Podcast Summary: After Dark: Myths, Misdeeds & the Paranormal

Episode: Why Did Henry VIII Kill Catherine Howard?

Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Anthony Delaney & Maddie Pelling
Guest: Gareth Russell (Historian, author of "Young and Damned and Fair: The Life and Tragedy of Catherine Howard at the Court of Henry VIII")

Overview

This episode plunges into the tragic story of Catherine Howard, the fifth wife of Henry VIII, and unpacks the personal, dynastic, and courtly intrigues that led to her execution. Through conversation with historian Gareth Russell, the hosts examine how Catherine’s youth, relationships, agency, and the relentless politics of Henry’s court contributed to her downfall. The tone is both thoughtful and irreverent, mixing careful historical insight with moments of humor and empathy, painting Catherine as far more than just a doomed victim or a footnote among Henry’s wives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Catherine Howard: Background & Rise (05:33–10:10)

• Catherine was the younger daughter of a younger son of the former Duke of Norfolk—a good name but little money.
  • "We're not expecting huge things here." – Anthony (05:44)
• Raised as a ward of her step-grandmother, standard among English aristocracy.
• Catherine entered court society as a maid of honour to Anne of Cleves (Henry’s fourth wife).
• Rapid progression: Henry annulled his marriage to Anne in July 1540; Catherine became queen by summer’s end.
  • “Yeah, it's very quick. That is very quick than I realized.” – Gareth (06:41)
• She was likely 18 at marriage (per French ambassador’s report); Henry was 49.

Navigating the Treacherous Tudor Court (06:40–10:14)

• Catherine quickly gained favor: her charm, etiquette, and diplomacy stood out amid the unforgiving political labyrinth of the court.
  • “She was an extremely skilled negotiator of etiquette... these [rules] are like the crystal maze.” – Gareth (06:58)
• Henry’s mood drastically improved; their marriage was celebrated with grand spectacle.
• The court’s corridors were rife with alliances, betrayals, and gossip—where a “memory or meeting can count as treason.” (01:56–03:31, podcast prologue)

Relationships and Reputation: Love, Power, and Danger (10:15–24:29)

• Francis Dereham: Catherine’s former lover, with whom she had a serious, possibly consummated, relationship before Henry. Dereham blackmailed Catherine for a position at court using their intimate history (11:16–11:32).
  • “He blackmails her into giving him a job as gentleman usher. And he starts making comments about how well he's known the Queen before. She starts bribing him to be quiet.” – Gareth (11:15)
• Thomas Culpepper: After Henry’s near-fatal illness, Catherine, perhaps fearing widowhood, rekindled contact with Culpepper, orchestrating secret nocturnal meetings with the help of Lady Rochford.
• The court was a chessboard of intrigue, but Catherine’s ability to say no, cut off toxic men, and chart her own ambitions was repeatedly highlighted:
  • "She has some ownership over her own fate...when they overstep, she has enough self power and self awareness to say, no, thank you." – Maddie (17:10)
• Notable Modern Parallel: Russell frames Dereham’s behavior as a historical form of stalking and obsessive ex-partner behavior (32:25).
  • “It might not be what we think stalking looks like, but it's an awful lot like it.” – Gareth (32:25)
• Agency:
  • “She is understanding pathways of power... she's going, there's Agency over there. I'm going over there.” – Anthony (24:38)

Consequences of the Past: The Scandal Erupts (24:29–33:48)

• Catherine’s sexual history and the identities of her “lovers” became political dynamite.
• Discovery and Downfall: The scandal broke when John Lassels reported, via his sister, Catherine’s past with Dereham to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer.
• Investigation began in secrecy; evidence gathered from past lovers and ladies in waiting.
• Catherine initially denied everything but broke down under pressure, her confessions contradictory—a tragic spiral.
  • “She is in complete meltdown. Meltdown. And it's so heartbreaking.” – Gareth (36:05)
• Henry's court handled investigations with brutal efficiency, reminiscent of Anne Boleyn’s fall (42:43).

Catherine’s Final Days and Execution (40:09–48:22)

• Catherine’s connection with Culpepper sealed her doom; a love letter found in Culpepper’s chambers was damning (41:00).
• Parliament passed an act of attainder specifically for her and Lady Rochford, including the right (for the first time) to execute the insane, in order to punish Rochford (46:12).
  • “Henry changed the law to get this done... There is a maniacal push for the blood sacrifice.” – Gareth (46:12)
• Catherine asked to rehearse her own execution the night before—an act reflecting her steel and control over her final moments (47:39).
  • “She does what any good performance does and she rehearses... She rehearses.” – Gareth (47:39)

Reframing Catherine: Not Just a Victim (49:28–55:04)

• Russell and the hosts insist Catherine was more than a naive girl or a girlboss icon—she was complex, sharp, sometimes difficult, and, ultimately, cruelly crushed by the king’s will.
  • “You have to have something of steel within you to rehearse your own execution.” – Gareth (49:28)
• Catherine was gaining influence at court before her fall, negotiating religious and political tensions with measured neutrality.
• Henry VIII is positioned as the fatal link behind the public destruction of both her and Anne Boleyn.
  • “There is only one common unifying factor and it's hubby dearest.” – Gareth (55:04)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Catherine's character:
  • “She takes them in. She's like, do you want to go to the orchard?... She's not afraid of the break up.” – Gareth (21:07)
• On Dereham:
  • “He just could not handle her... he is the author of his own tragedy and other people's.” – Gareth (20:30)
• On the world she inhabited:
  • “Every corridor is like a chessboard. Alliances are struck at supper and broken by sunrise. A misplaced laugh can make an enemy. Into this crossfire steps Katherine Howard...” – Maddie (01:56)
• On her tragic end:
  • “She asks would they bring the block to her room so she can rehearse the execution. And she does. She rehearses.” – Gareth (47:39)
  • “You have put me in this position, but I will walk out of it how I want to.” – Gareth (47:50)
• On historical misogyny:
  • “They go for the gynecological destruction. They go as base as they can.” – Gareth (53:50)
• On Henry VIII:
  • “There is only one common unifying factor and it's hubby dearest.” – Gareth (55:04)
• On reframing Catherine:
  • “To me, the Catherine I got to spend five years with, I understood why some of her maids found her insufferable and inconsiderate. And I understood why the imperial ambassador... found her seriously impressive and dignified. She's all of those things... the best tribute we can give to her downfall is its rebuttal and to say it's just part of the story.” – Gareth (51:55)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Catherine’s background and marriage – 05:33–07:41
• Her agency and ambition – 24:29–26:20
• The sexual past and risks – 14:36–18:19
• Francis Dereham and the blackmail – 10:14–13:16, 20:30–21:29
• Investigation and downfall begins – 33:48–36:05
• Execution preparations and final confessions – 47:10–48:22
• Reflections and legacy – 49:28–56:03

Tone and Unique Asides

• Humor and empathy mix freely: cheese board/chessboard banter (01:21–01:45, 28:29–28:55) and speculation about “the gays would have loved her” (52:05) lighten the dark tale without trivializing it.
• The hosts repeatedly stress the importance of viewing Catherine as a real, multi-dimensional person, not simply a “poor little victim” or girlboss.

Conclusion

This episode offers a riveting, empathetic retelling of Catherine Howard’s brief, extraordinary life and the lethal intersection of youth, romance, agency, and royal paranoia in Henry VIII’s court. Gareth Russell’s passionate reframing ensures Catherine emerges as a tragic figure of nuance and humanity, not just a historical cautionary tale.