The Ghost of Mary Queen of Scots

Summary

After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal – Episode: The Ghost of Mary Queen of Scots

Release Date: May 29, 2025
Hosts: Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling
Channel: History Hit

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal, historians Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling delve into the spectral legacy of Mary Queen of Scots. The hosts explore not only Mary’s tumultuous life but also the enduring ghost stories that continue to captivate Scotland and beyond. By intertwining historical facts with paranormal narratives, Delaney and Pelling reveal how Mary’s tragic story has transcended time, becoming a compelling figure in Scottish ghost culture.

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Mary Queen of Scots: A Tragic Beginning

The episode opens with an atmospheric recounting of Mary’s early ascent to the throne. Born in 1542 at Linlithgow Palace, Mary became queen just six days after her father, James V, passed away. Anthony Delaney sets the stage:

“Deep into the winter of 1542, six days into her fragile life, Mary Stuart became queen, not in glory, but in grief. [03:27]”

Mary’s coronation in Stirling Castle in September 1543 was filled with opulence yet overshadowed by impending betrayals and conflicts. Delaney poignantly notes:

“The sacred oil anointed her skin, it could not shield her from the betrayals, the bloodshed, the exiles to come. [04:00]”

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Marriages and Political Turmoil

Mary’s life was marked by a series of strategic yet ill-fated marriages, each contributing to her eventual downfall. The first significant marriage discussed is her union with Francis, the Dauphin of France, which made her Queen of France for two brief years until Francis’s untimely death in 1560.

Maddy Pelling emphasizes the cyclical tragedy in Mary’s relationships:

“Her life is being defined by her relationship to men. This time it's her son as well as her husband's that she is. [15:24]”

Following Francis's death, Mary returned to a Protestant Scotland, where her subsequent marriage to Lord Darnley, an English noble, further complicated her position. The murder of her close friend Rizzio by Darnley cast a dark shadow over their union:

“Darnley murders Rizzio in front of Mary. [12:33]”

This act not only strained Mary’s personal life but also intensified political tensions, leading to further instability and rebellion against her rule.

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Downfall and Imprisonment

Mary’s tumultuous reign led to her eventual imprisonment and forced abdication in 1567 after the Battle of Carberry Hill. The hosts discuss how her marriages and the resulting power struggles catalyzed her downfall:

“This is how the marriages contribute to her eventual downfall. [15:24]”

Her flight to England in search of refuge with her cousin, Elizabeth I, marked the beginning of 19 years of house arrest. The relationship between the two queens deteriorated, culminating in Mary’s execution in 1587 for her alleged involvement in the Babington Plot to overthrow Elizabeth.

Anthony Delaney reflects on Mary’s tragic end:

“She is found guilty of treason in the Babington plot... And she is then executed. [19:37]”

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Ghostly Legends and Sightings

The episode transitions to the paranormal, exploring various sites associated with Mary’s ghost. Delaney and Pelling take listeners on a ghost tour, highlighting key locations where Mary's spectral presence is said to linger.

Loch Leven Castle

Mary's imprisonment at Loch Leven Castle is one of the primary sites of her ghostly apparitions. Visitors have reported sightings of a woman in a small boat, believed to be Mary attempting to escape:

“Visitors to Lochleven have reported seeing somebody in a small boat... They hear a woman crying. [27:43]”

Stirling Castle

As the site of Mary’s coronation and a symbol of royal power, Stirling Castle is another frequent location for ghost sightings. Mary is often described as a “Pink Lady,” a reference to the color associated with her coronation attire:

“She supposedly appears here as a Pink Lady... [33:12]”

The hosts note the disconnect between historical accuracy and ghost lore:

“The color that Mary wore at her coronation, which doesn't ring true to me. [33:22]”

Fotheringhay Castle

Fotheringhay Castle in Northamptonshire is where Mary was executed. Ghost sightings here often include the sounds of thumps and bangs, reminiscent of her brutal execution:

“She is seen as a woman in red... [36:54]”

The Talbot Hotel, Oundle

Interestingly, some ghost stories suggest that bricks from Fotheringhay Castle were used to build the Talbot Hotel in Oundle, which now claims to be haunted by Mary’s ghost:

“They took some bricks from Fotheringhay and moved it... and now the inn has claimed that there's a ghost of Mary Queen of Scots. [42:10]”

Additionally, a small white dog is often reported alongside Mary’s apparition, adding another layer to the ghostly narrative:

“People do say they see a small white dog ghost there as well. [40:43]”

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Cultural Significance and Tourism

Delaney and Pelling delve into the broader cultural impact of Mary’s ghost, comparing her to other famous ghostly figures like Anne Boleyn in England. They argue that Mary’s spectral presence serves as a gateway to engaging with Scottish history, fostering both tourism and historical interest.

“Mary Queen of Scots is not treated like that where they're given... But here Mary is very much a prisoner. [18:09]”

The hosts discuss how ghost stories enhance the allure of historic sites, making them popular tourist destinations. They highlight the symbiotic relationship between ghost lore and historical preservation:

“Ghosts are really useful... …these ghost stories can turn up places that the Scottish people would like you to visit. [26:24]”

Maddy Pelling underscores the role of ghosts in community and storytelling:

“It's about community, it's about storytelling... [43:18]”

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Conclusion: Ghosts as Historical Gateways

In wrapping up, Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling emphasize the importance of paranormal stories in making history accessible and engaging. They argue that ghost tales, particularly those surrounding figures like Mary Queen of Scots, provide a compelling entry point for listeners to explore and appreciate historical narratives.

“People might have come to this episode going, oh, I'm interested in the ghost of Mary Queen of Scots. And by so doing, they may have learned something about the history of Mary Queen of Scots. [46:03]”

Maddy Pelling adds:

“It's a gateway into thinking about these histories, thinking about these moments in lives that have been lived and lost and accessing them in some way. [46:41]”

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Notable Quotes

• Anthony Delaney:
  “Deep into the winter of 1542, six days into her fragile life, Mary Stuart became queen, not in glory, but in grief. [03:27]”
  “She would spend her life with others trying to silence her. [04:00]”
  “Mary Queen of Scots is not treated like that where they're given... But here Mary is very much a prisoner. [18:09]”
  “She is seen as a woman in red... [36:54]”
  “People might have come to this episode going, oh, I'm interested in the ghost of Mary Queen of Scots. And by so doing, they may have learned something about the history of Mary Queen of Scots. [46:03]”

• Maddy Pelling:
  “Her life is being defined by her relationship to men. [15:24]”
  “It's about community, it's about storytelling... [43:18]”
  “It's a gateway into thinking about these histories, thinking about these moments in lives that have been lived and lost and accessing them in some way. [46:41]”

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Final Thoughts

This episode masterfully blends historical analysis with paranormal intrigue, offering listeners a multifaceted view of Mary Queen of Scots. By exploring both her personal tragedies and the ghost stories that emanate from her life, Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling provide a rich, engaging narrative that honors Mary’s legacy while captivating the imagination with tales from the after dark.

Whether you’re a history enthusiast or a paranormal aficionado, this episode serves as a compelling reminder of how the past continues to haunt and shape our present.

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For more fascinating episodes and in-depth historical explorations, subscribe to History Hit and join Anthony and Maddy every Monday and Thursday.

Transcript

[Anthony Delaney]

Hi, we're your hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling, and if you would like After Dark Myths, Misdeeds and the Paranormal ad free and get early access, sign.

[Maddy Pelling]

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[Anthony Delaney]

Sign up now by visiting historyhit.com subscribe.

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[Maddy Pelling]

Hi there, it's Maddie. I'm just jumping in to let you know that this episode contains some sensitive content. So if that's not for you, check out our back catalogue of amazing episodes. And if you're sticking with us, enjoy. Hello, and welcome to After Dark. I'm Maddie.

[Anthony Delaney]

And I'm Anthony.

[Maddy Pelling]

And in this episode, we're going to be talking about some chilling sightings of the ghost of Mary Queen of Scots. Along the way, we're going to be talking about Scottish ghost culture and, of course, Mary's tragic story. But first, before we do, we're going to roll back the years to Scotland in 1542, when, as a baby, Mary was suddenly thrown into the spotlight.

[Anthony Delaney]

Deep into the winter of 1542, six days into her fragile life, Mary Stuart became queen, not in glory, but in grief. Her father, James V, lay cold in his bed, supposedly whispering prophecy with his last breath. It came with a lass. It'll gang with a lass. And so it did. The crown was passed to the cradle. But it wasn't until September 1543, amid the cloistered shadows of Stirling Castle, that the infant queen was finally crowned. Nobles gathered in velvet and furs, wary eyes watching the ceremony unfold. The bishop's hands, heavy with rings and ritual, hovered above a child too young to understand the power or peril now woven into her life. As the sacred oil anointed her skin, it could not shield her from the betrayals, the bloodshed, the exiles to come. She would rule France, flee Scotland, and be killed by England. That coronation marked not just the rise of a new sovereign, but the quiet toll of a distant bell. Crowned before she could speak, Mary would spend her life with others trying to silence her, be it regents, rivals or queens, a cousin who saw her as a threat. The sparkle of gold placed gently upon her head that day would one day morph and become the glint of an axe. But after that axe fell, did something of Mary's spirit remain? They say it lingers, seen in the centuries since, gliding through corridors of castles significant to her, including Stirling Castle, the place where it all began. This is after dark, and this is the history of the ghost of Mary, Queen of Scots.

[Maddy Pelling]

That was a very atmospheric and chilling opening to what is a really tragic tale. We've done the final days of Mary before, so go back and listen to that episode if you haven't already. But her life is so full of tumult and change and these moments of sort of drama and Pivoting and. Yeah, I'm obsessed with her. And we haven't even started.

[Anthony Delaney]

I know. It's funny because as you say, we've done the final date. We are gonna give some context here again, just so that we're aware of the history, because one of the things we always try to do with these ghostly paranormal stories. Right, is place the history in and around it to say, what are these ghosts telling us about the history? Or are they telling us anything about the real history?

[Maddy Pelling]

What work are they doing for us?

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, they are doing. You know, there's a reason behind these ghost stories and we'll find out what those reasons are as we go through.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And I think Mary Queen of Scots, along with several other Scottish figures, but she is one who has those ghostly and cultural resonances in Scotland and indeed across Britain. That she is this spectre that means different things to different people. So we will get into that. Give me some historic context then, please.

[Anthony Delaney]

I will. So these are some facts. This is what we know before we get into the ghostly stuff. She was born in 1542 in Linlithgow Castle palace, rather, in Scotland. Her father is James V. He, of course, is Scottish. He is from the House of Stuart. Her mother here is Mary. She is from the House of Guise. This is a Catholic family, Catholic French family. And the marriage is shoring up the old alliance between Scotland and France. And this is an important relationship that obviously goes on to shape Mary's life. It's very easy to forget that she becomes queen when she is six days old because her father, James V, dies. They're not entirely sure. Cholera, dipteria, one of those diseases, even though don't quite know what it is.

[Maddy Pelling]

But it's a life, then, that is begun with death. Death is, you know, sort of hanging over her. Not to be too poetic about it, but that's something that continues throughout her life. And it's sort of no wonder then that she becomes this ghostly figure later on, that we kind of want to understand her in these terms of sort of fate and macabreness.

[Anthony Delaney]

Is that the word, macabreness?

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

I mean, it's such a weird image, isn't it? On one side there is this coffin with a king in it, and on the other side there's a cradle with six days into her life, a queen in it.

[Maddy Pelling]

And just like, we just have a moment for that. Im.

[Anthony Delaney]

Thanks. Thanks very much. What is that little crown? It's not a little crown because there's only one crown. And so that crown has to be placed over that baby's head at that coronation. So it's a very dramatic. And that crown is taken from the coffin of her deceased father, you know.

[Maddy Pelling]

And literally placed on. Well, not on her head. Around the head. Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

So it's a. As you say, it's very macabre. Passing over in this particular instance, actually, in most instances. But when it's a baby, it feels even more pertinent, doesn't it?

[Maddy Pelling]

You've talked there about the impact that France will have on her life and that she will have on France.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Maddy Pelling]

But tell me more about the Scotland that she's born into. What does that look like in this moment?

[Anthony Delaney]

So, despite that alliance. Well, because of that alliance, I suppose, Scotland is currently in conflict with the Habsburg Empire, so there is some tension going on there. England tensions are brewing slightly. It's a moment of uncertainty, I think, in Scotland, and then the king dies. So.

[Maddy Pelling]

And then a baby is in charge.

[Anthony Delaney]

And so then we kick into what is essentially a Regency crisis, where there's this grappling for power. And who is going to be in control in this power vacuum? Yes, there's a monarch, but she's a baby. So what is important and who's going to be leading that, it becomes really, really pivotal.

[Maddy Pelling]

And not just who's gonna be leading the nation, but who's gonna be shaping that child as she grows.

[Anthony Delaney]

And if we wanna talk a little bit more about that, then go back and listen, we discuss that in more depth here. But one of the things I want to come onto now is one of the other things that shapes the ghost of Mary and the history of her ghosts. Right. And that's, of course, her marriages, because it's one of the aspects of her life that really comes to define her death, actually. And I know we've just talked about her being born, but we're moving swiftly to her death. She goes.

[Maddy Pelling]

We're just gonna skip the middle part.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Forget the whole life. Well, in 1543, we have something that's known as the rough wooing. So to marry Mary, Queen of Scots was important, and there were, as you can imagine, quite a few people vying for that to happen. One of those people was Henry viii. He wanted her to marry his son, who went on to be Edward vi. And this was known as the rough wooing. You know, those tensions I was talking about between England, some of that materialized. I think it was going on for, like, seven years, this negotiation, but hate the name. The rough wooing.

[Maddy Pelling]

I hate it.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, it didn't happen. So he didn't get what he wanted. And that's quite good, actually. So he didn't get what he wanted from Mary, and it didn't kind of go into that generational thing where Henry VIII is always getting what he wants from women. So that didn't happen with him. But instead she was betrothed to Francis, the dauphin of France. They married in 1558 after Henry II's death. Then I so easily forget that, that Frances and Mary, Mary Queen of Scots, they become king, Queen of France. So she does have that brief moment.

[Maddy Pelling]

The clue is not in the name.

[Anthony Delaney]

No. The clue is absolutely not in the name. No.

[Maddy Pelling]

And so she's, if anything, misleading.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. I think she's Queen there for two years. So it's short lived. Her husband dies in 1560, and she comes back then to Protestant Scotland, where, despite the fact that she's Catholic. But she comes back to Scotland just because I think she feels like she might have a. A place to rule there, because technically, this is her kingdom. So she's coming back and she makes her way back in 1561, she's not married, so she needs a partner. So the next person she shacks up with is Lord Darnley, who is English. He's an English noble, and he, of course, is the grandson of Margaret Tudor. Now, that's important because, remember, we were talking about the Tudors before. One of the reasons Mary comes back to Scotland is because she has a really strong claim to the English throne. She is the great granddaughter of Henry vii. And so now we have Darnley, who is the grandson of Margaret Tudor. So she is shoring up that claim to the English throne. So in theory, she's next after the children of Henry viii, assuming they don't have any offspring, which, of course, famously, we know they don't. So we have the marriage now between Darnley and Mary. This is shoring up her claim to the English throne as well as the Scottish throne.

[Maddy Pelling]

But it's not gonna end well, is it?

[Anthony Delaney]

It doesn't, because we have Rizzio. It's. We have this idea that Darnley murders Mary's favorite, Rizzio, one of her favorites, and he is a close friend. He's also her secretary. So Darnley murders Rizzio in front of Mary. Mary is six months pregnant at this point. She later miscarriages, believe, because of the trauma of what she witnessed in that murder. And that in itself has its own ghostly thing. You know about this, right? Cause you've spoken about this on the podcast before, where Rizzio's blood is supposed to reappear in Holyrood. I think it is.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And people in the 18th and 19th century specifically go as tourists to look at the stain on the floor.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. And I think they still talk about it there. It's still a tourist thing there. As is so often the case with Mary's. The men that surround Mary Darnley is also murdered. So this is husband number two that she's down now. Very strange circumstances.

[Maddy Pelling]

It's becoming a pattern. Mary.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah. He disappears into the other realm, and then three months later.

[Maddy Pelling]

Blimey.

[Anthony Delaney]

I know. I'm feeling poetic today. Three months later, she marries again. This time it's James Hepburn, who is the Earl of Bothwell. Now, it's worth noting at this point that Bothwell potentially rapes Mary and because of that, has a claim to take her as his wife. Because we have a word that's used in terms of their union, which is called ravishment. That he had ravished her. And some historians have interpreted that that was a rape situation that he could then claim. It's.

[Maddy Pelling]

Well, that's depressing.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. It's not exactly the most enthusiastic marriage, and it's not a positive marriage.

[Maddy Pelling]

And please tell me he gets.

[Anthony Delaney]

He will. Yes. He's not well liked, and he's very erratic. He's very violent, as you can imagine. So that fits into that potential theory. And he has a problem with drink. And we're just watching here what his influence is, or the courtiers, rather, are watching what his influence is on the throne. So he is exerting an awful lot of power. Bothwell's intrusion is one of the ways in which Mary starts to head towards her downfall. So there's a lot happening before we even get to the end of her life. That's tumultuous. Right.

[Maddy Pelling]

There's so much happening and there's so much death.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

You know, not only is she. Yeah, she begins her life being crowned in the presence of a dead king, but she has these husbands who were all murdered. She is, you know, undergoing a significant amount of personal trauma, trauma to her body in terms of, you know, tragic miscarriages, a potential assault. This is a really dark and violent life so far, and one where she is being pulled this way and that by various people trying to get something from her, trying to get power, trying to maneuver her according to what they want. Okay, tell me the next part of her story, then. Because she has these marriages that can't Be. That's not it for her, is it?

[Anthony Delaney]

No. Well, we know she's heading for a pretty tragic downfall. It's a slow downfall, though, and it kind of starts with a rebellion because of the marriage to Bothwell. So this is another way in which the marriages contribute to her eventual downfall. So there is rebellion which breaks out in 1567, and we have the Battle of Carberry Hill, which is against the Protestant lords. This is all in relation to what Bothwell is doing, how he's controlling Mary and the throne, or how it's seen. She is arrested by her own lords, she's taken to Loch Leven Castle, and that's where she's imprisoned. They feel like it's better to be in control of physical. The person of the Queen, so that Bothwell is not basically, oh, wow, he's.

[Maddy Pelling]

That much of a liability.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Well, they're seeing this kind of blood and fire that Bothwell might bring and it's just not acceptable to them, so they feel like they have to take control. One of the ways in which they force that control on her is she is then forced to abdicate, so she has to give up her crown so that her son will be the heir. They threaten that, you know, if she doesn't, this is just the end of the whole thing. And that's not really acceptable to her. And she's in there, she's in the custody.

[Maddy Pelling]

Her life is being defined by her relationship to men. This time it's her son as well as her husband's that she is. Yeah. Manipulated, maneuvered and understood according to the men in her life.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's under such duress is she at this point that she feels the only thing she can do. And you wouldn't make this, but the only choice that she feels she has at this point is to flee to England.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yes.

[Anthony Delaney]

Which is the famous thing, Right. Everybody knows this is she goes to her cousin Elizabeth I for refuge and she goes to England. And we all know that doesn't go well either. Gosh, it's really just one thing after the other, isn't it?

[Maddy Pelling]

She can't catch a breath.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, she really can't. She was placed under house arrest there for many years.

[Maddy Pelling]

1919. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I knew. It's a long time. Oh, Elizabeth. Oh, gosh. And again, like thinking about Mary's relationship to all the men in her life, going then to another female monarch, she must have thought, this woman is going to have some empathy. Well, if not sympathy, at least for my position, what I'm doing, what I'M up against. But no.

[Anthony Delaney]

And you could argue, you know, with the benefit of hindsight now, I suppose you could argue that if Elizabeth had a real grasp on the idea of absolute queenship, which that's what she would have believed in, or that's what she was supposed to believe in, that there is no way she could have treated another godly anointed monarch like this. And yet she does. So I'm always. We've had this conversation before. I'm always really fascinated by the things people should be believing and the things people were told believed in those points.

[Maddy Pelling]

And there's a distance in between those two things. And yet, I suppose. Could you counter that by saying that Elizabeth has absolute belief in her own God given right to rule?

[Anthony Delaney]

And she has. And this other queen has entered her kingdom.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yes, exactly that. Actually, other people do not have the same claim that she has, that God has made her.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, certainly. If you think about it in say, the Jacobite situation 100 years later in.

[Maddy Pelling]

France, which of course has its roots in this.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, absolutely. Mary Queen of Scots is not treated like that where they're given, you know, they're relatively poor, I suppose, but they're given positions in court. They are. People come to see them. They kind of are referred to as kings and queens in France. But here Mary is very much a prisoner.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

So it is.

[Maddy Pelling]

She's stripped of everything, really. Yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

And eventually, I know we're going through this apace, but again, go back and listen to the final days of Mary Queen of Scots for a little bit more of the historical detail of all of these events. But she is eventually found guilty of treason in terms of the Babington plot, which is the famous, that she was supposedly involved in to overthrow Elizabeth I and place herself on the throne. And she's found guilty of treason. This is Mary Queen of Scots I'm talking about now. And she is then executed. So that's the potted history of Mary. It's a lot, isn't it? Like, how long did that take us? That took us like 15, 20 minutes. There's a lot of history there.

[Maddy Pelling]

Do you know there's a line in Alan Bennett's play the History Boys, and a word of this is gonna have to be bleeped out in post. But it's a line that says history. It's just one thing after another and that is absolutely what is happening.

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, poor Al. Mary has lots of one things happening after the other.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, she really, really.

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[Maddy Pelling]

Let's now park the history that we know. We have the potted version of her life. One thing after another, disaster, disaster, disaster.

[Anthony Delaney]

And then it was bad and then.

[Maddy Pelling]

It was worse and this woman was murdered and another person was murdered and then terrible things happened to her. You can see why she would potentially come back as a ghost to reap horror and fear on her enemies. Let's go on the Mary Queen of Scots ghost tour now. Take me to some of the sites.

[Anthony Delaney]

Where she's been seen. Yeah, that's a good point, actually. You can see why she's a good candidate to come back.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Anthony Delaney]

I suppose one of the things to bear in mind with this is that Scotland has a very full and diverse history of ghosts. Right. So Mary is just one of many that will fit into this Scottish landscape of ghouls and ghosts and spirits that are returning. And I kind of love that because it's a way of communicating history in another way and it's a very folk centered way of communicating history. So she's moving into that tradition here and that's kind of interesting. One of the tropes she fills there is that the kind of lost woman, the wandering woman, a woman in certain.

[Maddy Pelling]

Colours, which is a motif that comes up.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

And that's not woman in white, a woman in black.

[Anthony Delaney]

Exactly. It's not exclusive to Scotland, but it's certainly something we see in Scotland as well as in other places. And it also then feeds into this idea of Scottish identity, Scottish nationalism, that she becomes a figurehead, I suppose, for tensions between Scotland and England and where Scotland sees itself in relation to the kingdom of England.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And ghosts are very, very helpful, I think, in getting to hand pick the historical figures that are useful to you in that moment, that you can, it's, you know, sort of a pick and mix situation. You can be like, oh, let's take this ghost from this era and this ghost from this era and you can jumble it up and sort of curate your own version of history. And the manifestations of these ghosts that are reported in certain sites feed into different narratives being told of that person. It's sort of revisionist history in a way. It's a way of reworking, retelling the facts that we've just gone over in a way that is relevant to the moment in which those ghosts are seen. And also when we get sightings in particular places, they will often then change over decades or centuries. You Know, I'm thinking about the Tower of London, for example, and how that's, you know, reportedly one of the most haunted buildings in Britain, if not the world, but the ghosts that are seen there and that are reported, and then those stories being retold change all the time, and some are more popular than others. And it really depends what's going on in the moment that they're first seen, the moment that they're retold. And, yeah, I think that that's. Mary fits into this. Not only a Scottish tradition, which, of course, is very strong, but also this sort of broader practice of historicizing sites, historicizing moments in national stories.

[Anthony Delaney]

And you know, what else she does in terms of ghost. I mean, all of what you just said.

[Maddy Pelling]

Thanks.

[Anthony Delaney]

And tourism. Because ghosts are really useful. Yeah, yeah. Like, ghosts are worth a bit of money. So what you will find is this ghost, in its various guises will turn up places that the Scottish people would like you to visit and more power to them. Shall we start with the first one?

[Maddy Pelling]

She has sat down and had a.

[Anthony Delaney]

Meeting with the Scotland Tourist Board. Yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

If you could just do this.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Where are you gonna be in May, Mary? Cause we want.

[Maddy Pelling]

We've got you booked in at stirling on the 29th.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

Go on.

[Anthony Delaney]

Take me to the first Loch Leven Castle. Welcome to this very atmospheric place. I will get you to describe it in a minute, but it is a fortress. But it's also been referred to as a prison island. It's apparently one of the most haunted places in Scotland.

[Maddy Pelling]

Love a Scottish castle on an island. Yes, please. Can I just say, that's my ideal living situation, all alone on an island.

[Anthony Delaney]

See, that might be a bit too remote for me even now. You know, I want to be down a lane.

[Maddy Pelling]

But, like me.

[Anthony Delaney]

But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not much. Look, that's not. Her husband's not going.

[Maddy Pelling]

I'd row across the lake or the sea to see him occasionally. Like, we could go to the pub.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, he's really not going.

[Maddy Pelling]

I'd get so much more writing done on this island alone.

[Anthony Delaney]

Someone has a book deadline looming and she's blaming Matt.

[Maddy Pelling]

I'm blaming my husband. I'm so sorry.

[Anthony Delaney]

Funny you should say about rowing. Come to that in a minute, okay? Visitors to Lochleven have reported seeing somebody in a small boat. Not Maddy. It's supposedly Mary. Where she has, you know, supposedly escaped to. They hear a woman crying.

[Maddy Pelling]

No, I'm sorry, Mary Queen Scott.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's usually me that says, no, Mary.

[Maddy Pelling]

Queen Scott's ain't doing her own rowing.

[Anthony Delaney]

Okay. You are gonna find a lot of this happening in these ghost stories where you're like, historically, that's impossible, but it's kind of also irrelevant to the ghost story. But it doesn't fit the history. Yeah, well, of course it doesn't. It's about ghosts. But what I mean is it doesn't make. What people have invented doesn't make sense to the history. It could just never have occurred like that. And that's one of the ways. So there she is, rowing away, and you're away from. Or towards Loch Leven Castle, I suppose.

[Maddy Pelling]

Now, I will say what is interesting about that is that reportedly you're getting these sightings, these visual, ghostly moments, but also you're saying that people are hearing things as well. So you've got these auditory hallucinations, visions, whatever you want to term them as well. And I think so many of the settings where Mary and traditionally ghosts appear are these incredibly atmospheric, tactile, interesting places where layers of history have built up and into that we naturally want to imagine or to add in more layers, layers that are a bit more ephemeral, that are just out of reach. And I think the fact that we're saying we can hear and see her in this sight and that she's moving across the water, rowing. She's not. But. But I think that's. It speaks to our desire as human beings to populate these lost and empty spaces.

[Anthony Delaney]

And I kind of love that for us. Do you know what I mean? Like, good.

[Maddy Pelling]

Good for us.

[Anthony Delaney]

Have a bit of an imagination. Great. Don't just be, like, boring. Fill it in with ghosts. Why not? I'm here for it. So, yes, we have the crying, we have the rowing. I was like, what is this motion rowing? Clearly, I do not do a lot of rowing. I'm gonna stop doing that with my hands now. Feels good. So we have her rowing there. This is where, you know, she was imprisoned, as they were.

[Maddy Pelling]

She really was here?

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, yes. No, she was. She was. So, yeah, she was. She was taken here by the nobles. Remember when I said they had intervened when Bothwell was becoming a little bit too powerful? So this is linking that history where she's isolated by those nobles. So this is where the history and the ghost story intersects.

[Maddy Pelling]

And also, like this interesting isolated space known as prison Island. But is it a safe haven for her? Is it a prison? It's a bit of both, yeah.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, I suppose it's. Well, it's known as prison island, isn't it? So I suppose it's predominantly like, why is she rowing?

[Maddy Pelling]

She's rebrand for Airbnb.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Oh, my God. I would so stay there two nights. Yes, please.

[Maddy Pelling]

Who owns this now, please, can we get.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, probably Heritage Scotland or something like that. Historic Scotland.

[Maddy Pelling]

Send us Historic Scotland, please.

[Anthony Delaney]

But she does attempt to escape, and I think that's what that ghost. So she attempts to escape in 1568, and I think maybe that's what that ghost is doing.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, maybe she is doing her own rowing. No, she's not. She definitely gets someone to do their own.

[Anthony Delaney]

Somebody will help her escape. Right. I doubt she's. She's doing that on her own.

[Maddy Pelling]

I once went on an early date with my husband where he rowed us on a lake. And I'm really bashing on him today. And he was rowing the wrong way and I didn't have the heart to tell him.

[Anthony Delaney]

So where'd you end up? Luck. Leave it.

[Maddy Pelling]

You mean he was literally rowing. Which way do you do it? He was rowing the wrong.

[Anthony Delaney]

In the wrong direction.

[Maddy Pelling]

No, Mary's absolutely having someone to row for.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Yeah. She's not rowing on her own. But anyway, she gets away and she rallies a bit of an army and then she. Well, her.

[Maddy Pelling]

Rallies a bit of an army as you do.

[Anthony Delaney]

I've rallied so many armies in my time. So, yes, Bethleh Langside. She loses. It doesn't matter. And then she has to flee to England. It probably doesn't matter. Probably mattered at the time. But she never comes back to Scotland. Maddie.

[Maddy Pelling]

Well, that's a damning review of the Airbnb castle on the island, isn't it?

[Anthony Delaney]

And this is where she's forced to abdicate, by the way. So this is when that fleeing to England happens.

[Maddy Pelling]

You can see why she never comes back.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, I can. Yeah. I can give you an image of that. Castle Island. Prison island. Would you like to describe what you're seeing? It looks quite lush, doesn't it?

[Maddy Pelling]

It looks like a tropical island. This was taken on the one sunny day in Scotland a year. Sorry, Scotland. Don't call me.

[Anthony Delaney]

Scotland has so many sunny days.

[Maddy Pelling]

It does. I love Scotland. Please.

[Anthony Delaney]

You do. You do.

[Maddy Pelling]

Please don't hurt me. Okay. This is an aerial photograph of an island that is shaped kind of like a snail with its shell.

[Anthony Delaney]

I mean, it looks like a croissant.

[Maddy Pelling]

Okay. Or a croissant. Yeah, sure. Okay. Croissant Island. And it is mostly covered in trees. There's a little sort of spit of beach at the end. There's a little jetty as well where you could row from if you were so inclined. Mary. And in the centre is a. I will say a modest sized castle.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

There's a sort of tower element and a wall all the way around it. It's. It's not huge.

[Anthony Delaney]

No, it's kind of more of a fort than a castle.

[Maddy Pelling]

Would still live there?

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

Writing retreat, please. Okay, we've done one Scottish castle, but it was a minor Scottish castle. It was very unimpressive. Give me a big Scottish castle now, please.

[Anthony Delaney]

I will. This is a Scottish castle. I have been. Have you been to this one? It's Stirling Castle.

[Maddy Pelling]

I've never been to Stirling.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's nice. Well, I wasn't inside, but the bit that I was in outside.

[Maddy Pelling]

Oh, so you meant it wasn't nice inside?

[Anthony Delaney]

No, no, no. Well, I've never been in.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, it could be horrible.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah. God, this is unra. The ghosts have unsettled us.

[Maddy Pelling]

Okay, but it is.

[Anthony Delaney]

But in terms of the history.

[Maddy Pelling]

Get back on track.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, in terms of the history, it is an important site. It is the kind of seat of royal power at this time. And it would make sense that a queen's ghost, that is Mary's ghost, would be seen here.

[Maddy Pelling]

If she's gonna be anywhere, she's gonna be at Stirling. Okay, how does she appear? What's the crack?

[Anthony Delaney]

Well, she supposedly appears here as a Pink Lady. So this is apparently the colour that Mary wore at her coronation, which doesn't ring true to me.

[Maddy Pelling]

Wait, her coronation as a baby?

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, yeah, I know it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't. I'm saying, you know, that this is why they've given her that color. But it doesn't really stand up, I don't think, necessarily to scrutiny. But Stirling Castle is the seat of royal power. Very connected to James vi and first her son, of course. So I think the narrative building here is kind of going, it's a mother returning to her son. This is where he's raised.

[Maddy Pelling]

Right.

[Anthony Delaney]

And this is, you know, he becomes very Protestant here. He's crowned here. And so it's just tying her into this. And it's also talking about that tragic element of being removed from your child as well, you know, so it's tying all of those narratives together that they come to Stirling.

[Maddy Pelling]

So people see her. Are they hearing her as well? Cause obviously we have her rowing. We had her sort of. What was she doing in the other place? Moaning. Crying.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, crying. Well, she'll be very upset now for being taken to Prison Island.

[Maddy Pelling]

Is she making any Sounds at Stirling.

[Anthony Delaney]

She is. Remember I said about the baby? So we have lullabies. Her. Of course we do. We love a ghost with a lullaby. She's whispering as if like talking to a child.

[Maddy Pelling]

She's very gently coded in this ghost story. She's pink, she's singing lullabies. She's very motherly. This is a very. Quite a sort of modern feminine version.

[Anthony Delaney]

Of foreign actually, in a way isn't.

[Maddy Pelling]

Or even 20th century with the pink. Yeah. Interesting.

[Anthony Delaney]

So that's her kind of Scotland journey, but probably the most significant haunting maybe, or the haunting that makes the most sense in terms of trauma and staying in the place where there's trauma comes in England in. Fotheringhay Castle is the name of the place. It's where she's tried and executed.

[Maddy Pelling]

Where's that then?

[Anthony Delaney]

It's in Northamptonshire. I've been there. It's just ruins now, but.

[Maddy Pelling]

Sorry, have you done like the full Mary Queen of scenes?

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, yeah. I don't know. Well, I did. I lived near both of those places for certain amounts of time.

[Maddy Pelling]

So if you need to know anything about Anthony, it's that he moves houses constantly. You have lived.

[Anthony Delaney]

It's too much.

[Maddy Pelling]

You've lived everywhere.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. I'm never in any of these castles, mind, which is a sad state of affairs. So if anyone wants to give me a call.

[Maddy Pelling]

One can hope. Okay, so tell me, what's her relationship to this place? And she's not kept here for the full 19 years?

[Anthony Delaney]

No. This is where she ends up in 1586 after the 19 years of house arrest, because she is to be tried and she will be executed here. This is when she's found guilty of treason in the Babington plot to remove Elizabeth. And so this is a real tangible piece of history. We know she's here. We know she's tried, we know she's executed.

[Maddy Pelling]

So actually it makes sense when she meets Arendt here. It's quite brutal. Right? Like it's not a clean kill.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. No. She is found guilty in. I think it's October 1586. Yes, that's what my notes say. October 1586.

[Maddy Pelling]

Tell me and I'll believe you.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. And she is found guilty. But Elizabeth ums and ahs about what to do with her. So it's not until the following year, 1587, that she is actually executed. And when it comes to it, again, go back to final days of Mary Queen of Scots. All the details are in there, but it takes three or four attempts to actually sever the head from the Body. It's not a pleasant disposal and not befitting a queen. No, not at all. And one of the reasons that she gets this kind of martyrology surrounding her straight away after her death.

[Maddy Pelling]

Martyrology, please.

[Anthony Delaney]

I was raised as an Irish Catholic. I can roll that word out whenever you want me to.

[Maddy Pelling]

That's a gorgeous book title. Please write that book.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, God. I have a clue what to write. So, yeah, so it makes sense. And actually, this all feeds into the ghost that's seen there because she is seen. A woman in red. So here's more colors.

[Maddy Pelling]

You'd think so if she's had her head hacked off.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, well. And red is the color of Catholic martyrs.

[Maddy Pelling]

Okay, Right. Okay.

[Anthony Delaney]

So this is why she's seen in red there. And she's often seen on February 8, which is, of course, the anniversary of her death. This is why ghost stories can be really useful because the story goes, she's seen on February 8th, then you make that link, and then you know the date that she's executed on. So they do help. They do inform one another.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anniversaries, important places, battles as well. You often get ghosts associated with battles. They are a way of marking history. Ghosts are.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Maddy Pelling]

They're a useful historical or historiographical tool.

[Anthony Delaney]

Learning tool. Yeah. In the other two locations, we talked about sounds. So we had crying and rowing. We have all those kind of sounds at the first place. At the second place, then we had the whispering, the lullabies. Cause we're talking about babies here. So we're talking about at Fotheringhay, we have thump, bumps, bangs. Sounds that fit with the execution, basically. So the sound of the axe coming down and so we're hearing three or four times. Yeah. So again, it's interesting. There's clues to the history in the sounds that are being ghostly laid upon these places.

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[Anthony Delaney]

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[Maddy Pelling]

Now, one thing I do know about this site is that there is also the ghost of a small dog.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, this is mad to me because it's all almost talked about as fact that this happened and it doesn't make sense to me, but I'd just be interested to know what you think. So there's this thing that when she was executed, a small white dog had been under her skirts. Like her small white dog that she absolutely loved and didn't want to leave her side. And then when she was executed, the white dog made itself known out of her skirts and then was like, oh, my God, everyone's so sad because there's a small white dog and the woman has lost her head.

[Maddy Pelling]

But like, it was in that order.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah. Oh, my God, the dog. That'd be you. Me? She did have a small white dog. There's a world in which she had numerous mobile dogs, actually. But why would the dog be hiding under the skirt? Like, I know that kind of Tudor garb is quite large, but, like, she's going to her execution and she has to go up steps to get there. Oh, well, actually, maybe she didn't come with her.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, maybe it's like, maybe it's by the skirts and people don't really notice it because it's so close to her. Maybe she's just trained really, really well.

[Anthony Delaney]

I want to believe it, but either way, people do say they see a small white dog ghost there as well.

[Maddy Pelling]

My dog would be far too big to fit under my skirt.

[Anthony Delaney]

Molly would come with me. Kip would be like, you're on your own, mate. You can deal with this yourself.

[Maddy Pelling]

I'll chew on your head afterwards.

[Anthony Delaney]

I don't care about you at all. But there is another place. Oh, I've also been here. Oundle. Have you ever been to Oundel?

[Maddy Pelling]

Yes. Have I? What is it? Hold on. Arundel.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, no, not Arendelle. Oundel.

[Maddy Pelling]

No.

[Anthony Delaney]

O, U N D L E. I think.

[Maddy Pelling]

No.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Maddy Pelling]

I feel like I've not been to any castles ever.

[Anthony Delaney]

Midlands. See, the Midlands are. No, Oundell's not a castle, so Oundel's a Little town. It's very sandstone. Y It's very beautiful, actually. Maybe Northamptonshire too. Certainly in the Midlands. It's nice. It's nice. There's like a boarding school there. And, you know, I think it's maybe even 16th century in origin. So the whole town has grown up around that. So it's all very sandstone. Y It's like a really small Oxford or Cambridge. Like it's essentially a big village. There's a place there called the Talbot Hotel and it is said that the place.

[Maddy Pelling]

Talbot being a small dog, by the way.

[Anthony Delaney]

Oh, is that. Actually Talbot is a small dog.

[Maddy Pelling]

Talbot is a small dog.

[Anthony Delaney]

Didn't know that. Oh, my God. It's learning day. Every day on after dark. But they had taken. Apparently they had taken some of the bricks from fothering hay and moved it. Cause it's not that far away from Roundle and used it to build the Talbot Hotel.

[Maddy Pelling]

The ghost go with the brick.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes, they took some bricks and the staircase, apparently, or some of the wood from the staircase of Fotheringhay and used that to build the inn. And now the inn has claimed that there's a ghost of Mary Queen of Scots.

[Maddy Pelling]

That's right. Love that for them.

[Anthony Delaney]

I know, I know, I know. Yeah.

[Maddy Pelling]

I mean, I will say, you know, again, it comes down to this idea of sort of historic sites and historic materials. The building itself is imbued with, you know, the sort of idea of like stone tape theory.

[Anthony Delaney]

Right.

[Maddy Pelling]

And that ghostly happenings or big sort of important historical moments are somehow seeded into the material of the environment in which they happen. So I can totally buy. I fully believe that. I fully believe the dog. I'm on board.

[Anthony Delaney]

They say they can feel the presence of her, of Mary Queen of Scots on those steps in the Talbot.

[Maddy Pelling]

And isn't that she's whispering in the.

[Anthony Delaney]

Hunter'S ears, what the hell am I doing? Have another bite. Spend money here. But I think it's fascinating because we've talked about this in other episodes where pubs become the focus for some of these paranormal things. And it feels very. And this is no shade, but this is like. Feels very deliberate that you would that these places that you want people to visit and spend money in. And I'm not talking about the owners today, I'm talking about, you know, centuries of owners who go, guess who you might bump into on the stairs if you come here and have a pint or whatever. And great, like, you know, marketing ploy.

[Maddy Pelling]

Yeah. And I think that kind of ghost culture is often quite tongue in cheek.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yes.

[Maddy Pelling]

And it's it's doing several things at once. And like you say, it's advertising, it's drawing people in, it's storytelling as well. You know, you think of pubs have historically been places where people come together, they gather around a fire, they have a drink, they relax together. It's about community, it's about storytelling. It's about talking to your neighbors and reiterating the culture in which you live, confirming your identity, your group identity, who you are. And so to me, it's no surprise that certainly in the 18th and 19th century you get. And indeed in the 20th century, you get people going to sites like that and engaging in ghost tradition.

[Anthony Delaney]

Ghost hunts always go there. And I think, you know, I mean, we.

[Maddy Pelling]

You haven't been on a ghost hunt until you finish in the pub.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, I know, but like, you and I have. So Maddie and I went, not at the same times to York at university. And if you're walking through York City, that is the ghost pub town capital.

[Maddy Pelling]

Of the world, you can't move for ghost tours.

[Anthony Delaney]

There's so many ghost pubs specifically, like. And it makes. Well, it did for me. It made me want to go into them. I was like, ooh, let's see what happens. And we'll have it nice. And then you're drunk and then, you know, things do happen, but it's probably just you falling over. But York really trades on it and other cities do as well. But it's, you know, York's a really nice little place for your ghostiness if you want to go and visit some of those there. Mary Queen Scott wasn't there though, so forget about that.

[Maddy Pelling]

But plenty of other historical figures were. Tell me this is Mary Queen of Scots to Scotland what Anne Boleyn is to England in terms of ghosts? Because in England, you cannot move for the ghosts of Anne Boleyn, as we've explored previously with wonderful Tracy Borman on this podcast. Is Mary Queen Scots up there in terms of ghostly apparitions? She's popping up left, right and centre by the sounds of.

[Anthony Delaney]

Yeah, she is definitely up there, isn't she? Is she Scotland's Anne Boleyn? I think she's Scotland's Mary Queen of Scots. And that was my transition into politics right there. I think they do a lot of the same. They do a lot of the same work, don't they? You cannot underestimate, though. Let's talk about this. Maybe we cannot underestimate how important Anne Boleyn and Mary Queen of Scots are to the respective spreading of Scottish and English history. In those periods, they are pivotal figures and often wear, oh, God. Not another Anne Boleyn. Oh, my God. Not another Mary Queen of Scots. But if you think about how much those two women have inspired further investigations into history from people who may not be interested in history altogether, blatantly all the time, but they're going, actually there's something about her story or even her ghost that then opens up a wider history. So in that sense, yeah, I do think there's a comparison between the two of them. What do you think?

[Maddy Pelling]

I agree.

[Anthony Delaney]

Thanks.

[Maddy Pelling]

The end.

[Anthony Delaney]

The end.

[Maddy Pelling]

No, I think that's a perfect place to end, actually, because I think what you're saying is that that is the function of ghosts. It's a way in to think about the past. It's a conversation starter. It's not the be all and end all. I think it's a gateway in to thinking about these histories, thinking about these moments in lives that have been lived and lost and accessing them in some way. It draws people to those places to think about, about the human beings behind those stories and how they would have experienced those places, how they would have felt in those places. You can't get more engaging and more powerful than that.

[Anthony Delaney]

And you know what, as well, just before you do the admin wrapping up bit, people can get a bit sniffy about like paranormal histories or like, you know, that kind of thing where it goes, well, it's not real history. But actually that work is so important to open up those, those gateways that you're talking about. And that's why we do like to concentrate on them here because they do mean something to people. And it's. There's no point of being snobbish about history. It's a starting point. Sometimes these ghosts and the ghost of Mary Queen of Scots. And I think people might have come to this episode going, oh, I'm interested in the ghost of Mary Queen of Scots. And by so doing, they may have learned something about the history of Mary Queen of Scots. So therefore, I'm all for it. Man. Maddie, done. Wrap up.

[Maddy Pelling]

Thank you very much for listening to this episode. Apparently we're finished now. You can leave a five star review wherever you get your podcast and please do, because it helps other people to find the show to understand how much you're enjoying it. Do spread the word. If you're watching this on YouTube, don't forget to like and subscribe. Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to have strong opinions about sand. We were made to help you and your friends find a place on the beach with a pool and a marina and a waterfall and a soaking tub.

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[Maddy Pelling]

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[Anthony Delaney]

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