Why Smart People Still Sabotage Their Own Money, with Tiffany Aliche

Summary

Afford Anything Podcast | "Why Smart People Still Sabotage Their Own Money" with Tiffany Aliche (May 8, 2026)
Host: Paula Pant | Guest: Tiffany Aliche, The Budgetnista

---

Episode Overview

In this rich and candid episode, Paula Pant welcomes back her friend and fellow financial educator Tiffany Aliche—known as “The Budgetnista.” Together, they explore a central paradox in personal finance: why do smart, financially literate people sometimes repeatedly sabotage their own money, even when they know better? Tiffany shares her dramatic journey from financial rock bottom to multi-million dollar success, exposing the deep psychological and emotional underpinnings of money management. She unpacks ideas like "post traumatic broke syndrome," people-pleasing, the disconnect between "enough" and always striving for more, and encourages listeners to think critically about how past experiences and internal narratives shape today's choices.

---

Journey from Financial Crisis to Wholeness

Tiffany’s “Financial Fiasco”

[01:48 – 06:17]

• At age 30, Tiffany hit financial rock bottom—foreclosure, $35k stolen by a trusted friend, $300k total debt, breakup, moving back in with her parents.
• The recession exacerbated everything; feelings of isolation and shame kept her from acting on the financial know-how she already possessed.
• Her support network, particularly a heart-to-heart with her best friend Linda, helped her break through the "shame shield" and start rebuilding.

Notable quote ([05:13] Tiffany):
"The one thing I did have was the knowledge of how to fix it… but shame shielded solutions. So I couldn't see those solutions with the shame. But giving voice to shame helps to relieve you of that shame."

• Used her foundational money knowledge taught by her CFO dad and practical lessons from her mom to start budgeting, side hustling, helping friends.
• The Budgetnista was born from empathy and shared struggle, leading to business success:
  • First six-figure year (gross, took home $50k), then seven-figure, eventually eight-figure years as business grew.

---

The Psychological Disconnect: Why Having More Money Doesn’t Feel Like Enough

Comparing Today's Economy to the Great Recession

[07:44 – 13:59]

• Despite a strong stock market and home equity for asset owners, many feel financially stuck due to:
  • High inflation (peaked at 9.1%)
  • Stagnant job and housing mobility (low wage growth, can’t move or switch jobs easily)
  • The “on-paper” vs. “lived experience” disconnect: asset-rich but cash-poor.
• Shared, global sense of burnout—not just about money, but deeper misalignment and overwhelm from the wider world, amplified by social media overload.

Notable quote ([11:29] Tiffany):
"Burnout is about disconnection between the thing you're doing and the thing you're wanting to do... Yes, on paper, things are good, I guess, but that's not what's actually happening. So there's this disconnect. We're misaligned."

---

Financial Trauma & "Post Traumatic Broke Syndrome"

How Past Scarcity Shapes Present Choices

[18:31 – 26:15]

• Tiffany details how even after high financial achievement, old "scarcity mindset" habits and anxieties persist.
  • Example: She bought investment properties for family, neglecting a dream of a vacation home for herself—even though she could clearly afford it. Out of alignment, driven by an old urge to "take care of everyone else first."
• Realization came after a health scare and a restorative trip to Sedona—her stress was manifesting physically.
• Encourages matching money to dreams, not the other way around; questioning, “What do I actually want?” and recognizing when old scripts drive current behavior.

Notable quote ([21:37] Tiffany):
"Sometimes we forget, like, what's the actual thing you want? You know, you made more than enough for that. Now you're just in stress land. Why?"

---

The 10 Steps to Financial Wholeness

[23:06 – 24:47]

• Tiffany’s framework (detailed in her book Get Good With Money):

  1. Budgeting
  2. Savings
  3. Debt
  4. Credit
  5. Income
  6. Investing (retirement & wealth)
  7. Insurance
  8. Net Worth
  9. Financial Team
  10. Estate Planning

• Stressing “wholeness” (not just wealth)—you can be financially whole on a modest income or financially broken making millions.

• What matters is “mastering your money in the position you are right now.”

---

Resilience: Finding Light Beyond Financial “Truths”

[26:15 – 33:36]

• Tiffany dives into managing pessimism and reframing setbacks.
• Emphasizes that even in bad circumstances, there is usually “another truth available”—she found housing, work, and positives even when broke.
• Pushing back against doom-spiraling:
  • "You want to win at losing. You'll always win that game... What are we going to do?"
• After major loss (her husband’s sudden death), Tiffany applied the same mindset: grief is real, but not the only reality; there are still joys and opportunities.

---

Overcoming People-Pleasing & Self-Exploitation

[38:44 – 49:42]

• Both Paula and Tiffany share candidly about over-giving and “people-pleasing” behaviors that sabotaged their own financial security—even as business owners.
  • Overpaying employees, neglecting their own compensation, or giving too much to friends and family.
• Awareness came painfully, through betrayal or exhaustion; learned to value their own needs and boundaries as much as others.

Notable quote ([49:37] Tiffany):
"The betrayal was you to you. When you said betrayal, I'm not even talking about her. It's you to you."

• People-pleasing is about managing internal anxiety, not truly serving others. Need to “stand in line” for your own blessings, too.

---

The Role of Forgiveness in Money Coaching

[53:28 – 58:41]

• “Post traumatic broke syndrome” is kept alive by self-blame; folks punish themselves for past mistakes (bad investments, poor decisions, over-giving) in subtle ways, withholding good things from themselves.
• The healing process: learning to forgive your past self, recognize growth, and thank your “younger self” for the lessons that now drive your success.

Notable quote ([56:08] Tiffany):
"Sometimes, literally, I have to talk to myself... Ideally, not so great, but did you kill somebody? Like, what are we talking about here? Like, I need you to forgive yourself. You did it from a good place... You can't be mad at her. She put you in this position."

---

New Generational Financial Trauma & “YOLO” Spending

[62:19 – 65:55]

• Younger generations may respond to economic challenges not with frugality, but with nihilism (“YOLO” spending) because the rewards of saving (home ownership, stable future) seem unattainable.
• Tiffany warns about the trap of “self-fulfilling prophecy” if you don’t build basic financial skills—it’s still worth “planting seeds” for tomorrow.

---

Reimagining "The Dream": Defining Your “Anything”

Life Design & “The Perfect Day”

[68:15 – 71:54]

• Tiffany’s therapist has her routinely write out her “perfect day”—not a fantasy life with luxury and excess, but a day filled with meaning, rest, and modest pleasures.
• Realized she didn’t need millions for this; many people already have the means to create what “enough” looks like.

Notable quote ([71:14] Tiffany):
"Get clear on the thing that I want and then match it to the money. Don’t match your money to things just because—because then you’re always just adding more things."

---

Key Takeaways

1. Financial Problems Are Emotional, Not Just Mathematical ([73:38])

   • Most people know what to do, but emotional blocks (especially shame) keep them stuck.
   • "Giving voice to shame helps to relieve you of that shame." ([73:56] Tiffany)

2. Your “Broke Mindset” Doesn’t Vanish with Wealth ([74:53])

   • Past trauma or mistakes can lead to self-sabotage, over-giving, or refusing to use money for your own dreams, even after financial success.
   • Forgiveness of your past self is essential.

3. Design Your Perfect Day—You Might Already Have Enough ([76:31])

   • Focus on what actually brings joy and satisfaction; you may discover you don’t need to keep chasing “more.”
   • Real wealth is the freedom to choose your priorities, not just net worth.

---

Memorable Quotes

• “The betrayal was you to you.” ([49:37] Tiffany)
• “Shame shields solutions…giving voice to shame helps to relieve you of that shame.” ([05:13])
• “Get clear on the thing you want and then match it to the money.” ([71:14])
• “Post traumatic broke syndrome is the lack of forgiveness of that version of myself.” ([54:11])

---

Resource Links

• Get Good With Money (Tiffany’s book): getgoodwithmoney.com
• Connect with Tiffany: The Budgetnista on all social media platforms

---

For more frameworks, tools, and rich personal finance discussions, subscribe to Afford Anything.

---

Summary prepared for listeners who want every insight but don’t have an hour. For more on personal finance psychology, revisit the timestamps above for direct, memorable moments.

Transcript

[A]

For most people, knowing what to do with money is not the problem. Most of us know what to do, but there are psychological reasons. There are blocks that we have, mental blocks that are keeping us from doing the things that we know we should. Joining us today to discuss this is Tiffany Alice, also known as the budget Nista. When she was 30, she hit financial rock bottom. She lost her house to foreclosure. A friend stole 35,000 from her. On her 30th birthday, she was sleeping in her childhood bedroom in her middle school bedroom. Since then she has turned her life around. She has made grossed more than $50 million. 5050 million as a business owner and she is here to talk about that turnaround. She's also my co star in the Netflix documentary Get Smart with Money. She and I, we were two of the four financial coaches that were featured in that along with Mr. Money Mustache and Ross Mack from YouTube. Welcome to the Afford Anything podcast. The show that knows you can afford anything, not everything. This show covers five financial psychology, increasing your income, investing, real estate and entrepreneurship acronym Double I fire. I'm your host, Paula Pant. My friend, my Netflix co star Tiffany Alice is here to talk about how to deal with financial mistakes and how to break through the mental barriers that keep us from doing what we know we need to do when it comes to managing our money. Hi, Tiffany.

[B]

Hey, Paula.

[A]

Great to see you here again.

[B]

Yeah, great to be seen.

[A]

When you were 30, you hit rock bottom financially, emotionally, and then by 37, you were a millionaire.

[B]

Isn't that crazy?

[A]

That's incredible. Take us along that journey.

[B]

By 30. What happened is I experienced what I like to call Tiffany's financial fiasco. It really started like in my mid-20s. Good things. Well, I purchased a condo for $220,000. I got my master's in education. I was a school teacher for 10 years. The master's was about $50,000. And I decided I wanted to learn to invest. And I was young enough to believe that if someone looked like they had money, they had money. And so I met a friend that I like to call Jake. We call him Jake the thief. Now, his name is not Jake, but I met a friend and we'd been friends for some years before I asked him to teach me to invest. Instead, he stole $35,000 from me and left me in that kind of like $35,000 worth of credit card debt. As a result, I purchased my condo right before the recession. I didn't understand economic indicators that people were getting bad loans. And I, I Mean, I don't think anyone really saw it. That's why we had the recession triggered by the housing market.

[A]

What year did you purchase the condo?

[B]

I purchased, I want to say, 2006 or 7. So literally, I know I purchased it in, like, 2006 or something like that for 220. By 2009, 10, it was worth 150.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Like, over $100,000 lost. Boom. Just like that. And it was foreclosed upon. During that Tiffany's financial fiasco, I had my college boyfriend. We had been dating about six years, like, in college. And in a few years after we were supposed to get married, we broke up. I ended up moving back home with my parents. I spent my 30th birthday in my middle school bedroom. And I remember thinking I had more money when I was 14 sleeping in this bed than I do now at 30. To make matters worse, I. At the time, I still had the condo. I said, I'm going to rent it to another friend to. To pay the mortgage. And that friend proceeded to never pay. So it was like, what's. I remember thinking, what is actually happening? I am in $300,000 worth of debt. I have no real income other than unemployment, which doesn't cover hardly anything. I'm renting out a condo that this person's not paying me for. I really felt like a loser, essentially, you know, And I was calling myself everything but nice names, like, oh, my God, Tiffany, look what you've done. You have nothing. You're 30. You're supposed to be super adult at 30. You're like a kid. You're back home. It was in that time that I was kind of spiraling downward, and my best friend called me because I'd been avoiding her. She kind of was like, what's going on with you? I can tell something's wrong. And I broke down in tears and told her how during that time, I lost my job. I was in all this debt. I. I'm. I'm gonna lose the condo. This person's not paying me my rent. And it's just everything I had, like, this credit card debt just to spiral downward. And she was like. Well, she started laughing, and I was like, I don't. What's so funny? She was like, girl, I'm calling you from my mother's couch. Because we were all the same age in our 20s, you know, and she's like, and such and such is also back home and such and such. So basically sharing. She's like, we didn't have the word recession at the time, you know, but she was like, essentially everyone is in a bad space. I don't know why. And I kind of looked up and realized like, oh, I'm not alone in the mistakes of it all. And the one thing I did have was the knowledge of how to fix it. Because I'd grown up with a father who was a cfo, a chief financial officer and an accountant. He taught my sisters and I about the academics of money. This is literally how you save, budget, get out of debt, invest. My mom, who was a nurse, taught us the application of money. When we go food shopping, here's how you negotiate for a new car. And so I had those skillsets, but shame shield solutions. So I couldn't see those solutions with the shame. But giving voice to shame helps to relieve you of that shame. So me telling Linda, my best friend, helped me to see, like, wait, I do know how to budget. And say, you know what, I might not have a job right now, but I could babysit, I could tutor, I could. So I started to make a little bit of money and help my friends who are navigating financial distress like me. Well, like, you don't have much, but let me show you how to budget with what you do have. Let me show you how to start working on that credit and that debt and the budget. Nista was really kind of like born from that place of empathy and fixing myself and helping to fix my friends. And it started to grow. And I want to say by 35 or 34, 35, I had my first six figure year. By 36, I had my first seven figure year and officially like became at least asset wise, a millionaire. And by 40, I had my first eight figure year and that's when I could actually see the seven figures, like in a bank account. So.

[A]

So when you say six figure, you mean top line gross revenue.

[B]

Top line gross. So I think I My first six figure year I made 150, but took home 50.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

Because, you know, yeah, running a business.

[B]

Yes, Exactly. Like at 37, if I looked at all my assets, I would say, oh, I'm worth, quote, unquote, a million dollars. I. But by 40, really it was like, oh, I see a million dollars. Because by then I had my eight figure year, so I actually took home several million and like, you know, like take home, like not top line net. It just was a testament to that. Things can change, you know, at 30, I thought, I'm stuck here. This is it, I've made a mistake and it'll Never. It's almost like you cut your hair and you cry. Maybe the, maybe the hairdresser cuts your hair and you cry. It's like, you know, hair grows but you're like, you feel like it doesn't grow. You know it, but it feels like it's gonna always look like this. And then one day you're like, oh, my hair's back to where it was like literally around that time. I cut my hair to my shoulders. Now it's mid back. It's like, oh, over time, things can change for the better. And they have for me and for so many people that I've helped through the budget.

[A]

Nista so at that time we were in the recession. There was this shared experience that a lot of people were having because so many people at that time lost jobs, lost housing. It was a recession. It was the Great Recession with the greatest recession of our lifetime. To a certain extent, there's a feeling of something similar.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Happening now. And now is a particularly interesting time because on paper, things look good. Yeah, on paper, the stock market is doing well. People who purchased homes prior to the pandemic have a lot of home equity that they've grown. So on paper, for anyone who owns index funds or real estate, things look really good. And yet a lot of people, including asset holders, feel broke. Can you kind of reflect on this moment in time and how that compares to the recession?

[B]

It's crazy because I feel like prior to the recession or even into the recession, people felt like more hopeful, which is crazy than they do now because I think we had never seen anything like that. So we were like, oh, it can't be that bad. Oh, it can't be that bad. Oh, it wasn't until we really hit like, it really. People started losing their homes and they were like, okay. But now I feel like there's just been a growing descent just because there's political unrest. You know, we're currently basically at war and inflation was at a all time high. Not maybe not right now, but at one point, like, you know, about this time last year was like, crazy. People were like, I can't afford it. Used to be I could tell people, I'm looking at your budget. Do you really need to get your nails done every two weeks? We're not, I'm not having that conversation. We're talking about eggs and bread now. You know, people are not able to afford the basic things where we're not. We're choosing between medicine and rent. You know, truly what's happening is like the haves have even more and the have a little, have even less. So it's not even the have nots. It's like if you were kind of like, oh, you know, I'm not so bad. There's been a drain on you. We know that the employment market is basically stagnant right now. So people are not even like, oh, I'm gonna leave for another job that pays me more. You're like, I can't leave for another job. There is no other job. It's not what actually might be happening. But sentiment counts for a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's a sentiment of dissatisfaction, I feel like, of overwhelm. There's division and not just in this country. The social media shows you there's so many countries are experiencing the same divide, you know, and so I just think people just in general are just unhappy. And money, you know, having access to money doesn't fix that necessarily. And people are not having access to money. So it's a different approach has to be had than just and here's how you budget and save. There has to be something else. And I've been exploring it for myself because I've been feeling the same. I'm like, you have plenty and yet you feel like you don't. What's the dissatisfaction coming from Tiffany? What is it that you really need external to money? You know, I've been just infusing that back into the business and into the budget. Nisa. So I can be a better service leader to the people on my team, but the people that we serve.

[A]

Yeah, I think about this every day. What are the unique characteristics that you could use to describe this moment in time? As you mentioned, super high inflation. Inflation peaked at 9.1%. On paper you might have 401k assets, but that's locked up, you can't touch it. So in your day to day life, that doesn't really matter. Same thing with home equity. On paper, cool. You've got some home equity but you can't move because maybe you're locked into a 3% mortgage and you don't want to trade a 3% for a 6%. So you don't have mobility. And then there's also with a stagnant job market, you can't get another job. So like lack of mobility in terms of both jobs and housing coupled with high inflation and I think a lot about why is it that on paper people's net worths are higher, but in lived experience it doesn't feel like that?

[B]

Well, I think that it's like internal External. So, like, internally, yes, things are okay, but it's almost like you're healthy on the inside. I don't have asthma. I'm not pre diabetic. But literally the place that I'm living is on fire. So you can be quote unquote healthy. But if the environment is not healthy, then there's a mismatch. What I've learned about burnout, because I was really burnt out, like last year and early this year that I thought I was like, I'm just working too much. And I wasn't actually working too much. Burnout is about disconnection between the thing you're doing and the thing you're wanting to do, you know? So, yes, on paper. So I think we're experiencing, like this global kind of burnout, if you will. Like, yes, on paper, things are good, I guess, but that's not what's actually happening. So there's this disconnect. We're misaligned. And so you can feel the misalignment. And so as a result, it's like, things are not good. I don't care what it looks like, it's not what it feels like, if that makes sense, you know? Yeah, that's what we're experiencing, that people are feeling this disconnect from what is, I guess, on paper happening versus what is in real life, actually what it's feeling like. And that's not always true. I remember, like, I'm a kid of the 80s, so I remember, like, you know, the boom of the 80s, you know what I mean? Where it's like the paper felt like what's happening outside, you know what I mean? Or you remember the recession, it made sense at least, because you're like, on paper it's a mess, but outside is also a mess. And I think it's actually worse in some ways because it's like, what's happening because it's good, I guess, but it's not good. Basically, it's a financial disconnect from, like, actual life. And so I'm trying to figure that out for myself. I mean, one of the reasons why I wrote Get Good with Money is because I wanted to give people not the opportunity to grow wealth, you know, or to be wealthy. That's great, if that's what you want. But to be healthy financially, you know, I believe in what I call financial wholeness, which is no matter what's happening on paper, that you have a solid place to land financially. And so when I was writing Get Go With Money, I was thinking about what are the steps people need to take. So there's like 10 to really have a solid place. And. And it's help. It's helping me through these, like, weird, disconnected financial times. That's what I want for other people, is to. To be able to realign themselves, no matter what's happening externally. Because that's what I've been working on for myself. Like, okay, how do I make the paper me fit the actualized me?

[A]

Right, right. Yeah, yeah. And the disconnection makes sense because. Yeah. The whole thing feels so disconnected because

[B]

you'll literally see, like, on TikTok or Instagram. Oh, a bomb. And then the next TikTok is someone being like, get ready with me as I go to the Met Gala. And then the next one is like, so I cut my hair. I'm not sure if I like it, guys. It's like you're dissociated because you're just like, what's actually happening? I think that's the question. What's actually happening? And what's crazy is all of it. So many psychologists I've seen have said that we were not meant to see all of it simultaneously. We're not meant to see the bombs and the halls and the get ready with me and the war and the extravagance and the death and destruction and the poverty at the same time. At this magnitude, we have not evolved like technology is evolving faster than our brains to be able to hold it all. We're not supposed to actually hold it all. And we're trying. And I think, you know, I know you and I talk offline about taking social media off our phones because you're recognizing I'm not able to hold it all. I'm not supposed to hold it all. It's impossible. And it's affecting me mentally, emotionally, but also financially. I think the wellness industry is booming because. Because people are trying to solve for the. How do I manage it all? Like, I don't want to manage stress. Isn't that crazy? No one says, ugh, okay, Paula, we're going to do some cancer management. No, no. We're trying to get rid of cancer.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

It's not cancer management. Like, we're not trying to get rid of this cancer. We're just trying to day by day, until. Until it kills you. So I told myself, no more stress management. Stress is a cancer I want to eliminate. Just like cancer. The purpose is to try to eliminate stress. It's crazy because sometimes when I've made the most is when I'VE been distressed, you know, the most stressed. So I got myself this oura ring, which shout out to my HSA account because I was gonna pay for it with that, you know, if you don't have your health savings account, health spending account. Okay. It's like triple tax benefit, you know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I got this oura ring, and I have my apple watch, which also I got with my HSA account, because I could feel myself getting stressed, but I wanted to see, like, what was really happening. This thing was like, are you okay? Like, week one, I was like, maybe I need to give it some time. So I've had it for, like, two months now. And the first two months of the year, it was like, stress, extreme stress, extreme. And I just was like, I feel fine, though. I feel fine. Check. My blood pressure spiked. I'm like, I feel fine, I feel fine. Then my back went out, and I was like, wait a minute, Tiffany. And I hadn't lifted anything. I wasn't in the gym at that time. I just woke up and boom, Couldn't stand up. I said, is this stress? My body was like, what? What else do we need to take from you? No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is why your finances are so important. I was able to take a week off. I went to Sedona. Sedona is one of the most peaceful, beautiful places in Sedona. I was able to go to the Grand Canyon for a little while. I need to go someplace that was bigger than what I perce my issues to be. I went to Antelope Canyon, which is really beautiful. It's on Native American land. And there's something Sedona. There's a vortex there where it's only found, like, seven other places in the world where there's, like, this negative ionic charge or something that radiates from the ground. And apparently it's the same charge that pumps your heart. So there's a deep feeling of connectedness there. So I turned off all the noise. No podcast, no music, except for in the car when I was driving, but not in my. Like, I rented a place off the Airbnb. I wanted to sit kind of in silence and get connected to nature and myself and to just hear what did I need to do. Instantly, blood pressure went back to normal. One night there, I woke up in the morning. I bought this blood pressure machine because I was worried. Blood pressure back to normal, 120 over 80. I was like, okay. My Oura ring was like, oh, you seem. Because it was like every day it said, stress, stress, stress. And it was saying, relaxed, engaged, relaxed, restored, relaxed. And I said one day there. And at first I thought, is it me living in Newark? But I realized it was the way I was navigating work and money was causing this disconnect for, like, how I actually wanted to live my life. So I'll give you a really good example. I've been wanting to buy a house upstate New York for a long time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I love upstate New York. It's really pretty. I wanted. I've always wanted to buy a vacation home. I own a condo, and I know own a home in Jersey. My sister and her kids live in the home. They pay for their carrying, the carrying cost. And so that home cost me nothing. It's great. After my husband passed away, sadly in 2021, suddenly from an aneurysm, I didn't want to live in that house anymore because it just reminded me so much. Cause we renovated it together. So I bought a condo around the corner. He left me a lot of insurance money. Love that condo. And I said, I really want to get a house upstate New York. I really want to get. But I kept saying, oh, I don't know if I have the funds, even though I know I do. But I was like, well, maybe. Maybe I'll make more before I do. So then two other properties became available in my building. And so I bought them within a week. One, I said, for my other two sisters, because I wanted them to live next to me. And another one was really, really inexpensive because, like, it was a woman who was just, like, in her 90s. She's like, I just don't want to live here anymore. Or she had multiple properties. She was just selling them. It had been empty, like, 20 years. And so I bought that property, too. And I said, oh, I'll buy this for my stepdaughter after she has raised college to have a place to live because she's staying with me now, going to school now. Meanwhile, I told myself those two properties caused so much stress for me because it was renovating. One of them had, like, leaks. It was just so much stress and more financial output than I had anticipated.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I just told myself, my friend was like, I thought you said you couldn't afford your house upstate New York. I'm like, no, not by now. She said, what? These two homes combined are more than that. Plus the renovation, almost twice as much. And that's when I was like, I'm out of alignment. I'm financially, mentally, emotionally out of alignment. So how you navigate mentally, emotionally navigates to your finances, Because I did not. I could not see that I was spending in a way that actually didn't. No one asked me to buy them anything. It wasn't like my sisters are homeless. You know what I mean? They all have their own apartments. My stepdaughter's in school. She's only a sophomore. She still has two, maybe three more years before she's going to need. Even if then she probably will have a job and can pay for it herself. But for me, money is this trigger of, like, I got to take care of everybody that no one asked for, and I'm not taking care of myself. And I was like, tiffany, you could have had your house. So anyway, so that's one of the, I guess, realignments I'm trying to do with myself. Like, what is it that you actually want? I think money should follow aside from taking care of your needs. Money should follow the dreams and goals. Because sometimes we make the dream and goal the money and say, I'll do more things when I have the money. But instead I'm asking myself, what. What's the thing that you want to do and match the money to that so you don't have to do more?

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean? It's like, oh, you want a house upstate in New York? It's going to cost $400,000. Well, what do you need to do to get to that place? You make the four. That's it. Versus making a million, two million, three. And you've overworked yourself and you've exceeded what you've needed for the actual thing you want. Does that make sense?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Sometimes we forget, like, what's the actual thing you want? You know, you made more than enough for that. Now you're just in stress land. Why? That's one of the things that I'm navigating. I know that's not an issue for everybody, you know, because I know I've been broke. Broke when it's like, girl, I'm just trying to pay my bills, you know? But I think I'm so navigating from that, Tiffany, where it's like, girl, you got to do what you got to do. I'm like, yeah, we're not her anymore.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're not 30 and broke and sleeping in your middle school bed. When does that activate to the Tiffany you are now?

[A]

Yeah, it's hard to shed that scarcity mindset, you know, because, like, it imprints on you when you're young, you know, and so that imprint is always there.

[B]

Yeah, I Call it my post traumatic broke syndrome. I can't go back. I can't. It's like, you're not going to go back there. It would take a lot. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it would take a lot for me to go back there. And so one of the things that does help is having a plan in place. And I'd say, I think that's why I wrote Get Good with Money, because I have the financial plan in place to help partially relieve some of that stress. And another thing I've done is I have an amazing certified financial planner. And so when I'm like, oh my gosh, she'll pull me back in and say, that's why we have the plan. The plan is working. So the 10 steps to financial wholeness are budgeting, number one, then debt, credit, income. So I like to call it the foundational five.

[A]

Mm. So let's just go through that again. So number one, budgeting, number two, savings,

[B]

number three, debt, credit and income. So mastering those five things, that's your foundation.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. Then after you master that's really making money and managing money. And the other half is maintaining and protecting. Right. So it is investing for both retirement and wealth. It is insurance that's protection. It is your financial team that's managing. Right. Also too net worth. You get to kind of check in to see where you are financially on your journey. And estate planning. Right. So those are the next five. And so I having that. So when I wrote Kick it with Money, Those are the 10 chapters and those are the 10 things where if you master it, I remind myself, tiffany, you're financially whole. It would take a lot for you. I'm not talking about wealthy because you can be financially whole as a preschool teacher making $40,000 a year. And you could be a financial mess, you know, financially broken as a business owner making $10 million a year.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Financial wholeness is just managing and mastering those 10 things where you are. So I'll give you an example, Paula. Like, it might mean when I was 20, estate planning for 20 year olds on the financial wholeness journey is my mom is my beneficiary on my bank account. That's estate planning. When you're 20, you know, at 46, estate planning is I have a trust and my properties are in there and my business is in there. And so it's not about, like reaching a certain elevation. It's where you are mastering your money in the position where you are right now.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that helped to alleviate some of this stress and then also having an external person to hold the mirror and say, you're okay.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's like a therapist. Right? Because I have a therapist. Right. You okay, Tiffany? Whatever. That's actually not true, you know, because Dr. Green, my therapist, sometimes will ask me when I'm, like, spiraling, she'll say, is that true? I'm like, it is true. Because I'm like. She's like, is it the only truth available? Is it true that maybe, like, the renovation is costing you more than you anticipated? Yes. So I'm stressed out about that. Is it the only truth available? Like, what else? Well, the other truth is. And you can still afford the excess. You see what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So it's like, okay, so are you gonna be homeless because of this extra $20,000 that you spent on renovation? No. Oh, so it's not the only truth available. So you could ask yourself, even preschool teacher Tiffany, like, for example, when I lost everything and I was moving back home with my parents. Right. Is it true that you're going through foreclosure, you don't have a job, you have all this debt? Yes. Is it the only truth available? I have a safe place to live and food to eat because, thankfully, I could stay with my sister on her couch or move back home with my parents. And so it's like, okay. And so even in the worst periods, asking myself, what else is available and true here?

[A]

Right?

[B]

So we're not discounting the fact that, like, this is not true. You know, I'm broke or I overspent or my credit is bad or my debt is high. But there are other truths available. There's a wider picture here that we can focus on those things too.

[A]

Right, Right, Exactly. It's a gift to have a healthy enough, close enough and healthy enough relationship with your parents or your siblings to be able to stay with them when you need to.

[B]

And sometimes, too, because for some people, like, oh, but at one point, I rented a room for $500. So is it true that, like, I lost my house? Is it the only truth available? No. A friend of mine who was also a teacher said, hey, there's this home where this woman's renting to teachers $500 a month. So that was also a truth. So, yes, maybe I wouldn't been able to stay with my mom or dad or my sisters, but it's like, I was able to find this place where I'm like, all right, I'm living like a kid again. Even though I'm 40, I'm 32 at the time, you know, but that was also a truth available. And I remember thinking, like, another truth was, is it true that I really can't afford my bills? Yes. Is it the only truth available? The house that we were renting was right next door to the public library. And if I sat in the dining room, right against the wall, I got Internet for free. But you know what I mean? But this is what I mean about. Because if you only sit in the darkness of it. You know what I mean? Is there any light available? Is what we're basically asking.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know, is there any light available? Well, you know, my sister said that, you know, I could babysit and make extra money on the weekends. Okay. Is there any light available? Well, thankfully, I live in a place where the weather's pretty mild, so everybody else, like, their energy bills are so high. But I live in this kind of moderate place where my, thankfully, I don't have to pay. My energy bill's not as high, you know? Like, is it the only truth available? Well, I have a bunch of friends that work at the specific job where I could probably get a job. They might not pay as much as my other job, but at least I could start there to get on my feet. So looking external to, like, just the one truth that's bringing you down, and that's really what it takes to, like, not only just get good with money, but get good with life.

[A]

Right? This sounds like the antidote to financial pessimism.

[B]

Yeah, because I know people tell me all the time, like, they're like, oh, good for you, Tiffany. But. And I get it. I'll say like, oh, but you could stay with your parents. I don't have that. I understand that. And you had your sister. I understand. And I can't find a place that's $500. I understand, but I promise you, you have something that I probably didn't have access to. You know, maybe you live in a city where jobs are abound and they're easy. If you live in New York, yes, it's more expensive. But you might live in Kansas, where it's like, for me to get to work, I have to have a car, and I don't have one right here. You don't need one. Yeah, that's a huge expense taken off. Do you see what I mean? It's not the only truth available. You know, this place is so populated where it's like, you might not be able to get the job you want, but I promise you, somebody is hiring. But in Kansas, maybe it's like, the other truths available is like, well, the cost of living is significantly lower. Do you see there's other light to be found and can you lean into that to rebuild your journey to financial wholeness? Is the question. And I believe so. Because if not, what? So when someone is giving me the pushback and they're like, well, I don't have this and I don't have that, I'm like, you win.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

Life sucks. You win. Life is terrible. Yeah, you win. Here's the prize for the worst life ever. Like, what is it that you're wanting? You want to win at losing. You'll always win that game. At one point, I had to tell myself, Tiffany, like, I get it, all these things are wrong. Like, when my husband passed away, I was like, what the actual hell? I wanted to flip the tables. I wanted to shut everything down. I wanted to leave. I didn't want to wake up anymore. And it's like, you, you can have that, Tiffany. If you want, you can have that. But you're still here. So, like, what are we going to do? I remember I was like, oh, my God. That's why I would wake up in the morning, I'd be like, why? Why? None of this matters anymore. And I thought, now I'm just like, well, it's not the only truth available. Your parents are here, your sisters are here, your nieces, your nephew Alyssa, your stepdaughter's here. You know, you have so many people that you serve. It took a while to get to that place of the loss of Jerrelle is not the only truth available. So as someone who's lost big, I can say it's not the only truth available. It took a lot to get there, a lot of therapy, a lot. But there are other joys to be had. And I believe that, you know, one day, I mean, obviously one day everyone goes to the other side, whatever that other side looks like, you know, whatever your faith practice is, that's gonna happen one way or the other. In the meantime, what can we do here? I don't wanna win. And proclaiming a terrible life and saying, woo, woo, I won. I want to fiercely defend and go after the best life imaginable. And that includes money. You know, that's why I love the name of your podcast, Afford Anything. It's like, but what's the anything? Is it the house? Upstate New York? Is it the ability to start your day at 10 so you could take a morning walk at your favorite park? Is it travel with your family and friends? Is it being able to afford therapy? Is it being able to be a philanthropist? What is the thing that you're wanting to afford? And then how do you use money as one of the tools to have that best life available to you?

[A]

Right. What would you say to somebody who says, I don't know what my anything is? I have too many anythings. There's too much that I want to do, and. And I can't choose. And it all adds up to more than what's realistic.

[B]

So, one, I want you to think about your life like a movie. And there's different storylines. You can't live every storyline, because in one storyline I was like a basketball player. And another storyline I was a doctor. And another storyline I was better. Think about when you're a kid and you're like, oh, I want to do this and this. And I remember one time I told my niece, because I do. They live around the corner for me. So once a month, I have a Roman or Amelia Day. So this is just like when that child gets to choose what we do that day. And of course, their sister or brother gets to come along, but because I wanted them to have some autonomy and not just, like, especially for Roman. Cause Amelia is kind of bossy. So I really started it for him. So he can choose. What do you want to do today? I remember one day for Amelia Day, she was listing everything. She was writing it out, and on it it said mars. And I said, what is that? She's like, I want to go to Mars. I'm like, but I was writing about space in school. And I was like, well, I can't do that. But that's a storyline. Yeah, you can certainly write those things down. But I want you to tell yourself, even if you were the richest, even if you had the most power, you're not gonna be able to live every storyline. That's just not how that works.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you get to say, okay, well, which one intrigues me the most? You know what I mean? Like, well, we're not gonna go to Mars, Emelia. But you have ice cream shop on here. We could do that.

[A]

Maybe there's a space museum.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

The Air and Space Museum in dc. Plan a weekend for that.

[B]

And sometimes when what you're telling yourself, when it's like, I have too many things, really, it's just procrastination and fear is what I really hear. Maybe you need to sit in some silence for a little while and ask yourself, what is it that I really want to explore next? Because you are going to Live at least some of your storylines. Nobody starts at zero and just has this one track toward I'm a doctor now and that's it. That's all I've ever be. No, everyone has side quests. You know, it's part of life. So I would just encourage someone to say, I acknowledge that there are a million storylines. I'm not going to be able to live all of them, but some of them. And which one intrigues me the most right now? So I can lean into that one.

[A]

Okay, so I was just at campfi, this gathering of people who are really interested in financial independence. There was a night when we were all, I'm not. I'm totally serious. I'm not joking. We were all standing around talking about how much we loved Quince. See, that was like a whole conversational thread. It started because we were all taking a walk and one person was cold and I was like, oh, I've got an extra sweater. And I actually had two extra sweaters with me. And so I, like gave her a choice. And they were both quints. And that's what got the conversation started. And then everybody started chiming in with, like the quints that they've got. If you're looking for clothing that is high quality and durable and super affordable and just a great value, it's quints. Everything at Quint is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality and craftsmanship, but not for brand markup. If you're looking for summer stuff, they've got lightweight linen pants and dresses and tops starting at 30 bucks. They're very breathable. They're lightweight. Personally, my favorite stuff is all of their cashmere. Cashmere sweaters, cashmere pants. If you look at the vast majority of my YouTube videos, I'd say probably 99 out of 100 videos, I'm wearing quints. I'm wearing either a silk shirt from Quince or I'm wearing a cashmere sweater from Quints, or I'm wearing pants. They've got jeans. Also, like work tailored workplace pants. If you look at pretty much any YouTube video, I'm wearing at least one, if not multiple quince items in them. Refresh your everyday with luxury. You'll actually use head to quince.com Paula for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Paula for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com Paula P A U L A I live in an apartment in Manhattan so I don't have any outdoor space. Not even a patio or anything like that. Which is why when I visit friends in other cities that have outdoor spaces, I I appreciate how just a few choice items can really elevate a space like furniture. String, lights, good patio lighting, even an outdoor rug. These are the things that really turn a space into something inviting. An outdoor space. And you can find an incredible selection at Wayfair. Whether your vibe is modern, coastal, farmhouse, eclectic, Wayfair has options to to help you create an outdoor space that is uniquely yours. They've got everything in one place. Outdoor seating, grills, major appliances, storage. Wayfair is your one stop shop for home. There are over 20 million verified 5 star reviews that help you make the right call. And you can shop with Wayfair Verified, which is your shortcut to good stuff. They have a team of product specialists that vets everything by hand hand using a 10 point quality inspection so you know that you're getting a quality piece no matter your budget. I have many many items from Wayfair. I've got shelving, I've got a daybed, I have chairs that I purchased for my parents new home, swivel chairs for the kitchen and for one of my rental properties I just got exterior wall sconces. From them I found a really modern looking one at a great price. Low profile floor, flat brushed nickel finish. So get prepped for patio season. For way less head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair every style Every Home Wayfair Every Style Every Home in business, there's no room for guesswork. Every shipment matters. Every deadline counts when you're trying to keep operations running smoothly. And the last thing you need is uncertainty. That's why reliability is at the core of USPS Ground Advantage. From the moment your package is first scanned in, it moves through a secure nationwide network, aiding in a timely and accurate delivery. You get near real time tracking so you can keep up with your shipments and with affordable upfront pricing. There are no hidden fees or surprise surcharges to throw off your cost sheets. It all adds up to predictable deliveries you can depend on, because knowing your logistics are handled lets you focus on everything else your customers, your team and the future you're building. Visit usps.com groundadvantage to start shipping with confidence. USPS Ground Advantage we mean business. I want to go back to talking about post traumatic broke syndrome. As soon as you said it, it resonated so much as you've described. You went from being totally broke at 30, you know, now you're 46. You made over 10 million gross in one year.

[B]

I would say total in business, I'm between probably 50 to 60 million dollars.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Isn't that crazy? Mm.

[A]

That's incredible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you. I know. Crazy to say now this is gross. I don't have $50 million. I wish I did.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a top line gross of cumulatively 50 is just. Yeah, that's tremendous. It's enormous. What feelings does it bring up for you in terms of fears, insecurities, uncertainties? Well, I guess I'm just focusing on the negative. What positive feelings does it bring up as well? But like. Yeah, what is the range of emotions that it brings up and how does that post traumatic broke syndrome show up in.

[B]

Well, it brings up, I guess the negative feelings that it brings up. Is that because I've given almost so much of it away for, like, what I actually have left, I. It's nominal. It's not for me. I don't have to work anymore. But not what you would think from, like, grossing 50. And not because I was frivolous as far as, like, overspending, but I felt guilty about the earning, and so I overpaid here. I did this, I did that. I gave this, I gave that. I bought this person for this. At one point in my business, for five years, I didn't let it pay me because I was like, I have enough, I have enough. I'll just pay everybody else. I had a 30 person team. Why? There were people who weren't doing any work. And I knew it. But I'm like, she's got a family and she's so that. I was doing a lot of that. So it brought up feelings of guilt, of excess because I didn't grow up. My parents are immigrants from Nigeria. They immigrated here, got their citizenship, had five girls. So it felt excessive. You don't need all this, Tiffany. And I didn't need all of this, but I didn't have to navigate it that way. That was still wasteful to pay someone who's not doing work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I could have retained that money, maybe built a school somewhere. Then it brings up a source of pride for myself that, like, you really turned it around, Tiffany. Sometimes I'm really like, wow, you did it. You know, you really thought you couldn't do it. But you did it. You thought, like, how? And I wasn't. That was never my aim. I never thought, one day I want to make $50 million. I just wanted to pay bills. And I'm like, not only did you do it, you did it with integrity, with kindness. No one can ever say I cheated them. No one can ever say I mistreated them. Even some of the people we've had to let go. Even if you're a vendor, people leave with severance packages that they're not supposed to get them. I had someone in the business steal from me. Essentially, they were stealing time. But I knew she was disabled, and I knew she was struggling, and I understood why she was stealing time. It wasn't personal. It's because she was struggling financially. And so when we found out, I was like, you can't stay here. But we've helped her to find a new job. And I gave her, like, three or four months worth of severance. People would be like, girl, that's a thief. It's not. It's a woman who's having a hard time. To me, anyway.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so, like, the way I've been able to make that kind of money, I feel proud about. You know, I sleep well at night knowing that even if I overdid it and overspent and. And over gave to people, it was always from a place of goodness. And so it brings that up in me. And also, there's a bunch of this awe. Cause I'm just like, whoa. Like, I can sit in my own silo sometimes, but sometimes when I exit it and I share numbers or share what's happened, and people are like, whoa, Tiffany. I'm like, wait, that is a big deal. So there's a sense of, like, why me? How did I. I mean, there's a lot of smart people. Yeah, I'm smart, but I'm not genius, you know? Yeah, I work hard, but lots of people work hard. So there's also kind of like, what divine magic sprinkle sauce fell on me for whatever reason? Because there are people who I know who work just as hard, if not harder. And then I'm also really grateful. I'm really grateful because it changed the trajectory of my life. Not just mine, but the way I'm able to be there for my family and friends in tangible way when needed. Like my mom, she was a nurse, and she still had a few more years left before retirement officially. But I could tell she was tired. The only thing holding them back was the house. My dad is older than my Mom. And they had taken out a second mortgage to send the youngest of my sisters to grad school. So that was the last thing holding her back, because they were still paying off that mortgage. And I was like, well, what if I paid that mortgage off? It was $120,000, which was basically all my savings back then. Cause it was like when I just started making money and I paid it off. And I'm so grateful to be able to have done that for her and for my parents, you know. And so there's a gratefulness there. Even my sister, she and her two kids were living in kind of like a smaller apartment. And Jerrel and I, my late husband and I always talked about when Alyssa, my stepdaughter, goes to college, you know, maybe we'll live someplace else and Carol and the kids can live here. And that's what happened. Like, I bought this new place. I told Alyssa, wherever I go, you always have a place with me. She has a room. I never thought that she would live with me and live with me again. But she decided like, I don't like living on campus. She's the only child, so, so spoiled. So she's like, living with me. Living with me, which I love. And my sister and her kids get this house that they used to come to every day after school. Cause they lived like around the corner. They love that house. They each have their own room. They have a homework room and a kid's cave, which is my husband's man cave back then a backyard. It's a 10 minute walk from their school. And so to be able to do that, I'm so grateful. That's to me, it's what money is really about at this stage of my life. A friend of mine had this beautiful nonprofit where every year he does back to school book bags and turkey giveaways during Thanksgiving. And. And he was like, oh, I'm short of my fundraising efforts. And I was able to be like, oh, I'm gonna send you money. I have this thing called a donate advised fund for those who don't know. It's like a nonprofit before the nonprofit.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So if you're like, I wanna donate. Not sure who. So you basically donate not to yourself, but to like an external nonprofit version of yourself. It's a holding space where you get the tax benefit now and then when you're like, oh, I figured out where I wanna send it. Cause you can't ever take that money back. Right, right. So you figure out where you wanna send it and then you can send it to the nonprofit when you're ready. And every year I put money into it, anticipating something will come up and I'm like, oh, oh, you and you and you and you. Yeah, you know, and so I was able to close the gap for him for the donor advice fund. So there's a gratefulness of like the ability to really give of myself and my resources because of the business and the money that I've accumulated.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I did something similar when my business started taking off. Our peak years were 2020 and 2021. When that happened, it felt so surreal. And so why me? And I overpaid people. I really overpaid people. And I actually look back and I regret it because I was too much of a softie. I let myself get walked on. I didn't have a strong sense of authority. And, you know, if I had had more firm boundaries, I could have put it in my donor advised fund. Putting that money in my donor advised fund would have been a better use of it. You know, it would have been a much better use of it instead of like letting myself get walked all over, which is what actually happened.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I didn't honestly wake up from the walk all over until Jerrell passed away. And there were people who I was paying that were like, yeah, yeah, am I gonna get my bonus? I'm like, what? These people who like, literally I gave up my own income to. And I remember thinking like, I can't even breathe right now. And you're worried about your bonus not pay. Cause I can understand it because, like, oh my God, I gotta take care of my family. And I don't wanna be insensitive, but like, you know, these are the bills I used to pay to make sure my kid can eat or whatever. I could almost understand that. But bonus, it was such an aha moment. I said, you're killing yourself for people who will walk over your dead body, Tiffany. And so I said, okay. And so I cut the team in half without regret. If there is anything about. And actually thinking about writing a book called Gifts of Grief. Not a financial book, but just a grief book because I just learned so much. Is that one of the gifts was that perspective of what is enough. Also what care looks like. And that it is not for me to do all the giving and get none of the receiving right. I don't have to be a martyr to everyone because I thought a good person, then it's like, output, output, output, give, give, give, give, give. That makes for a good person. And that loss taught me that, like, no, I, too, am deserving of input from people, I will say, like family and friends and things like that. Like, the people who were really there, I got to see. Because that's exactly what they did. They poured back into me so beautifully. And I said, oh, this is what you haven't been allowing. And then I got to see the people who were just sucking me dry and pulling me out when I got to cut them off, you know, without regret. It was such a pivotal moment. And so grief. I'm grateful for grief. Not the loss, but the grief, because it brought so much clarity. I am a better sister, a better stepmother, a better daughter, a better friend, a better business owner, a better leader. How I show up for my team is much better because I now have expectations, too. Dr. Green, my therapist, would remind me when I said, well, you know, I just want to do something good for the community, she's like, but you're part of the community, too. I am now reminding myself to integrate myself into the community. So when I'm passing out blessings, you stand in line, too, Tiffany. Like, you get to eat the meal, too. No one's saying, don't share the meal, but so you don't get a plate. That's crazy. And so that's one of the things I'm relearning for myself.

[A]

Yeah. It's a hard one to learn because they're so. You see all of the cliches and the platitudes around, like, it's all about service. It's all about service. It's all about service. But it gets to the point where you are exploiting yourself.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I just. I keep going back to the phrase softy or doormat, because that's. I mean, in hindsight, that's what I was. And similar to you, like, it was. I'm thinking about this one person in particular. It was when I cut her off that she became very aggressive.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

It felt like such a betrayal.

[B]

It was.

[A]

I was like, after everything I've done for you. Yeah. After all the sacrifices that I've made, after all of the unearned money that you collected off of the work that I did. After everything. When I finally said, all right, no more, instead of just walking away, you, like, came after me like that. It was. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Like, you know what you learn from that is that the betrayal was you to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you said betrayal. I'm not even talking about her. It's you to you.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So one thing I learned in therapy about people pleasing is actually not about People, really, it's you, me that I'm trying to, like, create a safe space for internally.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That if I make sure they're okay, I could be okay. People pleasing is actually not about pleasing those people. It's about calming whatever anxieties is in you. And you've told yourself that in order for me to be okay, other people have to be okay. And that's not true. That's not true. Because the problem is you'll find people who will exploit that, Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You'll attract the people who will exploit that.

[B]

I'm a super giver. I mean, I was really fortunate because my husband was a super giver. Yeah. And so I've gotten really good at surrounding myself with people who are not takers. I mean, it took a long time. I think I got rid of my last taker when I was 40, but so it's taken a long time to clear those people out. Even in business, you know, where I'm like, okay, so I'm not quite where I want to be, but as far as, like, my mental relationship with money, But I'm way closer than I used to be.

[A]

Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. I need the right person with the right background who can move our business forward. If I wanted candidates who match what I'm looking for, I'd trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs. In fact, I did. I used Indeed Sponsored Jobs to make two hires. One was for an executive assistant, and the other was for a customer support and operations assistant. For both positions, we had the job posting up for less than 48 hours. And within that time, we got so many applications, we got what we needed. So if you're hiring, Indeed is all you need. Give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Sponsored Jobs boosts your post for quality candidates, and that makes a big difference. Sponsored Jobs posted on indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than non Sponsored Jobs Sponsor Jobs. And more than 1.6 million companies sponsor their jobs with Indeed. So our two hires have both been working for us for several months now. They're great, wonderful, part of the team, and we found them through Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com Paula. Just go to Indeed.com Paula right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast indeed.com Paula terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.

[B]

You didn't start a business just to keep the lights on. You're here to sell more today than yesterday. You're here to win. Lucky for you. Shop. Shopify built the best converting checkout on the planet. Like the just one tapping ridiculously fast acting sky high sales stacking champion at checkouts. That's the good stuff right there. So if your business is in it to win it, win with Shopify. Start your free trial [e-mail] win Hallmark Cards presents Mother's Day at Walgreens. Celebrate every mother figure in your life with a Hallmark card at Walgreens. Show how much she means to you and how deeply she's loved. A Hallmark card is the perfect way to say thank you for all she does. Don't forget Mother's day is Sunday, May 10th. Visit Walgreens today to find the perfect Hallmark Mother's Day card and make her feel truly special. Mother's Day means Hallmark cards at Walgreens.

[A]

Do you think that people pleasing is part of that post traumatic broke syndrome?

[B]

Absolutely. Also too, I was doing a live once and I had such a, like, oh, that divine download moment when I was like, that's what it is. Because I was like, why don't I let myself get things for myself? Why do I get things for other people? Why am I so afraid to like grow my money, invest like what? And I, I was telling the story about Jake the thief. I'd gone alive and I realized I was angry at that Tiffany still. Oh, that's why you're punishing yourself. No soup for you. Oh, upstate New York house. Absolutely not. Look what you did when you were 25. We can't trust you or you want this other thing? Absolutely. Because when it, Paula, when it comes to people I care about, it's whatever you need. I'll buy this for you. I'll get this. I'll get. So I'm like, you're not cheap. And at first I thought maybe you thought I was thinking, do I feel broke? Obviously not. Because you bought this property and this property. You were angry at 25, 26 year old Tiffany because of the mistakes she made and you don't trust her and so you're punishing yourself now for those mistakes versus like forgiving her. She didn't know. So sometimes literally, I almost talk to her and say, I forgive you. You made a choice. You didn't know someone took advantage of you. How could you have known at 25 that this person would do. You were friends with them for five, six years. So I literally have to actively work toward forgiving her so I can release that shame so I can enjoy life now. And I think that that's really the post traumatic broke syndrome is the lack of forgiveness of that version of myself. And so I take that shame and I continue to punish myself now by not allowing myself to enjoy what I've actually done, not what I did.

[A]

Right. Yeah, I resonate with that too. You know, you can get in that shame spiral about earlier mistakes, including mistakes of over generosity, as we've just been talking about mistakes of being too much of a people pleaser.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, when most people think of like, quote unquote, financial mistakes, most people think of overspending, because that's sort of the cliche, you know, that's the acceptable kind of. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Like, you tell somebody you over give, they're like, that's not bad. You didn't over. That's not. That's never bad. We're supposed to be givers, givers, cares, carers, giver, giver. More, more, more for you.

[A]

Yeah. Then you get into that place of over giving and realize that you are allowing yourself to get taken advantage of. So it's like, you have to get out of that. And then there's like the shame of, wow, look at how I mismanaged my money by over giving. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It's a lot, but it's like, oh, man. Tiffany says. I'm like. I'm like, I'm sorry. Just forgive yourself, sis. It's okay. Sometimes, literally, I have to talk to myself and I'm like, I know, I get it. Ideally, not so great, but did you kill somebody? Like, what are we talking about here? Like, I need you to forgive yourself. You did it from a good place, Dr. Green would say. So you're mad at yourself for being human. That's what comes up for me, you know, like, you're mad at yourself for being human. I'm sorry, are you expecting perfection every step of the way? How's that even possible? You made a human choice from a human place. We're here now. And yet still here. You are successful podcast, still caring, still giving. Okay, that happened. But you get to say that, Paula, you know, ideally, I wish this would have happened, but the truth of the matter is, I got to take a valuable lesson moving forward. This is me talking to you and me. Okay. Yeah. I got to take a value. Like, the truth is, I'm like, Tiffany, you could not be the budget niece you are now without those mistakes. I teach from a place of empathy. Literally when someone says, I'm like, I know, like, no, no. I'm like, no, no, no. I know what it's like to be like, so now that I'm not in my parents house anymore and my sister's place, where am I going to live? You know, I have just about $500. I guess I'll rent a room. I know what it is to have debt collectors calling. And I'm like, I don't have it. I know to have debt collectors try to shame you by calling your family, asking for the money and being like, oh my God, what do I do? That's why I learned how to do cease and desist letters, to make them stop. I know what it is to literally not get positions because I didn't have the proper clothes. I remember I was interviewing and I was like, why are people not even trying to do speaking engagements? And a friend of mine, and a real friend at the time, I was so embarrassed. He said, so a friend of mine interviewed you today and they thought you were great, but they just said she was kind of dressed inappropriately and it wasn't like salaciously, but it's like my clothes were not in great shape. I didn't have any money and I felt so ashamed. Like, what? And I just was like, so then borrowing like clothes from friends and family just so I could look appropriate to try to like go for interviews and things, you know what I mean? So I'm grateful for that time. I'm like, you're mad at the Tiffany that gave you the tools you needed to be the Tiffany you are now. You don't get big Tiffany without little Tiffany. You know what I mean? So I try to remind myself that like you can't be mad at her. She put you in this position.

[A]

Yeah. About a year ago, I created a course around negotiation and it was positioned as like how to ask for a raise. We called it your next raise. And anecdotally, at least working with the students inside of it. The thing that I've seen over and over is that a lot of the people who've been drawn to it are people who struggle with being people pleasers. Not standing up for themselves, with not asking for what they deserve, with not asking for more. Overtly, the positioning was, hey, here's how to. Here's how to ask for a raise. But like, really, I think that what it's serving is here's how to just speak up for your needs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and I think post traumatic broke syndrome really plays into not being assertive about. About what you want, about your own needs, and. And the mindset behind that is believing that other people's needs are more important than your own.

[B]

I think that for many people, they think that they can indirectly get their needs met if they meet other people's, especially safety. Safety is one of my number one needs. And so in order for me to feel safe, I've told myself, you have to be okay, not, I have to be okay.

[A]

Oh, like you, the other person.

[B]

Yeah, you, the other person. Like, I told myself, like, as long as this other person is okay, I can lose time, relax. I can take the scraps. I don't mind. In order for me to be fed, you have to eat. The other person has to eat. Because in them eating, it's almost like they won't eat me then. You know what I mean? That's the part, right? Like, if you're okay, you won't. Something won't happen to me. And so it taught me that everyone else's okayness is more important than mine. Like, hey, even though I've been running this upstate New York house, and my sisters are not abusive, so it's just. I'm just projecting. Let me get a house for Alyssa and my sisters and my. Because in order for me to be okay, almost like, if I can do all of that, then I can buy the house myself. You see what I mean?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You put yourself last after every other member of your family has a home first.

[B]

Yes. And although no one has asked for that. I've got a great family. They don't. Yeah, no. Everyone's working, they're gainfully employed. I have associated safety with. Everyone has to be okay for me to be okay versus just focusing on me being okay. It'd be one thing if I really had a sister that was homeless. And it's like, that makes sense, Tiffany. But literally none of those things are happening. One of my triggers is that feeling of safety. I need to be safe. In order to be safe, you gotta be okay. So then I can relax. These are things you work on, honestly. And so, like I said, one of the reasons why I came up with financial wholeness was to help with that feeling of financial unsafety. I am totally financially on. I've mastered budgeting and savings and debt and credit and income and investing and insurance and net worth and financial team and estate planning. Those things are in place. So it gives me a feeling of solace. Like, okay, Tiffany, you have These things in place. Realistically, you're okay. Financially, I still struggle with it, but it allows me to have, you know, almost like I wrote Gekko with Money, my book for myself. To be like, I know what you're feeling, but what's actual is this. Let's reel it on back. You're okay, you're okay.

[A]

We've talked about how post traumatic broke syndrome shows up in the form of people pleasing and over giving to the point of self exploitation. Are there other ways that you see it show up? Like excessive frugality, for example, in, in ways that are harmful? I mean, that's just one example that comes from it. But what are other ways that you see it come up?

[B]

Absolutely accessible reality, for sure. But also too, these poor Z's, they're like yolo, right? They're like, why should I even work hard? Why should I save? There was a joke someone posted, but I know it was like haha. But not really. They said, before I pay my rent, I ran what y' all doing? Because they're basically like, are we even gonna be here? Why should I navigate my financial, my finances responsibly when I don't even know if we're physically going to be here? There's this threat of, of death and destruction. And so I, especially younger people, I'm seeing a lot of financial irresponsibility. Not because they're irresponsible, but they can't see a future. So I might as well enjoy now. That could be really harmful. Because if we do have a future, what are you going to do? That's what I see too. Is that for them, it's not even post traumatic, it's just traumatic. Broke sits. Because they're like, they're not posted yet. They're in it and they're making choices based upon what's happening, not what life will be like in the future. Because they're like, what is the future gonna be? I think this last generation is like, maybe it was millennials or maybe it is disease that won't do better than their parents or don't. Like, I think millennials are not doing better than baby boomers. Baby boomers, you know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because there's always been this trajectory upward.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So when it doesn't exist, what am I working for? I'm working to overwork, so I cannot buy a house, so I can not retire these things that used to be promised to us. If you behave yourself, you could get a cookie. And now there's no cookie. So why should I behave myself? Yolo. So I'm seeing that a lot, that a lot of young people are just kind of like, man, whatever, you know, financially, I might as well just buy all the things.

[A]

Right. It's the sense of like the proverbial latte.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, now it's like avocado toast or whatever. There's the sense of a house is out of reach, so. So why not get the avocado toast? The ratio of the average income to the average home price, you know, for the baby boomers, that ratio was a lot closer. And now that ratio, the ratio of income to home price is a lot further away.

[B]

Exactly. Because maybe it was like, oh, what are you talking about? I bought a house when I was her age. I think literally my, my dad's first house, I want to say, was like $60,000 or something like that. I mean, at the time, let's say he was making 60 or 70. You know what I mean? It's like, yes, it's some work to save for that. It's reasonable work. Now if the average house in like New Jersey, where I live, you're looking at 400, 500,000. Are you a surgeon? It's not one year. Oh, God. Bid you live in California for a shack. I can give you a shack for a million dollars. That's ridiculous. What is the point then? Why even go that hard? I can understand. And it's hard to make the argument when, I mean, I don't know what the future is going to hold, but I do know that I don't want it to catch me slipping. That's why I'm like, no, go ahead and get good with Money. Do your 10 steps to financial wholeness. I get it. But if things shift because the tide always shifts, things shift and then all of a sudden you have nothing because you've saved nothing, you're in debt. You literally become a self fulfilling prophecy that, like, I'll never be financially solvent because of the choices you're making now and you're not learning the skill sets to navigate more financially responsibly. I get it. That you might not see the fruit, like right now, but still plant those seeds.

[A]

Yeah. So then what do you say to people who are feeling hopeless, like the people who are like, all right, my income is $70,000 and a home in my area is $400,000, and on a $70,000 income, I don't know how, how I'll buy a $400,000 home. What would you say to that person?

[B]

I would say you probably are not and that's okay. Homeownership is not the only way. Is it true that you might not be able to buy a home? Is it the only truth available? Will you be homeless? Or is it true that you might not be able to buy a single family home? But is it the only truth available that you and your bestie and your bestie's husband or your sisters or your cousins can get together to get a multifamily house? So, just thinking differently, I told myself, if I don't ever get married again, if I don't move in one of my sisters, I'm going to do what I did in my 30s, because essentially, that was the Golden Girls house. Because all my friends were teachers living in this house. We had so much fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was crazy because I'm like, I'm 32. I should feel ashamed. I wasn't really, because I'd wake up, oh, hey, Deessa, she was a gym teacher. And my friend Joy was a dance teacher. And like my friend Nina, she was the only one who wasn't a teacher, but she was a graphic designer. We had dinner together, we hung out. We were totally different personalities and. But it was such a fun time. You think I won't grow Golden Girl it up in my 60s and 70s if I'm by myself? There are alternatives to this. It's not the singular goal of homeownership. Maybe homeownership looks collective because there's other truths available is what I would say to that person.

[A]

Right. I mean, my first property was a house hack. I would not have been able to do it in the traditional way, but get a house hack, live in one unit, rent out the other. So I live in one unit with roommates and then rent out the others. You know, that's how I got started. I think you're just now seeing more people come around to that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

My story was unusual because I did that 10 years ago. Like, before, it was cool, but so smart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think now that's starting to become more common.

[B]

It's like, explore the other truths available.

[A]

Yeah. ADUs now are also really, you know, depending on where you live.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are some other truths that you think people are not exploring yet that people should open their minds to?

[B]

Oh, so other truths available is that if you can. I mean, the market is still a place to make money. Even with all the shenanigans, all the division, the powers that be, like the very super, very, very, very wealthy, a large part of their income outside of business is in the market. They're not going to let that thing fail because that means they fail. Is it true that things are a bit harder, but it's also true that there's a vehicle that some of the wealthiest among us, they live off that vehicle. They're not letting it go down. So I'm getting in the boat with you. You know, I might not be able to drive the Bugatti, but I'm sitting in the backseat. Where we going?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's another truth available. Other truth available is that to rethink what exactly am I going for? Meaning do I need a million dollars to live the life that I want? A practice that my therapist, Dr. Green, has me do is write out the perfect day. So every few years she's like, let's write out the perfect day. I'm like, okay, the perfect day for me is I don't have to wake up to an alarm, which usually I don't anyway. I'm just somebody who like wakes up like five or six naturally, but I don't actually have to get started until 10am I get to walk in the park. I live next to a beautiful park. So if I wake up, say like six o' clock naturally. And you know, maybe I walk from like 7:30 to like 8:30, 9:30, and I get started with like, maybe like a some sort of like internal team meeting so I don't have to look cute. And maybe or maybe not, I have a speaking engagement, maybe because I do enjoy them, but not all the time that I have time for reading. I get a yummy lunch because a lot of my friends live in my neighborhood. That was intentional where I'm like, oh, you know, like the other day I called my friend Rihanna, who's also my designer of like the houses that I've had, and said, girl, what are you doing? I have an hour. Let's go get a slice of pizza. She lives a five minute drive. Picked her up, got a slice of pizza. We Kiki'd dropped her back off with 15 minutes to spare for my next podcast interview.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

You know, and so it looks like that it looked for me. My perfect day includes a lot of interpersonal connections. So maybe I called my mom or my dad. I got to see someone like, you know, like a friend, a family member, whoever. I got to walk, I like to be outside. I got to take a nap. I love me a two o' clock nap. And I'm done by three, four o'. Clock. The latest. I think one of the other truths available is how much do I have to make to do that? I'm making that already. I have that already. That's another truth. Which is, wait, have I even identified what I actually want? Because maybe I have enough money for that. That's another truth. Like, the truth is I have enough money for that. I don't mind. I have enough money to be like, oh, If I had $50 million in my bank account. But for what I just described as my perfect day, it doesn't require $50 million in my bank account. And so that's a truth available that I'm, I'm constantly reminding myself, like, what's the perfect day? Is there anything financially stopping you from having this?

[A]

Right.

[B]

No. No, not really. Okay, so you don't need to go hard. You don't need. Because sometimes people will say, tiffany, can you do this thing? We'll pay you this amount of money. And I'm like, oh God. You know, you can say no, right? Because you have enough. Did you make enough money to cover payroll this month and operating expenses? Yes, you can say no. You've made enough for the thing that you want. So that's another truth to really get clear on the thing that I want and then match it to the money. Don't match the what your money to like not. You choose the money and then figure out things because then you're always just add more things.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Amazing. Well, thank you for spending this time with us. Where can people find you if they'd like to learn more?

[B]

My book Get Go with Money has just came out, the soft cover version. And so if you're looking for like just a hand holding plan about how to get the financial part of you ready to fulfill the emotional, mental, spiritual part of you, you know, like to match the money to the thing. I can't help you figure out what that thing is for you, but I can certainly help you with the financial plan. I can help you get financially whole. You can get the book, get good with money at any place books are sold. So they'll be in bookstores, but [e-mail] and on the budget, Nista. On all the platforms, Instagram, LinkedIn, TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, or whatever they call now X, you know, threads and so. Yeah. And so you can continue to connect with me. I love connection. That's one of the things I really love about this business.

[A]

Same, same. Well, thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Thank you, Tiffany. Thank you. Tiffany, what are three key takeaways that we got from this conversation? Key takeaway number One, financial problems are emotional, not mathematical. A lot of people think that financial problems are purely math. Tiffany talks about how the real obstacle is emotional. Most of us have the financial knowledge that we need in order to fix our situation. Even Tiffany. Her dad was a cfo. She knew how to budget, she knew how to get out of debt. But she was feeling all of this shame. And that put a wall up in front of her and, and the moment that she voiced that shame out loud to her best friend, that wall came down. She got out of her head and she got into a mode of action.

[B]

Shame shields, solutions. So I couldn't see those solutions with the shame. But giving voice to shame helps to relieve you of that shame. So me telling Linda, my best friend, helped me to see, like, wait, I do know how to budget. And say, you know what, I might not have a job right now, but I could babysit. I could tutorial.

[A]

That is the first key takeaway. Key takeaway number two. Even after you get rich, the broke mindset does not go away. Tiffany has grossed between 50 to 60 million dollars over her career. And yet she spent years refusing to buy a vacation home in upstate New York, even though she'd been dreaming about it. Even though she also bought two other condos that she didn't need. One for her sisters, one for her stepdaughter, who's now a sophomore in college. The broke version of Tiffany, from her 20s, was still mentally running the show even though her business was grossing mid double digit millions. And so at some point she realized that what was really happening is not that she was being cautious, but rather that she was punishing herself. She was punishing herself for mistakes that she made at the age of 25.

[B]

And I realized I was angry at that. Tiffany still. Oh, that's why you're punishing yourself. No soup for you. Oh, I'm saying New York house. Absolutely not. Look what you did when you were 25, we can't trust you. You were angry at 25, 26 year old Tiffany because of the mistakes she made and you don't trust her. And so you are punishing yourself now for those mistakes versus, like forgiving her,

[A]

breaking through those mental barriers, right? That doesn't happen just because you have money. That happens only with a lot of work. That's the second key takeaway. Finally, key takeaway number three. Figure out your perfect day. Figure out how much that perfect day costs because you might already have enough money to fund it. We often tend to think of building wealth as a destination of more, make more Accumulate more, and then eventually you get around to living the type of life that you actually want. And Tiffany flips this. She says, first, design your perfect day and get really specific about what that day costs. And then ask yourself whether or not your money already covers it. So when she did this exercise with her own financial therapist, she talked about waking up to no alarm, taking a walk in the park, having lunch with a friend who lives nearby, taking a nap at 2 o', clock, being done with work by 4 o'. Clock. None of those are expensive things. And so the answer that she discovered was that she already had enough. And many of us, if we went through a similar exercise, might discover that as well.

[B]

One of the other truths available is, how much do I have to make to do that? I'm making that already. I have that already. That's another truth, which is, wait, have I even identified what I actually want? Because maybe I have enough money for that. I don't mind. I have enough money to be like, oh, If I had $50 million in my bank account. But for what I just described as my perfect day, it doesn't require $50 million in my bank account.

[A]

Those are three key takeaways from this conversation with Tiffany Alice the Budget Nista thank you so much for listening to this episode. We I have an announcement, big announcement. We have a course on rental property investing and it is opening for enrollment Monday, May 11th. So if you go to afford anything.com enroll Monday, May 11th, we open our doors for enrollment. Doors will be open for the next 10 days. We close our doors on 11 days. Actually, we close our doors on Thursday the 21st. This is your window. If you want to join our cohort. If you want to learn with a group of committed people who are devoted, not just peers, but also TAs myself. We have a big devoted group of people who provide structure, provide accountability, provide guidance so that you can become the real estate investor that you want to be. Those doors open Monday, May 11th. That's Monday, May 11th. To learn more, go to affordanything.com enroll. That's affordanything.com enroll. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends, family, neighbors, colleagues. Share this with the people in your life who would benefit from hearing this message. Open up your favorite podcast playing app. Please leave us up to a five star review. While you're there, write a few words, tell us what you enjoy about the show, and remember, affordanything.com enroll to work directly with me. To work with our team of great TAs, very experienced TAs who've been with us for years, many of whom have been with us for years. We have a very robust course that leads you through how to analyze properties, how to find properties, including out of state, how to get the financing that you need, how to renovate properties, how to screen for tenants. We provide guidance. We provide structure. We provide a roadmap. We set you up for success as a real estate investor. Those doors open Monday, May 11. Affordanything.com enroll. I'll see you in class. Thank you so much for being part of this community. My name is Paula Pant. This is the Afford Anything podcast and I'll meet you in the next episode.