Afford Anything Podcast Summary
Episode: Harvard Negotiation Expert: The Hidden Tax of Avoiding Tough Conversations
Host: Paula Pant
Guest: Bob Bourdon
Release Date: March 18, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Afford Anything podcast, host Paula Pant engages in a deep conversation with Bob Bourdon, a renowned negotiation and conflict resolution expert. The episode delves into the psychology of negotiations, particularly focusing on how individuals can effectively advocate for themselves in various scenarios, such as asking for a raise, resolving family disputes, or handling challenging coworkers.

Guest Introduction

Bob Bourdon brings over 25 years of experience in the field of negotiation and conflict resolution. He served as a clinical professor of law at Harvard Law School for over two decades, founded the Harvard Negotiation and Mediation Clinical Program, and later established his own consulting practice. Currently, he is a senior fellow at Harvard Law School, the founder of the Cambridge Negotiation Institute, and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University Law Center. Bob is also the co-author of the book Conflict Resilience, which explores both the psychological and neurological aspects of negotiation and conflict management.

Current State of Negotiation and Conflict Resolution

[03:08] Bob Bourdon: "I think the sad answer to that question is yes, although I also think that there is a perception that we're in a lot more contention than we were a quarter of a century ago."

Bob observes that modern times seem more contentious compared to 25 years ago, attributing this to a diminished capacity to handle disagreements effectively.

Negotiation vs. Facilitation vs. Conflict Resolution

Paula seeks clarity on the distinctions between negotiation, facilitation, and conflict resolution.

[04:14] Bob Bourdon: "Conflict resolution is a subset of negotiation... Facilitation is really a process by which some third party helps people who are in conflict or who are trying to reach a deal actually get to that deal."

Bob explains that while negotiation involves deal-making between parties, conflict resolution focuses on addressing disagreements, and facilitation involves a third party aiding in the negotiation process. All three share overlapping skills but serve different purposes.

Key Skills for Effective Negotiation

At a high level, the essential skills for negotiation and facilitation are discussed, emphasizing their application in scenarios like requesting a raise.

[05:45] Bob Bourdon: "One of the most counterintuitive but critical skills for great negotiators are good listeners, really deep listeners..."

Bob underscores the importance of active listening and understanding the other party's perspective to frame choices appealingly for mutual agreement.

Empathy vs. Assertiveness

A significant portion of the discussion centers on balancing empathy with assertiveness.

[08:36] Bob Bourdon: "Empathy is not at odds with assertiveness... Assertiveness is simply my ability to advocate for what's important to me."

Bob clarifies that empathy involves understanding others without compromising one's own needs, while assertiveness entails advocating effectively for oneself. Combining both leads to better negotiation outcomes.

However, Paula raises an internal challenge:

[11:13] Paula Pant: "Empathy can cause me to doubt my own position internally..."

Bob acknowledges this struggle and suggests that individuals nurture both their empathetic and assertive sides, ensuring neither overshadows the other.

The Three-Part Preparation Framework

Bob introduces a structured approach to preparing for negotiations, comprising Mirror Work, Chair Work, and Table Work.

1. Mirror Work

[14:00] Bob Bourdon: "Mirror work is about naming each of these sides of yourself that are in play in this particular conflict."

Mirror Work involves identifying and understanding the different facets of one's self that influence the negotiation, such as empathy, assertiveness, and anxiety.

2. Chair Work

[20:25] Bob Bourdon: "The chair exercise is almost an acting improv exercise in which each side of you gets broken out into a caricature."

Chair Work is a role-playing technique where each identified facet of oneself is given a voice, fostering deeper understanding and internal dialogue between conflicting internal perspectives.

3. Table Work

[29:15] Bob Bourdon: "Table work is the actual doing of it... bringing forward your different internal voices into the conversation."

Table Work involves applying the insights from Mirror and Chair Work into the actual negotiation, ensuring a balanced and authentic dialogue that respects both one's own needs and the other party's.

Managing Power Imbalances

The conversation touches upon negotiations involving power dynamics, such as an employee negotiating with a boss.

[34:14] Bob Bourdon: "Power is the ability to persuade or force someone to do something. Shifting focus from power to interests enables more value creation."

Bob advises focusing on underlying interests rather than leveraging power, which fosters long-term relationships and mutually beneficial outcomes.

Recognizing and Holding Conflict

Bob introduces the concepts of conflict recognition and conflict holding, crucial for understanding and managing disputes effectively.

[44:33] Paula Pant: "Conflict recognition is the recognition of whether or not this constitutes a conflict in the first place, and people have either low or high thresholds for that conflict."

[44:43] Bob Bourdon: "We have different sensibilities of when our brains go into a panic... different conflict holding levels."

Understanding one's threshold for recognizing a conflict and the comfort with holding it unresolved is essential for effective conflict management.

Negotiating in Written Communication

With the rise of digital communication, the episode explores strategies for effective written negotiations.

[66:00] Bob Bourdon: "When you sense tension in an email, it's time to end the written communication and move to a live conversation."

Bob emphasizes the limitations of asynchronous communication, advocating for live interactions when negotiations involve high emotions or tension to preserve clarity and relationship integrity.

Process vs. Substance in Negotiations

A critical discussion point is the distinction between process (how negotiations are conducted) and substance (the actual terms being negotiated).

[78:35] Bob Bourdon: "The process is really the how... The substance is literally the discussion about the deal terms."

Bob argues that prioritizing process can significantly influence the outcomes of negotiations, often more so than the substantive elements themselves.

Practical Applications and Takeaways

Bob highlights that the skills discussed are transferable across various aspects of life, from professional negotiations to personal relationships.

[100:02] Bob Bourdon: "Negotiation is about influence and persuasion and agency."

The ability to negotiate effectively empowers individuals to advocate for their needs, fostering better relationships and achieving mutually beneficial outcomes.

Conclusion and Final Key Takeaways

Paula summarizes the conversation with three key takeaways:

1. Empathy and Assertiveness Together: Effective negotiators balance deep understanding of others with clear advocacy for themselves.
   [103:05] Bob Bourdon: "Folks who are both empathic and assertive tend to get better outcomes in negotiations."

2. Three-Part Preparation Framework: Preparing for negotiations through Mirror Work, Chair Work, and Table Work builds confidence and leads to better results.
   [14:00] Bob Bourdon: "Mirror work is about naming each of these sides of yourself that are in play in this particular conflict."

3. Persist Beyond the First No: When faced with initial resistance, especially when policies are cited, continue to ask questions to explore creative solutions that address both parties' needs.
   [106:59] Bob Bourdon: "They are designed to skedaddle you out of the room... Instead, keep the conversation open."

Bob encourages listeners to view negotiation skills as integral not just for career advancement but for enhancing overall life interactions and relationships.

Resources:

• Bob Bourdon's Website: bobbordone.com
• Conflict Resilience Book: Available at major book retailers.

Upcoming Episode:
Stay tuned for the next episode featuring Bob's co-author, who will discuss the neurological aspects of negotiation.

This episode of Afford Anything equips listeners with actionable strategies to navigate and excel in negotiations, emphasizing the harmonious blend of empathy and assertiveness, thorough preparation, and resilience in the face of challenges.