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Owning the Outcome
Season Finale: HubSpot Executives on Growth, Data, and the Partner Opportunity
00:20:55
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- [00:00]
A
We say HubSpot is easy, fast and unified. But I like to say that when it comes to upmarket, it's the partner ecosystem that actually makes HubSpot easy, fast and unified. Bigger customers have a bigger tech stack, they have a more complicated use case, they have a lot of specific business processes. And so, you know, HubSpot works very well out of the box. But when you have a big tech stack, partners are really what makes HubSpot work well, whether it's your tech partner or a solutions partner.
- [00:30]
B
Welcome to the season finale of Owning the Outcome. Over the past few episodes, we've heard bold, practical and sometimes surprising perspectives on how partners are navigating the AI shift. Today we're closing out with two HubSpot leaders at the center of HubSpot's ecosystem strategy, Karen Ng, EVP of product, and Angio Dowd, VP of our global partner ecosystem. Together they'll help us reflect on the big shifts we've seen this year, the momentum coming out of Inbound, and where partners are headed next. Karen and Angie, welcome to Owning the Outcome. So we're finishing strong on Owning the Outcome. Very excited to have Angie and Karen join us today. So Karen, we've just wrapped up Inbound, an incredible partner day where we announced so much. We had the Loop, we had our new partner Playbook for Growth. We had Data Hub, Market Studio, Breeze Studio, our unified developer platform, and lots more with all of that momentum. And when you step back, what do you see as the single biggest shift for partners in this AI age?
- [01:39]
C
You know, it's such an exciting time. It's really rare to be at the beginning of this disruption cycle. And so the biggest takeaway is partners are going to lead this AI transformation. Many of you are already becoming like thinking about how you should lead, but if partners lead, our customers win. So that's my biggest takeaway, Angie.
- [01:59]
B
We launched the AI Ready Partner Playbook this year where we provided ecosystem benchmarks, revenue opportunity projections from IDC and a step by step guide on how to transform into an AI first partner. Right now, as our AI leaders are generating 20% of their revenue on AI services, but that group represents just 13% of our partners. When you look across all the ecosystem, we where are the partners making the fastest progress? Where do you still see hesitation?
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A
Yeah. Thanks, Sarah. So, you know, like anything, there's a natural adoption curve. We have early adopters and we have, you know, some laggards. But a couple of thoughts on this. So firstly, I would say people aren't launching AI services as in a Completely new category of something they didn't offer before. Right. What people are doing is just using the latest technology, which happens to be AI, to deliver for their clients something they always did. So if you're helping your customers get found, well, instead of doing SEO, now you're doing aeo. And so really it's a natural evolution of existing services, just with a modern playbook that happens to be moving really fast and things are launching every day that can make you more efficient. So I think that's like one important distinction is it's not a category of services onto itself. It is a delivery mechanism for existing services and a transformation of existing services. You asked about hesitation and I think one of the big topics people are talking about is pricing models. Value based pricing has been around for a long time. Service providers, many of them offer that already, you know, selling value and outcomes instead of billable hours. And I think that is more important than ever. And everyone is recognizing that if you're going to get any margin gain from, from being more efficient with AI tools yourself, you have to switch to a different type of pricing model. But there's a lot of hesitation around that. That's a lot of work. Right. It's a lot of work to understand the scope of a project and price it accurately from the get go. And so that's an area where I see a lot of conversation and some hesitancy in the community.
- [04:14]
C
Yeah. And it's really interesting how pricing I think is evolving a lot. Like I know from a HubSpot product perspective, we're still warming a lot, it's value over monetization. But we think that the pricing model will be hybrid, which will kind of be a combination of SEAT plus these outcomes that you were talking about. So it'll be interesting to see how it evolves.
- [04:34]
A
Exactly. And I think customer demand is going to dictate pricing as well. Right. If, if customers want a more predictable pricing model, there's going to be like an hourly component remaining in people's pricing models. So I think partners will do the same thing. They'll price hybrid.
- [04:51]
B
Yeah, I find it talking to partners actually during embed this year. The importance of decoupling what's contained within particular services is so important. So like don't think, don't generalize your services around an implementation. For example, make sure you're really decoupling the value you're offering for different services so that you can lay out the value and price accordingly. I think that's going to be really important for partners to differentiate. Differentiate Themselves as well. Karen, Several of our guests this year on the Outcome talked about data being the real unlock. So I don't know how many times I heard garbage in, hallucination out. And, you know, there's. There's a lot of it. So how does the launch of things like Data Hub help partners move from experimenting to actually driving ROI with clean data?
- [05:41]
C
Yeah, data and unified data is so close to my heart because it's so key to making great AI. It's actually the context for it. So we talk a lot about these hybrid teams that are humans that are using AI to be kind of super contributors, and then expanding your team with your digital teammates. That hybrid team is only as good the data that powers it. And so that's kind of what you hear a lot with the garbage in, garbage out. 80% of this data is trapped in unstructured formats like emails or calls or even this podcast that we're doing. And if you can unlock it, which is what we're doing with the smart CRM and Data Hub, it's possible to then use. So smart CRM data hubs solve for a bunch of these different data challenges, like unlocking unstructured or trapped data, how to easily bring together silo data across different systems and teams. And then data quality is the other component that's so critical, where you do sometimes get bad data in, but how do you clean it up so that it's ready for kind of AI context? So, you know, with all that, customers get value faster because at the end of the day, you're using AI to grow, and that's what really matters. So it builds trust in partners who are helping create that unified data platform as well. And giving the context.
- [07:00]
A
And to your earlier question on AI services, you know, many of our solution partners have always had services around data, but this is an area that if someone wasn't in it before, it is an area you need to get into now. So if you want to, you know, fully leverage AI capabilities for your clients, you're going to have to have some sort of data readiness offering. And so that is an area I would recommend investing in in terms of a net new service.
- [07:28]
B
Absolutely. Use a really bad analogy. Data is like the soil that the plants are going to grow in. And so if it's not healthy, it's not going to be in a good place to not put both of you on the spot, but I'm going to put you on the spot.
- [07:40]
C
Right.
- [07:41]
B
Is something I heard from partners a lot this year was, you know, getting customers to buy in to the importance of the data. Right. So I think like, generally we're all agreed it's the thing that's going to power the engine of AI and so much more. But one thing that I'm hearing from them is their customers are saying, oh, I don't know, like if I, if I turn on the machine or I, even if I have my data organized, is my legacy, you know, potentially systems going to disrupt this implementation. So if you're pitching to them going, this is a capital investment you're going to need to make around your data data, what is that pitch you would say to that customer to kind of get them to buy into it for.
- [08:19]
C
The AI side, I'll kind of just reiterate that this transformation is happening whether anyone's ready for it or not. And so either you'll be one of the ones that lead in this AI disruption or not. So that's like the baseline. With the ability to lead in this AI disruption, the context is going to matter the most, which is context you have around the history with customers with that product, what people are trying to do. And without that clear context, it only really takes a handful of examples where you were missing context. You recommended something that wasn't there. This legacy data, for instance, can bias those AI recommendations. It only takes one to lose customer trust. So it's so essential to think about investing in the right context and data platform. And that is why we've built so many tools easily, because we deeply believe that your AI is only as good as the data that powers it.
- [09:18]
A
It is a get left behind moment. Right. So you have to make the investment. I would say on the positive side though, as Karen said, the majority of your data lives in unstructured data. So even if you had a poor data hygiene strategy in the past, that doesn't mean you don't actually have unstructured data that you can now structure in. And so a cleanup job is possible and it's possible for anyone. And so you just have to bite the bullet, I'd say, and make the investment.
- [09:47]
B
Angie, one of our guests earlier in the season described HubSpot's upmarket maturity as fast, easy and unified. Thank God that message went through and spoke to a number of enterprise customers making the shift to HubSpot to reduce time to value on AI tools. How do you see partners extending their value upmarket, especially when they're aligning with David Cohen's call to solve bigger enterprise problems?
- [10:13]
A
Yeah, I think, you know, we say HubSpot is, is easy, fast and unified. But I like to say that when it comes to upmarket, it's the partner ecosystem that actually makes HubSpot easy, fast and unified. Right. Upmarket customers have something like over 200 pieces of software in their tech stack today. Now I think that number will shrink with AI and kind of sort of consolidation onto tooling. But bigger customers have a bigger tech stack, they have a more complicated use case, they have a lot of specific business processes. HubSpot works very well out of the box. But when you have a big tech stack, partners are really what makes HubSpot work well, whether it's your tech partner or a solutions partner. We have thousands of other softwares that we integrate with our app partners that extend the functionality of HubSpot and that's most critical for our upmarket customers. And then solution partners obviously help you get the most out of your tool, connect to tools that we're not currently integrated with out of the box and customize those integrations. So I like to say it's our partner ecosystem that makes HubSpot easy, fast and unified for the upmarket customer.
- [11:27]
B
Absolutely. Karen, anything you'd add there?
- [11:30]
C
Yeah, I love that perspective on the product. We are doing the same where if we are going to think about upmarket teams and one thing that's changing with AI is you're actually going to see more small teams, teams that have enterprise or scalability. You're going to be able to see smaller teams compete on a much larger scale but the needs are similar. You're moving global which means you think need things like multi currency or different time zone or how to manage users. You have multiple brands or multiple accounts like I've talked to so many customers and partners that really help partners that help customers with their multi account management. So in the product we're also building these capabilities as well. We unlocked CRM customization two years ago and so having partners that understand how to customize HubSpot to help each of these customers is such an important skill. But you'll see us do a lot more in product as well. More advanced permissions. How to think about data management, multi account management. We entered sensitive data and encryption for teams that you know need that kind of trust and security. We want to be easy, fast and unified but also easy to trust and easy to use.
- [12:39]
B
I love that. Easy to trust. I love that. So important to that end, Karen, you said that progress on the product product side is not slowing down and we will see more what we call dual citizens emerge partners who are both builders and agents and deliver services how do you see AI changing what gets built on HubSpot in the next year?
- [13:01]
C
You know, partners are already building so many innovative solutions on HubSpot. And I've always, like, it's amazing to see what people build. You know, part of our job and product is to open up those surfaces so that partners can build more. But partners are already starting to build their custom agents, and they're more than ready to build custom agents on HubSpot, which almost codifies a lot of the services that they're doing, that only you really know. Angie talked about this unique IP and EQ that partners will have. We kind of expect that. So being able to build custom agents, we hear them, we know we're going to double down that conviction that when partners lead, our customers win and creating more surface for partners to build on.
- [13:43]
A
I'll elaborate on our equation, but we really believe on the solutions partner side that what's going to differentiate solution partners moving forward is, you know, whatever their unique IP is and what we mean by that is like proprietary expertise, what the partner knows how to do. From years of delivering, you know, in specific industries with specific use cases for clients, it's really their sort of secret sauce that they're experts at combining that with their emotional intelligence, or as we call it, relational intelligence. How to actually get to the root of problems that clients are having, how to unpack what's going on in organizations, how to do change management with solutions within large organizations. And then we like to say it's those two things combined to the power of AI, and AI in that case is really simply the ability to deliver those services with the latest technology in a scalable way. And so that's sort of our equation for success to build on. The question around building agents, though, I think we're already seeing partners build differently today than they used to. We call them dual citizens, which is people who are solution partners and also app partners, so people who build something for our app marketplace. And we're seeing an emergence of more of these sort of dual citizens across the programs. And that is really that equation at play. It's taking your IP and productizing it into a different format that you can deliver in a more scalable way. And so it's definitely our prediction that we'll see a lot more of that, you know, in the next year, definitely in the next, you know, two years and beyond, where AI makes it a lot easier for anyone to be a builder. We actually have partners. Sync Matters is a longtime HubSpot partner. They're now helping other partners productize their IP into solutions in the marketplace. So it's becoming a pretty common motion and we think we'll only see more of it.
- [15:40]
B
Yeah, actually, one of my favorite episodes of on the Outcome this year was with Daryl from Cogent, and he described it as an aha moment, turning a service, you know, into a product. So I definitely think we'll see more of that. And it's a, it's a great one for anyone who wants to catch up. That's just to learn about dual citizens. So, Karen, what does unifying the app and partner programs actually signal for partners and for customers here at HubSpot?
- [16:04]
C
You know, the more we are aligned internally, the more frictionless it's going to be in delivering customer value. So we've done programs together like the Partner Growth Accelerator, and that's just a great example of this kind of investment. So I'm so excited that they're coming together. We see this as we enter up market segments. For instance, you'll need a solution partner, as Angie said, that provides the easy, fast and unified. But there's oftentimes apps or integrations that are really important in different verticals or niche markets, and we kind of need the combination of both. That's how we're going to win. So super good example of that. And I'm so excited that they're coming together under Angie's leadership.
- [16:43]
B
Yeah, me, me too. Me too. Angie, like in practical terms, like, you were very much leading the charge here. What's your. What. How. How are you feeling about the challenges and what you're most excited about?
- [16:54]
A
Yeah, well, couldn't agree more with Karen. Like, really, it's the customer experience we're solving for. If we're aligned internally, we show up aligned externally. But there are so many parallels across our programs that coming together just made a ton of sense. I'm really grateful to Karen and the team for the foundation that the App Partner program has being it grew up in product. Right. But we're there, it's mature on the product side. We have the APIs, we have the extensibility built into our product. And now I think it's time that we really double down on the go to market side for the App Partner program and how we ingrain our app partners into our go to market strategy, which is sort of the roots of the solutions partner program.
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B
So.
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A
So yeah, I'm super excited for the, for the teams to come together.
- [17:40]
B
Karen, this season we heard optimism, but I'm going to say also realism. So partners know AI isn't a silver bullet, but they can see how agents can shift, you know, entire go to market motions. How do you want partners to think about the value of AI heading into 2026? You know, inspiration, pragmatism, or both?
- [18:03]
C
Definitely both. You know, the customers that we serve and the market we serve, it's so easy to have AI hype and we need to double down on real customer value. So I often think, you know, even in our team, our mission is to help millions of organizations grow better. What does that mean? AI is going to be a means to an end, but it means that they need to be able to grow, like find leads, close deals, create revenue, grow as a business. Those are very practical things. So it is going to be both, which is we need a clear and focused way on how we're going to enter the new era. You know, I think the AI ready partner playbook helps a ton. AEO tools and things that we're doing in the product help a ton too. And then it's landing real customer value. We want to help people grow and that means helping their business grow.
- [18:52]
B
Absolutely. Angie.
- [18:54]
A
I double down on what Karen said, but I think might be my most important takeaway is not to be intimidated. Right. Our partners are super tech savvy. What they do is use technology, the latest technology, to help their customers get results. This is no different. There's just an extra level of urgency, I would say, where people need to just adopt. There's a lot to learn, there's a lot to stay up on, and so there's some urgency to evolving. But don't be intimidated, right? This is an evolution we've gone through before. It's just new technology to deliver value to the customer.
- [19:29]
B
Can I just ask you one final question? When you're looking at kind of inspiration for the future ahead with AI, right? Because even as humans, there's uncertainty in that. Those of us like yourself, Karen, and you are very much in the thick of AI and you can see what everything it can do. There is a lot of people out there, though, that are a little bit afraid. And when you think about it from a human level, you know, what keeps you hopeful as a human with the way that you will interact with AI and progress and win in the future. What's the advice you give to people that are looking for more hope than fear?
- [20:07]
C
We are a few years in from ChatGPT was when AI became really accessible to people and it's never been more clear that we will still be human. The taste and creativity and what we bring to relationships and empathy. It just won't be replaced. I think in the beginning of AI, people felt like maybe it would, and I'm even more confident that it's going to be around humans and AI and that nothing will really replace the taste and creativity we have as humans.
- [20:37]
B
Well, I'm incredibly grateful that you both joined me for our end of season wrap for owning the outcome. I can't think of two better people to finish it with. So thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it.
- [20:49]
C
Thank you.
- [20:50]
B
Sarah.