Focus on Africa: Who is Uganda's Joseph Kony?

Summary

Focus on Africa: Who is Uganda's Joseph Kony?

Africa Daily / BBC World Service

Date: September 12, 2025
Host: Audrey Brown

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on Joseph Kony, the notorious Ugandan rebel leader of the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), recently the subject of renewed attention at the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague. The episode provides context on Kony’s background and crimes, explores efforts to bring him to justice, and highlights broader issues facing the continent: combating childhood obesity in South Africa and the evolving role of women in Malawian politics ahead of upcoming elections.

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I. Who Is Joseph Kony? (01:23–08:28)

A. Background and Charges Against Kony

• Kony’s Origins:

  • Born in early 1960s, Odek village, Northern Uganda; started as a Catholic altar boy.
  • Later adapted a blend of Catholicism and local traditions as spiritual justification for violence.

• LRA Atrocities:

  • Founded and led the Lord’s Resistance Army—initially popular for defending the Acholi people, but support evaporated as the LRA committed widespread violence against civilians, including their own communities.
  • "An estimated, according to the prosecution, 60,000 children were abducted by the LRA. Many of them subjected to sexual violence. More than 100,000 people were killed during this period."
    — Anna Holligan, BBC Hague Correspondent [03:36]

• Crimes detailed by the ICC:

  • Facing 39 counts—murder, sexual enslavement, rape, torture, use of child soldiers, and societal destruction.

B. ICC Proceedings Without Kony (04:12–06:05)

• Kony remains at large; his location unknown for two decades—possibly in the Central African Republic or killed.

• ICC held a hearing to determine if enough evidence exists to send the case to trial, played to Ugandans on large screens in community space to demonstrate justice-in-action.

• "It's unprecedented. That's the answer. We don't know where he is. We don't even know if he's alive or not."
  — Anna Holligan [04:22]

• Defense represented by appointed counsel (Peter Haynes), who argued against proceeding in absentia.

• Victims participated through legal representation, highlighting community trauma and ongoing societal impact.

  • "The prosecution had talked about...Kony had been responsible for ripping apart the fabric of society and people still struggling to put it back together again, even after all of these years."
    — Anna Holligan [05:27]

• ICC must decide within 60 days whether to send the case to trial, dismiss, or ask for more evidence—proceedings cannot truly move forward unless Kony is apprehended.

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II. Survivors' Testimonies and Personal Memories (08:06–09:40)

• Benson Ongom (journalist, grew up in Gulu):
  Remembers peak violence in the 1990s—villages burned, people maimed, economic activity brought to a halt.

• Pauline Akello (former abductee, age 12):

  • Vividly describes years in captivity: forced labor, sexual slavery, constant fear.
  • Shares Kony’s claims of being guided by a "holy spirit" commanding total destruction.
  • "He used to tell us that he has spirit, you know, a holy spirit that guides him in everything that he do. Sometimes he gives Hoda like kill everything you see, whether being animals, human beings kill anything you can see."
    — Pauline Akello [08:47]

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III. A Rare Attempt at Peace: Speaking With Kony (09:40–18:30)

A. Uganda's Strategy: Reaching Out Via Kony’s Mother

• Judith Obina Okumu (circumstances and feelings):
  • Tasked (by President Museveni) with establishing contact with Kony through his mother, Nora Annec.
  • Reticence and anxiety at undertaking the perilous task:
    • "Wow, that was a bullet. I can imagine that was a bullet in my head. I was just completely scared. I was in shock."
      — Judith Okumu [10:58]
  • Gained Kony’s mother's trust through sustained support, leading to the idea that a maternal visit could broker peace.

B. The Meeting in the Forest

• Personal impressions and tension:

  • Okumu describes deep fear on meeting Kony in Garamba forest, relying on his mother's presence for protection.
    • "As soon as Kony was trying to come towards us, the only best thing I could do...was to make sure I go behind the mum."
      — Judith Okumu [14:31]
  • Kony’s emotional reaction:
    • "He looked at us and he only said one thing. He said, mom, you have come...I could see that he had tears in his eyes. So I was in my mind, I thought, okay, he's human after all."
      — Judith Okumu [15:19]

• Outcomes:

  • Kony agreed not to launch further attacks in Uganda from 2007 onwards, shifting LRA operations outside Uganda.
  • Okumu reflects on why Kony didn’t surrender:
    • "For a man who has been a rebel for so many years, and he knows definitely the law is waiting for him...It's not just easy to pack your bags one morning and you just walk into Uganda."
      — Judith Okumu [18:47]

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IV. The LRA’s Legacy and Uganda’s Recovery (18:30–19:27)

• The LRA lost influence; many commanders dead or in prison for war crimes.
• Uganda has seen relative peace in the north, but Kony remains at large and LRA splinters continue to destabilize other regions (Congo, Sudan, Central African Republic).

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V. Africa Today: Health & Politics

1. Tackling Childhood Obesity in South Africa (19:27–28:39)

A. UNICEF Report and School Innovations

• Overweight/obesity among children is a growing "crisis," driven by cheaper processed foods and economic changes.
• Cairo School of Inquiry (Johannesburg):

  • Implements a vegetarian food policy; initial student resistance, now embraced for its health and educational value.

  • "When the kids start at the school and they discover that they can only bring in vegetarian food...it's an opportunity for learning."
    — Mayeni Jones [20:52]

  • Parents encouraged to send whole foods; processed foods, sweets, and fizzy drinks are discouraged.

B. Systemic Challenges and Policy Responses

• The majority of schools can't afford such policies; most rely on processed food for affordability and quantity.

• Gilbert Chitauudzi (UNICEF):

  • Argues that healthy eating is limited by lack of access and poverty, not just individual choice:
    • "How do you expect an individual to live a healthier lifestyle and also to eat healthy if the environment does not enable them to do that?"
      — Gilbert Chitauudzi [25:31]

• Government measures:

  • Sugar-sweetened beverage tax (2018), regulations on salt, sugar, and fat, public health campaigns.
  • Regulation targets early life (baby formula), clearer packaging for nutritional info.

• Wider African Trends:

  • Rapid spread of obesity in growing economies—prevalent in Mauritania, Eswatini, Ghana, Gabon, Cameroon, Botswana.

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2. Women in Politics: Malawi’s Electoral Gender Gap (29:53–37:17)

A. Underrepresentation and Barriers

• Women are the majority of voters (57%) but underrepresented as candidates and MPs.
  • Cost of nomination is high, though now halved for female councillor and MP candidates after advocacy.
• "If there was no requirement to pay nomination fees, I'd contest as a counselor." — Unnamed Malawian woman [32:08]

B. Efforts by Civil Society

• The Women’s Manifesto Movement (led by Maggie Katuera Banda) offers financial and training support to aspiring female politicians.
  • "Those women have, are being trained on what it is to be a leader..."
    — Nomsa Maseko [33:16]

C. Progress and Hurdles

• Slight rise in female MPs; skepticism persists about whether women running mates are chosen for optics or meaningful inclusion.

  • "Malawians think that the women running mates...is just for convenience." — Nomsa Maseko [34:21]

• Helen Chabunya (party vice president):

  • Articulates hope for a future with greater female representation:
    • "Our generation...is going to ensure that this never happens again. We're working towards breaking down those barriers."
      — Helen Chabunya [34:59]

• Election atmosphere is muted; economic hardship and fuel shortages dampen typical campaigning and voter enthusiasm.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “He used to tell us that he has a holy spirit that guides him in everything that he do...I do not want to see anything living.”
  — Pauline Akello (Survivor), [08:47]

• “It's unprecedented. ... We don't even know if he's alive or not.”
  — Anna Holligan (On Kony’s absence at ICC), [04:22]

• "Wow, that was a bullet. ... I was just completely scared. I was in shock."
  — Judith Okumu (On being tasked to contact Kony), [10:58]

• "If all schools were to emulate our intention of being thoughtful and conscious of health...the conversations that would emerge from the food policy would enormously benefit the children's health."
  — Mark Loon (Head Teacher, Cairo School), [22:51]

• “How do you expect an individual to live a healthier lifestyle...if the environment does not enable them to do that?”
  — Gilbert Chitauudzi (UNICEF SA), [25:31]

• “Our generation...is going to ensure that this never happens again. We're working towards breaking down those barriers.”
  — Helen Chabunya (Malawian politician), [34:59]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:23 – Introduction to Joseph Kony case at the ICC
• 03:36 – Scale and brutality of LRA atrocities
• 08:47 – Survivor, Pauline Akello’s story
• 09:40–18:30 – Judith Okumu on peace attempt with Kony via his mother
• 19:27 – LRA’s decline and Uganda’s recovery
• 19:27–28:39 – Childhood obesity in South Africa: problem and policy
• 29:53–37:17 – Women in Malawian politics: barriers and activism

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Summary Conclusion

This episode uses the lens of Joseph Kony’s legacy to explore the complexity of post-conflict justice, the intergenerational trauma borne by survivors, and the need for structural solutions—whether addressing the aftermath of violence, public health crises, or gender inequality in politics. Through eyewitness accounts, institutional analysis, and frontline reporting, Focus on Africa offers a rich, ground-level view of Africa’s most urgent challenges and the ongoing quest for peace, well-being, and equitable representation.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

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[Narrator/Host]

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[Anna Holligan]

All so that he can help students.

[Mayeni Jones]

Staff and teachers stay healthy and focused.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click Grainger or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Hello, I'm Audrey Brown and today in Focus on Africa, we'll be hearing more about Joseph Kony, the Ugandan rebel leader being investigated for war crimes by the International Criminal Court.

[Narrator/Host]

He used to tell us that he has a holy spirit that guides him in everything that he do. Sometimes he gives Hoda like kill everything you see, whether being animals, human beings, I do not want to see anything living when it gives that Hoda people do a lot of killing.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

We'll also be hearing the intriguing story behind an attempt to make peace with Konyi through a visit from his mother. How some South African schools are fighting childhood obesity and the role of women in politics in Malawi ahead of elections next week.

[Narrator/Host]

As a woman, it's important to support fellow women who are contesting.

[Nomsa Maseko]

In my case, if there was no.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Requirement to pay nomination fees, I'd contest as a Counselor. It's Friday 12th September 1st. We go to the Hague. Madam President, Your Honours. Between October 2003 and June 2004, the LRA fighters carried out a calculated and brutal series of attacks on seven IDP camps across northern Uganda. The voice of one of the prosecution lawyers at the International Criminal Court presenting the case for war crimes against the Ugandan fugitive rebel leader Joseph Kony. The two day hearing which took place earlier this week was not a trial. It was a further step towards a trial. A hearing to establish if there is sufficient evidence to justify sending the matter to court. The whereabouts of Joseph Konyi, the man who is being investigated is not known. He may be somewhere in the dense forests of the Central African Republic or he may be dead. Anna Holligan is the BBC correspondent at the Hague. And she was in court. We began with a reminder of who Jose Okony was and the accusations he faces. And I must warn you, there are some descriptions of violence that are quite distressing. So listen with care.

[Anna Holligan]

He was the leader, founder of the Lord's Resistance army in northern uganda. He's facing 39 counts under the ICC charges covering everything from murder to sexual enslavement, rape, torture. He's accused of forcibly recruiting children to fighters soldiers in his rebel ranks. And the numbers that we're talking about here, they are absolutely startling. So an estimated, according to the prosecution, 60,000 children were abducted by the LRA. Many of them subjected to sexual violence. More than 100,000 people were killed during this period.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

But how unusual is it for the accused not to appear at proceedings? I mean, Joseph Konyi has been gone for the last 20 years. We barely know where he is now.

[Anna Holligan]

It's unprecedented. That's the answer. We don't know where he is. We don't even know if he's alive or not. So you know, the ICC set up these giant screens in parts of Uganda, in high schools, to ensure that some of the survivors could see justice in action. But hearing them speaking to some of the news agencies, it was a real divided opinion. Like what does this actually mean to us if the person who is suspected of being responsible for these mass atrocities isn't actually there in court?

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So how was Joseph Konya represented? Was there anybody that made his case?

[Anna Holligan]

The ICC had to appoint a defence counsel to represent his interests in court. So he was represented by a well known lawyer here in the Hague called Peter Haynes. And he said, well, actually this shouldn't be happening. Not least because there's an empty chair here in the courtroom. So he argued that the proceedings shouldn't be able to go ahead in absentia.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Were there any victims of the law's Resistance army and their atrocities in court?

[Anna Holligan]

No, is the answer. They were represented by a lawyer, a team of lawyers, the victim's representatives. They talked about the scale of these atrocities, the impact of the crimes. And many people will be familiar with the LRA's alleged atrocities, slicing off parts of their victims faces and mutilation. Along with all of those other charges that the ICC has accused Joseph Kony of. The prosecution had talked about the fact that Joseph Kony had been responsible for ripping apart the fabric of society and People still struggling to put it back together again, even after all of these years.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Now the pre trial hearings have concluded and the judges have now begun deliberations on the evidence board before them. So what happens next?

[Anna Holligan]

Well, the judges have 60 days to hold these deliberations. And after that point they have three options really. So the first is to agree that there is enough evidence, send the case to trial. At that point, the whole process would actually just be put on pause because a trial can't go ahead without the suspect under ICC rules. So then it would just be a kind of a case of sit and wait until international forces manage to do what they haven't been able to do up until this point and detain him or even establish his whereabouts. The second option would be to reject the charges and dismiss the case. And the third would be to tell the prosecution to go away and find more evidence or make changes to the charges. So One of those three options will be delivered within the next 60 days.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

That's the BBC's Anna Holligan at the International Criminal Court in the Netherlands. Now, Joseph Kony and the Lord's Resistance army terrorized northern Uganda for years before he fled to the Central African Republic. He was born in the early 1960s into a peasant family in Odek, a village in northern Uganda. He was a Catholic altar boy and later embraced a hybrid of Catholicism and traditional religions, which he says motivated him to form the Lord's Resistance army, an offshoot of the Holy Spirit movement that had been rebelling against what they saw as the marginalization of the Acholi people by President Jowerri Museveni's government. At one time, Konyi's LRA was popular in the north, but that popularity vanished as the group turned on the Acholi with shocking brutality. Benson Ongom, who is now a journalist, grew up in Gulu, the largest city in the region. And he remembers the violence of the LRA.

[Mayeni Jones]

In 1991.

[Narrator/Host]

Two, three, four, at the peak of.

[Mayeni Jones]

The LRA war, 1997, 1998, coming to villages, burning people, cutting people's limbs, trying to close roads.

[Narrator/Host]

The economic activity of the old region.

[Mayeni Jones]

Came to sort of like a standstill.

[Narrator/Host]

And that is how very many people.

[Mayeni Jones]

Here know the LRA.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

An estimated 60,000 children were abducted by the LRA, many of them subjected to sexual violence. Pauline Akello was one of them, and she was just 12 years old. She escaped after several years in captivity. And in 2015, Pauline told us what had happened to her.

[Narrator/Host]

All the years I've been spending there I had no hope. We were forced to to cook, and we were taken as sex slave. And we were forced to move long distances and carry heavy things on our heads, on our back. He used to tell us that he has spirit, you know, a holy spirit that guides him in everything that he do. Sometimes he gives Hoda like kill everything you see, whether being animals, human beings kill anything you can see. I do not want to see anything living. And so when it gives that Hoda people do a lot of killing of human being, of animals, burning houses, doing all those destructive things.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Now, at the height of the conflict, the Ugandan government, unable to stop the lra, required the people of northern Uganda to leave their villages and enter government run for internally displaced persons. The government also tried to make peace with the lra. One of the most striking attempts was that of Judith obina Okumu in 2006. She was an assistant private secretary. In her early 20s, President Museveni asked her to befriend Joseph Kony's mother, Nora Annec, with a view to finding a way to reach Kony himself. Let's listen to the rest of this fascinating maneuver in a long and painful war, as told to me by Judith Okumu. What did she know of Joseph Konye at the time?

[Narrator/Host]

I knew about Joseph Kony when I was a kid, because during the time the insurgency started in 1988, I was in secondary school and everything was not so good. And everybody knew about Cohen and they knew about the insurgents in northern Uganda and everything.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So you knew about the brutality as well and the kidnapping of the children, Right?

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah, of course I knew all that.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So when the president said to you, I want you to organize this meeting with Joseph Konya, what did you think?

[Narrator/Host]

Wow, that was a bullet. I can imagine that was a bullet in my head. I was just completely scared. I was in shock.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Were you scared to refuse to take the mission, or were you scared to go on the mission?

[Narrator/Host]

I was scared both to take the mission.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Right.

[Narrator/Host]

I didn't want to hear about it because it wasn't something that I was prepared for. Of course.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

But you couldn't say no?

[Narrator/Host]

How could I say no? This is one, he's my parent, and number two, he's my employer.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Right. And he's also the president of the country.

[Narrator/Host]

And he's also the president of the Republic of Uganda. I don't have a chance of saying no.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So there you are in your 20s, and you're in charge of youth. So how did you go about thinking how you would do this? Because, I mean, Joseph Konya, it wasn't like it was easy to find him. I mean, the Ugandan army had been trying to find him. And there you had to do it.

[Narrator/Host]

First of all, is because I got connected to the mother. And that is how this assignment all started. Because when somebody took me to the mother's, the mother's function, she was far away from Kampala and she was at a T estate. And somebody said Koh's mother was there. And I was inquisitive to know, is it true or it's not true. At the time, I was assistant private secretary to the president in charge of youth. And so somebody took me to her. And when I found her, we. We had a chat. And definitely I got to know this was the biological mother of corn.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So you built a relationship with them?

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah, after having taken the care of the family for some years, they built confidence. But first it was an idea that I thought that we could actually use this to. To broker the peace as well. Because we had a discussion with the president one day and I was like, if your mom asked you to do something, would you refuse? And he said, no. Then I said, but now why don't we do this? I think this lady could be of use. Then the president, at the end of the day, suggested maybe that we should try and see whether we can be able to have her go see her son. And that's how the journey started.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

To what end, actually, did the president want you to go and see Joseph Konya? Was it to try and get him to come to a negotiating table or what?

[Narrator/Host]

Really, our part was actually to broker the peace outside the peace talks. It was to cause confidence building between government and then the Cohen family and Coin himself.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So there you were. You go into the northern Ugandan forest. At some point, you must have been thinking, I can't turn back now. There is no turning back, whatever happens. But what was the moment that you came face to face with Konya? What were your impressions of him when you first met?

[Narrator/Host]

Garambo Forest was completely. It was in between a rock and a hard place, to say the least. But when I just saw him first, I thought, actually, we are not going to live to see another day. Definitely because of, you know, the many things, the many stories that had been going around. And here, here Judith is now by herself and she's facing this notorious rebel. I thought that was probably maybe my last day to see the son. I thought I was going to die that day, by the way.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

And you didn't think that being with his mother would protect you?

[Narrator/Host]

That was the only protection that I had. Because as soon as Cody was trying to come towards us, the only best thing I could do as a security function at the point was to make sure I go behind the mum. Because I said, okay. If he was actually going to open fire at us, what should first happen is that Judith should die after the mother, meaning the mother would die before me.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So was he basically coming at you with guns drawn?

[Narrator/Host]

A few of his people, of course, had guns, but he didn't have a gun. But they walked towards us. It wasn't the walk of repulsion or of war or something, or like fighting us. It was the walk of welcome.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

What does he look like? And how is he responding to seeing his mother? Because he hadn't seen her in a long time.

[Narrator/Host]

He's a tall person, not very well body built. And he looked at us and he only said one thing. He said, mom, you have come. And what I noticed is that he turned away, stopped looking at us for a while. And I could see that he had tears in his eyes. So I was in my mind, I thought, okay, he's human after all. And afterwards, then he welcomed us in Acholi language and he said inacholi. He said, inacholi means that thank you for coming.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Did you have a specific message from the president that you had to deliver?

[Narrator/Host]

At that time, everything, all the efforts of government was about peace. We needed the peace to be back. Now, sometimes nobody has to tell you something to do, but instinctively you have to think about what your boss would really want from you in the position where you are. What does he want in the first place? He'd sent us to Broca to talk the peace, to build the confidence and do all that. But the intricacies that would happen at the camp, he could not determine my actions. I had to make personal decisions to make sure that you can get the best out of the worst scenario and maybe come up with something. So it was as fragile as that.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So you had no real plan. You had to feel your way around first.

[Narrator/Host]

We knew that we were taking this for confidence building between rebel group and government. That one, it didn't need to be written on the head.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

We know, of course, that it didn't end in peace. Joseph Cohen is still at large. His case is being heard at the icc. But that particular meeting, what was the upshot of it? What was the thing that happened that came out of it? You did have peace talks, right?

[Narrator/Host]

Yes, we did have peace talks. And within this interaction with Joseph Cohen. We came to a final conclusion where Cohen declared that he was not going to shoot a gun again into uganda, right from 2007, which happened. Wherever he is right now, we don't know. By the time we left him in 2007, he was in Garamba. That's where we left him. But from 2007 to date, definitely we don't know where he is right now. Sometimes he's at large, sometimes we're here in Central Africa Republic, but he's not in Uganda. And it is out of that conversation that we see coins promising that he will not shoot a gun again into Uganda. And when he does that, then coin now becomes an international problem because he starts moving to different countries now, destabilizing Congo, destabilizing people in Sudan, destabilizing Central African Republic. And Uganda is here with peace back in northern Uganda and people being resettled out of the camps, going back to their homes.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Why do you think he didn't surrender, in a way? Why did he not just, you know, go back to the capital with you, continue peace talks, lay down arms and not escape further into the bush of Central African Republic, where he's still at large. And we're talking about nearly 20 years later.

[Narrator/Host]

For a man who has been a rebel for so many years, and he knows definitely the law is waiting for him, whether it's at the national level or international level. It's not just easy to pack your bags one morning and you just walk into Uganda. Now that he's in the icc, it's out of our hands. We cannot do much about it. He just has to face the icc. And because now this is an international court, it's no longer a Ugandan case. It's a case of other countries as well who are now suffering as a result of code.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Judith Obina Okumu also has a book out called 14 Days with the Hidden Heroes. Joseph Konyi remains at large. And the Lord's Resistance army is not what it once was. Some of its commanders are dead. Others are in prison for war crimes. And there is peace in northern Uganda. The United nations children's charity says that for the first time, there are more children in the world who are obese than underweight. UNICEF says the number of overweight and obese teenagers around the world has nearly tripled in the last two decades. And the number of overweight children aged between 5 to 9 years old has increased from 69 million to 147 million children. Obesity is a severe form of being overweight and is linked to A higher risk of type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease and certain cancers in later life. Researchers blame a shift from traditional diets to ones heavily reliant on ultra processed foods that are relatively cheap and high in calories. South Africa is a case in point. And I've been speaking to Maeni Jones, the BBC's correspondent in South Africa. Mayeni visited a school which is promoting healthy eating habits, something that is sometimes at odds with how many people live now.

[Mayeni Jones]

So the Cairo School of Inquiry is a school in one of Johannesburg's northern suburbs in Parkview. And they've decided to implement vegetarian food policy. The reason they've decided to do that is because they say they want to promote conversations around healthy eating around the school. They find that when the kids start at the school and they discover that they can only bring in vegetarian food or mostly vegetarian food, that leads to lots of questions and it's an opportunity for learning.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So what did the students make of it?

[Mayeni Jones]

Well, I mean, South Africa is a meat loving nation. So according to school management, there was initial resistance from the students themselves. Actually, they were like, parents are quite receptive to the healthy message. But a lot of the students, you know, they loved their meats, they were resistant, but they say over the course of the school year they've really come round to the idea and they're now kind of very enthusiastically taking part of it. We sat down with them at lunchtime and we heard what they thought about the food.

[Nomsa Maseko]

So today on the menu it's kitchari.

[Narrator/Host]

Which is a mix of dal and rice with tomato chutney, halloumi and salmon. Can I have the maximum on the lounge?

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Yes. Okay, so that's dal and rice, no meat, tomato chutney. As a South African, I can see that there might be difficulties with that. But what food can parents bring to the school to feed their children?

[Mayeni Jones]

Yeah, so parents are encouraged to bring in whole foods, so fruits, vegetables, homemade food, and they're strongly discouraged from bringing in anything that's processed. So no fizzy drinks, you know, no sweets, no chocolates, those kind of things.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

I imagine that lots of parents would actually be happy about that. The no sweets, no fizzy drinks, because, you know, people are becoming more and more sensitive about the effects of sugar on children and their behavior. You also spoke to their head teacher. What did he say?

[Mayeni Jones]

Yeah, so for the head teacher, Mark Loon, he said that, you know, even though this might be challenging for students, he believes that the long term benefits are worth it.

[Narrator/Host]

If all schools were to emulate our intention of being thoughtful and conscious of health and what children are putting into their bodies and what food is being sold to children like chocolates and sweets and sugary fizzy drinks, the health to the children would be served and the conversations that would emerge from the food policy would enormously benefit the children's health.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Mayeni we're talking about this because UNICEF has identified what it calls a crisis in children's health concerning obesity. You know, children being overweight. And one of the issues that is specifically addressed is processed food. And we heard in the clip talking about processed food, I suppose, being banned. But I'm just wondering, what is it about processed food that is not good for children?

[Mayeni Jones]

So the argument that UNICEF makes in this report, which actually is a global report and it shows that this is an issue around the world in developing economies and advanced ones. The issue with processed food is that, you know, when children are growing up, they need foods that have plenty of vitamins and nutritional benefits. They need fruits, vegetables, protein, because they all play a vital role in their ability to grow, in their ability to kind of develop, for their brains to develop well and in terms of future mental health. And the problem with processed food, and ultra processed food particularly, is that they don't have many nutrients and they're often high in sugar, starch, salt, unhealthy fats and additives. All of these things research has shown are not good for children when they're developing. They don't have the nutrients that they need. And that's why UNICEF is saying parents need to try and cut back on them.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Well, I'm just wondering how widespread this approach to nutrition in schools is being used to address childhood obesity in South Africa and also in Africa.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Mayeni Jones]

The school we visited certainly wasn't typical. A lot of schools obviously have to feed a number of children, particularly government funded school, have to feed kind of kids on a budget. And that's actually the challenge that UNICEF has identified that, you know, when you're looking at developing economies, some of the poorer countries, you find rates of overweight in richer families. But actually in middle income economies like in South Africa, because more people can afford to eat out, there's been a real growth in fast food restaurants and it's often cheaper than buying stuff that's fresh. And that's why UNICEF says that food systems around the world are failing kids, because many governments haven't yet found a way to make whole foods, fresh foods, foods that are rich in nutrients, affordable for the majority. So we spoke to UNICEF South Africa and this is what they had to say.

[Narrator/Host]

My Name is Gilbert Chitauudzi.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

I work for UNICEF South Africa as the nutrition manager.

[Narrator/Host]

Previously, we would always blame an individual.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

That an individual is not exercising, an individual is not eating healthy. But we know that that is not really the case.

[Narrator/Host]

How do you expect an individual to live a healthier lifestyle and also to eat healthy if the environment does not enable them to do that?

[Mayeni Jones]

South Africa is a country that's really well known for having a robust agricultural sector. Why can't families access fresh produce when so much of it is grown here?

[Narrator/Host]

South Africa is known to be food secure, but when you go to household, households don't have means to access healthier options. It means that they do not have money.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

We know that the high unemployment rate.

[Narrator/Host]

In this country does contribute.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So that's Gilbert Daudzi there from unicef. What has the South African government done to tackle the growth in obesity in children?

[Mayeni Jones]

Well, one of the main things they've done is they introduced a tax on sweetened sugar, sweetened beverages, in 2018, which UNICEF says has been really good in terms of reducing the overall consumption of these beverages, which are incredibly calorific and not very good for you. Obviously, they admit that doing that by itself is not going to reduce childhood obesity because they say they need to tackle things like unhealthy diets and sedentary lifestyles. One of the ways they try to do that is by introducing some campaigns around, you know, healthy eating in communities. They've also put them on radio and tv. They say that they've introduced some regulation on how much salt there is in food that are sold in South Africa, how many, you know, bad fats there are and how much sugar there is, particularly when it comes to formula for babies. Because they say in South Africa, challenges around childhood overweight actually starts when the child starts drinking formula. A lot of the formula that's sold, not just in South Africa, actually around the continent, has too much sugar in it. So they're trying to introduce regulation to reduce that. And they're working on regulation to have information, simple information about nutrition at the front of packaging. So if you're a mom or a dad and you're in the supermarket shopping, right at the front of the package, you can see basic information about how nutritious this food is that you're about to buy.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Should the rest of Africa be concerned about this? Because very often South Africa seems to be leading in regard to some of these trends. Is it elsewhere?

[Mayeni Jones]

Yeah, there's a number of countries in Africa, some of the countries that had the highest prevalence of, you know, overweight amongst children that school aged children aged 5 to 19 were Mauritania. Mauritania is just above South Africa, 22%. Also Eswatini 19%. Ghana, Gabon and Cameroon were all the same at 17% and Botswana 16%. So there are a number of African countries affected by this. And so the warning really for other African countries is put in place. Regulation now limits how much of these harmful foods can be marketing to kids. Make sure you label things properly. You know, stop the fast food industry from being involved in policy. Do that now to avoid having these issues as your economies develop.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

The BBC's Miami Jones in Johannesburg. This is Focus on Africa from the BBC World Service. This is the story of the One As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Grainger to stay fully stocked on the products and.

[Narrator/Host]

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[Anna Holligan]

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[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

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This is the story of the One As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger, because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes.

[Mayeni Jones]

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Specs for the replacement product he needs and next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

Now let me ask you this, has your country ever had a woman president or prime minister? If you say yes, you are in the global minority of minorities. In 2024, the Pew Research center said that only 31% of United nations member states have ever had a woman serve as head of government. Malawians who've had a woman president in the person of Joyce Banda will get another chance to choose her because she's standing again in elections next week and she's won in a field of 17. President Lazarus Chakwera is hoping to be re elected for a second term and his main rival is Peter Mutharika, who has also held office once before. Civil society organizations in Malawi have been pushing for more women in politics, running a campaign known as 50 50, which advocates for 50% women representatives in parliament. The BBC's Nomsa Maseko is covering the elections and she's been taking a look at how women are faring so far.

[Nomsa Maseko]

So women make up 57% of the total number of registered voters, and the complete number is about just over 7 million registered voters in the country. And yet women do not get elected to top positions. And when you look at it, it is because it's quite expensive to even run for, to be a local councillor, even, you know, an MP or let alone being president. Because $57 for you to be nominated to become a local councillor, you need to pay DOL and for an MP, $700, and for the presidential candidate, 5,500. So that's a lot of money. And this is even made by the fact that women in this election, because of protests and negotiations and demands, women are now going to be paying half of what their male counterparts are paying for. And that only is for the local councillors and MPs, but for presidential candidates, everyone has to pay the same amount.

[Narrator/Host]

As a woman, it's important to support fellow women who are contesting.

[Nomsa Maseko]

In my case, if there was no requirement to pay nomination fees, I'd contest as a counselor.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

So women are definitely interested in supporting women candidates and they're also interested in being involved in the process. You, you spoke about the money and I imagine that there's a lot of conversation around what to do about that, right?

[Nomsa Maseko]

Absolutely. There is actually a movement which is the Women's Manifesto Movement, which was started by Maggie Katuera Banda. And in the things that she has been doing is that she's been running, you know, crisscrossing around all parts of Malawi, speaking to women who are interested in joining politics. Those women have, are being trained on what it is to be a leader, to be a local councillor, to be an mp. And in many of these cases, the Women's Manifesto Movement actually helps these women with money so that they are able to apply and become nominated for them to take part in the election. But at the same time, many of them don't even have bank accounts.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

We have been implementing a project which we are calling Promoting Gender Inclusive and Youth Transformative Project. So that project has been targeting women as parents. So women that have expressed interest to contest as MPs as counsellors, we have actually been training them. We have done a lot of trainings the whole Malawi explaining to them, what is the role of an mp, what is the role of a counsellor, how can they put up effective campaigns, how do they work with communities, how do they come up with manifestos that are going to Appeal to the communities and all. So that's Maggie Katuera there, whom you spoke to. Nomsa. Are women hopeful that they can break the glass ceiling? Because six out of 17 of the presidential candidates have picked women as running mates. I'm not sure if Malawians are convinced that this was done out of principle or whether it was done out of expediency. And the other thing is, in the last parliament of Malawi, there were 193 MPs, but only 45 of them were, were women, even though that was actually a slight improvement from 32 previously. So what do Malawians make of this?

[Nomsa Maseko]

Well, Malawians think that the, the women running mates that have been picked by the top presidential candidates is, is just for convenience. It, it's not out of a genuine concern or a need to get women in the top positions. But of course, those people that have picked female running mates will disagree with that. At the same time, I actually spoke to a vice president of party, Helen Chabunya, who was not picked as a running mate in her party, even though she is a vice president. But she believes that things are going to turn around in the future.

[Narrator/Host]

What we need to change is to have those critical discussions about in Africa at a Pan African level and trickle it down to Malawi. What can these parties do, what can our legislation do, what can our party constitutions do to ensure that women do have a seat at the table right now for this election? I'm hopeful even though the key four political parties which the contest is for, none of them have got a female presidential candidate. But Trust me, in 2030, our generation, my people right now, our generation, is going to ensure that this never happens again. We're working towards breaking down those barriers.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

That's Helen Chabunya there and she sounds very dynamic and very determined. What's the atmosphere like around these elections?

[Nomsa Maseko]

This election is quite different. I mean, for a journalist who has reported on Malawi's elections in the past, this time around there's no election fever per se, particularly in here in the capital Lilongwe. But in other areas in the south and north of the country where the president, the incumbent and the two former presidents have been running their election rallies, there has been huge support and a showing from their supporters. But there's very few billboards that we have seen in the past, it seems like money definitely is a problem. There aren't as many advertisements or billboards or even, you know, people try driving around and having, you know, on loud hailing, telling people who they should vote for, like in the past.

[Narrator/Host]

It's very quiet.

[Nomsa Maseko]

But I think that the reason why things are like that is the fact that there is a serious petrol fuel shortage in this country. We have seen queues at petrol stations that, you know, stretch for kilometers between border borders and other motorists. There's even been an exchange of punches that we've seen at the pumps because people have become so impatient because they wanted petrol. Now it's finished and now what? But there's also the problem of continuous and regular power outages here in the country. So Malawians are saying they've been voting and voting and voting, but nothing's changed. And that is why we have seen a large number actually of eligible voters who are not registered to vote in this election.

[BBC Presenter/Reporter]

That's Nomsa Maseko in Malawi. Focus on Africa came together through the heroic efforts of Sunita Nahar and Priya Sipi. Patricia Whitehorn was the senior producer in charge patsisons our technical producer. Our editors are Andre Lombard, Mariam Abdallah and Alice Mudengi. I'm Audrey Brown and we'll talk again next time.

[Narrator/Host]

At the BBC. We go further so you see clearer. Through frontline reporting, global stories and local insights, we bring you closer to the world's news as it happens. And it starts with a subscription to BBC.com giving you unlimited articles and videos, ad free podcasts and the BBC News channel, streaming live 24. 7. Subscribe to trusted independent journalism from the BBC. Find out [e-mail] join.