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- [00:01]
Kevin Dunn
Hi, folks. Welcome to another episode of agency unfiltered, the HubSpot Solutions Partner Podcast. I'm your host, Kevin Dunn, and Agency Unfiltered is a weekly web series and podcast that interviews the owners, founders and executives of agencies and services providers from around the world about whatever it takes to grow and scale. This week we have on Matt Smith, CEO and founder of 1406 Consulting, here to talk about two things. First, his team's entry into the HubSpot partner ecosystem via the old sales partner program, which we now know is the provider program. And so we talk about 1406's origination and beginnings as an agency, how they started as a HubSpot partner, and how it's navigated the ecosystem up until today. And second, we talk about tech stack and platform consulting and how important it is for partners to go to market with a recommended tech stack for their clients. And so we talk about Matt's approach to building that list, the qualification process he uses in determining what apps and integrations he wants to add to that list, and the relationships he's made and what he builds with the app partners themselves. And we also talk about how this manifests into the 1406 sales process from discovery questions to inform his recommendations for prospective clients. Objection. Handling and navigating pushback or potential aversions to increase software costs to help accelerate and eventually close these sales. This is another episode of Agency Unfiltered. Hey, Matt. Welcome to Agency Unfiltered. How are we doing?
- [01:54]
Matt Smith
Doing great today. How about yourself?
- [01:56]
Kevin Dunn
You know, not too bad. Happy Q4. How are the early results trending for 1406?
- [02:01]
Matt Smith
It's looking strong. We're excited for Q4. It's going to be a good end of the year.
- [02:06]
Kevin Dunn
Good for you, man. That's awesome. Well, hope. Here's to a fruitful Q4. Hopefully everything pans out well and you set yourself up for New Year.
- [02:12]
Matt Smith
Thank you.
- [02:13]
Kevin Dunn
Of course. Now, Matt, we're here to talk about something that, you know, a number of partners are wrapping their heads around, are looking to, you know, help, consult and guide, and, you know, have some strategic insights for their clients. And that's around platform and tech stack and integrations. But before we get into that, I think it's worth calling out, you know, when we have partners on the podcast, we. We don't oftentimes have businesses that came in through the initial, like, sales partner program. And so, but. And I'm led to believe that 1406 has. That's where you came in and that's your entry point into the HubSpot ecosystem. And so I'd love to. Again, not a perspective we get a ton of. So I'd love to hear that entry point and your path through the HubSpot Partner Program as a sales partner.
- [02:58]
Matt Smith
Yeah, happy to talk about that. It was a pretty cool experience. So the journey for me began in the summer of 2017. I had started doing business development for a company, a small company in the automotive industry that didn't really have any kind of a sales ops process and they were really struggling to forecast and manage their pipeline for revenue growth. They didn't have a CRM in place and the arrangement I had worked out was I was going to get paid commissions based on helping to increase revenue. So I needed a way to measure what was going on and what I was affecting. Right. So over a weekend I researched, was looking for free CRM platforms online and found at the time, kind of the early sales Hub tools. Taught myself the CRM actually by watching Academy videos and setting up a trial team.
- [03:48]
Kevin Dunn
Good way. Two minutes into the episode you're already buttering me up. That's perfect. Maybe some, maybe some Kyle Jepsen content, you know, our man, most likely.
- [03:56]
Matt Smith
Yeah, yeah, no, but seriously, like I spent, I spent a weekend, you know, probably like 14 hours a day going through that stuff and took the random spreadsheets of information and contacts and clients that they had imported it all, set up some dashboards and by that following week I went in and took the sales team and the management through. Here's what I've set up, here's how we're going to use it. Built out some pipeline dashboards and started running sales meetings, status meetings, using HubSpot every week and over four months. After four months, we had grown top line revenue by about 50%. And a lot of that came from just running a strong sales ops process and having visibility into key deals through HubSpot and Simple Things like not forgetting to invoice clients when they sign a deal, things like that.
- [04:44]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, yeah.
- [04:47]
Matt Smith
So how did I join the partner program? So while I was doing all of that, I obviously was on the HubSpot website quite a bit and saw a CTA that just asked, are you a sales consultant? Apply now to join the HubSpot Sales Partner Program. Which led to me becoming one of the, I found out later, one of the first HubSpot sales partners. You probably know as much about it as I do. It was a program, basically. My understanding as HubSpot was really starting to roll out Sales Hub, wanted to expand market Adoption of that with sales organizations. And there's a lot of people out there who are solely sales consultants and really focus on working with sales teams. And I think a lot of the traditional marketing agency partners didn't have that same kind of background.
- [05:30]
Kevin Dunn
So I think that was also just, yeah, the, you know, the inflection point of HubSpot product. Right. Obviously the partner program was very much skewed towards marketing agencies, inbound marketing services because the two. The tools skewed marketing. But as you know, the software became more, the functionality became more broad, became like, you know, a sales hub and some other things. And yeah, we, you know, it was a different type of business that would be able to yield the types of services. Right. That, that would be beneficial for customers of ciso. Yeah, so it makes sense. And so, I mean, Matt too, it sounds like you found HubSpot CRM as like an in house biz dev was able to establish. You know, here's our CRM of record, here's the process around it, here's our sales ops function, here's our reporting capabilities. And it went so well. You what, signed up through that CTA because you're like, hey, maybe I could do this as like a consultancy, you know, of business.
- [06:24]
Matt Smith
Yeah, it was, hey, this sounds interesting, right? I talked with Sam Belt was helping get that up and running. If you know Sam, he's been around HubSpot for a long time.
- [06:32]
Kevin Dunn
Long time. HubSpot. Yeah.
- [06:33]
Matt Smith
And he really helped me out with, you know, how to approach this, how to get the most out of the.
- [06:37]
Kevin Dunn
Tool, how luscious were his locks at that point. I don't want to derail us, but I mean, where was, where was the, where was the hair at that point in time?
- [06:44]
Matt Smith
I will just say his, his photo on his signature, you know, block of his email did not match the.
- [06:51]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, it had grown. It had grown. Yeah. Since the headshot. Understood.
- [06:54]
Matt Smith
It's getting long. Yeah.
- [06:55]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah.
- [06:56]
Matt Smith
So anyway, so we, you know, as I'm working through that, I'm, I'm still consulting. Right. I'm independent and that's actually kind of how I end up with the company name. 1406 Consulting was. I just needed a way to invoice for those commissions that I was trying to chase down and needed, needed to set up an llc.
- [07:14]
Kevin Dunn
Yep.
- [07:15]
Matt Smith
And needed a name to use for that. Wasn't planning to have a website at the time or anything. And I had done a number of like Ironman races and triathlons and stuff. And so the 1406 came from the 140.6 miles in the Ironman triathlon. I love that, love that random fact. But as I'm doing that, I'm talking with other people I know that are business owners, people at different companies. And I sort of have a few people as I'm talking about to say, you know, we could actually use help with that. Could you do that for me too? So started to get some benefit out of that and people would say, you know, doesn't HubSpot do marketing? And I would say, you know, I think so. And they, you know, wanted me to help with marketing. So I ended up asking my sister who had spent 10 years in agency land prior to that working in marketing agencies, actually joined me and helped me, you know, as I joined the full, you know, marketing agency program. At that point we start having more opportunities coming in. She helped me learn the agency side of things and really grow that part of the business.
- [08:14]
Kevin Dunn
No, that's great. So start as an independent consultant. But then, yeah, finding ways to expand the team, but also the scope and the degree of expertise, especially across the full hostile platform. Yeah, I love that. And so, and so Matt, where or how does 1406 operate today? What's the go to market? How is your menu of services continued to evolve? What type of work do you provide your clients? So where are you at today?
- [08:38]
Matt Smith
So today it runs a gamut. We do a lot of HubSpot implementation projects, work closely with a lot of sales reps. HubSpot will tackle some of the more complicated projects, often that require not just implementing HubSpot but they also need some type of an integration. Whether it's kind of a standard, off the shelf, third party software integration. With HubSpot, they need something custom, you know, built in terms of an integration because they're in a unique space. So we do a lot of those. We do, you know, branding traditional marketing agency things. So branding website design. Do some, some terrific website design projects and yeah, just love working with, with teams that have hard projects to solve.
- [09:19]
Kevin Dunn
That's great. Yeah. Hey, we're here to solve the complicated problems. I love that you hear more and more of that as well. Just knowing that the, the customization opportunities like the really interesting one, ways in which you can configure HubSpot. Right. That that continues to evolve as well. And so yeah, coming in and solving those complicated problems sounds like too when integrations are connecting it to other, you know, systems is at the center of it. You mentioned custom integrations. Have you. Has 1406 taken a look at the custom Integration accreditation.
- [09:51]
Matt Smith
Yeah, so we did that actually earlier this year. So we are custom integration accredited, I guess is the right terminology. We did that process. It was pretty interesting, you know, and kudos to you and the team that put that program together. Pretty rigorous. Had to submit multiple examples of live in production custom integrations we'd written for clients. You know, it's not, we connected this thing to that thing using Zapier. It's got to be, you know, you've actually written software, you're hosting some things, you're, you're paying attention to quality and operational stability of the platform. So yeah, that was a pretty cool process and we're excited to see more opportunities coming for that.
- [10:33]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, that's great. Congrats. I mean again, I know it's meant to be rigorous. I think as you mentioned, I know it's fairly time intensive as well. But to your point, it's not just, hey, how do we connect two systems with a zap? But it's much more comprehensive and much more custom development focused. So anyways, huge accomplishment and that's awesome to hear. So congrats on the award and the accreditation.
- [10:53]
Matt Smith
Thank you.
- [10:54]
Kevin Dunn
Now Matt, as you operate in that space, right. Helping solve the complicated problems, integrating HubSpot into a tech stack, where and how should partners be, you know, guiding their clients on designing a tech stack? Right. So, and we also know the Marketplace, you know, thousand plus, 1500 apps in there as well. And so just 1406 help build tech stacks for their clients. Are you just implementing and integrating HubSpot into what already exists? And so at what, what point or where should partners be looking to operate as it relates to tech stack consultancy? Does that make sense?
- [11:35]
Matt Smith
It does, yeah. Good question. I think it depends a little bit on the client. Right. So you, you always want to have, especially early in the discovery part of working with the client. These are things you want to understand early on. You don't want to wait until you've already started the project to find these things out.
- [11:52]
Kevin Dunn
So.
- [11:52]
Matt Smith
And it depends on what type of team you're working with, you know, how large are they, is it sales hub, is it marketing hub? Is it a combination of growth suite and it's knowing the things to ask about. For us, it's based on experience. Right. Some of it lessons learned the hard way, others just thinking proactively. Right. Getting to be more and more of that, but maybe we scratch that. That didn't make a lot of sense anyway.
- [12:20]
Kevin Dunn
I didn't ask the question tremendously. Well, let me, let me take it Back to all, I'm going to ask a question from scratch and then I'll set you because, yeah, I kind of went all over the place. No matter in that area in which 1406 operates and works with their clients, what role do you and what role should other partners be looking to play in helping their clients design a tech stack on and around HubSpot? Right. I know, I can imagine there's a number of variables, but when 1406 enters an engagement with a client, are you bringing a recommended tech stack that they should have around HubSpot, or are you looking to integrate or implement HubSpot into an existing tech stack? Right, so it's like, what's the order of operations and how can you take advantage of that full app ecosystem around HubSpot? You know what I mean?
- [13:05]
Matt Smith
Yeah, I do. Good. Good question. So we have, we have already established a tech stack of tools that we know that we are either certified as a partner or a vendor with those, with those vendors or that we've used extensively. And we're confident enough that we would recommend it and could help the client with implementing. So we go in with that in our back pocket. It's on our website. This is our recommended tech stack, the tools that we use that we think work well with HubSpot. But you don't lead with that, right? As, hey, if you, it's not, if you want to work with us, you have to implement all of these tools. You know, we, we're successful with this because we approach it from an advisory role. So I go back to what HubSpot's Dan Tyre taught us in the line boot camp a few years ago. The legend, yeah, he was on your pocket. He said, you know, you're not making sales calls, you're making helping calls. Right. So I still treat it that way. Right. And so I'm asking questions, trying to discover what their environment looks like, what kind of problems do they have? We're not trying to sell them a bundle of software. Right. We don't require, we don't mandate any of these things in order to do an implementation. So the goal really is to help HubSpot fit as smoothly into their business operations as possible and to solve problems for them. As you're doing that.
- [14:29]
Kevin Dunn
So it's, it's, it. Let me know if this is a fair reflection back, but it's like you have your list of preferred apps or vendors, right? Hey, we've, we've used these, we know how they operate, we've seen the value, but you don't necessarily lead with that. So it's like balancing, hey, we know the apps and the vendors we'd want to partner with if the need arises, but it's really going to be, you know, like solution based on the client needs or what we uncover in the discovery phase. So it's some, some blend of those two things.
- [14:56]
Matt Smith
It is, it is. And for example, it might be if I'm talking with a sales leader who's got a team of 100 plus sales reps around, around the country and we're doing requirements and I might say, okay, as far as phone calling, right. How do your sales reps make phone calls right now? Do they use their cell phones? Do they use a desk phone that the company provides, are using some kind of a VoIP system and it might say, actually they just use their own personal cell phone, say, okay, are you happy with that? Do you have visibility into how many calls they're making, who they're calling, when it happened, what was the outcome, what kind of call? Are they just leaving voicemails? Or do you have some corporate objectives where you really need better visibility into that? Do you want them calling on a company number, Right. Instead of on a personal device? If they're happy with. No, no, they can just keep calling on their own cell phone then. Okay, great. Hey, if that ever changes, there's some tools we can recommend. There's some great things built into HubSpot now with calling directly out of HubSpot, receiving calls, voicemail, everything. If they say, you know, well, actually we want something that'll automatically track the calls in HubSpot, but they need to be able to call from a desk phone because they're in an office. Then we have tech options for that. Right. So you need to discover what are they doing now? Are they happy with it? Sometimes they haven't thought about it. So it'll be, well, we want to switch to a company sponsored phone system. Okay, great. Well, we can use this, this and this. Now, when they're making calls, do they also need the ability to get text messages back to that same number from the people they're calling? Oh, yeah, they actually will need to be able to do that. Okay, well then that means we need to focus on one of these two options.
- [16:44]
Kevin Dunn
So it's like branching logic based on the answers to these questions. It's going to send you on the right app, Right?
- [16:50]
Matt Smith
Exactly right.
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Kevin Dunn
Integration. Yep, 100%. So it's really not guess who, you know.
- [16:53]
Matt Smith
Yeah, it's not a one size fits all. You need to understand Their business.
- [16:57]
Kevin Dunn
And it sounds like too right. You have these questions ready to go to help uncover the need. And so do you have. It's almost like a sales playbook or a line of questions for every app category or preferred vendor that you work with. Like what are the calling was a great example. What are the other common integrations that you would run through that sort of discovery process?
- [17:18]
Matt Smith
Yeah. So phone is a good one. Right. Because you've got similar questions for. So it depends on what hub. Right. Or what. What business.
- [17:26]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah.
- [17:27]
Matt Smith
If it's, if it's service Hub. Right. For example, they might have similar questions, but you might. It might slant more towards. Tell me about your incoming calls. Is it a central 800 number and then there's extensions or take option one or option two. So again it depends a bit on the hub and then we try to go through these different areas. So to answer your question, some of those sort of key types of tech stack items or sort of checklist items you need to have a solution for are phone system. I would say meeting transcripts, analysis, reporting. So meetings. Right. So we work with gong. We also obviously work with sales enterprise. Right. Within HubSpot can do a lot of that. Text messaging, SMS. So there's multiple vendors there. Quoting and CPQ and document signatures. Right.
- [18:22]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, big one.
- [18:23]
Matt Smith
Paid advertising. There's vendors that work there for both ABM B2B advertising and consumer ads. You've got web analytics, so things like hotjar or Lucky Orange Heat mapping. Yeah, exactly. Lead prospecting. Everybody's heard of zoom info. There's other tools out there as well. Dashboards with Databox, our friend Pete Caputa. Right, of course. So always want to have some data box capabilities and then project management things like ClickUp and other tools. So I'm missing some things there, but.
- [18:58]
Kevin Dunn
That'S, that's kind of those. And I think you made up a really good point too in that, you know, hey, these are the preferred apps or like the integration, the common integrations that we can help consult with. But it's not just having discovery questions based on each app, it's also by Hub or use case. Right. Because yeah, maybe the same calling integration may, you know, be a fit for this client. But if they have sales Hub versus Service Hub, well, the discovery questions or the value propositions you seek to hit are, are going to be a little different. So that's a really important call.
- [19:28]
Matt Smith
Yeah, it's really around what problem they're trying to solve. Which gets back to why are they implementing HubSpot in the first place. Or maybe they already have HubSpot and they're looking for help improving what they're doing. They might be already up and running.
- [19:41]
Kevin Dunn
How often do you or does the team refresh or audit that list of apps that you recommend or work with? What does the qualification process look like if a new app hits the marketplace or you're trying to add a new category to your list? That. What is like the vetting or qualification process look like in that way?
- [20:01]
Matt Smith
That tech stack in our list of vendors and partners that we work with tends to update every couple of months and about half the time it's because I'm talking with a client or a prospect and they bring up a tool that I've never worked with before. You know, I think one of the. One of the things I missed on my list here was. Was webinar platforms.
- [20:20]
Kevin Dunn
Sure. Yep.
- [20:21]
Matt Smith
More and more of that since. Since COVID And so there's a couple of webinar platforms that we've started to work with. So there's always something new coming up. Clients have something I've never heard of before and we'll check it out and vet it and it looks great and they've got, you know, we look to see do they have a good support process, do they have a way to get help? Like we are spoiled with HubSpot and the kind of support documentation, knowledge base, all the things you get there. So we're looking for something similar. Right. If we're going to recommend it alongside HubSpot, it needs to kind of live up to that same level of expectation they've got that they've got a partner program you can tie into, so you've got people to get help from. Then we'll add things to the list and use them when it's appropriate.
- [21:04]
Kevin Dunn
And so are you. Is everything on the list of apps that you have in kind of your preferred stack? I know you mentioned a few of them. Hey, we're certified in. But are you members of these additional partner programs as well? And is that the recommended move for other partners? How do you maximize or take advantage of the proliferation of partner programs is not just the list of integrations or apps.
- [21:27]
Matt Smith
100% you should join those programs. I think you have to stay focused on what's your core business. For us, our core business is CRM consulting, sales marketing service, website branding. We don't go out and implement salesforce. We're not a multi CRM partner. So we focus things around HubSpot. So we deal with. With tools that work well with HubSpot if I got sidetracked trying to promote and sell, you know, each one of these different tools and vendors, I would lose sight of my key, my key and core business, and it's not worth it.
- [22:04]
Kevin Dunn
So it sounds like, yes, right. Take advantage of these programs, but not, not to the point where you're distracting yourself or your focus from like, the core areas you serve, the services you offer. Right. So, yeah, it's.
- [22:17]
Matt Smith
Yeah, these are things to help. When I was thinking about what would be a good topic to discuss, it goes back to, I think you and I spoke about from Partner Day at Inbound a month or so ago. One of the key messages there really was partners, please find ways to work together in the ecosystem. Right, yeah.
- [22:34]
Kevin Dunn
Partners and solutions. Partners and app partners.
- [22:36]
Matt Smith
Right, yeah, exactly. And that really resonated with me because I said, that's one of the things we've done from the beginning. Right. And I think it's key to how we've been able to scale and grow the business, but also to do it profitably. So being able to do that and have this set of partners and technology vendors that you believe in that are effective, you can implement them where needed, but you can't make your core business secondary to those things because you may find that six months from now, HubSpot has added functionality that replaces one of them. So that's not an uncommon thing. So you need to be able to always know what does HubSpot have to offer in this area? Because the HubSpot capability may be what they need. You can make phone calls through HubSpot for years. So the existing HubSpot functionality for things may be what they need. It just comes down to the specifics of their business, what problems they're trying to solve.
- [23:38]
Kevin Dunn
Yep. That's a good point too, is that it's, I mean, you know, I think you'd mentioned too, every couple of months we're going back through kind of that preferred, you know, list of vendors. And so, yeah, maybe in some cases. Right. The HubSpot, the functionality native in HubSpot is one of the, you know, recommendations at the end of your kind of like branching, you know, the decision tree of discovery questions. Right.
- [23:57]
Matt Smith
Yeah. We always start with, does the HubSpot functionality cover what they need?
- [24:01]
Kevin Dunn
Sure.
- [24:02]
Matt Smith
And you have to keep an eye on the betas, the new beta features coming out, because it changes rapidly.
- [24:07]
Kevin Dunn
But I know it moves really fast. I know it moves fast.
- [24:10]
Matt Smith
It does move.
- [24:10]
Kevin Dunn
Life moves pretty fast now for the clients, like in the conversations you have with prospective clients or like new clients and you're coming in and based on the answers you got in the discovery phase, you have kind of some solutions that you want to propose in addition to HubSpot. Do you ever run into the case where these businesses or have like price aversion or cost aversion to like a growing list of software subscriptions? Like knowing that there's probably going to be not just HubSpot, but this tool and this tool and this tool and this tool. Like how do you navigate that conversation? Do you receive pushback? Is it frequent? Does it come up at all? But, but what's your approach there if it does?
- [24:52]
Matt Smith
Yeah, cost is always a consideration. Right. And it's, it's actually one of the reasons that we pay attention to this early in the discovery process. So it's not a surprise. Right. After they've already gotten budget approval and think that the wheels are turning, the project is running, you don't want them to have to go back and ask for additional budget again after they thought they were done with that price.
- [25:14]
Kevin Dunn
Speaks to the importance why you want to have these conversations early. Right?
- [25:18]
Matt Smith
Early. And so one of the reasons why we have multiple options for things in the tech stack is that some of those skew towards a lower price point. Right. Some have more enterprise type features and if you can give them two or three options, great. But they'll, you know, if you do that early, they'll look at it. You give them the pros and cons and they'll make a business decision. Right. Just based on the level of importance. Some things are nice to have, some things are a must have, but you're better off addressing it up front than trying to deal with a surprise later because that, that's not going to leave a good impression.
- [25:51]
Kevin Dunn
Yep. Uh, yeah, I mean once the, once the, the ship has sailed on seeking budget approval, but then, you know, some wires got crossed but oh, enabled to be able to do that. Oh, you actually, you know, might want to add this, you know, additional piece of software, but then that, you know, negates the budget that they've already produced. Yeah, I think to your point, having it come up early, but it sounds like too cost and price and budget, like these are things that have to, you know, be sorted out in that discovery phase. Again, we keep talking about the branching logic and what you're going to end up recommending, but it sounds like, you know, cost or budgets, one of those, those branches.
- [26:23]
Matt Smith
I'm sure somebody could build a workflow and HubSpot outlines this process.
- [26:27]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, I mean generative AI can just probably do this for us at this point, you know what I mean? Like, how can it not just recommend it for us? Matt? So in addition to, you know, all the consultancy you do for your clients as it relates to their CRM of record HubSpot apps and integrations, what does the tech stack look like for 1406? Right. You mentioned a number, you know, web analytics, call recording and transcription calling functionality. We what does the tech stack look like for 1406? How should other partners be thinking about their own internal tech stacks? Any recommendations there?
- [26:56]
Matt Smith
Yeah, well, one of the things we do is we'll use these vendors internally ourselves in our own day to day operations wherever it makes sense. So we've got our preferred calling options and we use the HubSpot calling for example for some team members and others who got different types of requirements, we'll use these tech vendors. You know, there's some things we don't use internally. I don't do bulk text messaging for example, so I don't, I don't need to do that or I don't send out a lot of postal mail. So I don't use those vendors. But we try to use as much of it as we can, you know, even down to things like the QuickBooks integration.
- [27:32]
Kevin Dunn
Right.
- [27:33]
Matt Smith
We use QuickBooks. So all my QuickBooks invoices are synced over to HubSpot Deals and that type of thing. I got to switch now I think to the new the HubSpot invoicing since that's out now.
- [27:45]
Kevin Dunn
That's right, yeah, yeah.
- [27:47]
Matt Smith
So we use these internally. You know, if it's something we're not using internally, we will always set up a test account and connect it to our own HubSpot portal or to a client's sandbox and get comfortable with it before we put it in production. But that's always important. I think other, other than that internally. We talked about custom integrations earlier, custom development, that to me is becoming more important if you want to really have a scalable, profitable business around. HubSpot is being able to do custom integrations and especially now with the new functionality that HubSpot has come out with around being able to extend and customize the UI with using React to build in custom integrations and panels directly into the software. Having your own internal development tech stack. So what is your code base you're going to build on? How do you manage your code repo, how do you do version control, your build and deploy? What's your testing process once you've got an integration live running for a client, how do you manage it? How do you ensure it's operating smoothly, that it's not throwing out errors and that it stopped working five days ago and you didn't know it? So you've got to have tools and a tech stack in place for things that maybe traditionally a quote unquote marketing agency. Right. Doing HubSpot wouldn't have thought about. So you've got to really pay attention to those things too.
- [29:10]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah. The times have changed. Going back to the 2017 days and what that partner program looked like versus what are the business challenges our partners are seeking to solve today? And vastly different. Right?
- [29:21]
Matt Smith
Yeah. Am I going to host my custom apps on aws, Azure, Google physical servers? You've got to sort all those things out as well. And then you've got to have. Just taking that a step further, your contracts, your customer agreements, your MSA has got to speak to data security and integrity and where are you hosting data if it's a European client, you got to think about gdpr.
- [29:49]
Kevin Dunn
That's right.
- [29:49]
Matt Smith
All of these things you need to think about that, have a plan in place and know what your tech stack and the things that go around it.
- [29:57]
Kevin Dunn
Look like across all of the clients that you work with, especially the ones that require some consultancy around their platform or their tech stack. How frequently, what's the percentage of those that end up requiring some sort of custom integration? How prevalent is that need that obviously you guys have built the team to be able to solve.
- [30:18]
Matt Smith
Custom integration for us is probably, I'd say at least a third of our clients have some type of custom integration.
- [30:25]
Kevin Dunn
Significant portion.
- [30:26]
Matt Smith
Right?
- [30:26]
Kevin Dunn
Right.
- [30:26]
Matt Smith
Yeah, yeah. And that's really expanded too. Right. When Operations Hub came out with custom code steps and workflows, that was like, wow, okay, now you need a developer on just about every project. Right. Because now you can do some really cool things you couldn't do, you couldn't do before. So it's pretty prevalent for us, I would say every deployment, every client has some kind of integration just from the marketplace. Right. Usually have. I think there are stats that we were shown at partner day. Right. Of the average number of integrations. And clients working with partners tend to have more than those that don't. So you've got to have. If you don't have knowledge in that you don't have your own sort of recommended tools to integrate with HubSpot, you're going to be left in a position where you're reacting to whatever the client chooses and you may get stuck supporting something that you're not comfortable with.
- [31:17]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, that might not be in the best interest of that client. Right. Or truly what they're looking for. Um, Matt, how do you. Any recommendations? I understand that it's a, it's a. When you're seeking developers, especially those that can build these like custom integrations, I know it's a fairly tough talent pool to find to bring in to develop. Any recommendations on how to build, you know, a similar level of expertise for custom integration support, like 1406. Any other partners looking to do the same?
- [31:48]
Matt Smith
I would do it by networking with people that you trust.
- [31:50]
Kevin Dunn
Right.
- [31:51]
Matt Smith
I think all of us have that kind of circle of advisors or people that we know that we've worked with before. I would think through that list. Make a list of people you worked with, whether it's at a previous job, people that are a prior client or even an existing client. Find some folks. If you're not a tech person. I spent a number of years working in software development teams and tech companies, so I had a little bit of, of a leg up on this. But find people that you know and trust and just ask them for advice, ask them for references, you know, do some interviews and you'll learn just from doing interviews and talking to people and ask for examples of their work.
- [32:32]
Kevin Dunn
Do you do like a practical exercise as part, hey, can you, you know, like a sample or anything like that as part of the interview process?
- [32:40]
Matt Smith
I'll usually ask, but I feel like a lot of people don't want to do that and especially like, you know, remotely. It's really hard to test somebody on that. So some of the things I've done is if I'm talking to. So we just hired a react developer recently, an additional team member really just to focus on that. And I interviewed a lot of folks and as part of that process I would say, hey, are you familiar with the HubSpot APIs? Have you ever done HubSpot integrations? Most of them said no. So in the interview I would bring up the main page for the API documentation and I would send them the link to it. I would say, well, here you go, take a look at this and let me know if you have any questions. I would send them the link to the Public Knowledge Base article about the React UI customizations and then there's always a follow up call a few days later. Then the follow up call. I would say, hey, did you have a chance to look at those links that I sent you and the folks that had. Yeah, actually I looked at that and I set up my own developer test account and I, you know, those are the folks that if they do it on their own, kind of volunteer voluntarily because they are excited by the technology and the capabilities. Those are the people you want to look for.
- [34:01]
Kevin Dunn
Nope. That makes sense. It's a good, it's a good way to just like, you know, to, to gut check it. Right? Yeah. How invested they are, how excited they are about the tooling proactively too, Right. Not necessarily prompted to do that.
- [34:12]
Matt Smith
Yeah, you want somebody who's personally excited to learn and to grow and build some things with these tools that you're, that you're hiring them to be an expert on.
- [34:22]
Kevin Dunn
So, Matt, you mentioned too that, hey, when, you know, businesses work with partners, there's more integrations. We talked about some added complexity that can happen in the sales process. Some different cost aversion, some different, you know, like there's a, there's there's a lot that, that, you know, a partner like yourself to put into this for it to, to yield the results that it can or should. But, you know, I can't help but think the juice is worth the squeeze, otherwise we wouldn't be squeezing it. So it's like, what does, you know, the juice look like after all this squeezing? Like, why is there such an emphasis on consulting around tech stack, getting the right, you know, apps and integrations in place? Like, what does this yield on the other side for your clients, but also for 1406 to continue offering this as a, as a service?
- [35:05]
Matt Smith
Yeah, that's a good question. And I know, I know that integrations and custom development, there are a lot of partners out there. There's somebody listening to this podcast probably who says, well, I do the same thing. Right. There's other partners who do custom integrations and integrations. But, you know, one of the kind of long standing pieces of advice that I got even back in the sales partner days was if you can find a specialty area. Right. You're going to do better. Right. You're not just, you're not just one of thousands. Right.
- [35:38]
Kevin Dunn
Everything to everyone, right?
- [35:39]
Matt Smith
Yeah. There's 6,000 or so partners in the directory. If you click the filter for show me the ones that are custom integration accredited, I think it's around 60, so. Right. So for us it was just a natural way to differentiate ourselves. It's something that we actually enjoy doing. Right. I think it is probably the most important part of it. We enjoy solving those kind of problems and finding ways that, you know, just because HubSpot is missing one little thing doesn't mean it's not the right solution for you. Right. So if we can quickly solve that one little thing with some extension or an integration to HubSpot, that then allows you to really get the benefit out of the rest of the platform. We love doing that. That's great. We can solve problems that way for clients. We can solve problems that way for people in the HubSpot sales team. There's sales team members who have lots of opportunities they're trying to work through, especially here in Q4. And if they've got an obstacle, a roadblock where, you know, there's just this one little thing standing in the way that the client is concerned. HubSpot can't do X. We love coming in, helping to solve those problems. So you remove that obstacle from the process.
- [36:53]
Kevin Dunn
So it sounds like, well, first it's, it's a great way to differentiate, right, to trim to Your point from 6,000 or something like that. Maybe if you unfiltered in the directory down to that accredited status for customer degree, it's 60. So it's like, you know, significant differentiation probably helps, you know, tee up conversations with prospective businesses and clients. But, but it also sounds like it's, it's harmonizing the work that you like to do that you find energy in, but pairing that with, you know, what seems to be a growing need and point of emphasis in the market. And so all of those things, I feel like, are the, the check boxes for, for again, I guess the juice squeeze question there.
- [37:31]
Matt Smith
Yeah, it's hard, it's hard to grow a business doing something you don't enjoy.
- [37:34]
Kevin Dunn
Sure.
- [37:35]
Matt Smith
Right. So if you enjoy it, you've got a great team. Like, you know, I have to say, it really comes down to my team. I don't write software, you know, I know enough to be dangerous. I know what kind of questions to ask. I know how to look at, you know, options and suggest options to my development team. But, but they're the ones that do the work. Right. And then it's just talking through with the client, making sure you're clear on the business requirements. So having a, having a good team really is critical to making that work.
- [38:03]
Kevin Dunn
And so, I mean, yeah, to your point there, it sounds like, well, we're, it's also attracting the right type of clients, the clients that we would want to work with. But again, being able to just unlock, you know, or solve the complicated problem with just one additive step or, you know, key piece, one element, you know, it can, it can bear a ton of fruit for the client. Obviously for yourselves as well. Yeah, that's great.
- [38:23]
Matt Smith
Yeah, I think it's similar to, you know, other people do that by picking a market. Right? Yeah, they're the experts in implementing HubSpot for the H VAC market or for dentist, dentist offices or things like that. You know, we don't do either of those things. We probably could, but we typically haven't. But you know it's, it's important to find those areas that you focus, you can, you can actually unlock new, new markets I would say and new kind of niche, go to market opportunities actually by working with other partners sometimes. So yeah, we're doing that currently. You know Dax Miller from Happily, of course. So we're doing some work with, with those guys around. They have a system called Real City as they built a while back which is a SaaS subscription for the MLS, you know, real estate listings and had built that a while back actually prior to the current CMS kind of themes and templates model. So we've done some great work on CMS themes, CMS templates and have now put together working with those guys. Basically a pre integrated CMS theme that is going into the marketplace that is already built to integrate with their Real City data feed. So basically we would do the, provide the CMS theme, the template, do the design work and implementation. They provide the ongoing data feed, MLS data for the, for the Realtor and between the two of us, you know, unlocks a great, a great solution set and great capability and it gives us kind of a new area to work on that we haven't done before.
- [40:03]
Kevin Dunn
That's super cool and honestly it's a good testament. It's a good, it's a good cited example as we, I think you mentioned earlier, you know, hey, how do we, you know, amplify the partnerships between solutions partners and app partners and how that can be exponentially impactful for clients and so that's a, that's a great example of that. I love that. That sounds like a lot of fun, Matt.
- [40:24]
Matt Smith
It's been a good collaboration.
- [40:26]
Kevin Dunn
Great collaboration too. We love to have you guys. I have one final question. I want to get there in a second. What's the most like niche or incredibly specific or I don't want to say like random or like, you know, but what's like the most, you know, the, the wildest custom integration or platform that you had to integrate data into HubSpot with or like send data out from HubSpot but like what's, what's, what's something really out there as A as another point solution that you had to integrate with.
- [40:52]
Matt Smith
Hmm. I don't know. It's hard to pick just one.
- [40:57]
Kevin Dunn
They're all pretty obtuse.
- [40:59]
Matt Smith
They're all unique. You know, there's. I think there's a lot of things that, like we've. We've started to get more involved over the last couple of years with companies that have, I think especially after Covid, that have traditionally a brick and mortar, you know, retail presence. And often we'll have somewhat antiquated point of sale systems or systems that don't really integrate well with other platforms. And a lot of those folks over the last several years have gone to also doing e commerce and website platforms. And so they're looking for a consolidated way to bring their point of sale data from their retail stores into a CRM that also pulls in their E commerce data. So we've done several of those where we had to work through a custom e commerce site integration and also write custom integrations to process sales data coming in from a POS that's not connected to the Internet. So we might have a contact who filled out a lead form on the website. We route that to a store rep and then when the sale happens at the store, we pull that in from the POS system. We need to tie it back to the lead and HubSpot.
- [42:13]
Kevin Dunn
Same record. Yeah, right.
- [42:14]
Matt Smith
Same record. And make sure we can do like lead source attribution reporting and all those things that the marketing person wants. So that gets interesting. You know, I think that's probably a good example.
- [42:24]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, that is a great example. Yeah. Easier said than done. It can get pretty hairy. Some of the antiquated, you know, positive. All right, Matt, final question for you. As we come up on time, we wrap every episode with the same question. What's the strangest part of agency life?
- [42:41]
Matt Smith
Strangest part of agency life, I think, is for me, just the variety of businesses and industries that you get exposure to as a partner. It's the strangest thing. And to me, it's also the coolest thing. That's what keeps it interesting.
- [42:57]
Kevin Dunn
Yeah, you're like, wow, I never realized I was going to become a subject matter expert in some, you know, incredibly, you know, niche piece of, you know, manufactured equipment over here that does this. And, you know, so, yeah, there's been.
- [43:10]
Matt Smith
A few times where I said I didn't even know that was a thing.
- [43:12]
Kevin Dunn
And there's a whole market for it, you know. There's a whole market for it. Yeah.
- [43:16]
Matt Smith
Yeah, absolutely.
- [43:18]
Kevin Dunn
Awesome. Well, Matt, thanks so much for coming on the show. This has been incredibly insightful. Obviously, loved hearing the early days of, you know, your entry as part of the the sales partner program. But again, I think CRM, you know, in platform consultancy, tech stack guidance, and how that manifests in a sales process and into an implementation of HubSpot. You know, this is all just top of mind for a lot of partners. Again, we know it's a growing need. And so being able to to hear some of your approaches, some of your insights, it's been incredibly valuable and helpful, man. So thanks so much for coming on.
- [43:49]
Matt Smith
Fantastic. Thanks for the invite. Good to see you again. And we'll talk soon.
- [43:52]
Kevin Dunn
That sounds great, man. And for everyone that has just tuned in, this has been another episode. Agency Unfiltered RAM SA.