Advice Line: How To Streamline Marketing Funnels For Multiple Business Lines (Adam Cmejla)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Advisor Marketing Made Simple – Advice Line: How To Streamline Marketing Funnels For Multiple Business Lines (With Adam Cmejla)

Release Date: October 15, 2025
Hosts: Taylor Schulte & Kendra Wright
Guest: Adam Cmejla, Integrated Planning and Wealth Management

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Overview

This episode dives into the real-life marketing dilemmas of financial advisor Adam Cmejla, whose team is serving optometric private practice owners and who is eyeing expansion with a new business line for aspiring optometric owners. Adam seeks expert guidance from Taylor and Kendra on how to streamline and systematize marketing funnels across multiple business lines, with practical, step-by-step troubleshooting of his funnel, branding, and marketing activities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adam’s Current Situation and Avatars ([00:23]–[04:52])

• Established Niche: Adam has honed his brand among optometric private practice owners ($1M+ in top-line revenue), focusing on cash flow, tax reduction, and prudent investing.
• Emerging Avatar: Recently developed services for aspiring owners who wish to buy optometry practices, answering key acquisition questions: What’s it worth? What’s a fair price? How much will I earn?
• Hub-and-Spoke Model: Adam explains the vision for a "hub" (established owners) and "spokes" (aspiring owners/new services), aiming for cross-pollination between audiences.

Notable Quote

“I was trying to think of a way can we provide value to the marketplace that is looking for it and essentially kind of get paid to prospect in an indirect way, but again still add value to a very specific pain point that they have."
— Adam ([03:05])

2. Assessing the Service Models & Market Segmentation ([04:53]–[08:51])

• Market Size: Approximately 40,000 ODs in the US, but the specific addressable market (qualified for Adam’s offerings) is unclear.
• Service Model Similarities: Despite age and stage differences, both avatars require similar professional financial planning, with some personal nuances.
• Intentional Business Expansion: New service lines are business-driven and designed to complement—not dilute—the core offering.

Notable Quote

“My only regret is that I wish I would have niched down sooner... The narrower you take your niche, the easier everything in this business becomes.”
— Adam ([14:42])

3. Proven Marketing Activities and Funnel Anatomy ([08:51]–[12:54])

• Three Key Marketing Pillars:
  • Writing: Long-term column at a major industry publication.
  • Speaking: Visibility at conferences and optometry schools.
  • Digital Communities: Deep involvement in a large Facebook group (“ODs on Finance”).
  • Podcasting: Host of ‘2020 Money’, blending optometric and financial expertise.
• Strategy: Adam targets organizational “golden geese” (where the audience already exists) versus chasing individual “golden eggs” (each new client).
• Podcast as Lead Driver: Podcast remains the #1 source of leads, with built-in tracking.

Notable Quote

“Empirically, the podcast is still the number one driver of new clients to the firm.”
— Adam ([12:54])

4. Growth Motivation & Underlying Challenges ([14:02]–[18:40])

• Adam’s Drive: Contentment equals growth; wants to help the profession and enable smooth practice transitions.
• Scaling Worry: Concern about plateauing reach with current activities—many ODs possibly haven’t encountered his brand yet.
• Platform Limitations: Adam doesn’t control most community platforms. Attendance at events and reading metrics are limited, and his reach may be capped.

5. Facebook Ads and Multi-Funnel Complexity ([18:40]–[24:53])

• Top of Funnel Tactics: Considering Facebook ads as a scalable awareness tool, but unsure if it’s the right fit or how to structure ad campaigns.
• Branching Funnels: Recognizes that targeting established vs. aspiring owners requires distinct CTAs and nurture sequences.
• Brand Evolution Considerations: Floating the idea of “Optimized OD” as a macro brand/hub, with separate journeys for each audience segment.

Notable Exchange

“There’s multiple different funnels that I’ve envisioned us creating and I can hear the gears in your brains twitching already, like, dude, why are you doing too much? Just pick one.”
— Adam ([21:57])

6. Structural Risks & Tactical Feedback ([25:30]–[27:28])

• Parallel Business Risks: Kendra warns Adam about dissipating energy and slowing main practice growth by adding too many projects at once.
• Landing Page Critique: Adam’s landing pages are not currently optimized for paid ads—lead magnets and page structure require improvement.

7. Refocusing the Approach: Funnel Streamlining ([28:22]–[33:41])

• Funnel Analysis: Kendra encourages mapping every top-of-funnel activity to middle-funnel conversions (primarily email list), then nurturing leads efficiently.
• Podcast & Speaking: Urges clear, benefit-driven CTAs tied to content.

Actionable Advice

“If I drive people from the podcast to the email list, my conversion rate is higher. Then you have your Facebook ads. Again, we still need to be talking to the same person. We’re driving Facebook ads with an offer to a successful optometric practice owner. They’re going into your email list.”
— Kendra ([34:30])

8. Brand & Content Strategy for Multi-Line Firms ([36:45]–[49:35])

• Hub vs. Spoke Brand: Comparing Adam’s vision to Michael Kitces/Buckingham dynamic—one broad, value-driven hub, the other deep, focused RIA services.
• Website/Brand Dilemma: Don’t muddle the established wealth brand with too many diverse offers; create distinct, optimized paths.
• Content Titles Feedback: Kendra points out Adam’s long and diluted podcast titles could be much sharper and more benefit-focused for stronger engagement.

Notable Quote

“What problem does this solve for me? They don’t care who Mike is until they care about how Mike helps them.”
— Kendra ([49:08])

9. Tightening Up Middle-Funnel Activities ([49:35]–[56:17])

• CTA Optimization: Move from generic, catch-all intros to bespoke, episode-specific calls to action for better conversion.
• Rotational CTAs: Maintain a roster of 3-5 strong lead magnets and carefully schedule their promotion on a rotating basis.
• Tech Stack Improvements: Explore SMS/text opt-in as an alternative to URLs for faster lead capture (via ActiveCampaign).

10. Immediate Next Steps & Takeaways ([56:36]–[62:16])

• Action Priorities:
  • Rewrite podcast titles for clarity and benefit.
  • Develop 3-5 compelling, rotating CTAs for podcast/email conversion.
  • Tweak nurturing sequences—use “greatest hits” podcast episodes to keep both email and podcast channels warm.
  • Refine lead magnets and ensure every exposure point directs prospects toward email sign-up.
• Strategic Perspective: Recognize business line separation—different funnels, offers, and perhaps separate technology stacks/teams.

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Memorable Quotes

• On Niche Specialization:
  “The narrower you take your niche, the easier everything in this business becomes. From marketing to onboarding, to prospecting, to servicing, to even selling your practice down the road.”
  — Adam ([14:42])

• On Funnel Complexity:
  “At the end of the day, I think you just have this extremely complex spiderweb of funnels.”
  — Taylor ([32:40])

• On Lead Magnet Placement:
  “If I were looking at that [industry publication], and they allow you to have a link out, then I would actually drive to some kind of offer or lead magnet in your bio.”
  — Kendra ([34:30])

• On Brand Hub Creation:
  “It does feel like it’s necessary if you’re going to broaden content to speak to a lot of different people and be able to say go to optimize OD to learn more.”
  — Taylor ([44:35])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Adam’s Core Question: [00:00]–[01:14]
• Explaining Avatars & OD Transitions Launch: [01:14]–[04:14]
• Market Sizing & Segmentation: [04:46]–[06:20]
• Proven Marketing Pillars: [08:51]–[12:11]
• Driving Forces for Expansion: [14:02]–[18:14]
• Facebook Ads as a Top of Funnel Option: [18:40]–[24:20]
• Multi-Funnel Strategy/Hesitations: [24:53]–[27:28]
• Focusing on Wealth Management Firm Funnel: [27:43]–[36:45]
• Optimizing Top and Middle Funnel (Email/List): [34:08]–[36:45]
• Hub-and-Spoke Brand Structure Debate: [36:45]–[49:08]
• Podcast Content & Title Optimization: [49:08]–[51:16]
• Rotational CTA/Tech Stack Moves: [52:07]–[56:17]
• Immediate Next Steps & Summing Up: [56:36]–[62:20]

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Final Takeaways

• Focus and Simplicity Win: Streamline all marketing channels to push ideal prospects onto a single, well-nurtured email list.
• Segment with Purpose: Keep separate business lines clearly divided in brand and funnel orchestration.
• Test and Iterate: Whatever offers, landing pages, or lead-gen tactics are used, continue to test messaging and optimize based on real data.
• Delegate, Don’t DIY Everything: For complex paid strategies, invest in true experts (e.g., media buyers for Facebook ads, funnel consultants).
• Content Drives Conversion: Sharper, more benefit-oriented podcast titles and rotating CTAs can increase lead flow without adding new work.
• Keep the Main Thing the Main Thing: Don’t sacrifice proven, profitable routes (wealth management for owners) for the untested and speculative.

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode balances expert marketing strategy with empathy and wit. Taylor and Kendra challenge Adam with thoughtful questions, share laughter, and inject humor, but ultimately provide actionable advice tailored for sophisticated advisory businesses facing real complexity.

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For more information, resources mentioned, and links to guest appearances or to join future Advice Line episodes, check the show notes.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's Kendra and Taylor and we're here to make advisor marketing simple. Today's guest is Adam from Integrated Planning and Wealth Management. His team of six has been serving clients for 18 years and has grown to $1.4 million in annual revenue. Adam, what's that big question you'd love our help with today?

[B]

So I have spent a number of years now, five plus years, building brand credibility within the optometric private practice space and feel like we've got a good of brand momentum there. I'm trying to figure out what we should be doing to better streamline and systematize our more specifically top and middle of funnel activities relative to the existing momentum that we have.

[A]

Okay, cool. Tell me a little bit about your avatars. I saw from the information you sent me that there are two. One is the optometric practice owner doing at least a million dollars in top line revenue, looking to proactively manage their cash flow, reduce taxes, invest prudently. Dig that?

[C]

Heard.

[A]

Number two is aspiring owners that want to buy a practice. So tell me a little bit more about how you came to adding that additional avatar.

[B]

Yeah, so the additional avatar is indicative of the hub and spoke model that has kind of grabbed my attention here over the past 12 to 18 months. And that's the hub has been that first avatar, the private practice owner doing at least a million dollars in top line revenue. They've owned their practice for a period of time. And you mentioned those three pillars of proactively managing cash FL utilizing the cash flow to build wealth and invest prudently and reduce taxes. But as we continue to get more and more involved in the optometric space, we started to see other needs of aspiring practice owners and existing practice owners alike. And from an aspiring practice owner standpoint, there is their fundamental desire to try and answer three specific questions. Number one, if I find a practice that I want to buy, how much? What is this practice worth? And then number two, how much should I pay for it? And then assuming I feel good about one and two, number three is how much money am I going to make from this? So the idea behind this was in collaboration with Brian and what he's done in the dentistry space to help aspiring dental practice owners buy dent buy dental practices. We want to do the same on the optometric side of things. Help these young ODs that want to find their way into ownership but don't want to make a big mistake doing it. How can we steward them through the transaction? By launching this OD transitions offering. And then as we're helping them through this process now in kind of an almost snarky way, hey, we've helped you navigate this. Ultimately, you know, one of the larger financial transactions you're ever going to have in your life, you've never been an owner before. How about we talk to you about what it would mean to be an advisor to you as an owner and that would kick right back into the flagship offering through integrated planning and wealth management on both the being essentially both their personal and professional cfo. So in a nutshell, I was trying to think of a way can we provide value to the marketplace that is looking for it and essentially kind of get paid to prospect in an indirect way, but again still add value to a very specific pain point that they have.

[A]

Okay, and of your current clients, how many of the aspiring kind of practice owner are you currently serving, if any?

[B]

That is short answer is not many. The vast majority, over 65% of our of our client base right now are current practice owners or ODs. The other part of them, I kind of joke, what do you call an optometrist the day after they sell their practice? Taylor's ideal client or any other, any other advisor that works with either pre retirees or retirees like that is the other subset of our client base and then a smattering of other non niche clients from previous years of working as an advisor. This new avatar that we're looking to build energy around is speaking to that top of funnel activity that I also put in the intake form, which is what are some of the activities that we should be thinking of to promote and position this offering as a way to kind of cross pollinate what we're existing, what we're already doing within the flagship brand? Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah. Do you see that second offer as a second business?

[B]

Yes. Great. It is. We've already, I mean I've already laid the foundation for that. It's the revenue that we're, and we're already doing half a dozen deals pending right now and that, and then that's before the book has even launched. So the book that we're writing aptly titled how to Buy an Optometry Practice is a soup to nuts process in collaboration with Brian on how to buy an optometry practice. And so yeah, we have some proof of concept there already.

[A]

Okay, cool. And what is a total addressable market for optometrists by the way?

[B]

Ballpark. 40,000.

[A]

Okay, cool. Taylor, what's coming up for you?

[C]

Adam, what, what percentage of that 40,000, out of curiosity, fits somebody that you Would, you know, want to talk to at least have the opportunity to work with.

[B]

It's a good question. I don't know what that TAM would be, what that total addressable market would be right now. I know out of the 20 plus optometry schools of which I've had the privilege of speaking at about half of them, every single one of those schools has a private practice club which is run in collaboration with a faculty member of that school. And I've spoken at, there's an organization called solution, which is the Student Optometric Leadership Network that think of it like the House of Delegates. Every student or every school sends representatives from their private practice clubs to an annual meeting. I've had the privilege of speaking at that meeting and being involved and that was part of the catalyst for seeing that there is a need for this. There are students and aspiring practice owners that want to buy a practice, but there's so much information online, there's so many conversations happening in forums, in private groups that they're just trying to figure out how do I make the right decision the first time. But a long answer to say, I don't know the exact number, but I, I do know that it's there.

[C]

Okay, what, what's the age range of somebody looking to buy a healthy practice?

[B]

Typically it's going to be someone that's, I mean, at the very earliest it's going to be late 20s. Most of them are in their early to mid-30s.

[C]

Okay, is that an entirely different service model for those people? Like let's say you help them buy the practice of their dreams. They buy the practice and now you're like, hey, by the way, we can also help you with full service wealth management CFO services. Like how different is that service model for that, you know, 30 year old who just bought this practice compared to that 50 year old that already owns the practice and maybe retirement's five or 10 years away. How different are those service models?

[B]

Yeah, good question. Very similar service models on the professional side of things, on the personal side of things, you might see a little bit of variation, right, that younger OD might be focused on what a lot of other younger clients might be focused on. How do I buy my house? How do I save for my kids education? What's my, what kind of insurances do I need? You're, you know, you're, you're blocking and tackling a financial planning which admittedly would be a little bit different from our, from, from your late, you know, early to mid-50s practice owner. But we already have clients in each of those subsets and have not struggled in fitting the service model to be specifically generic, if you will. Right. It's still specific enough that we're able to provide that value to those clients, even though they might be, you know, 25 years apart in age.

[C]

Okay. And I just want to clarify one thing for everybody here and everybody listening. It doesn't sound like you branching out into some of these different spokes is like a way to give back or a way to help more people. Like, this isn't like, an altruistic motive necessarily. My gosh. Like, there's so many other ODs out there that need my help, but, like, I can't help them. So I'm going to write a book and I'm going to try to develop this other, like, service model for them. It sounds like this is a, like Kendra had alluded to, like a real business that syncs up nicely and complements your existing business here. Is that, like, is that accurate to say correct?

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Okay. Okay, so talk us through. I know, maybe share a little bit more. So everybody has a clear picture here of some of the things that you're doing from a marketing standpoint that are working. I. I know you, you know, very well, and you've established yourself in this profession, in this industry. Like, you are one of the go to CFPs for optometrists. So what are the things have you done up to this point from a marketing standpoint that have worked really well and continue to work really well. And then maybe that segues into your question, but, like, what else could I be doing to reach more ODs and funnel them into these different, you know, products or service models that I'm developing.

[B]

Yeah, great question. I think me explaining that will inevitably streamline the conversation or give us some context going forward. So there are three pillars that I think of that have been primary drivers in the promoting and positioning of our firm. Number one, I have had a long standing column coming up on 10 years with review of Optometric Business, which is one of the online national publications for optometry. I have spoken on the national optometric circuit. So Vision Source, or excuse me, not Vision Source, Vision Expo east and West. I've been involved in seco, which is a South conference in Atlanta. I've been involved with IDOC and a couple of other buying groups. I have built relationships with Vision Source, which is another major buying group. So my philosophy has been, rather than trying to find all these golden eggs of an ideal client avatar, you know, a private practice owner, how can I Nurture golden. How can I nurture golden geese? So let me build the relationships where pun intended, where the eyeballs already are, and become the thought leader, become the resident expert in those organizations and use that platform as the ability to provide value and thus build my, build my name and brand out there. Another area that I've invested a lot of time and energy in which will dovetail into likely future conversation here on today's episode is I've been involved in the Odyssey on Finance Facebook group, which is an or, which is an online Facebook group. I'm the resident og, if you will, the resident CFP OG of the group. Been involved for probably the better part of six years now. That organ or that group has, I think it's over 40,000 members. So optometrists, students, service providers, opticians. Like, there's an, there's an eclectic mix in there, but the primary members of that organization of Odyssey on Finance are optometrists. And lastly, I've had the podcast 2020 Money creeping up on 360 episodes, which interestingly, is not a show about. It's not primarily a show about making good financial decisions in your practice. Sure, that's part of it, but the angle that I took with the podcast was how do I bring on people that can help optometric private practice owners make the right decision with their money in and out of their practice? So let me bring on a subject matter expert to talk about how to implement cash balance plans into a practice. Let me bring on a practice management consultant to understand the KPIs in your practice that can increase your profitability. And then what do we do with that profitability? So the common denominator of every episode is twofold. Number one, what's your next best step? And number two, how does this indirectly or directly tie into your cash flow and thus the decisions that you make with your cash flow? So the podcast for me specifically has been kind of a top and middle of funnel activity. I mean, it certainly has been nurturing. I'll have people that have listened to the show for years finally reach out and schedule a triage call. And then I'll have other people that have listened to the show for four episodes and they'll reach out and schedule a triage call. A triage call for us, for listeners is what we call what most advisors would call their first introductory call. So those are, those are the three top of what I consider, again, top of funnel activities, the writing, the speaking OD's on finance, and then the podcast, I guess four different rivers just out.

[C]

Of general curiosity, I'm curious if you felt like bringing on other experts has hindered you in any way on the podcast? You know, I've always long thought, like, well, if I just bring on a bunch of experts and tax planning experts, you know, retirement planning experts, behavioral experts, like, then the people listening are not really interested in hiring me, right? Because I'm not. I'm not demonstrating that I can solve their problems. I'm demonstrating that I know a lot of other people that can solve their problems. Like, do you think that's hindered you in any way?

[B]

If it has, I wouldn't be able to prove it. So. Sure.

[C]

Yeah, I. Yeah, it's more just, like, curious. Like. Like, no, it hasn't. Like, I actually, like, is there something maybe you're doing in those conversations to, you know, give them the platform and add value to the listener, but also adding to that conversation to ensure that, like, you're still positioned as an expert as well.

[B]

So, empirically, the podcast is still the number one driver of new clients to the firm. So we track that, we use Acuity for our scheduling software, and we ask that question, how did you find out about us? And the podcast is still the number one driver of new relationships to the firm. The other angle that I took with the podcast, and my hope is that the listener hears this as well, is I genuinely want this profession to succeed. Like, I genuinely want OD's to be successful. And if I can be the catalyst and if I can create a platform that allows me to bring subject matter experts on, that can help them be a better business owner, because they don't get that teaching in school. There aren't a lot of resources out there that that can help them, that they see, whether implicitly or explicitly. I say this on the show, that I'm making an investment in their profession to ultimately help them succeed. And so if there is some type of triggering event in their life that is directly tied to a financial decision, my hope is that between my investment in the success of their profession, as well as the episodes that I do have that are directly targeted to the work that we do as advisors, that they think of us.

[C]

First lesson, always, for anybody who's listening, they're probably sitting there being like, you know, Adam, $1.4 million in revenue, you know, very operationally sound practice. You're like, you're the go to person in this profession. You've been doing a lot of these things for a long period of time. Consistency with the podcast, Facebook group. Speaking like, you are Plugged in and dialed in. Like, what? Like what. What is the problem? Maybe, maybe I'll ask before, before we talk. Like, what is the problem? Like, why. Why are you here sitting in the doctor's office? Maybe the question is, like, what if you did nothing else? Like, what if you just kept doing everything that you're doing now? Like, are you. Do you feel like that won't get you to your growth goals?

[B]

Let me lay on the proverbial couch for the answer to this question, right? I will try and be as concise with the answer as possible. And it's a good question, Taylor. And it's something that I struggled with for probably the better part of six months, through the end of 2024 and into early 2025, because to your point, I mean, we were firing on all cylinders. I have a phenomenal team of which I know they'll probably either indirectly or directly find or listen to the show and hear this conversation. I am incredibly grateful to, to the work that they do and the value that they provide to our clients. Yeah, we have a really good thing going right now. I realized that my definition of contentment is growth. I'm not content. Just, yeah, everything's good. It's fine. Because you're right. Look, 1.4 million in top line revenue with good owner margins and a team that's committed to success. And I admittedly have solved. One of the things that I hear consistently on this show with advisors is how do I become the subject matter expert? How do I become aware with or how do. How do I get my ideal client avatar to hear me? And look, I understand that and I'm not being cavalier about how hard that is because I did that. I understand. My only regret is that I wish I would have niched down sooner. And for everybody listening to the show, if you're wondering, because I've heard it, I promise you, the narrower you take your niche, the easier everything in this business becomes. From marketing to onboarding, to prospecting, to servicing, to even selling your practice down the road. The narrower you take that ideal client avatar, everything becomes easier. The reason, circling back to your original question, Taylor, is what I said earlier on the podcast. I genuinely want to see this profession succeed. This profession being optometry. And I see this issue happening. We've seen this happen with some of our clients that Jim Collins writes about this in Good to Great on what makes good companies great. And it's the fire bullets, then cannonballs approach. So great companies test out ideas and strategies in a low cost, high impact way first. And then once they have that proof of concept, then it's okay, bang, let's fire that cannonball. I feel like our firm is at that point where we've identified a need in the market marketplace and we've delivered value to the cases that we've worked on already. And I've heard it from these young, aspiring practice owners at optometry schools. And as if that wasn't enough, being a third generation business owner and seeing my dad not build a practice or not build a business that he was able to build any type of enterprise value in and sell to a buyer, I don't want these. Like, there is an overwhelmingly imbalance of sellers and buyers in the optometric profession. So if I'm really wanting to maybe put the advisor spin on this, I almost feel like it's a fiduciary obligation for me and our existing clients. Like their business is worth nothing until they have a willing buyer willing to exchange a check on closing for their practice. So, yes, to your point, I look at this as an opportunity to create another business line and be complementary to the flagship service that we have. But I do also believe, first and foremost, it is in the best interest of the profession of optometry to help these practices pass from G1 to G2. Sorry, that was pretty deep. But hopefully that makes sense.

[C]

It makes sense and I guess is also looking for just like the marketing, the three core marketing activities that, you know, you've been implementing, having success with. Like, what more do you really need beyond that? Like, why do you need more marketing activities to pursue this, you know, you know, new, new business of yours? Like, if you just kept doing what you're doing right now, or will this not reach enough people?

[B]

Bingo. That's my concern. Or that's my, that's what I'm trying to solve for is so admittedly, because I don't own the platforms that I'm on. I mean, I know that there are, like I said, 40,000 some members within the Odyssey and Finance Group, but I don't know how many people read Review of Optometric Business. I don't know. I mean, I know how many people are in the attendance, in the audience when I speak, but that's a couple of times per year. And because it's continuing education and they're getting credit for it, I can't promote and position and have QR codes to download our toolkit and things like that. So my concern is that there's an entire population of optometrists that don't even know who I am and don't even know who we are. And because downloads on the podcast are, you know, as, as you and I, and as we're all well aware, not everybody listens to podcasts as much as we would like them to. So I'm looking at, are there other avenues of top of funnel activities? Whether it's related to this OD transitions or even our flagship service of, you know, what has got us to this point? Are there other top of funnel activities? Specifically, I've been dip my toes into Facebook ads because that's where ODs hang out, right? Go where the fish are. Is that a viable option to consider as a way to bring brand awareness to the community that may not otherwise know we exist?

[C]

What are your thoughts, Kendra? Where do you want to take this?

[A]

So we actually have a couple questions that you just asked in one and you may not have realized. One is how do I grow two different businesses? Because I see them as two different businesses. And the second is, does this top of funnel activity of Facebook ads make sense? I have a couple thoughts on the marketing activities piece, but I guess the question I really have is which business are we trying to grow? The firm with the practice owners of a million dollar in revenue or are we looking at these aspiring owners? Because I think that really changes a lot of different pieces from my current perspective.

[C]

Yeah, maybe answer that through the lens of Facebook ads, Adam. Like, what do these Facebook ads say?

[B]

I don't know. It's literally a whiteboard right now. So we haven't executed on any campaigns yet. The way I look at it, getting the Facebook ad and designing that is the last step in the process. I want to make sure that we have the nurture sequence, the toolkit that they would download or whatever offering that we have. Whatever CTA that we offer, I want to get that buttoned up first and then once we have that now we can start designing some type of Facebook ad campaign.

[C]

But who's this, this funnel that you're working on, this email sequence in the back, who is that for? Who is that speaking to? Is that. Is there a sequence for those looking to buy and those looking to sell?

[B]

In an ideal world, it would be both. Well, it would be both in the sense of one of them is the avatar for OD transitions, so the aspiring buyer of a practice. And the other would be for our flagship services. And they would. Those are, to your point, they're two very different avatars of which would require two very different CTAs, which would require two very different nurture sequences. Right.

[C]

And two very different Facebook strategies.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

So are you thinking about attacking one of these to start or you're going to try to attack both?

[B]

Now, the one that I was thinking about, the one that I have been putting a lot of energy and momentum behind in, not to throw another hand grenade into the conversation here, but the pivot that we have been considering just as we start to start introducing more of these ancillary services. Kendra, to your point, it's a completely separate business with a completely separate service model is pivoting the brand, if you will, rather than everything living on Integrated Planning and Wealth Management's website to creating the Optimized od. Somewhat of a working title, but we're kind of anchored to that. And from the from optimized od.com there you can choose your journey. If you happen to come to Optimized OD because you clicked on a Facebook ad, that is because you want to download the first two chapters of my new book, how to Buy an Otometry Practice, you're going to be taken to the OD transitions page, landing page. If you are somebody that clicked on our Facebook ad because of the cta, again, still under development, that is geared towards the traditional IPWM client of a million dollar plus practice owner, you're going to land on this section. So there's multiple different funnels that I've envisioned us creating and I can hear the gears in your brains twitching already, like, dude, why are you doing too much? Just pick one. I can't just pick one. Or maybe you're going to tell me to just pick one. But that's part of why we're having this conversation is in my mind, I feel like we can do both of them or as many of them as we want because we have the brand equity and because we have, once we make the audience aware of who we are, we have the subject matter expertise to be able to curate that relationship regardless of which offering it's for.

[C]

I guess I still just want to go back to, and I definitely want to dive into that topic of creating this kind of hub for the different services that you might offer, different products you might sell. I'm just, I'm still going back to this, like, tactic of Facebook advertising. So as you're thinking about it right now, you mentioned your whiteboard and thinking about building some of the backend stuff. Like, again, who is this Facebook ad for? Like, is this, is this, are these Facebook. Are you going to start with one of these segments? Like, yes, we're going to build Facebook ads for optometrists looking to sell their practice. And like every ad is going to be targeted towards those people. Or are we trying to broaden this.

[B]

First? No, the, the bullets essentially going back to my Jim Collins metaphor or his, his philosophy. The bullets that we're going to fire from a Facebook campaign strategy are going to be to ODs that want to buy a practice and that is tied into the upcoming release of the book how to buy an Optometry Practice. So somewhere that book can feed into this funnel. Where exactly it fits in, I'm not sure. But that would be the first campaign and I'm not wanting to do. Look, I know I've shared, I've used and a lot in this conversation. I want to do this.

[C]

It's better than or. It's better than or.

[B]

But at the same time, just because I'm saying, and I'm also cognizantly aware I don't need to do them at the exact same time. The one that I want to start with first is OD transitions. Aspiring owners that want to buy a practice who. Which would coincide to the release of the book, get some data points there, get some momentum behind that, turn that flywheel a couple of times. And as we measure momentum there, my belief, and it's worked well thus far in the growth of the business, the next step will present itself.

[A]

If you didn't grow your primary firm with these ODs who have a top line revenue of a million dollars for the next 12 to 18 months, would you be okay with that?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Cool. If someone's. I'm going to ask you, just answer quick. I'm going to ask you because I got, I got questions. Second question for the aspiring owner, someone who's, you know, 30 plus, can they afford to hire you at all on like the wealth management side or they're just not there with assets or income, can they hire you at all yet?

[B]

No, because we don't have a service model for that. We don't want to.

[A]

Next, for the Facebook ads funnel, have you talked to a Facebook ad specialist about running ads?

[B]

Not yet.

[A]

Okay, couple thoughts here. First, you're highly at risk, in my opinion of slowing down your growth on wealth management clients, adding on this extra piece, you're okay with that. So I just want to acknowledge that. One more question. Is the book written?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, cool. The reason why I'm asking about if you've talked to a Facebook ad specialist. I knew the answer before because I looked at your landing page. It's Beautiful. But it's not built by a Facebook ad expert. I am not a Facebook ad expert. I have friends who are incredible media buyers who run ads. And so right away I could tell the page was not built in a way that would be probably highly optimized for Facebook ads. Let me give you some very specific feedback on that. So you know what I'm talking about. When I come to your landing page at the top, it says, run the numbers before you buy. Below that it says, download our optometrics buyers dashboard. And then I scroll down the page and then I see, you know, what you'll get. I think you've buried the lead here. I mean, yeah, and I think the reason why this is really important is two things. Facebook ads can be effective, but they are a different beast. The second thing is I'm not actually sure that if you're going to run an ad to that book that that's going to convert.

[C]

So.

[A]

And then also we've got a different landing page here for a dashboard. So kind of my high level thoughts are we're really looking at growing two different businesses and how we grow. Each of them is very different. So which one do you want us to help you grow?

[B]

Let's focus on the wealth management practice, because to your point on the OD transitions, I think there's still too many things that we don't know about that business yet. To your point, that landing page wasn't built for Facebook in the first place. So yeah, it haven't done the Facebook research. I, I, the reason that I'm still anchored to that, whether it be on the wealth management side of things or the OD transitions, I am admittedly anchored to the fact that there's so many ODs that hang out on Facebook. And I just feel like from a social media standpoint, if we're trying to go where the fish are, to use that phishing metaphor, that's where they're at. Okay.

[A]

Something I want to resurface here is at the start of this call, you said, what I really want your help with is how to streamline my funnel and my activities, particularly at the top and the middle of funnel. And you also mentioned that you really want to grow. You love that growth. And so from a philosophical level, I would think about how do I grow the wealth management piece specifically. That doesn't mean that the idea of the hub for practice owners isn't a great idea. I just think that there is a big risk to the revenue. And I also think as we start to kind of shift Back over to the wealth management side. My hunch in looking at your marketing activities is that you probably have a decent working funnel on the podcast side, but you probably have a lot of activities and not enough marketing funnels. So there's a few pieces here where I don't think all of these pieces are probably giving you the same juice for the squeeze. So for example, you said you have the industry website that you contribute to. I think that's awesome. That's really great. As we have that attention, how are we turning that into an email subscriber, which is probably what you're going to need to do for that to really contribute to the funnel. The Facebook group. What's your activity like in there, if any? The Facebook ads. If we were to use Facebook ads, then that can be a top of funnel source. We run it to that primary icp. There's just a lot of activities here that I think we can stream timeline to grow the wealth management firm. And that doesn't mean the hub can't be a part of the strategy, but I just think it's a very different strategy because I think of something like, you know, Michael Kitces, he has this content hub and then on the back end he has Buckingham. Right. So you could be the Buckingham, you know that, that content hub, you know, your, your OD could be the platform, but it is a separate business and, and there's a lot to that and, and that might be a nut that you want to crack and you're excited about. I just think there's still a lot to do on the wealth management side. That's my take. How does that land?

[B]

Before I answer that, I want to get Taylor's feedback. When you mentioned OD's on Facebook, I saw Taylor just kind of. Taylor, you nodded your head like no or that wasn't that you didn't believe that. What was, what were your thoughts? Well, all right, I think I said, I think I said I'm anchored in the belief that or not the belief, because I see the activity in OD's on finance, that OD spend a lot of time on Facebook and that if I'm trying to drive brand awareness to an audience hasn't come across me, our firm, through the podcast, through speaking, through review of optometric business, even through OD's on finance, that putting together a well thought out designed by a Facebook ad expert would be a way to attract that avatar. And I don't know that you were sold on that.

[C]

Oh no, I'm actually really sold on it.

[B]

Oh, okay, well, thanks for having me. I'll catch you guys later.

[A]

Wrap it up, folks.

[C]

No, I mean, like, look, like if there's anyone I'm okay with running this complex funneled, you. I mean, again, like, you have solidified yourself in this space, and you know it so well from so many different angles. And again, you are one of, if not the, like, go to people. Like, so you do have this opportunity to make a bigger impact and create different business lines for this profession. Like, you. You do have that opportunity. You could just focus on, you know, your comprehensive wealth management services, CFO services for more mature, you know, practices, transition into retirement, and you probably have the same amount of success. I don't know, maybe not. But, like, you would do just fine doing that. But I'm also hearing you, like, you know, to me, content is growth, and you see this opportunity and you want more. And, like, that's great. I'm sure a big part of it too is, like, I just want to help more people. There's all these, you know, young, aspiring owners that want to buy a practice, and they can't find the practice, and then there's the people who want to sell and they can't find the buyer. Like, you're seeing these opportunities and you're willing to put in the time and energy and you're really thoughtful about it. It's like, I'm okay with all this. I totally understand where Kendra's coming from. At the end of the day, I think you just have this extremely complex spiderweb of funnels.

[B]

And so, like, yeah, that's why I'm here. Figure this out for me.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

But in. So in all seriousness. Yeah, I appreciate that. And Kendrick, to go back to what you had said, I think I'm curious to hear a little bit more about when you say ways in which I could be nurturing that middle of funnel activity. You know, for example, I on the review of optometric business, with every article that I have there, there's a link to a link tree page that I created, I don't know, seven years ago or something that has a smattering of links and they like, kudos to them. I'm grateful to the editors there that allow me to put those backlinks in there. Is there more that I should be doing there? Is there? Maybe that's what you're talking about that I need to button up that middle of funnel. Like, what would be. If you are looking at that top of funnel activity and utilizing the audiences that is already there. What am I Is that what you're talking about?

[A]

Let me ask you a couple of follow up questions and let me give you some feedback on that right now. What's your monthly website traffic like? Give me a ballpark.

[B]

730 I think is what it is if I'm looking at the numbers correctly.

[A]

What's your monthly podcast downloads?

[B]

A little over 4000.

[A]

What's your email list size?

[B]

1200.

[C]

What's your Social Security number?

[A]

Where are you growing that email list from? Is it the pop up on your. The opt in on your website?

[B]

Yes. So combination of the opt in on the website, the links from what I assume to be review of optometric business. But I think these are the exact things that is the forcing mechanism for me to say I need to be better buttoned up on these things because I don't know how to answer that question directly.

[A]

So here's how I look at this. If I were looking at these lead sources like your contribution to the website, that's really big in your industry optometric business. Right. That's a top of funnel channel. Now from that I will be looking at. And this is why every kind of activity that we're doing really needs a good set of eyes, which is what's our goal from that. Yes, you're gonna get brand awareness. You already have great brand awareness. If I were looking at that and they allow you to have a link out, then I would actually drive to some kind of offer or lead magnet in your bio. Then that takes that visibility from that website and converts it to the middle of funnel, which would then be your email. Second, I would make that kind of your core middle funnel. And then we could take the podcast, which you do have some visibility there. And I would actually work on driving those podcast listeners to the email list. Now this is a more advanced strategy than most advisors can really tolerate. But what I found from the podcast and for my own clients is that if I drive people from the podcast to the email list, my conversion rate is higher. Then you have your Facebook ads. Again, we still need to be talking to the same person. We're driving Facebook ads with an offer to a successful optometric practice owner. They're going into your email list. So this takes multiple top of funnel channels and it essentially funnels them into one middle of funnel activity. And then I would. And then if you think about which.

[B]

Is the email that you're talking about.

[A]

Yeah, totally. And then I know some of your speaking events are not, you know, you can't make any kind of offer, but the same Thing, the speaking event is email list. So, like, this is, you know, not the way I'd build it if, if, if, if you were not in the unique circumstance that you're in. But if you're looking at taking your top of funnel channels and streamlining it, which is what you told me you wanted to do at the start of this call, that's how I would think about that. And then the last thing I'll tag onto this is like, you know, the additional kind of hub for that other thing. I think that that's a completely different conversation and how I would structure that and how I would grow that. Taylor, what are your thoughts?

[C]

My thought right now is that I'm going to just be your thinking partner here. Adam, I don't, I don't think I really have a good answer for you. I think it's a really challenging thing to solve for here, but a really fun thing to solve for here. And one thought that's going through my head again, this isn't, you know, advice. It's more just like thinking alongside you here is, it's almost like you have this decision to make, like if you want to be the, the Dave Ramsey or Susie Orman for optometry, where when you're out there speaking or hosting your podcast in the Facebook group, it's very wide ranging advice, financial advice that speaks to a lot of different ODs. And you're like just this go to person in the wealth management financial world for ODs of all shapes and sizes. And you have that ability to go that route where you're casting this really wide net. And within that wide net you now have multiple service models that you can start to funnel people into as they come into your funnel. You know, most of us don't have all these different business lines or potential business lines, but you, you are starting to and you want to build these out. So. Because like, I'm just thinking, you know, you go speak, like, how do you choose your topic? Are you going to just decide that day? I'm going to talk about buying a practice and then the next day I'm going to talk about like selling a practice and the next day I'm going to talk about retirement. Like, it just starts, like, how do you start to create your content calendar and determine what you're going to talk to? That's. Yeah, it sounds challenging to me. The other option is just like, I'm just going to have all these like, like dedicated little funnels all working in the background. I've got this one Facebook ad Funnel for people buying practices. I've got this other Facebook ad funnel for people selling practices. Got like the traditional funnel for just retirement focused optometrists and you could do it that way, but at the end of the day it's like this complex spider web of funnels which kind of leads me to, man, I would just like hire somebody who's a specialist in helping people develop these funnels that have these like, I don't know, I keep thinking of like a Hormozi or a Gary Vee where you know, there's like these, these free value ads. Then funnel you into like buying the book, which is like a $12 purchase. And then once you buy the book, you can also like pay for some additional coaching and like you're upsold every bit of the way until there's this like premium service model that you're paying $25,000 per year for. Like those type of marketing experts I think is like where you, you might be headed. It might need some, some real guidance because the book is so much different than the helping you, you buy. It's different from the wealth management, it's different from the private CFO services. And like they're all connected. And so like, I don't think you're doing anything wrong here. It's just, it is complex to solve for it. And again, it's, it's a fun problem to solve for, but it's just challenging for me to say, here's what I think you should go and do.

[B]

No, I appreciate that, Taylor. And, and it is, I think you're, you're right in the sense that maybe I don't want to be Dave Ramsey or Susie Orman, but I do in the sense that as long as the common denominator is practice ownership, I love business and I love the planning that you can do as a business owner and that we as advisors can help business owners do. There's a whole different toolkit that exists in the planning realm. As advisors that are listening know that business owners can utilize that non business owners can't. And specifically to me, scratching that itch of advising on business is what I absolutely love doing. That's why I continued to remove myself from client service, because I found myself gravitating more and more towards the business side of things. And I don't mean to digress too far in that discussion. I want to take what you were saying and pivot back to this idea and concept that I had of a brand pivot around making optimized od.com the hub instead of integrated PWM and what you had said, Taylor, like, I've got all these different tributaries that can feed down the speaking and transitions and masterminds and CFO services and wealth management. Like, there are all these different spokes that come off where the hub primarily or previously has always been integrated pwm, but for multiple different reasons, compliance being one of them, and because these other services are literally other business activities or outside business activities with separate ein, separate bank accounts, separate payroll. Like, I don't want that under the raa. So on one hand, I love the idea of pivoting things to optimized od.com, but on the other hand, I've heard the two of you talk about on the show, and I think I'm correct in this understanding the more options you give a potential buyer, the harder it is to convert. Or maybe said differently, give people what they want and don't make them work for it. So if they go to optimized od and now they go, okay, which avatar am I? Am I this? Okay, click into that one. Not like, I want to streamline that journey as much as possible. And I feel like I'm dancing a razor's edge here of creating this outside brand for what I feel like to be are good reasons, but yet doing it in a way that doesn't detract away from the visitor's experience. Does that make sense? And would you agree?

[C]

Yep. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And I just want to take one step back before we go there. You know, you mentioned, like, really enjoying the business side of optometry. And yes, like, it flirts with wealth management. It's certainly a part of it. But like, really focusing on, like, operating.

[B]

A really successful balance sheet statement of cash flow. KPI's in the business. Yep. Revenue per OD hour, all those things that impact the business.

[C]

Yeah. And you're good at it. And so I think that's one thing I'd really hang on to is like, the core of all your marketing activities, whether you're speaking, whether you're, you know, hosting a podcast episode, whether it's a monologue, you're bringing on guests. Like, to me, it feels like the content should speak to those business pain points. Even if somebody is doesn't own their own practice, they're an optometrist that aspires to own their own practice. They would still want to hear that episode because they're thinking about buying a practice or starting their own practice. And so they're interested in that content. So is the person who already owns their, their own practice, they're interested in it, or somebody who's owned it for a long time and looking to sell and get out and go retire. Like the core. The content should speak to those looking to buy, those looking to sell, those that own. And I think you could do that. But again, it's like you're broadening it, right? Because you're not just talking like, hey, this episode is for you. If you're looking to buy a practice, like, that's going to be challenging. So the content, I think I don't listen to your show, but like, so I don't know how broad it is, but I think that's how I think about the core content. So like if you're speaking on stage at a conference, like, it should speak to those aspiring business owners and, or those that already own the business. That's just the way my I'm. And then so that funnels into this Optimize od, which I think is just a really nice catch all for things. I don't know how powerful it is. It does feel somewhat necessary. And again, I'm not sure the exact way to structure it, but it feels like this ne this necessary catch all. Because if your podcast is speaking more broadly around the business side of optometry and your speaking engagements or speaking more broadly or your Facebook interactions, you have this catch all where you say you want to learn more. Like, I've got a bunch of things that add value to you. Like go to optimizeod.com so instead of like go listen to the podcast or join my email list or you know, like you're just giving them one single home base to go to. And I think if that home base is properly built, I share your concern about, you know, paralysis by analysis or just giving them too many options.

[B]

Decision fatigue. Right?

[C]

Yeah. But I think again, you, you need a consultant. If you work with the right person, I think you can create that, that proper journey for that person so it doesn't feel overwhelming. And maybe you land on this, this website and you go through a series of questions that funnels you to the right place in the website. Right. Do you own a practice or not? Yes or no? You know, that takes you to the next step. Like, so I think there's a number of different ways you can structure that site so that it's not overwhelming where you show up and it's like all these products and services to choose from. But it does feel like it's necessary if you're going to broaden content to speak to a lot of different people and be able to say go to optimize OD to learn more. Again, exactly how you build that, I'm not sure. Yes, I, like, I think Kendra and I both are like, oh, that's like. Because it's so complex. Like, well, it's just, it's just, it's just a lot. But if there's anybody I'm okay with doing it. It's like I, it's Adam.

[B]

I. And again, I appreciate that I, I asked the question because. And I can't remember which one of the guests it was that you had on. I remember where I was on a run when I heard it. Kendra, you had mentioned. And you, you had rent. You had referenced Peter, Peter Lazaroff and his shift of like building a completely separate site. It's a big lift. It's a lot of work. And I want to. To your point, Taylor, I, I do feel like we're at that inflection point where the juice is worth the squeeze to, to make that lift. I just needed the reaffirmation that you guys agreed.

[C]

Yeah, again, like if you're willing to put in the time, the energy, the money, the resources and go through all this because you see the opportunity, again, like I think it's totally feasible and I am thinking about it from that Gary Vee Hormozi or in our profession that Dave Ramsey, just like it's broadened. But once you get into my funnel, I'm funneling you in all these different directions. Okay. So yeah, if you do want to.

[A]

Sell things, you know, like a mastermind and things like that, you know, different service offerings that are very different in separate completely from wealth management, I think that hub can make sense. I think we're just trying to highlight the trade offs that you may make on the wealth management side overall. And obviously this is a long term play and eventually, maybe over time that becomes where you send everyone regardless of where they're at and that becomes the hub. A couple things that I just wanted to bring to your attention just from kind of looking at a few things, I can already see the muddiness because you're trying to bring this aspiring owner into your current website. So I look at your website and at the top of your website you have a 2020 money membership and I click on that. And that's not for, you know, the successful owner doesn't look like.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

No, that was supposed to be taken down a while ago. So I need to get on the powers that be and make sure that that gets adjusted.

[A]

So yeah, so I saw that. Which is essentially a call to action for that aspiring owner. And then below that I see, you know, below your big headline, I see a secondary, another headline a little further down the page which says why practice owners come to ipwm. So like, I can see how you are trying to integrate these two pieces and I think from the overall conversation here is if you are going to go down that path, I think that hub could be a good answer for that. I wouldn't integrate that into the current one because you're niching and your messaging is so strong, it's so narrow, it is razor sharp to that successful practice owner with a million dollars in revenue or more.

[B]

Makes sense. Makes sense.

[A]

And then one additional thing, and I think this is where when you have multiple channels such as a podcast and speaking and guest posting, it can be really easy to overlook the obvious. And one of the things I saw when looking at your podcast is that your titles could use some work. They're decent, but I don't think they're good enough. So for example, I'm looking at one of your recent titles. For one, your titles are really, really long, so I'd probably tighten those up. I'd also really shape them to be a lot more benefit driven. For example, I saw one recently that said using data to determine the best location for your practice with Mike Jorgensen from Car Healthcare Realty. Now, couple things here. One, if your audience doesn't know Mike and Mike's not a big deal, I personally take their name out. Okay, really, all we care about when we consume any kind of content is what problem does this solve for me? They don't care who Mike is until they care about how Mike helps them. So that's one thing that you can just do to shorten it. If I were to rewrite this title for you to remove Mike, focus on the benefit and shorten the title, it would sound something like how to use data to choose a Wildly Profitable Practice location.

[B]

Then that is what a low hanging fruit.

[A]

It's right in front of your eyes.

[C]

And you can go back in time and update all these. They'll get all.

[B]

Yeah, that's a really good idea and really good observation, Kendra. Thank you.

[A]

Now let's, let's, let's take this a little bit further. So because we know that we're speaking to practice owners of a million dollars or more on that podcast. Because in my personal opinion, if I can drive them to the email list, I have a higher chance of converting them to a call later. I would build a few, you know, core lead magnets for this one. Right. For example, it might be like, hey, lead magnets. It's like the three numbers you need to know before you expand your optometry business. Because maybe they want to buy a new location. Right. Kind of thinking about a few core pieces, like something you could drive to. So then we have a couple things working in our favor. We know exactly who we're speaking to in the podcast. Second, if you put a podcast episode out, they click it and they listen. I've increased one of our clients downloads by about 25% just changing their titles. I told them to stop writing their own titles and to let me write them because they were doing exactly what you're doing now. Sometimes they listen, sometimes I don't.

[B]

But I blame Tim Ferriss, for what it's worth. What's a keyword? Shoving to an extent in the titles, which I know eats up the space. And I really love your observation about the guest. Doesn't matter if they don't have that notoriety.

[A]

Yeah. So this is just a really low hanging fruit. And again, I think thinking about who are we talking to? And then how can we move a fraction of those to the email list? And again, thinking about your strategy, this can, you know, if that email list becomes kind of your good middle of the funnel hub and we have these top of funnel activities, I think one of your biggest issues right now is you have a lot of top of funnel activities that are not actually converting to the middle of the funnel.

[B]

Makes sense. And yeah, you're right. And so on that note, let me ask a follow up question if I may. When you think about those very direct CTAs that are complimentary to the show topic episode, one of the things that I have thought about with my show is I basically use the same introduction for every single episode. And what I mean by that is let me specify the second part of the introduction which basically is something along the lines of for all the resources that are mentioned in today's show, head to integratedpwm.com where you can blah, blah, blah, blah. While there you can schedule a triage call and you can get on the list for when we launch our next cohort of masterminds and you can go to the success master class. Like exactly. So, so sorry. Yeah, noted, noted.

[C]

Kendra was gonna snort at you at some point.

[B]

That's a first for the show. I don't think I've heard that before. So.

[A]

And alas, I won't do that.

[B]

I'm glad. I'm glad I could bring that out in you. Kendra. That was awesome.

[A]

It was supposed to be me falling asleep.

[C]

Adam, just put yourself in the user's shoes here. Like, they don't want to hear the same thing over and over and over again, right? So I. I used to do a new intro for every single show. I recently just created a really tight, simple intro similar to what we have for this show. And if there's a really strong call to action that I want attention put on, it's just at the very top. Before any music, before anything plays, just, hey, everybody, Nick Magiuli is coming on the show today. I'm giving away 15 books to listeners. To get your copy of the book or, you know, put your name in the hat, go leave a review. Send me a screenshot to this email address. You know, that's it. Now onto the show. Now the show goes. Intro's tight, short, and we go into it. I would do the same thing. If I'm like, hey, everybody, today we're going to dive really deep into the one big beautiful bill and all the tax planning changes ahead. To help you follow along and help you take action after this episode, go download my free tax cheat sheet or one big beautiful bill tax guide. You know, go to youstaywealthy.com tax and go download it. That's very beginning. Before anything else, if I want attention on something, that's how I would do it.

[B]

That's a really good idea.

[A]

I have some additional thoughts that I would add to that. What I call this is a rotational cta. So essentially for a podcast, I like to come up with, and you have to build these over time. You may already have them because you're so integrated in this niche. Three to five offers that are really strong and literally on the podcast content calendar, I map out which CTA has been used. So if you do the tax, you know, call to action the next episode, you don't want to do that because we do want to balance that out and we need to see it from a 30,000 foot level. So just add, you know, however you manage your podcast, add a rotational CTA to that process. Find three to five great offers and exactly how Taylor said at the beginning of the episode, just have that rotational offer that you film, you know, custom to that, that that goes in the episode. You could in theory actually pre record it, but if you want to connect it to the episode, I think that's a better way of doing it. And then the other thing I'll add, I haven't tested this, but it's actually on my list is I'm really curious about how a text opt in might convert compared to a URL. So, hey, if you want my text cheat sheet, text 333 to Taylor. And I'm just kind of curious. I have no data on that, but that's something I would look at. I think the workaround right now, if you don't have that system set up, because that's another project, is I actually say click the link in the description and we put the link in there instead of asking them to go to the URL.

[B]

So it's funny that you bring that up. We had my team just yesterday was researching that and they said that to do the resources that they found, said to do the like, short text, like text tax to 3. 3, 555 was minimum. Look, and I'm all for spending money. If it's worth it, that's fine. But I was shocked at how expensive it was. It was like minimum 300 bucks a month. And it went up from there and it was inverse. The shorter the number, the more expensive it was on a monthly basis. I'd be curious if you have platforms that would be conducive to that. That might be, for lack of a better word, a little bit more cost effective. But it's something that, that serendipitously we had also been eyeing and looking at.

[A]

Typically, I try to see if the platform itself has an integration for this specific scenario, like the email platform that we use for our clients as activecampaign. And I believe they have integration. We haven't set this up for a client. It's on my roadmap. But there are plenty of tools out there. And the question I would pose to you is you don't want to spend 300amonth on this, but you're going to go build an entirely new website. Would you pay $300 a month? Month for, you know, leads? Like you're gonna go run Facebook ads and that's, you know, that could be 8 to 10 to 15 to $30 a lead. I have no idea what the cost per those leads are now, but. And I think it's relevant that, hey, I don't want to pay $300 a month for ads, but you're gonna pay a lot more building on this additional brand.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's. I was distracted when you were talking about that because we also use ActiveCampaign, and for 17amonth, you can get a thousand SMS credits. Now, that's not permission for, for every listener to go out and bail on whatever they're using to go on activecampaign. But thank you for the disclaimer sitting right. Sitting right underneath my nose. So I appreciate you sharing that.

[A]

Definitely. So. And again, I don't know if text to opt in will convert. Well, we have to test it. Right. And there's a few pieces to that process, which is one we have to have great episodes people listen to. We've got to get the rotational CTA in there, we've got to set up the text opt in and we got to have good offers because you could have that funnel built and it could technically work. And your offer sucks like your lead magnet. Right. So there's, there's a handful of pieces there that to me are kind of low hanging fruit as far as like on the wealth management side.

[B]

Makes sense. Makes sense. And that's like, we've got that flywheel going. And I know that if we just keep doing what we're doing, like we've on average, it's like we're doing well on that and that flywheel is spinning. So I know that we'll continue to bring in clients that way. I just think this is a really, the, the suggestions that you've made are really good way to fine tune that process. Have a decent amount of output without a lot of input. It's not, it's not a heavy lift. So I appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah. And once you get this set up, like your team can, can execute on most of this, once you know the rotational CTA set up, like you just decided or somebody else decides it and you can record it. So there's a lot of things you can streamline. Adam, I feel like we have went on a journey today. I don't know if we streamline marketing. I don't know if we streamlined it. We definitely drove off road.

[C]

We did not make marketing simple today.

[B]

Well, no, we did. I think we went on a journey to ironically simplify it at the end because I think at the beginning of the conversation was very. Yeah, it was a journey. But what I appreciate and what I think the two of you are so good at doing is distilling down the complex into the simple. Right now, my nbs, the next best step, which is what I talk about on our show all the time, is low hanging fruit of retitling episodes, building a rotation of some really catchy CTAs, and then fine tuning our email nurture to include like our greatest hits of the podcast that we know are continually downloaded as a way to cross pollinate email subscribers with podcast listeners and vice versa. So those are three really what I consider to be. And again, I appreciate most of them are just sitting right in front of us that you pointed out. So I appreciate that, Kendra.

[A]

Yeah, and a couple other things I jotted down for you also is just the recognizing that these are two different businesses. So the way that we, we build them both is going to be different marketing funnels, going to be very different looking. Also, if you're going to go the Facebook ads route, you're you. I would recommend hiring a consultant who understands offers and landing pages and that's going to plug right into your middle funnel. And that might be a, you know, might be a separate email system because it's a separate business with separate automations. And then also just like improving the conversion of your current top of funnel channels. You know, we talked a little bit about this amazing industry blog that you contribute excellent content to. How can we take a little, little piece of that? Could we, we could we get a good like offer in your bi, you know, your little like end of article byline. You know, looking at the podcast, we didn't even talk about are you going on, are there other podcasts for this industry that you're going on to build that? I mean there's a lot there. Right, but the takeaway is of the channels you have. Can we optimize them to contribute more to your middle of funnel?

[B]

Yes, yes, there are. And we're doing a lot of those, but we could be doing them better.

[A]

Taylor, what's, what takeaways do you have before we wrap up here?

[C]

I don't really have any major takeaways. I think I'll just repeat what I said earlier is I think as you, you know, continue on this journey and solving this complex web of funnels, I think there's just like some zooming out to do a broadening of content. The last thought that crossed my mind, Adam, is like you've written this great book about selling your practice, but like it's like a step too narrow and again like it's fine, like you've got a strategy for it and it's working. But like, like in a perfect world, I think if we're moving into the book writing world, we have a, a generic financial planning for optometers book, right. That like cast that, that Dave Ramsey Wide Net. And at the end of the book it's like, hey, by the way, if you're looking to sell a practice or buy a practice. There's two other books out there for you to, to consider. And you know, so starting that, that broader top of funnel, casting that wider net and being able to segment and funnel people, people through these different opportunities that you've, you've built these different service models, whether it's just selling books or whether it's full service wealth management or private services or mastermind groups. Like, it's really cool that you have all these opportunities, but it does require this broadening of content, collecting key data points to then funnel people through that web. But we covered a lot. I think we should probably wrap it up and just say, Adam, thanks for bringing this conversation to the table as certainly a different one, but a lot of fun for me to just think through. It's different. And I appreciated the conversation today.

[A]

And I also want to say that two things, one, man, how fun is it when you niche? I'm not saying it's for everybody, but it's a good time. It's a good time. Like you can just go so deep. And most importantly, which I think is the biggest takeaway of all, is this question arose because you do want to help more people and you understand how to build a business model out of it. You know, you do genuinely care about contributing this industry, which I think is really, really important. So at the end of the day, I hope you are able to, you know, get in front of those optometrists. And there's so many good pieces here. It's a very unique case that you've built. But have you earned it?

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thanks for joining us.

[B]

I appreciate you both. Thank you.

[A]

Yeah, thanks so much, Adam. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. To get the resources shared or sign up to join us as a guest on one of our advice line episodes, check out the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.