Britain's First Ghost Hunt

Summary

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After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal

Episode: Britain's First Ghost Hunt

Hosts: Anthony Delaney, Dr. Eleanor Yanaga
Date: March 26, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

In this engrossing episode of After Dark, Anthony Delaney and guest co-host Dr. Eleanor Yanaga journey into the shadowed halls of Hinton Ampner, exploring what is often dubbed “Britain’s first ghost hunt.” The pair unravel the chilling saga of the Ricketts family and the infamous 18th-century haunting that would help set the template for haunted house stories ever since.
This episode looks beyond gothic tropes, linking the haunting to the grim realities of its era—particularly the transatlantic slave trade—and how wealth, scandal, gender, and class influenced not just the experience of ghosts but the stories told around them.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Setting: Hinton Ampner’s Dark Past

• [03:41] The haunting centers on Hinton Ampner, a Hampshire estate rented by the wealthy Ricketts family, whose fortune was built on Jamaican slave plantations.
• The house’s dark history—filled with scandal, unexplained deaths, and the wealth of “untold bloodshed and human misery” ([13:40], Dr. Yanaga)—forms an eerie backdrop.

Shifting Perceptions of Ghosts Through History

• [05:49–09:02] Dr. Yanaga discusses the evolution of ghost beliefs:
  • Medieval and ancient ghosts were often linked to purgatory (“Purgatory is hell with a timer.” [08:23], Dr. Yanaga).
  • By the 18th century—following Protestant reforms—ghosts shift from souls in need of prayers to disturbingly present, unexplainable phenomena: knocks, apparitions, slamming doors.

Scandal and Haunting: The Stowell Family Saga

• [13:54–15:06] The narrative traces scandals within the manor:
  • Mary Stokely's death, followed by rumors of her husband Edward Stowell’s affair with her sister Honoria.
  • Honoria possibly bears a child, which “never materializes.” The subsequent deaths of Honoria and Edward stoke local gossip and prime the house for stories of haunting.

The Ricketts Move In: Early Haunting Experiences

• [17:27] Mary Ricketts hears vehemently slammed doors and other noises soon after moving in:
  • Classic reactions: blame falls first on servants, then on villagers—reflecting both the class lens and social anxieties of the era ([18:07], Delaney/Dr. Yanaga).
  • “Where am I gonna go?” – humorously highlighting servant powerlessness ([18:45], Dr. Yanaga).

Escalation: Sightings and Apparitions

• [20:21–21:29] The first apparition is seen by Elizabeth Brailsford (nurse), followed by staff member Molly Newton.
• George Turner, a gardener’s son, also reports a “man in a dark coat” ([26:50], Dr. Yanaga).
• At first, Mary Ricketts dismisses the servant accounts as “tittle tattle” and a sign of their “disordered mind” ([27:38], Dr. Yanaga), paralleling Enlightenment skepticism and class prejudice.

Gender and Class in Ghost Narratives

• [25:09–28:04] The early reports come from women and servants; escalation and “apparition phase” flow through working-class women.
• Upper-class men (William, and later John Jarvis) only take it “seriously” when their own senses are challenged.

Masculine Skepticism Meets the Supernatural

• [38:42–41:14] John Jarvis (Mary’s brother, an admiral) and Captain Luttrell decide on a proto-scientific “all-night vigil” to seek explanations, signaling the birth of the “ghost hunt.”
  • Both experience unexplainable footsteps, slamming doors, and other phenomena, ultimately deeming the house “inhospitable” (“We got a ghost... it is inhospitable.” [41:08], Dr. Yanaga).

Leaving Hinton Ampner: Consequences and Legacy

• [43:12–44:55] The Ricketts family finally abandons the house in 1772 after years of disturbances.
• It becomes so notorious for hauntings that it is eventually demolished in 1793.

Solutions, Explanations, and Moral Lessons

• [47:08–51:16] Popular explanations for the haunting include:
  • The ghosts of the Stowells (connected to adultery and rumored infanticide—a tiny skull is found, possibly a “dead baby under the floorboards” [47:40], Dr. Yanaga).
  • The idea that the atrocities and scandals (including the slave trade) create a haunting moral residue: “Maybe the guilt is keeping the ghosts walking.” ([47:55], Dr. Yanaga).
  • Or simply “Londoners who moved into a big old creaky house in the winter and got freaked out.” ([50:07], Dr. Yanaga).

The Haunting as Dark Historical Mirror

• [36:00–49:31] Throughout, hosts challenge listeners not to lose sight of the “real” horrors—the enslaved lives in Jamaica underpinning these ghostly tales:
  • “The really frightening thing is what's happening in Jamaica... that's the frightening thing.” ([12:27], Dr. Yanaga)
  • Delaney and Yanaga note the 19th-century retellings use the haunting as a veiled critique of slavery and aristocratic moral failings.

The Legacy: Template for Modern Ghost Stories

• [54:06–56:25] Hinton Ampner’s story gives rise to “the gothic blueprint” for haunted houses:
  • Characteristics established: a grand house, escalating stages of haunting, narrative linking past sins/scandal to ghostly unrest.
  • Its details echo in later works like The Turn of the Screw and The Haunting of Hill House.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On 18th-century ghosts:
  “This is the classic haunted house story in many ways. This is where it all began. This is really the beginnings of investigations into hauntings, and there's just a really different and very modern take on what ghosts are here.” – Dr. Eleanor Yanaga [05:58]

• On purgatory:
  “Purgatory isn't like limbo—people think it's like limbo. Purgatory is hell with a timer.” – Dr. Eleanor Yanaga [08:23]

• On the “real” horror at the heart of the haunting:
  “The scary thing is like, what's happening in Jamaica? Like, that's the frightening thing!” – Dr. Eleanor Yanaga [12:27]

• Class & gender bias in the ghost story:
  “You have a disordered mind. And of course you have a disordered mind because you're poor.” – Dr. Eleanor Yanaga [28:01]

• The modern “ghost hunt”:
  “Classic ghost hunt. We see this in the 20th century, we do it now... they're up at night and they're like, yeah, there's footsteps walking across the lobby.” – Anthony Delaney [40:20]

• On morality and guilt:
  “Maybe the guilt is keeping the ghosts walking.” – Dr. Yanaga [47:55]

• On ghost stories as templates:
  “This is going to be like the gothic blueprint for the rest of time.” – Dr. Eleanor Yanaga [57:19]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:41] Introduction to Hinton Ampner and background
• [05:49–09:02] How ghosts were understood: medieval to Enlightenment
• [13:54–15:06] The Stowell scandal that “primes” the haunting
• [17:27–18:14] Mary Ricketts’ first ghostly experiences
• [21:29–26:17] Servants and other staff encounter apparitions
• [38:42–41:14] Admiral Jarvis and Captain Luttrell’s ghost hunt
• [43:12–44:55] The family’s departure and house’s fate
• [47:08–51:16] Theories explaining the haunting; the role of guilt/slavery/authenticity
• [54:06–57:19] Hinton’s legacy as the haunted house template

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Conclusion

This episode not only delivers a meticulously detailed haunting—from midnight groans to class and gender tensions—but also uses the ghost story to reflect on broader truths about history, morality, and memory. Delaney and Yanaga skillfully blend irreverence (“Sister shagger and the shagged sister” [47:36], Yanaga) with sober historical analysis, making for both a spooky and thoughtful listen.

If you enjoy ghost stories that echo with the footsteps of real history and invite you to look beyond the veil, this episode of After Dark offers tales as chilling as they are revealing.

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Transcript

[Anthony Delaney]

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[Anthony Delaney]

Deep in the English countryside stands the grand Hympton Manor, centuries old and whispered to be haunted. Strange lights flicker in empty halls, doors slam on their own, and those who stay too long tell stories of footsteps, whispers and shadows that should not exist. In this episode, we enter Hinton Ampner, long spoken of as one of the great haunted houses of Georgian England. We'll follow the reports of midnight disturbances, investigations in the age of enlightenment, and a spirit said to stalk the rooms long after death. Join us as we step beyond the candlelight and into the shadows of Hympton Ampner to witness one of England's earliest ghost hunts and to confront the darkness that stirred within its walls. Hello and welcome to a spook edition of After Dark. My name's Anthony.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

My name is Eleanor.

[Anthony Delaney]

And today we are. Well. Before we get into that, I should acknowledge that of course Eleanor is not Maddie. You may have seen this and noticed this before. Maddy. Of course these two women are different people.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That's crazy to me.

[Anthony Delaney]

I know. It's crazy the way women can have individual lives. This is because Maddie has been in the Andes, discovering a new civilization of people that has hitherto for being unknown to us. It's just. That's Maddie all over.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That's right. That's right.

[Anthony Delaney]

Plus, she's had a baby.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Of course. I mean, but listen, that's not what defines me.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, the baby's on the back. She's gone to the Andes or whatever I said earlier.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That's right. Or whatever.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, whatever. Lie I made up. And by lie, I mean the absolute truth. And she would love this episode. I'm talking about her like, she's died now. Like, calm down. She's coming back. It's fine. But she would have loved this because we are talking about a ghost story today, and it's an 18th century ghost story, so she would have loved it. There's so many people that I just went. Ghost story. Oh, God, I hate myself. Anyway, Eleanor, you suggested this, and it is an infamous ghost story, as I said, from Georgian England. And it is a story that, even though it is mid to late 18th century, it has all the hallmarks of a gothic ghost story that we might know from the 19th century. Let's say it centers around a family called the Ricketts. Very glamorous. They are a wealthy family from a Jamaican plantation, which, of course, is underpinned by the transatlantic slave trade. They rented the mansion Hinton Ampner in the south of England and endured escalating knocks, groans, crashes, and apparitions that terrified guests and resisted all attempts at rational investigation. The story reaches its climax and the house is declared uninhabitable in 1772, when they abandon it and the story becomes one of Georgian England's most famous hauntings. Taking us back to this story today is not me. I get to sit back and enjoy Georgian ghost story, but it's Eleanor.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yay.

[Anthony Delaney]

Thank you for guiding me through an ooky spooky history.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You are so welcome. I'm so excited about this because, listen, am I a very important medieval historian and broadcaster? Yes. But also known. Spooky bitch.

[Anthony Delaney]

Categorically known. Spookabit. But also currently writing a book on the history of ghosts.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That's correct. So, and this is the thing, you know, and my current research is focusing on ghost stories in different eras, how they change and why we tell them. And I'm telling you, Hinton Abner is so cool because it is, in my opinion, one of the most modern ghost stories that you can possibly have.

[Anthony Delaney]

So this is when you think we see the pattern that we understand from a haunted house history Start to really kind of materialize.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. As we tell a story, I think one of the things you were really going to say is like, oh, yeah, this is the classic haunted house story. And it's because this is the classic haunted house story in many ways. This is where it all began. This is really the beginnings of investigations into hauntings. And there's just a really different and very modern take on. On what ghosts are here. If you look at ghost stories from the medieval period, if you look at ghost stories from the ancient period, they look very different.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, let's talk about that as a way to kick this conversation off then, because we always try to with these stories, and I know you'll be doing exactly the same in your new book. We try to situate these ghost stories with the history around it. And you're hinting at it already there, which I love this idea that what a ghost was in potentially 1238, is not necessarily what a ghost looks like or. Or does or whatever in 1772. So let's talk about this moment in time, late 18th century. What is a late 18th century ghost?

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Are.

[Anthony Delaney]

Are we at the. The spooky bed sheets thing yet, or are we not quite there?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, we're getting there.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Is the answer. And part of what is happening here and part of what a ghost is, is they begin to do things like the knocking.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So noises, unexplained noises, Things like this. Objects moving. And now, this isn't to say that doesn't happen before, unfortunately, in the past. In the medieval period. In the ancient period, we very rarely get to hear from individuals who tell ghost stories that would line up with things that we would expect to hear. Right. Really, we hear, like, from the church in the medieval period. We hear in the ancient period from, you know, the myth of Gilgamesh.

[Adam Grant]

Sure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. Like, that's where ghosts are.

[Anthony Delaney]

Of course, normal people are not recording their ghostly experiences in 1200. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, not that the rickets are a particularly normal family, but, you know, they're able to really write this down. But you have to also understand that what is kind of happening with ghost stories at the time is we're having

[Anthony Delaney]

an interesting time religiously in the late 18th century.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yes.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So, you know, we have now come on to, like, here in England, very particularly the Protestant era. Right. And so as a result of this, one of the big things that happened is Protestants say there's no such thing as purgatory.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yep.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. So for medieval ghost, for example, the major medieval ghost has come from purgatory I see. Okay. So in purgatory, I say this all the time, but purgatory isn't like limbo. People think it's like limbo. It's neither here nor there. Purgatory is hell with a timer. Okay. So you're experiencing everything that's happening in hell, but you're gonna get let out eventually. And ghosts are able to show up, be like, oh, my God, please.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, this is bad.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

This is. I'm having a bad time. I'm having a bad time.

[Anthony Delaney]

Go and pray for me.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, please pray for me. Please. I would go to the church and have 12 masses.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes. It'll cost you a shilling, a Mass,

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

you know, like said, for my soul. And then I'll be led out of hell. And. And that's what ghosts are usually doing when we hear from them in the medieval period.

[Anthony Delaney]

Great.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

We don't have that anymore in England. Right. So basically, it's like, well, in theory, a ghost should either be in heaven or in hell. Like, there shouldn't even be ghosts around in the area. Right. This will be a big thing in the German lands. Like, Germans will be like, no, there's no such thing as ghost. You can't have a ghost. But people are still experiencing things and relating to them as though they are ghosts.

[Anthony Delaney]

It is some kind of a haunting or a spiritual intervention thing. You know what's really interesting? Listening to you talk there. I grew up Catholic, very much not that now, but culturally and socially, you have that idea of purgatory still, even in the 1990s, floating around. And this is very much a place that one might go to. So it's so easy for us to be, like, disable, to distance ourselves from these ideas of the places that the dead are going. But up until relatively recently, depending on how you worshiped, etcetera, this is still part of religious conversation. And therefore, we can imagine this being the case. I want to move now to Hinton and. Which, by the way, sounds like a character in Wuthering Heights.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's going to say, first of all, I adore the thing. Tell me about the house itself. What's the history around us? And I believe this is not the first time a scandal has attached itself to this house.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

New. Okay, so, like, this is one of them estates.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. It's down in Hampshire. It's near Alresford. And it has been going through various noble hands, basically since the conquest.

[Adam Grant]

Okay, Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

There have been various iterations of house, but the house in question that we're talking about is an 18th century house is still there.

[Anthony Delaney]

No.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. They tore it down because it was too haunted.

[Adam Grant]

Spooky house.

[Anthony Delaney]

So we have essentially a Palladian building, probably what, early 18th century, when they were doing all the rebuilds and stuff. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

But they're keeping the name cuz it's like, it's too fancy. So Hinton Ampner. It's coming from old English or middle English. And it comes from higna, which means homestead.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And like oftentimes kind of connected to monks. And then almond, which is like a church.

[Anthony Delaney]

Is it like arms officer?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Okay, so. And then. But by the time. Listen, it's the 18th century now. Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

Nobody's giving out arms now.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. And this is one of these places that it's changed hands a magillion bajillion times during the Civil War. It's going back and forth constantly in the way that these places do. And it's because it's a very desirable property. You know, like Hampshire in, I'm sure, like, I mean, particularly at the time in terms of how important shipping is close to London. Exactly. And like, listen, you know, for this particular family, they are back and forth to Jamaica all the time. This is the sort of place they

[Anthony Delaney]

need to be so important to kind of say then I suppose that this is underpinned by the enslaved labor of transported African people.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yes.

[Anthony Delaney]

That is how they're funding the building and rebuilding of this house at this particular moment in time in the 18th century.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Absolutely. And I think that one of the most scary things about the story is generally that we're just not talking about that part.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Everyone's like, the spooky ghosts. Oh my God, this poor woman is being terrorized by ghosts. And it's like. And where's her husband?

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. It's like, you know, where's the money coming from?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

The scary thing is like, what's happening in Jamaica? Like, that's the frightening thing. There are actual terrible things happening to people over in Jamaica. But we're worried about like one rich lady in Hampshire. Okay.

[Anthony Delaney]

And this is why these stories often are useful tools in the telling of history. Because it does exactly what you're just saying there.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You.

[Anthony Delaney]

You look at the details fine. And you can extract some history from there. But then you also look at what's being left out. And as you say, the narrative is, I'm presuming, some kind of an haunting that unfolds. But there is nothing about the actual human degradation that is happening to enable this to be able to take place. We talk about dark history on this all the time. That can come many different form. That is one of the darkest of all histories that's just percolating away in the background of everything. 18th century. You know, I was talking about this at a queer Georgian's talk recently where I was like, you know, you can get so easily lost in the big houses and the frills and the skirts and the wigs. And as 18th centuryists, this is one of our things that we have a responsibility to constantly say. So much of this is upheld by the enslaved labor of transported African people. And I think it's. We have. Unless you're saying it, you're not doing the history properly.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Exactly.

[Anthony Delaney]

Anyway, so we've established that that's the

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

background percolating in the background, untold bloodshed and human misery. Okay. But by 1719, we've got a woman named Mary Stokely, and she marries Edward Stowell, who is the fourth Baron Stowell.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right. So we're in minor aristocracy, but with plenty of money because they're in transportation, they're in shipping, they're in the slave trade. They're in plantations in Jamaica.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So these guys are. They're living down in Hympton Ampner, and they are living together with Mary's sister Honoria. Okay. And then Mary dies kind of unexpectedly in 1740. Mary kicks the bucket. Okay? Now then allegedly, Edward takes up a relationship with Honoria, the sister. The sister. And the village is like, ooh, they're at it. Oh, girl, oh, girl. They're added in the big house.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. Like, so 100, like, and everybody's kind of staring. They're like, I'm telling you, rich, no morals. Yes, true, correctly. Right. People have a rumor going around that Honoria is pregnant.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

But we never see the baby. Okay. The baby never materializes. So anor is looking really voluptuous with it.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, no, sure. But no, I'm going to let you find that word.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, there you go.

[Anthony Delaney]

I am a man and I'm not going to feel that.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I love that for you. Fantastic. Now and then, eventually, honoria dies in 1755.

[Anthony Delaney]

She's gone too.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay, yeah, Rip. And then Edward dies the year later in 1756.

[Anthony Delaney]

So this is that scandal.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, this is the scandal. So you gotta have a scandal for a haunting of a house.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

In Enter the Ricketts. Okay, okay, so we've got William Henry and Mary Ricketts. There. There was only five names.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

To choose from. So you could be Mary. Listen, so, okay, we got another Mary. But this is Mary Rick. So she moves into Hinton Ampner in 1765 from that London that you may have heard about.

[Anthony Delaney]

London, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Wow. And they move in with their two month old son. And also, you know, just like the whole cordery of servants. Untold numbers of servants. It's just like there's a village in there.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like I'm telling you, William Henry, as we state, has a family business.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

In Jamaica.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, I see. Right. I thought you were gonna say something.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

Like weird going on privately, but no, something devastating.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Mary Jervis, meanwhile, has made his acquaintance because she's from a naval family.

[Anthony Delaney]

This is wife.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah. So it basically boats girl.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So you know boat people. You know how it is.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

It's like, listen, like I don't know.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, they were insufferable then and they're insufferable now.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

They're never going to change. Dance? No, I'm talking about you. I love Dan. I don't want to see a boat around in the area. Listen, I don't think this is not master and commander girl. I don't know. Listen.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay, so Dan's an adventure boat person though, not like a yacht boat person.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That's true. And that's. That's important.

[Anthony Delaney]

I can take that.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

It's much more master and commander. It's much less cruise, I suppose. Go on.

[Anthony Delaney]

Now that you've dug yourself an early grave.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I simply love to insult my boss, you know. It's great. So, okay, here we go. They're all ensconced in your hymn ampner. And in the year that they move in, it's a really bad winter. Like this is something that we need to kind of like keep in mind. It's so. It's very, very cold. It's very, very snowy. We're still in this period where things are quite cold.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, cold.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Yeah. And around this time, Mary starts reporting that she's hearing things at night. Okay, okay. And she says this.

[Anthony Delaney]

Go on.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Soon after we were settled at hinton, I frequently heard noises in the night as of people shutting or rather slapping doors with vehemence. So William is like, listen, girl, you stay in bed, I'll go out.

[Anthony Delaney]

So William's still.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That William's not in Jamaica's not in Jamaica yet. He's. At first he's settling. He's settling. Wifey.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And he's like, okay, well I'm gonna go look out in the hallway and I'm gonna see who's making all this noise. Because who do we think is making all the noise? Kids, Servants.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, servants. Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Wow. These people don't know their place.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right, Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Oh, these disgusting pores in my house are slamming the doors.

[Anthony Delaney]

I love the way I go directly to. There's a problem.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Blame children, probably kids.

[Anthony Delaney]

But they're going, okay, servants.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And they're like, I hate these servants. And they at first are just like, the servants are intentionally messing with us. Like, the servants are quite bold. Yeah. Which is. And the servants are like, my good friend, you do pay me.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So. And like, it is the 18th century.

[Anthony Delaney]

Let's be.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So for real. Where am I gonna go?

[Anthony Delaney]

Them going? You do know it's the 18th century, right?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, like, where am I gonna go? Right. Where am I gonna go? And I know that. I know that you're not gonna, like, give me a rapper reference if I get let go, so whatever.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, no, they're not gonna. This. Yeah. They would just never. Really? Yeah. Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. So next they're like, okay, apparently it's not gonna be the servants. Next up, the villagers.

[Anthony Delaney]

So I just want to. Again, and I know I'm harping on about this, but they are not turning to the children with any suspicion at any point during this. But they're now turning to the villagers. Okay, so if it's not coming from within the house, it's the weirdos beyond the walls in the village that should never be interacting with us.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Exactly. And maybe they like, oh, maybe the pores are freezing to death out there and so they're trying to come into our house to warm up.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, because it's really cold.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Other disgusting things such as that, you know, or maybe they're just messing with them. That's another. That's another one of the ideas here is that maybe they're mad that a new rich family is in town and they don't like it and they're just stirring trouble up. Villagers are again, a Sir. It's the 18th century.

[Anthony Delaney]

I'm trying to survive.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, I am. Wow.

[Anthony Delaney]

I don't have stuff for my fire. I don't have time for. Yeah. I'm angry at you for having everything you have. But I'm.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

But also, who's milking this cow?

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. Like, I got other things to do. These people are too busy. And then, like, they kind of realize. Yeah, that probably seems stupid too. Okay. This is going on for six some months or so. Right. And eventually their nurse, Elizabeth Brailsford, says she sees a dark suited man walking through the hallway outside and Then passing through the doorway.

[Anthony Delaney]

Perfect.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Into Mary's room.

[Anthony Delaney]

Now this may be a question you don't necessarily know the answer to because it's hard to track these things. Was there between the last family that the previous Mary, where there was on Noria and Mary and your man? Was there any reconstructive work done between then and this one? We don't know.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I don't know.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay, fine.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, sorry.

[Anthony Delaney]

So no, because I assumed you wouldn't know. How could you? But what I mean is when does she think this particular dark suited man is coming from? What era is she seeing like a.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

It seems to be that it's kind of like looking. It's looking as though he is more or less of the era.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, that's the impression I'm getting.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. You know, like now we're always like small Victorian child, right? And like she's just like, that's a guy in a suit. Yes, that's a guy in a suit. So much so that she goes out to investigate. She's like, who's that guy walking through walls? Walking through walls. Who is in the house now? And who has gone into my mistress's bedchamber? Right? Like, so she freaks out. She grabs the housemaid, Molly Newton.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I love the 18th century. You guys get to know the names of everyone. I can't believe. And so they are like, where is that guy? They look around, they're not seeing anybody. They're not seeing anybody. Guys just disappeared. Right? And so they're like, well, I'm pretty freaked out and I don't love it. But like, what are you gonna do?

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[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

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[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

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epi and if Creon could help.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay, so I know Mary too. Mary Ricketts. I know she's heard a few slammy bangy door stuff.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And it's really loud.

[Anthony Delaney]

And it's really loud. Slapping, actually she calls it, doesn't she? Yeah. So that's that thing. So first of all, we're focused on the women mostly because it's Mary and then it's Molly. And who's the nurse?

[Creon Medication Announcer]

Her.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

The nurse. Her there. That's great. So it's Mary.

[Anthony Delaney]

It is Elizabeth, and then it's Molly and Elizabeth who are part of the servant staff. So I'm wondering, is there a gender thing here in the telling? And I'm wondering if there's a class thing here in the.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Oh, congratulations. Congratulations. Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, absolutely. So, yeah, Mary's the first to hear it. Right. But William's running out in the hallway with a big, bold man and then he's like, don't worry your head, little lady.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And then you will note that the escalation to the apparition phase, as we call it. We do, and we do. This is from a working class woman. Like a servant sees it.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. And a serving woman in particular. And now who's going on the lookout

[Anthony Delaney]

with another servant woman.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

And this is where the frenzy there was. There was a kind of a polite, honorable reaction from those in the upper class to this slight disturbance. Now we're into frenzy and we've lost control and it starts to unravel.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And this does pick up steam. Right. Because we have a new sighting a couple of months later. And this is by George Turner, who is the gardener's son.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So again, you know, one of the.

[Anthony Delaney]

One of the workers, the staff are seeing this. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And he says that he's crossing the great hall. He's going to bed.

[Anthony Delaney]

Why is he crossing?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay, because he's going up. He's going up to bed and he sees a man in a dark coat at the. The far end of the room. Okay.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, so another man. Well, sounds like the same man in another dark coat.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah. Now this is duly reported to boss Mary. Yep, yep. So we've got two sightings of this guy in a coat. And what do you think she has to say about all of this?

[Anthony Delaney]

I would imagine it is. Oh, worker, tittle tattle. Get back to your jobs. Cup onto yourselves. This is. Stop wasting my time.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

100%.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

This is like. Yeah, you poors would think that.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, you know how the pores are always telling ghost stories, Believing in silly things like, we must understand. Okay. There's not just the Protestant thing. Going on. It's the enlightenment girl. Science girl. So I read the book, actually. You are stupid if you think that you saw something. Like, you couldn't possibly. You have a disordered mind. And of course you have a disordered mind because you're poor. Yes.

[Creon Medication Announcer]

Yep.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. Not like me, Mary. Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

And don't for a second think about picking up a book, by the way.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Absolutely. I swear to God, if you educate yourself, I will beat you.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. So we're going to Fast forward. It's 1767. Rolls off the tongue.

[Anthony Delaney]

It does, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And they have another son. This is Edward. And in that summer.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

They have another sighting.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, I thought you were going to say another son. I was like, I'm down. So another sighting. Now who's seeing? So will be the third. Oh, and three, of course, three is a really important number in these haunting stories because it, you know, the Trinity and all that kind of thing.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

So who sees the third one?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

It's someone who's coming into the house. It's like a caller, okay. Sees a tall woman, this time in dark clothing, kind of like rushing past out of the house as he's going in. And he's like, who was that woman? When he gets into the house, and everyone's like, what woman? And he's like, that woman who just ran out. And everyone's like, I don't know who you're talking about, bro. So we've got, like, we're escalating. We've got now two ghosts in theory. We've got two dark figures who are running around. And this is a person who is, like, unconnected to Hinton Ampner. He's just kind of coming in. He's just a visitor, which adds credence.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right. It gives this idea of going, oh, we're not going mad in this house. We, you know, in the telling of this, we somebody who is impressed who has come in and they have experienced the same thing. And I would imagine the story would go. And they didn't even know about it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Exactly, exactly. And so that's why this kind of gets recorded, I think, even though we don't have the name associated with it, because they're like, you see?

[Anthony Delaney]

You see?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You know. And so now it's 1769. Mary and William have had a third child.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. This is a daughter. She's also called Mary because, again, five names. Five names. Okay.

[Anthony Delaney]

And then we've already had three Marys in the story.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And so now that William has saddled his wife with three children, he's like, well, I'm off to Jamaica. Goodbye. I'm gonna go and brutalize my fellow man. Thank you very much. Mary, of course, stays at Hinton Ampner because, you know, it would be unbecoming were she to clap eyes on all the human misery.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That funds her haunted house and her lavish lifesty. So here she is. She's got three kids. She's got eight members of the domestic staff.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. Looking after them. So that's nice. Is it more than two per.

[Anthony Delaney]

She's comfortable. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Love that. Love that. Okay, let's talk a little bit about these horrible people.

[Adam Grant]

Okay.

[Anthony Delaney]

So about the Ricketts.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

The Ricketts. Yeah. Okay, so William Henry Ricketts, as we say, he's from the Jamaican branch of the Ricketts family.

[Anthony Delaney]

I wonder if they're in any way related to Adam Ricketts. Do you know who that is? You didn't grow up in this country, and neither did I. But we still got Adam Rickett. Adam Rickett was a soap star in the 90s, I guess.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I don't know.

[Anthony Delaney]

And he was, for Manny, a gay. A gay awakening. And for many, a teenage girl or young girl, I would imagine, also some.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Also a gay awakening.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You can have gay awakenings, too.

[Anthony Delaney]

Not through Adam. Wicked, they can't. If you Google him later, you'll understand what I mean.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

All right. Okay.

[Anthony Delaney]

Hair. God love him. But anyway, that's a side point. I would imagine he's probably not related to Adam Rickett, but there you go. You can continue. Apologies.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Now, who they are related to is your man there. Captain William Ricketts. He's one of Cromwell's officers. Boo. We hate. We hate. But he basically settled into Jamaica after the English conquest in 1655.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Right. It's like, obviously he's gotta get out of here because it's getting a little hot up in the block for various members of the parliamentarian force. So he's like, well, I was being a jerk in England. Gonna go be a jerk in Jamaica? Hey, why not? So by the 18th century, they've got huge plantations, right? So Ricketts basically holds somewhere in the thousands of acres in Westmoreland. And William Henry is very expressly down in the records as a transatlantic slave owner. So he is involved in the triangle trade.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

He's, like, doing the worst of it. Right. Like, not a good guy. I couldn't think of a better dude to be haunted.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I hope that this happens. Right. So he's moving people between England and Jamaica. He's Doing the worst. Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

And he's now in Jamaica. Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You said he's gone.

[Anthony Delaney]

He's gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And he is kind of like, running this sugar plantation, right, that the rickets have had for ages. So he is making tons of money off of, like, you know, the sugar plantations in Jamaica. The. Oh, Jesus Christ. Like, it's. It's awful. So it's bad news. It's very, very bad. And he does come back to England here and there in order to knock his wife up. But he's always like, oh, I'm being called back to Jamaica from kind of like the 60s, 60s onwards. 17, 60s onward. Right. And so he's kind of going back and forth. He's, you know, involved in kind of, like, schemes to try to start plantations in Florida, these kind of things. Right. And this is like one of those Georgian things, right. Like, oh, you live as a gentleman in England, you have your big house, and then you go and you terrorize some people. And then, like, you go back and forth.

[Anthony Delaney]

We no longer need to be polite.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

In the same way, once we enter Jamaica.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, basically, when he gets married to Mary Jarvis, you know, she's the sister of the admiral. The admiral is named John Jarvis, so He's like the first viscount of St. Vincent.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right. So this is a status. It's establishing a dynasty that is underpinned by misery and exploitation. And then you have that polite distance back in England, which I think still a lot of people, when they're looking at the 18th century in England, really are still uncomfortable. To really stand face to face with the idea that the china teacups that are clattering that's. Oh, isn't it all very pretty and cozy? Or the sugar that's being dropped into the bowls or the decoration that's on the walls, there is again, this idea of this kind of plausible deniability of going enslaved peoples. Well, I don't know. Well, and there was this idea, of course, of our family, black and white, which was just propaganda to ensure that these people could. Our family, black and white is more of a 19th century idea, but it goes, we're taking care of these people. We. We're looking after them because we are. Again, it. It is disgusting. I was going to say it sounds disgusting, but is disgusting, because there's this idea that we're civilizing them. We're giving them a life that they couldn't have had if we had let them be in Africa. Now we have this thing. So it's the most despicable thing that humans can do to humans, and yet it's being carried out. What's even more insidious about it is the veneer of respectability back in England and just, you know, the swanning around in the dresses kind of a thing. And we really have to. Sorry, I'm getting on a bit of a pedestal here. But I do think it's important where it's like there is this thing about going, you know, oh, but it was only the elite. Well, it was also the people who were involved in transporting beef around, you know, as part of that thing, and how that was exploited through the transatlantic slave trade. It's also people who are involved in different forms of trade that are underpinned in different countries. But so, so many people, not just the elite. Certainly the elite and at the worst of it, but so much of what's happening in trade and commerce and the money pouring into England at this time. And there's a lot of it is happening because of this particular trade. So, you know, that's haunting in itself.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I mean, let's be so for real. The servants at Hinton Ampner, where's the money coming from that pays their salary?

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Fundamentally. Yes. Right. Okay. So that's the horrors in Jamaica. Back to the horrors in Hampshire.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right. So, okay, so this is the scene that we have there. And then back to the polite thing in Hampshire.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Okay. So basically, off goes William. And here's Mary alone. She's in bed one night, and she wakes up, and she hears very distinctly the sound of a woman's skirts kind of swishing around. It sounds like a woman in a silk dress is in her room. Okay, right. So she hears this. Right. Real auditory and very specific. And, you know, they would know at the time. There's like a lot of. For them, that is like, it's not just a curtain.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's not just the bed curtains, whatever. They know the difference between that. That's a really good point. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

In 1770, she then wakes up and she hears the sound of boots walking across the room. And she says about it, I plainly heard the footsteps of a man with a plodding step walking towards the foot of my bed. I thought the danger too near to ring my bell for assistance.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, yeah. So she was essentially frozen in her bed.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. And she's like, a man is in my room. He has come to kill me. Probably rightly. Girl come the revolution. So she's so frightened, she can't even, like, ask for any of the staff to come and help her. But to her, it is so real and so plain. She thinks someone has come to attack her.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right. So she is not necessarily. Well, it's not that she's not believing that it's a haunting. We know she dismissed the servants. But there's a danger that is present whether or not she thinks it's a ghost or a real person. And that's actually interesting because when we're listening or when you're describing these apparitions or these sounds, nobody's actually saying it was see through. Nobody's saying, oh, I could. You know, it was this. This otherworldly thing. They think they're people.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

They think they're real things that's happening.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

The major thing that happens is they're like, I am going to go look for this person. I've heard a person.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And there's no person forthcoming.

[Anthony Delaney]

Now we have a situation where Mary, you know, she is currently the head of the household because William's in Jamaica.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

She is scared. She feels vulnerable. What's she gonna do about it?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Well, at this point in time, because things keep amping up. It's like now we're hearing murmurings in the house. Other servants are hearing things. There's moaning, There are footsteps. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. It's getting worse. Eventually, you can hear a distinct woman's voice and two men's voices.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's really ramping up then.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yep. She calls her brother.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay, fair enough.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

She calls the Admiral. So here comes John Jarvis. He's an admiral in the Royal Navy. Sensible man. Yes, sensible man. No nonsense. Army man. And he is back from.

[Anthony Delaney]

Also, can I just say, so sorry to interrupt. But also, as a Navy man, superstitious.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, that is true. That is a good point.

[Anthony Delaney]

But both things exist.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So he's been down med. As one does.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

When one is an admiral. And he comes back. And he comes back, obviously by way of Hampshire, because, like, where else you're going to. And he's like, gonna go check in on my sister. And at first, like, Mary doesn't want to tell him.

[Anthony Delaney]

Sure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

What's been going on. Because it's embarrassing. Right. Like, I mean. Yeah. And like, listen, it's one thing if the servants think there's a ghost. It's another thing if she does. Right. And things are getting worse at night. And here's the thing, she ends up having to kind of confess because her health is in decline. She's so stressed out. She's so Scared about biology. This. It's like, you know, like, oh, she's got the. She's got nerves.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

100%. We love it. We love this For a Georgian queen, right? Okay. So her brother comes back in August and she's like, listen, let me fess up. And she's like, something needs to be done. And John is like, girl, we are looking into it, right? Like, oh, here's the thing about the enlightenment. There's gotta be an explanation for this. Measure this 100%, right? So he goes and he calls one of his good friends, Captain James Luttrell, and they're like, we're just going to stay up all night, girl. Classic ghost hunt.

[Anthony Delaney]

Absolutely. We see this in the 20th century.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

We do it now. We do it now. Like, we just. We're just going to stay up all night. Like, if they could have one of those, like, electro spectrometers, they would have done it. They would have done it. And they're up at night and they're like, yeah, there's footsteps walking across the lobby.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, so they hear it too.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. And Luttrell gives it the who goes there? Not the who goes there. Classic. And he feels something kind of like.

[Anthony Delaney]

Like pass by home.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. And so both men are like, okay, we heard all these noises, but they've got all the doors locked, okay? They go check them all. Totally secure, totally secure. Then at dawn, they hear the doors slamming and slapping that Mary refers to, right? So that morning, they're like, girl, this house is haunted.

[Anthony Delaney]

You are right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Listen, we got a ghost. It is. Is inhospitable. Inhospitable is what they say.

[Anthony Delaney]

Again, this language of politeness. So it's like everything has this veneer of perfectness, politeness, steadiness, control. And something is now out of control in this house.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And I love this, because that sort of idea of the inhospitable is still something that really underpins our idea of the haunted house now. So, for example, in the Shirley Jackson classic the Haunting of Hill House, she says that some houses are born bad

[Anthony Delaney]

and it's this unwanted guest, right?

[Adam Grant]

Inhospitable.

[Anthony Delaney]

Inhospitable.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I love it. I love it. So Mary's like, girl, I'm getting onto the landlord, right? But in the most 18th century way possible. Homeboy has got gout. All right.

[Anthony Delaney]

Of course.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Who?

[Anthony Delaney]

The landlord does.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

The landlord does.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, he's got the gout. And he's like, girl, I'm too gouty for this.

[Anthony Delaney]

I can't make it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So basically, I'm sending down my grandson. And they're basically like. We're kind of, like, too embarrassed to kind of talk about it. Right. Like, this is kind of weird. So here they come. And, like, John, meanwhile, keeping up the vigil every night. He's out there. He's looking around. And at one point in time, Mary gets woken up because she hears a gunshot be fired and, like, groaning. So she's like, who got shot? Like, who's been shot? Like, what is going on? And she's like, okay, that is it. Like, we're. We're done. Like, I can't be having the gunshots and the groaning and that kind of a thing. So John, her brother, is like, I'm off to Portsmouth, and he sends his lieutenant, who's a lieutenant of the Marines and one of the friends of the family to kind of, like, watch after her.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, it's like everybody's taking it very, very serious.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is a lot of man hours that's going into this. And I think you're right. I think it does indicate that this is now being taken very seriously. This is a real thing as far as they're concerned. Something. Something's happening. Whatever. Whatever they think it is, who knows? But something's going down.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And at this point in time, he's like, also, I'm writing to William in Jamaica about it. Man to man.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Man to man.

[Anthony Delaney]

We can solve this.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And he says. He writes and he says, to keep you longer in suspense would be painful. I therefore proceed to tell you Hinton House has been disturbed by such strange, unaccountable noises from the end of April to this day, with little or no intermission, that it is very unfit your family should continue any longer in it.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yikes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Further, after the most diligent search and serious reflection, any way I count. For Mr. Luttrell had then no doubt of the cause being beyond the reach of human understanding. So they're like. That's a word for.

[Anthony Delaney]

That is supernatural.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, exactly.

[Anthony Delaney]

Or paranormal.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah. So it's like. Like it's happening. It's out of the ordinary. We cannot explain this. Right. So apparently William agrees. It's too hot. Too hot in the house. We gotta get out of there. So in 1772, they leave. They abandon the house.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's been going on for years now.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, ages. They put up with it for ages. And it is one of these things that we will also see in kind of a classic haunted house case now, the amping up of events.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Everything's fine when you get there and it gets a few things that are off and then it gets worse and it gets worse and it gets worse.

[Anthony Delaney]

Unsustainable. And you can't stay there. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So basically they take off and Hinton Ampner becomes known as like incredibly, incredibly haunted. Right. And basically the Ricketts, they just settle elsewhere in Hampshire. Can't leave Hampshire, obviously. Got to be able to have quick access to Jamaica.

[Anthony Delaney]

Still need a good address.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And eventually in 1793, the house is demolished.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Cuz no one will live in it. And a new house gets rebuilt elsewhere on the site.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And here's the thing though. They basically turn that area into like an orchard. Right. So that's like a garden where the old house was. So they're like, look, it's a good estate. It's just that like no one is ever going to rent this house out again. It's simply too haunted famous. So yeah, whatever. That's the story. Everybody knows about it.

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[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Here's the explanations that people come up with kind of like, so basically, eventually people say, okay, well, maybe the Stalwell family, you know, that was the first law. Yeah. You know, Mariana and Honoria, they think that basically the two major apparitions are Lord Stalwell and Honoria. Right. Like, that's who you're seeing, you know, the adulterers, you know, the sister shagger. Yeah, yeah, Sister shagger and the shagged sister.

[Anthony Delaney]

If we're gonna be saying who ghosts are, it might as well be, I suppose. Yeah, sure.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And now they say that in 1793, after the rickets had left, while the house is kind of like getting torn apart, construction workers claim they find a tiny human skull in a box under the floorboards.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, this missing baby. Forgot about that.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, no one heard any baby. But, like, I don't know, maybe the guilt is keeping the ghosts walking. I don't know.

[Anthony Delaney]

Did hear any baby, that's true. But there was a potential missing baby from. Was it Mary or Anoria?

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. So. And that's what the locals are saying. Word on the street is that's the dead baby. Okay, okay. By the 19th century, because people love this.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's persisting.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, absolutely. They're saying that, okay, this is, like, all happening because of these aristocratic people shagging about. And, like, you know, this is kind

[Anthony Delaney]

of like it becomes a moral compass to go. If you live a dissipated life, you will be damned to purgatory, or, okay, not purgatory, because it's, you know, it's Anglican, but you will be damned to roam the earth in a very actually Wuthering Heights type thing where you will not ascend to heaven, you will not even go to hell. You'll just. If you're living so dissolutely, you'll wander the. The grounds.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And this is also tied up with the fact that by now, in the 19th century, English people decided to stop having slavery, which is why they invented it in the first place, was, you know, just so that they could abolish it.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Congratulations, everyone. So it's like, oh, well, you know how they were. They're disgusting stick people. So the story is specifically told with this, like, moral lens.

[Anthony Delaney]

So it does. So that idea of the freedom of enslaved people comes into it in the 19th century. It's very much there. Right. I thought you were going to say that, but I thought you were maybe going to say it in the 20th century, that that's what it takes on. But even in the 19th century, to their credit.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

To their credit, they're like, yeah, that seems bad. Seems like that would be bad and that.

[Anthony Delaney]

And. And even then, they're saying, right. The. Everything that was happening on the plantation in Jamaica was somehow unsettling the house. And because it was fueling this, it was somehow bringing about this haunting.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

They're like, this is a sick bunch of people who are doing terrible things, and that's why hauntings happen.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's interesting that it's that early.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. I mean, like, shout out to 19th century people. You're not always that bad.

[Anthony Delaney]

Not always.

[Bleacher Report Announcer]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Most. Okay. Like, then the other explanation are these some Londoners who moved into a big old creaky house in the winter and got freaked out.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

We can't rule it out.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a possibility. Right. It's. Yeah, It's. It's going, oh, we're suddenly in the middle of nowhere and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I see it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And you know, as you say, by the time we get some other people in to have a look at it, who do we get in Saylor? Sailors.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Sailors are prone to beliefs.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. I do like the idea that he reports on what they've undertaken. And it does sound all very logical and very methodical and all that kind of thing, you know, very enlightened in quote marks. But it is. Yeah, yeah. It's. It's trying to measure the haunting. And again, that's what people have done for the last 250 years, where it's like, where's that noise coming from? What are they saying? Let's record it. Let's. Because in so doing, we can collect the data and we can control it somehow or understand it somehow. So I see what they're doing there. So those are three main theories as to what's going on. Do you have a. Are you drawn to one of them in particular? I'm trying to think if I am.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

I mean, I think that, like, my theory on ghosts is, like, I don't know, like, what a ghost is, but I know that it is a phenomena that people claim to experience.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And that's real.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

A phenomena that people are experiencing is happening. And it might be happening in this case because. Yeah, these are bad people doing terrible things. Right. And so, like, maybe it's nicer to kind of, like, bog it off on, like, some adulterers. Like, I'm. I mean, yeah. Like, dead baby under the floorboards. We don't love that. But I'm going to tell you, I just don't think that, like, shagging your sister's husband is as bad as enslaving people. I'm crazy like that. Call me crazy.

[Anthony Delaney]

And they wouldn't have thought that either, but they also wouldn't have had. If we were to go about this kind of guilt complex thing that's invoking this haunting. I just don't think it stacks up. It stacks up for us as a modern. That absolutely makes sense for us. But for them, they are not guilty about this.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

No, they don't care. Like, they don't care at all.

[Anthony Delaney]

So you can't give them that kind of credit. They're. They're not thinking. Some people are. I think it's really important to say

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

that there is some people.

[Anthony Delaney]

In the late 18th century, there is a movement to abolish the transatlantic slave trade. Absolutely. And enslavement generally. But the people who are doing it and benefiting from it are. Are not.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. They're like, actually, I don't see a problem with this at all.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

That's why they keep doing it. Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So we get this cool story, though, because this was, like, big news at the time. Like, the Royal. Yeah. The royals were interested in it. They were corresponding with Admiral John about this because they were like, girl, what is going on with that ghost? Because people loved it. Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And this becomes more public knowledge in the 19th century. It's published in 1872 as A Hampshire ghost story in the Gentleman's magazine.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So it's like. So again. Right. It's interesting because now it's kind of circulating because now. Now it's the 19th century, and everybody

[Anthony Delaney]

loves ghosts, and it's 100 years later. So you have this. There's always this thing with ghosts. Yes. But even older ghosts is. Is even more compelling in some ways. Like, we see it, you know, when we talk about, like, the 1960s and 70s when so many of those haunted house things come out. We are really interested in them now. More so. I'm not aware of any contemporary haunting that's happening right now, although I'm sure some people would claim that there are. But if you talk to me about the Battersea Poltergeist, I know about that. But that's going back quite a bit. So there' something that we like to cast back on these hauntings, and that really draws us in for some reason.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. I think that there is this veneer of reality, that historicity, ghost stories. So it's like, within that, you can kind of talk about it. You know, it's that old joke. It's like, it's Always a Victorian child. It's never a ghost from 2008 screaming, It's Brittney bitch.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Which it should be.

[Anthony Delaney]

And it is Brittney bitch.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You know what? That's so true. And I've always said that. So we then have this particular ghost story kind of pass into the public consciousness, and it sort of becomes the template.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, I can see that.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

You know, the. The manor house in the countryside. We think that this helps to inspire Henry James's the Turn of the Screw.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, I can see it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Which was written in 1898.

[Anthony Delaney]

The sounds, the knocks.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Listen to me. Have you seen the 1960s black and white ghost movie version of it? The Innocents?

[Anthony Delaney]

No.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Freak yourself out, girl.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, go and see it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Oh, stop everything that you're doing. Watch the Innocents.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, I need to continue presenting this PODC podcast for another few minutes, but

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

after that, let's turn it off. Come back anyway. Okay, so this is interesting, though, right? Because this is a ghost story, that this is not happening in the 19th century spiritualism thing. Like, no one is like, oh, I'm gonna go get my Ouija board. We're not, like, gonna try to communicate with the ghosts, but they are trying to make some sense of it. Right. They're ghost hunting, but they're not attempting communication with the dead.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

So it's interesting because it is. There is a sense of modernity to it, but it's happening.

[Anthony Delaney]

You see the development in what they were doing and now what we're doing in this age of. Of spiritualism. And I also think it feeds into this thing of going. Things with histories have more legitimacy. Right. And here, this is at a time when you say 1870s, it becomes really popular. This is when the spiritualism thing is. Is in full swing, and. And people are doubtful, but other people are really convinced. So here's the history of this that is now a hundred years old. So actually, you think this is new? No. Our ancestors have been talking about these otherworldly things coming in and where the history of this is important. You know, first of all, thank you for sharing. Just a really good story. That's number one. But number two, it's useful for us as historians because it shows that blueprint of so many of the identifiable features that we now understand as a haunted house mystery. And even, like, think about it. In the 19th century, certainly there was this idea that definitely big houses lend themselves to it more. So because they come with ancestral lineage, they have. You're able to add in this whole thing of what's going on. How did the money funnel in as well? That brings that dark element in there. So the fact that our 19th century ghost story is actually an 18th century ghost story shows how important it is to track the history. Well, I mean, you're writing a bloody book on it.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Exactly. And you know, listen, because of the wealth involved, we get to have everybody's names. There's a whole staff of people that we have written down. Your average house in the 18th century, we don't know who lived there. I mean, like, we might be able to have deeds with who owns it, but we don't know.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

What, like what that means. Yeah. So it's kind of like they're. People are in and out, they're up and down. This is something where we can point and say, aha. It was these guys. Right. Which is something that people really enjoy doing. Like, when they're telling the ghost story, they want name names and they want a why. Right. And so this is one of the big things this story is introducing. Even though in theory, we're away from this purgatorial ghost story. You know, the. The ghosts are here because they're suffering for these reasons. We still have ghosts who are here who are suffering for these reasons. Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

And this is going to be like the gothic blueprint.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Yes. For the rest of time.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, I think a ghost story is the perfect way to finish our month together. Eleanor.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Oh, I'm gonna miss you, Anthony.

[Anthony Delaney]

I know. We've fallen into our little pattern of our little stories every week. Thank you for keeping me company over the last few weeks.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

It's been great. You know what? It's been such a pleasure. I know that I can never take Maddie's place, but I mean, I can for a month, and it turns out

[Anthony Delaney]

you did for a little bit.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

But we can't wait to have her back.

[Anthony Delaney]

I will let you do the sign off then, so you can say goodbye to our After Dark listeners, who, of course, will be coming over to hear you again on Gone Medieval. And I love when you appear. Anyway, so I will say goodbye now, but I'll leave Eleanor to say the real goodbye.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Well, thank you so much for listening for After Dark and for keeping me company. And, you know, I know I'm not Maddie, but I'm trying my best here, obviously. Obviously. Come check out the After Dark on YouTube. Yes, you can see my great earrings.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, they are great. And also, you're very Princess Diana address.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Thank you. Thank you. So many people have said that I'm like a modern day Princess Diana. It's true. You can also please, if you haven't already, leave After Dark, a five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts. And you know, why not drop one for Gone medieval?

[Anthony Delaney]

Might as well. Well, you're at us.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Come on. And now you can absolutely do that wherever podcasts are listened to. And basically the reason we want you to do that is it helps other people find the podcasts and come gossip about about ghosts with us. If you want to come find me on social media, you can find me at Dr. Eleanor Yanaga on Instagram. And Antony, where can the good people find you?

[Anthony Delaney]

It's Anthony Delaney History.

[Dr. Eleanor Yanaga]

Well, listen, we also want to hear your ideas for future shows. So if you have any, why not drop us a line atafterdarkhistory hit dot com. Or if you've got any medieval ideas, hit me up at gotten [e-mail] Otherwise, thank you so much for hosting me and I'll see you soon.

[Adam Grant]

Hey, this is Adam Grant, host of ted's podcast Rethinking with Adam Grant. Have you heard of Bill? It's the intelligent finance platform that uses AI to help you avoid costly errors and optimize cash flow. In fact, Bill reports that over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust them to manage, move and maximize money proven by over a trillion dollars in secure transactions. Eliminate the friction and start scaling with the proven choice. Visit bill.com proven to talk with an expert about automating your business finances and get a $250 gift card as a thank you. That's bill.com proven terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.

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