Africa Daily – "Why is writer Taban Lo Liyong not ready to stop working?"

Podcast: Africa Daily by BBC World Service
Host: Alan Kasuja
Guest: Taban Lo Liyong (with archival and contemporary conversation, also referenced as "Afoyo Matek Ladit")
Date: February 18, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth and intimate interview with legendary South Sudanese author and scholar Taban Lo Liyong, marking his 93rd birthday. Alan Kasuja explores Lo Liyong's reflections on life, literature, language, and Africa’s past and future. The conversation spans his early years, literary influences, views on African literature and language, memories of friendship, loss, and the role—and risks—of being a writer over decades of political and cultural upheaval.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Early Life, Family, and Identity

• Childhood memories and migration:

  • Taban Lo Liyong recounts his family's move on foot from Southern Sudan to Uganda as a toddler.
  • His early life was shaped by navigating identity through language:

    "I was torn between two languages, between my own mother's language, which is Kuku, and between the language of the people I lived in, which is Acholi. So I was always trying to find the right word for this and the right word for that." – Taban Lo Liyong [00:03]

• Formative years in Uganda:

  • Uganda is close to his heart, with most formative experiences and friendships rooted there.
  • "Uganda, particularly Uganda... Those ones are gone because they were young people who... the disease that used to take a lot of young people took a lot of them. And when I came back from America, I was told, if ever you don't see any of your friends, don't ask where he is, because then it means they are gone." – Taban Lo Liyong [03:26]

On Humanity, Writing, and the Role of the Writer

• Reflections on the human condition:

  • Taban wryly critiques human progress, drawing on Christian myth:

    "According to the Christian mythology, God ... created the world in six days. And on the seventh day he went to rest. Unfortunately, he did not resume the repair on Monday. The world has been deteriorating ever since those first six days. So it is up to the writers, up to the moralists, up to the religious leaders to do the repair job." – Taban Lo Liyong [01:02]

• The enduring necessity of critique:

  • He laments a decline in fearless literary and political criticism:

    "The writers of our time who used to criticize the government are no longer there. ... Book lovers have been scared by the government for criticizing them. ... African universities should give professorships of literature in their countries to the best scholars, because now we don't have scholars who are as tough as we were in our own time." – Taban Lo Liyong [11:17]

Language, Identity, and Literary Innovation

• On language and writing:

  • He identifies more with Acholi language than his mother's Kuku, having also authored works in Acholi:

    "In terms of language, it is actually that I know [Acholi] most more than Kuku language. And that is also the one in which I've written a book." – Taban Lo Liyong [05:14]

• "Democracy of letters":

  • Taban coins a striking literary philosophy:

    "I want the democracy of letters. Let it all be in small letters." – Taban Lo Liyong [09:19, 10:37]

  • By writing a whole book in lowercase, he challenges literary hierarchies and conventions.

• Recognition in South Sudan:

  • Despite much of his history rooted outside, his writings are now gaining acknowledgment among South Sudanese book lovers:

    "My writing has now been recognized by South Sudanese book lovers and so on. Yeah, that has heard a lot." – Taban Lo Liyong [10:37]

Literary Friendships and the Golden Era

• Encounters with African literary titans:

  • He shares memories of meeting leaders and writers—Jomo Kenyatta, Kwame Nkrumah, Wole Soyinka, Chinua Achebe, and Okot p’Bitek.
  • On Achebe and the Nobel snub:

    "The language of Sinua Achebe is the first language of African writers. He had a way of writing. He made it great African like. And that is what should have been given the Nobel Literature Prize. I think it should have been given to Achebe." – Taban Lo Liyong [06:13]

• The golden age of African writing:

  • He recalls the 1950s and 60s as a vibrant period for writers aligned closely with independence movements:

    "It was a very good time of writers, the days when African independence was coming. And the politicians look at us as ... people who would publicize them. ... Unfortunately, most African writers did not criticize the writings of fellow Africans." – Taban Lo Liyong [08:14]

Views on Mortality, Memory, and Loss

• Remembering friends lost to HIV/AIDS:

  • The devastation wrought by HIV/AIDS on his generation looms large:

    "Most of the boys with whom I grew up, that sexual disease took some of them, and I wish that did not happen." – Taban Lo Liyong [02:34, 13:09]

• On aging and memory:

  • He contemplates the process of growing old and cherishing memories:

    "There are periods when you remember certain things stage by stage ... where we used to go hunting, where we go swimming, where we used to do this and that and so on. I remember all of them. Unfortunately, I can't share those memories with anybody who was with us." – Taban Lo Liyong [13:09]

On Courage, Criticism, and Academic Freedom

• Censorship and consequences:
  • He was suspended from the University of Juba in 2020 for criticizing the government:

    "Yeah, I felt that there are certain things that were happening in South Sudan or happening in Sudan which needed criticism." – Taban Lo Liyong [12:42]

Legacy, Ambitions, and Relentless Creativity

• On being remembered:

  • He wishes to leave a legacy as a writer in Acholi, and for championing the "democracy of letters":

    "I want to be remembered for writing a book in Ajuri and it is doing very well and I feel good about that one. Also. I wish to be remembered for the democracy of letters..." – Taban Lo Liyong [14:06]

• On not retiring:

  • Even at 93, Taban Lo Liyong is unready to stop writing:

    "Yeah, I have two more books to write. Because as far as I'm concerned, at this age, things just come by themselves." – Taban Lo Liyong [14:37]

• His enduring goal:

  "I need to live 110 if my maker permits it. But I want to reach there with my mind on." – Taban Lo Liyong [13:09]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Unfortunately, he did not resume the repair on Monday. The world has been deteriorating ever since those first six days."
  – Taban Lo Liyong critiquing the myth of human perfectibility, [01:02]

• "I want the democracy of letters. Let it all be in small letters."
  – Taban Lo Liyong on literary experimentation and equality, [09:19]

• "I think it should have been given to Achebe."
  – On Chinua Achebe and the Nobel Prize, [06:13]

• "At this age, things just come by themselves."
  – On creative compulsion in old age, [14:37]

Important Timestamps

• [00:03–01:30] – Taban Lo Liyong’s early journey from Sudan to Uganda and reflections on humanity
• [02:34–03:26] – HIV/AIDS and the loss of a generation
• [05:14–05:57] – Language preferences and writing in Acholi
• [06:13–06:48] – On Chinua Achebe and Nobel recognition
• [08:14–09:01] – The golden age of African writing and its limitations
• [09:19–10:37] – "Democracy of letters" and literary innovation
• [11:17–12:34] – On the challenges for contemporary African writers and universities
• [12:42] – Suspension from University of Juba for government criticism
• [13:09–14:37] – Reflections on aging, memory, legacy, and the urge to keep writing

Conclusion

This episode offers an evocative portrait of a singular African literary voice—restless, subversive, and endlessly creative into his tenth decade. Taban Lo Liyong reveals the personal and political costs of authorship in Africa, his lifelong wrestling with language and identity, and the ongoing urgency to bear witness and repair the world through words. His energy and humor, as well as his resolve to keep writing, shine throughout, making this a fitting celebration of both his legacy and his unfinished story.

"I have two more books to write. Because as far as I'm concerned, at this age, things just come by themselves." – Taban Lo Liyong [14:37]