Against the Rules with Michael Lewis Episode: Vegas Sports Bookies on Old-School Betting Release Date: December 17, 2024
Introduction
In this episode of Against the Rules with Michael Lewis, hosted by Pushkin Industries, Michael delves into the enduring world of Vegas bookies, exploring how traditional bookmakers operate amidst the rapidly evolving landscape of legalized sports betting in America. This episode, titled "Vegas Sports Bookies on Old-School Betting," provides an insightful look into the lives of seasoned bookies—Chris Andrews, Jimmy Vaccaro, and Vinnie Maiolo—and examines the foundational practices that have sustained their businesses for decades.
Meet the Old-School Bookies
Michael Lewis introduces listeners to three veteran bookmakers:
- Chris Andrews
- Jimmy Vaccaro
- Vinnie Maiolo
These individuals, rooted deeply in the Vegas gambling scene, share their experiences and perspectives on maintaining traditional bookmaking practices in a modern, technology-driven betting environment.
Personal Journeys into Bookmaking
Chris Andrews' Beginnings
Chris Andrews recounts his early days at the South Point Casino, where he manages the sportsbook from a modest office. His Pittsburgh upbringing, notorious for producing several Vegas bookies, laid the foundation for his career.
Chris Andrews [03:04]: "I don't call us dinosaurs, I call us crocodiles because dinosaurs are extinct. We're crocodiles. We've been around for 80 million years."
Jimmy Vaccaro's Entry into Gambling
Jimmy Vaccaro shares his initiation into the gambling world, inspired by his brother Sonny and his beginnings as a blackjack dealer. His first significant bet and subsequent rise in the bookmaking hierarchy are detailed vividly.
Jimmy Vaccaro [04:17]: "Like the movie the Sting? Yeah, yeah."
Vinnie Maiolo's Early Exposure
Vinnie Maiolo describes his early exposure to horse racing and gambling through Catholic school fundraisers, highlighting the influence of his family and community in shaping his passion for bookmaking.
Vinnie Maiolo [05:33]: "First time I went to the racetrack, I thought I was going to the zoo."
The Evolution of Sports Betting
From Point Spreads to Prop Bets
The conversation transitions to the evolution of betting options. Initially dominated by simple point spreads and moneylines, the sportsbook landscape has expanded to include a myriad of prop bets, thanks to innovators like Jimmy's cousin Hart Manteris.
Jimmy Vaccaro [24:00]: "The biggest push in the first 40 years, of 49 years that I've been involved, is when Perry scored the touchdown."
Introduction of Prop Bets
The introduction of prop bets, such as the famous "Refrigerator Perry" touchdown, marked a significant shift in the betting industry, enhancing the market's appeal and complexity.
Chris Andrews [23:40]: "I think his [Hart Manteris] played the first one, and it was one of those. And he'd tell you the story."
Managing Bets and Smart Bettors
Setting Limits
Chris discusses the importance of setting betting limits to manage risks, especially concerning high-stakes or edge players. While limits are generally fixed, there's flexibility to adjust them based on a bettor's reliability.
Chris Andrews [30:48]: "But you have to have some limits."
Handling High-Stakes Bets
Both Chris and Jimmy share anecdotes of handling substantial bets from notable figures, emphasizing the delicate balance between accommodating bettors and managing potential risks.
Jimmy Vaccaro [32:14]: "The biggest bet I took was Carl Icahn. He bet $2.4 million on a moneyline bet, and he's a pain in the ass."
The Impact of Legalization and Modernization
European Influence and Corporate Integration
Chris elaborates on how the influx of European bookmakers has introduced corporate practices into the traditionally informal American bookmaking scene, altering the industry's dynamics.
Chris Andrews [33:08]: "But I think it's affected the business on a broader scale. I think a lot of these guys came in from Europe."
Technology and the Future of Bookmaking
Jimmy envisions a future where artificial intelligence and computerized systems dominate sports betting, reducing the need for human bookies. He also anticipates a surge in youth participation as legal betting ages down.
Jimmy Vaccaro [38:24]: "There'll be no human beings running it. It'll be all computerized."
Sustaining the Old-School Model
Adaptation and Resilience
Vinnie proudly asserts the longevity and adaptability of their traditional bookmaking methods, attributing their sustained success to the ability to evolve while maintaining core practices.
Vinnie Maiolo [37:51]: "Call us old school. Yeah, well, I take that as a compliment because of the fact that here we are combined 150 years."
Challenges from Modern Betting Platforms
Chris discusses the competition posed by modern betting platforms like DraftKings and Fanduel, which cater to less experienced bettors, contrasting them with the sophisticated approach of established bookies.
Chris Andrews [35:19]: "I think right now, I think we're on the right side of it. Somebody told me one thing is your business model is not sustainable. I've been doing this for six decades."
Looking Ahead: The Future of Sports Betting
Michael and the bookies speculate on the trajectory of sports gambling over the next few decades. The consensus leans towards increased automation, greater accessibility for younger bettors, and potential regulatory changes shaping the industry's landscape.
Jimmy Vaccaro [38:45]: "It's getting there. Now, I would say in five years, what you'll get is like you'll go to a sportsbook, you'll make your bet. But there might be three human beings because you need someone like, you know, whatever."
Conclusion
Michael Lewis wraps up the episode by reflecting on the invaluable insights shared by Chris, Jimmy, and Vinnie. Their stories underscore the enduring allure and intricate dynamics of old-school bookmaking in Vegas, highlighting both the challenges and the timeless strategies that keep their businesses thriving in an ever-changing industry.
Vinnie Maiolo [37:51]: "If we didn't make adjustments, then we would be gone."
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
- Chris Andrews [03:04]: "We're crocodiles. We've been around for 80 million years."
- Jimmy Vaccaro [04:17]: "Like the movie the Sting? Yeah, yeah."
- Vinnie Maiolo [05:33]: "First time I went to the racetrack, I thought I was going to the zoo."
- Jimmy Vaccaro [24:00]: "The biggest push in the first 40 years, of 49 years that I've been involved, is when Perry scored the touchdown."
- Jimmy Vaccaro [38:24]: "There'll be no human beings running it. It'll be all computerized."
- Vinnie Maiolo [37:51]: "Call us old school. Yeah, well, I take that as a compliment because of the fact that here we are combined 150 years."
Final Thoughts
For those unfamiliar with the inner workings of Vegas bookmaking, this episode offers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the industry's roots, its evolution, and the personal narratives of those who have been instrumental in shaping its course. Michael Lewis effectively captures the essence of old-school betting while juxtaposing it against modern trends, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of what it truly means to be a bookmaker in today's America.
Produced by:
- Host: Michael Lewis
- Producer: Lydia Jean Cott
- Production Team: Catherine Girardeau, Ariella Markowitz
- Editor: Julia Barton
- Engineer: Sarah Bruguer
Listen on: iHeartRadio | Apple Podcasts | Pushkin FM Plus
Note: Advertisements, introductions, and non-content sections have been omitted to focus solely on the episode's core discussions and narratives.