Against the Rules with Michael Lewis: An Interview with Ted Olson
Release Date: November 15, 2024
Introduction
In this poignant episode of Against the Rules with Michael Lewis, host Michael Lewis pays tribute to the esteemed constitutional lawyer Ted Olson, who passed away on November 13, 2024, at the age of 84. Known for his pivotal role in legal battles that shaped American society, Olson's legacy is explored through a heartfelt conversation between him and Lewis. This episode serves both as a memorial and a deep dive into Olson’s influential career, particularly his instrumental role in the legalization of sports betting in the United States.
Ted Olson’s Legacy and Career Highlights
Michael Lewis opens the episode by honoring Ted Olson, highlighting his significant contributions to constitutional law. Olson is celebrated for his role in landmark cases such as Murphy v. NCAA, which led to the nationwide legalization of sports betting. Additionally, Olson's career spanned several decades, during which he argued for same-sex marriage rights, defended Dreamers, and played a crucial role in the 2000 presidential election litigation.
“Ted Olson was involved in the Federalist Society, the largely conservative legal movement that has shaped the Supreme Court for decades to come. He was a complicated and interesting character and one of the most brilliant legal minds of our era,” Lewis reflects at [01:51].
Early Supreme Court Experience
Olson reminisces about his first experience arguing before the Supreme Court, providing insights into the pressures and responsibilities of representing the federal government.
“It is a thrilling and terrifying experience... You're representing the federal government... Everything that you say is the standard is the policy of the United States government. That's a very heavy responsibility,” Olson shares at [06:00].
He discusses his first case, Garcia v. San Antonio Transit, where he advocated for federal authority over state regulations concerning wage controls and labor standards. The case underscored the delicate balance between state sovereignty and federal oversight.
Strategies and Growth as a Supreme Court Advocate
Olson reflects on his growth as a Supreme Court advocate, emphasizing the importance of thorough preparation and understanding each justice's unique perspectives.
“Each Justice would interrupt and ask questions... it's a very dynamic situation and you have to be very well prepared,” he notes at [06:00].
He elaborates on his methodical approach to cases, including analyzing justices' past decisions and participating in moot courts to anticipate and counter potential challenges. This meticulous preparation was crucial in navigating the complexities of Supreme Court arguments.
The Murphy v. NCAA Case: A Defining Battle
The crux of the conversation centers on the Murphy v. NCAA case, a landmark legal battle aimed at overturning federal restrictions on sports betting. Olson provides an in-depth account of how the case came to fruition and the strategic considerations involved.
“We were making an argument that no one has made against this particular federal statute... it's a very significant uphill climb, and it's very rare that it could be done and done successfully,” Olson explains at [27:36].
Background and Motivation
Commissioned by Governor Chris Christie to revitalize Atlantic City's economy through legalized sports betting, the case sought to challenge the constitutionality of federal statutes restricting such activities. Olson highlights the unprecedented nature of the legal challenge, given the statute's 20-year history and widespread support at the time of its enactment.
“It was very, very popular when passed... We're making an argument that no one has made against this particular federal statute,” he states at [34:38].
Legal Strategies and Arguments
Olson discusses the multifaceted legal strategies employed to argue against the statute, including challenging the federal government's authority to mandate states to regulate sports betting. He emphasizes the importance of the anti-commandeering doctrine, which posits that the federal government cannot compel states to enforce federal regulations.
“The principle is that states have the power not to be regulated as states by the federal government,” Olson asserts at [37:46].
Despite facing opposition from major sports leagues and federal entities, Olson and his team persisted, ultimately succeeding in the Supreme Court to legalize sports betting.
Challenges and Persistence
The path to victory was fraught with setbacks, including multiple defeats in lower courts. Nonetheless, Olson commends Governor Christie's unwavering support and the New Jersey legislature's commitment to the cause.
“It took a lot of persistence and faith by Governor Christie and members of the New Jersey legislature that stuck with us,” he remarks at [27:53].
Impact and Evolution of Sports Betting
Post-victory, Olson observes the explosive growth of legalized sports betting, noting both its benefits and unforeseen complexities.
“While so and so will have six free throws or make only four of them. You know, anything that people can bet on, they will,” Olson shares at [40:35].
He recounts surprising developments, such as bets on highly specific in-game events, illustrating the evolving landscape of sports wagering.
Personal Reflections and Final Thoughts
In reflecting on his prolific career, Olson touches upon the responsibilities of representing government interests versus private entities, the nuances of federalism, and the ethical considerations inherent in legal advocacy.
“We have a system of government... a delicate balance between what should be done and can be done at the local level, what the Constitution allocates to Congress to be able to do and where there's space in between,” he explains at [19:09].
Olson's dedication to constitutional principles and his strategic acumen have left an indelible mark on American law and society.
Conclusion: Ted Olson’s Enduring Legacy
Michael Lewis concludes the episode with a heartfelt remembrance of Ted Olson, acknowledging the profound impact Olson had on legal precedents and the broader societal acceptance of sports betting.
“It's clear his legacy will outlive him for sure, if only because every time you place a bet on a game, there's a little piece of Ted Olson in there,” Lewis states at [43:07].
Given Olson's extensive career, including arguing 65 cases before the Supreme Court, his contributions continue to influence contemporary legal debates and policies.
Final Tribute
As Against the Rules wraps up, listeners are left with a deep appreciation for Ted Olson’s contributions to constitutional law and his role in shaping modern American society.
Notable Quotes
-
“It is a thrilling and terrifying experience... You're representing the federal government... Everything that you say is the standard is the policy of the United States government. That's a very heavy responsibility.”
— Ted Olson [06:00] -
“We have a system of government... a delicate balance between what should be done and can be done at the local level, what the Constitution allocates to Congress to be able to do and where there's space in between.”
— Ted Olson [19:09] -
“The principle is that states have the power not to be regulated as states by the federal government.”
— Ted Olson [37:46] -
“It's clear his legacy will outlive him for sure, if only because every time you place a bet on a game, there's a little piece of Ted Olson in there.”
— Michael Lewis [43:07]
Acknowledgments
Against the Rules with Michael Lewis is produced by Pushkin Industries and offers listeners a blend of insightful discussions and in-depth explorations of pivotal moments in American life where rules and trust intersect. For those who seek a comprehensive understanding of the forces shaping fairness and governance in the United States, this episode serves as a compelling testament to Ted Olson's enduring impact.