Advice Line: How to Build a Clear Marketing Roadmap (Stephen Mulholland)

Summary

Advisor Marketing Made Simple: Episode Summary Title: Advice Line: How to Build a Clear Marketing Roadmap (Stephen Mulholland)
Release Date: July 2, 2025
Hosts: Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright
Guest: Stephen Mulholland, Mulholland and Cooper Stock Asset Management

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of "Advisor Marketing Made Simple," hosts Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright welcome Stephen Mulholland from Mulholland and Cooper Stock Asset Management. Stephen's firm, a two-person team, has achieved impressive growth with $500,000 in revenue and $50 million in Assets Under Management (AUM). Ambitiously, they aim to expand to $200 million in AUM in the coming years. Stephen seeks expert guidance on refining his marketing strategy to attract more doctor groups, a key source of client referrals.

Identifying the Marketing Challenge

Stephen opens up about his longstanding marketing dilemma:

“I have a great doctors group. They help people for a living. How do I find more doctor groups?”
[00:33]

He elaborates on his successful collaboration with a multi-specialty doctor group, highlighting the potential in targeting larger groups for efficiency:

“Any group that's four doctors or more is just the most efficient. Helping one cardiologist helps you help five.”
[01:48]

Current Marketing Efforts and Limitations

Stephen shares that his current client acquisition is largely based on personal favors and word-of-mouth referrals rather than structured marketing:

“We really haven't done much. We've grown from zero to 50 million in AUM just by partner and I, two people.”
[05:04]

He acknowledges the lack of a formal sales and marketing plan but expresses motivation inspired by the hosts:

“If you don’t market, you take whatever clients show up at your door. But when you market, you can choose who your clients are.”
[05:53]

Leveraging Strengths: Public Speaking

Stephen identifies public speaking as his forte, having successfully presented to groups of doctors and simplifying complex financial topics:

“I like public speaking. I haven't done much on video, which I'm open to doing more of.”
[04:50]

The hosts encourage building a marketing strategy around his strength in speaking, emphasizing the importance of choosing a medium that feels natural.

The Importance of Niching Down

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the need for Stephen to narrow his focus to achieve predictable and sustainable growth. Taylor highlights the complexity of servicing diverse client groups and the benefits of specializing:

“If you try a scattered approach, it's not going to grow as quickly as you might want.”
[12:43]

Kendra stresses the importance of defining a clear target audience to streamline marketing efforts and operational efficiency:

“You might need to create your own separate marketing channel and your own separate website so that everything speaks exactly to that target client of yours.”
[22:45]

Strategizing Client Acquisition

Stephen contemplates focusing on individual doctors rather than groups, recognizing the operational challenges of handling multiple client types:

“Individual doctors, great. I would much rather spend my time doing like speaking engagements, education, and then on the investment side.”
[14:32]

Taylor advises on identifying specific niches within the individual doctor segment, such as doctors nearing retirement with tax issues or those seeking early retirement:

“Are they early retirees? Are they traditional retirees? The challenges are very different.”
[16:02]

Actionable Steps and Recommendations

Kendra and Taylor provide Stephen with a roadmap to solidify his marketing foundation before building a funnel:

1. Define the Ideal Client: Decide whether to focus on individual doctors or doctor groups.
2. Research and Commit: Spend time understanding where to find and how to reach the chosen niche, such as attending specific conferences or engaging in targeted speaking opportunities.
3. Adjust the Website: Tailor the website to reflect the focused niche, possibly by creating separate sections or even distinct websites for different client types.
4. Build Trust and Authority: Continue leveraging public speaking and consider expanding into other mediums like video to enhance credibility.

Stephen takes note of the actionable advice, acknowledging the necessity of a focused approach:

“To your point, Kendra, we've done a good job growing without having a sales and marketing plan, but really solidifying that foundation.”
[31:22]

Conclusion and Next Steps

The episode wraps with the hosts encouraging Stephen to lay a strong foundational strategy by clearly defining his target audience. They emphasize that this clarity will significantly enhance the effectiveness of his marketing funnel. Kendra also suggests an additional resource:

“Check out our episode with Neil Chaco about getting in front of your ideal client using speaking.”
[32:14]

Stephen leaves the conversation motivated to implement the strategic recommendations, focusing his efforts on individual doctors and refining his marketing approach to support sustainable growth.

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Key Takeaways:

• Importance of Niching Down: Focusing on a specific client type enhances marketing efficiency and operational effectiveness.
• Leverage Strengths: Utilize natural talents, such as public speaking, to build trust and authority within the target niche.
• Foundation Before Funnel: Solidify a clear marketing foundation by defining and understanding the ideal client before developing a marketing funnel.
• Continuous Learning: Engage with resources and podcasts to stay informed and inspired to implement effective marketing strategies.

Notable Quotes:

• “If you don’t market, you take whatever clients show up at your door. But when you market, you can choose who your clients are.”

Steven, [05:53]

• “It might be helpful for you to start with your website because there's a lot of different things here on your website that don't quite fit together.”

Taylor, [17:45]

• “It can sometimes be good to fall on what's safe and cash balance plays always catch people's attention. But is that where I'm adding the most value?”

Steven, [31:22]

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For more insights and strategies on advisor marketing, subscribe to "Advisor Marketing Made Simple" and join Taylor and Kendra each Wednesday for actionable advice to grow your financial services business.

Transcript

[Kendra]

Hey, it's Kendra and Taylor and we're here to make Advisor Marketing simple. Today's guest is Steven from Mulholland and Cooper Stock asset management. His two person team has been helping clients for six years. Their current revenue is $500,000 with 50 million in AUM and they want to grow to 200 million in AUM in the next few years. Welcome to Advisor Marketing Made Simple. Stephen, what's that big marketing question you want us to help you answer today?

[Steven]

Uh, hey guys. Pleasure to be on the show. Thanks for having me. A big question that I've been thinking about for years and haven't answered, so I'm, I'm really happy to be with two marketing experts is I have a wonderful doctor group that's growing. They're, they're not based near me. We can get into the show of how I source them in the first place, which may be elucidating. But I have a great doctors group. They help people for a living. That's why I got in the business to help people for a living. I manage their retirement plans. It's a great source of individual client referrals. How do I find more doctor groups?

[Kendra]

So tell me a little bit more about these doctor groups. Is it a specific type of doctor? Is there any additional details there? Like give me more details on that.

[Steven]

Yeah. And it might be a little bit of a unique situation this doctor groups in a state that has a bit different healthcare regulation. So I guess this is a great first doctor group to work with because I can talk to ophthalmologists, dermatologists, cardiologists, all from this one group. So multi specialty is sort of the, the grand slam. But I'm pretty comfortable now and experienced talking to any specialty. So any group that's four doctors or more is just the most efficient. You know, I've found helping one cardiologist helps you help, you know, five.

[Kendra]

So let's talk a little bit about these different kinds of doctors. You have a lot of different doctors that could be a good fit for your work. Is there any specialty or structure within these doctors that is easier or more exciting for you to work with?

[Steven]

No, I'd say it's the common problem they all have, which is they all tend to be really well compensated because they went to school forever and they have a lot of medical debt and they add a lot of value. So the retirement plans are kind of oasis in the desert for how to reduce their taxes through special kinds of retirement plans that are a bit cumbersome to administer but I've become a bit of an expert on. So I've noticed they all have that common problem.

[Kendra]

Okay, and with the current clients you have, how are those clients finding you?

[Steven]

Great question. This doctor group found me because I did a favor for someone and they appreciated it so much that that snowballed. And that's something I don't know how to replicate. Marketing wise, it was really establishing three things. Trust, never saying I don't know the answer to that, always being able to chase down and do the work to find an answer to something, and then my investment background. But really it starts with building the trust. And I don't know how in marketing you can run an ad right, and say, hey, I'm a trustworthy guy, but who the heck's gonna believe that? I've heard you guys talk on previous podcasts about testimonials and I'd maybe love to hear some more guidelines around that. That's not something we've done before, but really doing someone a favor with nothing expected in return, earning the trust, demonstrating the expertise led to this relationship.

[Kendra]

This person that you connected with, were they another doctor or someone who had access to doctors?

[Steven]

Yeah, it was literally just a friend of a doctor.

[Kendra]

Okay. I would kind of see that as like a cli. Like essentially. And as far as trust, you know, typically trust is built in the middle of the funnel. So that's why trust takes time. And there's a lot of different ways to build that. Let's talk a little bit about how you like to educate people you're excited to serve. There's a lot of ways to reach high paid doctors who are very concerned with taxes, live in high cost of living cities, and are playing catch up in their retirement. What medium do you prefer to educate people? Do you like to speak? Do you like video? Do you like writing? Like, what really feels natural to you?

[Steven]

I'm probably most comfortable in front of a room of 150 people. And that's a little bit odd because I think moving funerals and public speaking tend to be three things that scare people. So I've flown out to New Mexico quite a bit to present to groups of doctors. And doctors are obviously very smart, short on time. So I think I've got some skills around taking sort of boring, esoteric or complex topics and making them simple and entertaining. So I like public speaking. I haven't done much on video, which I'm open to doing more of. Again, I've heard you guys talk about that on podcast, but yeah, my mom's a Retired college professor who lives in a little bungalow in Laguna Beach. And maybe it's in the genetics, but sort of that teaching role I really like.

[Kendra]

And right now, when you think about the different marketing activities that you're doing to bring awareness to your firm, what does that look like across the board, either consistently or haphazardly? Like, what are you. What are you doing to bring awareness to the firm?

[Steven]

Right now, it's all hand to hand. It's all in person. We tried throwing some blog posts I know Taylin mentioned in your last podcast or a recent podcast. Did it take six months to kind of see SEO results? You know, we've kind of dabbled in marketing, but we really haven't done much. And, you know, thankfully we've grown from zero to 50 million in assets under management just by partner and I, two people. But I'm sure you hear it a lot in person on your podcast. We've really grown up to like our maximum capacity. I will say something. Kendra, you said you wrote something, I think on Twitter once that said, if you don't market, you take whatever clients you know show up at your door. But when you market, you can choose who your clients are. That really was motivating and inspiring for me. So let me say I have a blank sheet of paper called sales and marketing plan for the next three years, and I'm going to start it after this podcast.

[Kendra]

I love that. Let's talk a little bit about the presentations you're doing because I've seen a little bit of your work. You seem very gifted and natural at speaking. We can build a really strong marketing strategy around that medium. Typically, if you listen to the show, I don't know if advisors listening see this, but we're actually choosing your kind of medium of education and then we're using your channel. And the reason why that's really important is because if you like to write, we're going to take your strategy a completely different direction. So when you choose a medium that you feel is excited about and it could be challenging, but you're excited for tackling it and working in that medium, it's going to narrow your focus on your channels and your funnel, which is really nice because we can cut your marketing to do list almost immediately in a in down to a third of what it was before. So what really jumped out to me, I want to know a little bit more about the presentations that you're doing and I want to know two things. One, how did you get it and when you did the presentation, what was the Next step, did you have a call to action? Like, how did that go? Tell me a little bit about that.

[Steven]

Okay, so great questions. And just to clarify, when you say how did you get it, could you clarify that question?

[Kendra]

Yeah. Did you pitch a university? Did you rent a local room at a library? Did you network with other speakers? Did you tag along with another event that was two doctors and you got on as a panel for that, you know, event, like how did you get the opportunity to speak to these Dockers?

[Steven]

A friend called me and said that he had a friend that was in a legal lawsuit that was no fault of theirs, they were the injured party and they were going to be getting a payout. So my friend called me up, he's a CFA charter holder as I am, and he said, this doesn't sound right. Will you talk to the, talk to her and the lawyer? I said, sure thing. This annuity salesman was trying to steamroll this poor woman. And I said, hey, I just want to verify this woman doesn't need an annuity. Right? She could do whatever she wants with the proceeds. He backed down. He said, absolutely. I got her a check. I set her up with a very low cost ETF version to a portfolio to invest her proceeds. My friend called me back, the woman was practically in tears, like, thank you for getting me out of this difficult situation. So he said, hey, you accomplished what I asked you to do. And then he said, I want to introduce you to a friend of mine who's a doctor. Next thing you know, the guy has a group of 40 doctors and WHO am I presenting to? Every time they try to onboard a new group to join his multi specialty practice, not only am I educating about the incredible benefits he's set up for his doctor group, it's also a bit of a recruitment tool for him.

[Kendra]

Okay, so what I'm hearing is you really enjoy speaking and you really love building relationships and through those you've been to find, you've been able to find a couple opportunities that has put you in front of doctors. Now let's talk just really quickly about your marketing budget. Do you have a marketing budget? You know, if things were to work really well for you over the next, you know, 12 months or so, like, what would you be comfortable spending? Let's just say per month. Give me like a, a ballpark number.

[Steven]

We have a marketing budget. We've never allocated anything to marketing. Whatever that number is, as long as it's producing results we can handle.

[Kendra]

Okay, Taylor, what's coming up for you?

[Taylor]

I want to go back to these, these doctors groups, you currently have about $50 million of assets under management. How much of that is part of a doctor's group retirement plan? Cash balance plan, 401k plan. How much of that is assets under management and those retirement plans?

[Steven]

My book of business is, is two sources. It's tech employees. Right? So tech employees and then the doctors groups. Let's say it's 50.

[Taylor]

50.

[Steven]

I'm responsible for 25 million. Let's, let's say 12 and a half million is on the Dr. Side and 12 and a half million is tech employees.

[Taylor]

Okay. And on the doctor side, that 12 and a half million, is that in retirement plans or are those individual doctors working with you?

[Steven]

I 75% are individual doctors working with us.

[Taylor]

Okay. So as of today, these cash balance plans are not a major part of your business. Is that accurate?

[Steven]

They're not a major profit center. Absolutely.

[Taylor]

Okay. Because I just, I see cash balance plans sprinkled about your website and I'm just curious, like how interested are you in setting up more cash balance plans for doctors groups as part of your marketing strategy?

[Steven]

I would love to do it for two reasons. Right. So one, after about 10 years, the cash balance plan gets rolled over into an ira, which, you know, so it's a great lead gen tool that way. And then two, as Kendra was saying, it's a great trust builder. Right. So we have a doctor that is older and trying to make a distribution from their 401k. So he emails the TPA to that he's trying to make a distribution. It doesn't get sent over to the record keeper. And then, you know, this doctor who's trying to service patients is frustrated. So my bias is like, well just he's like, how can I fix this? I said just let me know next time. Right. And I know who to call. So like we, we quarterback, we make it really easy for the bus, these busy doctors. So the cash balance plan today, Taylor, great questions. Like if you were to aggregate the 401k and the cash balance plan, it's going to go from like a below 10 digit number to quadruple and then those assets are regular contributions per year. Right. So I'd say what we like about it, what's exciting about it is it accomplishes what Kendra said, which it gives us that sort of trust building expertise demonstration process on something that's kind of neutral ground.

[Taylor]

No, it's a great value proposition, but.

[Steven]

It'S a small piece today. To your question, right.

[Taylor]

When, when they start out, it can be a Small piece.

[Steven]

So.

[Taylor]

Yeah. So how lucrative is that initial cash balance plan? Are you, are you earning revenue, meaningful revenue? Not.

[Steven]

Not really. And to your point, the servicing the individual accounts from doctors that come from the group, the vast majority of revenues are coming from previous IRA rollovers from previous cash balance plans from the doctors.

[Taylor]

Okay. How interested are you in retirement plans for these doctors groups? 401k plans?

[Steven]

Yeah, I like them because that's my institutional background. I like them. They're not super profitable in of themselves.

[Taylor]

Well, that's what I'm asking because like they, that world is an entirely different animal and beast. And the way to monetize that world is very different than working with individuals. I've been in the business almost 20 years and I've, I've tried everything. I've worked with doctors groups. We've done cash balance plans, we've done pension plans, 401k plans. So I've seen it all and I, I know that it'd be really hard for me to build a business with a bunch of individual doctors, some tech employees, some hiring professionals, and also be servicing and marketing to these doctors groups for cash balance plans and 401ks. So to me there is kind of this fork in the road if we really want to have predictable sustainable growth over the next five years. So you know, if you had to choose that fork in the road, I want to focus on individuals versus I want to go after more doctors groups and help them put together cash balance plans. 401ks. Of course down the road in the future I might get some individual doctors as a result. And we've had some of those and they're absolutely amazing clients to zero in on that.

[Steven]

That's the bullseye is just the most profitable and lucrative for the firm.

[Taylor]

Where do you want to focus your, your marketing efforts? Is it more cash Balance plans, more 401k plans for doctors groups, or is it. I want to find more individuals.

[Steven]

So I'm talking to a marketing expert. Let me ask you a question. And you've been through this and you're. But you're unique because you're marketing, but you're also an advisor. What would you pick? What would you advise me to pick?

[Taylor]

It doesn't really matter. Like all these things work. Um, so it's really a matter of what your, where your passion is and what you really want to double down on and really spend time on. Because if you try this scattered approach, it's just not going to, not going to grow as quickly as you might want to grow and it's just going to continue to feel scattered. So again, I've, I've done both, I've seen both. And it's not of interest to us to continue doing more retirement plans, cash balance plans. It doesn't mean it's not, couldn't be lucrative. By the way, you know, one of the, our approaches to working with doctors groups was just a pure consulting agreement because there isn't a lot of money sometimes in the asset management. We would charge flat annual fees for consulting agreements and it was great. And then we also got some individual, you know, clients as a result from that. So again, like, it doesn't really matter. You can go either way. But in order for us to provide some direction to you here, we kind of have to know, like, are we going after more doctors groups, 401k plans, cash balance plans, because there's a strategy to that or are we. No, let's set that aside. I just want to focus on finding more individuals.

[Steven]

That's a great point. Let's say we went down the way of the consulting agreement. I do like the idea of being on their side and someone who could guide them, but that could be accomplished through a consulting agreement and it is a ton of work.

[Kendra]

So I think what we need to do here is we need to make a really important decision so that we can build a great focused marketing funnel and how we target these people is going to be very different. So yeah, if you had to choose one or the other doctors groups or individual doctors, which one would work best?

[Steven]

Individual doctors, great. I would much rather spend my time doing like speaking engagements, education, and then on the investment side. So to your point, like, and there's only so much time in the day, so whether that's a consulting agreement or someone added to the team that would, that would just free me up to do those other things more.

[Taylor]

Okay, so then we have to start to think these individual doctors again. I know because we've worked with them. It is, it can be a challenging niche. Right. They can be fee sensitive, oftentimes very smart, large group of DIYers. So now we have to think about where do these individual doctors live. And we obviously can't work with every single doctor, so we might have to zone in on a few different specialties that we truly understand and start to identify. You know, where are these people consuming information? Since you like to speak and get out there in public and you're a great speaker, you know, one potential opportunity would be speaking engagements. But in those situations, we're not going to be Talking about the benefits of cash balance plans. Right? Like now you might be working with individual doctor who's part of a doctor's group, and you might say, hey, look, you're part of this doctor's group. Doesn't look like you have a cash balance plan. Like, it might be something for you guys to consider. Here's an actuary for you guys to talk to. You know, I can, you know, provide some advice along the way. We had that exact situation happen. We didn't do any heavy lifting in regards to the cash balance plan. But that cash balance plan is very much a part of that individual doctor's retirement plan. He's making those contributions.

[Steven]

That makes a lot of sense.

[Taylor]

So this is just where, like, if we're going to focus on individual doctors, we have to start to think, how are we going to reach these individual doctors? You know, kind of at scale. It could be through a podcast, it could be through writing, it could be through email marketing, it could be through writing a book. But it sounds like public speaking might be the path for you.

[Steven]

Well, and Taylor, I will say, before the podcast, I probably would have said more retirement plans, but based on the podcast this far, you guys have personally convinced me that that was the wrong choice. So I think you've won me around to everything you just outlined just now. Makes a heck of a lot, a heck of a lot of sense. As long as the doctor's aware of it. I think that's my highest value add. As long as they know it's a, it's a tool on the Swiss army knife.

[Taylor]

That's my highest value add for them. Okay. I think to help you get narrow and clear, I don't, I don't usually recommend this, but it's just sometimes hard to take all these ideas and different paths. You can go down and really, really drill it, drill it down and just get really clear. It might be helpful for you to start with your website because there's a lot of different things here on your website that don't quite fit together. So, for example, if we are going to start to focus purely on individual doctors, we might start to set some of these cash balance plan things aside. Like in your menu, it literally says cash balance plans. So again, if we're working with individuals, we might bring up cash balance plans if we know there's a potential opportunity, but we don't really want to attract people looking to start cash balance plans if we're going to go after individual doctors. So right here on the homepage it says smart financial and Investment plans built just for you. Like, who is. Who is you? Right. And so are you able to start to get more clear front and center here on your website? Or is that going to be challenging with your partner in the practice because he focuses on some different clients?

[Steven]

Yeah, so we're. We're a third doctor, is a third tech employees and a third your classic retirees. And I know niching is very vogue and it's very much talked about on the podcast. If that's a third, third and a third, and they're all great clients. How. How do we handle that on the website? Do we. Is it okay to have a dropdown and like for you and have three.

[Taylor]

Categories or potentially those three demographics? Are they similar age range? Are they close to retirement? Are you helping them transition into retirement, or are they all different ages?

[Steven]

Yeah, all three of those cohorts are different ages.

[Taylor]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, it does start to get really challenging once you start moving past different age groups. Because what I was going to say, after all, let's. Let's say we help those three types of people transition into retirement or they're five years away from retirement, then it becomes much easier to say, like, you know, we help people, you know, transition into retirement. And then you might have three different case studies that document those three kind of avatars. But if they're literally in three different stages of life, that just becomes really challenging, not just from a marketing perspective, but also just operationally for you guys as you start taking on more and more clients. Got some cash balance plans over here. We have some individual doctors nearing retirement. We've got some young tech professionals over here. Like, it's going to become really challenging operationally to service those clients, to market to those people, and also to communicate. I've shared the story too many times now, but when we were working with multiple demographics like that, I'd sent out an email to our email newsletter list about the importance of disability insurance. And my retired client replied and said, why did I get this email? I'm retired. I don't need disability insurance. So then you start to run into communication issues with existing clients and say, well, we can only send this email to our young hiring professionals. We can only send this one to our retired clients. Like, it just creates a lot of complexity. So you might need to sit down and really get clear on exactly who you want to work with. It doesn't mean it has to be, you know, a physician in San Diego five years from retirement. It might be a little bit broader. Right. Just people nearing retirement. And then three types of people that are nearing retirement. You know, tech professionals who, you know, aged, whatever. You know, doctors who are five years away, however you want to frame that. But they might all have similar pain points, similar situation. But, yeah, if you're talking to somebody in their, you know, late 30s and also people in their 60s, it's going to be really challenging.

[Steven]

No, that. That makes a lot of sense. I'd say the one commonality they have is they're just on different parts of the escalator, if you will. But they're all headed to the same place. Right. So these are tech employees who got a ton of RSUs and ISOs that are trying to reach early retirement or retirement earlier than the average American. And then the doctors, it's kind of like, hey, I'm finally in my prime earnings potential. How do I convert this cash balance plan into a retirement?

[Taylor]

But they're so different, right? I mean, like, you talk about early retirement. All the challenges with early retirement are very different than that traditional person who's in their 60s retiring. I mean, straight from, like, just different withdrawal rates that you have to use, different assumptions in the plan. I mean, it's just the tax situation is totally different. So just, again, operationally, you start to think about systematizing these things. If you don't really care about scaling the practice and you just truly want to help people and, you know, maybe you're good with going from 50 million to 100 million, 150 million, and however you get there is fine with you. That's cool. But if you want this to be truly systematized and you want to have a nice, clean, efficient practice and have time with your family and things like that, like, you're just going to have to get more clear and just be honest and say that that hiring tech professional, even if early retirement's on their radar, is very different than traditional retiree at age 65.

[Steven]

Absolutely. To your point about systemizing it, I mean, if you drop them in cohorts, right. Like, hey, here's new client A, they fit in tier 12 or 3, and then tier 1 2.

[Kendra]

Or we would be not doing the cohorts.

[Steven]

Right.

[Kendra]

Like, we would be streamlined.

[Taylor]

Yeah. No, he's asking, like, how would you do? Well, I mean, you're literally going to build, like, separate divisions in your practice.

[Steven]

Sure. Let's say you're a solo. Like, I mean, if you divided my partner and I. Right. Like, already you've kind of dropped it from three to two. Right. And then I would say mine, the the tech professionals and the doctors are actually. Okay, you're talking about 45 to 50 years old. Right? You're talking about people that have a lot of income and want to reduce tax. They, they start to look a lot more similar.

[Taylor]

Yes, you can separate by advising. That's kind of what I was asking is if, if your partner, because he focuses on a different type of client, if that makes it challenging front and center on your homepage to say, I specialize in helping doctors reduce taxes and transition to retirement, like can you write that front and center on your website? Or would your partner say, hey, I don't want to put that because like I work with these people and if so that, that's fine, we just need to know that. Because yes, you can, you can serve these people and he can serve these people and you can have a very kind of broad, generic website. But then we might recommend and say, hey Steven, we might need to build you a different website so you can market directly to those, those doctors and speak directly to them. Because this broad website is not going to land very well.

[Steven]

Yeah, no, that makes, that makes a lot of sense.

[Kendra]

So here's a good question that might help you. It's a non marketing question, but it's a very effective business question. If tomorrow your RIA burned to the ground and you had to rebuild it, but you could rebuild it with all the knowledge that you have now out, what would you do differently? So you've got this kind of, you know, yarn ball of a few different types of clients. And let's just say those are, those clients are going to come with you, but you've got to get very specific. And now, you know, all these different difficulties that arise with trying to attract different types of clients. Discuss with your partner, if we, you know, were to narrow this down, what might that look like? Because you got the business to this point. But if you want to take it to a different level, there are a lot of those pieces that are going to spring up. And just like Taylor said, I literally have a client who's straddling pre retirees and tech executives. I sent them an email the other day and they literally responded. It was like something to the tech execs. Their retirement client responded and said, I'm going to be dead before this applies. So this is a really overwhelming piece for a lot of advisors. And if you don't want to grow, you know, past 100, 150, this might not apply. But you're going to struggle with marketing without having like very clear kind of Buckets of clients at most. Probably one for you and your partner maybe would be good. But that's kind of like what's coming up for me, Taylor, what's coming up for you?

[Taylor]

No, I mean, look, like, again, like, any of these things can work. The hardest part about marketing and having these conversations with advisors, any advisor, I mean, myself, include, like, we all fall into this trap of getting rid of things, getting rid of things that we're doing and committing to working with one type of person and committing to one single marketing funnel. Right? We want to try to help everybody. To your point, Stephen, like, we're all helpers. We're all in this business because we enjoy helping people. So it's hard to say, I only work with these people and not these people. It's just really challenging to do. Again, from a marketing perspective. Like, I've got the podcast, I've got the YouTube. I'm speaking, I'm writing. Like, it's hard to say, you know what, I'm going to set all that stuff to the side. I'm only going to do this one thing. But if you can commit to working with one type of person and you can commit to building one single solid marketing funnel, you're going to have way more success and you're going to build a much better, more efficient practice. So, again, all this stuff works. And so if you and your partner said, you know what, we're just going to go after doctors that are nearing retirement that have oversaved, they have tax problems. Great, like, document all of that. And now we're gonna say, how do we get in front of more people like this? It makes me think, and I brought him up a bunch of times here on the show. It makes me think of my good friend Adam Schmela, works with optometrists nearing retirement. They want to sell their practice, use the proceeds to fund retirement. What does he do? He's always going to optometry conferences and speaking. He has his optometry podcast that kind of complements that. You don't need to go and do that right now, but go to these. You know, where. When do these conferences occur? How do you. How can you become a speaker at them? How can you get in front of more of these types of doctors? And that's all you're going to do. Just over and over again, you and your partner say, how can we get in front of more of these types of doctors who we do our best work for, Build a couple presentations that you can repurpose over and over again, and you're just going to pound the pavement and it starts to kind of come together. But you have to make that decision and really commit to it. It can't just be like, yeah, we're willing to take on some young tech professionals here and some doctors here, and if somebody asks us to do a cash balance plan, sure, we'll say yes. Like, you will have success, you will grow. You'll just end up in kind of a more chaotic place with your practice.

[Steven]

Yeah, no, that, that, that makes a lot of sense. I'm curious to check out the Adam Schmiele. Was he an optometrist or trained as an optometrist?

[Taylor]

No, his wife was in that, that world, which kind of, you know, ultimately. But he had to make that hard decision to say, I'm only going to work with optometrists. Again, that's not easy to do as you know, to say, I've got all these great clients, I know all these great people in my network, like I'm in my 30s. But you know what, I'm going to focus on private practice optometry owners and help them transition to retirement. But, you know, I've watched him since the very beginning. I've known him for a long time, and his business just skyrocketed. He is the financial planner for optometrists. But it doesn't happen overnight. It took years to establish that trust and build credibility with these organizations, to allow them to speak and build trust within that community. For other optometrists to say, you need to go listen to his podcast or you need to go talk to Adam. So it takes, it takes time. But you have to start with, we're going to commit to this. And that maybe requires a conversation with your partner. If your partner wants to go down a different path, then that's fine. You just might need to create your own separate marketing channel and your own separate website so that everything speaks exactly to that target client of yours.

[Steven]

That makes a lot of sense. So being cognizant of time, let me just say so far all this advice is super helpful. So let's say we're just driving down the car. It's Southern California, so you have to drive everywhere. We've made a decision. We're going to focus on doctors individual cash balance plan is more consulting or making sure that they're aware of it. The optometrist makes a lot of sense that there's optometrist conferences if you were trying to win more individual doctor clients. And Taylor, you've probably done some of this work already. Is it going to conferences? Is it trying to write pieces in journals? Is it trying to get spots on white Coat Investor? Like what, what, what kind of like, let's just assume that's the path we're going down, right? We're in a new territory. This is Dr. Town, you know, like give me some advice, give me some advice down there.

[Taylor]

Here's the thing. I don't know. I don't specifically market to doctors. So again, I think starting point is are we going to commit to working with one type of person? So that's a conversation either with your partner or with yourself to, to 100% commit to working with one type of person. And then it's saying if we're, if it's going to be doctors nearing retirement, tax problems, whatnot. What types of doctors fall into that category? Like what types of doctors have those pain points that you're an expert at solving? Is it every type of doctor? I don't know. Maybe it is. I'm not really sure. So identifying what type of doctor now it's like, okay, well how do I get in front of those doctors? Are they going to conferences? I don't know. I mean, find out. So it starts to become the like the who not how questions. I haven't done my homework here. I don't know. You could read the book who, not How. That might be a good, you know, action item.

[Steven]

It sounds like a Dr. Seuss book, but it. No, it sounds.

[Taylor]

No, no, no. It's a, it's a Dan, it's a Dan Sullivan book. It's, it's phenomenal.

[Steven]

Awesome.

[Taylor]

I mean the title of the book tells it all. It's like who not how. Like, let's go find other people, other advisors potentially that have had success reaching doctors nearing retirement with tax problems. How are they marketing to them and we can learn from them. So I don't know the answers to these questions, but that's what I would start to do is if you commit to it. We've said this to other advisors on the show. Spend your summer right spent, your kids are outta school. Spend the next three months just doing research and homework on how I can get in front of more of these types of people. What conferences are occurring the rest of the year. Maybe you determine conferences aren't the best way to get in front of them. I don't know. But like you're going to have to spend some time uncovering these things.

[Steven]

That's good advice. And I wrote down who, not how. Good summer reading and Also all these pieces.

[Kendra]

Once you get clear on this, then we are ready to build the funnel. Depending on how you plug and play the Legos in this equation that Taylor just beautifully laid out, literally is the tiniest hinge that swings the biggest door in all of marketing, because it will completely transform how we build the funnel. So we're not actually to the funnel yet. We're working on who we want to attract with the funnel. It's kind of like the foundational. It's like the foundation before the funnel. Once you get clear on that, call us back. We can bring in the show and we can talk through that phone.

[Taylor]

Yeah, and we want to start to see some. Some traction, too. Again, we're not going to expect to go down this path, speak at a couple conferences, and all of a sudden, like, our phones are lighting up. That is not our expectation at all. It's like, let's just start to make some progress here, get more clear, get some opportunities. And if you came back to us at the end of the year and you said, hey, I took your advice, I've spoken at a couple conferences, I'm getting in front of exactly the right types of people. I got another. Another couple opportunities lined up for, you know, early next year. Like, how do I start to think about actually turning these opportunities into growth in my practice? And that's, to Kendra's point, we can start to say, okay, like, we have this really solid, what we'd call middle of the funnel marketing activity. We're out there, we're building trust, we're showing our expertise. We're getting in front of the right people. Now we can start to understand what other activities do we need to implement to support that so that we do start to see our phones, you know, start to ring and we see results.

[Steven]

Okay, foundation, then funnel, part one and part two.

[Taylor]

I like that. Foundation and funnel. That's the title of Kendra's next book.

[Kendra]

Don't give away my secret. All right, Stephen, we had a great conversation. I'd love to know, based on what we discussed today, what might you do differently as you look at clarifying and improving your marketing going forward?

[Steven]

Yeah, so exactly what you said. Clarify name of the game first. So work on the foundation. Taylor actually gave me a pretty big pivot point right there. You know, it can sometimes be good to fall on what's safe and cash balance plays always catch people's attentions. But is that where I'm adding the most value? Is that what's going to grow the business so I can reinvest in the business and service my clients best. Maybe not. And then to your point, Kendra, we've done a good job growing without having a sales and marketing plan, but you know, really solidifying that foundation.

[Kendra]

A lot to clarify here before we put energy into your funnel. And I think we really sometimes it can feel like you're taking a step back here, but the reality is most advisors don't even realize that this huge issue is happening in all their marketing. So you're not actually taking a step back. You're actually clarifying and improving your marketing and preparing yourself to grow, if that's what you want.

[Taylor]

Right?

[Kendra]

So for advisors listening maybe for this conversation and you feel interested potentially in speaking and you want to go a little bit deeper, we have another episode we would love for you to check out. It's a recent episode we did with Neil Chaco. We talk very in depth about how do you get in front of your ideal client using speaking? That episode is called your niche is Clear, so why aren't the right clients finding you? Go ahead, check that out. Let us know what you think and we'll see you next week. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. To get the resources shared or sign up to join us as a guest on one of our advice line episodes, check out the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.