After Party with Emily Jashinsky
Episode: Trump’s Middle East Victory Lap, MTG’s Reality, and Thiel’s Private Lectures, with Spencer Klavan
Date: October 14, 2025
Guest: Spencer Klavan (Associate Editor, Claremont Review of Books; Author, Light of the Mind, Light of the World)
Overview
In this wide-ranging and incisive episode, Emily Jashinsky takes listeners through some of the biggest stories shaping American politics and culture, with a focus on the shifting landscape post-2024. The episode’s central themes include Donald Trump’s recent diplomatic moves in the Middle East and their repercussions, Marjorie Taylor Greene’s evolving role within the GOP and her public image, and the ideological implications of Peter Thiel’s provocative lectures about The Antichrist and the future of technology. Joined by Spencer Klavan, the discussion explores how post-digital authenticity is reconfiguring both political messaging and media, weaving together politics, historical context, and internet culture in Jashinsky’s signature wry, big-picture style.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Trump’s Middle East “Victory Lap”: A Turning Point?
Segment Starts: [03:00]
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Trump’s actions: The episode opens with Emily reflecting on images of hostages being released and families reunited in the Middle East, highlighting Trump’s diplomatic appearances in Israel (including a speech in the Knesset) and Egypt, along with remarks about Marco Rubio, Miriam Adelson, and Italian PM Giorgia Meloni ([03:00]-[05:44]).
- Trump’s candid, sometimes awkward praise for global leaders, and disregard for the political perils of openly complimenting a woman’s appearance, spark observations about how “the male gaze” is back in the news cycle.
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Political implications:
- Biden’s logistical challenge: Biden reluctantly congratulated Trump and his team for finalizing a fragile but historic ceasefire and peace deal, adding to a bipartisan sense of unease about how long this peace can last ([06:30]-[09:00]).
- Time Magazine cover: Trump’s face adorns Time with the headline "The living Israeli hostages have been freed under the first phase of Donald Trump’s peace plan." The deal could become "a signature achievement of Trump’s second term and a strategic turning point for the Middle East." ([09:00])
- Emily highlights widespread skepticism, especially regarding Netanyahu’s future and the potential for an overdue reckoning on Israel’s October 7th security failures.
Notable Quote:
"Everyone has to admit that this genuinely is new. This is a historic, sweeping peace plan...a new chapter in the Middle East." – Emily, [09:50]
Marjorie Taylor Greene’s “Reality”: The Normie Disruptor
Segment Starts: [12:30]
- Authenticity & party friction:
- Emily delves into MTG’s appearance on the Tim Dillon podcast, where Greene distances herself from strict Republican orthodoxy, embraces a “realist” stance on immigration, and admits to breaking with her party over healthcare subsidies and tax credits ([14:19]-[18:00]). Emily argues that, outside of DC, MTG exemplifies the skepticism and normie frustration of suburban, small-business “Facebook moms.”
Notable Quote:
"I no longer want to wear the jersey of the Republican team...I'm just living in reality from here on out." – Marjorie Taylor Greene, [14:19]
- Performance vs authenticity in modern politics:
- Jashinsky reads MTG’s rise as a signal that old top-down party control is dissolving in an era dominated by smartphone video, vertical media, and demands for “intimate, authentic” connection ([18:00]-[20:00]).
- Parties will have to adapt to this new media reality or lose relevance.
Notable Quote:
"Marjorie Taylor Greene is a really, I think, good...canary in the coal mine for the parties about their loss of control." – Emily, [20:00]
Political Communication in a Post-Digital Age
Segment Starts: [22:48] (with Spencer Clavin)
- Shift from 2020 “vibes”:
- Spencer and Emily discuss how political discourse and performance have moved into a “post-digital” phase, where the appearance (or simulation) of authenticity dominates. Trump, despite being an older politician, intuitively fits this medium because he is fundamentally “unhinged” and “authentic” in his approach.
Notable Quote:
"Transition from pre-digital to post-digital media...that sense of authenticity—whether it's genuinely authentic or just the ability to convey that—that's what Donald Trump is a master at." – Spencer, [24:04]
- Endless grievance politics:
- Modern left-wing narratives (“oppressor vs. oppressed”) are discussed as a universal interpretive grid that ignores complexity—explaining the left’s stance on Indigenous Peoples Day and Israel/Palestine.
Notable Quote:
"That way of understanding the world...is where the energy is on the left...All conflicts are mapped onto who is the powerful, 'white man,' and who is the downtrodden, 'indigenous person.'" – Spencer, [24:44]
Are We Returning to “Raw Power Politics”?
Segment Starts: [27:13]
- Historical and philosophical context:
- Emily posits that America may be leaving the "postwar classical liberal era" for something closer to pre-modern “raw power politics.” She references Tom Holland’s and Nietzsche’s theories about Christianity, morality, and the political cycle.
- Spencer introduces the myth of the Furies (Erinyes) as a metaphor for vengeance and cyclical revenge in politics, suggesting that, absent Christianity or republican government, blood-feuding is humanity’s default. The risk is a "zombie paganism," where modernity simply puts "a bucket hat on the zombie of paganism" ([34:21]).
Notable Quote:
"Christianity and republican government represent two actual advances over that default state. And it might be that the only place to go is back...to zombie paganism." – Spencer, [33:31]
Anthony Fauci & The Perils of “Perpetual Preparedness”
Segment Starts: [34:35]
- Fauci’s PBS interview:
- Clip of Fauci warning, “I’m convinced there will be another pandemic...we have to be perpetually prepared.” ([35:03])
- Emily and Spencer critique “perpetual preparedness” as a variant of utopian, “end of history” thinking that sacrifices human flourishing for the illusion of perfect safety.
Notable Quote:
"[Fauci’s] perpetual preparedness is just the end of history...constantly being on alert...a state of perfection, a state of safety...that can only happen in death or after death." – Spencer, [37:18]
Peter Thiel, The Antichrist, and the Catacomb: Tech Eschatology
Segment Starts: [40:25]
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Private lectures and media panic:
- Peter Thiel has been traveling, giving lectures on the "catacomb" (the biblical restrainer of The Antichrist), which have been sensationalized in mainstream headlines as "dark" or "coded" right-wing intrigue ([41:40]).
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Interpreting Thiel’s thesis:
- Thiel positions current “safetyist” technocrats (like Greta Thunberg) as the Antichrist stifling innovation, and portrays generative AI as the new “catacomb” holding the apocalypse at bay, encouraging a deregulatory push for American innovation ([44:03]).
- Emily questions whether Thiel’s arguments are partly motivated strategy to sway tech-skeptic Christians, as the new Christian revival sweeps Silicon Valley.
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Philosophical pushback:
- Spencer, while crediting Thiel’s leadership in the Silicon Valley Christian moment, argues that apocalyptic texts are fundamentally ambiguous, and attempts to “hold back” or anticipate the apocalypse may be misguided: “I don’t think it’s our job to stop the apocalypse...holding back the apocalypse isn’t necessarily the obvious Christian thing to do.” ([54:27])
- Both critique tendencies to project specific policy preferences onto prophetic religious texts.
The Return of the Male Gaze & Media Ironies
Segment Starts: [57:10]
- CNN’s “male gaze” article:
- Emily reads passages from a CNN article bemoaning the apparent return of the “male gaze” in pop culture, social media, and body norms, sparking a humorous and incisive exchange with Spencer ([58:30]).
- Spencer lampoons academic jargon and notes the disconnect between pop-academic commentary and unchangeable human nature. Media and academia, he argues, have devolved into ideologically driven echo chambers, “degrees in talking absolute rot.”
Notable Exchange:
"Didn't we all agree we were through with [the male gaze]? The culprit, I have learned, is the male gaze. It was always there, but now it has stepped back into the spotlight..." – CNN article read by Emily, [58:30]
"Speaking as a male gay, I, too, find it really objectionable when men gaze at me with such desire." – Spencer, [59:20]
Pop Culture Postscript: Hilaria Baldwin's Downfall
Segment Starts: [68:30]
- Bullying or accountability?
- Emily discusses Hilaria Baldwin’s exit from Dancing with the Stars and her ongoing PR struggles over her invented heritage, analyzing it as emblematic of personalities unable to adapt to the post-2020 era where authenticity is prized.
- Baldwin’s “victimization” narrative is critiqued as tone-deaf and emblematic of people still acting out “2020 performance culture,” even as most of the country is “done with that.”
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On Trump in the Middle East:
"If it lasts three months, if it lasts six months, if it lasts a year, what we've just entered is a new chapter in the Middle East..." – Emily, [09:50] -
On authenticity and the new media:
"The incentive for politicians is to...look much more authentic. It's not enough for Chuck Schumer to talk into an iPhone camera...your message has to sound a lot more intimate and authentic." – Emily, [18:40] -
On cyclical grievance politics:
"The politics of vengeance, which is to say blood feuding...that is the default state of humanity." – Spencer, [31:47] -
On the post-pandemic, ‘end of history’ mentality:
"[They believe] we're always going to be on perennial alert...reaching a state of perfection and security that can only happen basically in death or after death." – Spencer, [37:18] -
On tech, eschatology, and AI narratives:
"My take on AI is basically Psalm 115...the real threat that the Bible warns us against is treating things that only look like humans as if they had souls." – Spencer, [48:26] -
On the “male gaze” media panic:
"Didn't we all agree we were through with them? The culprit...is the male gaze. It was always there, but now it has stepped back into the spotlight." – read by Emily, [58:30]
"Speaking as a male gay, I, too, find it objectionable when men gaze at me with such desire." – Spencer, [59:20]
Segment Timestamps
- [03:00] – Trump’s Middle East victory tour and its significance
- [09:50] – Phase One of Mideast peace and the political fallout for Israel’s leadership
- [12:30] – Marjorie Taylor Greene’s shifting rhetoric and the party control crisis
- [18:00] – The smartphone video era and authenticity in communication
- [22:48] – Vibe shift post-2020 (with Spencer Klavan)
- [24:04] – The persistence of authenticity as political currency
- [27:13] – From postwar liberalism to "raw power politics"
- [34:35] – Anthony Fauci on perpetual pandemic preparedness
- [40:25] – Peter Thiel’s lectures on The Antichrist and the meaning of the “catacomb”
- [44:03] – Tech eschatology & Thiel’s theology as strategy
- [57:10] – CNN’s “male gaze” article & gender/culture media panics
- [68:30] – Hilaria Baldwin and the afterlife of fake identities
Tone and Style
The conversation is probing, irreverent, and wide-ranging, marked by Emily’s sharp wit and Spencer’s thoughtful philosophical/historical analogies. There’s a pattern of reflective meta-commentary on not just the news itself, but how news and narrative are changing in the wake of technological, cultural, and political shifts.
For New Listeners
This episode works as a snapshot of “vibe shift” America: the collapse of old political certainties, the rise of new party outsiders, and the culture war’s migration from old media to memes, podcasts, and private Telegram channels. Whether discussing the fate of Netanyahu, the meanings of apocalypse in Silicon Valley, or pop-cultural self-immolation, the hosts blend high and low with incisive humor and open-ended curiosity.
End of Summary