Against the Rules: The Big Short Companion
Episode: "Michael Burry Speaks"
Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Michael Lewis with Lydia Dean Cott
Overview
This episode is a rare and in-depth interview with Michael Burry, the reclusive hedge fund manager central to Michael Lewis's book The Big Short and its film adaptation. Marking the 15th anniversary of the book and the 10th of the movie, Lewis and co-host Lydia Dean Cott discuss Burry's legacy, the impact of The Big Short on his life, his current views on financial markets—especially his controversial shorts on Palantir and Nvidia—and his insights into systemic risks still present in the financial system today. The conversation also explores Burry’s personal experiences in the aftermath of the financial crisis and his reticence toward media exposure.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. The Elusive Michael Burry: Getting Him On the Show
- Burry has long refused media requests, including from Lewis and Cott. His recent trading disclosures—such as his short bets against Palantir and Nvidia—became public and made media silence impossible, leading him to reconsider his public stance.
- “His reasoning for not coming on the podcast was he wanted to lay low. And he was trending on Twitter for 48 hours. So it was like, what's the point? He can't lay low.” — Michael Lewis [03:11]
2. Recounting the “Big Short” Trade
- Burry was among the first to bet against the subprime mortgage market, pioneering the use of credit default swaps on subprime mortgage bonds—essentially inventing a way to “insure” against the housing bubble for profit.
- “What he did was basically invent, or have Wall Street firms invent for him the credit default swap on subprime mortgage bonds, which is essentially an insurance policy on bonds backed by subprime loans... So there's something a little goofy about it.” — Michael Lewis [04:36]
3. Burry's Unique Approach and Communication Style
- Prefers email to verbal communication for recordkeeping and accountability.
- “Those emails, I think, were the main reason I didn't get sued by my investors...” — Michael Burry [07:15]
4. On the Aftermath for Burry and His Fund
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Despite his unprecedented success, Burry shut down his fund due to poor relationships and dissatisfaction from investors.
- “My investors were generally mad at me even when things went well. I didn't feel at the time I had goodwill with anybody... Even when we made the money, it was, ‘whew, we don't want to go through that again.’” — Michael Burry [12:00]
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No investors apologized for doubting him after his success.
- “No, nobody did. And I didn't expect it. It's Wall Street.” — Michael Burry [13:00]
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Upon reopening in 2013, Burry kept operations small, avoiding institutional investors.
- “I just went to people I knew and some of my own money... If I wanted to, I could have raised billions. But that wasn't my intention.” — Michael Burry [13:21]
5. Clarifying the Media Firestorm Over Recent Shorts
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SEC filings are misleadingly interpreted: Option positions are reported as vastly larger than their real risk/capital exposure.
- “So what they do is they take the underlying shares under those options contracts and they multiply it out by the current stock price… it was two orders of magnitude off. And that happens also with index...” — Michael Burry [17:25]
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Burry also discusses compliance constraints and why he avoids social media and interviews.
- “My compliance... just keeps saying don’t talk to anybody... since the movie came out and this really started happening, there was a frustration building in me to want to say something and I couldn’t.” — Michael Burry [18:27]
6. Why Burry Now Manages Only His Own Money
- Opted out of external management due to passive-investment dominance and concerns about a prolonged bear market.
- “I think the stock market could be in for a number of bad years, and I think it could be a longer bear market more akin to 2000... Today it's all passive money, and it's a lot. It's over 50% passive money.” — Michael Burry [19:30]
7. Burry’s Thesis Against Palantir and AI Stocks
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Argues Palantir’s value is vastly overstated: heavy reliance on government contracts, high stock-based employee compensation, and a lack of real earnings.
- “Let me put it this way. There are I think five billionaires that came out of Palantir because they own Palantir stock and the revenue was 4 billion or less... So the billionaires to revenue ratio was greater than one. And I'd never seen that before.” — Michael Burry [24:21]
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Sees the current AI bubble echoing the dot-com bust; expects a similar arc where investment outpaces actual returns and share price correction precedes the crest of capital expenditures.
- “This bubble looks an awful lot like the dot com bubble... In every prior one was the relevant stock market peak was before you were even halfway done with the capital expenditure.” — Michael Burry [27:12]
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Timing: Believes a correction is likely within two years, aligning his option bet's window.
- “I thought two years would be enough, yes. I think if you're going to buy something now, buy health care stocks, they're really out of favor.” — Michael Burry [29:33]
8. Broader Economic Views: US Debt, the Fed & Safe Havens
- Skeptical about making bets on US debt default: “Countries are very powerful and they can do a lot. The United States is the reserve, has the reserve currency... Betting that they can’t find a way is not something I’d want to do anytime soon.” [35:40]
- Harshly critical of the US Federal Reserve: “I think the Fed has done a lot of damage... I feel we don’t need the Fed. We don’t need it.” [37:08]
- Believes Bitcoin is “the tulip bulb of our time” and “not worth anything,” while holding gold since 2005. [38:51]
9. Personal Reflections on ‘The Big Short’ Experience
- Burry’s willingness to participate in the book was prompted by a desire for full transparency and self-defense.
- “In a way, I was giving you all that stuff defensively. I didn't want you having a... I wanted to make sure you had everything. Full disclosure. Because I thought I didn't do anything wrong, and I wanted you to know that.” — Michael Burry [39:44]
- Lewis praises Burry as a “fantastic teacher” whose peculiar, analytical mind set him apart.
- “You were and are a fantastic teacher, like, a really good explainer of your own thoughts... you don’t mind having views that just would embarrass people who were less sure of themselves to articulate.” — Michael Lewis [40:39]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
On Wall Street’s response to outsiders:
- Michael Lewis [13:04]: “No, nobody did. And I didn't expect it. It's Wall Street.”
(on never receiving apologies from investors)
On the misreporting of financial positions:
- Michael Burry [17:36]: “So what they do is they take the underlying shares under those options contracts and they multiply it out by the current stock price... it was two orders of magnitude off.”
On the “billionaire-to-revenue” ratio at Palantir:
- Michael Burry [24:21]: “Let me put it this way. There are I think five billionaires that came out of Palantir because they own Palantir stock and the revenue was $4 billion or less... The billionaires to revenue ratio was greater than one. And I'd never seen that before.”
On the AI investment bubble:
- Michael Burry [27:12]: “This bubble looks an awful lot like the dot com bubble, which is not really a dot com bubble...what you see in every prior one was the relevant stock market peak was before you were even halfway done with the capital expenditure.”
On the Federal Reserve:
- Michael Burry [38:23]: “Yeah, I think the Fed doesn't do anything very helpful. I think it's the easiest job in the world.”
On Bitcoin:
- Michael Burry [38:51]: “Bitcoin at $100,000 is the most ridiculous thing... It's the tulip bulb of our time. It's worse than a tulip bulb.”
On candid information-sharing for The Big Short:
- Michael Burry [39:44]: “In a way, I was giving you all that stuff defensively. I didn't want you having a... I wanted to make sure you had everything. Full disclosure. Because I thought I didn't do anything wrong, and I wanted you to know that.”
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Introduction to Michael Burry and context of the interview – [02:34–06:11]
- Recap: Burry’s role in the subprime bet – [04:21–06:43]
- Burry’s communication style and its impact – [06:51–08:14]
- Aftermath & closing the fund – [12:00–13:20]
- Clarifying recent short positions & media misreporting – [16:29–18:18]
- Why Burry now only manages his own money – [19:30–21:00]
- Deep dive: Palantir/Nvidia shorts & AI bubble debate – [22:12–29:33]
- Broader views on US debt, Fed policy, and inflation – [35:24–38:51]
- Personal reflections on The Big Short’s legacy – [39:29–41:07]
Final Thoughts
This rare interview not only updates listeners on Michael Burry’s latest market convictions but also gives a personal, unfiltered view of the man behind “The Big Short.” From his rationale on modern tech stock shorts to his cautious outlook on systemic risk, to his enduring outsider status on Wall Street, Burry’s perspective remains as distinctive—and as provocative—as ever.