Advice Line: Should You Narrow Or Broaden Your Marketing Niche? (Jason Co)

Summary

Advisor Marketing Made Simple: Episode Summary

Title: Advice Line: Should You Narrow Or Broaden Your Marketing Niche? (Jason Co)
Release Date: April 23, 2025
Hosts: Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright
Guest: Jason Koh, Certified Financial Planner at Co Planning Financial, Kansas City, Kansas

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Introduction

In this episode of Advisor Marketing Made Simple, hosts Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright engage in a deep conversation with Jason Koh, a certified financial planner specializing in serving Asian American clients. Jason seeks guidance on whether to continue honing his niche or expand his marketing efforts to a broader demographic to achieve his ambitious revenue goal of $500,000 in five years.

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Guest Introduction

[00:00 – 00:45]

Kendra and Taylor introduce Jason Koh:

• Jason Koh runs Co Planning Financial in Kansas City, Kansas, and has been operating for nearly four years.
• He is currently on track to generate $100,000 in revenue this year.
• Jason's primary question centers around his marketing niche: Should he continue targeting Asian Americans, an affinity-based group, or broaden his demographic reach?

Quote:

"The big one is the niche that I'm marketing towards, which is Asian Americans. It's definitely considered affinity based marketing. You know, is it the right direction?"
— Jason Koh [00:49]

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Understanding the Niche: Asian American Clients

[00:45 – 07:28]

Jason elaborates on his ideal client profile and the specific needs of Asian American retirees:

• Cultural and Language Barriers: Many clients have never worked with a financial advisor before and face language and cultural differences that can lead to misunderstandings.

• Family-Centric Planning: Clients often plan for multi-generational financial support, such as purchasing larger homes to accommodate parents or providing financial gifts for children's education.

• Investment Behaviors: There is a tendency towards conservative investments or speculative moves, influenced by cultural backgrounds and immigration experiences.

Quote:

"There's going to be more family planning like making sure when they're buying a home it's big enough so eventually the parents can move in with them."
— Jason Koh [02:41]

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Current Marketing Success and Challenges

[05:50 – 13:17]

Jason discusses his marketing transformation:

• Lead Generation: Transitioned from minimal leads to 55 scheduled calls in four months, primarily through consistent YouTube content.

• Client Demographics: Over 95% of leads are Asian American, with a majority being pre-retirees or "fire chasers".

• Messaging and Website: While the website visually targets Asian Americans, the copy remains broad, causing potential mismatches in client expectations.

Quote:

"I've made a deliberate decision to really double down on marketing towards Asian Americans."
— Jason Koh [09:52]

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Narrowing vs. Broadening the Niche

[07:28 – 28:04]

Taylor and Kendra provide insights on refining the niche:

• Specialization Benefits: Focusing on a well-defined niche allows for tailored messaging, streamlined processes, and higher conversion rates.

• Website Optimization: Emphasize the niche in website copy to attract the right clients. For example, stating, "We help Asian American families transition into retirement and minimize taxes."

• Fee Structure and Scalability: Jason's current one-time plan priced at $5,900 is profitable but may not be scalable. The subscription model at $375/month offers ongoing engagement but lacks long-term client retention.

Quotes:

"If you get more clear and it's just what I'm talking about, how it ripples through your entire practice, it starts to feel more viable to do more than four plans at a time or more than you're doing right now annually."
— Taylor Schulte [28:04]

"My demographic, although they would have a preference to work with someone who comes from a similar background, can communicate easily. They'll always choose someone who is technically better or not all the time, but, like, mostly lower cost, too."
— Jason Koh [14:31]

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Addressing Fee Sensitivity and Client Fit

[19:03 – 40:29]

Jason delves into fee-related challenges:

• Fee Sensitivity: Clients over 65 are highly price-conscious, often opting for lower-cost DIY solutions despite the potential for higher long-term costs.

• Conversion Rates: Currently converting about 20% of pre-retiree calls, all of which are Asian American or mixed race.

• Scalability Issues: Managing a high volume of one-time engagements is time-intensive and unsustainable for Jason's growth goals.

Recommendations from Hosts:

1. Filter Leads Through Messaging: Implement clear niche-specific messaging on the website and booking forms to attract qualified leads.

2. Introduce Friction to the Sales Funnel: Add qualifying questions before scheduling calls to ensure prospects align with the ideal client profile.

3. Optimize Initial Consultations: Limit the duration of initial calls and focus on determining mutual fit within the first 15 minutes.

Quote:

"We're asking you to get clear on who we're talking to here. So we gotta get clear on that because it's gonna ripple through every single communication, your sales process, your marketing, your YouTube videos, everything."
— Taylor Schulte [26:27]

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Implementing Strategic Changes

[40:27 – 44:19]

Taylor and Kendra outline actionable steps for Jason:

1. Refine the Niche:

   • Define a specific age range (e.g., 50-60) within the Asian American demographic.
   • Identify core pain points to enhance targeted messaging.

2. Update Website Copy:

   • Clearly communicate the specialized services offered to the defined niche.
   • Incorporate direct references to serving Asian American families transitioning to retirement.

3. Enhance Sales Process:

   • Utilize forms with qualifying questions to filter out non-ideal prospects.
   • Consider referring out leads that do not fit the niche to maintain brand integrity.

4. Leverage Time Efficiently:

   • Systematize the financial planning process to reduce time per engagement.
   • Explore hiring support to manage increased workload as the business scales.

Quote:

"The clearer you can get on that niche will allow you to then also qualify, which will then filter down also to your YouTube videos."
— Kendra Wright [36:46]

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Concluding Insights and Next Steps

[44:19 – End]

Jason reflects on the discussion:

• Website Redesign: Plans to update the website to include transparent fee structures and stronger niche messaging.

• Business Model Evaluation: Will continue monitoring the effectiveness of subscription services and one-time plans to determine scalability.

• Referral Strategies: Open to referring non-ideal clients to other advisors, enhancing community support within the Asian American financial advisory space.

Final Recommendations from Hosts:

• Clarity and Focus: Emphasize the refined niche across all marketing channels to attract high-quality leads.

• Process Optimization: Implement systems to manage client engagements efficiently, allowing for sustainable business growth.

• Continuous Evaluation: Regularly assess client engagement models to ensure alignment with long-term business objectives.

Quote:

"I've made a deliberate decision to really double down on marketing towards Asian Americans."
— Kendra Wright [44:19]

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Key Takeaways

1. Niche Specialization: Focusing on a specific demographic, such as Asian American pre-retirees, can enhance rapport, conversion rates, and client satisfaction.

2. Marketing Alignment: Clear and targeted messaging on all platforms, especially the website, is crucial for attracting the ideal client base.

3. Sales Funnel Efficiency: Introducing qualifying steps in the sales process helps filter leads, ensuring time is invested in high-potential clients.

4. Scalability Considerations: Balancing profitable fee structures with scalable business models is essential for reaching ambitious revenue goals.

5. Continuous Improvement: Regularly revisiting and refining marketing strategies based on client data and business performance fosters sustained growth.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "The big one is the niche that I'm marketing towards, which is Asian Americans. It's definitely considered affinity based marketing. You know, is it the right direction?"
  — Jason Koh [00:49]

• "There's going to be more family planning like making sure when they're buying a home it's big enough so eventually the parents can move in with them."
  — Jason Koh [02:41]

• "I've made a deliberate decision to really double down on marketing towards Asian Americans."
  — Jason Koh [09:52]

• "If you get more clear and it's just what I'm talking about, how it ripples through your entire practice, it starts to feel more viable to do more than four plans at a time or more than you're doing right now annually."
  — Taylor Schulte [28:04]

• "We're asking you to get clear on who we're talking to here. So we gotta get clear on that because it's gonna ripple through every single communication, your sales process, your marketing, your YouTube videos, everything."
  — Taylor Schulte [26:27]

• "The clearer you can get on that niche will allow you to then also qualify, which will then filter down also to your YouTube videos."
  — Kendra Wright [36:46]

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Conclusion

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the strategic decision between narrowing and broadening a marketing niche for financial advisors. Through Jason Koh's real-world challenges and the expert advice of Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright, listeners gain valuable insights into optimizing their marketing strategies, refining their target demographics, and implementing efficient sales processes to achieve sustainable business growth.

For further resources discussed in this episode, including the "Ultimate Sales Process" course and additional episodes on qualifying leads, listeners are encouraged to visit the show notes linked in the podcast description.

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This summary captures the essence of the episode "Advice Line: Should You Narrow Or Broaden Your Marketing Niche? (Jason Co)" by Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright, providing a structured overview of the key discussions, insights, and actionable strategies shared during the conversation.

Transcript

[Kendra]

Hey, it's Kendra and Taylor and we're here to make advisor marketing simple. Today's guest is Jason from Coplanning Financial. He's been running his firm for four years. He's on track for 100 grand in revenue this year and he wants to grow to $500,000 in five years. Welcome to Advisory Marketing Made Simple. Today we are having a conversation with Jason. Jason, could you just quickly introduce us with your name, your firm and your location?

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Jason Koh]

My name is Jason Koh. I'm a certified financial planner. I have a practice called Co Planning Financial which I've started for almost four years ago. And I am based in Kansas City, Kansas.

[Kendra]

And what's a big question you want to dive into today with Taylor and I?

[Jason Koh]

The big one is the niche that I'm marketing towards, which is Asian Americans. It's definitely considered affinity based marketing. You know, is it the right direction? Should I work? Because I have found that it's a more price sensitive client group. So I wanted to see if I should I broaden my reach and work with a broad demographic or stay my path.

[Kendra]

So tell us a little bit more about your ideal client and you know, how that specific niche, how is their retiree concerns as a Asian American different than like a standard pre retiree?

[Jason Koh]

So a lot of the people who hire me now have never worked with a financial advisor and that's something I'm very proud of because I'm broadening the reach of our industry to serve the underserved. But the some of the differences that they have, I would say is some, literally it's the language skill set, they have a language barrier. And the other one is they, they fear being misunderstood and that may be due to the language barrier, but more so due to the cultural differences. I've always found myself one of the few minorities in my past jobs and I definitely understand the difference of talking to someone who comes from a similar background. The rapport is instant. Whereas somebody who may look different than you comes from some different backgrounds. You know, it just requires a bit more work to find areas of similarities.

[Kendra]

When we think about those cultural differences with that demographic and specifically how it relates to financial planning, how does your process as a planner differ with someone who's Asian American? How do you relate to them? Like what are those big fears they have that are cultural that might be different?

[Jason Koh]

There's going to be more family planning like making sure when they're buying a home it's big enough so eventually the parents can move in with them. I think family's a lot. Not necessarily closer, but more engaged even later in life. So there's a lot more planning because of that. Parents of young children are often thinking about how can I provide for financial gifts when my kid is out of college to kind of get them started on life? There's usually a higher desire to pay for college fully and there's a big investment in the next generation for sure. But also sometimes they do have to worry about their parents. One group within my demographic that often reach out to me are children of Asian immigrants who are hoping that I could talk some sense into their parents who are making a lot of the common mistakes we see investors make, which is being too speculative in investments or being too conservative, having everything in cash or just buying inappropriate insurance products. And to work with that kind of group, you sometimes need to have the language skill set, but more so have to have the patience to deal with this demographic. And based on the way that I look, based on my background as an immigrant, they feel that I would have a greater level of patience and understanding to work with this demographic. Right. But most of my clients now are pre retirees or fire chasers and a lot of them just appreciate being able to talk to someone and not need to explain why they think the way that they do about money. The most common reason I hear from my clients when I ask them certain questions like why do you want to prepay your mortgage so early? Why are you looking to buy such a big home? The most common reason is I'm Asian and they can tell that to me, knowing that I fully understand what that means.

[Kendra]

This is really helpful context and I hope the people listening to the show right now, if you've listened to prior episodes, we did a conversation where an advisor, I'm like blanking right now. They had a pickleball element in their ideal client. And Taylor and I bring up that your ideal clients could be interested in pickleball. But are there pain points? And what I think is really fascinating about this is when I did like some quick research and looked at how does Asian culture impact financial planning. It was exactly what you said. Multi generational financial support. So you're going to be paying for your retirement and taking care of your parents. There's cultural things about taking care of your parents, parents, things like that. Also if they're very conservative and they've saved a lot like minimizing RMDs. So you might have these larger elements of savings or all in cash. So the reason why that's important is because when we think about Your niche. There are pain points related to finance based off that segment of people. So that's really helpful when you look at your current clients, how many of those are Asian American? You know, pre retirees? What percentage?

[Jason Koh]

I would say 80% are 55 or younger. So they would be either pre retirees or fire chasers as I call them.

[Kendra]

Are they all Asian Americans or do you have a variety at all?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah. So I have recently gone through a big transformation in my marketing from having basically no leads coming in and having one or two maybe coming every few months. From online gen services like XYPN, Fiona Network, Nafa, to recently with my YouTube kicking off after three years of consistency, I've had 55 scheduled calls with prospects in the last four months. 95+ are Asian American. My website is pretty upfront about the fact that I want to serve Asian Americans. I want to create a safe space for them where they can feel authentic and not feel judged. So I think that does skew it. And that is one of my question, should I scale down, tone down the messaging so I talk more about how I serve people to help them transition best into retirement, Minimize taxes in retirement, because every demographic has that problem. But for me, I focus on working with this group because I think it's very fulfilling work for me. Again, most of them have never worked with a financial advisor, but because they find me and they feel comfortable with me because of similar backgrounds, levels of cultural understanding, they finally feel comfortable enough to reach out and seek for help.

[Taylor]

Jason, I mean, you're building a business here and you get to design the business however you want. I mean, it needs to be viable. Of course. But if I were to ask you, would you prefer to have 100 Asian American families that you're helping transition into retirement or navigate retirement, or 100, just anybody's transition to retirement? Like if you had to choose one or the other, what would it be?

[Jason Koh]

That question has an assumption that both are equally profitable, right?

[Taylor]

Yeah, let's assume that both are equally profitable, because I would argue that they are. And I know you have some concerns about that, which we can get to. But let's say both are equally profitable, viable. I could work with a hundred, just diverse group of retirees or a hundred Asian American families.

[Jason Koh]

Like it would be Asian Americans.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Jason Koh]

Because the rapport is instant. I mean, within five minutes of us chatting, even though we've just met over the Internet, I mean, we're, we're chatting and laughing already. So the, the rapport is, is instant. You know, I look forward to Calls and meetings from my clients.

[Taylor]

Awesome.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah. So the big question and. And the reason I'm even thinking about all this is profitability and the ability to scale and build a practice.

[Taylor]

Maybe just before we get to profit, because I do want to get there, because I know you have questions about it. I'm just curious. You have this passion, you have this connection. I don't know enough about your target demo here, but, you know, we don't have the most diverse profession here, so I can imagine an Asian American family meeting. You coming across. You, like, you can build rapport very quickly. You can speak their language, you know them, their family, their pain points. So you do have an upper hand here. I'm. I'm curious. Like, when I come to your website, there's nothing here on the homepage that mentions anything about retirement, Transitioning to retirement, navigating retirement, lowering taxes. It doesn't even say Asian American families. It certainly has. You know, you've got the. The website that gets translated into two different languages, and you've got Mandarin Cantonese up in the menu. So, like, I can see that Asian tie to the site, but it still feels like you're afraid to go all in on this. Is that. Is that fair to say?

[Jason Koh]

No, no, actually, I. I worked with a web designer, and he happens to be white, and he chose all the photos, all the stock photos. And I pointed out, like, these are every single one. You know, it's. It's an Asian American family, and it's like, is. Is that okay? He's like, absolutely. You know, and we've made a deliberate decision to. To really double down on. On marketing towards Asian Americans.

[Taylor]

You've hit the nail on the head there, that the graphic designer did a great job. But I'm just curious, why doesn't it say, like, we help Asian American families transition into retirement, or we help Asian American families navigate retirement and lower taxes? It's still this, like, your family deserves the best. Like, just kind of this, like, very broad. So is there this fear of, like, I only want to work with Asian American families that are either about to go into retirement or retire? Are you worried about that?

[Jason Koh]

Before, when I was going through the redesign, which happened about two years ago, I was afraid of that. I know I wanted to work with Asian Americans, but I wasn't sure who within my demographic I wanted to work with because I had so much trouble with the 65 or older retirees not moving forward. And I have data to back that up. But this recent trend where I'm working with pre retirees helping to transition into retirement. That has emerged as my YouTube has gained traction.

[Taylor]

Okay, what was the challenge with people over age 65?

[Jason Koh]

Irrationally fee conscious to the point where they will cost themselves a lot more money, but they would still rather choose to do things themselves instead of hire a professional. Like, at this point, I've come to accept their fear of paying for advice or professional guidance of any kind is irrational. And a lot of it is due to the fact that many of them immigrated or grew up in times of scarcity. And that mindset is very hard to move away from. I mean, even my own mother wouldn't hire me if I wasn't initially doing all this work for free and then finally only bill her a hundred bucks a month.

[Taylor]

Okay. And so you feel like if I can educate them earlier on in their, maybe in their 50s ahead of retirement, then they can see and feel the value and I can keep them and retain them as a client throughout retirement. Is that fair?

[Jason Koh]

You're giving me more credit than I deserve because I, I did my case studies on YouTube and then naturally found pre retirees kind of finding me okay. And find they are also willing to pay for advice as well.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Jason Koh]

So I work with anybody who's willing to pay earlier.

[Taylor]

I, I get that. I think, I mean, of course we got to get more narrow than like anybody who's willing to pay. And I think there is a difference between like over 65, retired, you need help or you're in your 50s, you're starting to think about retirement. I specialize in helping Asian American families that transition. And to Kendra's kind of question, neen from earlier, there's probably a little bit more pain points there that we could identify. It's not just like help me transition to retirement might be something specific to this demographic that you can really hit on as an Asian American yourself, where you can kind of speak that language and really I kind of strike a chord with those people. But I still think like, if it's going to be pre retirees, like, your website looks beautiful. Beautiful. But front and center should say like, we help Asian American families transition to retirement and blah, blah, blah. So cleaning up some of that language I think will be helpful and that will translate of your marketing and messaging as well.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah. And that, that technical niche of pre retiree planning, that's, that's something that's recently emerged. But yeah, I, I'm going through a website design iteration now partly to put all my fee structure, basically my sales deck onto my website. So it kind of filters out a lot of the prospects that they'll end up converting.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, so I'll definitely consider. I'll definitely do that.

[Taylor]

I know that. Jason, you want to get into the fee conversation here and profitability, so I've got some questions and comments there, but, yeah. Kendra, what. What else do you want to understand?

[Kendra]

Yeah, so one of the. One of the big things just, like, glaring right in front of my face is what Taylor touched on, which is when I look at your website, it. It has pictures that reflect the ideal client you want to serve, but the copy just sounds like every other planner to me. So if I were rewriting your website header, it might sound something like this, because I want to give you an idea clearly communicating your niche looks like. So the header might say something like, as an Asian American, you saved for years. Now let's make sure it lasts. And then below that, we would speak to three of their pain points, and it could say something like this. We help Asian Americans balance retirement planning with caring for parents, minimizing their taxes on large savings, and creating generational wealth. Let's create a plan that honors your values and supports your family's future. So it's kind of like a longer version, but really it's, you know, what are those kind of core big three pain points? And you can see we're speaking to not only Asian Americans. We're speaking to retirement, and we're speaking to the cultural differences that they struggle with, so they know you understand them. So right now, your website header says your family deserves the best possible financial advice fee only financial planning for individuals and families. Can you see the disparity there?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, and I'll. And I'll kind of affirm what you guys are telling me, too, because my. My demographic, although they would have a preference to work with someone who comes from a similar background, can communicate easily. They'll always choose someone who is, you know, technically better or not all the time, but, like, mostly lower cost, too. So the fact that I am Asian American opens my door. Opens the door to. To start a chat with them, but I have to be a good value and bring a lot of technical expertise in order to close the deal. So making the copy more technical, maybe even more like transactional in nature, is. Is actually helpful, I think.

[Taylor]

So. One more thing before we get to fees and some of these challenges you're having around those conversations, because maybe it is a demographic thing where they struggle to pay real money to hire a real expert. You do have case studies here. But one thing I'm thinking About in particular for you, because you are having this. This struggle is maybe instead of a hypothetical case study, maybe it's a real life case study.

[Jason Koh]

Oh, they all are.

[Taylor]

Oh, they are. Sorry.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, they all are. It's been a series I've been making for the past five videos where I actually talk about real client situations and kind of craft a story of what was the situation, why couldn't they solve it themselves? How did I come in and help, and what was the result of my guidance?

[Taylor]

Okay, so I'm not going to click on it right now to distract. I don't want to distract myself. But I guess I'm getting at, like, an actual client on video.

[Jason Koh]

Uh, no, I. I have not done that yet. But I. I do kind of take away the name, but use the data. Like, how much money they have, how much spending they have, how much longer they intend to work and. And talk about everything.

[Taylor]

What I'm getting at here is that because your target demographic might struggle with paying real money for a real expert, it could be really beneficial to have an actual client video. So two firms come to mind. One is my. My buddy James Canola at Root Financial. Go to their website. You can see actual videos interviewing actual clients. So those clients, you can see them. You can hear them. And then Dana Onspach at Sensible Money does something similar on her site as well. So what I'm thinking is, like, if I'm an Asian American thinking about retirement, I stumbled across your site through one of your marketing activities. You know, the header is something that really speaks to me. So Kendra gave you some good examples. And then there's literally a video of a couple is an Asian American with similar pain points that's saying all these great things about co planning Financial and Jason and how much they've helped. Like, it might start to warm them up a little bit more to this idea that there is value in hiring somebody. So it's not hypothetical. It's like an actual person that looks just like me with the same exact pain points. Like. Yes. Like, now the dots are starting to get connected.

[Jason Koh]

Okay.

[Taylor]

So it could be a way to just level up things. I know there's a lot more that goes into that, you know, from a compliance standpoint and reaching out to clients and making sure they're comfortable with it all. Like, there's more to think through there, but I think it could be really powerful, especially for your. Your niche.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah. So Kansas doesn't allow testimonials. Is that still a concern or is that still doable?

[Taylor]

Yeah, I'm not a compliance expert. I know state registration stuff can get, can get wonky. It's really unfortunate. So I, you have to navigate that on your own and if that's a limitation, you know that's a bummer. I still think you can get creative and it looks like on your site I see this, this video down there, early retirement case study, married couple in their 40s. So you're already kind of getting creative in some other ways where it's not an actual testimonial. So just some, some things to think through there. Yeah. Did you have a follow up question?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah. So I, I would add my, my marketing is actually bringing in more leads than I can handle at the moment which, which I never expected to be but so my, my channel challenge is again the direction and kind of working with this demographic. They almost always want a one time plan because it's perceived, I think it's because it's perceived to be lower cost than aum. There's a high aversion to handing over assets and I charge enough for a one time plan where it is profitable now and I'm learning how to do it faster and better. But still I think it's difficult to scale that business up to meet my goals. I have a subscription based engagement that's also gaining popularity. 375 per month and they kind of have me on retainer to answer questions and take them through a service calendar that's very tax heavy and planning heavy. But without bringing any assets over, I feel like eventually once our work is done, you know they're, they're not going to be as sticky. So. Yeah, that's why I have some doubt about, about this group.

[Taylor]

Yeah, there's some good stuff here. So in the notes you get 5 to 10 calls per week where you went from like struggling to get any calls and now you've got five to ten calls per week and it's taking up a lot of time and you're not closing a lot of them. So my first question is, let's say you have 10 calls in a week. How many of those 10 people are between age 50 and 60? Asian Americans and have the ability to pay your desired fee? What percentage?

[Jason Koh]

I would say half are kind of pre retiree phase and half are still accumulation phase. But almost all of them are ideal prospects in many ways because they either have over $400,000 in household income, 1 million liquid net worth or a combination of both.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Jason Koh]

And I've taken most of the 50 plus prospects through my sales cycle and I've converted about 20% of them. Some no shows, but I've converted about 20% of Them.

[Taylor]

What percentage of these 10 people in a given week are Asian American?

[Jason Koh]

10 out of 10.

[Taylor]

Okay, awesome. So, okay.

[Jason Koh]

Or, or mixed race couple. Okay, so.

[Taylor]

So we're getting there. One thing I'd push back on is, you know, you said almost all of them are ideal prospects, but I'm going to argue that if they're under age 50, even if they have the income, they're not ideal prospects. If we're going to really get serious about this niche and really grow our practice and build processes around this practice. A 40 year old with $400,000 is not your ideal client. We're focused on between ages and 50 and 60, or between 50 and 65, however you want to arrange it. They're thinking about retiring, transitioning to retirement. Making work optional is one of my favorite phrases that really registers with people. Like maybe Asian Americans love what they do and they don't have this desire to like hit the quit button, but they want to know they have the ability to quit. So, you know, helping Asian Americans make work optional. But so I think to start, we gotta start to push to the side people that really aren't a good fit. I know it, it's hard because you want the revenue to come in, but I promise you, by getting more clear and niching down, you're gonna have more success. Cause you're gonna be able to design your sales process, your fee schedule around that particular person. You just can't do it. For someone in their 30s and someone in their 50s, it's just, it's really, really challenging. So now imagine if instead of 10 calls per week, because one of your, your questions was like, gosh, I've got, you know, 10 calls per week and they take an hour, hour and a half of my time. You know, I can't keep doing this. And not many of them are closing. So now imagine if it's just five, maybe it's four. Let's say it's four Asian American families over age 50. And then you better qualify them through your funnel where you know that they're potentially willing to pay your fee. They just want to learn more and see the value. So we've gone from 10 to four and now maybe three out of those four end up closing because we've really tightened up that funnel. So more to think through and talk through there. But talk to us about some of the fee sensitivity as it stands right now and what you're kind of questioning around like, is this truly viable? Because I think without even knowing much about this, this niche, like, of course it's viable. Like, these people need help. I attract, because through the podcast there's a lot of DIYers. So I attract your traditional boglehead engineer folks who have never worked with an advisor before. They've never even thought about paying somebody 20 or $30,000 per year, but they end up hiring us. And that's because we've designed the funnel, the marketing, the messaging, everything around that ideal person so when you can communicate that value properly, you can convert them. Now I can't convert a hundred percent of my podcast audience. I only need, you know, a fraction. I only need a tiny little percentage of those people to convert. So as you build up your audience and it gets bigger and bigger, you only need a tiny percentage of those people to end up hiring you. But yeah, tell us a little bit more about some of the fee sensitivity and the conversations you're running into.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, and I've had other Chinese financial advisors, some have built successful practices, told me it's impossible to work with this demographic. And I've come To learn the 65 plus really is impossible. I've had 20 households that I've had conversations with where it's the children of the immigrant asking me to help their parents. Some, they're not looking for the help, some are looking for the help and ask their children to kind of find, find me. But even then it's very difficult to move forward. I've only had one out of those 20 actually become clients. And it's because the daughter is paying for everything for the one time plan for the ongoing subscription. But even then they are keeping everything kind of at Robinhood because they got like a 2% bonus and they're kind of having me kind of do a lot of tax planning and retirement income distribution planning. So, so that, that demographic, it's, it's, it's impossible to build a practice on challenged and not accepted. And the 55 plus or 55 or younger though, more, more willing to pay. Again, a lot of it is one time plans, which I do find myself enjoying to do, but I don't think it's, it's scalable over the long term.

[Taylor]

What, what's the fee that you're asking these folks to pay?

[Jason Koh]

5,900 for, for a one time engagement that focuses on retirement planning, tax planning and investment planning.

[Taylor]

Okay.

[Jason Koh]

And it takes anywhere between about six meetings now. I'm more efficient now. I track my time. It takes about 25 hours to complete. So profitability wise, it's good for my stage and my practice, but I don't know if it's something I'll sustain over the long term. I do think it's great for learning, so I want to keep it for newer advisors that I bring on. So past 5,900, I kind of keep testing the waters. It seems like past 5,900, it's difficult for them to even consider the value because the price point just has passed what they're willing to even consider. I know I'm on the higher range of things on one time plans because the people who told me they have shopped around, they know I'm on the higher end of things, but they do feel like if I spend so much more time with them, it may be worth it because nothing is cookie cutter with me. Me, Aum is difficult to build. So the next best thing is a subscription so far of 375 per month. And then I also includes up to $450,000 of management for free as part of that subscription to kind of hopefully get them to tip their toe with Aum with me. And that works with some clients. But for this recent wave of clients that are signing up for the subscription, it feels like most of them are looking for kind of a amortized cost to the one time plan. And I think the expectation is maybe we work together for a couple of years, get them through this tough stage in life, automate a lot of things, and then maybe they'll drop off.

[Taylor]

Okay, I have some comments and questions. Kendra, anything on your end?

[Kendra]

I'm good right now. I think the kind of big question that we're really trying to work through here is just like, should he lean into Asian Americans more or lean out? I kind of feel like that's what we're really trying to clarify here. And it sounds like understanding how do we get a fee structure that's profitable that works? Because if you do go wider, let's say, then you're going to actually start competing with a lot of other advisors. So that's kind of the concern. And I know that the price sensitivity doesn't just disappear in Taylor's world. Right. Like Taylor has similar price sensitivities too. So I think Taylor, if you have any thoughts around the price sensitivity piece or. I just think we're. One of the big questions is, is this something to lean into this niche or lean out? And that's not really quite clear to me based off what we've discussed here.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I'M not the owner of this business. I'm not making this decision. But like, from the outside looking in, say, you should absolutely lean in more to this niche. Like, it, to me, it doesn't feel like you're going all in. Yes, the design, the branding imagery, all that. But like, before anything else works, Jason, you're gonna have to get clear on who we're talking to here. So you keep mentioning, like under age 50 or under age 55. Like, that's still too broad. So are we talking age 45 to 55? Are we talking age 50 to 60? Like, we gotta get clear on that because that's gonna, that's gonna, you know, ripple through every, all your communication, your sales process, your marketing, your YouTube videos, everything. So we can't just say under age 55. So, you know, I help Asian American families between ages 50 and 60 or over age 50 or, you know, we got to get clear on that. I help them 1, 2, and 3. So that's still not clear to me. So that's. I think I'd put that ball in your court as an action item to work through with your web person. Go hire a story brand consultant or read the story brand, whatever to, like, get clear on. I help these people do 1, 2, and 3. And then from there, once you really understand that target market, you know, maybe $5900 is the right fee. I like that you're on the higher end. You know, you probably don't want to be the low cost provider here, and you've proven that people are willing to pay it. You might have to structure your business a little bit differently because of your demographic. I don't know that for sure. If that is true and what you're saying is true, maybe your business model does look a little bit different. Like, Jason, what would it look like to do, you know, your goal was $500,000 in revenue in five years? What would it look like to do 81 time plans at six grand?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, that would be, that would be torturous.

[Taylor]

And why would it be torturous?

[Jason Koh]

I mean, I can't handle it. I can. I, I know I can handle at most four one time plans at a time now, and they take anywhere between two to three months to complete.

[Taylor]

So what if you leveraged your time better? What if you got more process oriented? Because if you're only. If you're building the same type of plan for the same person. Right. So everybody who walks through my door, everybody who hires us or goes through our sales process, we're doing the same exact thing for them. We're not being, we're not getting distracted by a 30 year old family, right? So everybody who walks to our door goes through the same exact process which allows us to systematize it. So if you get more clear and it's just what I'm talking about, how it ripples through your entire practice, if you're really clear on Asian America is between ages 50 and 60 who are going to retire in the next three years and have these three pain points. Now my, my financial plan, my one time plan that I'm building is more or less kind of templated and systematized because it's the same for every single person. Yes, it's unique, there's unique situations, but that's why it doesn't take two hours, it might take 12 and a half hours. So let's say you cut your time in half by getting clear and systematizing. Now instead of 25 hours, it takes you 12 and a half hours or 15 hours. And then on top of that I can hire a part time CFP in the background for I don't know what that might cost. But I'm going to leverage my time because I can't afford to do everything in this business. So I'm going to leverage my time by hiring somebody behind the scenes to help with data entry to help build, you know, version one of the plan. So I'm not spending 15 hours on my end. To me it starts to feel like it is more viable to do 80 plans and generate, you know, $500,000. Maybe it's not 80, maybe it's 50 plans. And then, and I'm just spitballing here again, like you have to design a little business model. Maybe it is 50 plans per year. And hey, if you want ongoing help, here's what that looks like. You don't need it though because you have a viable one time plan practice. I don't know how you know, low cost asset management would sell. Like hey, I'll manage your money for 30 basis points which is competitive with, with Vanguard. That's all you're going to get is just asset management. Like I'm not going to do any tax buying or anything else but pay me six grand for a plan. If you want some asset management, I'll do it for 30 basis points, which is competitive. And maybe there's another tier if you want AUM plus ongoing planning. So I'm just throwing out some ideas here because I just don't buy the fact that like it's impossible to build a business around this niche. I'm really attracted to your niche. I think it's like I said, there's a challenge to be solved here, which is kind of fun for me. I just don't know the exact answer. So you're gonna have to think through some of this stuff. But like, how does that start to feel if we get more systematized, process oriented, better leverage our time, we're more clear in our target demographic. Does it start to feel more viable to do more than four plans at a time or more than you're doing right now annually?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, for, for me it's, it's something I don't totally know yet if which direction I want to go. Do I want to work with the accumulators or do I want to work with the around 55 year old? And if I do that, that means I'll have to be really clear with the messaging on my left side and like the age range that I'm looking to work with or maybe be more specific, but like five years away from retirement, less than five years away from retirement and just be okay with not being able to serve everybody. Because the thought of not being able to work with the 30 to 40 year olds that I get along with very well and you know, they make half a million dollars as a whole household kind of saddens me because that work excites me too. But that's why I'm having this call.

[Taylor]

Yeah, the decision you have to make, It's a decision I had to make, you know, and you know, I had to transition those 30 year old. I mean I, I had 30 year old clients with millions of dollars because they had giant exits. You know, there would be a dream client for an advisor focused on young professionals. And I had to go through that hard exercise of transitioning them out. And when they do reach out to me, refer them to another advisor and really stay focused on my ideal client. So it is a really hard business decision for you to make. You can continue the way you're going and you'll continue to probably have just some business challenges and you'll run into growth barriers and you'll have problems like 10 calls per week taking up too much time. Like you're going to have those challenges or you make the hard decision to get really, really clear on who you're talking to. And you know, we had this conversation with another guest too, Kendra. I actually think it's the same the, the pickleball advisor.

[Kendra]

Oh, Thomas Cook.

[Taylor]

Yeah, yeah. Where, yeah. Where he felt the Same. He said something very similar to you, Jason. And I said, well, you know, you have this amazing YouTube channel and you're educating people at large. Right. Not everybody who watches your video is going to reach out to you. So these 30 year olds and 40 year olds that are interested in hearing from you, getting financial advice, retirement advice, like they can get that through your content. You don't necessarily have to work with those people. So Jason, there's other ways to make an impact on their lives other than what working with them professionally. You know that again, that's a, that's a decision for you to make.

[Jason Koh]

And I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to continue on this path that I'm on so I can start to see the emerging trends of okay, who are the better clients? You know, maybe the subscription clients are more sticky than I, than I thought of them to be. You know, maybe people are. As my YouTube video gets more reach, maybe I am getting more AUM based engagements. Yeah. And then, and then once I start to see that trend, really double down on the direction that I find.

[Taylor]

Yeah, I mean that's a decision for you to make. Yeah, yeah. I think it might be hard to start to see those trends if you're still casting that wide net. 50% are over age 50 and 50% are under age 50. And I still have this like divided practice, you know, and I went through that journey where I had a few hundred thousand dollars of revenue. Very divided practice. Like you can have success and build a practice like that, but then it just starts to get chaotic and really challenging to scale and grow from there.

[Jason Koh]

So yeah, I think I said that because everything I thought I knew about how to serve my demographic turned out to be wrong. So I want to kind of see some of the data and then make a more informed decision because I thought from the get go four years ago, okay, working with 65 plus retirees who have just too much money in cash is just easy because it's fresh cash. I don't have to worry about legacy assets. Put him in a model portfolio, charge 1% turn out to be impossible. Right. And the difficult part of what I'm trying to do is no advisor, even Asian American advisors are choosing to do what I'm trying to do. So there's nobody I can consult on this. So I am my own consultant. I have to learn from my own experience here.

[Taylor]

Yeah.

[Kendra]

Something that's kind of unique here too is this call has two questions. One, which is should you lean into or out of this niche. And the second one is, now I have too many leads. How do I qualify them? And Taylor made a point that I think maybe some listeners didn't hear, which is this decision on the niche actually really ripples through everything. So if we were to start qualifying more of these leads, a few ways we can do that. One is the messaging on your website. Like, we do our best work with Asian Americans who either have, you know, this amount of income or this amount of assets or these kinds of careers. You know, we've had a couple conversations around that on the show, or something like your call booking form, you can have a few qualifying pieces on there, like age, assets, income, things like that. So these questions are interconnected. And I know that it is really scary. I had a very similar journey in my experience, similar to Taylor. I used to work with financial brands and financial firms, and now I've just went straight into RIAs. And the clearer I get, the better I get at what I do. And I know this isn't the same niche, but I know for, for us, like, I can charge the same clientele a higher premium because I'm so advanced. And like, I understand all these things across firms that I can charge more. And so my business is very different than my competitors. And I do think the element around pricing is very important. But the clearer you can get on that niche will allow you to then also qualify, which will then filter down also to your YouTube videos. Because then if we know you like to work with, you know, Asian Americans within this age demographic, pre retirees, then we're going to actually refine the video so it actually continues to send you better quality clients. So you can see how the ideal client flows down through the prospect form, flows down to the content, which is kind of like a circle. And it sends the content, sends the leads back to you. So this is a pivot point. And you don't have to get it perfect, but getting it more clear and then going back to the website, to me, your website does not leverage. One of your key, biggest competitive advantages is if you are doing Asian Americans, you know, pre retiree planning. That website has a ton of opportunity above the fold. And then also the other thing I would add is just from a messaging standpoint, I love to say, here are the biggest questions, the biggest financial questions we answer for Asian Americans. And then I put their questions, top 10 questions in their language, the way they say it, not the way that an advisor speaks it. And like, you can start to really dial that messaging in. Because to me, the website's a huge opportunity as well.

[Taylor]

But.

[Kendra]

But I think that doesn't matter as much as getting clearer on the avatar because like a wave, it's going to ripple out into everything else.

[Taylor]

Jason, one final thing here that I do want to make sure we hit on. Are you familiar with the landing page on my website for our sales process, the free retirement assessment process?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, I'm familiar because when I DIY my own website at first I basically just copied it.

[Taylor]

Okay. Because one of the things you had mentioned is like, I have a consistent stream of leads, five to 10 calls per week. They take up a lot of time. So pushing all this niche stuff, you know, all the stuff we've talked about at this point to the side for a minute, you still have this problem with like too many phone calls, spending too much time with these people. Not all the right fit, not closing. This is when you can start to add some friction to this process. So right now you make it really easy for someone just to go to your calendar and schedule a 45 minute meeting. So, you know, maybe you're at this stage where you have a dedicated landing page. So I've got this meet with us button. It takes me to a landing page. It tells me just a little bit more about who you, who you help, how you help them, what you do, what your sales process consists of. It's three steps, you know, however you want to write that out and then you have a form. So if you go to my site, you'll see we use type form and we take them through a little bit of a journey and make them answer some questions before we present them with the calendly calendar. So you have to be careful because if you add too much friction at once, your five to 10 calls might go down to one call. So I would just add a little bit of friction which just could be starting with a form. I'm going to have them answer some questions. You can build conditional logic into those questions. So if they don't meet certain criteria, reroute them to a landing page and say, hey, I'm not the expert, I don't have the expertise to help. But here are three advisors I know that that can help you. So you start to filter people out a little bit more and instead of 10 calls per week, maybe you get it down to 5 calls per week. But they're like perfect fit clients. They've gone through that, that extra step. Second to that, you know, when I go to your calendly, it's a 45 minute good test fit. But it also says it's a 30 minute phone call. So there's a, a disconnect there between 45 minute meeting and a 30 minute phone call in the URL. It also tells me it's a, it's a test, a 30 minute test. So just a few small things to, to clean there. But you're telling me in your notes that you spend one to one and a half hours. So I've got like all these different time ranges here. If we're going to tell the prospect that it's a 45 minute call or 30 minute call, whatever you land on there, we should keep it to that, that time limit. And so our initial meeting, our initial discovery call is 45 minutes as well, but within the first 10, 15 minutes. Well, actually Tyler takes these calls and what he says is at the very beginning of the phone call, he said, or it's a zoom meeting, he says we're going to spend the first 15 minutes together determining if there's potentially a good mutual fit to work together. If there's not, then I'll provide some resources for you to get help somewhere else. So within those first 15 minutes, it's just feeling each other out, like, do we have the expertise to help this person? Do they want our help? You know, are they willing to pay for our help? And if they're not, he'll end the call within that first 15 minutes. So he didn't just wait 45 minutes of time, if there is a good potential fit after that first 15 minutes to say, okay, I think there's a potential mutual fit. Do you agree? Yes, I agree. Let's spend the next 30 minutes telling you a little bit more about our firm, our processes, learning more about you. So he has that option to kind of pull the ripcore 15 minutes in. Also as it gets to the 30 minute mark, I'll say, hey, we've got about 15 minutes left. I've got a few more questions I want to make sure we get through. So reminding the prospect that we are in a time limit here, that I'm very sensitive to your time and mine as well, that you're controlling the meeting. It's not getting out of, out of hand. You're not letting them ask a zillion questions. So I would really think about how can I keep these phone calls to that time limit. Because spending an hour and a half with total strangers who not many of them are hiring you, you know, is a giant inefficiency in your practice.

[Jason Koh]

Yeah. Time to look up the ultimate sales course again.

[Taylor]

Yes. Yep. All refreshed. I know. Yeah. You're one of the original purchases of the ultimate sales process course. And like I mentioned, it's all refreshed now. New lessons, everything. So I would definitely go back through that again and start to apply some of those things. And I think it'll tighten up your funnel there, add a little bit more friction, and you'll end up with some higher quality prospects as your YouTube continues to grow.

[Kendra]

Mm. Taylor, what's. What's a good example of maybe a question an advisor could ask in those first 15 minutes to understand more clearly if it's a good fit for them?

[Taylor]

Yeah, I mean, it can be as simple as, you know, what's your age or what's your age range? And so for us, if they click the button that says under age 50, they immediately the form closes down. They get rerouted to a landing page that says, hey, we don't have the expertise to help, but here's another advisor or some resources to find somebody who specializes in people. Just like, so for us, like, if, if they click that button, like, we're, we're out again. Jason has to decide whether he wants to draw that hard of a line in the sand. That's one question. The other is clearly presenting our fees. These are our fees. This is the value we provide. Like, are you, are you okay with this fee schedule? You know, you want to learn more, but like, are you okay with these fees? And if they say no again, reroutes them. Here's some lower cost options.

[Kendra]

So this is on your form, not the form. Yeah, Gotcha. Okay, cool. That makes sense. Say someone does answer those questions in a way that puts them through to schedule a call on your calendar. What's an example of maybe, you know, one or two questions you'd ask in those first 15 minutes to help determine if you guys are a mutual good fit?

[Taylor]

Yeah, there you're pretty generic intro call type questions. I mean, number one is just kind of like, you know, tell me, tell me about why you reached out. Like, why are you searching for a financial advisor? And what Tyler will do is connect their answer live on the call to what they shared in the form. So if there's a disconnect there, he's able to see, well, you said this on the form, but now telling me this, so then he might dig in a little bit more there. One of my favorite questions is, you know, Jason, have you determined that you definitely want to hire a financial advisor and right now you're just trying to find the best fit or are you still on the fence about hiring a financial advisor and just reaching out to people and, and trying to, you know, figure out if you want to hire somebody? And what we're looking for is like, no, Jason, I've determined, like, I need help. I know I need a financial advisor. I'm reaching out to five firms or three firms to try and find the best fit for me. That's the answer we're looking for. If they're like, yeah, I don't know. I've listened to Taylor's podcast forever and I've managed my own money. I don't know if I really need an advisor, but I just thought I'd reach out and, like, learn a little bit more. That's when Tyler would probably pull the rip cord and say, you know, we're not the right fit. We don't have the right expertise. I'm sure he would ask a few more clarifying questions, but it's one of my favorite questions to get down to, you know, are you really serious about this or are you just, you know, still feeling things out?

[Kendra]

I love that. Thanks for adding that extra context and giving not only Jason, but advisor listening a little bit of insight into what that looks like practically. So, Jason, we've thrown a lot at you today. What do you feel like you may do differently after this conversation or what were a few of your big takeaways?

[Jason Koh]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to go through a design iteration on my website. I already made a decision to include my fees on there, which I haven't done before, in fear of losing potential calls. But I'm doing that now, and I think I'm going to talk to my web designer about making the messaging even stronger. And another takeaway is, you know, when you guys first presented the idea of really honing in with the pre retiree crowd, you know, I mentioned the thought of not working with the, like the fire chasers, for example, kind of saddens me. But when Taylor brought up the example of here are three advisors that would be a better fit for you. Like, I can think of three that I could mention and the idea that I could be helping, you know, other Asian advisors kind of grow their practice by referring out leads like that. That sounds really appealing to me as well. Yeah, yeah, definitely. The website adding more friction there is, is a big first step for me.

[Kendra]

And one quick thing there, you know, the ability to refer out to other advisors to that segment of the market, that just isn't a good fit for you. One of our clients, we do it with the form. So they go through the form and the way that if they do not meet the correct criteria, we actually redirect them to a page with the resources. So their advisors are not getting on the call with clients who are under qualified. But we are giving them really great resources if they're not a good fit. So that's why you can also automate that process so you don't have to be doing one to one on the, you know, pointing them to other advisors who could be a good fit. So. All right, Jason, we've had a pretty wide conversation here today. Based off what we said, here are some of the next steps that Taylor and I outlined for you. And I think the order is also very important. So first you've got to get a little bit clearer on that niche that you want to serve. Looking at something like the age range and the pain points, do you want to work with those accumulators or do you want to work with those closer to retirement or in retirement? That narrowing of the niche is going to one allow you to build more logic into your form to keep unqualified calls off your calendar, which then will also allow you if you want to add your fees to your website. And the other really big thing is we definitely, once you get clear on that next version of who you want to serve is we want to update your website, specifically your copy. The design is okay, we need to update that copy so that it reflects who you're actually serving. And for advisors listening, if you have too many leads on your calendar and Jason, you might also find this helpful. We did an entire episode on when is it time to build more friction into your sales process to keep unqualified calls off your calendar. So go ahead and check the archive. It's top Advisor Website Questions, Part 1. We Talk all about this very in depth. And for the rest of you listening, if you're enjoying the show, the number one thing you can do is just jump into your favorite podcast app. Let us know what you think. Let us know also, what would you like us to talk about more on the show? If you have any burning questions, any interesting topics, we look at every review. We're excited to read your feedback and hear your feedback. That's the top way you can help us out right now. And for everybody listening, thank you so much. We'll see you again next week. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. To get the resources shared or sign up to join us as a guest on one of our advice line episodes, check out the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.