Building a Structured COI Referral System That Actually Works (Tiffany Charles)

Summary

Advisor Marketing Made Simple: Building a Structured COI Referral System That Actually Works

Podcast Information:

• Title: Advisor Marketing Made Simple
• Host/Authors: Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright
• Guest: Tiffany Charles, Chief Growth Officer at Destiny Capital and Entrepreneur Aligned
• Episode Release Date: April 9, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of Advisor Marketing Made Simple, hosts Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright delve into the intricacies of Centers of Influence (COI) referral marketing with Tiffany Charles. Tiffany, a seasoned marketing professional and Chief Growth Officer at Destiny Capital and Entrepreneur Aligned, shares her proven strategies for building a structured COI referral system that drives predictable and sustainable growth for financial advisory firms.

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Guest Introduction: Tiffany Charles [00:00 - 02:34]

Taylor introduces Tiffany Charles, highlighting her impressive track record:

• Position: Chief Growth Officer at Destiny Capital and Entrepreneur Aligned
• Firm Details: Based in Colorado with a team of 9-10 members managing approximately $340 million in assets
• Client Focus: Serving individuals nearing or in retirement and business owner entrepreneurial families with closely held businesses.

Tiffany's Role: Tiffany emphasizes her role in centralized growth, focusing on attracting and nurturing leads, guiding prospects through the onboarding process, and transitioning them to advisors seamlessly.

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Why Focus on COI Referral Marketing? [02:34 - 07:36]

Tiffany explains the rationale behind prioritizing COI referral marketing over popular digital strategies like SEO, YouTube, and podcasting:

• Consistency and Quality: COI referrals provide a steady stream of highly qualified leads compared to the sporadic nature of digital leads.
• Longer Lifetime Value: Referred clients tend to have deeper engagements and higher retention rates.
• Faster Onboarding: Referred prospects typically convert more quickly as they come with a built-in trust factor.
• Reduced Shopping Behavior: Referred clients are less likely to shop around, leading to more meaningful and lasting relationships.

Tiffany Charles [04:10]:
"I believe in the model of centralized growth and this ability to attract and grow a firm while the advisors get to sit in a seat of really servicing all of those clients."

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Building COI Relationships [12:53 - 19:59]

Tiffany outlines her strategy for identifying and engaging potential COIs:

1. Leveraging Existing Clients: Asking clients about their trusted professionals (CPAs, attorneys, etc.) to identify potential COIs.
2. Personal Outreach: Initiating conversations by highlighting the mutual benefits of a referral partnership.
3. Networking Groups: Participating in masterminds, BNI groups, and local chambers to expand the COI network if starting without existing client referrals.

Tiffany Charles [12:53]:
"If you're in that spot as an advisor where there's some pre-existing clients and you're working with them, there's a line of COIs right there."

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The Structured COI Referral Process [19:59 - 34:03]

Tiffany introduces her three-meeting framework to solidify COI relationships:

1. First Meeting: Relationship Building [19:59 - 22:00]

   • Objective: Establish rapport, assess mutual compatibility, and understand each other's services.
   • Focus Areas:
     • Common ground and shared values
     • Understanding each other's client philosophies
     • Identifying potential synergies

2. Second Meeting: Deep Dive into Services [22:00 - 26:30]

   • Objective: Explore how each party can actively refer and support each other.
   • Focus Areas:
     • Detailed presentation of services
     • Understanding referral preferences and processes
     • Aligning on communication methods and client experiences

3. Third Meeting: Commitment and Action Plan [26:30 - 34:03]

   • Objective: Formalize the referral partnership and set actionable goals.
   • Focus Areas:
     • Establishing referral targets (e.g., three to five referrals per year)
     • Creating accountability through regular check-ins (quarterly meetings)
     • Ensuring both parties are committed to the relationship beyond just social interactions

Tiffany Charles [25:00]:
"We set a series of three meetings that are intentional and structured to ensure reciprocal referral opportunities."

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Handling Non-Qualified Referrals [43:24 - 48:10]

Tiffany addresses strategies for managing unqualified referrals:

• Transparent Communication: Informing both the prospect and the referrer about the fit.
• Providing Alternatives: Offering referrals to other trusted professionals better suited to the prospect's needs.
• Maintaining Respect: Ensuring that the referrer understands the decision respectfully to preserve the relationship.

Tiffany Charles [44:23]:
"If someone isn't a fit, we refer them to another professional who can better serve their needs, maintaining the integrity of our referral relationships."

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Authenticity in COI Marketing [35:06 - 37:17]

Tiffany emphasizes the importance of authenticity in building effective COI relationships:

• Genuine Intent: Approaching COI marketing with clear, honest intentions rather than transactional motives.
• Consistent Messaging: Using scripted but authentic communication to ensure clarity and sincerity.
• Personal Alignment: Ensuring that the referral strategy aligns with one's personal and professional values to foster trust and long-term partnerships.

Tiffany Charles [35:22]:
"Everything works, but it needs to be authentic. You have to make it your own to truly resonate and build trust."

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Lessons Learned and Mistakes to Avoid [49:45 - 52:16]

Tiffany shares valuable insights from her experiences:

• Avoiding Quantity Over Quality: Focusing on a few strong COI relationships rather than a large number of superficial ones.
• Ensuring Mutual Commitment: Building relationships where both parties are actively referring and supporting each other.
• Prioritizing Fit Over Potential: Not holding onto COIs solely based on their client base potential if the fit isn't right.
• Balancing Referrals: Understanding that while reciprocity enhances relationships, it isn't always mandatory for successful referrals.

Tiffany Charles [49:45]:
"Don't get hung up on just because they have a lot going for them; it's not about potential, it's about meaningful, committed relationships."

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Lesser-Known COI Partners [56:38 - 60:05]

Tiffany explores unconventional COI partners that advisors might overlook:

• EOS Implementers: Professionals who help businesses implement the Entrepreneurial Operating System, providing valuable connections to business owners.
• Corporate Attorneys and Investment Bankers: Deepen relationships with professionals who have extensive client interactions.
• Mediators: Especially those specializing in business partnership breakups, offering unique opportunities to connect with clients in transitional phases.
• Coaches and Business Consultants: Particularly those with structured programs that align with advisors' niche markets.
• Socialites and Community Leaders: Individuals with broad networks and influence within specific communities.

Tiffany Charles [56:38]:
"Coaches that own companies or have systems for entrepreneurs are excellent COIs because they naturally connect with business owners who fit our niche."

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Conclusions and Action Steps [60:05 - 60:37]

As the episode wraps up, Tiffany and Taylor summarize the key takeaways:

• Focus on Core Strategies: Prioritize a few effective marketing strategies, like COI referral systems, over spreading efforts too thin across multiple channels.
• Commit to Authentic Relationships: Build genuine, structured relationships with COIs to ensure long-term, reciprocal referrals.
• Leverage Niche Markets: Identify and engage with COIs that align closely with your firm's target client base to maximize referral quality and consistency.

Taylor Schulte [60:03]:
"Starting with your ideal client and working down from there will certainly be a helpful exercise to determine who the right COIs to surround yourself with are."

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Key Quotes and Insights

• Tiffany on Centralized Growth: [02:40]
  "I believe in the model of centralized growth and this ability to attract and grow a firm while the advisors get to sit in a seat of really servicing all of those clients."

• On the Importance of Structure: [19:59]
  "Having a structure from the beginning is crucial. It differentiates the relationship and ensures both parties are serious about referring and supporting each other."

• Handling Unqualified Referrals: [44:23]
  "If someone isn't a fit, we refer them to another professional who can better serve their needs, maintaining the integrity of our referral relationships."

• Authenticity is Key: [35:22]
  "You have to make it your own to truly resonate and build trust."

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive roadmap for financial advisors looking to implement or refine their COI referral systems. Tiffany Charles' structured approach, combined with her emphasis on authenticity and mutual commitment, offers actionable strategies to achieve predictable and sustainable growth through high-quality referrals.

Resources Mentioned:

• Tiffany Charles' LinkedIn and Website: [Insert Links]
• EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System): Learn more at [Insert Link]
• Traction by Gino Wickman: [Insert Link]

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Tune in next week as Taylor Schulte and Kendra Wright continue to unpack effective marketing strategies tailored for financial advisors seeking to elevate their practice without the guesswork.

Transcript

[Taylor Schulte]

Hey, it's Kendra and Taylor and we're here to make Advisor Marketing simple. Hey everyone. Welcome to Advisor Marketing Made Simple. I'm your co host Taylor Schulte and I am really excited to share today's conversation with you. Referral Marketing and specifically coi Referral marketing is one of the most talked about marketing strategies yet. It's rare for me to meet advisors who have a systematic process in place that generates a consistent flow of highly qualified referrals. Not just I get a few referrals from COIs per year, but I have seven core COIs that have formally committed to a referral relationship. I meet with each one of them every quarter. I have a structured agenda for each meeting and as a result I receive at least five highly qualified referrals per year from each coi. Tiffany Charles is the Chief Growth Officer at Destiny Capital and that is her exact approach to COI referral marketing, driven by a very thoughtful process that she built in order to create predictable sustainable growth. We dive into why she's all in on referral marketing, how she found and developed relationships with her core group of COIs and her three meeting process for formalizing the referral relationship. We also talk about how she educates cois about her ideal client, how she handles referrals that are not a fit, and tips for advisors who want to improve their COI referral marketing process. So without further ado, I hope you enjoy my conversation with Tiffany Charles. Welcome back to the show, Tiffany. To kick off today's conversation on COI referral marketing, will you please introduce yourself by sharing your name, your firm name, location and the size of your firm. And if it's not too much to also include your role or title within the firm as well as who your ideal client is.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah. Hi Taylor, thanks for having me. My name is Tiffany Charles. I work with Destiny Capital and Entrepreneur Aligned. We're a wealth management firm based in Colorado. We have about nine to 10 team members and we manage just about 340 million under management. Our focus is in serving two niche markets. We serve those that are nearing or in retirement, and we also serve business owner entrepreneurial families with primarily closely held businesses at the core of their financial plan.

[Taylor Schulte]

And then just because I think it's really awesome, will you share your title at the firm and what kind of your day to day role looks like?

[Tiffany Charles]

Definitely. My title's a little bit different, especially for an ria, but I'm the Chief Growth Officer here at Destin Capital and Entrepreneur Aligned. I've been sitting in that seat since 2018. And so I really believe in a model of centralized growth and this ability to attract and grow a firm while the advisors get to sit in a seat of really servicing all of those clients. So my key responsibilities are to think through how do we organically grow as a firm. I may dabble in the inorganic and a little bit of, like, the client experience as well, to ensure that it's very synergistic in the way that we're growing. But my role is to help find us leads and new households. And my role is to help, when somebody is interested in our firm, walk them through the prospect process. I get them to sign a contract, and then I hand them and transition them off to our amazing advisors.

[Taylor Schulte]

I'm not sure if you still think this or say this, but you said this to me a number of years ago, and it took me a little bit to process. You said, we are a marketing firm that happens to do financial planning. I thought it was just such an interesting way to frame it. And again, it took me a little bit of processing. What do you mean you're a marketing firm that does financial planning? I've always thought, like, we're financial planning, how can we market our services to attract more ideal clients? But I thought it's such a clever way to. To frame how you guys think about growth and specifically your role at the firm.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, that's exactly the lens that I need to consistently be operating from. I just think there's so many families and people out there waiting to be served, and we have just the best team. And I'm like, my job is to be that marketing firm that opens their minds to the impact and ways in which we can support them, these families, and. And then keep our advisors in a really great place to do what they love most, which is being in service. Right. And so I do still operate totally from that lens. Like, what are those messages? What are those themes that are picking up? I get to sit, and I love hearing our advisors talk about what they're doing with clients and the case studies, because I'm never in there thinking about the tax planning components of that or the estate or the investments and what we can do to dig deeper in those financial planning. We have an incredible team for that. My job is like, oh, I bet if we did a webinar on that, like, that's going to attract this, or this is going to create more client referrals or, hey, I just heard you. They mentioned this person. Did you do this follow up here? How about we do it this way. So I'm really there to engage from thinking purely through a marketing and business development lens.

[Taylor Schulte]

I love it. So let's dive into the core of today's topic, which is COI referral marketing. So really quick, last year in 2024, you shared with me that your firm received a total of 34 referrals, 26 of which were qualified, and that this ultimately led to 18 new recurring clients. Recurring? You know, paid recurring clients. And for our listeners, you shared that a qualified client was someone who was willing and able to pay your minimum fee, which is $10,000 per year minimum if they're a traditional individual, family, retiree type person, and then a $20,000 per year minimum if they're a business owner entrepreneur. So 18 people paying you at least $10,000 per year hired you in 2024 as a result of referrals. Before we move on, is that accurate? Anything to clarify or add before we go into what you did to actually generate this many high quality referrals?

[Tiffany Charles]

No, just that we took that purely on an annual basis and out of those 26, a couple more came on in 2025.

[Taylor Schulte]

So, okay, so the conversion rate was actually higher.

[Tiffany Charles]

Conversion's a tad bit higher. But. But yes, outside of that, those, those are. Was a lot of success. And we've been able to find some predictable paths and referrals through this last year that we hope to even double those numbers this year.

[Taylor Schulte]

Awesome. And if anybody's wondering, well, what about the eight people that were not qualified? How did you handle those situations? We'll be sure to touch on that later. But just to just to start to kick off today's conversation, so just about all of your growth in recent years has come from referrals both from existing clients and centers of influence, or COIs. I want to focus mostly on your COI referral strategy process today. But first I want to hear what led you and your firm to decide to dedicate most of your marketing efforts and resources to referral marketing versus popular digital strategies, YouTube, podcasting, SEO versus these popular digital strategies that most advisors seem interested in these days. Like what led you to say we're going to go all in on referral marketing?

[Tiffany Charles]

I think there's a few things here that I'd like to hit on. One Taylor, you and I think have shared this, that there's a. As you just mentioned, there's so many strategies out there, and I'll tell you, they all work. You just can't work all of them. So I think there's a Couple things like where as a firm do we best fit in supporting and growing our marketing efforts and where does that lie? A strength of mine is very much in that traditional realm. We're building on the digital, but it's also really in this play to support what we're doing on the. On that more traditional growth side. Number two is I think with your reading industry benchmarks and you're reading about and the work that we do, referrals is always universally going to be a strategy in what we're doing. We're working. We are humans working with humans. And I think that a piece of that is going to be really, really important and always having referrals. Other things that I'll just put that have really helped us kind of double down on what we're doing and how we're doing it is that we seem to have even like longer lifetime value with those that have been referred in, right. Because they have other connections to our firm. So it gives us more communication lines, it gives us more opportunities to hear success and to hear maybe disconnects. On top of that, we have, I would say, faster onboarding and even deeper engagement. When I get referrals, whether it's from a COI or client, they don't tend to be shopping. Several firms versus our digital leads, which just in full transparency, are a lot less than our referrals. We do engage a little bit more on like the shopping or like the fee. Conversation seems to come up a lot faster in our digital versus versus our referral. And so I just really love the strategies of referral. I think it's always going to be a component of all of our businesses. And for us, we have a lot of strength in having those conversations. How to really structure it in a way to create advocacy and reciprocity in the relationships that we have both with clients and COIs. And I love the compounding effect of what it looks like to have COIs and referrals, like the satisfaction, the connections, and all of the things that it can build from there. So for us, I think there's a lot of just data that points to faster and deeper engagements, you know, longer connections, probably higher retention. I don't have that down to the note, but I would say they're shopping less, and so they're connected even deeper to the firm. And so just as a strategy and it's whole, we focus here and obviously we have good success. And when you look at our numbers as a firm, Right. So if we have a $10,000 minimum or $20,000 minimum and we want to grow by 10 or 12%. We, we're looking at, you know, on the, on the organic side just as a minimum, but we're, we're looking at 20 to 30 households. Right. Like that is very doable. And the strategies that we're using and the time and effort that go in that, that and, and the ways in which that works out to, to do as a firm in these strategies as well. Yeah.

[Taylor Schulte]

I love what you shared about, about shopping. You know, whether it's price shopping or just trying to figure out if you're the right person to hire. You know, it's so different if it's a total stranger on the Internet who found you through search engine optimization or stumbled across a video and landed on your website versus their estate planning attorney that says, you know, Tiffany and her team specialize in working with people just like you. I've already vetted her, you know, X, Y, Z, number of clients of mine work with her and her team. Go, go hire them right now. It gets so different than just a total stranger reaching out and inquiring about your services.

[Tiffany Charles]

Definitely. And I would say that our COIs in particular, like our qualified leads from our COIs are higher than any of our other in any of our other means of new business.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Charles]

Because we can be super clear on who we do our best work with and we can continue to work with them to ensure that they're sending us the right people and we're working with them. So, so it's great.

[Taylor Schulte]

So let's get into the how and to do so. I want to rewind several years. So in the early years when you first started to pursue COI referral marketing, talk to us about what your strategy or process was for identifying and reaching out to cois to begin building this network of awesome referral partners. You know, if you, if you hand a good advisor 5 or 10 high quality COI relationships, I'm willing to bet that they're, they're likely able to have success growing by referrals. Referrals. But, but how do you actually find these COIs to build a relationship with in the first place? So how did you contact them? How did you find them? And also what was your ask when you did reach out to them?

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, good questions. So starting the good news is I was working at a firm and we had exist preexisting clients. So if you're in that spot as an advisor where there's some pre existing clients and you're in working with them, there's, there's a line of COIs right there. Right. You're collecting your clients tax returns. You have their CPA's name on it. You have their estate docs, you have estate attorneys names on it. Something you can be asking in client meetings, which I used to do and I still do to this day, is who are the most important professionals in your life and what do you like about working with them? Because they may say like somebody's really important in their life because I got to get my taxes files, but I actually don't like working with them. Maybe that's like tier three reach out. Right. Versus a tier one. We don't want to. We don't necessarily need to ask them, but those are really good things that our clients have a wealth of connections and they already have a trusted relationship with you. So it's really great. And typically that is a great in for somebody to take a meeting. Hey, Mr. CPA, like I was just connecting with one of our dear clients and they have just mentioned that they really appreciate all the work that you do. I would love the opportunity to connect more. Not only and how we're serving this client and is there anything we can do to support you there, but also is there more opportunities for us to explore and work together? Right, like that's it. Hey, attorney. Hey. EOS implementer. Hey, you know, business consultant. Hey, M and a advisor. You know, all of those things. Banker. We can get just directly right from our clients by just asking that question. And then the way that I built upon that was I asked the same question to each COI that I met. Right? Hey, who else are you connected to that you really love doing business with? Who are your top refers? Tell me about that. And they would have those names. Well, if they're doing COI marketing as well, a big piece of that is creating valuable connection. And one of the best ways and easiest ways that they can start opening the door is by connecting us to even another professional. Right. So the world of cois is already at our fingertips. You just have to be able to ask some of those core questions. If you don't have existing clients and you don't have a professional partner network, I do believe that going where they're already creating the masterminds or levels of that learn is a good place. BNI groups are great. There's Vista Stitch, there's. I mean, every location probably has chambers. You know, there's a lot of different places that you can go to just start on your messaging, your elevator pitch, your positioning and to build some of Those relationships. And that's a great place to start if you don't have existing clients.

[Taylor Schulte]

And then how many COIs in the beginning were you attempting to secure? As I'll call them referral partners, I think you call them core cois. How many were you attempting to secure in the beginning? And how many potential COIs did it take for you to to get to that number? In other words, did you have to identify and contact 50 COIs in order to get to 5 or 10 solid referral partners?

[Tiffany Charles]

So still to this day I believe in this formula or like the aimed amount is like five to seven solid COI relationships. When I researched and observed all of these advisors that were really successful, it was really in the like 80s and 90s and early 2000s. They had like a few things that were true about them. One, they almost all were running seminars because I'm pretty sure that's just how business was totally built back then. But also the COIs, like none of them were like just like churning through a bunch of cois. Like all the top referriers were always from just a handful. And I was like, that makes so much sense. And if we go back even to the formula I said earlier, if I only need 20 to 30 households this year that are high value clients to the firm, then I don't need a hundred COIs, I don't need 50 COIs, I don't need 20. If I have five to seven that each refer two to five a year, we have it right, because we're going to have a little feed a little bit from client referrals and stuff. And so I always have led. Like 5 to 7 is where you need to land. And in order to get that, in the beginning, I would say that I probably had to reach out to probably five to 10 in order to get the first one to two and then to get the rest, I would say that it was probably a 10 to 1 ratio, like I was reaching out to 50 to 70. I need to be totally honest, I didn't know how to position myself nor to host those meetings in the beginning. So I probably had levels of double that in order to get to those. Because it wasn't until I created the process that we're going to talk about today about being more intentional in those meetings that I was able to get to a place that we could really create that reciprocity. Because there were a lot of times that I just didn't know how to position myself or I was scared or I was making friends, but I wasn't creating the coi relationship, I was just taking time.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah, I mean, I think. I think the first challenge that us advisors experience is just how do I find these cois? Right? How do I get in the door? How do I have the conversation? How do I kind of secure them as a. As a professional relationship? The second hardest part is one that I really never figured out. You know, I never really tried too hard, but that is how do I actually build a relationship that. That provides me with predictable, you know, sustainable, ongoing referrals from this person. Because everybody says they want to refer each other business, but at the end of the day, like, is it actually happening? And I befriended a handful of awesome cois. You would call them really great cois, but, you know, we were playing golf and goofing around and getting the wives together for dinner and drinks and like, sure, referral would come here and there, but it was never this high quality referral and it was never a steady stream of them. So challenge number one, how do I find these cois? Get in the door, you know, kind of befriend them, build that professional relationship. But how do you actually ensure that this relationship is, you know, aligns with my growth goals? So let's talk about, you know, what happens next. Give us maybe a general overview of this. I'll call it the. The relationship building process. You reached out to them, they took you up on a first meeting. What did that first meeting entail? How do you determine if you should have a second meeting? What is a third meeting? Like, how often are you meeting with these people? What sort of scripts or meeting agendas have you used to systematize the process? Just talk to us a little bit more about what happens next.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, after I was going through a lot of time and we all have to balance our time, right? Like, there is a coi. Cost of marketing is always something to be considerate of. Is is where maybe it's not a high cost compared to maybe some of these other options or strategies that are out there for us. Like, you have to think about your time and your hourly rate and how to be effective. There's so spending a ton of time going to these meetings. We were just chit chatting all about life. And at the very end it was like, oh, we should totally do business together. And then we would go back to our desk and set six months out to meet again and just hope, just hope that referrals would come through. Right. Like, it was like, it's almost like even in our prospect process as advisors, where we're taking this like I hope you like me enough to choose me versus giving them a structure and a way to position you and honestly to opt in or opt out. Right? Like, are we going to be a good fit? Is there potential here? Just because somebody may look good on paper doesn't mean they're going to refer. And something else that I learned was I wasn't the only person at the table that was really bad at this marketing. Usually there was two of us every single time that we just needed a structure to learn how to be successful. School and networking. And so that's what I started building. I did just to make sure I'm not taking full credit. But I was doing some private coaching with Steph Bogan back then and so we. I really got to to build some of this with her and really thinking through this. But here's what that looked like. I am going to set a series of three meetings that's enough of a time commitment to get to Are we doing this right or are we doing this wrong? What do those meetings look like? Meeting number one. These are relationships. So COI marketing is relational. It's not transactional. Especially if you're looking for those five to seven. So up front, relationship building. Do I like this person? Do they like me? Do we have some common ground? Do we, you know, is there something, is there things that they're saying that I believe in? Do I find them authentic? Do I think that what they're delivering is of value? Are they vetted compared to other professionals that I feel like as a standard of CPA I would totally refer my clients to them. So I'm looking to get to know them, understand their practice and services and then sharing about our client philosophy too and making sure that I'm getting the nods and ends of like I see your value. So I would call this as like no red flags meeting right up front from like a surfaced level. So then I say, okay, great. What I have found is going to be really important to us. Taking a next step to see if we can truly be advocates to one another and support each other in referrals. And in this business is really, I would love to set time where you get a half hour to go through your services. I refer you a client. What do you like for that communication? How do you like that referral to come through? What are they going to experience in those meetings that help them understand the decisions that they're making? And I want to know about your fees. And then I'd love a few things on how you Think we can position you. And then I say the same thing. I'm going to give you a half hour, show you in a more in depth way what we do, how we do that, you know, answer any questions you may have and give some ideas on how we think that we can integrate you into creating opportunities. If we both feel really good from that meeting, we're going to have a third meeting. This third meeting. So this is kind of onboarding. A CLI is commitment. And I think this was the place that I never got to before. Well, I certainly always had meeting number one, you know, but I stuck in that friend zone. Meeting number two. But three is the commitment. Hey, we both only have so much time to really nurture the relationships that are going to service us in the best way ways. Right? Both from a relationship, from the opportunities and all of that stuff. Let's make a commitment. What can we do this year to support one another? Referrals is always a piece of that. Right? Like we're going to be searching for these opportunities that I, as a, you know, as a firm, we want to find three to five opportunities for you this year. And here's where I think that we can meet those. How about you? Where are you at? And then there's always little lingering things that are big value that you may just not know of. And I think they're really important to pick up from that relationship. Are they sitting on a board that you can support? Are they having something in their business that you've already built a process on that you can send them with COIs, they're most likely in a seat of running a very similar business that you can really help kind of ping through some of those things as well. Once they get committed, then we get into this like ongoing relationship. Hey, I think it's best if we set meetings every three months and we make sure that we're doing this after our very first referral to one another. Let's make sure that we're checking in and have a call like, how did that go? Was there any communication changes that you would have? All of those things to really encourage that this needs to happen. I used to, when I was starting, try to always be the one out of the gate to provide the referral. Okay. Now I think we're in such a great place with cois. Well, one, we have our set numbers, so that helps. But even new ones still get introduced. And I do feel like as a firm and where we're at, like we have the opportunities to maybe even add a secondary set of COIs is I do look to see if they can also make those referrals. So sometimes I'm out of the gate, but it really, really impresses me when they come out of the gate. And those are ways in which I can pour in them even further. So I don't know that that needs to be aligned. Coi. I believe in the go giver and being the giver first because that really creates a truth and in action and differentiates you from anybody else they may be working with. But then that has to be meaningful. Ongoing 1 referral is not what you're looking for from COIS. Like you're looking for ongoing opportunities. So do they have the pipeline? Are they growing? Can they consistently refer? And do you love working with them? And do you feel really comfortable putting your clients in the hands of ecois? You just need a structure to uncover all of that and get commitment. And then the years go by and.

[Taylor Schulte]

You know, the referrals pour in.

[Tiffany Charles]

They do. And I like to text to one of our estate planning attorneys just last week being like, hey, what are you working on? Anybody for us to work with? Like, that's where we got to, like, can you imagine, like, how. I mean, that took years, take some years to get to, but, like, that's where we're at now because that system made it very comfortable for us to be asking for referrals.

[Taylor Schulte]

You know, the, the other hidden benefit of growing through COI referrals is, at least to me, you are known as this ultra connected person in the COI world. And so, as you know, I've reached out to you a handful of times saying, hey, we have a client in Colorado that needs an estate planning attorney. Tiffany, who do I go to? And now you're able to give referrals to all these COIs because people know you as a great connector. So there's a little hidden benefit there as, um.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah.

[Taylor Schulte]

All right, I've got a few follow up questions there. First, what if they don't refer you anything in the first, let's say six month touch base meeting? After the, after these three meetings, you're both on board. Let's commit to this. Let's check in. In six months, maybe you've given them a handful of great referrals, but you've, you've had nothing in return. Yeah, maybe it's 12 months and there's still nothing. Like, how long do you wait to decide this relationship is not worth continuing to spend your valuable time on? And then second to that, like, how do you, how do you have that conversation with them?

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, both good questions. I think people, especially in the referral, like in referring, do show you those colors in six months. When I started, I definitely waited a little bit longer than that, like a year or two. For those that are listening, if you have existing COI relationships and they haven't referred, don't just assume that they're not referrers. It's definitely worth a conversation with more structure to see if they kind of move up or move out. So when I say that, but now with where we're at, it's if they haven't referred in, in six months, like they're most likely not going to refer based on the structures and commitments that we have. So that check in is really important. Hey, we both committed to, right? Even at the three months we both committed, I, you know, I haven't been able to get there yet, but we have these three clients that are on Decklist case study. Is there opportunities here? I can see where they could really value, you know, get value from working with you. Can you help me understand, like if there is, there's a way that we could be thinking about this different to make that introduction. Right. And so I'm super honest. If we can't do it either, hey, like we were three, four months in here and we're not finding where our clients may, you know, like, we're having a hard time finding the ways in which to make those referrals because they need to understand that if I'm not their best place to spend time, then that's okay too. But yeah, for them, I'll ask them same thing. Hey, it's been a few months. Like is there something more that you need? Do we need to case study so that you, that we can help each other really understand better positioning. Is there a discomfort? And sometimes you start to realize like that they were really eager, they did very well. But like they're just not going to refer, they're not comfortable in that. Or they're going to say things like, it's my responsibility to always give out three to five names, so I give your name out. Or something along those lines. And that's just not the COI marketing or relationships that we do our best with, nor that work well in the systems in which we're operating. So over time there's a couple of things. If we have referred a couple of clients and our clients are having a really good experience there, it may be a place that we now have marked in our CRM. Like, you know, as a Client experience coi, but not an advocate or a COI that business development works on. Because there's going to be certain trades that you find where you're like that vetted well and it does really well for our clients. So that now becomes more of the integrated client referral piece versus a coi. So there may be a few where you're just like, but I'm no longer going to sit with them on a quarterly basis to try to drive business. But we'll keep their name on the list for if maybe a client needs there where no other COI can provide that experience. Sure. Does that make sense? And then if none of that has happened, like there's just no value on client experience or business development, then, you know, either I just don't set those next year conversations or if we're having that conversation, then I just have the honest conversation of I just don't know that we're going to be able to provide the value to each other that we were looking at out of the COI marketing. Like, I really, you know, if there's anything that you ever need or need support on, like a. Super happy to do that, but want to be super respectful of the time that you're giving to develop business as well.

[Taylor Schulte]

And I'm guessing one of the primary reasons that you don't want to be in the friend zone with these COIs is for situations like this. Right. You become good friends with the CPA or attorney and you're getting the families together and going to concerts or playing golf, and then the relationship doesn't go so well and you have to have a hard conversation with them. So I'm guessing that's part of the reason that you don't want to stay in the friend zone. But maybe elaborate a little bit more because you shared this in previous years too, and we've had these conversations that. Yeah, I don't, I don't think these people are not my friends. Like, this is a business relationship. And I think too many of us, myself included, just get caught up in, you know, befriending these people and again, playing golf and going out and doing things and grabbing beers after work, but nothing really turning into real business.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, I would say that I haven't allowed that friendship piece to creep in until there's been a few years of us really owning where we started this relationship with, which was committing ourselves to supporting each other in business and in our clients and referring. Right. So once that's established, then those friendships are great friendships because you've already You've already established and been able to support each other in so many ways that, like, those dinners. And because they're going to keep referring. You already have proof of that.

[Taylor Schulte]

Right.

[Tiffany Charles]

But when you go into that friendship zone up front, it really gets complicated. And. And it's like, gosh, I really feel like I need to take this because I. Our people pleasers come in and we're not getting what we want. And the COI marketing gets really expensive on time when we're having a lot of coffees and dinners that don't produce. And so it's really important up front. And that's where that structure comes in. Have the structure. Set it from the beginning. I am here so that we can grow. I am here so that we can deliver a better client experience to both of our clients. Right? Like, that is what we're here for. That's what we're believing, and that's where we start. And you can evolve from there if you're here still stuck in the, like, do you like me and do I like you stage. Like, you may be, like, the tiptoeing starts and all the weird things. So I just. I really believe that both parties and not very many people are naturally just good at being like, this is the intent of our relationship. Like, this is what we're both coming here for. And nobody's offended because the other. The other person is coming for the same things. I think it's almost relieving is the experience or, like, the word I probably say. When I started going into the structure, it was almost as if both of us felt relief that it was okay for us to trial this. And if it worked, great, and if it didn't, that's great, too. Like, we. We both just had an understanding of what we were trying to position here. Also. It was a differentiator.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah, totally.

[Tiffany Charles]

Really, it really gave me credibility and trust pretty quick for cois when it was like, no, I'm here to be super serious about us actually doing something like this. This is like a. We're both going to be effective with our time and what we're trying to do here.

[Taylor Schulte]

I mean, Kendra and I talk so much about, and you said it earlier, that. That everything works. All these different strategies, tactics, everything works. One of the most important ingredients is that it needs to be authentic. This strategy needs to feel authentic to you. And so hopefully our listeners can hear as you're sharing all this and even sharing some of the scripts that you say that you've memorized because you've said them so many times just how authentic it is to you. How authentic it is to you to show up to a meeting and say these things and be crystal clear about your intentions. I'll be candid. Like, it doesn't feel very authentic. Authentic to me. Like, I'm not excited about going and adopting a similar process. Doesn't mean it doesn't work. It doesn't mean others shouldn't be inspired and take what they've learned in today's episode and go take action just for me. Like, oh, gosh, I don't. I don't. I don't know. I don't want to have those conversations. That's tough. But to you, it feels comfortable and it feels authentic, and it's a big reason why it's worked so well. And of course, you don't have to frame it the exact same way that Tiffany does or say it the same way. You need to, you know, make it your own. But hopefully everyone can hear is how authentic and comfortable you feel approaching COI referral marketing this way.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, I love people. And then you put process to people and it works really well. But I'm with you. Like, I can't imagine trying to find, like, that lottery ticket blog that positions in a way that gets opened up a ton and has the cta. Like, that is really hard for me.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Charles]

And I think with how many strategies we have out there, part of it is, like, we get stuck in doing a little bit of everything versus really getting committed. And I shared with you over the years of COIs, like, I get super excited now to see where. Because predictability is really important in growth in any strategy that we have. Right. Like, how does it start becoming predictable? How. How isn't it just like, one COI here and a digital here? And so we keep feeding this. Like, we're going to continue to do all the things versus, like, how do we hone in on the one to two marketing strategies we need as a firm to be super, super successful? And for cois, like, I'm now in a place, like, over the years where I get to be like, okay, now what was it in that email that created that? Or when I had this meeting? That referral is coming within a week. Right. So now I know I need to have this many meetings, to have this many referrals come from this amount of time and all of those things. And, like, that's just not where I started. Where I started was like, I, you know, if I could get two from a coi, like, that's telling. One is a good start, but it is not predictable or creating. Like, there's a path. Two is pretty confirming in the first year, and three is very confirming in the second year that you'll keep getting more. Like, there's enough of a process there that they're thinking of you, you're top of mind, and that there is a healthy pipeline, and I love being in those pieces of it now. And when I was spread thin thinking we as a firm needed to do so much more to create leads and have additional lines and all of that, like, we definitely lost steam in some of these areas. And so I just. I do think that it's really important to think about, like, what are the one to two core areas of marketing you're going to focus on?

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah, I. I mean, I appreciate you sharing those metrics. I would agree that, like, three should be a minimum. You know, you'd mentioned earlier, seven awesome COIs, five referrals per year. That's 35 referrals. You know, a few of those may not be qualified, and then most of them are going to convert. Most of the qualified will convert. So, you know, ideally, five awesome referrals from seven awesome COIs sounds like a good formula there. I just want to emphasize something you said earlier that just be careful with those COIs where you might get, like, one random referral every 12 months. It just kind of reminds me of advisors who pursue multiple marketing activities, have got LinkedIn and Instagram and a podcast and a YouTube channel. They're trying to do everything, and it becomes hard to get rid of things because they're like, oh, but that one time somebody reached out via Instagram and they were a good prospect. Or that one time my COI or my CPA sent me somebody who, like, almost became a client, or maybe they did become a client. And you have such a hard time getting rid of these activities because once in a while, they work. So I think we do want to, you know, assign some sort of measurable metric here to determine is this thing truly working and is it sustainable, isn't it, and is it predictable? So I think three is probably a good target. But I like how you. You shared that. Like, hey, one in the first six months is great, two in the first. From there, we want to see three, you know, three to five per. Per coi, and then it goes up from there.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yep. Yeah.

[Taylor Schulte]

Then it goes up from there. So, really quick, I want to go back to the very first meeting, what you call your red flag meeting. And I know this because you and I have had this conversation in the past that one of the kind of set of questions that you ask is about other financial advisors. So you'll ask the COI in this red flag meeting, how many advisors do you currently work with? How has your experience been with them? Has there been an opportunity for business? Do you yourself work with a financial advisor? So you're asking them these questions about other financial advisors and their experience with them. What are you, what's the angle that you're coming at? Like, what are you listening for? And what would you consider a red flag? Like if they answer one of these questions a certain way, you're like, all right, I know I shouldn't schedule a second meeting and we should, you know, kindly part ways.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, a couple of things. Like, so one I'm looking for what is their view on wealth management and financial advisors? Right? Like do they poo poo us? Do they see us like on as like a non necessity or do they are like, I've had this experience, it matters a lot, all of those things. So those are just natural levels of like is there education that needs to be done there so that they can feel the buy in of what we're doing? Or do they already have like such a level of experience that they appreciate and already feel like this is really important in people's lives? Neither one of those necessarily give me a red. I mean if they're very much like you guys as an industry don't belong anywhere, then that's a good red flag and I'm out. But outside of that, I'm just kind of learning like educationally wise, like how do we build advocacy or do they already even naturally have it so that it's not like I have to do a lot to, to sell them on what we're doing and how we impact clients lives? The, the second part of that is if they already have their financial advisor that they have this ongoing relationship with, I just haven't found that. I think there's two things here. One, if I can position us because of our niche, especially with the business owners with closely held businesses, then I can put our place there with them. But when there's existing relationships, lips that have already bonded, the chances of breaking that are very slim. So we want to understand how are we really positioned to build what I'm looking to build here with you. Like I don't want it to just be a place where I'm just referring to you and I'm getting lip service. So when I'm asking that and it's like oh, you know, like, that's great. Do you guys refer a lot to each other? How does that work? I love that that relationship's working so well for you, you know, and I can learn things, so I don't rule it out just on like the. Oh, yes, I have the advisor. I already love that. I do a lot of work with. But so my next step there is like, okay, because we have this niche with entrepreneur aligned and the way we can position ourselves. Is there an opportunity that all the other clients, like, we're probably not getting retirement client referrals based off of the advisor relationship, but can we be the one where he's like, oh, yeah, you guys would get all of those clients and that if there's opportunity there, that's great. But yeah, I'm. I'm just really looking to see, like, if. If those relationships exist. Like, there's not a ton. Like, we have some really great cois now over the years. Like, we have an incredible estate planning attorney. I don't know, we must work 40 or 50 client households together. He refers all the time. We refer all the time. Our clients are super satisfied. We have a couple other estate planning attorneys, too, that we do some of that with. But it would have to take somebody real remarkable to come in and create and disrupt what we have going there. Right, right. And I learned that over time, too. Like, I just had enough meetings where I got, like, almost like the pat on the head, like, this was so great, and I would love for you to refer to me, but I was never going to get it back because somebody else had already had that relationship. And this is relational marketing.

[Taylor Schulte]

Well, I think we have to be careful too, because some of these professionals, some of these COIs, they might be building their business with advisor referrals. And their goal is to build up a referral pipeline of 10 different advisors that are referring them business. And maybe they're able to share referral here and there, but that's their goal is find as many advisors as possible to refer them business. And now you're one of 10 different advisors or firms, so I think we have to be careful about their intentions and their, you know, kind of growth strategy as well.

[Tiffany Charles]

Totally.

[Taylor Schulte]

So I think they're great questions to ask, questions I haven't really thought of asking before or seen them phrased that way. So I appreciate you sharing.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah. And you'll find a theme in industries where it's a lot of wealth advisors. Like, that's where they get all of their business from. And so for me, that's not going to be a place that we're looking for in this COI marketing relationship. It may be a place where I'm looking to vet the best person for client experience. That's about it.

[Taylor Schulte]

Okay. Two other questions on your process and then we can jump into helping listeners take some action here. Maybe learn from, you know, some of the things that you've done well, but also some of the mistakes that you've made along the way. First is how do you handle situations like we, I referenced earlier, about eight referrals you received last year were not qualified, they were unqualified. They either came from clients or COIs. In this case, let's just pretend that those eight unqualified prospects came from, you know, some of your core cois. How do you handle that situation? What do you say to the prospect who is not qualified? And then how do you communicate to the referrer the COI that this person was not qualified?

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah. So in all prospect process, right. I start by asking them the questions. So you never want to be in a seat where you sold yourself and now you're like going backwards. So, you know, I'm, I'm learning up front that we're not going to be the best firm to serve them. And so as a part of that, I'm looking to understand through what I'm collecting, what are their pain points and how can I open doors to serve them. Right. I always, we always talk to our team about that too. Like we are in service. It just doesn't mean we take everybody on as a client. And I think that works really well for our COI in referral marketing in general. Right. Our COIs and clients send them our way. We're happy to have a conversation. But our cois, they, they do. We get to come back and share maybe why we weren't the best fit there. But for the prospect who's not qualified or our team's not the best to be in service too, there's a couple of things I would say. We do have some advisors that we vetted that are in a position to maybe serve more simplified needs. Right. As in, in, in both planning and investment management. And so we will offer to open those doors. I would say a lot of times too, there's often like tax or banking associated with some of those. And so I'm, I'm making some of those intros. But I mean, similar to COIs, I'm, I'm having a, you know, pretty honest conversation on like, you know, at the fees that we charge and what you're looking for like, I just don't know that you'll get the most out of working with our team. And here's where we traditionally work and a lot of times I hear the feedback from the prospect on like, oh yeah, that's definitely more than I need. Do you just do a portion of that? And it's like we don't as a firm, like, we only have what, you know, this one way in which we holistically serve our clients. But I gotta tell you, I do have some options where you can explore exactly what you're looking for here. Here they are. With cois, I do go, I do always communicate like if a client chooses to onboard with us or not. Right. And, and not could mean also non qualified where we've also made that decision. But it's really important to have good communication lines there. So I always, with the coi, I do always go back and say, hey, we're definitely going to open this door for them. Based off of everything that we've uncovered, we think this could be a really great fit. Is there anybody else that you think we should refer them to? Because COI marketing is relational and they are probably marketing with other people too. And so I like to give them the opportunity to say that and or for them to follow up directly with the client and say, hey, no, they gave you a name. But I also have a name. But my job is to always make somebody feel served and whole even if we're not going to bring them on. And so the coi, I just always want to be thoughtful of the fact that they do have other relationships and that can show up well for them in and both with client and another professional and with a prospect, I always want to help them take their next best step. So I never just leave somebody with like that's a nice call. Good luck. Like, you know, we have from. Is it a retail platform and like, you know, Fidelity retail makes the most sense and this is where they should go. Is it a banking, is it a tax? Is it, you know, an RIA that is just in a spot to serve a lot of clients just like them? That's what I'm opening. Are they in the midst of a divorce and I'm sending them to the divorce advisors that we know or just all of those things. But I try to just make sure that in relational marketing and when you're getting referrals, my end goal with everybody that I talk to is what's the next best step? And I'm responsible to bridge that gap.

[Taylor Schulte]

I don't know why I never thought about this. And what you said, it was such a great idea that if they're not a fit, going back to the COI that referred them and saying they're not a fit, you know, not somebody that we can do our best work for. Who do you think we should refer them to? Like, collaborate with that COI and work together to help get that person into the best place. You know, historically, we've always said this person's not a fit for X, Y and Z reasons, but we want to ensure they get the help they need. So we've referred them to, you know, three other advisors that we think are a better fit or we've sent them here or we've answered some questions. But actually bringing that COI in the picture to collaborate with them to help this person is so powerful.

[Tiffany Charles]

It's such a great idea. And we do the same with the COI too. I think it's really a, you know, COIs, there's always re education opportunities to talk about who you do your best work with. You can have a million conversations and it's just kind of like learning how to totally position you as a piece of this. So yeah, it's really important to say here's why, but here's what they were looking for and here's, you know, this is what we can position or help them to do. But always like, and as always, anybody that you think would value from a conversation with us, like, please don't hesitate to send. But it's like with adding on to the, like, you know, who's a good person to send.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah, I like that a lot. Okay, let's help some listeners take action here. Maybe you've already touched on it, I'm not sure. But what do you think has been one of your biggest mistakes or learning lessons with COI marketing over the years? And how can other advice avoid making the same one if they're going to maybe improve their current COI marketing process or adopt one for the very first time.

[Tiffany Charles]

I would say like a good, I think one that has caught me a few times over the years. And I would say it just costs a lot of time and honestly a little heartache, but is just because they have access to ideal clients. Like, so now it's like, ooh, ooh, okay. They have like an entire, you know, client base that would be so good for us. Like I should pour my time and energy and it doesn't make them a good coi. Like they it there's a relationship here And I may not be their chosen one. And so I've held on to cois where it's like just because maybe they're ticking the like they have the right clients, they have all of these it that it really has to come down to. Like this is a referral based, relational based strategy. So I need you to feel really powerful about what we're doing. So much so that you're willing to have those conversations. Like I need to know that you know like worry were your chosen or within your top couple. Right. That this is going to consistently happen and that they're going to actively refer. So I would say that as you're meeting COIs and and you're creating some of that one intentionality. Super important. Don't just have a ton of meetings without structure. Get that commitment but to just because they're. They have like a lot of potential, doesn't it? It doesn't like hanging on to that. Right. Like I think you said it even earlier. Like they make one and you're like this is good. Or you feel indebted for so long for that one or like you're just hanging on there. Like that's not the strategy. Otherwise you have to meet with like COIs a week very different ones. Like you're, you're wheeling and dealing and that's not what we're looking for here. So yeah, don't get hung up on just because they have a lot going for them that it's the right relationship for you.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah, that's great. Does. Do you think an advisor needs to be able to refer business to their COI partners if they expect to receive referrals from them? In other words, like, does it have to be a two way street? And I ask this because, you know, rewind five, 10 years ago and I might be feeling in. In, you know, in my career journey I might be feeling like, gosh, like I need referrals to grow, but I don't really have many referrals to give. Like how is this going to work? So how critical is that two way street to pursuing this marketing process?

[Tiffany Charles]

I. That's a good question and I would say my answer is like, it's like it depends. But I do think that the very best ones, there's a lot of synergy and client experience and referral opportunities just from like a. It's the best. Like it just seems to like it seems to continue to last year over year over year when there can be the pipeline served to one another. However, you do not have to have that happen to get referrals. There is a lot of things that professionals that we are in that we are connecting with need and find value in. So you are really again this is relational. So like you're uncovering how else can you support them to build credibility and trust in the work that you're doing as well. Right. And so I think about an advisor I work, work very, very closely with, he got a ton of referrals from CPAs and he had like probably three or four on there and, and he didn't, he didn't nurture him this way. And what he did, he created the coolest CPE course that he did an eight hour course on every year and gave them hand like all these things. But he went to the Colorado Society of CPAs. He had the class that everyone wanted to take because it was differentiated enough from everything else and they got so much value out of what he was doing. And he just had his contact information out there. He was investment tax and all this fun stuff and that fed him for years. And that's just what he did. And that I would consider COI marketing. He just didn't, he didn't do those to the clients, he did it to the people who had lots and lots of clients and he was the trusted source. So I think you can really think through some of that, that stuff. We have a process with COIs with EOS implementers and how to add value to their life to help their entrepreneurs and business owners find more clarity. So when they're setting up their vtos and they're going into this process that they have an even better opportunity to serve, possibly a deeper opportunity to serve their clients and it gives us opportunities as well. Right. So we probably like, we don't have a ton of referrals for EOs and implementers right now, I mean occasionally, but like we're not digging that far into business side to always be thinking about that. But we certainly have something that adds a lot of value to the process and the ways in which we are the yin to the yang of what they're doing for their business owners. And we do it in a very similar structure. And so we've created this process to help fit for them to be cois. And that will be a place where it's probably more than giving to us than what we can give to them. But what we needed to look for is one like how do we add value to them? So we're uncovering from this subset of COIs, like how are they earning their revenue? Where are they seeing pain points like how can we, how can we create opportunities there? And that creates buy in so you don't need it. But when we're talking about it in the traditional sense, in the ways that we have, I would say that that reciprocity of having referrals certainly supports the longevity and the ease of that relationship.

[Taylor Schulte]

So for, for people listening that aren't familiar with eos, I just want to share that. EOS stands for Entrepreneurial Operating System and it's a program that you can implement in your business, any business, not just wealth management. And there are implementers that you can hire to hold you accountable and help you and your team take action with the EOS system. There's a great book out there, Traction, if you want to learn, learn more. So we'll link to all that in the show notes. But kind of on that note was my last question, which is what do you think are some of the little known kind of COI referral partners that advisors might not be considering? I think when we think about COIs, we think about attorneys and CPAs and rarely do we think outside the box. You mentioned EOS implementers, which is a new one to me. What are some other kind of little known COIs that advisors might consider reaching out to to go through this and implement this sort of COI marketing process?

[Tiffany Charles]

I think, you know, we do really great work with corporate attorneys. They have close relationship with their clients and the same with some investment bankers. You, you definitely want to similar to all COIs but like uncover who they're working with. But it's fascinating to learn like how long they nurture relationships before they get the opportunity for the sale. And just to think about how you can position yourself there. We mediators, we have a super cool mediator here in Colorado that does like partnership breakups, like business partnership breakups as a core focus of the mediation that she does. And that's been really great too. I was trying to think about if there was anything else like outside of your typical. Not really. I have focused on some owners of like coaching companies. Coaches in themselves can be there. I haven't found like a ton of consistency through coaching, but when they own a company that like has a system that entre like business owners are naturally going to, that's been really great for us for cois as well, where it's like, you know, they're putting together some sort of structure or programming. It can even be a socialite, right? Like who's connected that you have an ability to create this connection to. But I think those are the ones that. Where there's, like, a lot of good reciprocity for us, right? Like, yeah. And that's where we focus. And as you may hear just from me and the way I'm answering this is like, because we have niched in who we're serving, it has really given us a good idea on cois outside of maybe your traditional or typical realm of estate and cpa.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think to that point, like, it. It highly depends on who your target client is.

[Tiffany Charles]

Totally.

[Taylor Schulte]

And that's the benefit of having a niche is now you can determine, okay, this is my niche. This is who I do my best work for. Here's my minimum fee or minimum investment asset level. Now I can start to figure out, where do these types of clients live, consume information? What sort of professionals are they working with? Reminds me, an advisor I talked to years ago in Florida who specialized in working with retirees. But not just retirees. People that are new to Florida. Right. They've moved to Florida to retire. So they're new to the state, and now they're navigating all the nuances and new tax codes and everything related to retirees in Florida. So he partnered and networked with real estate agents to introduce him to these new retirees that were buying homes and moving to Florida. So it wasn't just like, you know, I network with real estate agents, but very specific. I work with real estate agents who are introducing me to people who are new to Florida who are just moving here, who are retiring. And I want to say he does like seminars or webinars for those folks as well. So I think starting with your ideal client and working down from there will certainly be a helpful exercise to determine who the right cois to surround yourself with.

[Tiffany Charles]

It does, because it opens up a whole new world of COIs that maybe don't apply to everybody, which I'm trying to think of here, versus, like, just who you're doing. Right. Like, yeah. Whether that's divorce or widowed or, you know. Yeah. To your point of their snowbirds or they're moving to a new state. Like, all of those niches have a lot of opportunities in narrowing down and really getting deep or maybe being creative and who could be a coi.

[Taylor Schulte]

Yeah. Well, Tiffany, I've held you here long enough. Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge and information with us. Congrats on the success that you've had. We'll link to a lot of the stuff that we've referenced today in today's conversation, including Tiffany's LinkedIn and website and firm and all that good stuff. But Tiffany, thank you very, very much.

[Tiffany Charles]

Yeah, I appreciate it.

[Taylor Schulte]

We hope you enjoyed today's episode to get the resources shared or sign up to join us as a guest on one of our advice line episodes, check out the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.

[Tiffany Charles]

Sa.