For many school leavers, university seems to be the default option, and doing an apprenticeship or going into the workforce is often seen as a second-best choice. But why? Michael Johnston is a senior fellow at The New Zealand Initiative, and he thinks that the changes in school qualifications could be the opportunity to change that thinking. That's because what will replace the National Certificate of Educational Achievement (NCEA) will include industry-led subjects. Michael discusses the issue with Jesse.