Podcast Summary: After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal Episode: Black Death: Inside Medieval Lockdown
Release Date: March 17, 2025
Host: History Hit (Hosted by Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling)
Guest: Dr. Helen Carr, Medieval Historian

Introduction

In this gripping episode of After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal, hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling delve deep into one of history’s most devastating pandemics—the Black Death. Joined by esteemed medieval historian Dr. Helen Carr, the conversation unpacks the societal, cultural, and personal impacts of the plague, challenging long-held myths and offering fresh perspectives on life during the 14th century.

Setting the Scene: Florence, 1348

The episode opens with an evocative narration transporting listeners to Florence in 1348, amidst the horrors of the Black Death. The immersive description paints a vivid picture of a city paralyzed by fear, death, and the overwhelming stench of the plague.

Anthony Delaney [02:09]: "1348 Florence... But who can blame them? Everyone is surviving this as best they can."

Understanding the Black Death's Impact

Maddy Pelling introduces the staggering statistic that approximately half of Europe’s population perished due to the Black Death. The hosts recognize the challenge of comprehending such a vast loss and aim to explore the human experience behind the numbers.

Maddy Pelling [05:54]: "It's really, really, really hard to get your head around that statistic, to get to the human experience at the heart of it."

Guest Introduction: Dr. Helen Carr

Dr. Helen Carr, author of the forthcoming Sceptered: A History of the 14th Century, joins the discussion to provide expert insights. She emphasizes the Black Death's pivotal role in shaping the century, highlighting its profound demographic and social repercussions.

Helen Carr [06:27]: "There are shifts in social hierarchy. There are shifts forward in how people consider death... it shaped the rest of history into the early modern period."

The Human Experience During the Plague

Shifting focus to the personal level, the conversation contrasts Edward III’s experiences as a monarch with those of the ordinary medieval peasant.

Maddy Pelling [10:18]: "What was the experience of the ordinary, say, medieval peasant going through the Black Death?"

Dr. Carr explains that peasants suffered the most due to cramped living conditions, facilitating the rapid spread of the disease. However, surviving the plague empowered many to reject serfdom, leading to significant social mobility.

Helen Carr [11:37]: "They were living in more cramped conditions... One of the major social changes is the serf class... they started to demand a wage."

Challenging Literary Accounts: Boccaccio vs. Reality

Anthony Delaney introduces Giovanni Boccaccio’s Decameron, sharing a bleak account of societal breakdown where even families abandon each other during the plague.

Anthony Delaney [12:37]: "It says this scourge had implanted so great a terror... even fathers and mothers refused to nurse and assist their own children."

Dr. Carr counters this portrayal, suggesting Boccaccio’s narrative is exaggerated to evoke catastrophe. She cites archaeological evidence showing communities maintained strong bonds, caring for the dead and supporting each other.

Helen Carr [13:04]: "I think from what I've seen, people were actually very caring for the dead... people were very considerate for the people who lived around them within their communities."

Anthony Delaney [15:02]: "So what you're saying is Helen Carr says Boccaccio can get in the bin."

Helen Carr [15:07]: "Quote me on that."

Symptoms and Reactions to the Plague

Dr. Carr details the progression of the plague, from initial flu-like symptoms to the development of buboes—painful lymph node swellings that turn dark due to infected blood.

Helen Carr [15:22]: "You'd start to develop these sort of flu-like symptoms... then you'd start to sweat profusely... those sorts of blackenings around the body."

She humorously notes the visible aftermath of surviving buboes, likening it to early vaccine recipients.

Helen Carr [16:49]: "If you did survive the buboes burst... you were like walking around with the sort of swagger."

The Role of the Flagellants

The hosts explore the phenomenon of the flagellants—groups who engaged in self-flagellation as extreme penitence. These individuals traveled through communities, whipping themselves in imitation of Christ’s suffering.

Helen Carr [27:58]: "They were groups of people mostly from northern Europe who traveled into England... as an act of extreme penitence."

The discussion highlights mixed community reactions, suggesting these acts were often seen as selfless attempts to appease divine wrath rather than mere public disturbances.

Helen Carr [29:48]: "Communities saw this as more of a selfless act in relation to trying to redeem mankind."

Community Measures and Ordinances

Anthony presents historical ordinances from Pistoia, Italy, illustrating the stringent measures communities enacted to curb the plague's spread. These included restrictions on movement, burning of potentially contaminated items, and regulated burials to manage foul odors believed to carry the disease.

Anthony Delaney [31:03]: "No one was to enter the city or leave without permission... corpses may be taken out of homes only in caskets."

Dr. Carr compares these to similar measures in England, emphasizing a collective, community-minded approach to public health—a stark contrast to some modern responses to pandemics.

Helen Carr [35:49]: "They had to stay within their homes if they had a member of the family infected... very community-minded."

Transformative Aftermath: Social and Technological Shifts

Post-Plague society saw significant transformations. The decline of serfdom, the rise of the merchant class, and increased roles for women in trades and public life marked a departure from medieval norms.

Helen Carr [44:48]: "There was a lot more... a lot of innovation. The rise of technology... the development of ale drinking with brewsters."

Anthony reflects on these changes, marveling at the emergence of public timekeeping with the introduction of clocks in communities, symbolizing a new era of organization and progress.

Anthony Delaney [50:04]: "The idea that clocks start appearing more after the Black Death for some... changes the world slightly."

The Power of Diverse Historical Perspectives

Highlighting the importance of diverse voices in history, Anthony praises female historians like Dr. Carr for bringing nuanced and fresh perspectives to medieval studies. Dr. Carr shares insights on how gendered interpretations can reshape our understanding of historical events, challenging previously biased narratives.

Anthony Delaney [48:27]: "Some of the most exciting work on the medieval period is being done by female historians."

Helen Carr [49:03]: "Women look at sources and they read them differently... you have to buy the book to read it."

Conclusion

This episode of After Dark dismantles pervasive myths about the Black Death, presenting a more compassionate and community-oriented view of medieval society during the plague. Through expert analysis and engaging storytelling, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the resilience and ingenuity of people who lived through one of history’s darkest times.

Maddy Pelling [51:58]: "We expand into Europe in 2027, so I'm getting ready."
(Note: This quote appears to be part of an advertisement and is not related to the episode content.)

Notable Quotes

• Helen Carr [06:27]: "There are shifts in social hierarchy... it shaped the rest of history into the early modern period."

• Anthony Delaney [15:07]: "Quote me on that."

• Helen Carr [35:49]: "They had to stay within their homes if they had a member of the family infected... very community-minded."

• Maddy Pelling [44:04]: "What's the weirdest thing you've come across people doing to try and avoid catching the plague?"

Additional Resources

• Book Mentioned: Sceptered: A History of the 14th Century by Dr. Helen Carr. Available for pre-order at Waterstones and major online retailers.
• Subscribe to History Hit: Access hundreds of hours of original documentaries and ad-free podcasts at historyhit.com/subscribe.

After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal continues to explore the shadowy and intriguing facets of history, offering listeners compelling narratives and expert insights into the events that have shaped our world.