England's Darkest Folklore

Summary

After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal Episode Summary: England's Darkest Folklore Release Date: April 28, 2025

Hosts: Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling
Podcast by: History Hit

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Introduction

In this episode of After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal, hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling delve into the dark side of English folklore, exploring eerie legends and sinister tales that have shaped the cultural landscape of England. Skipping through personal anecdotes and historical narratives, the duo unravels the mysteries behind some of England’s most haunting folklore entities.

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Exploring the Town of Leek

Maddy begins by painting a vivid picture of her hometown, Leek, a market town in Staffordshire with rich historical undertones and lingering myths.

"There's a pub haunted by a headless woman, quietened in death by a group of townsmen whose secrets she sold to the highest bidder."
— Maddy Pelling [03:52]

Leek, characterized by its 19th-century architecture and antique shops, serves as the perfect backdrop for discussing local legends, including hidden tunnels and historical residences linked to figures like William Morris and Bonnie Prince Charles Edward Stuart.

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The Legend of Jenny Greenteeth

The conversation shifts to one of the most compelling figures in English folklore: Jenny Greenteeth. Described as a fearsome freshwater spirit, she is known to lurk in stagnant waters, dragging unsuspecting victims beneath the surface.

"She will drag you down and drown you. And she's used as a warning, particularly for children."
— Maddy Pelling [08:31]

Jenny Greenteeth is depicted as a grotesque mermaid-like creature with green teeth, serving as a cautionary tale against venturing into perilous waters. Maddy references Alan Lee’s illustration, likening her appearance to “Gollum in drag,” emphasizing her eerie and menacing presence.

"This is Gollum in drag, essentially."
— Anthony Delaney [09:37]

The discussion touches upon the origins of her name and the Victorian anxieties surrounding cleanliness and disease, suggesting that Jenny Greenteeth embodies societal fears of the time.

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The Phenomenon of Black Dogs in English Folklore

Anthony introduces another dark entity from English lore: the Black Dog, specifically Guy Dartish. These spectral hounds are a recurring motif in British folklore, often serving as omens of doom or protectors, depending on the region.

"We have Guy Trash, a lion-like creature with long hair and a huge head."
— Maddy Pelling [18:08]

The hosts explore various iterations of the Black Dog myth, including:

• Black Shuck: Originating from East Anglia, this giant black dog with burning red eyes has been historically documented as early as 1577. It is infamous for attacking churchgoers and leaving claw marks in churches.

  "It's a really historic story... even recorded in 1577."
  — Maddy Pelling [20:19]

• Barghest: Particularly prevalent in Yorkshire, the Barghest is depicted as a large, spectral hound that haunts the Yorkshire Dales and Moors, often seen by travelers as a portent of death or disaster.

  "Barghest... town ghost."
  — Maddy Pelling [27:34]

The conversation delves into the symbolic meanings of these creatures, their variations across regions, and their impact on local folklore and literature.

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Influence of the Brontes

Anthony and Maddy discuss the significant influence of the Brontë siblings, particularly Branwell Brontë, on the perpetuation and evolution of the Black Dog folklore.

"Branwell's early childhood writings... we meet her in Jane Eyre."
— Anthony Delaney [28:46]

They highlight how Branwell's stories introduced entities like Guy Trash into literary works, seamlessly blending folklore with fiction. The episode references Charlotte Brontë's "Jane Eyre", where the protagonist, Jane, encounters what she believes to be the Barghest, only to realize it is Mr. Rochester's benign dog, Pilot.

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Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

Adding a personal touch, Maddy recounts a chilling experience in Haworth, the Brontës' hometown, where she and Anthony encountered a mysterious creature emerging from the mist.

"We saw this creature come out of the mist... it was like if a dog and a fox had combined."
— Maddy Pelling [30:27]

Anthony shares his childhood memories, illustrating how deeply folklore can embed itself into personal narratives and perceptions of the natural landscape.

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Modern Resurgence of Folklore

The hosts transition to discussing the resurgence of interest in folklore across the British Isles, particularly in the post-COVID era. They feature insights from Ben Edge, a celebrated artist dedicated to documenting and celebrating folk traditions.

"People started to really fall in love all over again with where they live... it gives you a sense of national identity that you can be proud of."
— Ben Edge [34:58]

Ben explains how modern society’s return to local environments has rekindled appreciation for historical and cultural folklore, fostering a renewed sense of community and heritage.

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Final Narratives: The Cornish Mermaid

Maddy concludes the episode with a retelling of a Cornish mermaid legend, diverging from the familiar, enchanting portrayals to present a more sinister and tragic narrative.

"In this story, mermaids are really scary. They are not the pretty, cutesy, flouncy Disney version. They are deadly."
— Maddy Pelling [42:25]

The tale of Selina, a young woman transformed into a mermaid, underscores the perilous relationship between humans and mythical sea creatures, reflecting the harsh realities of Cornwall’s treacherous coastline.

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Conclusion

Anthony and Maddy wrap up the episode by emphasizing the enduring nature of folklore and its ability to adapt and resonate across generations. They encourage listeners to explore their local myths and appreciate the rich tapestry of stories that define England’s cultural heritage.

"There's something about telling stories that plug you into this feeling that you're part of a lineage of something much bigger than yourself."
— Ben Edge [34:58]

The episode concludes with thanks to the listeners, a nod to ongoing folklore explorations, and an invitation to engage with the podcast’s content.

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Notable Quotes

• "She will drag you down and drown you. And she's used as a warning, particularly for children." — Maddy Pelling [08:31]
• "This is Gollum in drag, essentially." — Anthony Delaney [09:37]
• "Jenny Greenteeth... used as a warning, particularly for children." — Maddy Pelling [12:32]
• "Barghest... town ghost." — Maddy Pelling [27:34]
• "In this story, mermaids are really scary. They are not the pretty, cutesy, flouncy Disney version. They are deadly." — Maddy Pelling [42:25]

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Key Takeaways

• Jenny Greenteeth and the Black Dog legends like Black Shuck and Barghest are integral to England’s dark folklore, serving as cultural warnings and embodying societal fears.
• The Brontë siblings, especially Branwell, played a pivotal role in immortalizing these myths within English literature.
• Personal experiences and local tales continue to keep folklore alive, adapting to contemporary contexts and fostering a renewed appreciation for cultural heritage.
• Modern interest in folklore reflects a deeper connection to local environments and a desire to preserve and celebrate unique historical narratives.

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For more explorations into the eerie and enigmatic corners of history, subscribe to After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal on History Hit and immerse yourself in the shadows of the past.

Transcript

[Anthony Delaney]

Hi, we're your hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling. And if you would like After Dark Myths, Misdeeds and the Paranormal ad free and get early access, Sign up to.

[Maddy Pelling]

History Hit With a History Hit subscription. You can also watch hundreds of hours of original documentaries with top history presenters and enjoy a new release every week.

[Anthony Delaney]

Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe.

[Sponsor]

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[Anthony Delaney]

Hello and welcome to After Dark Now Today, because we've been talking about folklore over the last month, we are talking about the dark side of English folklore. And to begin, I'm not sure I'm paid enough for this, but we're going to start with a story from Maddie's childhood.

[Maddy Pelling]

Picture this we're standing on the hillside outside the Staffordshire town where I'M from. It's a pretty enough place, though unassuming, as Jane Austen said, admittedly, about another spot altogether. It's a place of little consequence, except to those fortunate enough to have grown up there today. You describe it as a market town. Its architecture is mostly 19th century. A ring of imposing, though strangely beautiful.

[Sponsor]

Silk mills stands sent century around its.

[Maddy Pelling]

Centre, flanked by rows of terraced houses. There's history here, muddled over the years, with a little rumour and myth making too. There's the church on the hill, supposedly sitting on miles of hidden tunnels, the purpose of which remains something of a mystery. There's the house in which the artist William Morris briefly lived. And a few doors down, another believed to have given respite to the Bonnie Prince Charles Edward Stuart, during his march.

[Sponsor]

South from Scotland in the 1745 Jacobite rising.

[Maddy Pelling]

Then there's a pub haunted by a headless woman, quietened in death by a group of townsmen whose secrets she sold.

[Sponsor]

To the highest bidder.

[Maddy Pelling]

Then there's Petit France, a small area of streets transformed in the Napoleonic wars to house French prisoners. Like any small town up and down the British Isles, its stories endure, shape shifting over time, handed down with fact and flourish alike. But from up here on the hill.

[Sponsor]

Though, it all seems rather tame.

[Maddy Pelling]

Up here, on the wild moors that mark the convergence of three counties Staffordshire, Cheshire and Derbyshire, it is bleak up here.

[Sponsor]

There are jagged rocks of the roaches.

[Maddy Pelling]

And steep, malignant gorges. There's a vast army training area and everywhere, endless bracken and gauze growing in tangled knots and ready to snatch at.

[Sponsor]

The heels of the unwary traveler. In the distance, there's Lud's Church, a.

[Maddy Pelling]

Cave system believed by many to be.

[Sponsor]

The mythical chapel from the 14th century story of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. But that's not why we're here.

[Maddy Pelling]

We walk now, heads bowed against the.

[Sponsor]

Wind, ascending, scrambling, climbing to the tip of a peak. It's not the view that has called us. Instead, up here on the roof of the world, where the cloud has descended to meet us, is a pool. It looks out of place, oddly still. Its water's no doubt deep. Livestock refuse to drink from it, even though the nearest stream is far away down the valley. As a child, I remember being warned about this place. Do not come here and never swim. The stories are enough to make even the boldest adventurer hesitate. You see, there's something in there. Something that lurks just beneath that glassy, unmoving surface.

[Anthony Delaney]

Hello, and welcome to After Dark.

[Maddy Pelling]

My name is Anthony and I'M Maddie.

[Anthony Delaney]

And as I explained, we have been talking about folklore and the impact of folklore and how it impacts history and how history impacts folklore. But today we're looking specifically at the dark side of English folklore. We've already looked at Scottish, Welsh and Irish folklore, and today it's the turn of England. So we are going to cover three stories. We're going to take you into misty peaks, down dark roads, and into the rolling waves of the ocean shore. But let's start by asking Maddie if this town that she has so eloquently described has a Nando's. Like, it sounds like a magical little fairy place.

[Maddy Pelling]

It absolutely does not have a Nando's.

[Anthony Delaney]

I don't really like Nando's, but I'm just.

[Maddy Pelling]

I'm just trying to build up a.

[Anthony Delaney]

More contemporary thingy of us.

[Maddy Pelling]

It's famous for its antiques market. There are antique shops everywhere. Its independent shops.

[Anthony Delaney]

Does it have a Gale's?

[Maddy Pelling]

What's a gales?

[Anthony Delaney]

Stop. Okay, now, where did you hang out as a teenager? Where were the, like, hangout spots?

[Maddy Pelling]

The park probably was the most exciting. There was not a lot going on. People will know the edge of this town from the 1995 Pride and Prejudice, which is why I put a Jane Austen quote at the beginning. There is a moment when Lizzie goes to Derbyshire and she stands on this rocky outcrop overlooking the countryside. And it is not Derbyshire, it is Staffordshire. And those are the roaches, which are a set of jagged rocks just outside the town by the French prisoners who were housed there in the Napoleonic War.

[Anthony Delaney]

Is this the town where you grew up?

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, where I grew up.

[Anthony Delaney]

What's it called?

[Maddy Pelling]

Leek.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, yes, you said that before.

[Maddy Pelling]

Leek the vegetable.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay, right. Well, there we go. Is it big or small?

[Maddy Pelling]

Smallish.

[Anthony Delaney]

Smallish, yeah. Okay, right. Jenny Greenteeth.

[Maddy Pelling]

We've established that.

[Anthony Delaney]

Tell me about her. So I've never heard of her, by the way.

[Maddy Pelling]

So this is a myth that I grew up with. And if you grew up in Lancashire, Derbyshire, Staffordshire, anywhere sort of North Midlands going up in England, you probably have heard of her. She is. Well, she is described by friend of the pod, Ronald Hutton professor, as one of those homicidal spirits. She is someone who lurks in particularly stagnant water. She hides out in pools like the one that I described, which.

[Anthony Delaney]

Don't we all hide out in pools?

[Maddy Pelling]

Wow. Okay. I thought this was gonna be a therapy session about my childhood. Turns out it's Anthony confessing to something lurking in pool. So, yes, she is. She's kind of a freshwater fairy mermaid, essentially, but not of the pretty kind. She's quite fearsome looking. And the idea of her is that she is lurking just beneath the surface. And if you go into any water that is still or that has kind of scum or weeds on top, that's kind of where she lives, and she will drag you down and drown you. And she's used as a warning, particularly for children, actually. And it makes total sense, right? Like, don't go into that stagnant, disgusting water. You might drown. I have an image of her which I'd like you to describe. This is from. Oh, God, look at her 1970s illustrated book called Fairies by Alan Lee. And I'm gonna tell you a bit more about Alan Lee in a second, but describe it first.

[Anthony Delaney]

So this is Gollum in drag, essentially.

[Maddy Pelling]

Gollum in drag.

[Anthony Delaney]

And by drag I mean in a wig. Although it's probably her natural hair. I shouldn't be so disparaging.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, she's half bald in this picture.

[Anthony Delaney]

She is. It's receding, bless her, but she is, yeah, just about. Think Gollum. That's the easiest way to kind of describe it. Now, the kind of more interesting thing is in the top right hand corner of this image, we have the feet of a child and she's obviously coming out of the water to. To grab that child. And all around is this kind of stagnant murk that you're talking about, Maddie. And then on the. The kind of the. The grassy part, we have twigs and branches and the roots of trees. So it is quite a. It's quite an earthy image. In fact, the thing is essentially all green, so it's very earthy, it's very swampy, and it's very like of the. Of the depths kind of. So it is swampy, isn't she?

[Maddy Pelling]

It's interesting that you compare her to Gollum because Alan Lee is famously an artist that illustrated the Lord of the Rings and other Tolkien works. Oh, I didn't know this. He had, I believe, a lot of influence then on the films. So if you look at his illustrations for Lord of the Rings, you can almost see the films and they took such kind of inspiration from that. So, yeah, it's kind of interesting to me that she looks like Gollum. She is thought to be quite ancient, and there are theories that she comes maybe from broader ideas of sort of British nature goddesses, that she's associated with places, particularly water, that might have been considered portals to another world, that she might even be associated with human sacrifice. Now I will say that Jenny Greenteeth herself only starts to get written down in the 19th century.

[Anthony Delaney]

I was going to say Jenny is a 19th century name. For me, that's where that's coming from.

[Maddy Pelling]

And the interesting thing is that in those 19th century accounts, she's described as being in these stagnant ponds, but also in canals. And I think that's so interesting when you think about the north of England in the 19th century industrialisation and these canals springing up, you know, where I'm from in Staffordshire, just a little bit south of Leek, is Stoke on Trent, and that is still today, absolutely riddled with these canals that would have been used to take the pottery, you know, from the famous potteries there. And you get the same across Manchester.

[Anthony Delaney]

And they probably have her Nando's.

[Maddy Pelling]

They probably do in Stoke.

[Anthony Delaney]

And Jenny Greenteeth, but come here. Okay, so this is really basic, but I'm intrigued by it. We have Jenny, female name, young girl name, almost like something. There's an innocence to the name Jenny. I'm saying these things. I don't know anything about this, but it's just my reaction to it then. Green teeth is so bizarre a choice. It's monstrous. But it also kind of is in tension with the name Jenny. Like, do we know where this name comes from or is it just literally a 19th century kind of invention?

[Maddy Pelling]

I don't think we do. The other kind of mutation of her, if you like, comes with parents warning not only about, you know, don't go and swim in this pond, but also brush your teeth. Children, stop. Yeah, so there's something there. And again, I'm thinking about the 19th century kind of disease, ideas of Victorian cleanliness. If actually she comes out in those anxieties as well. It's quite interesting. But, yeah, I think her name, she's sort of quite fairy, like Jenny sounds. Yeah. Innocent, cute. But then green teeth. Yeah, sounds frightening and sharp and rotten.

[Sponsor]

This podcast is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics presenting on Swift Horses starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Calle. Muriel and her husband Lee are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War. But their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card sheet he's fallen for. Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own. Gambling on racehorses. And exploring a love she never dreamed possible on Swift Horses is now playing only in theaters. Get Tickets [e-mail] if your job at.

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[Anthony Delaney]

I think one of the most striking things about your opening narrative was when you were talking about kind of being above the town and you're talking about like the place and the landscape and you're looking down and there's which what I now know are called the roaches. Didn't know that before. And then you have the lake and you have these geographical settings and we've talked about this in the other episodes on Folklore about how These settings are often the kind of birthplace of these tales because we're trying to fill that landscape almost. And Jenny obviously seems to be one of the people that or one of the entities that is filling that landscape. But that's only one of the places that you mentioned there, there was quite a collection. So let's take us to another part of this folklorish landscape with a character I'm a little more familiar with. And this is because of our shared love of the Brontes. And we're talking about a black dog called Guy Trash. Maddie, tell me a little bit more about him.

[Sponsor]

While walking alone one evening, Jane is climbing over a stile when she hears a sound. A rude noise broke on these fine ripplings and whisperings at once so far away and so clear.

[Maddy Pelling]

A positive tramp, tramp. A metallic clatter.

[Sponsor]

A horse was coming.

[Maddy Pelling]

And as I watched for it to.

[Sponsor]

Appear through the dusk, I remembered certain.

[Maddy Pelling]

Of Bessie's tales, wherein figured a north.

[Sponsor]

Of England spirit called a gy Trash, which in the form of a horse, mule or large dog, haunted solitary ways and sometimes came upon belated travellers. As this horse was now coming upon me, it was very near but not yet in sight when in addition to the tramp, tramp, I heard a rush under the hedge. And close down by the hazel stems.

[Maddy Pelling]

Glided a great dog whose black and.

[Sponsor]

White color made him a distinct object against the trees. It was exactly one form of Bessie's Gytrash, a lion like creature with long hair and a huge head.

[Maddy Pelling]

It passed me, however, quietly enough, not.

[Sponsor]

Staying to look up, with strange preter canine eyes in my face, as I half expected it would. The horse followed a tall steed and on its back a rider.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, I am transported. I love it. We both love the Brontes so much.

[Maddy Pelling]

I actually can't tell you how much I love Jane Eyre like I. I love, I love, I love, I love Jane Eyre. Have you ever been to Haddon hall where like every adaptation is filmed?

[Anthony Delaney]

No.

[Maddy Pelling]

Me neither. And I'm desperate to go. I'm desperate to go.

[Anthony Delaney]

No. Well, neither have I. I have nothing to say.

[Maddy Pelling]

If you're listening, Haddon hall, we would.

[Anthony Delaney]

Love have us in.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, please do. Is this a folkloric monster of which you have heard?

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, the term Guy trash specifically. I mean, I have read Jane Eyre. I don't remember that word's specifically, but this kind of black dog thing. Yes, in the English landscape specifically. I'm aware that it has other iterations before this Yorkshire iteration. And we'll talk about the Yorkshire Landscape as well, because I think it is so evocative in Bronte's writing. But talk me through some of those other iterations before Guy Crash.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yes. So there are lots of different versions of a black dog that appears in the landscape. Now, some of them are friendly, they're protective, they're a good thing to see, depending on where you are in the country, interestingly, others are a portent of really bad, violent, horrific things to come. So it sort of depends and I think you can kind of, you know, choose your player to a certain extent. Guy Trash is one name for this creature, but it is also known as the Bar Guest. In Yorkshire in particular, it's called that Padfoot.

[Sponsor]

Any Harry Potter fans out there?

[Maddy Pelling]

And then there's the Black Shuck, which.

[Anthony Delaney]

Is which I've heard of that.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. So in East Anglia, this is a really historic story. We have this tale which is recorded in 1577. So there is actually historical documentation of this story of a village in Suffolk where there's a huge storm and a big black dog with these red burning coal like eyes bursts into a church. It attacks some people who were just having a quiet time praying. It then runs over the wall of the churchyard, goes to another village, another church miles away, almost appearing at the same time. So it's kind of, you know, it's moving through the landscape in this supernatural way. And in the second church, it claws the door of the church. And today you can go and see these deeply carved claw like marks into the church. And they have been there for centuries. And so, you know, the local story is that these are caused by this big black dog. And you can go to the Black Shuck festival today. They have, it's amazing, I've only ever seen it online, but they have someone kind of puppeteering this giant black dog and it's, you know, there's all these different performances and storytelling things like a parade or just there's all kinds of events. And I mean, again, if you want to sponsor us, we will happily come.

[Anthony Delaney]

Maddy's looking for a trip out of this podcast. She's like, I'm off. Put me on a train.

[Maddy Pelling]

This is making me want to travel, talking about these different landscapes. So, yes, there are loads of different versions. And the earliest recorded example of a phantom dog comes in a Chronicle from 1154. And this is a story of a pack of hunters and hounds that are sort of. They're described as black and big eyed and loathsome, but it's in the sort of later medieval period onwards when you get this one singular dog appearing to people. It often appears on the road, to travellers.

[Anthony Delaney]

And there's that warning of whatever, good, bad or indifferent.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, well, yeah. And, you know, you think about Jenny Greenteeth as potentially.

[Anthony Delaney]

You often think about Jenny Greente all the time.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, I certainly did growing up. You know, we knew not to go into that pool. And that is kind of a warning about the landscape, about water. This feels like you've got to think back to. I mean, we're talking about a huge span of history, certainly from the medieval times to the 19th century, when Charlotte Bronte's writing, that travel in that big time period was dangerous, that it was slow, that you would certainly in the 19th century taking a carriage. There was dangers in terms of robberies, in terms, you know, all kinds of threats.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's giving wilderness.

[Maddy Pelling]

It is giving wilderness.

[Anthony Delaney]

You're going through this road, there's probably a bit of a dirt road. You don't know what's in the dark, looming hills either side of you. It's a warning of what nature holds, potentially.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And the versions that we get in the north, where this dog is called Guy Trash or the Barghest, often come in these landscapes in Lancashire, in Yorkshire, where there are big expanses of. You know, think about the Yorkshire Dales, the Yorkshire Moors, or down where the Brontes were around Haworth. You know that there are these big stretches of open wilderness and the dog for some is this threatening thing in this big open landscape, but for others, it's almost like a companion that's going to lead you where you're going. And when we meet her in Jane Eyre, of course she thinks she's seeing the Guy Trash, the bar guest, but she's actually seeing Mr. Rochester's dog, Pilot, who also your dog. Yeah. I've said many times before on this podcast that my dog is named after Mr. Rochester's barghesty dog, Pilot. Is he terrifying? No, Pilot, no. He's an old golden retriever.

[Anthony Delaney]

He's so sweet.

[Maddy Pelling]

Absolutely no threat. It will say, my other dog is a big, black, scary dog.

[Anthony Delaney]

Ah, she's not scary, she's just enthusiastic.

[Maddy Pelling]

Enthusiastic. But no, she's scary. And she's put that out there.

[Anthony Delaney]

She's a scary dog. I mean, don't, don't.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yes, but yes, she is named after a servant in Wuthering Heights.

[Anthony Delaney]

So she'll hump you to death.

[Maddy Pelling]

She will. Nelly. She is made of muscle and spring and she will leave the ground and levitate at head height before you realize that you're about to be like, slammed in the face.

[Anthony Delaney]

Can I ask two questions?

[Maddy Pelling]

Is it about my excellent career as a dog trainer?

[Anthony Delaney]

It is. A, yes and B, no. I want to know one thing. No, I want to know two things. One, does the dog always look the same? Because there's this description of being black and white sometimes, and then there's just black. Are there any other physical characteristics? Question one and question two, bar guest. That's an odd. What's the inference there?

[Maddy Pelling]

So the dog is usually described as large. Now, large for whatever period of history you're talking, you've got to think also, but this is kind of a history of dogs, Right. That there aren't set breeds until the 19th century. And so you've got kind of lap dogs for people. But then it ain't that. No, it ain't that. And then you've got sort of big hunting dogs, dogs for protection. And that's more the kind of thing. So it's. You're not necessarily picturing a breed of dog hair, but just a huge hound.

[Anthony Delaney]

Werewolf, like.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, definitely. It is usually described as black. Now, in. In Jane Eyre that we heard there, it's described as black and white because it is a real dog, because it's Pilot Rochester's dog. So I think that's more where the white colouring is coming in. In terms of size, it's described sometimes as the size of a calf or sometimes of a donkey. So this is a big animal. Right. Like this is not your standard Labrador. And also that it has these unusually large eyes that are described sometimes as big as saucers. Which I love that description because it says so much about the material culture of the 19th century. Right. That sources are like the. Go to descriptive measurement. It's also sometimes described as having two heads.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh.

[Maddy Pelling]

Which I don't like.

[Anthony Delaney]

I'm not into it.

[Maddy Pelling]

So we'll just mind you.

[Anthony Delaney]

Isn't that. There's that dog in Harry Potter that has three heads that guard something or other?

[Maddy Pelling]

I don't know. Yeah. But that's Cerberus, the dog of the underworld. That's more from classical mythology. Excellent. You learn stuff every day. It's also described as. This is a barghest, not Cerberus, as having a chain around its neck. Sometimes it's dragging the chain. And I love this idea that it's kind of almost like it's escaped from someone. Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

Or it's under someone's control or something.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And also that it's accompanied by like a clinking sound and that's what you know, Jane absolutely describes that in the extract that we heard from Charlotte Bronte. The noise of the horse coming towards her and the rider and also this dog and this kind of metallic clinking coming out of the dark. In this landscape where there should not be metallic clinking, there's only nature. There's earth and wood and grass and you've got this ghostly. It's ghostly and it seems like a sort of a threat that shouldn't be there. That is something other than the place that you're in. I think of all the folkloric creatures that we've spoken about in this series, I think the black shuck, the barghest, the guy trash, is the scariest one. I think it's genuinely frightening.

[Anthony Delaney]

I think it's really evocative of all of them, I can see it the plainest. So there's something in that.

[Maddy Pelling]

So the Barghest term, the Barghest name in particular is really interesting. So in the north of England, ghost was pronounced guest and bar is thought to mean town. So town. Guest. Town ghost.

[Anthony Delaney]

Love that.

[Maddy Pelling]

And so there's something there about, you.

[Sponsor]

Know, the sort of clinking of chains.

[Maddy Pelling]

It is very ghostly. It's a phantom, it's a spectral being. And I suppose the threat of it, even though it's this huge scary beast and, you know, you've got to think this potentially comes from at least the medieval period where there were bigger predatory animals out in the landscape. There were wolves, there were bears by the 19th century, by the time the Bronte sort of writing about this, and it's Bronte's plural, and we'll get to that in a minute, that it's not just Charlotte who's interested in this idea, that it's kind of not so much the physical threat of this animal, it's not going to attack you, that it is, if you do see it as a threat, because of course, some people do see it as a friendly thing, but if you see it as a threat, it's a sign of things to come, which is a very sort of ghostly function. Right. It's a kind of typical function of seeing a spirit that it's not necessarily going to physically hurt you, but it's telling you it's a warning that things are going to come and it's almost a curse. I sort of love that and I do think it's genuinely frightening.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. I think the ghostly nature of it, the clanking of chains, the appearing out of nowhere, the following you potentially these eyes following you, like that's quite. That's quite terrifying in many ways. But let's talk about one of my favourite friends from the past, Branwell Bronte. And he, if you don't know, is the brother of the famous sisters. And it's his early childhood writings wherein we find guy trash to begin with.

[Maddy Pelling]

Right, yeah. So the Brontes are so fascinating in terms of their childhood. You know, we know Emily, Charlotte and Anne today for their novels and as you say, Branwell's kind of a figure that's fallen to the wayside a little bit. But their childhoods are so full of imagination and gothic darkness really. We know that the four of them, that is the three sisters, Anne Bramwell together wrote and created these imaginary worlds. And they were really interested, for example in the Napoleonic wars and kind of creating all these different heroes and you know, they sort of had this shared imaginative space that they all contributed to. And in Bramwell's writing as a child he talks about the guy trash and he's sort of fascinated with the landscape being haunted. And of course for anyone who's been to Haworth, you know, that is a place that's deeply full of ghosts. I will say I once went on a weekend when I was a teenager. Me and my mum went and she's obsessed with the Railway children. It was all filmed around there. And so we did Railway Children stuff and we did Bronte stuff and we had like the best weekend I've ever had and it was so much fun. And I remember going for. I must not have had a glass of wine. But we went to a bar. I mean, I think it was about a drunk nine year old.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, 15. Okay.

[Maddy Pelling]

No, I was about. I think it was about 14, 15. But I remember we went to like probably the one bar in Haworth. It's a tiny little village on this really steep hill and we were walking back to the place we were staying and it was kind of. Since we'd been in the pub or the bar, whatever it was, this mist had descended, which it often does around.

[Anthony Delaney]

I want to go now.

[Maddy Pelling]

I know. And we were walking back and we saw this creature come out of the mist and it was. The only way I can describe it is it was like if a dog and a fox had combined and it wasn't with anyone. And we were both, we both saw it and we were both like, what? What is that?

[Anthony Delaney]

Stop.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And was it someone's pet? Was it just a really weird dog?

[Anthony Delaney]

No, but hold on. Did you figure out what that was?

[Maddy Pelling]

No. It just sort of walked off into the mist and we were like, oh, time to go back to the hotel.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's so amazing when it rains in Haworth. It's just so nice.

[Maddy Pelling]

Although I will say it's slippy. Cause it's just. It's Victorian cobbles everywhere.

[Anthony Delaney]

We need to do an episode on this as well. Because in Haworth, talking about Slippy, that's what triggered this memory. It was so impoverished in the 19th century when the Brontes were there, that the ground started to shift in the graveyard. And, you know, famously, the juices from the bodies in the graveyard started to flow down the hill. Cause the graveyard's up at the very top and you know, it was intermingling with the water supply and it was literally killing the inhabitants.

[Maddy Pelling]

Like it was not for the Brontes, though, who lived in the parsonage at the top of the hill with their own clean water supply as they waved at everyone below dying of cholera.

[Anthony Delaney]

That town, well, village is not a town even. It's just full of history and so well preserved.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I potentially saw the barghest.

[Sponsor]

This podcast is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics, presenting on Swift Horses, starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Calle. Muriel and her husband Lee are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War. But their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card sheet he's fallen for. Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own. Gambling on racehorses and exploring a love she never dreamed possible. On Swift Horses is now playing only in theaters. Get Tickets [e-mail] if your job at.

A healthcare facility includes disinfecting against viruses, you know prevention is the best medicine. And maintaining healthy spaces starts with a healthy cleaning routine. Grainger's world class supply chain helps ensure you have the quality products you need when you need them. From disinfectants and cleaning supplies to personal protective equipment so you can help deliver a clean bill of health. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Maddy Pelling]

I feel like talking of childhood therapy, that's a memory I've carried around and not really aired before. So this is an example.

[Anthony Delaney]

I'm not qualified to deal with this. Maddie, you're gonna have to go to.

[Maddy Pelling]

Somewhere else beyond Your push.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, no, I can't. I can't.

[Maddy Pelling]

On that note, shall we move on in this conversation?

[Anthony Delaney]

Let's move on, Maddie.

[Maddy Pelling]

We've been talking a lot in these episodes about the resurgence of interest in folklore across the British Isles and Ireland, not just in England. And it just so happens that one of our listeners of the podcast is the celebrated artist who is obsessed with folklore, Ben Edge. I love Ben's work, and he has spent the last decade traveling Britain and observing its folk traditions. He is an artist and a writer, and he goes along to these events, paints a picture of what he's seen, what he's taken part in, and he's written about it. And you can see his pictures in a book called Folklore Rising, which I really recommend. It's really great. We spoke to him, and we asked him what he thinks about this resurgence in folklore and why it's still so relevant today.

[Ben Edge]

So, as I've seen it, I've been documenting it now, really, for about 10 years, traveling around the country, filming, visiting, interviewing people. And I think what's happened, really, since COVID I would say, is people were forced to experience their immediate environments in new ways. So I think people started to really fall in love all over again with where they live. There's been a resurgence of interest in standing stones, for example. And there's something about getting out and seeing a standing stone that makes you enjoy and romanticize your country in a new way. And it's the same with the folk traditions. They plug you into this feeling that you're part of a lineage of something, something much bigger than yourself. The seasons, nature. And it just makes you feel hope. And it also gives you a way of kind of reclaiming a sense of national identity that you can be proud of. Each folk tradition and custom you visit is slightly different, but it also has overlapping, interesting connections. So I think that really makes it really vibrant and exciting in this kind of capitalist age of monoculture where, you know, all high streets feel the same. But yet, if you look a bit under the surface, you realize that actually there's so much to celebrate and so much culture that's there and never really gone anywhere. And I think the resurgence is a new wave of people that didn't have access to that in their everyday lives growing up, and they're kind of reclaiming it. And what's more exciting than that, this idea that people are reclaiming something that was always theirs, that they had kind of lost through no fault of their own.

[Anthony Delaney]

So what I'm taking from what Ben just said there is. Don't concentrate so much on the Nandos, Anthony. There are more individual.

[Maddy Pelling]

Absolutely.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, but that was really interesting and I think, like. And quite beautiful, actually, in a way, in that this falling in love with your local area and with your surroundings and letting it connect you to. Letting these stories in this folklore connect you to those places in a way, meaningful way. I like that.

[Maddy Pelling]

And especially, you know, in our modern age now we're so concerned with the environment, with nature, with our relationship to that landscape. And I think telling stories about it is a way to bring that to life and to kind of give us a sense of investment in that part of the world around us. Yeah, I love what Ben said there.

[Anthony Delaney]

You have one more narrative for us before we go. But before your narrative, I just want to lead us in to give you a hint of what this would be, because this is from my favorite childhood cartoon and it goes, look at this stuff. Isn't it neat? Wouldn't you think? My collection's complete. Yes, we sing now. The album coming soon.

[Maddy Pelling]

The Cornish didn't invent the concept of the mermaid, but they did make it their own. There was once a young woman called Selena who lived in a village in North Cornwall among the up and down.

[Sponsor]

Lanes that plunge down to the ocean's waves.

[Maddy Pelling]

As a young girl, Selina had fallen into a deep pool.

[Sponsor]

One day, her mother saved her from it. But from then on, there was something.

[Maddy Pelling]

Different about her daughter.

[Sponsor]

She was drawn to the ocean and was reluctant to go to church. Her appearance altered and she became more.

[Maddy Pelling]

And more beautiful with each passing year.

[Sponsor]

When the squire's unscrupulous nephew, Walter Trove.

[Maddy Pelling]

Saw her, she was to him irresistible.

[Sponsor]

It wasn't long before another change came over Selina's body. She was pregnant. When her time came, Walter was not there and she died in childbirth. The villagers said that spirits attended her in her final hours. Years later, Walter was stumbling home along the shore, wild, drunk, when he heard beautiful singing. There was Selina. He took her by the arm and.

[Maddy Pelling]

She embraced him with a kiss on his head.

[Sponsor]

She told him he would be with her till death.

[Maddy Pelling]

At this, Walter panicked and begged to be let free. But the king creature kissed him on the lips and said in a voice.

[Sponsor]

That was not Selina's, give me back my dead. For this was the mermaid, mother of Selina.

[Maddy Pelling]

And with a crash of lightning, great waves came galloping in.

[Sponsor]

Walter and the mermaid were carried out to sea, where she and the other.

[Maddy Pelling]

Merfolk tossed the dying man around in revenge for.

[Sponsor]

For his cruel Misuse of their. Selina.

[Anthony Delaney]

Tossed him around. It's a bit much. Jesus. It's like, like. It's like food. They're like seals, like, throwing food around. Yeah, but listen, he's like a little.

[Maddy Pelling]

Rag doll on the waves.

[Anthony Delaney]

We're gonna come back to this in a second. But I love mermaids. I used to want to be one.

[Maddy Pelling]

I've told it was the fork in the red hair. For me.

[Anthony Delaney]

That was the tail. I told her this before my granny made me tail. Do you remember?

[Maddy Pelling]

Oh, I'd forgotten that.

[Anthony Delaney]

She's dead now. But grannies are so often dead. It's not that big a deal. But she made me. But she had.

[Maddy Pelling]

Sorry, Granny Delaney.

[Anthony Delaney]

She had. Oh, it was Granny Delaney. Well done. She had. Yeah, she made me a green tail because of Ariel, like, because he's a little mermaid.

[Maddy Pelling]

Well, then you have something in common with Ariel. With Ariel, but also a 19th century vicar in Cornwall.

[Anthony Delaney]

That is not surprising. Are you surprised that I have something in common with a 19th century vicar? I am not.

[Maddy Pelling]

Absolutely not. I'm obsessed as man Reverend Hawker. Look him up. He wrote the Cornish national anthem. He collected ghost stories. He literally went around writing down ghost stories people would tell in the local area in Cornwall, on the north coast of Cornwall in the 19th century. I have stayed in his cottage, which is on the edge of the shore. There's no phone signal. Well, there is electricity, but there's no WI fi or anything in the cottage.

[Anthony Delaney]

I can never go there.

[Maddy Pelling]

Landmark Trust is amazing. It's amazing. Amazing. It's so haunted. He excommunicated. He was really eccentric and he had all these animals that would follow him around. He had like a donkey they'd bring into the house and he had dogs.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, cute.

[Maddy Pelling]

He excommunicated his cat for mousing on a Sunday. He's so eccentric. Now, the two things that. Well, one you definitely have in common with him. Maybe not the other one. He built himself a little hut on the side of a cliff in Cornwall and would sit doing opium in there, looking out at sea.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay.

[Maddy Pelling]

Wild.

[Anthony Delaney]

That's not the one I have in common.

[Maddy Pelling]

And it is the smallest National Trust property in Britain.

[Anthony Delaney]

Stop it.

[Maddy Pelling]

Amazing.

[Anthony Delaney]

Jesus. Is it all down in the same place?

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right, okay.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. Near Bude in Cornwall on the north coast. The thing that you have in common, though, is that he used to dress as a mermaid. He used to sit out on the rocks.

[Anthony Delaney]

I see.

[Maddy Pelling]

And the locals would be like, ah, I'm sure there's the vicar. Dress totally normal. Love him.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. No, see, I never. Cause like, we didn't live by the sea, so I didn't have the rocks. There was a lake. So I just was kind of like rolling into the lake to a pool.

[Maddy Pelling]

Because Jenny Greenteeth would get you.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, and I couldn't go to the pool because I'd be absolutely mortified. Well, I wasn't mortified, but I'm sure, like, my parents would have been mortified. I was there going, I don't know. I'm wearing a green tail.

[Maddy Pelling]

This is it.

[Anthony Delaney]

This is a dream.

[Maddy Pelling]

You were singing the Disney songs as you went. Oh, I love this view so much.

[Anthony Delaney]

I never had the purple bra, though. And I really did want it. I was like, I want the purple child bra.

[Sponsor]

The bra, yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

But she didn't knit me that.

[Maddy Pelling]

I love this view. What I will say is that in the story we've just heard, mermaids are really scary. They are not the pretty, cutesy, flouncy Disney version. In this story, they are deadly. Yeah, yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

They sound vicious.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, yeah. And there's this kind of interesting tension between the land and the sea and this idea. And we found this in our Scottish episode with selkies as well, the strange seal like creatures that shed their skin, that mermaids like in the Little Mermaid can come ashore and they can live human lives. But there's always that pull back to the ocean. And if you betray that in some way, if you try and stay on the land or keep someone else who's meant to be in the sea from the land, you will be punished for it. You will come a cropper. And I think, you know, if you go to Cornwall in particular, I mean, along the coast of the whole British Isles, but certainly in Cornwall, it's such a violent bit of coastline there. The Reverend that we were talking about, you can go to the church where he was based and there are mass graves of people he buried who were shipwreck victims. You know, it's brutal along there that people would just wash up on the beach. And of course, you get smuggling and wrecking along that coast as well. So this is a deadly place. And you can see why. Mermaid's almost like a personification of that danger in a way.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right, we're going to finish here. But dear Landmark Trust, if you want to drop us an email on afterdarkistoryhead.com Me and Maddy and the After Dark team want to go down to. Where is it?

[Maddy Pelling]

Bude in Cornwall. The little valley where the cottages are is called Coombe.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay, I need to see this mass grave and I will wear my mermaid tail for YouTube and what more of a fitting and I want to see this mass grave. This is too good. It's too good to so Landmark Trust Send us an email. Please do now listen. If you are a listener or a viewer on YouTube, you can also send us an email to the same addresses that happens after dark. Thank you so much for listening or watching. If you have enjoyed this, do give us a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. And we want to say thanks for listening to the whole four episodes of the Folklore collection of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. It's been a really interesting exploration, I think, and I think it's really interesting to think about how these things sit alongside and complement histories in those areas and how they've informed them and how they've kind of come up against tension with them. Thank you for listening and we'll see you again soon.

[Sponsor]

This podcast is brought to you by Sony Pictures Classics Presenting on Swift Horses Starring Daisy Edgar Jones, Jacob Elordi, Will Poulter, Diego Calva and Sasha Calle. Muriel and her husband Lee are beginning a bright new life in California when he returns from the Korean War, but their newfound stability is upended by the arrival of Lee's charismatic brother, Julius, a wayward gambler with a secret past. A dangerous love triangle quickly forms when Julius takes off in search of the young card sheet he's fallen for. Muriel's longing for something more propels her into a secret life of her own, gambling on racehorses and exploring a love she never dreamed possible. On Swift Horses is now playing only in theaters. Get Tickets [e-mail] if your job at.

A healthcare facility includes disinfecting against viruses, you know prevention is the best medicine, and maintaining healthy spaces starts with a healthy cleaning routine. Grainger's world class supply chain helps ensure you have the quality products you need when you need them, from disinfectants and cleaning supplies to personal protective equipment so you can help deliver a clean bill of health. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.