got home, I had already talked to my dad earlier that night. He knew that my mom had been drinking. And so I called my dad and I was like, dad, I just heard the garage door, like, go down. Like, mom went out and drove. And he was like, well, go look at the car. And I like, go into the garage. I was like, oh, my God. I was like, the side view mirror is, is knocked off. And then I go walk into the living Room where she's been passed out the whole time, and I'm, like, on the phone with my dad, and I'm.

[Kayla Nays]

Like, mom, where did you go? Like, where did you go?

[Andrea]

And.

[Kayla Nays]

And she.

[Andrea]

And she. It actually had, like, a big impact, like, on her. Like, she'd never done anything like that before, where she just, like, drove randomly in a blackout. So I think that, like, that did scare her some. And she stayed sober, like, for a little while after that. I remember her asking me a few days later, was that you? And I said no. And then I told her. I don't know. When I eventually told her, it was like, enough. Years had obviously gone by where I.

[Kayla Nays]

Couldn'T get into trouble for it.

[Mariah]

So.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah, that was a good one.

[Andrea]

Okay, Jackie, your turn for me, too.

[Jackie]

It's still pretty similar. I feel like we all have pretty similar stories. I just always knew something was off. My best friend since I was, like, four until into high school, she had a really dysfunctional family, too. So me and her both just kind of stuck together and really clung to each other growing up. So we kind of bounced back and forth from, like, I'd stay for a week at her house until her dysfunction.

[Kayla Nays]

Got too bad, and then we'd go.

[Jackie]

To my house until my dysfunction got too bad. So we just kind of kept to each other and didn't talk about it. And then when our relationship kind of fell out, I wasn't silent about it. I was very vocal about what was happening in my house when I was in high school, and nobody really did anything about it. So I think I kind of knew. And I didn't take steps to better myself or the situation until, like, recently. Like, the last couple of years, I've been to therapy and things like that, but I always just knew. I just never really acted on it, if that makes sense.

[Andrea]

Yeah, I mean, you're young, too. You don't know what the fuck you're doing, so.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Andrea]

So feel free for anyone to answer this, but, like, if we wanted to describe what your dysfunctional family looked like.

[Kayla Nays]

There'S a lot of drinking. Both mom and dad. Yes. I mean, just kind of knowing what I know now. My mom came from a mother who passed away when she was seven years old, and then she had to take care of her alcoholic father. So knowing that now and knowing who she is because of that, that's that. And then my dad, super, super dysfunctional. He was born to a mental. My grandma has mental illness. I guess a couple people in our family has said, you know, bipolar disorder. We're not sure. She's not on any meds right now. But then his dad was a very angry, abusive drunk and she divorced him and then he remarried. So step grandma was definitely a drinker, heavy, heavy drinker. And then they owned multiple bars. So a lot of our childhood stuff was like, walk to the bar after work, stuff like that. So it was. Yeah, it was a lot of drinking. There wasn't any, like, hard drugs involved in my life or our lives, I should say. Unless we're talking about my uncle, my dad's youngest brother. He was definitely in and out of prison our whole lives, mostly drinking. But drugs were involved. I know too. It was just kind of something we didn't really talk about too much with him. But, yeah, it was a lot of. A lot of drinking and a lot of abuse with my parents too. We were never. There were a couple times with me that I was physically hit, not with his hands, but by objects. Thankfully I wasn't, so I can't, you know, compare myself to any of that. But I did witness it with my mom, so that was tough growing up.

[Andrea]

That was going to be. My question would be, was what was their relationship like?

[Kayla Nays]

It was pretty. Yeah.

[Andrea]

Like, I read.

[Kayla Nays]

I distinctly remember. It's like one of my most vivid memories. I think I was 8 or 9, but my mom came up. It had to have been like five in the morning or something like that because the sun was coming up. And she crawled into my bed and I had like kind of a high bed at the time. It was like. I don't know if you guys remember, like, the platform bed with all the shelves and stuff in it. So it was like high off the ground. And she came crawling in and she was crying, but obviously drunk, like, smelt at everything. And my dad comes charging up the stairs and is like, freaking out about her cheating on him because they had their mutual friend over for the night and he got called to work. He worked on the railroad and they get called whenever. And he was pissed off about something, grabbed her by the hair and pulled her to the ground and started kicking her. And I was in so much shock. I just like jumped up on the bed and started screaming and he just completely ignored me, like I wasn't there and left for work. And then she got up and went downstairs and I was like, oh. So that was the first, like, vivid memory I remember of, like, seeing it. I remember hearing it before that but never seeing it.

[Andrea]

What would they. Were there things that they typically would fight about? Were there, like, themes or.

[Kayla Nays]

It Was almost always money. It was, it was she. If she's going to stay home all day with kids, the house should be clean. I make all the money around here. You should be a better parent. You should be doing more. You should. And it was never like, I don't remember him doing that sober very often. Like they'd have like little conversations, but it would always be wasted fights. So.

[Andrea]

And would they ever talk to you about their relationship or like, did you ever like, did your mom ever have a conversation with you ever about him being like physically abusive? Like, would they try to get you involved in fights? There's Kiki.

[Kayla Nays]

No, they. It was a very hush hush thing. Like I like Jacqueline kind of. We had another family that the mom was really close to my mom and the dad was really close to my dad. And they were both super abusive assholes growing up. And there was us girls and then there were two girls that were from that family and one of the girls in my grade and the other one was a couple of years older. And yeah, it was just like we kind of bonded together. Like a trauma bond at a very young age because we didn't know what to do or who to talk to. And since the same thing was happening in those households, it was like, we're just gonna talk about it and be close together. Cause this is crazy. So. And a lot of the time they would go out drinking together and stuff too. So it was just easy, I think for them.

[Andrea]

Was there a lot of verbal or emotional abuse directed at you or any of you guys?

[Kayla Nays]

No, like, I kind of more relate about the abandonment with you where it's kind of like they were so consumed with their own issues that we were kind of forgotten.

[Andrea]

Go ahead, Mariah.

[Mariah]

I was gonna say something about. Yeah, that. Oh, it was still to this day I don't know how to like introduce or think of that other family besides just saying, like, you know, we're family friends. Just because like we were literally bonded together with certain, with certain kids our age or similar in age because we had alcoholic parents and like really similar upbringings. So like a lot of like. I don't know what else to say because like right now, like I'm not really super like BFF with them anymore, you know. And like the only thing that we really not only, I mean, I love them, but like we bond over the fact that that we grew up the same. And I remember there were several nights where mom would be, you know, dad would be at work or wherever he was not home and she would be Down. Remember she had that file cabinet that was just full of cigarette ashes because she would stand there and smoke cigarettes. The window. And so I just remember sitting in the chair or sitting on that big desk and, like, sitting next to her, and she's just chain smoking cigarettes and drinking and crying and, like, trying to talk to me about whatever dad or something. I don't like for me personally, I just remember dad being like, she's a shitty mom. You know, whatever. And then he would pull out the money thing, like, oh, you're gonna leave? I'm taking the car keys. That's my car. I'm taking the checkbook. That's my money. You know, where are you gonna go? These are my friends. This is my family. You have nowhere to go. And, you know, he would pull the, like, you're a bad mom card all the time. And I just remember being so confused because I'm like, she's a. Like, what are you talking about? And I just was. I don't know. I just remember being really confused, like, the whole time and not knowing. Obviously, we were a team mom, like, the whole. The whole time. And now, like, as an adult and doing own therapy and understanding more about being an adult child and understanding more about my own addiction and codependency and attachment styles and everything. I understand completely how, like, obviously our parents pin us against each other and they want us to be on their team, and we were always team mom. But, yeah, yeah, it's not until now, pretty much like, the last few years, where I've just really started to understand how damaging it was to see mom as, like, the hero and like, the right one, when really she's, you know, we neither parent was very healthy or, you know, our attachment styles to both parents were both extremely, vastly different and not healthy in either direction. So I think one of the most interesting things that I found from listening to this podcast, Andrea, is just realizing how much both of our parents are adult children, like, clearly, and how much two adult children from such dysfunctional homes had three adult children who are now trying to navigate what the hell it is that, like, you know, it's generational trauma. And we're just, for the first time, I mean, us three sisters trying to figure out our own stories and how to undo some of, you know, some of whatever's happened before us.

[Andrea]

You know, I think if we're an adult child, there's just a high probability that our parents are as well, so that, you know, that should just be the default. What about Jackie? Do you have anything on that.

[Jackie]

That you wanted to share pretty much the same things. I mean, I remember a lot of fighting, a lot of yelling. Like, times we just sit at the top of the stairs and just, like, listen and, like, see what they were fighting about or whatever. My main thing with dad, too, is just money. There was one time, I remember we all split up. We were all at different houses. Mom somewhere at the bar, at a friend's house, whatever. And we were all staying somewhere else, and he turned off all of our phones so we couldn't contact each other. And we were all split up. And I remember just panicking, so I was like, I don't know where my mom is. I don't know where my sisters are. And so we just always blamed him for all of the bad. But, yeah, it was. It was both. They're both alcoholics, but in two totally different ways. So it's weird, too, being a child of alcoholics but having two different alcoholics be your parents. Strange.

[Andrea]

What about was alcohol. Was it ever discussed? Alcoholism, Alcohol? Like, was there. Was that ever a topic at all, that there was a problem with alcohol in the family?

[Mariah]

I remember when Mom's dad was passing away, and there was talk about his liver and about it not working anymore and how he couldn't get a transplant or something like that. And I was so little, I didn't really understand. And so, like, there was a lot of talk of how alcohol was killing people in our family, but it was not discussed to quit drinking or slow down or to fix anything. It was just this sad, somber, overhanging, this is terrible that this is happening, let's drink about it thing. And it just was weird. And, yeah, I don't. I guess I remember hearing, just in the last few years, my dad's sister, she's the only girl that grew up in. In that dysfunctional home, and hearing her talk about, you know, the drinking in their home growing up and how it was obviously, like, it brought all the problems, but, like, still, nobody's really talking about how maybe if we just don't drink, these problems won't exist. It's like, yeah, I don't know. This weird. This weird phenomenon is happening where alcohol is causing issues. Let's drink about it. We drink when we're sad. We drink to celebrate. We drink when we're bored. We drink because it's Wednesday. We drink all the time.

[Kayla Nays]

Yes, we do.

[Andrea]

And, Mariah, when you and I talked before, you were talking about the relationship with your grandparents and how, you know, one of the resiliency factors of you know, growing up in a dysfunctional family, one way to, I guess, dimmer the impact that it has is that if. Sorry, Kiki, can you go away? Is to. Is when you have other healthy adults, you know, in your life, whether that's other family members or a teacher or whatever, that can make a real difference in how much our upbringings impact us is if we do kind of have that one positive relationship. And it sounded like that's what y' all had with your grandparents.

[Mariah]

Yeah, they were great grandparents. Yeah. But they lived, like, literally down the road from our house. But they were, to me, from my perspective, they were like, my saving grace. Like, I was down here a lot. We would stay the night here a lot. We would get off the bus here a lot. We get picked up to go to school from here a lot. And, like, it was really nice knowing that we would have, like, a warm, beautiful meal and, like, there would be no yelling and we could play puzzles or whatever we wanted. And we would likely get a really awesome breakfast in the morning before we went on the bus. And, like, that was my perspective from Papa and Yana. But it was also, like, when we got older to even, like, driving age or whatever, from, like 10 till basically when I graduated, I had this. I'm not sure. I don't really remember having a specific moment where dad or mom was like, this is not to be discussed with Papa and Nana, but I just remember not feeling like I could tell them how severe everything was down at the home. So instead of literally driving down the road to come to Papa Nana's, when shit hit the fan at like, 1am we would drive past Papa and Nana's house with our headlights off so then we wouldn't wake them up and then go disperse to one of Mom's friends or something. And it was, like, super dysfunctional because obviously, like, this was a safe place to come. And now, knowing as an adult, we could have totally came here, and I just don't know what that was all about.

[Kayla Nays]

I totally have a. I have a totally different viewpoint of that, which is interesting. My grandparents were enablers to my parents, so I used to.

[Andrea]

Your grandparents or your great parents? My great grandparents.

[Kayla Nays]

Papa and Nana is what we called them. So they knew exactly what was going on. My parents were very shameful of what was going on and how much drinking and abuse was happening around us, and they hid it from them because they were a huge financial factor and took care of us when they were out drinking and doing their thing. So it's interesting, and I Know, going through therapy and working through some child trauma and everything. I know we're all going to have different perspectives, and I don't want to discredit my younger sisters at all, but I did bring up abuse in my household, and it was very nonchalant. Oh, it's not that bad. They're okay, you know, and then it was, like, just kind of seeing how much money they would have to. To borrow from them and. And all those different things. It was very toxic and enabling. And even though they did provide us that really nice, more healthy escape from the house that we lived in, it's still interesting going through all the different things I did, because I did think that, too. I mean, that was like, I had great grandparents and I. Whatever. And it's like. But they didn't really talk about it either, and they knew what was going on, so it's interesting.

[Andrea]

I think that goes with the times, though, and, like, you know, what things were like then. Same thing. I remember. I don't know, maybe when I was four or five years old, I guess my dad called my mom's parents to tell them that my mom had a drinking problem, and they just totally blew him off. I think part of it, too, is, like, if you acknowledge the problem, that, like, somehow that's like a reflection upon them in a way.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

My viewpoint is more like Kayla's, but it's still kind of different. Like, I never told. I remember bringing up, like, the dysfunction and the alcoholism to Nana, and I wasn't as close with my Nana as everybody else was. It's not like, a secret. I just wasn't. And I think it's because when I brought it up to her, she would tell me not to talk about it. She would be like, oh, like, just forget about it. And my papa would talk to me about it. We would sit downstairs, and I would vent to him, and we would do puzzles, and he would listen to me and, like, not speak. He would just wholeheartedly listen in his silent, strong, like, wise man vibes and would just let. And then he would just apologize and tell me he's sorry, like, what I was going through and it was going to be okay, and he just was that for me. So I kind of resented my Nana, I think, growing up a lot, and we just never were close because of that. So, yeah, we just never talked about it.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah. And I think looking back, she just wanted the perfect family. We were hard. Our family was very hard to love, and my dad's sister's family was very easy to Love. So that's. That's my perspective of everything. And I understand, you know, I understand why it's that way, but it sucked.

[Mariah]

Yeah, it was like a lot of, like, our. So our dad is the oldest sibling in there. So my dad and then his younger sister and then his younger brother was the one that was in and out of prison that we were talking about. And, yeah, it's like my dad stayed in this small town and continued the drinking and the abuse, and he literally repeated his father's life. And his younger sister married into money and, like, a good, like, I don't know, like, just different style of family. And yeah, they had three girls, too, so there was literally three of them and three of us. And we were like the dysfunctional, chaotic drinking at 14, kind of crazy, chaotic comb. And they did not have similar stories coming from that side of the family. And I think a lot of, like, bread. It bred shame for me to just be like, we're, you know, we're not that meaning that we were not good enough. We're not. Whatever, enough. Fill in the blank.

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[Andrea]

What about this? Dysfunctional family roles. And there's the hero, the scapegoat, the mascot, the lost child. Do you guys know those roles? I can pull up something that explains it because I'd be curious to see what role y' all feel like you've filled there.

[Kayla Nays]

I went through this with one of my therapists, and there's been different times. I played other roles.

[Andrea]

I mean, I switched to. I feel like I was the hero and then turned scapegoat. But obviously, Kayla. And that's the other thing I wanted to talk with you about is because I know Mariah, you talked about feeling guilty when you finally left the home because, you know, you were leaving Jackie. And I know when you went off to college, Kayla, you had been taking care of Mariah.

[Kayla Nays]

Oh, yeah, Both of them. I had to make sure that they weren't hearing or getting involved as much as possible. That was, like, my mission. So right when I would hear, like, crazy stuff going on downstairs, I'd be like, let's play this game. Let's do this. So it was a lot of that. But then in the back of my mind, you know, I'm like, yeah, let's distract them and get them playing. But then I'm also going to listen to what's going on downstairs because I'm concerned. So. Yeah.

[Mariah]

What about when you left and went to, like, hair school? Like, left the house?

[Kayla Nays]

Well, that was tricky because I was so excited to get the hell out of there. Like, I graduated in May, the end of May. I was like, May 22, and I was in Fargo. June. Like, I was like, I'm out of here. I'm signing up for the first cosmetology course there is. And I did. And then it was like a month later, I think Mariah went in for this major spinal cord surgery. So I felt very, like, this is very exciting for me, but I'm also forgotten about right now. So I had, like, a little bit of, like, jealousy kind of thing. Like, I'm. I'm freshly out of school. You know, mom was all concerned about me, but now she's not. And then they kind of had, like, this first family bonding experience in a long time, and I wasn't anywhere around. So that was the first time that I. I mean, I had drink and done drugs and tried all sorts of things through high school, but I had never binge drank for so many days and so often until I got into my first apartment and was going to beauty school. Like, that was the first time where I was, like, definitely in a pattern. I think it was, like, halfway through beauty school, Mariah, when I got that, my first minor. And you were there because, like, sleepover at my house. I'm going to invite all these people, and we're just going to. It was, like, a loud party violation and a minor, and people were, like, running out the windows and doors, I think. I don't know. It's crazy. So, like, yes, I think that. I think that I finally, like, really started to become what an adult child is when I got into college. And I think it was just like, all this stuff, like, the world's against me, like, the victim mentality that Mariah had mentioned. I was there, like, hardcore. Like, well, whatever. I'm just gonna play this role then, because this is who I am, I guess.

[Andrea]

What about for you, Mariah? Like, when she left? I mean, do you remember, like, dreading that, or was that, like, a significant time for you?

[Mariah]

I remember, like, getting excited to go up to Fargo and stay in your apartment with you. And I just remember for, like, ordering Herberts and Gerberts off of, like, a takeout menu. And I just thought it was the coolest thing that some guy was gonna bring sandwiches, too, right? Yeah, I was like, what? Some guy's gonna bring sandwiches here? And you had, like, this DVD player. You had this DVD player.

[Kayla Nays]

I had a DVD player and no Internet.

[Mariah]

And so we literally watched that with that.

[Kayla Nays]

With the Charlie Bartlett.

[Mariah]

Yeah, we watched Charlie Bartlett.

[Kayla Nays]

And I just remember being like, charlie Bartlett. Oh, my God. Watch it. It's awesome.

[Mariah]

I just remember being like, yeah, I'm cool. Like, my sister is out of the house, so I can go stay with her. But, like, yeah, then it turned into, like, I would party with you and your friends because you would throw parties, and I would, like, show up for the tequila shots and whatever, you know? So it was just kind of crazy right off the bat. And also, yeah, like, when I left to go to ndsu, like, when. When I left, I was the same thing. I was like, here it is. I was terrified out of my mind what it meant to leave home and just, like, for myself, but also, like, I was leaving Jacqueline home, and I didn't even. I was so torn. I was so confused. And I remember being afraid for Mom's life, and I remember being afraid for Jacqueline's life and also being frickin elated that I could be me. But also, as soon as I got to that dorm, I binge drank every day, like, all the time. It was constant because I could. And I think a lot of, like, the trauma of all of the mixed feelings that I was feeling was really easy to cover up with alcohol.

[Kayla Nays]

Oh, yeah. Then you didn't have to feel anything. It was awesome. Yeah.

[Andrea]

What was that like for you, Jackie, like, when you were the last man standing?

[Jackie]

Well, I still had, what, four. Four years of high school left, so I was an only child for a while. But when Mariah was leaving, I remember Kayla leaving and me being like, this is okay. Like, me and Mariah have an escape. You know, sometimes me and Mariah are still on this together. And then when Mariah left, I was horrified. Like, I didn't know what to do. I didn't know where I could go. I didn't know, like, anything that was safe. I was scared to leave the house because I was scared to leave my mom. So I was constantly, like, wanting to sneak out and not be at home, but then wanting to be home because I wanted to save Mom. So I just didn't know what to do either. So a lot of my relationships got really strained. I didn't really visit my grandparents much after that. I kind of bounced around. I didn't really live at home often. I would, like, go home to shower and grab a meal when my parents weren't home. But I stayed a lot of different places. I stayed in motels in Enderland, which is the town I went to high school in. I stayed with friends. I stayed at my dad's. Dad's house. I stayed at my piano teacher's house a few times. I just kind of stayed where I could, when I could, and it was just.

[Kayla Nays]

I don't know.

[Jackie]

I didn't really have a home. I felt like my whole high school.

[Andrea]

Did y' all know that?

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah, not to that extreme. Like, I knew. I knew she stayed at different places, but not, like, all over the place like that all the time. Like, piano teacher. I didn't know.

[Jackie]

There's so many, like, random houses. I'm like, I don't even know who lives there, but I crashed in their porch. Like, so many. There's so many places where I'd be, like, at the bar because my parents were drinking, and some rando would be like, well, do you want to come stay in my spare bedroom? And I would just some random way or some random people going back to a house, and I just crash on their couch or whatever and wake up and go to school.

[Andrea]

Wow.

[Jackie]

School was my safe place. So, yeah, I had good grades, went to school, but it was just everything else was chaos.

[Andrea]

Right. Were you kind of more scapegoaty?

[Mariah]

What do you mean? Like, the.

[Andrea]

Did any of y' all get into trouble, like, in high school? I did.

[Jackie]

I got a DUI when I was 14. I also like Kayla. We kind of, I feel like, got our rambunctious selves out a little bit in high school. Compared to Mariah. Mariah, I feel like, was more, like, academic and sportsy. I did a lot of experimentation in high school with alcohol, with drugs, with everything.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So I didn't. I dabbled. So when I left and actually was on my own, but a lot of it was in high school, I meant more.

[Andrea]

More. So did any of you become the identified patient and, like, identified as the problem?

[Jackie]

I don't think our parents really took enough time to focus on one of us enough to make us a scapegoat. Like, they were so involved with themselves that they just didn't have the time to point any fingers or any problems at us. It was just them, them, them.

[Andrea]

So I want to pull up.

[Kayla Nays]

Hold on.

[Andrea]

So let's look at the laundry list. And I'd like to know.

[Kayla Nays]

If you.

[Andrea]

Want to take a look and look at it, but I want to know which pick the top two that resonate with you the most. So I'm going to look at it. So, like, two that. That you strongly relate to and how, like, what that's looked like for you.

[Kayla Nays]

I feel like 8 and 9 are. Me personally, which is we become addicted to excitement and we confuse love and pity and tend to love people we can pity and rescue, for sure.

[Andrea]

And how has that showed up for you? Like, the addicted to excitement as an adult.

[Kayla Nays]

Again, more relationships, like, very. I needed very low lows at very high highs and thought that that was love. That was the only way that I could have love, as if that was happening. So when I met my now husband, I was like, oh, my God, he's so boring. It's annoying. I cannot be with him. Like, gross. I'm not going on another date. My therapist was like, did you maybe think, like, that could be healthy, that you don't fight and make up? Like, maybe you should just try it for a little while? And I was like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I get it. I understand. I. I think that if we.

[Andrea]

If we, like, are super into somebody, like, on the very first date, like, that means that we really just should be running for the hills. And so prior to meeting your husband.

[Kayla Nays]

I mean, what was the.

[Andrea]

What was the type of guy that you kept finding yourself? Was it, you know, addicts, alcoholics, like, abusive narcissists, all of it?

[Kayla Nays]

Oh, God. Narcissistic number one. And then it just came with alcohol and gaslighting and just crazy. And I married one of them. So this is marriage number two. I call that my practice marriage.

[Andrea]

How long did that last?

[Kayla Nays]

We were married on paper for two years, but I moved into great Grandma's house about a year and a half after we were married, and then we got our divorce soon after.

[Mariah]

I still call it your Kim K Wedding.

[Kayla Nays]

That works.

[Andrea]

How long had y' all been dating before you got married?

[Kayla Nays]

A long time. Like three years.

[Andrea]

Didn't you tell me, Mariah, didn't you go off on him or something?

[Mariah]

Yeah.

[Kayla Nays]

All God. Oh, God.

[Mariah]

Casually sips drink like, no comment. Yeah, yeah. I actually. I was at the height of. I was definitely drinking that night and was very angry. And when I walked into the house, Kayla and him lived together. And when I walked in, because she had called me and told me to come out there and help her, and when I walked in, he was standing over her and, like, I Just, I got the sense that she was, like, in this corner, the way that dad had put mom in a corner all the time. And I was like, I feel really sorry for what's about to happen to you, sir. And I don't know, it just. I saw red, and I don't really remember how it.

[Kayla Nays]

I remember you ripped our relationship counseling book in half that his pastor had given us. And, like, I still am just like, yes. That felt so good.

[Mariah]

I. I felt such. I felt such shame after that night, though. Like, it's still hard for me to talk about it, because I just remember, like, I saw red, you know? But then, like, I. I felt like it was my. I don't know. I had just recently lost my two best friends in high school. They were, like, attached to my hip, and I lost them both over my outburst of them allowing men to treat them certain ways. And I was like, why the would you allow that? Sorry, swearing is allowed, right?

[Andrea]

Have you ever listened to my fucking podcast?

[Mariah]

Yeah, I fucking know. And so I had, like. I had just lost my two best friends due to, like, my outbursts of how they allowed men to treat them. And then I just did that to my older sister, and I just remember feeling like, oh, my God, like, I am making a train wreck of everybody else's lives because of their decisions, and I can't allow them to live their own lives. And it was really, really not good for me. And I just remember being like, I'm my father's daughter. I hit people when I'm mad. And it just kind of. It was not good.

[Kayla Nays]

Well, I appreciated you guys picking me up. Just so you know, crisis averted for one night.

[Andrea]

Okay, Mariah, what. What are your two.

[Mariah]

No. Jesus. I. I identify with all of these. Literally, like, all of them. I just started smiling. I got to, like, number 10, and I was like, I think I have 10 fingers up. So I literally. I don't know how to pick two. I guess I'm still. I'm still two and three. I still become a. I'm an approval seeker. And sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something because I want someone to approve of what I'm doing. I did that a lot in even grade school and middle school, high school, college. I used to come home with, you know, if I could get an A plus on the top of my paper and show it to mom or Nana or someone, and they could say, good job. I felt like I was doing something right, or I could, like, be seen in that way. And still I, like, have to Check myself. Like, am I doing this because I want to or because I think that people will like me for doing this thing? And then just today, I had a conversation with my. He's my business partner, but I kind of work for him right now. And I work with placing the homeless into, you know, homes and better situations than they're in. And I had a conversation with him about how I'm not seeing anybody that is not coming into the office. Like, I won't meet them anywhere besides in the safety of the office because a lot of them are drunk or using drugs. And I feel so frozen. And I just told him straight up. I was like, if I end up punching someone, I just don't want to put you in legal trouble. So I want them to only meet me in the office. Like, I just. I am frightened by angry people. If someone is angry and yelling, and I immediately am quiet in the corner, and I just want to escape and, like, become the wallpaper.

[Andrea]

What about you, Jackie?

[Jackie]

My two were two that they said, so.

[Andrea]

That's funny.

[Jackie]

My first one was three. Not really.

[Andrea]

Let me say what it is for.

[Kayla Nays]

People so people know.

[Andrea]

Number three is we are frightened by angry people and any personal criticism.

[Mariah]

Yep.

[Jackie]

So mainly, I guess, personal criticism I'm pretty good with, unless it's like, someone's being mean. I mean, like, any, like, normal criticism or whatever. I'm good with angry people, too. I do the same thing with Mariah, where, like, if you hear someone yelling or there's, like, an argument going on, like a toxic one, all of the hair will kind of stand up just on my body. And instead of backing into a corner, though, and being scared, I get angry. Also, I'm very quick to be aggressive and defensive compared to shrinking away. And then the other one was nine. We confuse love and pity and tend to love people we pity and rescue. Pretty much every single substantial relationship I've had has been either an alcoholic, somebody that's addicted to drugs, or somebody that's severely narcissistic. And after every time we break up or ever have these breakups, I'm always like, man, those sad souls. Like, how did I ever let myself fall for somebody that really needs that much help? But it's just. It's me.

[Mariah]

Yeah.

[Andrea]

I'm assuming that most of y' all can relate to that or just the. The inability to pull yourself out of, you know, toxic, unhealthy romantic relationships.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah, just a little bit.

[Andrea]

Just a tiny bit.

[Mariah]

I can't sometimes even, like, when I start to like somebody, I'm like, if I like them, that means that they're not a good person. Like, I. It's. I, like, don't trust myself to like people anymore. Like, right now, I just went on a date with, like, I've seen. I've been seeing this guy, like, four times right now, and I'm just like, what am I overseeing? Like, you know, I'm like, I just need more therapy before any relationship works. But I'm like, damn it. Like, I'm two years clean. Like, I'm pretty sure it could be okay for me to attempt, but I'm like, I'm, like, just nervous. You know what my motives are?

[Kayla Nays]

I had some cute. I had some cute boyfriends. Like, don't you guys remember? Like. Like, the ones that are now gay or, like, you know, like. But. But the common denominator. Andrea, is always emotionally not available.

[Andrea]

No. So what is. What is. What does family look like today? You know, what's. What's yalls relationship like with your parents? Do they. Do they know that y', all, like, have been in therapy and, like, I mean, like, what is their knowledge and awareness of, I guess maybe your struggles or how your childhood impacted you? Like, have you ever had a conversation with either one of them about this stuff? You're muted. You're muted. Kayla.

[Kayla Nays]

Hi.

[Andrea]

Hi there.

[Kayla Nays]

I think off and on, I've tried to talk with them, but it's almost like they're embarrassed. Like, I feel. Dad, I. It's kind of interesting. Like, I'm embarrassed.

[Andrea]

They're alcoholics and they're in denial. You know what I mean? Like, they just aren't capable of going there, unfortunately.

[Kayla Nays]

Right. And that's what it is. It's just a shutdown. And my mom's been through a lot. I mean, she just. She's now in remission as of November from lung cancer. We thought we were going to lose her. She was stage 3C. I mean, basically done. So it's crazy to think that navigated all that. Now she's out on the other end. Um, that was really hard for our family. But then I don't desire a further relationship with my dad, so that's kind of like a. And I'm okay with that. I love both of my parents now, which I went through, like, a big thing. I just hated them and resented them for everything because it was their fault, because of how I was, you know, whatever. But now, like, Mariah. I mean, what was it, 2016, when I. When I got divorced and I started working with my own personal development coach and Opened up a business and now have employees. One of them just put in her two weeks yesterday. Just big things that I have to deal with, you know, big abandonment issues, big codependency issues. All these different things. It's. They are where they are, and I love them where they're at. And I like to share, you know, my failures and my successes and things like that, but I don't try to push anything on them anymore. I mean, I feel like I used to do that a lot. Like, here, take a sip of the Kool Aid. You guys need it more than any of us. But they're just where they are, and I just love them the way they are. And I think that's kind of the viewpoint I have with everyone in my life now. It's like I'm doing me for me, and hopefully just me modeling and kind of doing the best that I can for myself. That's what I can do. So, yeah.

[Andrea]

When you say you don't desire to have a relationship with your dad, I mean, does that mean you don't want to talk to him or see him ever, or you just don't want him? You don't want to be close to him?

[Kayla Nays]

I don't want to be close to him. I think that where we are now is fine. You know, when I go back home and I see him occasionally, that's fine. But it's not, you know, I'm wondering what he's doing or anything like that. It's just kind of. And I mean, it's something that I'm working with, with my relationship therapists, too, of making sure that I. Because for a while I was like, well, I need to. I need to have a relationship with my dad. Because I was told that, like, there's something wrong with you if you think that you don't need a relationship with your dad. And as I'm getting older and kind of just growing as a person, I'm like, I don't need to have a relationship with anyone. So that's just kind of where I'm at with it. And it's not. It's not out of anger anymore. It's not out of resentment. It's just a choice that I made for myself. Yeah.

[Andrea]

What's best for you?

[Kayla Nays]

Yep.

[Andrea]

What about the rest of you?

[Jackie]

I kind of feel the same way. I like that she said, like, we love them where they're at, and that's just kind of how it is.

[Kayla Nays]

It just.

[Jackie]

Kind of growing up, too. My mom has been just, like, more of a best friend Than really, like, a nurturing mother. So I have a really good relationship with my mom. I call her, like, every other day. We text or whatever. My dad more. So it's kind of the same. I feel like I'm probably closer to my dad than the other two, but also, I don't really care to be close to him. It's just kind of one of those things where I see him and I'm just like, nice to see you, and then just go about your own day. I don't think about him either, or text him or call him or anything. My mom is just like, he exists out there in the universe, and that's fine with me.

[Andrea]

And then, Mariah, you're living across the street for them, right?

[Mariah]

I live with them.

[Andrea]

Oh. It's best for last.

[Mariah]

Yeah.

[Andrea]

Going on. What's going on? The home. Can we get it?

[Kayla Nays]

We needed an update.

[Mariah]

Well, both Kayla and Jacqueline, they're, like, comfortable and choosing to build a life in Fargo and in North Dakota. And I've been always the one that's like, I can't wait to get out of here. So when my lease was up a few months ago, I just sold everything that I owned and moved out to the farm. And this is actually the house that I'm in right now is my papa and nana's home. This was, like, our safe haven that we came to. You know, this is, like, where I feel most comfortable on the entire globe. And when my nana passed away last November, my parents bought the house. So it was very strange. Like, they. It's very weird being here. And then it's me and my two parents who I have not lived with in over a decade. It's been really, really beautiful. Getting closer with mom since she's in remission from her lung cancer and even just, like, everything that I've went through in recovery and all the therapy and stuff that I've been doing, it's been really spiritually insane in sometimes the coolest ways and sometimes most frustrating ways being here. But I feel like I need this closure out here. You know, I'm, like, planting in papa and Nana's garden and, like, cooking in Nana's kitchen. And I'm doing all the things to, like, spiritually connect with my great grandparents the way that I need to right now before I leave. And tonight was one of those nights where I came home from Fargo, and they're both very, very drunk, and dad was drooling, sitting up, sleeping. So it's very dumb, for lack of a better term. I don't really know what else to say except for that they're nearing 60 and this is still going on. But, you know, I need to recognize my triggers when that happens and understand how full of disgust I feel. And not that I want to join them by any means in the drinking when I see that now and he's not abusive in yelling and throwing things anymore, which is really freaking cool.

[Jackie]

That's cool.

[Andrea]

Wow.

[Kayla Nays]

Lucky.

[Mariah]

Really? I mean, I feel lucky. And yeah, it's just been. It's been really different. And I'm going to stay here through the winter, but I can't wait to see you where the hell I go next.

[Andrea]

Me too. There's no fucking way I could live with my parents.

[Mariah]

Would be. Trust me. I don't know why I'm doing it. Some days I'm like, I'm driving home the 45 minute drive and I'm like, why did I do this?

[Kayla Nays]

Every time you come in and get your nails done, I'm like, you're such a warrior.

[Mariah]

Yeah. And then I question myself too. I'm like, am I like this like attachment style, codependent weirdo where I'm like clinging to mom for some reason or like, what's going on here? Like, I question myself?

[Kayla Nays]

I just think you have your eye on the prize. You just have your eye on the prize. Like you're ready. You're. When you get your stuff paid off and you're ready to go, like you're gonna be ready to go.

[Mariah]

I don't have any furniture that does.

[Andrea]

Help, like, to really have a.

[Kayla Nays]

Like a.

[Andrea]

There's a pretty. A deep purpose behind it that makes it a. You know.

[Mariah]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not paying rent right now. Yeah, I'm not paying rent. I sold all my big stuff. I can literally get in my car with my kitten and throw a dart at a map and see where I'm going, so.

[Andrea]

All right, well, any final thoughts? Anything you gotta get off your chest?

[Kayla Nays]

This has been oddly healing. That's all I have to say. I don't know what it is. Like, I think I can skip a meditation to dinner.

[Mariah]

I was gonna. One thing that I forgot to mention, for some reason, I just thought it would come up in conversation. The year that papa passed away. Remember that fun year where every single one of us in our family got a DUI within a.

[Kayla Nays]

Every single one. Like that should be like in a Guinness Book of world record somewhere.

[Mariah]

Yeah. Every single one of us.

[Kayla Nays]

The three of you.

[Mariah]

No.

[Andrea]

Oh, wow. Oh, really?

[Mariah]

2015, 2016.

[Kayla Nays]

I led the pack. So it was 2014, right after I got married, and I realized, I think, what I had done walking down the aisle with this individual. So I ended up drinking a lot. A lot, a lot, a lot. Mariah was in the car with me that time, too, and the judge really loved that. So, yeah, I was arrested that night. It was the day before Thanksgiving. Remember that?

[Andrea]

That's so impressive, guys.

[Kayla Nays]

Yeah. All five of you.

[Mariah]

Mine was. Mine involved punching a cop. And it was three days before I was in one of my best friend's weddings. So I got out in time for the groom's dinner to have a few beers. Yeah, that was fun.

[Andrea]

And what about you, Jackie?

[Jackie]

I totaled my Jeep on the interstate.

[Andrea]

Oh, were you drunk?

[Jackie]

I absolutely was drunk. I had also.

[Kayla Nays]

And underage.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that was in the midst of my hard drug addiction, too. So I had been up for a couple days, went to a house party, drank a full bottle of Jack Daniels.

[Andrea]

Smoked a lot with a bunch of.

[Jackie]

People, don't remember anything. And I woke up on the side of the road. Some lady was really trying to get me out of my car. So I got on the side of the road and waited for the cops. And they honestly were very, very, very nice to me. They let me off very, very easy. I wasn't. I was on unsupervised probation for six months. They pretty much just told me I was lucky to be alive and to get help and sent me home.

[Kayla Nays]

So.

[Mariah]

But I mean, around here in small town, rural North Dakota, people literally joke about it. Like, it. When we got DUIs, you know, people would just like, nudge you with their elbow and be like, oh, you're in the club now. Or, oh, it's your rite of passage. Like, it was it, you know. And I do not mean to make light of it because I'm sure for any of your other listeners, it's probably like. I mean, probably not adult children listening in. It's, you know, it can be normal, but like, it was literally so normal to get a dui. It was like, oh, but happened to me too. Like, it was just, oh, yeah.

[Jackie]

When I got my DUI, everybody was like, oh, well, you're lucky you're under 21.

[Kayla Nays]

Like, they'll let you off really easy.

[Jackie]

A good way to get it out of your system. And I mean, they did let me off easy, but my insurance fucking sucks now because I was under the drinking age, so they really hit me hard with that one.

[Kayla Nays]

I'm still paying for that. I think I have, like, one more year left or some shit. Like that on my insurance. I don't remember.

[Andrea]

Well, you guys are probably trapped a little bit like in the, I don't know, like the 60s or the 70s. I feel like that's probably the way that it used to be where basically, you know, they'd just be like, okay, we'll drive home safely. And I want to say I'm gonna, I'm gonna rank the north, the North Dakota accent. So Kayla's got the best, don't you know, strongest, then Jackie and then Mariah. That's the ranking.

[Mariah]

I have tried so hard. No, I taught at college and I was saying long O's and I would get made fun of so bad. So I feel like I've really worked on it. Unless I'm saying something like, oh, it's cold outside, we gotta go get our coats. Like then it comes out.

[Andrea]

Yeah, yeah, it's very faint with you. And then with Kayla, it's. I think they probably spent the most time.

[Kayla Nays]

There it is. Well, thank you, ladies. Thank you.

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