← After Party with Emily Jashinsky
After Party with Emily Jashinsky
Elite Immigration Fails, Out-of-Touch Media Influencers, and Trump’s Reiner Post, with Batya Ungar-Sargon
01:21:59
Emily Jashinsky is joined by Batya Ungar-Sargon, Host of "Batya!" on News Nation, and they open with a discussion on the horrendous terror attack in Australia and discuss rising claims of antisemitism here at home. Batya explains why she believes America is fundamentally different than Europe and Australia and rejects fearmongering about antisemitism in the U.S., citing everyday assimilation, strong Jewish–Muslim coexistence, and Americans’ instinctive protection of Jewish neighbors. They also respond to Bari Weiss’s warning about social-media–driven conspiracy thinking, if the panic is largely caused by bots, niche audiences, and content monetization. Then the conversation turns to Democratic failures on immigration and Tim Dillon’s blunt critique of job competition. Next Emily and Batya discuss the backlash to President Trump’s post about the murders of Rob Reiner and his wife, Trump’s inability to rise to the occasion during some somber moments, and why his norm-breaking appeals...
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- [00:02]
Commercial Announcer
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- [00:30]
Batya Unger Sargon
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- [01:04]
Emily
Welcome to After Party, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. Our guest tonight is the always wonderful Batya Unger Sargon. She will join us in just one moment. I have to say, right at the top of the show here, this is our 50th episode of After Party. 50 times we have come to you live on a Monday and Wednesday night at 10pm since back in June when actually Batya herself was one of our very first guests on the show. I know it's the holiday season and not quite the new year, but hitting that 50 episode mile marker certainly feels good. And I want to say just a thank you to everybody for coming along with us. The audience keeps growing and building, so we're very, very grateful to all of you for sticking it out. Episode 50. Let's get to episode. What do you think? 50,000, maybe. Episode 50 million. Who knows? The sky is the limit. Tonight's show comes amidst one of the very darkest news cycles that I can remember. How about you? I mean, I was on the Megyn Kelly show today and Megan said, you know, it was almost like Dateline going through the stories that are at the top of the heap in the news cycle right now. It was a very, very dark weekend and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention one story that's not quite getting enough attention. In midst of all of the big stories over the last several days, two members of the Iowa National Guard were killed in Syria in an ISIS attack. Horrific. Horrific. And so praying for their family members, their friends, their communities, obviously we just saw two National Guard members be targeted, what, less than a month ago now, one of whom from West Virginia, of course, died. So those, those National Guard killings hit communities really hard. And I'm certainly praying for all of you and waiting for, for even more information to come out. Actually, speaking of the West Virginia case, the case of the West Virginia National Guard member Sarah Beckstrom, who was killed back in November, the Washington Post had a deep dive on the suspected the suspect in this case, the shooter in this case, who sort of his, his journey to sp after coming to the United States being resettled, the Washington Post found this man changed his Facebook profile picture to include the banner of the Taliban like the Taliban flag and then a year later was granted asylum by the United States. So speaking of stories, with a whole lot more details to come, that is certainly one of them. I would love to know as of right now how it's possible to put two and two together and get four, four being the asylum case this, the asylum case being granted. That is unfathomable. And there will surely be more and more details to come. Tonight, of course, we are going to be discussing the fallout from the savage murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. We're going to be discussing the Bondi beach massacre. We're going to be discussing H1B visa developments, the politics of that. We have video from Leslie Jones. We have a report that Kamala Harris is pretty serious about running for president in 2028. And Donald Trump has declared fentanyl a weapon of mass destruction. So we're going to get to all of that and more with Bacha Unger Sargon in just one moment. Please stick around. First. Recently I learned about Colostrum, the very first milk. If I don't do this in a Trump voice, everyone will get mad. It's known of course, as liquid gold that babies receive from their mothers after birth. It is packed with proteins, natural growth factors, antimicrobial peptides that work to enhance your immune response, reduce inflammation, repair and balance gut lining, reduce bloating and make your hair and skin look amazing. Today's sponsor, Cowboy Colostrum offers the highest quality cow Colostrum available in the United States. Dates 100. Made in America from 100American grass fed cows. They don't over process or strip their colostrum, leaving it whole, full fat and high protein for ultimate nutrient density. It is the highest quality bovine colostrum you can buy. Cowboy is easy to drink, made with delicious natural ingredients and no artificial flavors. Simply add a three groom scoop gram scoop of either their chocolate Madagascar vanilla or strawberry into your coffee and smoothie. I like the strawberry flavor and a nice glass of milk. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order. Just head to cowboycolostroom.com afterparty and use code AFTERPARTY at checkout. That's 25% off when you use code AFTERPARTY@cowboycolostrum.com afterparty After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them our show sent you looking for.
- [06:11]
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- [07:11]
Emily
All right. I'm so happy to be joined now once again by Batya Unger Sargon. She is of course the host of Batia on News Nation and comes to us tonight from a party with what? Bache, the vice president. Is that what you were doing tonight?
- [07:26]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yes, but I had to leave before he showed to go on News Nation.
- [07:31]
Emily
Oh no, that is a bummer.
- [07:35]
Batya Unger Sargon
What were the beautiful party? It was a Hanukkah party so I had a great time. But I did have to because it was called for 7:30 to 9:30. And then they asked me to come on News Nation to talk about antisemitism and Bondi and I felt like I couldn't say no to that. And so, you know, with timing, whatever, I ended up having to leave at 8:30. But Emily, we said we were drinking next time we hung out. I hope you have your drink handy. I could not drink at the party and so this is my party right now.
- [08:06]
Emily
How why couldn't you drink at the party?
- [08:08]
Batya Unger Sargon
Because I was going on tv. Do you do that? You drink before you go on?
- [08:12]
Emily
Absolutely. And I always have. I didn't know that was a thing people didn't do. And I am not, trust me, I'm not. There's a clip out there me out there of me somewhere when there's that Fox News show that's on at like 11pm I had. It was. I won't even send to people in the Google spiral looking for that clip because I just remember Fox reposted something I said the next day. I was like red in the face and like shouting about cancel culture or something. Anyway, I hope that's you tonight.
- [08:43]
Batya Unger Sargon
Me too.
- [08:44]
Emily
All right, so before we get started, I've never been to the Naval Observatory. Everything I hear about is absolutely gorgeous and beautiful. What were the vibes like? Bache? Even though these were pre JD vibes. But how were they tonight?
- [08:56]
Batya Unger Sargon
They were great. I mean, it's muted because of what happened in Australia. I am a big like anti Semitism in America skeptic. This is what I was talking about on News Nation. I just. When people say like, oh, it's coming here. I'm like, no, it's not. It just isn't. Like, it's just the. Everything that unfolded in that scene was just so alien to America. I was alien to America, both in terms of how Jews are in America, but also how Muslims are in America. Our Muslim community is very middle class. It's very assimilated. I live in a neighborhood that's half Turkish immigrants and half Russian Jews. Like, the idea that there would be like ethnic strife is ridiculous. Like, everyone wants to get along. Everyone's chasing the American dream. Brooklyn is just full of streets that are just like very religious Muslims living side by side with very religious Jews. Everybody gets along. Like, it's just so alien. That scene of the father and the son who just, they, they looked like people who had no connection to the community, who were very other. Not in terms of how they were seen, but how they saw themselves. Like, that's what I got from that video. And then of course, that heroic Ahmed Al Ahmed who jumped into the fray. That thing of being alien to the context that you're in, it's just, it's not American to me.
- [10:18]
Emily
And.
- [10:20]
Batya Unger Sargon
People are talking now a lot about importing people who don't share our values or whatever. We talk about that at length. But to me, the thing about American capitalism is it takes no prisoners. People get here and they want in. They want to be A part of it. And in my neighborhood specifically, there's, I want to say, like 20 blocks away from where I live, which is kind of where my gym is. So I go there a lot. There's public housing, and it's clear that a whole. A big group of Afghans were moved into that public housing. And you see the kids and their parents and their families walking to the public school across the street. And you can see with every year the same little girls. Like, you know, a year ago the littlest girls were wearing hijab, and now they're not anymore. You know, you can walk into a cafe and Sheepshead Bay and have families where the mother's wearing hijab and the daughters aren't or where the daughter is wearing hijab and the mother isn't. Like, this is the beauty of America is like, we believe in freedom of religion, you know, So I just, I don't. I feel like the fear mongering about it happening here is really off. Not just in terms of who our Muslims are, but also Americans are extremely protective of their Jewish neighbors, which is just something that's been like, totally written out of the story. I've traveled this country. I wear a big ass Star of David everywhere I go. Like, the first thing you know about me is that I am a Jew and I just, I never feel unsafe, ever. And I think it's a canard and I think it's just wrong that people spread that. So I'm a big skeptic about rising anti Semitism in America. How are you doing? I feel like that was like a long story.
- [12:08]
Emily
Good evening, Bashi. You know how to make a party fun, I'll tell you that. No, actually on that point, the vice president, who I know you had to leave before he entered the party. It may have been because he was posting on X. He was posting on.
- [12:21]
Batya Unger Sargon
He's sitting there posting on X instead of coming to this party. Well, he posted lineal behavior.
- [12:29]
Emily
It is, it's. It's millennial vice president behavior. He posted actually about exactly this because right now there's an Atlantic article making the rounds citing a few different polls that purport to show rising anti Semitism as the age demographics get younger. That is to say, there's in these, these various pol polls. One is from Yale, the other is from the Kamala Harris campaign and they're being written about in the Atlantic. Now, I think we all would have to have a bigger conversation about how these polls define anti Semitism and anti Semitic sentiments before, you know, Parsing this. But one of the comments that Vice President Vance made, and we probably have the post that we can put up on the screen, is actually that he thinks it's wrong to comment about this polling without mentioning the waves of migration of people who do not share. Basically what he's saying is American values that have disproportionate numbers in younger demographics. And that reminds me exactly of the point that you were making, Bhatia, which is in the United States traditionally, we have a history of assimilation that's very different than anywhere else in the world. It goes back to our, our past, our founding. And it's easy to understand kind of the through line in American history. A lot of people feel like that's kind of slipping. I want to play this clip, although I think it's a very important question to your point. I want to play this clip of a local mp, Member of Parliament. This is a GB news clip of this MP talking about how, quote, unquote, diversity is our strength in Australia after the Bondi beach massacre. We can go ahead and roll this. You don't want to speculate on what the factors are that have contributed to this awful tragedy that seems to be of a huge scale. You know, my heart breaks for those people and their families. I think it's important to note that the, so the escalation of this narrative of who we're against and how much we, we want to divide each other and how much we want to attack each other, that is really at the core of a lot of the problems that we have in the country at the moment. And I, I firmly believe that people are good and that given the opportunity, they will look out for each other. And I just want to say that as much as possible, we should try and detoxify the way that we think of people who aren't like us because our diversity in this country is our strength. And you can tell by the accent that I obviously misspoke, that's not an Australian mp, it's a British mp. But that's where people I imagine, like Vice President Vance, look to Europe. We've heard President Trump talk about this as well and worry the same sort of. Maybe we could use the phrase that Gad Sat and Elon Musk talked about empathy they see in European countries that becomes a lack of empathy for maybe native born citizens of all races, colors, creeds, that that becomes a significant problem. Do you worry about that or do you think actually America is different and will always be different in, in that respect?
- [15:34]
Batya Unger Sargon
Well, I basically think Immigration should be at close to zero right now. So I think Europe made massive, massive mistakes on this front, and we shouldn't make those mistakes. But because we have not made those mistakes, I am free to think about immigration from an economic point of view. And that's really where my focus is. We just need. We're just. It's just I'm sick of being fleeced. The American people are unbelievably generous and their generosity has been taken advantage of again and again and again and again. Whether it's by Somalis literally stealing from them, or 20,000 illegal migrants. At 20 million illegal migrants, at least 10 million of whom have fraudulent asylum claims, 70% of whom never show up for their immigration cases. They're fleecing us because every one of those people is either working, in which case they're driving down the wages for Americans, or if they're not working, then they are living off of the American taxpayer because they're getting welfare. There's no third option here, right? None of them have rich relatives in some other country that are like, subsidizing their life here. So I'm sort of at like, we need to get to immigration zero. I think that because of the way America works, we've had the luxury of not having to think about this from a cultural point of view because most of our migrants come from Central and South America. And culturally they're very similar to us. They're religious, they're into family. They don't like corruption because they come from very corrupt places. They like capitalism because they come from socialist places. To me, they're very culturally similar to us. They still can't be here because they're making life worse for working class Americans. But yeah, for sure we should not then add to the problem we have with mass migration the additional problem of importing millions and millions of people who hate Western values and hate Jews. That would be really, really bad, in my view. There's very few things that are as anti American as anti Semitism, if only because the founding Fathers really saw Jews as the harbingers of the civilization they were trying to create here. They saw the Hebrew Bible as the source of the ideas in the Constitution. The idea that we are all created in the image of God, the idea that our rights are God given. They saw that as being written in the Hebrew Bible like it was not an idea that the founding fathers thought a person could think their way into. They saw that text as being divine and being the source of these amazing ideas. And when Jews started coming here in 1654. They already, their neighbors already saw them as sort of bringing with them this civilization that had preceding, preceded them to these shores. This idea of, you know, all being created equal and in the image of God and having these God given rights. And you know, finally, Thomas Jefferson would phrase that in this beautiful way where he would say, it's not about religious tolerance. It doesn't rely on the tolerance of your neighbor. It's about liberty. God gave you that liberty, not your tolerant neighbor, even though their neighbors were really tolerant. So, yeah, these are like very fundamental ideas to what it means to be an American. If we imported, you know, 10 million people from Muslim countries, they certainly would not agree with any of those values and certainly would not see Jews in the same light. So that would be bad. We're very lucky because we're sort of, you know, in a different place right now. We're having, we're able to have a different conversation. So I sort of agree with the vice President, but I don't think that this is necessarily sort of coming home to roost here yet.
- [19:36]
Emily
That's a very, I think it is a very refreshing glass half full take. And let me put the Gadsad Elon Musk exchange on the screen. This is from December 13th. Gad said, please try to be empathetic and look the other way as your civilization is being raped and murdered into oblivion. Die kindly. That was in response to Elon Musk. Or Elon Musk responded on December 14 saying, either the suicidal empathy of Western civilization ends or Western civilization will end. But Bacha, just to put maybe a bow on this conversation we're having about the broader discussion of Western civilization versus American civilization, it is true that in some of these Western European countries, I think, you know, obviously, while Australia is nowhere near Western Europe, it is very Western European, just in the way that the society is set up. You've actually lived outside of the United States, Bacha, you've seen this in other countries. Is there something in the United States that maybe is an immune response to this? What is it? What is the phrase? I mean, it's Elon says suicidal empathy. Is there. Do we have some unique bulwark against suicidal empathy? Or is or. Or should these trajectories of the UK Australia, where you see serious, serious problems with integrating large populations of, in some cases refugees, some cases economic migrants from Islamic cultures, some of whom, you know, Somalia is a good example. It has about a 99 female genital mutilation rate, according to UNICEF. That is a very difficult culture to assimilate. Into northern Minnesota. And to be honest, we've done a remarkable job in the United States for all of the. You know, it's amazing to me that there isn't more like, what we've seen just in the last couple of weeks, that it's not even worse, as bad as it is. So maybe some perspective on that would be helpful. Bacha.
- [21:36]
Batya Unger Sargon
It's a really good question, but there's just. I feel like we really do. I'm a Pollyanna, so I'm always in the glass half full thing. Like, people are always saying to me, like, oh, my God, you're like, you're so wrong. Like, things are so much worse. But. So I do have that tendency.
- [21:53]
Emily
But that's what makes you different in media. Seriously. Because that's very reflective of the average American's mindset, and it's very not reflective of the average journalist's mindset.
- [22:01]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yeah. Because it's so much easier to get clicks if you're saying, like, everything is terrible. But, yeah, like, we don't have that problem. We don't have these. You look at what's doing in France, you look at what's doing in Sweden, where you literally have no go zones. And it's so funny because they act like this is. The problem is with, like, the Muslims. The problem is not with the Muslims. The problem is that their cops are pussies. Okay, I'm sorry. Like, can you imagine if, like, the NYPD was like, yeah, Bay Ridge, we don't go there.
- [22:37]
Emily
We don't bring guns. No guns.
- [22:40]
Batya Unger Sargon
Right. Like, it's just they're blaming the wrong people. And I do think that America is exceptional and does not get credit for it. So, of course this suicidal empathy is real. And you see it, for example, Tom Holman was talking about this today in the Oval Office. You see it in the approach to immigration, to where the left was like, oh, the compassionate position is to have an open border. And what that resulted in was a third of women being raped on the way here. That's not compassionate. That's disgusting. That is a perversion of compassion. So we have it, but we don't quite have it in the same context as they have it in Europe, where they're afraid to literally arrest rapists because they happen to be Muslims. Like, they're in a lot worse of a situation.
- [23:30]
Emily
Pakistani gangs.
- [23:31]
Batya Unger Sargon
Exactly. And I just find that very, like, unimaginable and unthinkable here. And it's amazing that in Australia, the response to this attack was not like, wow, we've Been like really siding with the wrong side in this conflict here. And that instead it was like, oh wait, there are too many guns. It's too easy to get access to guns. It's so amazing. Or you see them like see censoring the videos of the shooting there. I was asked about this on Australian TV this morning and I was just like, I was like, I don't even know what to say. Like, as an American, that's just like so unthinkable that our government would like say, oh, you can't watch that. Like what? That's the whole point of America.
- [24:14]
Emily
Well, it's perfect that you should mention that because I was actually just going to ask you about this, this clip of someone both of us know, Barry Weiss on cbs, sort of recapp the town hall she hosted with Erica Kirk. And here's a little bit of what Barry said. And I have to say I actually do agree with a lot of it and people are interpreting it, I think maybe uncharitably in some directions. But I'm curious to get your take because there is a particular line that's a little concerning. Let's go ahead and roll Barry here.
- [24:46]
Batya Unger Sargon
If you go on the Internet and frankly it is leapt beyond the Internet now into real life and you talk to many seemingly sane people, they do not believe that the 22 year old named Tyler Robinson that has been arrested and charged with his murder is the actual murderer. Who do they think? They believe any number of theories. They believe that Erica Kirk was his Mossad handler and that he was killed by a foreign government. They believe that she was tracked by Egyptian planes. They believe that the rings on her hand are signs of Illuminati. The theories themselves are absurd. What matters is that because she speaks about this in the interview, the brain rot that social media is allowing to spread the way that it is detaching us from humanity, from our ability to talk to one another and our ability to discern the truth from just out and out lies is something that is incredibly important as a theme, I think.
- [25:44]
Emily
Okay, so let me, before I toss it to you about, just first say I agree that these social media companies are, they are tweaking us with their algorithms. I mean, if Twitter went back to just a straight news feed and you know, Gen Z doesn't remember when Facebook and Instagram were like that either. You could literally scroll to the bottom of, of Twitter and Facebook at one point because you got through all of the posts from all of the people you'd followed since you last checked in. That's very different than on incentivizing strong emotion to the point you just made in ways that are genuinely retraining our thought patterns. Now, on the other hand, she used the word allowed. She said the social media companies are allowing the brain rot. And this is where people like Matt taibi, this is F4, came in and said the proliferation of conspiracy theories on social media can't be fixed by censorship. That makes it worse, as I hope Barry Weiss knows. It only gets solved by major news organizations recommitting to accuracy, owning up to mistakes, restoring trust, etc, so. So bocce. It does remind me a bit of almost blaming the guns in Australia for the Bandai massacre rather than the ideology. It could be a car, it could be a pressure cooker bomb. And in this case, I don't think social media is making anything better. But the problem is deep institutional distrust. So is it a question of social media companies, quote, allowing this?
- [27:03]
Batya Unger Sargon
You know, again, I'm like such a huge skeptic about all of this. There was a report that came out this week that, that over half of Nick Fuentes is yes or foreign bots, which I've been saying for years. You know, you take another example, Tucker Carlson, the average age of his viewer. I saw data that was put out that suggested that it was even older than the average Fox viewer. Okay, now, so we're talking about like old boomers who are conservatives, right? Like, these are the most pro Israel people in America. So, like, obviously he's not penetrating even to the people who are listening. So I just feel like, you know, there's a bunch of people on social media and they found a niche. They found a way to like, monetize their content. And there's some weird thing happening where people are acting like that means that every view that they get on a video corresponds with an American voter who is 100% in agreement with their views. Like, it just. I feel like we're like in moral panic territory. And Emily, you wrote this great piece being like, guys, per usual. Sorry. Exactly. Like the Gen Z's, they're not Roy Berserke. Just relax for a second. And I sort of feel like that's like, you know, Nick Fuentes is very funny. Like, people watch him and don't necessarily come away being like, yeah, he's right, Hitler's cool. It's funny. And so they laugh. Like, we all have our guilty things that we watch or listen to that we don't agree with, but that kind of make us chuckle, you know, Like, I just don't Feel like this is representative of like an actual, like, mass movement. I'll say another thing, you know, Turning Point, extremely important organization. So they'll go to college campuses and do their events. And then at the last one where the vice president was there, there were like three or four questions that were like, very anti Israel. And it was like, oy, yoy. The young people, they're turning, they hate the Jews, they hate Israel. And it was like, I love Turning Point, okay? But we're talking about an organization that represents college conservatives, okay? Like, the number of college educated Americans who are conservatives is tiny. And the share of the conservative movement and the Republican Party that are college educated, tiny. We're talking about a really small portion of a very large movement. And I just feel like people are so. Like, when Barry Weiss says, I know a lot of people who buy into Candace Owens, I'm like, do you, Barry? Do you really know a lot of people like that? Because I know a lot of normies. I know a lot of working class people across the country and none of them are watching Candace Owens and none of them are watching Nick Fuentes, and none of them are watching Tucker Carlson. And even the ones who are not getting their marching orders from them. It's just so, and it's so funny. Like, you just like, it's a time again and again and again where it's like the content creators, their whole, like, agenda is so divorced from the normie, especially the normie working class agenda. I remember, I'll never forget. Like, I got a text message from this guy I know, he works in a bar. Like, he's middle aged Republican his whole life, like, super into Trump. And he texted me and he goes, why does everybody keep talking about Jeffrey Epstein? Like, why am I supposed to care about this?
- [30:42]
Emily
Interesting.
- [30:43]
Batya Unger Sargon
And it was so representative of like, what people had been saying to me to where I was like, Trump knows what's up. He knows. Nobody cares about this except people who make money off of content. And we're all acting like the Internet is not available outside of the boundaries of the United States. It's so ridiculous. And I think even someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who used to be so in touch with the grassroots and her voters and whatever, and she had this big thing where she kind of followed the, she followed the engagement and started obsessing over it. Epstein and being against the attack on Iran, which was wildly, wildly popular, like, 90% of Republican voters were like, yeah, go take out their nuclear reactors. But the content creators were like, how dare you engage militarily with Iran, right, there's this real divide, but I don't think the right is divided. I don't think MAGA is divided. I think there's a divide between people who make a lot of money actually off of content and then like your average normie working class voter who represents like the base of the party. And Trump is like one of the only people I've seen who can really see clearly which is which. What do you think, Emily? Do you agree with me?
- [32:01]
Emily
I agree with you in part because I think two things can be true at once. Which is, on the one hand, the average mega voter has kitchen table issues front and center. And by kitchen table issues, I mean health care, taxes, cost of living, rent, housing, education for their kids, all of that. On the other hand, I think the Epstein case is sort of seen as a litmus test. Like, nobody believes that we're actually getting transparency in this case, but it's sort of like if Trump is supposed to be Mr. Wrecking Ball, then, yeah, like, they're like, oh, you know, you've got to actually be the. Be the wrecking ball. You're going to lose some trust. But that doesn't mean, I mean, most people are voting in lesser of two evil elections, and they want to know that you're going to make their life more affordable, better, richer. And I meant, by that, I meant like socially richer, just a better world. And so I think, I think I'm of two minds on that. But it can be true that that represents the average and that people are also a little skeptical. I think you always have a needed dose of like, outside perspective, though, Bacha, from people that you talk to and you've written about and you corresponded with for a long time who are completely outside of the media bubble.
- [33:09]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yeah. And I think also people go through, like, they go through phases where you, you know, like, you know, I know this truck driver. He listens to a lot of podcasts. And, you know, he would be listening to certain podcasts that I would consider to be like, beyond the pale. And then like, after a while, he was just like, gross. Like, he just, it just like he was like, actually like, no, that's not. They're trying to blame everything on this one and on that one, and that's not. And stopped listening to them and moved on. And so I feel like there's kind of like a big moral panic happening around this kind of content, and it's extremely important to have that kind of bigger picture perspective, you know, part of, like the foundation of this country. Is that it has just always been a homeland for the Jews. I mean, Jews were coming here, they were moving here and seeing this as the promised land for 200 years. 250 years before the state of Israel even existed. And it was the promised land. They were treated as equals. And, Emily, you should read the letters that, like, Jews who had moved here from Germany in, like, the 18th century, 19th century would write back home. Like, you just weep to read them. Like, they'll say, like, because. Because they. They still remembered what it was like in the old country. And they would be writing these letters home. Like, we're treated like everybody else. You can't even imagine how high a Jew can rise here. Like, it's just so amazing. And that they would get the same love back from the community. Like, just. Anyway, beginning of my book where I'm just finishing up the copy edits on my next book. And so I'm like, swimming in this, like, the first 200 years of, like, Jewish history in America. It's just so beautiful. And the idea that that's going to be undone by some, like, you know, twink who's sitting there just, you know, like, I'm just.
- [34:58]
Emily
Oh, I know who you're talking about. Okay, I'm going to save you with the bell here. We're going to go to break, and when we come back, we're going to talk more about immigration. Not that you need to be saved by the Bach. We know exactly where you were going with that. All right, all right, all right. We'll be back in just one moment. First, though, if you've ever noticed those creepy ads that pop up on your phone, and they seem to know every. Exactly where you've been, what you've bought, and even what you've been talking about, and you've probably asked yourself, is my phone monitoring me? The truth is, your smartphone is constantly collecting and leaking data without your knowledge or your consent. Every day, it builds a detailed profile of your life, your location, your habits, your interests, even the people with whom you're communicating. And that information is funneled into an invisible marketplace where it's tracked, analyzed, and sold to the highest bidder. Sometimes, by the way, that's is the government. Of course, it's not just annoying, it's invasive and it is happening all of the time. But the up phone by unplugged is different. I have mine right here. You can see it. It's designed to protect your privacy from the ground up. No hidden trackers, no data mining, just a secure, streamlined smartphone experience. That puts you back in control. Whether you're texting, browsing, or using apps, the up phone ensures your personal information stays personal. It's the phone for people who are done being watched. So if you're ready to to take back your digital privacy, visit unplugged.com emily and get 25 off a phone case with a purchase of a phone. Learn more and order your up phone today. That's unplugged.com Emily because your life should be yours, not theirs. And again, here you can see the up phone on your screen before the.
- [36:45]
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- [37:13]
Emily
All right, we are back now with Bacha Unger Sargon, host of Bacha on News Nation. I want to ask about this Tim Dillon clip. Tim Dillon, kind of an interesting, I'm actually curious what you're taking, where he kind of fits in the broader MAGA universe. But this is actually before the New York Times story popped, or it's right around the same time this New York Times story popped. We were talking about young conservatives earlier. There's a New York Times headline about the, quote, zoomer cons. The headline is the young people fixated on who gets to work in America. And it was all about how the zoomer cons are obsessed with this very wonky conversation about H1B visas. And there are a lot of reasons for this. We're going to get into all of them. But let's listen to comedian Tim Dillon. I think having his finger pretty firmly on the pulse of where some of these sentiments are coming from.
- [38:07]
Commercial Announcer
Is the, is the goal here that Americans should compete with the entire world for jobs? Is that the point, is the point that Americans should compete with people from all over the world for jobs in their own country? That's one of the most psychotic things I've ever heard.
- [38:26]
Emily
And it would only make sense if.
- [38:28]
Commercial Announcer
You were part of the asset owning class that owned all of the things that are serviced by people that you are paying a lot less money to.
- [38:41]
Emily
And Bacha, I don't know if you caught this, but James Talarico, one of the Senate candidates actually now running against Jasmine Crockett in Texas in the primary down there, I call him Timur Richie Cunningham. It's not very kind, but it's accurate. He said on Jubilee, he just point blank looked at the person across from him and said, joe Biden failed us on immigration. And it's like, how hard was that?
- [39:04]
Batya Unger Sargon
How hard was that?
- [39:05]
Emily
Maybe it would have helped if some people were doing it while it happened. But isn't Tim Dillon closer to the average American here than like Democrats were for the last 10 years?
- [39:14]
Batya Unger Sargon
It's so funny. Last week was really like, I called it in my monologue on my show, like, like the week of. It can now be said, you know.
- [39:22]
Emily
Like.
- [39:25]
Batya Unger Sargon
It can now be said Ukraine is a deeply corrupt country that is embezzling hundreds and millions of our taxpayer dollars. It can now be said. The New York Times said it, you know, like, it can now be said Biden failed us on immigration. Now that it's like, obvious that they'll never win another election if they can't, like, spit out those, like, force out those words. You know, the Democrats, Democrats truly believe that our economy cannot work without an indentured servant caste working for less than minimum wage with no work protections. And they will freely admit this to you. Like, this is, their stated position is like, well, everything will get more expensive if we deport the illegals. We need them to work. Yes, right. Like, like the household of, like a rich, progressive couple, you know, which relies on the labor of, you know, illegals because they don't want to pay. It's so amazing. Like, my grandmother, I'm sure I've told you this story before, but she, she thought raising children was like the most like, soul sucking, boring thing. But she was the wife of a rabbi. It wasn't like she could just like, not have kids. And so what she did was she had children and then she hired what was called a domestic Emma, who had come up from the Great Migration. She moved. Emma moved into their house. She raised my mom and her brothers and my grandmother. My grandmother got a teacher's degree, she became a teacher, and she would hand over her entire paycheck to Emma. And that made perfect sense to her. Like, she didn't want to raise her kids, but it never occurred to her that because she had a piece of paper that was a credential from nyu, therefore Emma should be broke all the time and live on the streets and she should be living in luxury. Right? Like, Emma was doing the job that she was supposed to do and didn't want to. And so Emma deserved the same amount of money as she made. Like, this was utterly obvious to my, you know, ultra orthodox grandmother. Now what's happened is, is what the mass migration allowed the elites to do is they get that piece of paper and it means they should be flying in first class and everyone else should be in coach. They think that that means they should be making way more money than the people they're employing to do the things that really they should be doing, like cleaning their own freaking toilets or raising their own children or mowing their own lawn. Right. This is kind of what mass migration allowed them to do, is to think that somehow, because of a piece of paper, a credential which the elites just confer on each other, it doesn't, it doesn't signify any actual learning. Right. They don't actually know anything, but because they have that credential, therefore, they should be allowed to employ people who make a fraction of what they make, and they should be able to use the rest on whatever they want to spend it on. It's disgusting. And it's just. This is what Trump exists to fix on immigration and on trade. Just the mass fleecing of the American working class to where, you know, the top 10% love to rail against the billionaires, but the share of the economy that's controlled by the billionaire class has not significantly changed since the 70s, which was like the high water mark for working class purchasing power. So where did all that money go? Well, it went from the middle class into the upper middle class. So the top 10% now control over 60% of the GDP. And of course, they're all Democrats. Like, 70% of people who make over $500,000 a year now are Democrats, which is, by the way, Emily, I'm sure you agree with me. Actually, I'm curious if you agree with me on this, which is why I keep yelling at Republicans, like, why are you giving tax cuts to the rich? They're all Democrats. They're just gonna take that money and fund Democratic candidates. They're gonna run you out of office, and then they're gonna put you on prison. Like, why are you doing this? It's so dumb. They have this muscle memory to where, like, they think they still have to cater to the rich.
- [43:26]
Emily
Oh. And I mean, it's. The answer is so obvious when, you know, Donald Trump comes into office and surrounds himself at his inauguration with the richest of the rich who, you know. Yeah. But anyway, we have to get back into that. I think it's, you know, Funniest example was Georgia giving Hollywood all of these tax credits to film in Georgia with very mediocre returns to their own economy, while Hollywood was calling everybody from Georgia a racist bigot for their faith.
- [43:50]
Batya Unger Sargon
Anyway, by the way, I do have to say we were watching a movie. I'm trying to. I'm trying to remember what it was. Oh, was it a TV show on Netflix? Oh, yes, I was watching a TV show on Netflix. And the heroine is running away from the law and a truck. She hides in a truck, okay? And then the truck driver gets. I'm going somewhere with this. I promise it's really good.
- [44:11]
Emily
I don't even care if you're going somewhere with it.
- [44:15]
Batya Unger Sargon
So the truck driver gets in the truck and he's driving, you know, and then. And he's like a big, fat white guy with, like, a camo hat. Okay. Like, you know, looks like a truck driver.
- [44:24]
Emily
Okay.
- [44:25]
Batya Unger Sargon
At some point, you know, she falls asleep and she wakes up, and he's pointing, like, you know, a rifle at her, and he's like, all right, get up, get out. And then there's this whole scene where you're like, okay, well, it's Netflix. And he's like a fat white guy who obviously voted for Trump. He drives a truck, like, okay, is he, like, in a. Rape her, like, what's going to happen here? And she's like, you know, I just need a little. A little help or whatever, whatever. And he's. He says, so, are you running away from the law? And she says, yes. And he goes, and this is, by the way, this is like, such a truck driver thing to say. He goes, there's only two things I really hate. And he's like, my ex and the law.
- [44:59]
Emily
I. I knew that was coming, you know?
- [45:02]
Batya Unger Sargon
And then he helps her, and I'm like, nature is healing. Because in any. Any movie, TV show on Netflix or any of these, like, you know, Disney or Amazon or whatever, like, like pre2024, that guy would have been the bad guy, right? Like, there's no way, like, you knew when the Trump voter showed up on the screen that they were going to be, like, horrible, you know? And it's like, there was something about that scene where I was like, okay, it's like somebody has gotten the message that, like, you just can't treat people like that anymore, or they're just not going to watch your stuff and they're.
- [45:36]
Emily
Not going to pay for your Georgia tax. Tax breaks. Bob Iger. Yeah. No, I mean, really, it's as true. I always Say, the most, like, actual hillbilly thing about JD Vance is that post that he had to apologize for saying he hated the cops. That's how you know he's a real hillbilly. Okay. But, yeah, while we're at it, you. When you were describing elite Democrats, it remind me of that Jasmine Crockett, the old Crockett Club that's going around now, that could basically be your entire book. Book of her saying, you know, we're done picking cotton, in reference to why she believes you need to have migrants coming into the country en masse. Now, there's a report in Axios that Kamala Harris is seriously considering, like, very seriously considering right now, starting to mount a bid for the White House in 2028. This is, of course, the woman who is tasked with the getting to the bottom of the root causes of the immigration crisis. Crisis as it worsened to historic proportions under the Biden administration amid so many other swirling controversies. Joe Biden can't raise anything for his presidential library right now. There was just a giant piece, I think it was in the Times about that as well. I mean, truly, he can raise almost nothing for his presidential library and may just turn what already is the Joe Biden center at the University of Delaware into the library. So Kamala Harris thinking that she can mount a serious bid for the. The. The presidency. She's taking her book tour to South Carolina next year, telegraphing in Axios that she's serious about it. This seems insane to me, B. Yeah. But of course, weirder things have happened.
- [47:11]
Batya Unger Sargon
Oh, I. I hope she does. I'm like, you know, come, Harris.
- [47:19]
Emily
Oprah. Oh, my gosh, the Oprah Town Hall. I forgot about that. Do it.
- [47:24]
Batya Unger Sargon
I want to see her, like, you know, and Gavin Newsom just taking the gloves. I'm here for it. I love primaries because they get just so brutal. I love that. You know, I hate the Biden stuff. I really. It hurts me. Like, I think I did not do a good job calling out the decline. I was in denial about it because it was. I felt so embarrassed for him. Like, I would go on Fox News and they would prompt me to talk about it, and I would say, look, let's not talk about the. That stuff. Like, let's talk about the policy. The policy is terrible. They have an open border. Like, what's up with that? Let's talk about that. Because I just found it unbearable, like, on a human level, to see this elderly person be so humiliated by people that he thought were in his corner. I still. I find it unbearable like, and the fact that all things, these. These ghouls are now piling on, you know, like, the Jake tappers and whatever, like, acting like he's now their scapegoat, right? Like, they can now, like, just completely dump on him because he'll never have power again, right? And so they can act like they're speaking truth to power, when actually they're just, like, they're literally punching an old man who can't defend himself. And I know that's, like, a crazy wrong way to talk about a president who was, like, the most powerful person on the planet. Obviously, I think his policy was, like, awful, but I truly, I cannot be a good journalist on this, like, mental decline thing. I find it just the humiliation, like, I just feel this, like, vicarious, secondhand, like, and just, I don't know, like, in my culture, like. Like, respecting your elders is such a big deal. And the Democrats, as long as they thought they could get him through and they could use him to hurt Trump, they were perfectly willing to do that. And I feel that a lot of the attacks on him right now are just because he's powerless. Like, it's. I don't know. I find, like, I. I don't think I'm being a good journalist, like, but I can't. I somehow, like, my personality is not enabling me to, like, think about this objectively. I do truly hope Kamala Harris runs again. Not wins, but runs. I just think it'll be so great. And the fact that I feel that way probably means she shouldn't, because, like, like, obviously, like, it'll be terrible. But I do think it's so interesting. Like, I. What do you think about this, Emily? I think that the Republican primary is going to be very bruising. Like, right now, everybody's kind of pretending to get along because Trump is such a powerful character and he has such a strong people, like, try to minimize what he's doing right now by being like, oh, he's this ironclad hold on the party and what have you. Like, like, no. He has a completely lucid theory of the case about how to stop the decline of this country, and he will do everything he can to do it, and he doesn't care about anything else. It's incredible. The use of power here happens to be for things that I really, truly believe in. And so it's, like, amazing to see it. But I do think that there's kind of a very bruising primary that's going to happen. I don't think he's going to, you know, coronate. J.D. vance. I personally think that Vance is going to have a lot of problems in a lot of areas that probably we've, we've discussed, but a lot of, like, larger issues as well. The Holly thing. Did you see this? He put out a new initiative to bolster pro life, I guess, initiatives in the states, and it was reported in Axios. I don't know how accurate it is that the Trump people are very upset about this.
- [51:12]
Emily
Oh, yeah.
- [51:12]
Batya Unger Sargon
If they're not, they should be. Not because, like, you know, I mean, I think Holly's a great senator, but Trump really neutralized the issue by making it clear that he pretty much supports abortion. You know, six to 12 weeks, you know, like he's kind of there, which is where 85% of Americans are, are. And if the Republicans come out and say, we're going to go into 2026, we're going to go into 2028, and like, you know, a national ban on abortion is going to be our number one issue. Like, it's over. Like it's over before it starts. That's what I think. What do you think?
- [51:45]
Emily
Well, yeah, I mean, I saw that report, too, and I assumed, to be honest, that one of the sources in the article slamming Hawley was Chris La Civita, who is kind of known in pro life circles to be one of the people whispering in Trump's ear and all of this. And their political instincts are absolutely accurate. I agree with you completely. I didn't read that Holly's group was trying to be a presidential primary force into starting this group. So I think it, to me felt like, you know, Trump advisors love evangelical Christians until they need evangelical Christians. And, or, I'm sorry, they, they hate evangelical Christians. Not. I shouldn't say hate, but they, they resent evangelical Christians kind of political influences, which can sometimes be damaging. There's no question about it. Until they need them. And then it's like, okay. He. I don't think anything that Josh Hawley announced was super threatening, but I can see why they would be annoyed about it, stepping into the Trump brand. But this is interesting because what I wanted to ask you about next was the Rob Reiner controversy. And this sounds disconnected, but I have to say I was hosting, as usual, the 2 to 3pm hour right after Megan on the Megyn Kelly channel on Sirius today. And when we talked about Trump's Rob Reiner tweet, this is anecdotal, of course, our phone lines lit up, particularly with women, and they were all at least identified as Trump voters. They all said, we are MAGA or I am maga. And this Rob Reiner tweet really pisses me off. Now I imagine the SiriusXM audience is on average a little bit more affluent. But Trump posted on X or in truth Social, I should say shortly after the news broke that Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle had been murdered in their home and their son is the lead suspect. He is in jail being he's being held right now on no bail for. For slitting their throat. Allegedly slitting their throats. Seems like it's a pretty clear cut case here. But Trump said that he heard it was that that Rob Reiner was reportedly he said passed away together with his wife Michelle due to the anger he caused others through his massive unyielding and incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known as Trump Derangement Syndrome. He goes on to say he was known to have driven people crazy by his raging obsession of prom President Donald J. Trump, etc. Etc. Then ended it by saying may Rob and Michelle rest in peace. He's he got asked by this today at the White House. Let's take a listen to his response. A number of Republicans have denounced your statement on Truth Social after the murder of Rob Reiner.
- [54:24]
Batya Unger Sargon
Do you stand by that post?
- [54:26]
Commercial Announcer
Well, I wasn't a fan of his at all. He was a deranged person as far.
- [54:30]
Batya Unger Sargon
As Trump is concerned.
- [54:31]
Commercial Announcer
He said he liked, he knew it was false. In fact it's the exact opposite that I was a friend of Russia, controlled by Russia. You know, it was the Russia hoax.
- [54:40]
Emily
He was one of the people behind it.
- [54:43]
Commercial Announcer
I think he hurt himself in career wise he became like a deranged person. Trump derangement syndrome. So I was not a fan of Rob Reiner at all in any way shape or form. I thought he was very bad for our country.
- [54:57]
Emily
Okay. But the reason that I'm very curious what you make of this is that it's often difficult to separate media controversies when it comes to Trump from real world controversies when it comes to Trump. And I was genuinely surprised to see people upset about the Rob Reiner tweet. And I don't think anybody is voting in 2028 based on the Rob Reiner tweet. Don't get me wrong. But it does open up this question about what the post Trump to your point, Republican primary in 2028 looks like. Does it? What is the character of a Marco Rubio JD Vance running in 2020? So I guess I'm just curious to get your reaction To Trump saying that into this, this very, like, serious, intense conversation happening on the right now. You have Marjorie Taylor Greene on one side, people like Jack Posoback on the other side saying Rob Reiner did hate Trump. He was, you know, paranoid about Russia collusion, which, by the way, is absolutely true. Like, is this important? Is this going to be important, important for Republicans going forward? Does this reflect on anyone else? What is going on? Help, help me think about this. I mean.
- [56:09]
Batya Unger Sargon
Look, the, the, the Rob Reiner thing. Is it confirmed now that it was his son? He's been arrested. Right. And both.
- [56:16]
Emily
Yeah, he's been arrested. He's being held. He was on $4 million bail. Now he's not. There was, there's now a report in tmz he was fighting with his parents parents at Conan o' Brien's Christmas party shortly before it happened. Was acting very odd. Does seem like it's pointing in that direction.
- [56:34]
Batya Unger Sargon
It's just a horrific story. And it's so amazing that how, how rich you get, you know, how successful you get, addiction, mental health, it comes for everybody. Just horrific. Imagine being murdered by your own son.
- [56:53]
Emily
Well, and I kind of think this is why it touched a nerve. My impression is like Boomer Mago women is why it touched a nerve with them, is he's Rob Reiner is just before he was super, super political. He was to so many people, just kind of an icon. He was appointment television. He was a familiar face. And so there's something jarring about seeing the president lash out at him after we just heard he had had his, his throat slit, possibly by his son.
- [57:21]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yeah. Trump's not known for his ability to rise above.
- [57:28]
Emily
It goes back to the John McCain comment. Yeah.
- [57:30]
Batya Unger Sargon
Meet the moment with dignity, if you will.
- [57:33]
Emily
Yes.
- [57:34]
Batya Unger Sargon
There are moments like this where you're like, shouldn't have said that. That sucks. But in my view, you know, night people who know what to say when Rob Reiner is killed, don't take on the entire global economic order, slap tariffs on the entire world and say, screw you, I don't work for you. I work for the American people. It's sort of like two sides of the same coin. I think with Trump, that's.
- [58:02]
Emily
That is a really interesting way to put it. And let me, I'm going to share this tab here. I saw this post that's going viral right now. Conservative Twitter, Twitter. See, when a liberal dies, conservatives behave like adults. Donald Trump. And then it's a gif of the Kool Aid man busting through a brick wall saying, oh, yeah, And I don't mean to make light of obviously this horrible situation, but this is absolutely the Trump that everybody has known and many millions of people have voted for over and over again since the primaries first started in 2016. Bhadia. So it's, I suppose it's, it doesn't necessarily have political ramifications, but I guess it does raise that question of women in particular who have never been conservative. Women have never super been in huge numbers the same as men in love with Trump. I guess maybe it's a reminder of that to some extent.
- [58:48]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yeah. I do have to say, like, when you think about, like, what's 2020 going to look like on the GOP side, you've got Marco Rubio, you got J.D. vance, you got Ron DeSantis. Right. Probably Nikki Haley will throw her hat in the ring. Maybe Josh Hawley, maybe Tom Cotton. None of them would have made this error.
- [59:07]
Emily
Right.
- [59:08]
Batya Unger Sargon
Let's just call what it is. It was not a nice thing to say. None of them would have done that. Right. They're all going to be much higher on the, like, you know, censorship, like saying the right thing.
- [59:19]
Emily
Norms, norms.
- [59:21]
Batya Unger Sargon
And the question is going to be, given that they are more censored, sensitive to those perceptions, are they going to be willing to give a Tom Homan free reign to deport millions of illegals? Are they going to be willing to give a Scott Besant the free reign? Or, you know, Howard Lutnick to, to, to say to South Korea, Japan, the eu we're going to raise the tariffs, so you better open your markets to us or else. Right. Like, it's sort of two sides of the same coin. Like Trump, like, does not give a, you know what? Right. And so you see it in moments like this where maybe we would rather have like a more dignified response. Right. But you also see it in moments where he's willing to tell everybody else to f off he doesn't work for them. Right. And that is a big part of the draw as well, which is why when people go to the voting booth, they don't think about, like, you know, what did he tweet about Elon Omar? What did he say about Reiner? They think about, you know, what has he done for me? Like, how much am I paying for drugs? Right. Like, is there now a factory being built that my son is going to work in? Are there fewer illegals competing with me for housing? That's his legacy. And I think that that's something that a lot of people understand intuitively about him and all of the articles where it's like, oh, now he's really done it.
- [60:54]
Emily
He's done it this time.
- [60:55]
Batya Unger Sargon
He's done it this time. Like, he's not done it this time. You know, even, like me, like when he. He was asked about Tucker Carlson giving Nick Fuentes a platform, right? And he said, well, I guess you have to give him an airing, right? Like, let people decide on their own or whatever it was. And some people were like, oh, you know, that's. He didn't. He didn't make it clear what he was saying, that he was saying, like, no, like you have to give him an airing so people can, like make up their own minds or whatever, which is the free speech argument, which is great. It sounded more like he was saying no, like he has a position, whatever. You know, like, you have to always remember, like, that you have the symbolic issues that elites like us sit around obsessing over and parsing over, right? And then you have just the fact that. Fact that for 60 years our economy was an upward funnel of wealth from the working class into the pockets of the elites. And Trump just took that spigot and turned it around. Like, there's nothing he can tweet or say that will undo that or that will take away the significance of that. He may be the last president in American history who was willing to do that. I hope that's not true, but it is very hard to imagine another political figure who is willing to say not just to Wall street, but to the entire global economic order. Screw you. Cry harder, Libs. I don't work for you. And I think that's really important.
- [62:27]
Emily
Let's. On that note, roll this close clip of Leslie Jones, formerly of Saturday Night Live, talking about ICE on the podcast of Nicole Wallace. I think it's called like the Best People. It is a self defeating. Every single episode it defeats its own title. Unless the purpose was ironic, which of course, it's. It's not. So we can go ahead here and roll Leslie Jones. She's very.
- [62:53]
Batya Unger Sargon
I think it ends. How do you think the era ends, girl?
- [62:55]
Commercial Announcer
This is. I'm hoping.
- [62:56]
Emily
This is what I'm hoping happen that.
- [62:57]
Commercial Announcer
Midterms people come out and vote like crazy to switch it over and then the reckoning comes. That's what I want. All everybody that work for ice, I want them in jail.
- [63:08]
Batya Unger Sargon
I just want a reckoning. I want a reckoning.
- [63:12]
Commercial Announcer
Y' all know y' all did wrong stuff.
- [63:14]
Emily
You know, some of the stuff you did was so wrong.
- [63:17]
Commercial Announcer
I need a reckoning because that's to me, that's the only thing that's going.
- [63:22]
Batya Unger Sargon
To make it right.
- [63:23]
Emily
Right. She also went on a rant that was like, for 20 seconds, bleeped entirely by Nicole Wallace's podcast. Like, literally 20 seconds, just full bleeping noise. Which I'm not going to play for people because it's too hard on the ears. But. But yeah, that's where, you know, it's. It's sort of the. What you were just saying about Trump. It reminds me of the distinction between populism in style and populism in substance. And Jasmine Crockett is somebody who's trying to do populism in style without the populism in substance. Meaning she's saying we have to let people in to come pick American crops because poor Americans won't take those jobs. Leslie Jones, lock everybody up who worked for ICE. And if that's the Democratic Party's response, come 2028, Kamala Harris thinking about running for president, they're in real, real trouble. Who's winning this out? Is it Talarico or Crockett? Like, which direction is the party going? Going in?
- [64:18]
Batya Unger Sargon
It's so funny because they're. Neither of them is, like, in my mind, really a politician. They're just two versions of content creator, right?
- [64:25]
Emily
Totally, totally. But that's what politicians are going to have to be more and more.
- [64:30]
Batya Unger Sargon
Well, are they? I don't know, Emily. Okay, I really want to know what you think about this. In my view, the less online campaign always wins, no matter what.
- [64:41]
Emily
I like that rule.
- [64:43]
Batya Unger Sargon
Like. Like, I don't know, it seems to me like I know exactly the content creators that James Talarico is like, imitating. And I know exactly the content creators that like Jasmine Crockett. Honestly, she's a great content creator.
- [64:57]
Emily
Oh, my gosh. The bad built, blonde, butch body. It was incredible.
- [65:03]
Batya Unger Sargon
She got all the words out. She didn't stutter once. She didn't like poetry.
- [65:08]
Emily
Hello.
- [65:08]
Batya Unger Sargon
Like, you know, Hot Wheels.
- [65:10]
Emily
You know, Governor Hot Wheels.
- [65:12]
Batya Unger Sargon
Governor Hot Wheels. Yeah, she's a great content creator. You know, Like, I don't know, I'm starting to think, you know, I'll tell you, Emily, I'll probably, you know, in trouble for saying this, but, like, I look at Graham Platner, okay. Yeah, the guy is a Nazi tattoo. Okay, first of all, by the way, I'll for sure get in trouble saying that the tattoo he covered it up with is so much worse. Like, it's just. It's so cringe. That stupid wolf, like, give me a break, okay? Like, I I. I had hopes for you before, but then when I saw that little. You could still see the, like, skull sticking out of it. Like, I don't know. I'm sorry. Like, that just, like, really offended me. Honest. Just aesthetic ground.
- [65:55]
Emily
Just as a tattoo.
- [65:56]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yeah, as a tattoo.
- [65:57]
Emily
Okay.
- [65:58]
Batya Unger Sargon
Like, obviously, like, it's so freaking annoying that every conservative get called Zanati and then they have an actual guy with an actual Nazi tattoo and they like, no, he's good. But honestly, Emily, I look at that guy and I'm like, yeah, I kind of want him in there because I think he'll mess things up. You know, he's got his stupid land acknowledgments. But, like, come on. Like, I don't know, Emily. I support kind of Medicare for all. I'm so disgusted with what's happening with the insurance company. Is he more or less likely to make a deal with Republicans to get to put a cap on health care premium raises? I don't know. Like, like, and then I'm like, well, am I bad Jew? Am I a bad. Like, he has a freaking Nazi tattoo.
- [66:48]
Emily
Yeah.
- [66:49]
Batya Unger Sargon
But there's a part of me that's like, I kind of like, can you imagine him, like, with his energy being in there, kind of like, like forcing the issue with all these people who are just kind of like, have been there for so long, they don't care about anything, they won't rethink anything. I don't know. What do you think?
- [67:09]
Emily
Well, yeah, I, I mean, I think the most important demographic to boost the representation of in Congress is class, honestly. And Platner grew up pretty privileged, but he's, he's lived the life after he got out of the military of somebody who's. Who struggled. Just like a lot of guys who struggle after getting out of the military because they're sort of aimless and have. They smoke way too much weed, do too much drugs, and he's ended up in a pretty blue collar job, you know, as an oysterman. And so I think Platner is an example of exactly what you're talking about. He's a disruptor. I don't think. I mean, I think if you, if you're drunk, off duty in Eastern Europe and so blacked out that you get a tattoo and it's not a Nazi tattoo, that's probably remarkable. You're probably one of the only people who would walk out without one.
- [67:57]
Batya Unger Sargon
Wait, wait, wait. Okay, let me just say what I think really happened. I think he got the tattoo. He didn't know it was A Nazi too. But at some point, oh, he definitely knew later. Yeah, he became aware and it was a good story to tell women he was sleeping with or what have you. Oh, hey, check it out. I got this tattoo and I was drunk. Guess what? It's a naughty or two.
- [68:15]
Emily
Haha.
- [68:16]
Batya Unger Sargon
That sucks. But like, at the same time, is that the most important thing about him?
- [68:21]
Emily
Right, right. No. And it's like Dan Osborne, my. I get in fights with my Republican friends about this all the time. Dan Osborne, they have, I think, some of the same consultants and they're both like, obviously going to. Dan Osborne is probably going to be more of a Democrat than a Republican in Congress, but the dude is like literally coming off the factory floor and serve the country. And he has a mindset that I'm not going to agree with most of his votes, but I'm going to agree that they're representing the people that he's supposed to represent. And that's just a healthier system. So it's hard kind of not to root for people who are going to shake up the class dynamics.
- [68:56]
Batya Unger Sargon
Yeah, I think the thing that I really would want to see is like, if you could have a candidate who was like, you know, supports ice, supports the cop cops. Right. But is also like Medicare for all, that person would represent like 80% of Americans. And that's the thing that I find, like, so upsetting is that like, you have one party that's really good on immigration and then one party that's sort of good on health care. It's not great. Right. By the way, have you noticed, Emily, that the left's big move now is not actually Medicare for all, it's anti ice. Like they're going back to their symbolic anti working class crap. And that really, really offends me in a big way. But you know, whoever could get to that spot of being like, we're going to protect working class wages by being very hawkish on immigration, but then we're going to protect working class dignity by being very expansive in how we imagine health care, which is just, just a disaster in this country. That is the sweet spot. And you know, two years ago, if you had asked me, who is more likely to get to that spot, the Democrats or the Republican Republicans? I would have said, obviously the Democrats. I mean, Bernie Sanders in 2015 was a Hawk on immigration. Right. Like, all they have to do is get back to their. But now I think it's actually much more likely that the Republicans will understand how important health care is. Like, I had Senator Schmidt on My show this weekend. And I said to him, can I get you to commit to looking into a government cap on health care premiums like that? They just cannot. You want to take money from Medicare, Medicaid, which they all do. No more caps on premiums. And he was like, sure, that's a great idea. Let me look into that. You know, you would never have a Democrat say if you said to them, look, the American people are really sick of being fleeced. We just need to pause on asylum claims. We need to pause on all immigration. Let's just take a break for a year and see what happens. You wouldn't have a single Democrat say yes to that.
- [71:06]
Emily
I think that's true. But yeah, this has been, this is great. This was like the darkest news cycle that you turned into something. A pleasant conversation.
- [71:17]
Batya Unger Sargon
I noticed that I was the only one drinking even though you promised me. Emily, you don't know what's in here. I have a feeling it's water.
- [71:24]
Emily
Yeah, it's water. No, but you, you will understand this Christmas season has wrecked me.
- [71:31]
Batya Unger Sargon
No, I get that idea.
- [71:31]
Emily
In D.C. it is, is non stop drinking. It's too much. And I'm from Wisconsin, so that means if I hit my limit, then you have a problem. The city has a problem. All right, Baja. Everyone make sure to tune in like my dad did this weekend to Batya on News Nation. Make sure to watch Bhatia. It's such a fun show.
- [71:53]
Batya Unger Sargon
It is a fun show. Thanks so much for having me, Emily. God bless you and protect you. I just love you and thank you so much for having me.
- [72:00]
Emily
Next time before you, when you're on next time I will do a shot and you can hold me to that. I'll do it on air.
- [72:05]
Batya Unger Sargon
I will.
- [72:06]
Emily
All right by you. Have a great night. We will be back with more after party in just one. One moment. Now first though, have you ever taken a look at the nutrition label? On any typical bag of chips you will find a disgusting chemical cocktail. Seed oils, msg, artificial dyes, vague natural flavors and ingredients that sound more like a science experiment than a snack. Because they are a science experiment. Frankly, vanity crisps are part of the growing movement to bring back real food. The kind our grandparents ate before snacks were made in labs. Van De Crisp Crisps contain just three ingredients. 100 pesticide free potatoes, sea salt and 100 grass fed beef tallow. And that is it. No seed oils, no mystery chemicals. Just real food. These chips don't only avoid all the bad stuff. They taste incredible too. They really do. You look at the back of the bag. They're really just three ingredients and they taste so much better than any other chip you will pick up. They are actually my favorite chips ever. My favorite flavor is the sweet Smokehouse barbecue. I love them all though. If you love Vandy, you will also love Masa chips. I love the lime masa chips. I love the churro ones for dessert. It's all great. So if you're ready to give Vandy or Masa a try, go ahead and use code AFTERPARTY for 25 off your first order at vandycrisps.com or masachips.com or simply click the link in the video description or scan the QR code to claim this delicious offer. Don't feel like ordering online? No problem. Vandy and Masa are now available nationwide at your local Shop Sprouts Supermarket. Stop by and pick up a couple of bags before they're gone.
- [73:35]
Commercial Announcer
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- [74:35]
Emily
All right, before we wrap up tonight's show, I did want to take a look back at why the murder of Rob Reiner allegedly at the hands of his own son, who again allegedly slit his throat, slit his mother's throat at their home in Brentwood, California. Why? I think that is so jarring for the country to experience right now. It would be jarring to know that Rob Reiner and his wife had been murdered in their home. No matter what. It's, it's extra jarring to hear the details as they emerge from these early reports. If they pan out that his throat was Slipped by his son.
- [75:17]
Batya Unger Sargon
Son.
- [75:17]
Emily
His mother's throat was slit as well. That his son suffered from a decade plus of serious addiction and at one point homelessness or perhaps at at least one point homelessness. But Rob Reiner, to so many people, what he represents is why this is touching a nerve for a lot of us. Now I'm way too young to have watched all in the Family while it actually aired. I was born in 1993, but somewhere around 2010, maybe 15. So about 15 years ago there was a channel way up on the list. You know, we're Talking like channel 500, something like that. One of those rerun channels that every night played an all in the family rerun Monday through Friday in sequence. So one Monday you would get one week's episode if it were airing, you know, back in the 1970s, then the Tuesday would be the next week's episode that would have aired in the 1970s. And I have no idea why, but my family got into the habit for basically a full year of sitting down around 2010 and watching in sequence all in the Family together as a family, these, you know, wonderful 30 minute Norman Lear episodes again over the course of many, many months, almost an entire year if I'm remembering correctly. And to me it felt very current, but it also felt very different. And this is again around 2010. I was probably a junior senior in high school. It feels like it was around my senior year of high school. But we have a clip here of this is the last episode of. Gosh, I want to say it was like season eight of all in the Family, which was the last season where Michael and Gloria lived at the bunker home together. And this is the last scene of that episode. It's Rob Reiner and Carol o'. Connor. It's hard to watch now, but if, if you can make your way through it, I think it'll be rewarding at the end. We can go ahead and roll the clip here.
- [77:26]
Commercial Announcer
I want to thank you for, for, for all the years you let me.
- [77:29]
Emily
Live here and.
- [77:32]
Commercial Announcer
For all the free.
- [77:33]
Emily
Meals and.
- [77:36]
Commercial Announcer
For all the nice times we had together.
- [77:39]
Emily
I, I know there was a lot.
- [77:40]
Commercial Announcer
Of arguing and fighting, but we, we, we did have some nice times.
- [77:48]
Emily
Yeah, there was.
- [77:55]
Commercial Announcer
You've been like a father to me. Well, hey, you've been just like your son to me. You never did nothing I ever told you to do.
- [78:08]
Emily
Hey Archer, we want you and ma.
- [78:10]
Batya Unger Sargon
To come visit us out there.
- [78:12]
Emily
Ah, well, maybe your mother in law can do that.
- [78:15]
Commercial Announcer
But you know, I think you'd like it out there. Nah, I don't think so.
- [78:19]
Batya Unger Sargon
Fresh. Fresh juice every morning.
- [78:22]
Emily
Well, you know me, I always take the candle. Lots of sunshine.
- [78:26]
Commercial Announcer
Yeah.
- [78:27]
Emily
Where do I bring these?
- [78:29]
Commercial Announcer
Pacific Ocean.
- [78:32]
Emily
Yeah.
- [78:32]
Commercial Announcer
Well, I, I don't like an ocean where the sun goes down. I like an ocean where the sun comes. I'm gonna miss you.
- [78:50]
Emily
Well, listen, I, I'm gonna, you know, I.
- [78:56]
Commercial Announcer
Hey, listen, you just take very good.
- [79:02]
Emily
Care of Gloria and Joseph. Those are two things you never have to worry about.
- [79:07]
Commercial Announcer
Arch. I promise.
- [79:13]
Emily
It was wrenching because what that scene epitomized was what all in the Family worked towards for all of those seasons. Again, this is the last episode of season eight. It aired in March of 1978. And it epitomized, that is sort of the crescendo of what the, the show was doing, which was working through how parents, particularly a father and his daughter and his son in law, were able to overcome a lot of stress in their relationship strife, political differences, cultural differences, social differences, and honestly, just personality differences so often between Archie and Meathead. And that was what the show was about. And to know that Reiner, who was probably most familiar, I mean, he was an incredible director and actor, film actor, but most familiar to people as Michael Stivik on All in the Family, to know that he met his end, as it appears, at the hands of his own son. Oh, there is something so incredibly, incredibly tragic about that. And I have seen many conservatives over the years mount very interesting criticisms of the Norman Lear shows as kind of being insidious for using a character like Archie Bunker, as in some ways, while he's not, you know, depicted as a bad person, as in some ways, as somebody who was a force for bad in the world politically, that you couldn't just have, have, you know, somebody in Archie Bunker's position who was, you know, was fundamentally decent kind of across the board. And those are familiar criticisms of the Norman Lear shows from people on the right over the years. But I was talking recently about, you know, in an interview I did with somebody who had a very Forrest Gump like personal history, professional history, through civil rights marches in the 1960s, somebody was on the right, but, you know, had been at the March on Washington in 2020. Chris Bedford. And I interviewed this person June of 2020, and asked, you know, does it feel worse to you now than 1968? And the answer we expected to get was no, no, this is 2020, right? So there's riots breaking out and, you know, all of the 1968 comparisons are front and center in the discourse. And we Expected to get the answer, no, of course not. You know, there's Robert F. Kennedy, there was Martin Luther King. There's been this. There'd been the string of political assassinations throughout the the 1960s. So, no, it doesn't feel as bad as that. But the answer we got was, it feels worse. And when I watched that scene between Archie and Michael Stivic, I really get why we received that answer during the interview. Because this person explained back then there was almost a patriotism to the left, or there was still this kind of fundamental decency. And I'm seeing right now people on the right pass around these clips of Rob Reiner saying legitimately hilarious, cringy things about Russia collusion. In those fever days of 2016 and 2017 and 2018, he was in the Mueller Report choir on the left among Hollywood celebrities who were just so eager for that Mueller report to drop and prove that Donald Trump had somehow colluded with Russia. And I see that, and I think not the time to be criticizing Rob Reiner for taking seriously the conspiracy theories. The entire major media was spinning up over the course of years, over the course of years against a political opponent of his, Rob Reiner. Whatever you, you think about the guy, he liked the United States of America. He loved the United States of America. And so did Michael Stevic and Archie Bunker. And that's why all in the Family felt to me when I was going through this around 2010, going through the series around 2010, on the one hand, it felt outdated, right? Because there was something so warm at its core that there was, you know, the ties that bound, the ties that bind. You were the through line of just about every episode. And it was the process of getting from point A to point B from division. And again, it wasn't always political. Sometimes it was just personality from division to unity, just in this little family unit. And I think that's just become for so many people, very, very difficult now for, for political reasons, but also for reasons that have to do with algorithmic social media, the media culture itself, isolation and loneliness and high potency drugs, thugs. It's. It's getting really difficult. It's getting really difficult for people. So in that sense, it felt, you know, it felt outdated. Is there something almost outside of our grasp about the America that Norman Lear not just depicted, but captured? And so that's, that's what's, you know, looking back on why Rob Reiner is such a powerful figure to so many, especially baby boomers, I think it's because that's what he represented. So I've been rambling enough tonight. Appreciate everybody tuning in in this very, very dark, dark news cycle. Thank you. This is our 50th episode of After Party. It was great to have Batya here for it. Appreciate all of you for tuning in. We have some great guests coming up. Stay tuned. On Wednesday. You're going to want to be there for for Wednesday we have a big interview. Big interview. So make sure that you tune in in. We'll see you then.
- [85:28]
Commercial Announcer
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