Against the Rules: The Big Short Companion

Episode: Adam McKay is Still Angry About 2008

Date: October 14, 2025
Host: Michael Lewis (A), Co-Host/Producer: Lidia Jean Kott (B)
Guest: Adam McKay (C)

Overview

This episode marks the 15th anniversary of Michael Lewis’s influential book The Big Short and a decade since its Oscar-winning film adaptation. Michael Lewis, now having narrated a new audiobook version, revisits the 2008 financial crisis with producer Lidia Jean Kott and interviews Adam McKay, director of The Big Short movie. They explore the crisis’s enduring legacy, the process of adapting complicated financial material for the screen, and the emotions—especially anger—that continue to color their reflections on the era.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Enduring Importance of the 2008 Financial Crisis

• Michael Lewis sees 2008 as a defining, ongoing influence, not just a historical event.
  • “It has never lost its relevance… The essence of its importance was the feeling of unfairness … Elites on Wall Street doing things they shouldn’t have been doing… When it all goes wrong and everybody suffers, there’s no apparent cost.” — Michael Lewis [01:42]
• The resulting anger and sense of injustice, Lewis argues, have shaped the political climate ever since.

2. Michael Lewis’s Relationship to the Film Adaptations

• Lewis deems himself a bystander to his books’ film adaptations.
  • He appreciates the necessity to “break the thing and remake it” for film.
  • “I had no effect whatsoever on how they made the movie, but they pretended to listen to me. They pretended to care what I thought…” — Michael Lewis [02:55]
• Still, he forged meaningful relationships with some cast and crew, notably with McKay.

3. Adam McKay’s Path from Comedy to The Big Short

• McKay recounts his transition from head writer at SNL to film director, emphasizing his improv roots and creative ambitions.
  • “The big advantage I had was I had come out of that Chicago long form scenic improv scene... all we did every night was improvise sketches.” — Adam McKay [06:43]
• Early works like Anchorman and Talladega Nights always contained hidden layers of cultural and political commentary, even within broad comedy.
  • “Anchorman is actually about the collapse of mainstream news media. Talladega Nights is about this backwards pride of the W. Bush supporters. Stepbrothers was about how consumerism turns grown men into children.” — Adam McKay [11:30]
• McKay describes discovering The Big Short book as a watershed, pulling him toward drama with comedic edges.

4. Adapting the Book for the Screen

• McKay explains the necessity for The Big Short movie to be funny and accessible, not just didactic.
  • Visual and narrative innovations, like Margot Robbie in a bathtub, were born from the need to keep audiences engaged with dense financial material.
  • “I was like, oh my God, this story is incredible… everything we did, even Anchorman, as silly as it is, if you look at the way we begin it with the shot choices… we were really trying to play it high stakes.” — Adam McKay [11:30]
• Lewis and McKay reflect on the memorable technique of directly addressing audience confusion.
  • “If you’re confused right now, so was I when I heard this. And that was really the bell that went off that was putting…” — Adam McKay [15:18]

5. Casting and the Production Process

• McKay describes assembling the cast—Christian Bale, Ryan Gosling, Brad Pitt—as serendipitous, aided by a standout script.
  • “In every case, I met with them before they said yes… I know you know me from xyz, but here’s how I see this. This will be different.” — Adam McKay [18:44]
• The choice of director of photography (Barry Ackroyd) was pivotal for bringing urgency and realism to financial scenes.

6. Christian Bale’s Method and the Portrayal of Michael Burry

• Christian Bale’s uncanny performance as Michael Burry impressed both Lewis and McKay.
  • Bale’s insight: “It wasn’t that complicated. If you watched him, you could see it’s a breathing. He breathes in the wrong places of sentences. And if you do that, you get all herky jerky.” — Michael Lewis recounting Bale [27:10]
• McKay and Lewis reflect on the distinction between actors who are “personality actors” and those who are “real artists.” McKay holds Bale in the highest regard.

7. The Tone of the Movie: Comedy, Tragedy, and Moral Outrage

• The film adaptation strikes a more overtly angry note than Lewis’s original book.
  • “The movie’s angrier than the book.” — Michael Lewis [28:58]
  • “I was really angry with Obama for not prosecuting, not doing the right thing … that was kind of my peak betrayal moment, because I had really believed in Obama.” — Adam McKay [29:49]
• McKay frames his later works (The Big Short, Vice, Don’t Look Up) as a “collapse trilogy,” examining the unraveling of systems and societal trust.

8. Privilege, Perspective, and Voice

• Lewis and McKay discuss coming from very different backgrounds and how that informs their work:
  • “I don’t feel I have the right to be angry… I was raised with incredible privilege… I do have the fairness gene. Injustice, unfairness really upsets me.” — Michael Lewis [31:45]
  • McKay, who grew up poor, recognizes structural failings more viscerally.

9. Mutual Respect and Reflections on Creative Collaboration

• Lewis shares a touching moment: McKay insisted he be included at the Oscars, even if authors are typically sidelined in Hollywood.
  • “In this case… Adam McKay insists that you come on stage and receive the Oscar with us. And I was so… I was really touched by that.” — Michael Lewis [34:23]
• McKay credits the “energy of reading that book” as being “directly in the movie.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Injustice:
  • “Everybody has to live by the harsh rules of capitalism except the capitalists themselves.” — Michael Lewis [01:42]
• On Adapting for Comedy:
  • “If you aim for art and you miss, you end up with comedy. If you aim for comedy and you miss, you end up with crap.” — Adam McKay (quoting Del Close) [11:30]
• On the 'Last Man Out' Theory:
  • “Get everything you can. Get your bonuses, make as much money as you can, screw everything and just don’t be the last man left.” — Adam McKay [13:55]
• On Christian Bale's Method:
  • “If you watched him, you could see it’s a breathing. He breathes in the wrong places of sentences.” — Christian Bale (via Michael Lewis) [27:10]
• On the Film’s Tone:
  • “The movie's angrier than the book.” — Michael Lewis [28:58]
• On Betrayal and Radicalization:
  • “That was kind of my peak betrayal moment… I had really believed in Obama…” — Adam McKay [29:49]
• On Mutual Respect:
  • “I always leave any conversation with Adam McKay feeling like I want to go write something again.” — Michael Lewis [35:51]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:40: Lidia Jean Kott introduces the episode and the new audiobook.
• 01:42: Michael Lewis explains the relevance and anger of the 2008 crisis.
• 06:43: Adam McKay on his transition from SNL to directing films.
• 11:30: Hidden political themes in McKay’s comedies; reading The Big Short.
• 15:18: Discussion of narrative techniques in the movie.
• 17:31: Casting big stars and the production process.
• 23:39: Picking Christian Bale as Michael Burry and insights into Bale’s process.
• 28:58: The movie’s angrier tone and reflection on Obama’s choices.
• 34:23: Lewis recounts being invited to the Oscars stage.
• 35:51: Closing reflections and gratitude.

Conclusion

This episode balances inside-Hollywood storytelling with profound reflections on economic and social injustice. The dialogue between Lewis and McKay is equal parts admiration, candid autobiography, and searing critique of America’s failings before, during, and after the 2008 financial meltdown. Their conversation offers listeners a backstage view of both the creative process and the crisis—and how both continue to shape contemporary culture and politics.