Advice Line: How to Refine Messaging to Attract More Qualified Prospects (Rachael Burns)

Summary

Advisor Marketing Made Simple: Episode Summary Title: Advice Line: How to Refine Messaging to Attract More Qualified Prospects (Rachael Burns)
Release Date: May 7, 2025
Hosts: Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright
Guest: Rachel Burns, True Worth Financial Planning

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Advisor Marketing Made Simple, hosts Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright welcome Rachel Burns from True Worth Financial Planning. Rachel brings her extensive experience as a financial advisor since 2007 and a firm owner for the past five years. Currently managing $20 million in assets under management (AUM) with a revenue of $120,000, Rachel aims to scale her business to $350,000 in revenue over the next five years by serving 35 clients.

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2. Guest Introduction: Rachel Burns

[00:00] Kendra:
"Today's guest is Rachel from True Worth Financial Planning. She's been in the industry since 2007 and running her own firm for five years."

[00:41] Rachel:
"Sure. So I'm Rachel Burns. My firm is called True Worth Financial Planning and I'm based in Granite Bay, California, which is a very small suburb outside of Sacramento."

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3. Rachel's Business Goals and Challenges

Rachel's primary objective is to grow the investment management side of her business to attract higher net worth clients. She seeks to leverage and refine her Circle of Influence (COI) network to generate more quality prospects. Additionally, Rachel is grappling with managing her mid-divorce services, which are time-consuming and less profitable.

[00:53] Rachel:
"My goal is to grow the investment management side of my business and attract higher net worth clients. But the question I have is how do I do that?... Also, trying to harness some of the interests that I've had in the divorce work in a way that's a little less chaotic, a little more profitable..."

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4. Balancing Mid-Divorce and Post-Divorce Services

Rachel divides her services into two main areas:

1. Investment Management Clients:
   These include widows and individuals who have already finalized their divorce and have substantial assets, meeting her $3 million minimum requirement for investment management.

2. Mid-Divorce Services:
   As a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst (CDFA), Rachel offers consulting services during the divorce process, typically on an hourly or flat fee basis. However, only about 15% of these mid-divorce clients meet the high-net-worth criteria necessary for her investment management services.

[02:40] Rachel:
"Not that many, unfortunately. Probably like 15%. So a lot of the prospects that have been coming in have been on the lower net worth side..."

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5. Strategies to Refine Messaging and Attract High-Quality Prospects

Kendra and Taylor guide Rachel to focus on post-divorce clients who are more likely to become profitable, long-term investment management clients. They discuss the importance of refining her messaging to clearly outline the client journey from mid-divorce assistance to post-divorce financial planning.

[10:05] Rachel:
"I didn't originally set out to work with people in the middle of divorce... But I was responding to that need."

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6. Structuring Service Offerings and Pricing Models

The hosts suggest restructuring Rachel's service offerings to create a systematized approach that seamlessly transitions clients from mid-divorce consulting to post-divorce investment management. They recommend:

• Introducing a Premium Fee Structure:
  Moving away from the more affordable $1,997 fee to a higher one-time or quarterly fee that aligns with the high-net-worth clientele.

• Setting Clear Expectations:
  Communicating upfront about the transition from mid-divorce services to long-term wealth management to ensure clients understand the value and ongoing relationship.

[16:27] Rachel:
"That sounds great. And that's a piece that I've been missing... So I really love that you do."

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7. Optimizing the Circle of Influence (COI) Network

Taylor emphasizes the critical role of COI training. By educating her COIs on the specific type of clients she serves, Rachel can ensure that referrals are better aligned with her ideal client profile. Additionally, implementing a process to handle unsuitable referrals without damaging her relationships is essential.

[22:47] Rachel:
"Yeah, that sounds, that sounds great. And I've struggled with like, how do I charge? That's like the age old question for me."

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8. Website and Lead Qualification Enhancements

To improve lead quality, Kendra and Taylor recommend revamping Rachel's website messaging to clearly target post-divorce clients. Additionally, incorporating pre-qualification forms with conditional logic can help filter out non-ideal prospects before they book consultations.

[35:52] Rachel:
"I set up one of those forms because I love conditional logic. It's like my favorite thing."

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9. Addressing Multiple Niches: Divorces and Widows

Rachel also serves widows, though they represent a smaller segment of her clientele. The hosts advise focusing primarily on the divorcee market to streamline her marketing efforts, suggesting that widows can be addressed once the divorcee funnel is optimized.

[37:00] Rachel:
"One thing that we didn't address are the widows... I do really enjoy working with widows there."

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10. Key Takeaways and Next Steps

Rachel's biggest takeaway from the discussion is the need to revamp her mid-divorce service with appropriate pricing and clear communication of the client journey. By focusing on post-divorce clients and refining her COI network, Rachel aims to attract more qualified, high-net-worth prospects while reducing time spent on less profitable consultations.

[40:29] Rachel:
"I just love the idea of revamping the Mid Divorce service so that it's priced appropriately... And then having this be something that's easier to communicate to COIs."

Next Steps for Rachel:

1. Revamp Mid-Divorce Services:

   • Adjust pricing to a higher, premium fee structure.
   • Clearly define the scope and duration of services to avoid open-ended engagements.

2. Refine Website Messaging:

   • Update headers and subheaders to target post-divorce financial planning.
   • Emphasize transforming divorce settlements into sustainable retirement income.

3. Implement Pre-Qualification Forms:

   • Use conditional logic to filter leads based on asset thresholds and referral sources.

4. Focus COI Training:

   • Educate COIs on the ideal client profile.
   • Establish processes for handling unsuitable referrals.

5. Evaluate Niche Expansion:

   • Consider addressing widows once the primary divorcee funnel is optimized.

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Conclusion

This episode provides valuable insights for financial advisors like Rachel Burns who are looking to refine their marketing messages and attract more qualified prospects. By focusing on clear client journeys, appropriate pricing strategies, and optimizing COI networks, advisors can streamline their efforts and achieve sustainable business growth.

Notable Quotes:

• Rachel (00:53):
  "My goal is to grow the investment management side of my business and attract higher net worth clients."

• Taylor (07:35):
  "I think your biggest problem is maybe twofold... train your COIs properly..."

• Kendra (28:28):
  "We turn your divorce settlement into income you can live off for the years ahead."

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For more detailed strategies and actionable steps, listeners are encouraged to tune into the full episode and explore the resources shared by Taylor and Kendra.

Transcript

[Kendra]

Hey, it's Kendra and Taylor and we're here to make Advisor Marketing simple. Today's guest is Rachel from True Worth Financial Planning. She's been in the industry since 2007 and running her own firm for five years. Her current revenue is $120,000 with 20 million in AUM. She wants to grow to $350,000 in the next five years, serving 35 clients. Welcome back to Advisor Marketing Made Simple. Today we're having a conversation with Rachel. Hey, Rachel, could you just give us really quickly your name, your firm and your location?

[Rachel]

Sure. So I'm Rachel Burns. My firm is called True Worth Financial Planning and I'm based in Granite Bay, California, which is a very small suburb outside of Sacramento.

[Kendra]

And what's the big question you want to dive into today?

[Rachel]

So my goal is to grow the investment management side of my business and attract higher net worth clients. But the question I have is how do I do that? By taking advantage of the COI network I've already built, but kind of fine tuning it so that it's leading to more high quality prospects. And also try to find a way to harness some of the interests that I've had in the divorce work that I'm doing that I'm sure we'll get into in a way that's a little less chaotic, a little more profitable, and leads to more investment management clients.

[Kendra]

Thanks for that so quickly. One thing I want to compliment you on. I'm going to take a look at your website. We'll link to that in the show description. For any advisors listening is one thing that you are doing well is you are doing a nice job of balancing, you know, the divorce work that you do. I also see that you do some work with widows.

[Rachel]

Yes.

[Kendra]

So we'll, we'll dive a little deeper into that today. But you're doing a good job of that. Um, I find a lot of advisors do struggle with that if they do have two niches. Um, but the thing I want to really dive into first is just understanding a little bit more about that ideal client that you serve. So right now, what percent of your current clients are in that divorce niche versus widows?

[Rachel]

It's about 95% divorcees and 5% widows. And that's not super intentional. It's just divorcees seem to be more common and they find me more easily than widows.

[Kendra]

Okay. And of the current divorce clients, I believe from the application you said they need a, you know, ideal amount is $3 million from a divorce settlement to be really qualified to leverage you how Many of your current divorce clients meet that minimum?

[Rachel]

Not that many, Unfortunately. Probably like 15%. So a lot of the prospects that have been coming in have been on the lower net worth side and they've been needing mid divorce work. And so they're not really becoming investment management clients. Like in terms of my investment management clients that came straight to the investment management side, those tend to be closer to that minimum. But the mid divorce clients are kind of all over the place. A lot of them are, are under a million.

[Kendra]

Can you paint me a clearer picture on what you mean by mid divorce is that basically they're in the thick of it and those people don't tend to be as qualified versus someone who's actually already divorced.

[Rachel]

Yes. So I have two distinct parts of my business. I have the investment management clients and those could be widows, those could be women who are already divorced, but they've already received their settlement and they're moving on. And then I have this mid divorce part of my business. So I'm a certified divorce financial analyst and I offer CDFA services where I'm kind of like a consultant that they hire in the middle of their divorce. There's no assets up for grabs yet. I'm just helping them either on an hourly basis or a flat fee basis. And so I'm getting hired kind of before they are eligible to even become an investment management client. I kind of look at that as a way to get paid to market because some of those do funnel into the investment management side, but a fair amount of them don't. And it is very time consuming work. It's very emotionally draining work. It's created some chaos in my business, which I've been kind of struggling with, how to, how to deal with that.

[Kendra]

When you think about the kind of client that you would enthusiastically serve, is there another path? Do they come, you know, could they come to you with assets after divorce and then, then work with you and be a great fit?

[Rachel]

Yeah, ideally they would come to me after the divorce is finalized. They would come to me being, you know, referred by another professional in their life. That would be ideal. What I'm finding is there is a tremendous need for help in the middle of divorce and there's not a lot of support available. There aren't a lot of CDFAs in my area. And so what's happened is all of these other professionals know, hey, Rachel, does divorce. Call Rachel if you have a question about the divorce stuff. And so I have a ton of interest. I get a lot of people booking consultations and but it's not. A lot of times it's not even something I can help with or if it is, it's. It may or may not make sense to work together. So there's a. This, this funnel is full of people, but it's filtering out the ones that are not a good fit. That's the problem with the investment management side. That funnel is not nearly as full, but they're far better quality prospects.

[Kendra]

And for those clients who have assets that come to you after divorce, are you getting those from your COI process?

[Rachel]

Yes. So, like 99% of my prospects for any part of this come from cois. They're referrals from cois.

[Kendra]

Perfect. Okay, I want to have a quick check in here with Taylor because this is something that's, that we talk a lot about on the show. But we want you to build marketing that's going to build you a firm you're excited to work in and build over time. And so I already kind of see an interesting decision point. I hear on your avatar we're going to talk a little bit more about how we get the high quality leads to you, but there's already a little bit of a decision point. Are we going to market to people earlier in divorce who maybe aren't all the way through it, or are we going to market to those who have completed the divorce? That's kind of like what I'm seeing here. From what it sounds like, those who have completed the divorce have the assets and the interest to work with you and they are actually profitable. Accurate?

[Rachel]

Yes, absolutely.

[Kendra]

And would you be willing to potentially, and we'll see where Taylor takes this, like, step away from earlier in the process marketing to those.

[Rachel]

Yes, I would love to step away from that part, but part of me feels guilty because there are so many people who need help who aren't getting it, but I can't be helping them in a way where it's taking up so, so many hours. If I could find a different way to offer them resources that wasn't one on one, I would feel really good about letting that part of my business kind of die off.

[Kendra]

Super helpful. You know, for the sake of this conversation, could we talk about just that investment management client? Are you willing to just market to them?

[Rachel]

Yeah, I'm willing to do whatever. I just. It's funny because I've had so much incoming interest that I'm just like, like I'm just dealing with all this incoming stuff. I haven't been doing any outbound marketing necessarily. I'm just responding to incoming stuff that is kind of out of my control a little bit.

[Taylor]

I'm curious, what are the two to three pain points that mid divorcees have? Like what, what are they, what are they looking for help with in that stage? Just two, two or three of the big ones, like they, they call you, like I, Rachel, just. This is what my problem is. This is what I want to talk to you about.

[Rachel]

So they weren't in charge of the finances during the marriage typically. And so they're all of a sudden expected to make these really big decisions about splitting the assets, but they don't know, they don't know what their finances look like during the marriage. They don't know what it's going to look like going forward. And they certainly don't know how to evaluate these options that they're, that they're faced with. And so they're coming to me like, hey, is this fair? Is what I'm being offered fair? What's this going to look like in the long term? They all have that same kind of question.

[Taylor]

This is interesting. It's, it's a really interesting one because at first I'm thinking, well, is this similar to young professionals or mid career professionals where it's like, gosh, I'd love to like work with them now and help them now so that when they do retire and you know, they are able to transfer over assets. Like I'm already in the picture. But yours is interesting because like they, they are making really important critical financial decisions that their divorce attorney is likely not equipped to help them navigate for sure. And so they likely need a true financial professional in the picture helping them in some capacity. And if it's another advisor that swoops in that you refer out to or that they find on their own or that the divorce attorney refers them to and that other advisor does an incredible job holding their hand, helping them make really intelligent decisions through the mid divorce process. I question if that person is then going to fire that advisor, then come hire Rachel at that stage. Like, exactly. I have to imagine if they have a really good experience through that mid divorce, you know, process, that advisor does a good job like, like continue helping me, please. Yeah, so I'm a little challenged with like, maybe there does need to be because initially my mind is going over. Kendra's mind was going, but maybe there does need to be a service model for the right people going through that mid divorce process. And so we can talk a little bit more about what that looks like. But I, I just want you to validate that like, do you feel like it is critical that you're involved at that stage helping them make those decisions so that when the divorce is final, they're set up for success and they're going to be a great client?

[Kendra]

Yes.

[Rachel]

And I didn't originally set out to work with people in the middle of divorce. I, I thought I'm going to work with people after divorce. And what I heard over and over again was, oh my gosh, I wish I talked to you six months ago. And there's an, there's a sense of urgency in the middle of divorce. And you'll never find a group of people who is more willing to raise their hand and say, I need help and I need it now and I'm really grateful for it. Like women going through divorce, I swear it's the easiest niche on earth to market to because they know they need help and they really want it. And so I was responding to that need. I mean, I was getting that feedback like, I wish I met you earlier. And so I'm like, it would be better if they would have made these decisions right the first time rather than trying to do plan planning for someone who's like making the best of a crappy situation. So I do think there is an urgent need in the middle of divorce. And I've thought about, well, maybe I just raise my fees to exclude the bottom part of the population, which I've done. And that does help a lot. But there's just kind of a, it's just like, what do I do with this? Because there's such, I feel like there's an opportunity, like a huge opportunity. I don't know if I want to be the one who meets that need. You know, I only have so much time, but so I've also thought like, well, maybe I offer an online course or maybe I have some sort of thing that's not a one on one, you know, time suck, but gives them resources so that they can help make these decisions. And then for the ones who are really higher net worth, it's perfectly reasonable for them to pay my fee to get some help mid divorce. And then those people, you know, I build a lot of trust with them and help helping them in their time and need means a lot to people in that time in their life. And those people often do come back to be investment management clients. So I think it's like shifting to the higher end of the spectrum but doing it in a way where I feel like I'm not leaving people hanging because I do get a lot of referrals from these cois, and they're not really, you know, some of them are not a good fit. But I like that I'm top of mind for these cois, and I kind of wonder if excluding big parts of the population would make me less referable, if that makes any sense.

[Taylor]

I don't think it does. I think you're on to something. I think you think you're right. I think there is a big opportunity here, and it sounds like you've already made a lot of headway and now it's just time to get a little bit more clear and tighten things up. I think the idea of creating an online course or resources like is very altruistic advice. We're helpers. We want to help everybody. But, like, I think that's going to be a really big distraction. We just have to accept that. That you can't work with everybody and that some people are not going to meet your criteria. There are other professionals. There's. There's resources out there. Like, you're not the only person on earth that can help those people. We just have to, like, accept that we can't help everybody. So I would. I would probably push all that stuff to the side. Maybe at some point in the future you can build more resources for people you can't help. But I think I'd push that to the side for now. I think your biggest problem is maybe twofold. One is with coi marketing. It's absolutely critical that you train your cois properly, right? That you educate them as to who you do your best work for so that they're referring you the right people and having a really good process in place for when they refer the wrong person to you, how do you handle that situation without, you know, disrupting that relationship that you've built? Tiffany Charles is a good friend of mine who's in Colorado, and she joined me on the podcast for an interview recently. Kendra, you can look and see when that's coming out. But, Rachel, I'd highly recommend listening to Tiffany. She has a phenomenal COI process, and she shares more about how she handles referrals that are not a good fit. So I think that's number one, is like identifying what Tiffany calls, like, her core coi. So she has five core cois that she nurtures throughout the year and educating them on who her ideal client is, so when they make a referral, it's the right type of person. So what I'm getting to is, like, if we train our COIs properly and most of the referrals we're getting are the right type of person. We have a process for communicating and handling people who are not the right fit. Being really clear about what our process is for that mid divorcee in those situations. And something along the lines of like, Rachel, you're in the middle of divorce, you know, you have some major questions. Here's how I help. At this stage I charge, you know, a one time fee of $8,000 or I charge an hourly fee of $400 or 5. Like it does have to be a little bit more premium, Rachel, because you're looking for people with $3 million or more. So you have to start off with a premium fee. Your fee right now is 1997, like pretty affordable. So some sort of premium fee, hourly one time fee to help them through this mid divorce process. But the very beginning I would communicate to them and say right now at this stage I charge a one time fee of $8,000 to go through this process, help you make all the right decisions after the divorce is final. Here's what that looks like. We transition into a full service wealth management relationship where I'll help manage all of your assets and handle your tax planning and coordination with other professionals and my fee for those services is X. How does that sound to you? Right? And almost have this like communicate this understanding that we're going to work together in a limited term basis here to start because you're in a really critical stage. But this mutual understanding that like if I do really good work for you, you're going to hire me after that as an ongoing wealth management client. And sure, not everybody's going to follow through with that, but setting those clear expectations up front, you know, face to face, you know, do you agree that you're going to consider, you know, this sort of long term relationship right now? It's just when I look at your website, it's like you're either mid divorced or you're either post divorce. It like feels very transactional. Like I'll help you mid divorce person and I'll help you post divorce person. But I'm thinking about this more of like a, a journey. Like it is a funnel. Like a, a divorce attorney is like, hey, you need to go hire Rachel right now because you're in the thick of it. Go pay Rachel whatever she charges. You know, she's not cheap. Go pay Rachel whatever. They come to you, you help them through this really difficult situation. Do you do phenomenal work for them? And then they end up being a long term wealth management, you Communicate to them what that journey is going to look like. I'll stop rambling and just see how you feel about all that.

[Rachel]

That sounds great. And that's a piece that I've been missing is I haven't, I haven't had any discussions about what working together after the divorce might look like. It's been like, okay, we're, we're in this world and then maybe they come back to me and then we're in this world. But they, I haven't been leading them intentionally towards the post divorce work, which is in my mind my main job. That's what I'm trying to grow. And so I love the idea of having this kind of systematized approach where in the very beginning it's communicated. This is how I can help you now, and then this is how I can help you going forward. And hopefully that would help filter out some people who just want the help right now. I mean, I could do that, I suppose, but really I'd like to be meeting people where I'm going to be having a long term relationship with them. So I feel like that is a great solution.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I'm, I'm thinking about this. Like, it's not package one or package two. It's not like, are you this person or are you this person? It's like, divorcees go through this journey, right? It, it starts with this mid divorce, you know, process and these challenges and these pain points and then that turns into the divorce is final. And now I have a whole new set of challenges because I gotta, I gotta manage all my stuff on an ongoing basis and I've never done this before and so I need professional help. So it's like this journey. And sure, if someone gets referred to you and they're like, hey, Rachel, like, I'm already through that part. I'm post divorce, like, great. Like that. Then we're going to start here on your journey. But it's not package one or package two. It's just like, where are you on your divorce journey? Because yes, I'm thinking through. I really would love to hear where Kendra's at because I think our, our minds were going somewhere in the beginning. And I'm learning how critical this, this mid divorce process could be to this whole thing. But I would go as far as not like, here's how I can help you here and here's how I can help you there. It's like, this is exactly how I help my clients. I help people go through this entire journey. This is how I help people. If you want my help going through this entire journey? Like, I'm your person. You know, John Mason has a. Is an advisor, and he's got a great script as part of his sales process. And he says something very direct. I'm not going to get it perfect, but, like, you know, if I show you exactly how I can solve XYZ problem, will you hire me? Like, will you. Will you truly hire me? And he's looking at him say, hell, yes. Right? Like, if you can. If you can show me exactly how you're going to help me solve this problem, I will absolutely hire you. And so he gets that commitment at the very, very beginning. So then at the end of the process, he goes, yeah, remember when I asked you, like, if I could solve your problem and you would hire me? Like, well, here we are. I just solved your problem. Like, are you ready to go? And he converts, like, 98% of people that go through that process because he is so clear about what that journey and process is going to look like.

[Rachel]

Like, yeah, that sounds great.

[Kendra]

I really like Taylor, how you kind of broke that down into, like, part one, part two. And what's really helpful about this process is once you know that this is the process you're going to take them through, you can then start to systematize that process, get it more efficient, and also get more clear knowing that they're going to go into part two. That's the expectation that we're setting. What kind of, you know, what kind of income or assets do they need to have? Like, there might be some elements where you can start. Okay, if your projected divorce settlement might be between X and Y, this is going to be a good fit for you. And it might still be similar to the investment clients you're working with, but it allows you to still qualify on the front end and set those expectations. And from a messaging standpoint, one of the ways I like to really kind of break this up is, hey, in. In phase one, here are the big problems we're going to solve for you. One is, you know, X2 is why, you know, ABC, whatever, right? So I really like that phased approach. And I agree. The reason why we're diving in on this because depending on who we're trying to attract, it's going to really influence our suggestions on the other pieces. And then as far as that approach, how does that sit with you? Does that feel like you could refine your process and that would help you? Do you have any hesitations, like, what's coming up for you based off that structured approach.

[Rachel]

No, I think that would fit in really nicely because I've already been working on trying to kind of reign in what that service entails. So when someone hires me for mid divorce analysis, as you can imagine, that could be if, if left open ended, that could turn into a several year. It's like, do I, how would I charge a flat fee if their divorce is going to last for three years? And so I've like been working on okay with this service. This is what it includes. It includes this analysis, this meeting, 30 days of follow up questions and then for new things that come up or things, you know, material changes, then it switches to an hourly fee. I just wanted to get away from just doing hourly because it kind of turns into a free for all. But I feel like I could continue refining that. Limiting the services like this is exactly what you can expect from this service. And so there's no question. And then, okay, now that we're done with this, then we move on to this when the divorce is done. So I really like that you do.

[Taylor]

Need to think more about this, the service model and the pricing. I'm with you. That like, you know, you don't want to be stuck charging hourly forever and you certainly don't Want to charge 1997 as a one time plan. But then it drags out for three years. That's highly unprofitable. So there's a, there's a gazillion ways you can, you know, structure this. But one thought comes to mind, Rachel, and if you're like really clear, if you get really clear on the sales page that I'm looking at here on your website about what this process looks like and how you help people in this position and who exactly you help. I could see a version where, and calendly can, can do this where you can charge for the first phone call. So the very first step is, you know, an hour long consultation with me. You know, it's $500, like when they schedule their card gets swiped, they have a $500 consultation with you. And then from there if you feel like, you know, I can really help you on an ongoing basis given your situation, I charge quarterly, right? I charge, I don't know what it is, you know, $2,000 a quarter, $3,000 a quarter, whatever you land on. So if it continues like you're, you're in the picture, but you're not, you know, it's not this like hourly type schedule. So you could structure it that way as well. We do want to make sure it's the right type of person that you're not, you know, just helping anyone and everyone through this process. That's where, like the pricing is really going to impact that as well as your, as well as your copy your language and training your COIs and ensuring that the right people are reaching out to you.

[Rachel]

Yeah, yeah, no, that sounds, that sounds great. And I've struggled with like, how do I charge? That's like the age old question for me. It's just like, is it hourly, is it flat fee, is it this, is it that? Like, what, at what point does it end? And, and I've experimented a little bit with that, but I like the idea of quarterly because it can just go on however long it needs to go on and then it can end. It's flexible.

[Taylor]

Yeah. And like, it might be daunting to charge, you know, a fee up front to someone that doesn't even know who you are. So maybe it is like a 15 minute short phone call and then it's a $5,000 one time fee or a $2,000 one time fee limited term engagement, and then from there it's quarterly. Like, you can structure this a number of different ways. You're gonna have to test out some things. But it does feel like if you're looking for divorcees that are gonna have a $3 million nest egg at the end of their divorce, like, 1997 feels like the wrong price point.

[Rachel]

I would agree.

[Kendra]

Because you want that price point to still align with where we're going long term.

[Rachel]

Yes.

[Taylor]

Right.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

I wonder, like, like, how can you get more clear with the people you want to attract? Like, is it, is it feasible to say, you know, I help women going through this major life event, however you want to frame that, going through divorce, you know, who are going to end up with a seven figure nest egg, a $3 million. Like, can you put a number? Like, do these women even know what they're going to end up with? Is that part of the challenge?

[Rachel]

That is part of the challenge. They don't know what they're going to end up with. And a lot of the women that come to me are so detached from the finances that they're like, I have literally no idea what we have. Sometimes they're really pleasantly surprised, which is good, but sometimes they're not pleasantly surprised. So that is a struggle. Is like, how do they even self identify that, oh, I am that person that she works with. But what I've been thinking about is like, the types of problems that they would come to me with it's not how do I budget after divorce? I'm not a budget person. How do I make money when I don't have any? It's like there's part, part of the financial challenges that the population in general has. Part of it is like, I don't do that. I don't, I don't help with, you know, a lack of money. I can't help with that part, unfortunately. But it's the more complicated stuff. So maybe getting more specific about, you know, executive comp, like how that gets dealt with in divorce and how, you know, maybe getting more specific about the, the types of challenges they have that occur in a higher net worth divorce. I guess.

[Taylor]

Yeah. I mean, two things come to mind there. One is, again, if you're going to focus on COIs, then all you have to worry about is training the cois, because the divorce attorney should have a pretty good idea of the windfall or nest egg that this divorce is going to end up with. Yes. You know, he or she should be able to say, yeah, this person's gonna have 2, 3, 4, 5 million dollars at the end of this divorce. By my estimate, she should go talk to Rachel. Like, they should be able to figure that out. Is that fair?

[Rachel]

Yeah. So the pressure is off of me to help the client know whether or not they're qualified. It's just that makes more sense that the professional referring would have a idea of their financial situation.

[Taylor]

Yep.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And that's why I think it's so brilliant to approach this from a COI perspective because you're. That this, this woman, this person's going through a really challenging time. So to your point, like, and I went through this with my own mother who went through a divorce recently. You know, she had no idea how much money she was going to end up with. She had no, like, she had nothing. And when I told her at the end of the day where things landed to your point, really, like, she was pleasantly surprised. She's like, wow. So I think you can lean on the cois again. You have to learn how to work with these COIs more effectively and communicate and train them to send the right people your way. So let them do that for you. There's still going to be some that are not a good fit. So you have to have a process for handling that.

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Taylor]

And then second, I think you're hitting on something important which is like, what are their pain points post divorce? You know, you've used the word investment management a handful of times, so I don't know if you're strictly focused on just managing their money and doing nothing else for them. If that's the case, that's fine. I'm sure, you know, plenty of women, like, just don't know how to manage their money and don't want to manage their money and they might just hire you for that. But I'm also seeing on your site like divorce, financial plan, different topics you're covering. So it does feel like it's more holistic planning. Is that accurate?

[Rachel]

It is. And the only reason I say investment management, that's like referring to how I charge them. But it's like I always tell my clients the way I manage the investments, it's pretty commoditized. But the, the part that makes me different is all of the financial planning and the service. It's so white glove. So investment management is one tiny little part of it. I just get stuck on that word, I guess.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I think I'd push that to the side because I think it just starts to make me feel like all Rachel does is investments. So, you know, if you charge through aum, that's fine, but like, what are you, what are you doing to, to help these people at this stage? You know, what are the, the pain points you're helping them solve? And I was thinking about as you're talking, my mother who went through this situation, her only like, her biggest question was like, okay, I'm pleasantly surprised with what I've ended up with. But like, how do I turn this into income? You know, I'm used to just spending money and living my life. Like, how do I take this windfall now, this amount of money and how do I turn this into income? So really what I do from her primarily is issue and help her manage her retirement paycheck, just create income from her portfolio for her in addition to managing her investments and other things. But that's like the biggest pain point. So what is this biggest pain point that these women are at post divorce? And let's center our messaging around that. Sure, investment management is part of that. But like, there's something more that is.

[Rachel]

That is the biggest question that I get is. Or the biggest problem we're trying to solve is how do we create an income? You know, they get this lump sum and they don't know what that means in terms of their monthly income. And a lot of them are old enough to where they're not going to be starting new careers. They tend to be stay at home moms whose kids have grown and moved out. So that the women I work with they're not trying to go back to work. They're not 65. So it's like, well, how do we, how do we create income when all I have are assets? That's like the challenge that they have. So I've never thought of it that way to focus on it from that end.

[Taylor]

I think that should be front and center. Like, we don't need all these other words that are on this page here. Determining the impact and strategizing and repositioning and re, like, forget all that. Like, if that is truly the biggest pain point for your target client, then that should be front and center. Mid divorce, I'm going to help you make all the right decisions so you don't screw anything up. I'm going to give you clarity and confidence. I'm going to be your partner through this process. Going to work together post divorce. I know because I work with people just like you. Post divorce, your biggest challenge is going to be taking this lump sum and turning it into a predictable sustainable retirement paycheck so that you can continue, you know, your, your quality, your desired quality of life. Like, I will help turn this lump sum into predictable sustainable retirement income for you. That's it. Of course you're going to manage the investments and do those other things, but like, that's the biggest thing that you're doing for them.

[Kendra]

Are they at the age where they're considering retirement or is it. Is. Are they at a point where they just don't want to go back to work? Hopefully after the divorce, they don't call.

[Rachel]

Themselves retired, they're just not going back to work and then they're kind of waiting. And you know, there's, there's like this in between stage where Social Security is not starting for several years. Maybe their half of the pension isn't starting for several years. It's like they're kind, they're kind of retired, but they don't identify as a retired person because they're like 55.

[Kendra]

The reason why I ask is because I had a hunch on that from a messaging standpoint. So it might be something like, we turn your divorce settlement into income you can live off for the years ahead.

[Taylor]

Oh, I like that.

[Rachel]

I love that.

[Kendra]

It might last into retirement, but they don't quite self identify there. But you're going to get them to and through retirement. So one of the biggest problems you solve is how do I turn this into a paycheck so I don't have to go back to work?

[Rachel]

Yeah, I think that's what's on their minds.

[Taylor]

Yeah. And this. And this can be taken right back to the coi. Hey, coi, I help these women turn their divorce settlements into retirement income so they don't have to go back to work. Like, how powerful is that for them to tell their client, rachel's gonna help you do this. She's gonna help you solve this problem.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I love that. It's simple and elegant and something I could say real quick to a coi, it's. I like it a lot.

[Kendra]

So, Rachel, I wanted to give you something that can tie some of this together for you. I took a look at your website beforehand. Right now your says, supporting newly single women on their journey to financial independence. If we were going to narrow in on these divorce, you know, more specifically, you have to tweak this a little bit. But it could say something. You have to. You'd have to speak to both sides of the market. But let's just pretend it's people in divorce. It could be something like, for your header, divorce left you with wealth. Now let's turn it into a plan that will support you for life. Divorce changes. And then your subheader could sound something like, this divorce changes your life, but it doesn't have to change your finances. We help you make the most of your settlement plan wisely and turn your, you know, your divorce settlement into an income you can live off of for the years ahead. You're going to have to clean that up a little bit. But, you know, when I look at the current website messaging, it's a little too broad right now. So we want to communicate more clearly the divorce piece, you're going to have to tweak that a bit for before and after the divorce because it doesn't fully speak to that. But that's part of, not only are we training the cois, but we want the website to reflect that messaging and those pieces because something as simple as we're going to turn this settlement into a paycheck you can live off for the years ahead so you don't have to go back to work. That already speaks to a certain level of settlement. The other thing you can think about on the, on the train to cois is you can say something like, you know, I'm a really great fit. For people who are looking at a divorce of at least this much net worth, if they're at X amount of million of dollars now, the divorcee might only get half of it, but you can kind of start to say, hey, here's where I become wildly effective and I am just worth 10x what you pay me. You know, when you're at at least, you know, 6 million in assets that you're dividing because we, you know, in theory, she might get three. That's a simple way to communicate. I start here, but it can go out from there.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I think that's great. And I think it, it would be easy enough for the professional to know, okay, this is the total marital state. So they can, they don't need to know exactly what she's going to get, but they know, okay, if this is the marital state this much, then whatever the wife is going to get is, you know, that's going to be in Rachel's wheelhouse. That sounds great.

[Kendra]

Because a big part of what you're trying to do here is you've earned the opportunity to refine your process a little bit and get clear on who you do your best work with. We did a, we had a conversation on the, on the podcast. It was Top Advisor website Questions, part one. And we talk about earning the opportunity once you have more leads than you need to create not only more friction in the sales process, but how to clarify them more effectively. So I think that'd be really helpful for you to look at. But you're at that point, and so that's what we're trying to do in your sales process. And through you getting more clear, we're also going to be able to market more effectively to those COIs and repel the prospects who do not have the resources or the complexity to justify your fees.

[Rachel]

Yeah, I would love if I, I mean, I, I feel kind of bad, but I would love if I had less prospect meetings on my calendar because they don't know whether or not they're a fit. They're just talking to me. But if I make it more clear up front, I think I could avoid a lot of those calls. And I'm. It's not just my time I'm concerned about. It's their time, too. I don't want them to waste their time and get excited thinking, oh, I found someone who's going to solve all my problems. But it's like, actually, I don't do that. I do this other thing so that I would love that. I would love to filter a lot of those calls.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I would highly recommend if you're. If you have too many phone calls, of course you need to clean up some language on the site, like Kendra, just walk through. But still, unfortunately, people don't read every single word. And they might see this book, a free consultation and just go straight there. So I do think it's really impactful when you have too many calls getting scheduled to have a form in the beginning before they get to your calendar. So on my website, you can go to definefinancial.com, click the free assessment button. If you scroll down, you'll see we use Typeform and we force them to answer some questions. And there's conditional logic built in. So if they don't answer them a certain way, they get rerouted and they can't schedule. But if they do answer them the right way, then calendly shows up and then they can schedule their call. So you have to be careful because you might go from a bunch of calls to no calls if you add too much friction. But asking a few clarifying questions with some conditional logic before presenting your calendly to them will start to reduce the quantity and improve the quality.

[Rachel]

I set up one of those forms because I love conditional logic. It's like my favorite thing. So. But I. I need to ask some additional questions because it's not qualifying them based on assets or anything. It's like, where are you in the divorce process? And then it. Yeah, but I. I like the idea of adding some criteria in there.

[Taylor]

Yeah. I mean, it could be as simple. Again, if you want to build your business with five core COIs, maybe one of the questions is like, how did you find me? And if they're like, oh, Google search, I don't. Maybe that's a reroute. Like, you know, in a way, like, I'm not the right person to help. How did you find me? You know, so. And so the divorce attorney referred me to you. Okay. Well, now I know this person has been vetted and is likely a good potential client. So that's just one simple way. If you're going to build your business around cois, it's like, well, if they're not coming from one of my five core cois, like, I. I'm. It's probably gonna be a waste of my time.

[Rachel]

Yeah, that's great.

[Kendra]

So we've thrown a lot of stuff your way here. Is anything. Any questions coming up that you have for us based off of some of these steps we've walked you through?

[Rachel]

Um, this all sounds great. This is all answering the exact questions I came in with. Um, one thing that we didn't address are the widows. And I listened to a prior episode where the guy worked with widows and divorcees, and I. I've wondered if trying to appeal to both groups is diluting my marketing efforts perhaps. I do really enjoy working with widows there. I don't find nearly as many of them and so sometimes I wonder, do I even bother trying to market to them?

[Taylor]

That's a big question. Part of me is like, let's stay focused on nailing this divorcee market and cleaning up and fixing a lot of things that we talked about today and let's get that funnel really working. And once that funnel is working, it's very predictable. Then maybe we bolt on some additional language around widows. Might just be hard to like do both at the same time and build the right service model that's going to help both people. Maybe a few widows randomly reach out to you throughout the year and you feel like you can help them. But maybe from a marketing perspective, we set that to the side is my initial gut. Now if the sales process is similar for those widows, if they have similar pain points, I have this nest egg. I don't know how to create income from it. Like maybe there is a way to tie the two together, but I don't know enough about it. It's a challenging space.

[Rachel]

No, that makes sense. And I don't think my widows find me any other way other than being referred by their estate planning attorney or you know, someone that's like, you need to call Rachel. She works with people just like you. It's. And it's already pre qualified at that point. So maybe the. I don't need to worry about that on the website as much.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I mean you could do it certainly. I think there's enough overlap there. It's just going to take time. And so I love that you, it's very clear on your site. It's like divorcees and widows, like click here to go down the, the journey on my site to learn more. So I think it's great that you've already got that segmented out. I'd have to. There'd be a lot more questions to better understand. Like if you're sending out an email newsletter, what you send to your divorcees, is that going to be fitting for your widows as well?

[Rachel]

Right.

[Taylor]

Are your widows going to be getting this email be like, that doesn't, you know, that doesn't pertain to me. So like, is it going to start to create more operational challenges, more marketing challenges? I just don't know.

[Rachel]

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

[Kendra]

And if you start to dial in this kind of pre divorce, post divorce clientele further down the road, this just might be a question, you know, TBD decision to be made in 12 months. Do I keep this niche or not?

[Rachel]

Yeah.

[Kendra]

Once you get more clear on that process, you might get to the point where you find also, like, with more data, it's not a niche you want to go after further because this other niche is working so well. And as Taylor spoke too, it's like there's so many pieces to that process now. If they're similar, then you could consider it. But it's going to be a little bit. You're going to think about the messaging on that front for cois as well. Right. So you can see how the challenge with multiple niches can be different messaging, different funnels. There is some good overlap there, so I think it's still a possibility, but it might not be a decision you have to make now.

[Rachel]

Yeah, that's good. I like deferring things till later.

[Kendra]

Awesome. Well, we gave you a bunch of different kind of ideas and next steps that you could consider. Based off our conversation here today, what do you think you might do differently going forward in your marketing? What's your biggest aha or takeaway?

[Rachel]

I. I just love the idea of revamping the Mid Divorce service so that it's priced appropriately to kind of speak to the different part of the market that I'm going after. Being really clear that this leads to this. These are two steps of the same process, not two disjointed services. I love that. And just having this be something that's easier to communicate to COIs, because it's all I need to do is. Is just talk to the COIs and be like, hey, this is who I help. This is how I help them. This is how you can identify who's a great fit. It's like a super simple conversation. I just need to get clear within myself so I can communicate that to them. And then it. I feel like that will be relatively easy going forward. So I'm really excited about that.

[Kendra]

I agree. I think the clearer you get on who you love to serve and the current clients in your own, you know, list of clients you'd love to clone, it just makes marketing downstream so much easier. So, based off our conversation today, here's what your next steps could look like in full. First, obviously, revamping that Mid Divorce service and pricing it so that it would clearly essentially repel those who are not going to have enough assets in the second part of the process, you might have to raise some fees on part one. You might potentially add the quarterly retainer. Some of those pricing decisions will be yours to make. Also, refining some of your messaging so it's a little bit clearer exactly who you serve at the top of your website. We talked about a few details there. We want to make sure we're really speaking to that ideal prospect and those who are at enough level of assets, then it makes sense to hire you. The other thing is potentially adding a little bit of form logic to pre qualify more effectively because you have more leads than you need right now and TBD to figure out on the Widows, maybe kick that can down the road another year or so. I think some of these other steps will give you a lot more clarity there. And then also we do have a really detailed interview coming out on April 9th with Tiffany Charles on the COI process. So for you I would check that out to get a deeper dive into that and how you can tune up that part of the marketing process or for any advisors listening. And for those listening, if you're enjoying the show, the only way that podcasts grow is if you share it, because podcasts are unique in that they are not held hostage to an algorithm. So if you love this episode, the number one thing you could do is send it to another advisor who is struggling with a similar problem like this. Or maybe one of the other episodes that you love. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. To get the resources shared or sign up to join us as a guest on one of our advice line episodes, check out the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.