The Big Short is Big Back

Summary

Against the Rules with Michael Lewis: The Big Short Companion

Episode Air Date: October 7, 2025
Host: Michael Lewis
Podcast Partner: Pushkin Industries

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Episode Overview

In this special episode of Against the Rules, journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis launches a companion series to his seminal book The Big Short. Reflecting 15 years after its publication and a decade after its adaptation into an Oscar-winning film, Lewis revisits the 2008 financial crisis—a cataclysmic event that forever changed the financial and political landscape. The series promises behind-the-scenes conversations with key figures from his book and a deep dive into the enduring consequences of the crisis, the way we tell financial stories, and their ripple effects on society and trust in American institutions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting the Financial Crisis

• [00:06] Michael Lewis recounts his initial ambivalence toward Wall Street, which changed in the spring of 2008 as major banks started revealing catastrophic losses.
• The shock came from leading financial institutions—Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Merrill Lynch—suddenly revealing deep incompetence at managing risk, leading to their collapse and a near-collapse of the entire global financial system.
• Lewis contextualizes the crisis:

  “These people... who were meant to be the smartest in the world at managing financial risk, suddenly look like complete idiots.”

2. The Big Short—Background and Relevance

• [00:34] Lewis describes his book The Big Short, which chronicles the minority of investors who saw the crisis coming and bet against the market, profiting immensely as the system buckled around them.
• The story was retold in a successful Oscar-winning film and now, for the first time, Lewis has narrated the audiobook himself.
• He replays a key dialogue from the book’s characters—a moment of clarity for Steve Eisman:

  “Zero, they said yes?”
  “No, it's a zero.” —Steve Eisman ([01:02])

3. Why Revisit This Story Now?

• [01:14] Lewis explains the rationale:
  • The repercussions of the 2008 crisis continue to shape the present.
  • There are ongoing lessons to extract about risk, trust, and societal fairness.
• The series will explore the crisis through conversations with the people behind the original story, like hedge fund manager Steve Eisman and his “posse” at FrontPoint Partners: Vinnie, Danny, and Porter.

4. Firsthand Reflections from The Big Short Characters

• [02:02] Steve Eisman recalls:

  “After the meeting, guys said, what do you think? I said, what do I think? Somebody just told me how to make a gazillion dollars. I'm ready to go.”

• [02:20] Vinnie on recognizing problems early:

  “There's a problem with the housing market. What you don't want to say is, I've been trying to tell you this.”

• [02:28] Danny expresses the universality (and inevitability) of human error:

  “I was scared. You know, humans are humans. They'll make the same mistakes all over again.”

• [02:34] Porter warns about persistent—and possibly worsening—ramifications:

  “All the consequences of all those things that happened 17 years ago are not only still with us, [they] potentially end up getting a lot worse.”

5. Political Reverberations and Societal Trust

• [02:43] Michael Lewis posits the crisis as a breaking point for U.S. politics, drawing a direct line to more recent upheavals:

  “Draw me a line between the financial crisis and Donald Trump. Was his rise directly a result of the anger that was generated by the financial crisis 1000 million percent.”

• Concerns are raised about the independence—and vulnerability—of institutions like the Federal Reserve:

  “Of course that absolutely can be destroyed.” —Unknown Financial Expert ([03:02])

6. Storytelling and Meaning

• [03:07] Lewis reflects on the importance of how we tell stories about complex financial events:

  “I think also this is the story of how a story gets told.”

• Analogy about the aims of storytelling:

  “If you aim for art and you miss, you end up with comedy. If you aim for comedy and you miss, you end up with crap.” —Unknown Financial Expert ([03:12])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Somebody just told me how to make a gazillion dollars. I'm ready to go.”
  — Steve Eisman ([02:02])
• “Humans are humans. They'll make the same mistakes all over again.”
  — Danny ([02:28])
• “All the consequences of all those things that happened 17 years ago are not only still with us, [they] potentially end up getting a lot worse.”
  — Porter ([02:34])
• “Draw me a line between the financial crisis and Donald Trump... 1000 million percent.”
  — Michael Lewis ([02:43])
• “If you aim for art and you miss, you end up with comedy. If you aim for comedy and you miss, you end up with crap.”
  — Unknown Financial Expert ([03:12])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:06: Introduction—Lewis’ return to Wall Street coverage
• 00:34: The Big Short backstory, film, and upcoming audiobook
• 02:02: Steve Eisman’s Eureka moment
• 02:20–02:34: Insights from Eisman’s FrontPoint colleagues
• 02:43: Discussing the crisis’ impact on U.S. politics and trust
• 03:02–03:12: On institutional fragility and storytelling
• 03:23: Series preview and invitation to listeners

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Tone and Style

Michael Lewis delivers the episode with his signature clarity and wry analytical wit, juxtaposing deep systemic critique with incisive observations from those who foresaw—and profited from—the crisis. Interwoven interviews bring a candid and sometimes darkly humorous human element to a complex financial history.

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Summary

This kickoff episode sets the stage for a series that not only revisits the events and personalities behind The Big Short, but also interrogates how those events continue to shape our financial and political world. Lewis crafts the narrative as both a retrospective and a timely warning: the lessons of the past remain urgent as old mistakes threaten to resurface, and our very trust in the systems meant to protect us is still in jeopardy.

Next episode drops October 14th.

Transcript

[Michael Lewis]

Pushkin. Way back in the spring of 2008, after many years of ignoring Wall Street, I started paying attention to it again. After all these big banks began to announce these massive trading losses. These people, Morgan Stanley and Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns and Merrill lynch, who were meant to be the smartest in the world at managing financial risk, suddenly look like complete idiots. And then one day, the losses grew so large that the banks began to fail and bring the entire financial system down with them. My name's Michael Lewis. I wrote a book about this time. I told the story through the eyes of the relative handful of people who made fortunes from the crisis. They took the other side of the bets made by the big Wall street banks, and those bets paid off when the market collapsed. I called the book the Big Short. It came out in 2010, which is now 15 years ago. Five years later, it became an Oscar winning movie. And now I've narrated the audiobook of the Big Short for the first time. Steve is using his fingers to speak on his behalf. Zero, they said yes? Asked the obviously irritated CEO. Is that another question? No, said Eisman. It's a zero. Why am I bringing this story back now? Well, for one, the financial crisis of 2008 has entirely reshaped the world we live in. And I think there's a lot more we can learn from this event. So that's what we're going to do over the next seven weeks. Here at against the Rules, a companion podcast series for the Big Short, I speak with many of the characters that I followed back when I was writing the book. People like the hedge fund manager Steve Iseman.

[Steve Eisman]

But after the meeting, like, you know, guys thought, said, what do you think? I said, what do I think? Somebody just told me how to make a gazillion dollars. I'm ready to go.

[Michael Lewis]

I also spent some time with Eisman's posse at frontpoint. Partners, Vinnie, Danny and Porter. And what do you say to him when he says, vinnie, what the hell's going on?

[Vinnie]

I go, there's a problem with the housing market. What you don't want to say is, I've been trying to tell you this.

[Danny]

I was scared. You know, humans are humans. They'll make the same mistakes all over again.

[Porter]

All the consequences of all those things that happened 17 years ago are not only still with us, potentially end up getting a lot worse.

[Michael Lewis]

We're also going to unpack a bit the way the financial crisis broke. Politics in America draw me a line between the financial crisis and Donald Trump. Was his rise directly a result of the anger that was generated by the financial crisis 1000 million percent. Do you worry about the Fed's independence?

[Unknown Financial Expert]

Of course that absolutely can be destroyed.

[Michael Lewis]

But I think also this is the story of how a story gets told.

[Unknown Financial Expert]

If you aim for art and you miss, you end up with comedy. If you aim for comedy and you miss, you end up with crap.

[Michael Lewis]

I hope you'll join me for this special behind the scenes series on the making and the meaning of the Big Short. You can get your copy of the Big Short audiobook, newly narrated by me, over at Pushkin FM or wherever audiobooks are sold. Then come back here to against the Rules Episodes of the Big Short companion podcast drop weekly starting October 14th. See you then.