Who Was Medieval Europe's Most Evil Monarch?

Summary

After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal

Episode Title: Who Was Medieval Europe's Most Evil Monarch?
Host: History Hit
Date: November 27, 2025
Guests: Anthony Delaney, Maddy Pelling, Eleanor Yanaga

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Episode Overview

In this episode, hosts Anthony Delaney and Maddy Pelling delve into the dark side of medieval European monarchy to answer a ghoulish question: Who was the most evil medieval monarch? With historian and “Gone Medieval” host Eleanor Yanaga as their guest, they explore the notorious reigns of Vlad the Impaler, Pedro the Cruel, Isabella the “She Wolf” of France, and Richard the Lionheart. Through vivid stories, heart-stopping legends, and controversial scores, the team debates which ruler truly stands out as the vilest of them all. The episode is darkly witty, irreverent, and loaded with juicy historical tidbits.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Contenders: Setting the Scene

• The hosts and Yanaga set out to evaluate four infamous monarchs—Pedro the Cruel, Richard the Lionheart, Isabella the She Wolf of France, and Vlad the Impaler—for their misdeeds and legacies.
• Eleanor Yanaga highlights that being the "worst" monarch can mean anything from being a "total psychopath and serial killer" to being a cunning, vindictive schemer. (04:52)

Notable Quote:

• "There's a lot of different ways to be a dickhead when it's gonna come to medieval monarchy."
  — Eleanor Yanaga (05:28)

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2. Pedro the Cruel: Revenge, Romance, and Cadaver Queens (05:41–15:58)

• Background: Pedro I of Portugal, aka Pedro the Cruel, is introduced as a lesser-known but suitably dramatic figure. His infamous vendettas and personal revenge set him apart.
• Romantic Drama: Married for political alliance to Blanche of Bourbon, Pedro instead becomes obsessed with Ines, a lady-in-waiting. When his father has Ines murdered—possibly with the involvement of Pedro's half-brother—Pedro's rage is unleashed.
• Revenge: Upon becoming king, Pedro exacts bloody revenge by allegedly tearing out the hearts of Ines' murderers with his own hands. Whether this is fact or chronicler's embellishment is debated, but the symbolism remains powerful.
• Gothic Legend: Chroniclers claim Pedro had Ines’ body exhumed, crowned, and forced the court to pay homage. Yanaga notes it's probably untrue but indicative of his reputation.
• Reflection: The group reflects that, although Pedro’s vengeance was horrific, his violence stemmed from grief and personal vendetta, giving him a twisted romantic edge rather than pure villainy. His gestures were both poetic and macabre.

Memorable Quotes:

• "He does kind of like straight up serial killer violence, you know, but it is revenge, you know...it's giving Mandy, right?"
  — Eleanor Yanaga (14:32)
• "If I die and someone doesn't cut out someone else's heart for me, I'm not interested. Like 100%. I'm on board."
  — Host 1 (52:22)

Timestamps:

• Political backdrop & family drama: 05:45–10:34
• Legendary revenge and aftermath: 10:34–15:58

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3. Richard the Lionheart: Crusader, Tax-Leech, and Assassin Hireling (16:12–25:31)

• Decorated Reputation: Known as a heroic English monarch, Richard’s legacy is sharply challenged by Yanaga, who calls him "the Wario of Pedro the Cruel."
• Absentee King: Richard barely visits England (only four times), doesn’t speak English, and views the realm as a “bank account” to finance his war efforts.
• Oppressive Taxes: He institutes the “Saladin Tithe,” an oppressive tax (25% of all property) to fund his crusades, sells public offices, and plunders the populace.
• Crusade Atrocities: On the Third Crusade, Richard besieges Christian kingdoms en route, executes (possibly 2,700+) Muslim prisoners at Acre, and is widely suspected of orchestrating the assassination of Conrad, King of Jerusalem.
• Europe-Wide Infamy: Detained in Europe upon his return, his ransom nearly bankrupts England. He is generally despised on the continent.
• Legacy Debunked: Richard is idolized in later English legends only as an absentee; his myth grows precisely because of his absence and the nation’s subsequent longing.

Memorable Quotes:

• "He does not care about this country at all whatsoever... He’s got no interest in England as anything other than a bank account."
  — Eleanor Yanaga (17:02)
• "The only good thing about Richard the Lionheart is his at least bisexuality... a flexible king, very close with his boys, et cetera."
  — Eleanor Yanaga (17:27)
• "His mom, like, basically bankrupts the country, gets all this money out. They let him out. People hate Richard so much that when he's let out...he writes...'the devil is loose. Look to yourself.' "
  — Eleanor Yanaga (24:33)

Timestamps:

• Deconstructing the myth: 16:12–20:53
• Crusade atrocities & European view: 20:53–25:31

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4. Isabella the She-Wolf of France: Queen, Usurper, Survivor (29:05–36:40)

• Introduction: Isabella is framed as messy but fascinating—a French princess who marries Edward II of England.
• Marital Turmoil: Edward II’s open favoritism for his male lovers leads Isabella to political exile and eventual rebellion, aided by her own lover, Roger Mortimer.
• Coup and Retribution: Isabella together with Mortimer overthrows Edward II. The king is either murdered or conveniently dies in prison; legends of a red-hot poker are likely symbolic.
• Ruling with Her Lover: Isabella effectively rules England with Mortimer until her son, Edward III, takes over, executing Mortimer and sending Isabella into comfortable semi-exile.
• Schemer and Powerbroker: Isabella’s scheming embroils her in scandal, including the infamous “Tour de Nesle” affair, indicting sisters-in-law of adultery, which has major dynastic consequences.
• Legend and Legacy: Known as the “She Wolf” in her own lifetime, her notoriety was immediate. Despite her ruthless actions, she lived out her days in luxury and maintained a complex relationship with her son.

Memorable Quotes:

• "Isabella, the She Wolf of France—you know, they're trying to say it as like brackets. Derogatory. I'm like brackets. Positive."
  — Eleanor Yanaga (29:23)
• "I love her because...she notices everything. She's incredibly smart. And she will call you out. Right. And I love that for her."
  — Eleanor Yanaga (35:50)

Timestamps:

• Isabella’s background and takeover: 29:05–33:13
• The Tour de Nesle Affair: 34:23–35:05
• Marks out of 10 and historical consequences: 36:40–37:32

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5. Vlad the Impaler: Horror & National Hero (37:32–49:17)

• Bloody Infamy: Vlad, Prince of Wallachia, is the archetype of brutality; impaling thousands on stakes and terrorizing the region.
• War on All Sides: He slaughtered local German (Saxon) settlers as well as Ottoman envoys, sometimes using their deaths to send horrifying political messages. His reign was marked by betrayal and shifting alliances.
• Innovation in Fear: Impalement was not standard practice; Vlad popularized it as a unique form of terror, often publicly displayed.
• Transgressive Atrocities: He is accused in legend of massacring beggars and even his own people, transcending the accepted, brutal norms of medieval warfare.
• Monstrous Legacy: Despite (or because of) these atrocities, Vlad remains a folk hero in modern Romania for defending his land from foreign control. European contemporaries, however, saw him as beyond the pale.
• From Vlad to Dracula: Vlad’s reputation would be cemented and mythologized by Bram Stoker’s “Dracula”—a literary transformation that, while loosely based on the real figure, ensured historical immortality.

Memorable Quotes:

• "He’s an innovator...he really is able to, like, go for it with these guys."
  — Eleanor Yanaga on impalement (41:06)
• "The idea here is that these guys might have been alive. It's a real slow one."
  — Eleanor Yanaga on impalement (42:16)
• "Ask anyone else in Europe and they're like, that man is a monster. He's an awful person. And I think that we don't talk about it enough. So yeah, screw that guy."
  — Eleanor Yanaga on Richard, letting Vlad win (25:30)

Timestamps:

• Atrocities and impalement: 37:32–44:31
• Myths about beggars and breaking the king’s moral code: 45:12–47:48
• Vlad in literature and history: 49:17–51:06

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Final Rankings & Reflections (51:41–53:28)

Eleanor Yanaga’s Final Ranking:

1. Vlad the Impaler (most evil due to sheer body count and inventive cruelty)
2. Richard the Lionheart (“statistically and spiritually, a true villain”)
3. Isabella (brutal but less bloody)
4. Pedro the Cruel (his misdeeds most “romantic” and personal)

Hosts agree: Vlad tops the list as the worst, though Richard is a close second in their loathing. Isabella is a messy but fascinating power-player, while Pedro’s crimes read more as operatic tragedy.

Memorable Finale Quotes:

• "I think that we have to go with Vlad. I want it to be Richard just because I hate him so much. But I think the kill count is just too high."
  — Eleanor Yanaga (51:48)
• "If I die and someone doesn't cut out someone else's heart for me, I'm not interested. Like 100%. I'm on board."
  — Host 1 (52:22)

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Notable and Amusing Moments

• Hosts' Lively Banter: The episode is full of playful asides, hyperbolic sympathy for Pedro, exasperation with Richard, and outright admiration for Isabella's scheming.
• Team Pedro’s Heart-Tearing Fandom: Several times, the hosts (especially Host 1) gleefully support Pedro’s violent romantic revenge as justifiable.
• Red-Hot Poker Lore: The myth of Edward II’s demise by red-hot poker is dissected for its symbolism and its gruesome place in the medieval imagination.
• Hosts’ Scores and Fantasies: The team scores each monarch on an “evil” scale, and imagines themselves in similar positions, with tongue-in-cheek asides about personal revenge and relationship standards.

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Timestamps for Main Segments

• Pedro the Cruel: 05:41–15:58
• Richard the Lionheart: 16:12–25:31
• Isabella, She-Wolf of France: 29:05–37:32
• Vlad the Impaler: 37:32–51:41
• Final Rankings & Reflections: 51:41–53:28

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Overall Tone and Takeaway

The episode is wickedly funny, irreverent, and thoroughly researched. Hosts combine grisly medieval lore with modern sensibilities, questioning not only why these monarchs behaved as they did, but why we are still fascinated by their legends. Eleanor Yanaga’s insightful, often hilarious commentary anchors the show, and her perspective reframes familiar histories, debunking myths and revealing new angles on villainy.

Who was the most evil monarch?
Vlad the Impaler emerges as the undisputed "champion" for his unprecedented cruelty and kill count, but all four leave an indelible (if unnerving) mark on European history.

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Event details, ad reads, and outros have been omitted to focus on historical content.

Transcript

[Host 1]

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[Eleanor Yanaga]

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[Host 2]

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[Eleanor Yanaga]

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[Host 2]

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[Eleanor Yanaga]

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[Host 1]

A medieval peasant is out in the field, hoe in hand. They look up and see a cloud of dust coming along the road towards them. What's this? The dust cloud turns into a line of horsemen and soldiers, banners flying. Oh dear. They recognize the banner. A fiery red dragon with mouth gaping wide and a cross emblazoned on its back. In the middle of the small army is a figure hard to ignore. They gesture at the peasant. Oh dear, oh dear. This is very bad news indeed for our particular peasant. It is the very worst monarch in medieval history and they do not look pleased.

[Host 2]

Who was the most evil medieval monarch? These were some of the biggest Scumbags in history. Total psychopaths and serial killers. Scheming, lying, and ruling over massive kingdoms and wealth. Vlad the Impaler. Pedro the Cruel. Isabella the she wolf of France. For centuries, from the Atlantic to the Holy Land, European rulers broke every moral and social craft code. But who was the worst of the lot? Today, we are joined by historian and host of the Gone Medieval podcast, Eleanor Yanaga, to answer that very question. Welcome to After Dark.

[Host 1]

Now, history tells us that there are a lot of conniving scumbags who've worn crowns, and we're going to meet a few of them today. Our guest is, I think, possibly the only person who we could have on for this. It's Dr. Elena Jarniger back again.

[Host 2]

Hello. Hello.

[Host 1]

We love to see it. Now, Eleanor, if you don't know, first of all, are you on Dry Rock? What's going on?

[Host 2]

I thought she said, are you on dry Rot.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

That's right, girl. Get on that dry rot.

[Host 1]

If you're not like, what are you doing? Ellen is for anyone who doesn't know, host of our sister podcast from history here, Gone Medieval alongside the brilliant Matt Lewis. And she's the star of a lot of history hit documentaries. Right. You have racked them up, girl.

[Host 2]

Yeah. In luxurious locations. We go to Yorkshire, she goes to Avignon.

[Host 1]

Yeah. We've been really whining about this today. Ellen is latest medieval apocalypse. Out now.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Out now.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah. It's a cracker. Go and watch it. You've picked a smorgasbord of awful monarchs for us today, and we're gonna go through the list and then we're gonna announce a winner. We're gonna crown a winner of the worst ever monarch. But first of all, don't give us any names, but give us a sense of just how awful some of these people are gonna be today.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay, so we have rulers who are pursuing their own vendettas, which may or may not end up invol people's hearts out. We have rulers who are doing things like just getting kind of bored of this whole prisoner thing and killing everybody. We have got rulers who are also. Ooh, it's gonna give the game away. Impaling rather a lot of people.

[Host 2]

Oh, I. We know who that's.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

What do you want me to do? What do you want me to do?

[Host 1]

Okay, this is Richard iii, right? Surely so, yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

There's like a lot of different ways to be a dickhead when it's gonna.

[Host 2]

Title of this episode.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

A lot of. To be a dickhead. Different ways in history to be a dickhead. Right, okay. So I'm going to start with one of them. Now we're going to name and shame.

[Host 1]

What is the dickhead?

[Host 2]

One of the dickheads. The first being. I've never heard of this person. Like, this is my first encounter. Pedro the Cruel.

[Host 1]

Is this nominative determinism? Yeah, I know, right?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

It's like, Pedro the Cruel. He's warned. They're like, what shall we call him? Pedro the Cruel.

[Host 1]

I am looking for baby names currently, so put it on the list.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, absolutely. So he is a Portuguese, and he is also known as Pedro the First in Portugal. And so this is one of the reasons why you kind of don't hear about him up here. We have a tendency to sort of ignore Iberian history for one reason or another. But homeboy seems to be like. He's just like one of these, like, classic kings, right? Where it's like he decides that what he's going to do with his reign is, like, get back at everyone that he thinks has wronged him.

[Host 2]

I'm afraid that might be me if.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Ever I was a king. 100%, you know, like, who can blame him?

[Host 2]

Like, bitches, buckle up, because this is gonna look bad.

[Host 1]

You'd have your burn book going through it.

[Host 2]

Like, all those boys from secondary school, they're gonna be in for it now. No jokes.

[Host 1]

Go on.

[Host 2]

Sorry.

[Host 1]

Name names.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So, yeah, basically there's a lot going on down at the court in Portugal, and a lot of all of this kind of hinges on infidelity, right? So because what is happening is, like, at a point in time, Pedro's sister is supposed to be married off to the crown of Castile. The king of Castile is kind of like, not interested in his sister. He's got, like, a mistress, so of like, comes back in infamy, and then they're like, castile, you know, his dad has a mistress, Lenore, and Pedro doesn't like that. Then Pedro celebrates by going and getting his own mistress. And so there are. There's like, just a lot going on. Right, okay. So everyone's feelings are hurt, essentially.

[Host 2]

Oh, my God, that's amazing.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Everyone's feelings are hurt. Everyone's feelings are hurt. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, you know, ordinarily one simply has one's mistresses when one is royalty, right? Like, that is something that you can do. And what Pedro has done is he gets married off to the daughter of the Duke of Bourbon, and her name is Blanche, which was rather the style at the time. And so this is an incredibly important match you know, Portugal is always really kind of worried about Castile possibly coming and eating them. You know, they want to make sure that they are an independent kingdom. And the Dukes of Bourbon are incredibly wealthy, so this is, like, a really, really good match. Trouble with this is that Pedro's not that interested in Blanche, and he instead has a girlfriend named Ines.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And Ines came along with Blanche to court and is one of her ladies in waiting. And Pedro is basically like, oh, hell, yeah, I like this. And they take up with each other. Pedro's dad, not a huge fan of this. He's like, homie, like, you can't be mad. We can't be mad at Casteel who sent your sister back. And then you're doing the same thing over here. And Pedro's like, I think we'll find we can.

[Host 2]

I'm gonna do it nonetheless.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. And so they're like, we are separating you from your girlfriend. And Pedro's like, I am leaping. And, like, he storms out after Ines. You know, it depends on who you ask. Pedro claims that they get married in, like, secret against him in Es.

[Host 2]

And he do.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Like, by this time, like, poor Blanche, Rip has died in childbirth.

[Host 2]

Oh, she's gone.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, she. It's the style of the time, right?

[Host 2]

She's a supporting character.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Like, marginal. Okay.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And so, like, ordinarily, then, you know, Pedro's like, okay, well, great. This clears the way for me to marry the chick I've been banging the whole time. And his dad is like, no, because, like, you are a prince, and I. You are going to get married off to a princess. You're going to get married off to someone powerful. Not a lady in waiting. And Pedro's like, gonna go marry my girlfriend. Bye. And it depends on who you ask.

[Host 1]

Some people say, good for Pedro. Do you know, like, I have a.

[Host 2]

Feeling we probably shouldn't be on his side. I don't know where this is going.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So basically, what happens is he said he claims that he went and married Ines one way or another. They're kind of like, you know, maybe they're living in sin. Other people are like, he's definitely not married, but obviously this is one of these, like he said, she said. And it's difficult to know because obviously Pedro is gonna say they got married, right? Like, in order to stop everything. And obviously his dad is gonna be like, the hell you did. Right? Because he's wanting to still kind of, like, keep this alive. Pedro's dad decides to solve this by having Ines murdered.

[Host 2]

So still Kind of team Pedro, then.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

The dad is the villain.

[Host 1]

The dad is the villain.

[Host 2]

Okay, so far.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Now, one of the people who murdered Inez is Pedro's half brother.

[Host 2]

Wait, One of the people that murdered Inez is Pedro's half brother.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. Yeah. There's like, three dudes who kill her, right? And basically, Pedro freaks out, as one does, and he starts an open revolt against his father. Now, I don't have a problem with this. I'm like, you know, treat yourself, homeboy. That seems fine to me.

[Host 2]

I'm my wife.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So he loses. Pedro does. And so he has to capitulate to his dad. He gets brought before the court, and he's like, yeah, sorry, dad definitely didn't mean Turabelle against you. I'll never do it again. Blah, blah, blah. And his dad is like, okay, yeah, fine. Like, we'll marry you after, princess. It'll all be fine. And then his dad kicks the bucket three months later, circumstances vaguely mysterious. Like, who knows? Like, it could just be, you know, like, I'm gonna be real with you. It's the middle Ages. He might have just got a cold.

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Like, I don't know. Right?

[Host 2]

So either way, dead.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Either way, he's dead. And so Pedro's like, for my first act, I'm going to ARR. Everyone who killed my wife, including I'm still his sight.

[Host 2]

Fair enough.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And that would be fine. I think that would be fine. It is alleged that two of the individuals, one kind of gets away are then brought to Pedro, and he decides that he's going to kill them himself. And that in order to do this, the way that he decides to kill them is he cuts their chests open and tears their hearts out.

[Host 1]

Now, do you know what? I'm still team Pedro.

[Host 2]

Honestly, I might be okay with this.

[Host 1]

Do it for love, King. Like, I might be okay with this. I'm on board with it. Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So, like, he tears their hearts out, and he's like, this is what you did to me. Yeah. And so, like. And so this is where things get weird, right? People report on this. He definitely killed these guys, like, one way or another. Whether or not he tore their hearts out, we don't have a way of knowing. I'm going with it. Cause it's poetic. We love, right? But we learn all about this through varying chronicles. And chronicles are usually, like, you know, basically some rich guy pays a guy off to write the history of it. Right?

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

What is said at this point in time in the Chronicle, I do not believe that this happened. But they say that for his next trick, Pedro then goes and has Inez's body exhumed and that he puts her on the throne and puts a little crown on her head and says, everyone, come worship your queen. Like come and come and like kiss her hand and like makes everyone like line up.

[Host 2]

That's not romantic. Don't. Yeah, he dug up her body and put her on the throne, but he's.

[Host 1]

Obviously not well and he loved her so much and he's heartbroken.

[Host 2]

I'm not well, but I'm not going to go and dig up my granny, am I?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

This is like getting dangerous into. Actually, I love the cadaver sign out.

[Host 1]

But like, he may have crossed over. But you know what? It's still, it's still not romantic.

[Host 2]

That is ghoulish though.

[Host 1]

It's very.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, he put a crown on her head and then he's like, kiss her, kiss her. To like, everyone.

[Host 1]

So people at the court are like, okay, okay, yeah, I guess we're doing.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

This and like, obviously, like we're dealing with a guy who is cutting hearts out, apparently. So allegedly they did it. Now, I don't think that that necessarily happened. Great story. Telling the story. Don't think it happened. Which one?

[Host 2]

The cadaver on the throne.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

The cadaver on the throne story. Yeah, I know, but you know, it tells us a lot about what people think about him and kind of his single minded determination. What he definitely does do is he does exhume her body and he creates a couple of like very grand tombs for her and he has her like brought alongside so that she can be thought of as the former queen. And I think that's kind of sweet. He dies kind of soon after this and he has like this super grand tomb made so that they are like buried next to each other and facing each other so that at the resurrection.

[Host 1]

The first in team Pedro Hill.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I know, right? So it's like, oh, so now you guys can't be wife guys. I see how it is. And so they are supposed to see each other first when they rise for the last judgment at the end of. And it says on the tomb until the end of the world.

[Host 1]

Oh, I know.

[Host 2]

Here, listen. He gets a solid 8 out of 10 for me in a positive way. I think. I see. I think it's spin, right? The cruel thing is spin from another reign and another. Whatever.

[Host 1]

I'd cut someone's heart if they killed my husband.

[Host 2]

I mightn't go that far. Like, I do like Shane an awful lot.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

But listen, I support you both you.

[Host 1]

Need Shane to help you with the practicality. He said he'd be dead so he wouldn't be able to look.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Right.

[Host 1]

I can't.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I don't have time to be doing that. Who has time for revenge in all this? So, yeah, it is one of these.

[Host 1]

I am 100% on board with Pedro.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So basically, what we really see from the story of Pedro, though, is that certainly he does kind of like straight up serial killer violence, you know, but it is revenge, you know, And I mean, it's giving Mandy, right, like, shout out to fairly obscure Nicolas Cage movies. But, you know, I think that what it definitely tells us a lot about is how the nobility and royalty usually comport themselves. And it's like you can kind of do horrible things, but you're not supposed to take it personally. It's very odd. So it sort of like, just tells us how there's a lot of, like, weird violence going on at the noble rank.

[Host 1]

Ordinarily, could we read it as. It's kind of like a corruption of the chivalric tradition, Right. Of like, kind of being honorable and treating women in a certain way and putting them on a pedestal. And this is kind of like this has gone tits up.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. I mean, because the thing is, within the courtly love tradition, it's totally normal to have a girlfriend because no one gets married because they love each other. But you're supposed to keep it on the down low. It's supposed to be something that you're doing over there that you don't make everyone's.

[Host 1]

You don't necessarily cut people's hearts out.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, you don't cut people's hearts out. You love your girlfriend, but you don't try to turn her into your wife. And indeed, a lot of the time, the office of marriage is seen as antithetical to romance. So he's kind of like subverting the normal way that we would think about.

[Host 1]

Romance and marriage film about him.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Because there ought to be.

[Host 1]

I'm on board. I want to make this. I really fancy him.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

There you go. I'm sure that the Portuguese spiraled.

[Host 2]

That is spiraling from so far.

[Host 1]

I'm doing Team Pedro.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Listen, I'm doing bad. It's like, I've come on and I've been like, do you like them?

[Host 2]

I'm like, what's going on here today?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Really good.

[Host 2]

We are about to discuss a figure that everybody loves. We can hear you in the comments now. It's fine. It's just interpretation. You'll survive. That said, Richard the Lionheart okay.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

This fucking guy. Listen, listen. He's the Wario of Pedro the Cruel. Right? Okay. Like absolutely opposite. Absolutely opposite. Right. And everyone is all like, aw, Richard the Lionheart. Really great guy. Yeah. Cause he wasn't here.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So you can just turn him into anything that you want.

[Host 1]

In my head, he is the literal lion in the Disney movies.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, everyone our age just grew up with like the sexy fox, Robin Hood, which was very confusing. And then he shows up as like a lion at the end and everything gets better.

[Host 1]

Yeah. The thing that is the extent of my historical knowledge.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Right?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay. So the thing that we've got to understand about him is like, he does not care about this country at all whatsoever. Right. It's like he's got no interest in England as anything other than a bank account.

[Host 1]

Which is, which is so interesting because today he's so evoked in right wing circles and you know, is such a kind of stalwart of English values and blah, blah. And he wasn't even here.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

He came here like four times. Homeboy did not speak English. Right?

[Host 1]

Like really?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

No. He speaks French and he speaks Occitan. This is the Frenchest guy who ever done did French. And he becomes the King of England, essentially. He's like, like, awesome. Because what I am going to do is I'm going to treat England like a bank account and I am just going to take all of this money and I'm going to go fight Saladin Nohomo. Let's also be clear. The only good thing about Richard the Lionheart is his at least bisexuality. Like, you know, a flexible king, very close with his boys, et cetera. So you know what he does when he becomes king? He's like, great, now I'm going to go on crusade. And he establishes what is called a Saladin tithe here. And so he taxes everyone. There's this incredibly oppressive tax. Every single person who owns any property at all whatsoever has to pay 25% of it so that he can go on his little crusade.

[Host 1]

This is so interesting to me because the only thing that I know about this period is that his brother, his half brother John is meant to be the king that taxes the crap out of everybody. And actually Rich is doing that already.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, it's like 100% like, you know, the, know the rules. HR comment. It was like where he's like, big tax. Everyone's like, oh, you're so sweet. And when John does it, they're like, hello, H.R. yeah, you know, so it's like. And it's because he. He puts this incredible tax on them. And then one of the other things that he does is he actually sells a bunch of public offices where he's literally like, oh, hey, whom. Whom wants this? I will sell it to you. Like, give me money. And, like, you can pay.

[Host 1]

And was that done in this period? This is a new thing that he's Jesus Christ.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

No, like. And I like, okay. And far be it for me to be like, oh, actually, like, really? Hereditary ways of passing things down is a way to do it.

[Host 1]

Exposing yourself here.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I know, but it's like, you shouldn't also, like, be able to sell.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

You know, varying offices like that. That is not the one, in my opinion. So he imposes these incredibly brutal taxes and then is like, peace. And, like, he is on his way to the Holy Land. On the way to the Holy Land, after he's fleeced everyone, like, in the country, he first stops off down in Sicily immediately, like, besieges a bunch of. Kills a bunch of people because he's like, I don't know. I'm bored.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Host 2]

This is what kings do.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. I just think that, like, my nephew should actually be, like, the Duke of Messina. So. And everyone's like, wow, that's interesting. Right. And then he eventually, like, they eventually get him on a boat. Right. It was like, ordinarily, when one goes on crusade, one does not besiege several Christian kingdoms on the way. But, you know, Richard's built different. He gets over to the Holy Land and he lands at Acre. And this is still kind of like a very. It had just kind of fallen to Saladin and they managed to take it back. He apparently has, like, the equivalent of what we think might be scurvy now at the time. And he's, like, sitting on, like, a bed, being moved around, and he's, like, shooting people with crossbows. And I'm just like, I hate it. I hate it. So eventually, they take back over the city. That would be good. He, though, is worried that they are going to get stuck in Ankara. He wants to go take over Jerusalem. And he's got about 2,700 prisoners, Muslim prisoners, and he's kind of like, using them as leverage against saladin being, like, 700.

[Host 1]

I mean, that's. What's the management of that? Like, how. How is that working?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Well, eventually the management isn't particularly great because since he gets worried that he's going to get stuck there, he just kills them. All.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

He just kills, like, almost 3,000 thought.

[Host 1]

Through the management of.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. And he's like, a bunch of women and children, whatever. Like, I guess that we will just, like, kill. Like, they should not have been living in that city, I guess, which is not a normal thing to do. People don't ordinarily just kill the entire population. Okay, I'm hearing you.

[Host 2]

I just.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So then they're all like, okay, that's it. We're gonna go take Jerusalem back from Saladin. Like a go. Christians go. Or whatever. And then, like, on the way, like, everybody is like, oh, it's so gonna happen. Babe, Babe, we are gonna take back Jerusalem. And so they're like, we're gonna. We're gonna elect a new king of Jerusalem. And. And he's like, really?

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Who is getting elected?

[Host 1]

Set his crossbow to one side.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

The answer is a guy called Conrad. Conrad gets elected, and Richard takes this poorly. And a few weeks later, Conrad is then killed by an assassin. Oh, and when I say assassin, I mean, like, one of the OG Original Hashashins, like, you know, trained by, like, the old man of the mountain. And Richard's life, like, wow, that's crazy.

[Host 2]

Who would.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Literally everyone is like, so it was Richard, right? Like, Richard paid for this. Like, all of the Christians are like, this guy is out of control. Like, he 100% has killed Conrad. And everyone is like, dude, what? And Richard's like, anyway, that's crazy. I got to go. And he, like, basically takes off after that, and everyone is like, what? Like, what just happened? People are not happy with him, right? And so basically, by the time he shows back up in Europe, he gets arrested almost right away by one of the Holy Roman imperial dukes, Leopold, who's like, remember how you killed Conrad, my cousin? I hate this. Right? And he puts him under house arrest. Now, there is some back and forth about whether or not you should be allowed to do that. The Pope is like, you're being very bad, Leopold. Let him go. And Leopold is like, yeah, well, I'll let him go by sending him to the Holy Roman Emperor. And the Holy Roman Emperor is like, I hate you. You suck. And send the Holy Roman Emperor has him, like, locked up. So meanwhile, then everybody's gotta, like, ransom him out. And the Holy Roman Empire's giving it, like, $100 billion. And basically, he asks for so much money that it is like, the yearly revenue of England three times over.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow.

[Host 2]

The yearly revenue of England three times over. So he isn't coming back.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, well, except for Eleanor of Aquitaine is a real one. So it's like, Eleanor of Aquitaine is like, my Fail, son. Like, Richard's Eleanor's favorite. He's like a real mama's boy, you know? And so she's like, okay, I'll make it work. She goes around again, puts, like, huge taxes on everyone to go get, like, her wastrel son out of prison. So, like, basically bankrupts the kingdom again.

[Host 1]

And what is the feeling on the ground in England at this time?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So in England, they're like, someone must get the king. Oh, the king, because he's not there. So you can, like, make any legend you want up about him. It's like. It's this vacuum that allows you to be like, damn. Well, I know our life sucks right now, but if the king just came back, okay, you know, like, that thing. It's this John who's bad. It's, like, based on what, homie? Like, I mean, like, the incredible ruling that you had under Richard. He doesn't care about you. Like, he has no interest in this at all whatsoever. So, like, his mom, like, basically bankrupts the country, gets all this money out. They let him out. And people hate Richard so much that when he's let out by the Holy Roman Emperor, like, he writes and he's like, by the way, like, to varying people that he's let out, and he's like, the devil is loose. Look to yourself.

[Host 1]

Ooh, Sigmund.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That's actually giving me chills. Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Where they're like, this is not someone that people like. This is a mass murderer who hires assassins to kill people that he doesn't like, who is, like, personally pretty disagreeable, like, was just being an asshole the entire time while he was, like, under arrest by the Holy Roman Emperor and being like, I'm actually much more important than you. And the Holy Roman Emperor is like, I am literally the emperor.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I can hear Russell Crowe going, like.

[Host 1]

The devil is loose and then singing a ditty.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, exactly. 100%. Like, so eventually, like, he does get let out, and then, like, I cannot stress how much he does not come back to England. Like, he's like, he doesn't care at all. Like, he just ends up getting, like, embroiled in a bunch of. Of wars with France, like, building a really big castle there that he really likes and just kind of, like, hanging out there because he does not care about England. He does not want to come back to England, and he never does come back to England.

[Host 2]

But does he care about England?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

No. Oh, okay. And then when he's, like, when he dies, eventually, like, he just gets killed by, like, some 14 year old with a crossbow who has a lucky shot because like also he's like, he simply cannot stop besieging people in France. It's like this is his downfall and he has some of his viscera buried in Rouen and the rest of him is at Fontevre Abbey where his dad is buried and where his mother will eventually be abbey. Like he does so disinterested in England that like none of his body even comes here even comes. So it's just like the entire legend about him being a good king or being particularly righteous is just because he's not around to piss you off. So you can say anything that you want about it. Ask anyone else in Europe and they're like, that man is a monster. He's an awful person. And I think that we don't know talk about it enough. So yeah, screw that guy.

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[Eleanor Yanaga]

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[Host 2]

Yeah.

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[Eleanor Yanaga]

Oh, okay, yeah, okay. So she's like my fave. She's such a messy. She is so messy. And like, this is really, this is really one of those like where you have to steal yourself. So Isabella, the she wolf of France, you know, they're trying to say it as like brackets. Derogatory. I'm like brackets. Positive.

[Host 2]

Yeah. No, right.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And so Isabella was a French princess and she marries into the English crown as one does. So she is married to Edward ii. Now Edward ii, another one of our noted gay kings. And we love him. And you know, initially when she comes onto the throne, he's got one boyfriend and she's like, I can make this work. I don't really care. I'm like 12 anyway, so like, who cares?

[Host 1]

That's fantastic.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Great, great. Like, leave me alone. Love it. This boyfriend dies, we get a new boyfriend on the scene, a new boyfriend we should not be getting on. And Edward II is all like, I like to give my boyfriend other people's land. This goes really wrong. He eventually ends up giving some of Isabella's dowry lands to his boyfriend. And Isabella is like, no, I think the fuck not. Right? So she gets sent back to Paris. She's like, goodbye, you will not be finding me here. But also like, Edward was like so busy, like making out with his boyfriend that he sort of didn't notice that Isabella also took Edward III along with him. So, like, she's got the heir. Stupidest move that you could. Like, you definitely need to kidnap your son at this point in time. And like, but no. So whilst at the French court, she then gets in with a bunch of other English people who are in exile, right? Because the lands get taken from varying people in order to give it to the boyfriend. And so they're like, well, I don't have any land, so I guess I'm just gonna Go dick around at the French zone. And you know, like, the French simply love to, like irritate the English anyway, so they're like, okay, great, like, why don't you come hang out here?

[Host 1]

So basically, Edward has created a whole community of enemies that his wife is not run to.

[Host 2]

Great move for him to do that.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Nobody said he was smart, okay? Right. Like, so eventually one of the people that Isabella meets is this guy called Roger Mortimer. Now some people say that Roger's just like one of the guys who's in exile and he happens to be like a, you know, a pretty good military tactician. Other people say that Isabella is shagging Roger so hard. I like to believe the latter because I just think it's fun and cool. And I also think turnabout is fair play. You don't have to have a boyfriend. Why can't she have a boyfriend? This is equality, okay? And so eventually they end up coming back to England and they take over the kingdom so fast. Like, it's embarrassing. Like, everybody is kind of fleeing west. They kind of land over in Norfolk and they just go across the country. Eventually they catch up with Edward in Wales. Boyfriend gets killed, Edward dies. Okay. We don't exactly know how. It could just be that he's imprisoned. And it's pretty easy to die when you are in prison in some indignity. If you were just in a dungeon, yeah, you'll die pretty quickly. There are rumors that he is killed by a red hot. A red hot poker up the bum. I don't think that that is likely. I think that that's one of those things that medieval people say in order to.

[Host 2]

In order to indicate his same sex attraction.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

It's not necessarily a real thing, but it's showing.

[Host 1]

And it's sort of like violent irony of like, huh, look what happened.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Exactly. Yeah, it's like, you know, ironic punishment division. It's something that you would see really commonly in hell frescoes. When you are talking about, like sodomites are in hell, this is the sort of thing. So it's probably more of like a motif, right? But one way or another, he dies. And so Isabelle is like, sweet, I'm the queen now. Because Edward III is like a kid, like a tiny kid. And so she's like, I rule the kingdom with my boyfriend. So like, so Roger is kind of sitting there and they're like, woo, woo. So she's taken over the kingdom. I cannot stress how much she has like deposed and killed a king. Right. One way or another. And ruling with her out of Woodlock boyfriend, which is like such a power move. It's absolutely incredible.

[Host 1]

Presumably not a popular one in England.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

No. And you know, the trouble is too, that she's like, well, now that I'm the queen, she's like, yeah, I'm take those lands, thank you very much. So it's like, does she learn very much?

[Host 2]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

No.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And so eventually, when Edward III comes into the majority, one of the first things he does is he basically kills Roger Mortimer. He's like, enough. No, thank. Right away, like, you are beheaded. No, thank you. You're done. And he's like, mom. And she's like, what? And he's like, you are in so much trouble. You are under arrest. And it's like, oh, yeah. What does under arrest mean? It's like, you have to go live at Castle Rising in Norfolk. You can. Here's endless money to do it up so that it's very nice to have fun hunting. And she's like, okay. And she eventually raises the Black Prince. She's like super, super instrumental in the Black Prince's education. And she is really the link to the claim to the French throne that starts off the Hundred Years War. But she's also like a messy, messy queen. I love her because it's like in between all of this, one of the things that she kicks off down in front of is something called the Tour of Nestle Affair. Do you know about this?

[Host 1]

No.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay, so this is so funny. She goes down to a banquet in France and she notices that there's, like, these knights that are wearing these really ornate purses. Where'd they get those purses? Cause Isabella gave those purses to her sisters in law for Christmas.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And she's like, where'd you get those purses, homeboys? And so she's like, oh, I bet you're shagging my sisters in law. She gets them all arrested.

[Host 1]

Stop.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

All her sisters in law are arrested and imprisoned. All the knights are killed. Most of the sisters in law die in prison. And this is what calls into question the legitimacy of the French heir.

[Host 1]

Wow. Okay. So her legacy is huge. And across so many different lines and story plots. Oh, my God.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. She is 100%, like a real master power broker. She really changes things for better or worse. And you know, she is number one the reason why you could say that perhaps we need, like, an English king on the throne. And in the second place, she is like, oh, and by the way, English kings are French. It's all Isabella. And like, she's a real one I'm telling you, I absolutely love her. Cause she's just the worst. It's like, the girl has receipts. She notices everything. She's incredibly smart, and she will call you out. Right. And I love that for her.

[Host 1]

When does she get called the she wolf of France? Is this something that comes later or is this in her own lifetime?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

It's in her own lifetime. They're like this chick. You know, it's a. Just. You take over one kingdom, and it's just like. Okay. And especially after she is forced into retirement, such as it is, it becomes a lot easier to do that.

[Host 1]

So it's a notorious Monica. Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

But, you know, luckily for her, she faces absolutely no consequences in her lifetime. So, you know, I love that, you know, like, Roger faces consequences. She does not. You know, she lives a.

[Host 1]

That is fascinating. And I suppose that talks to the relationship between her and her son Edward.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Host 1]

That he. Okay. He scolds her and is like, you need to go. And.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Like, it's.

[Host 1]

You need to go somewhere else. But he doesn't kill her.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

No. No. So it shows that at the very least, he really does still love her. And he's sort of clear why these things needed to happen. But it's just like, we're done now. Put a line under it.

[Host 1]

Marks out of 10 for Isabella, please. I'm gonna go with the five.

[Host 2]

I was gonna say five.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Oh, okay.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Wow.

[Host 1]

Bad, but can't help but en. A little bit.

[Host 2]

So I like the strategy. It's not the most foolproof strategy, but at least she's strategizing. She's not just laying down, taking it. She is claiming power for herself. I kind of admire that. But it's kind of like she forgot to cross the T's and dot the.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I's a little bit.

[Host 2]

It's like, oh, you could have just. If you had been a tad.

[Host 1]

She learned her lessons along the way.

[Host 2]

But she was, as you say, she was fine. She was comfortable. She was in the castle at the end. You know, she's good.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. It's, you know, real. Sometimes rich people do not face consequences. Ours, you know, which is interesting, because her husband certainly did.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

But, you know, but that was other.

[Host 2]

Rich people imposing consequences on rich people. They get to do it. We don't.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

The next potential worst person in medieval Europe is somebody we know a little. A little bit on this podcast. We've done an episode on him before, and that is our old friend Vlad. Vlad Dracul.

[Host 1]

Friend of the pod.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You know, this is weird in many ways, because you'll say that name and actually a lot of people will have baggage, literary baggage, you know, horror film baggage. And a lot of people think they have a. Through those things, through the graphic novels, through the movies, they think they have a way into the actual history. But sometimes it's even bloody worse than you might have imagined.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, I mean, very little actual blood drinking, probably, but, like, it's not good. No question mark. Let's just put it that way. We're like, we don't know. You know, it is rather the style at the time when you get these particular rulers in this part of the world kind of accuse them of blood.

[Host 1]

Drinking, which will be kind of a trope.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, exactly. But he did enough bad things that I'm kind of like, yeah, help yourself.

[Host 1]

Yeah. You know, we have a woodcut in front of us, and I'm going to describe it before Eleanor tells us anything more. And we have spoken about this image, I think, on the pod before. But this is a medieval woodcut, some black and white, of course. And it is a man who I take to be Vlad, sat at a table eating a feast. He's got a plate of some kind of food in front of him, and around him is a scene of absolute chaos. There's a servant ripping out, I don't know, the entrails from a beheaded torso on the floor. There's discarded hands and feet everywhere. And in the background, which I think is not necessarily conducive to a relaxing meal, is a wall of human beings dead, impaled on wooden spikes.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's occurring, please?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Okay, so our good friend Vlad, he is the Vulvoda, sometimes Vlvoda of Wallachia. It rolls off the tongue. And you've gotta understand that this is kind of part of Transylvania. It's not all Transylvania. Transylvania is a very large area, and at this point in history, where their allegiances lie is questionable. Right. So sometimes they're under the auspices of Hungary and sometimes the Ottomans are taking over. Right. And indeed, Vlad grows up at the Ottoman court. He's like one of those hostages. It's kind of like the Game of Thrones type situation where you, like, have a hostage and they're like, oh, yeah, you know, so we're going to be able to do things this way. When Vlad comes into majority, he begins almost immediately to beef with the Hungarian crown. And as a part of this, he ends up going after the Saxons who live in the area, which is to say, like, they're German speakers, like There's a. It is rather popular in Central Europe to kind of just, like, have some Germans show up and be like, hey, what's up? We run this town, you know, and it's just like, they can't be stopped. They won't be stopped. And so oftentimes you have some Germans show up and just, like, start bossing everybody around. Vlad takes a rather dim view of this, and he feels as though these guys who are oftentimes called Hussars, they are interfering with his ability to run Valachia. He believes. So he decides that he is going to kill them all. And it's not enough to kill them all.

[Host 1]

Very diplomatic.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

He also impales them all on spies.

[Host 1]

Is this a traditional thing to do in this region, or is this a Vlad thing?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Vlad is just, you know, ahead of his time. He's a visionary.

[Host 1]

He's an innovator.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, he's an innovator. And he really. He really is able to, like, go. Go for it with these guys.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And I think that this is an interesting point because he also ends up, at varying points in time, beefing with the Ottomans, which is interesting. He kind of does a bit of a heel turn. Like, he'll. Oh, this boy loves a heel turn. It's like he will turn on the King of Hungary. He will turn on the Ottoman emperor. He will. Don't worry about this. And he will eventually get around to also impaling a couple of ottomans.

[Host 2]

Just a couple.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Because basically, like, the Ottomans are like, oh, yeah, Are you gonna come do homage? Right? And you're gonna, like. And he's like, oh, yeah. And by that, I mean I'm impaling these messengers right now. And the Ottomans are like, what? That is. That is the exact opposite of what I just requested. Right. And oftentimes we kind of get this twisted in a modern sense, and we go, oh, yeah. Well, he, like, impaled a bunch of ottomans.

[Host 1]

Okay. And it sounds like he did, Elena.

[Host 2]

He did.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I mean, he did. Like, I'm gonna be so real. But he impaled more sack. And what's interesting is that all of this killing, like, all of this, like, incredibly brutal killing, you know, because, like, the. The idea here is that these guys might have been alive. So it's just like, a real.

[Host 1]

That's a nice detail.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

It's a real slow one.

[Host 2]

The sounds as they're on, you know, there's groaning, there's. There's crying out. There's.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah. So it's like, so this is torture. And everyone is like, wow, that's really intense. Lesbian. Interestingly, he is a bit of kind of like a Romanian folk hero as a result of all this, because they're like, hell, yeah, I love to kill Germans. They're like, now, now, even now. Because, you know, we've got to understand that Central Europe, and especially this part of Central Europe, is constantly in the process of being taken over by random people, right? So it's like that. You've got a whole bunch of people who kind of like, drive through and they go, oh, like, look. Hi, it's us. It's the Hungarians. No, you not know what we're saying. And we control you now. Hey, what's up? It's us, a bunch of German guys. We are actually in charge of these lands now. And the local Wallachians kind of see all of this as outside interference. And they see Vlad as being more of the rightful ruler of the area. And to an extent, they see him as redressing historic wrongs. Everyone else is like, damn, bitch, you live like this.

[Host 1]

Yeah. What are his motivations? Is this that he is defending his territory and that he is being a good ruler for his people, or does he just have a fetish for sticking people on sticks?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Which one is it Impossible to say? Right. It's very difficult to untangle this particularized knot because certainly he's doing it as a result of attempting to gain greater control over this area 100%. He's not just doing it only for fun, Right. And part of what he is doing is he is going as hard as you possibly can to make an example. Right? So it's like, you don't want to mess with this guy after that. You're like, he did what? Like, excuse me, I would really rather not. You know? And we definitely see, like, him get brought back into the fold of the Hungarians. Like, eventually he loses a couple battles, and then they're like, listen, you're very bad, but we are going to use you to, like, go fight in the Balkans against, like, Ottomans. So he's like one of these characters who really kind of moves around. It's like he'll sor to fight anyone, anywhere, depending on.

[Host 1]

So people harness that vibe that he has.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. So they're like, if I could just like, point that in the direction of my enemies, that would be great. That would be really ideal. But, you know, he ends up killing just lots and lots and lots of people, and a lot of them do happen to be Muslim as well. So, you know, like, a lot of Muslim Bulgarians, for example, end up Dead as a result of our good friend Vlad. And so it really kind of depends on who you're asking, but the fact of the matter is, one way or another, people at the time are like, excuse me, what? Right? Like, this is so beyond the pale of what you would ordinarily do. And certainly this is really antithetical to the way that medieval warfare often works.

[Host 2]

This is what's coming into my head as I listen to you talk about this going, you know, to a certain extent, you kind of go, oh, well, he's potentially regaining ground or he's defending territory or whatever it is. And there's truth in that, I think. But there's also then the rules of warfare, right? And it feeds into a lot of the people we've been talking about today going, are you transgressing the accepted boundaries that we have either silenced or through some kind of a tract or whatever put down to go, this is how we conduct ourselves. This is what's expected within even extreme situations. And if you go beyond that, then you're causing a problem globally. But then if you come back onto kind of a micro level, isn't there something about homeless people or beggars or something, and he brings them for a meal?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah, there's. Yeah, there's this legend where it's like he runs into a bunch of people, beggars, and he's like, oh, it is I, you know, the Count come inside and then he's like, actually killed you? Yeah, like very. Like, it kills them anyway. And this is kind of used to highlight his transgressive nature because, you know, obviously as a ruler, and especially a Christian ruler, like, in theory, you know, he is a Christian and you know, which flavor depends. Originally he's orthodox, but then he's like, force cast, hashtag, kink as a part of this. You have a kind of responsibility to the people who are underneath you. There's a reason why whenever you see a medieval hell fresco, it's full of kings. It's like kings and bishops are the ones who are in hell. And it's because everybody kind of knows that it's immoral to be rich, right? They're like, it is actually bad. You are living off of the actual work of people who are ensurfed, right? It's not good. So you have this moral responsibility that you are supposed to be looking after the poor and the downtrodden. You should be giving to charity. You should be looking after these people.

[Host 1]

And you should not.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

And you should not kill them, even if you think they're kind of annoying. Right. So whether or not that actually happened is dubious. But it's being used as a way of kind of highlighting. And he doesn't have respect for his people people either. Yes. Right. So you know, because it would be one thing to just go, oh yeah, well okay, he does kill a lot of people, but they're Muslims or they're German. And are those people question mark. It's another thing to be like. And he also doesn't even look after his own people. Right. So that's why you would circulate a story like that.

[Host 1]

Foreign. Can I make my sight softer?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

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[Host 2]

Yeah.

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[Eleanor Yanaga]

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[Host 1]

See mint mobile.com. Do you think that we remember him today because of the literary transformation that he undergoes in becoming Dracula? Or is he in his own right a myth?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I think that we would be aware of him without Dracula. I think that like, I mean you've seen that woodblock, you know, like, you know, weirdos like us would find that we would find it, right? We'd be like, oh, who's he? Right? And you know, is enough of a transgression against norms that stories were told about this and everyone was like Jesus, you know, as a result of it. I think that we would have heard about it, but I think that he would be in a little bit more obscurity, right? I think that there are, especially around this early modern turn, you know, when we're getting into the really late medieval period, when we're about to hit the early modern period, there are A bunch of people who just start wild out, which is a technical, historical term. Right. You know, I'm thinking, like, Ferdinand and Isabella kicking off, you know, with the Spanish Inquisition. You know, things like this, where suddenly, like, torturing a bunch of people becomes a lot more acceptable. And it will be a lot more acceptable in the early modern period, because the early modern period is wild. So I think that we would kind of know about him, but he would just be kind of part of this larger pattern. And it is Bram Stoker, you know, one of. One of the. You know, the second most famous Irish person, you know, on a third, because Oscar Wilde as well.

[Host 2]

Fine, I'll take third.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Oscar Wilde.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That's.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

So he really immortalizes him by using these particular names, using these locations in order to flesh out the character of Dracula. Incredible book. I just read it for the first time this summer. Really enjoyed it.

[Host 2]

But you know what's a little bit dis. No, I really like it, too. But you know what's a little bit disappointing? I read the book before I found out about Real Vlad. So I read the book when I was, like, a teenager. But actually, once you learn the history, there's very little. Little?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Like, absolutely nothing. It's like the name and the place.

[Host 1]

Transylvania. Scary, dude.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 2]

And blood. That's kind of about it. But that's quite a lot, I guess.

[Host 1]

Yes. Well, yeah, yeah.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

But, you know, this is one of these things where it's like, you know, the real monster is like, what if English chicks shag a Central European? What if a Central European had money? Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. So it's rather a lot of that going on. Although it was funny, like, Slovaks were catching strays in that book. It's a great disservice to my beautiful culture and heritage. I was like, what did we do? I'm like, okay, but it's.

[Host 2]

Who of the four.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Four.

[Host 2]

Right?

[Host 1]

We've done four. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Of the four that we've talked about, who is your absolute worst? If you had to pick and you do.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I do have to pick. I think that we have to go with Vlad. I want it to be Richard just because I hate him so much. But I think that the kill count is just too high. So his kill is larger than Richard. And I'm just doing this in terms of, like, what are the absolute numbers here? It's where he's. You know, he's statted out the goat in terms of, like, random people that are killed. So I think that for him, it's just Sheer numbers of people who are killed and how horribly it's done. So it's gotta go. I think for me, we're going. Vlad, Richard, Isabella, Pedro.

[Host 1]

See, for me, Pedro shouldn't even be on this list. Like, if I die and someone doesn't cut out someone else's heart for me, I'm not interested. Like 100%. I'm on board.

[Host 2]

Thank God you don't have to date and that you're married, because that is your expectation.

[Host 1]

And this would be my first date chat, by the way.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I'd be like, would you like to hear about Pedro the cruel girl?

[Host 1]

And.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah. Would you say that if your wife was killed, how many hearts would you pull out?

[Host 1]

She would meet that level of commitment. Yes or no.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Romance.

[Host 1]

And I would not get a second date. Who's worse for you?

[Host 2]

Oh, who's the worst? No, I agree with that order. Exactly. I think Vlad is.

[Host 1]

He just has to be.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

He has to. There's nothing you can do about it, I think. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah. He is who he is.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

For a reason. Same for you or different.

[Host 1]

I think it has to be. It's between that or Richard. You've really convinced me about Richard.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Yeah, He's a real, real scumbag.

[Host 1]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We thinking that slightly. Let us know in the comments what you think. Think. We want the rankings. We want your numbers out of 10. We want your feelings.

[Host 2]

Money.

[Host 1]

No, no. We want your feelings about how romantic Pedro is and whether or not you agree with me. And you should agree with me because he's clearly amazing.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Girl.

[Host 1]

Oh, my God. Okay, if you want, you can leave us a five star review. Please do. Because it helps people to find the podcast and, you know, it's a nice little ego boost for us. We do enjoy to see the reviews.

[Host 2]

No, we do. Do. I don't look at them.

[Host 1]

You never look.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

I know.

[Host 2]

I don't look at them. You know, I don't look at them. I'm.

[Host 1]

Oh, I look at them. So.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Wow. She's. She's brave.

[Host 2]

She's brave. I'm too scared.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

You know, she's the type who would cut your heart out.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Be your own pedra. Yeah.

[Host 2]

That is coming from the same place. She's. If you leave bad reviews, she's taking your name. And who knows when she loses it one day she's coming for you. Yeah.

[Host 1]

See you next time. Oh, God.

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[Host 1]

Can I make my sight softer?

[Eleanor Yanaga]

Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

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[Host 2]

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