Owning the Outcome: Time to Value, Time to Win: Scaling Smarter with AI and Apps
Hosted by Sarah McDevitt | Released on August 6, 2025
In the latest episode of Owning the Outcome, Sarah McDevitt delves deep into the intricate balance of being both a solutions and app partner within the HubSpot ecosystem. Featuring Darrell Michell, founder of Cogent Connective—a Platinum solutions partner based in Scotland—the discussion unpacks the strategies, challenges, and triumphs of scaling a business in an AI-driven world.
1. Dual Partnership: Solutions and App Partner Synergy
Integrating Services and Products
Darrell Michell opens the conversation by highlighting the strategic advantage of Cogent Connective's dual role as both a solutions and app partner. This unique positioning not only broadens their project base with HubSpot and Orderwise but also significantly enhances their ability to secure deals by showcasing proven integration expertise.
“When we say, look, well, we've already done this integration, we've had experience doing this, or we're experienced in ERP integrations because here's one that we've built and replicated for multiple people. It does help win the deal.”
— Darrell Michell [00:00]
Choosing the HubSpot Platform
Darrell explains the initial impetus for joining the HubSpot platform, driven by the need to integrate Orderwise ERP with robust CRMs like HubSpot. This integration not only addressed their internal challenges but also paved the way for becoming an app partner, offering a seamless route to market.
“We were solving for the client, but also solving for our own internal challenges, which was great.”
— Darrell Michell [01:38]
2. Transforming Services into a Product: The Birth of OW Sync
Identifying the Business Case
The conversation transitions to the strategic decision to evolve OW Sync from a service offering into a scalable SaaS product. Darrell outlines how repetitive integration tasks and client demands for more agile solutions highlighted the necessity for a product-based approach.
“If we build something that we internally can use and it scales us faster as a company because we can grow faster, because we can get more projects out the door...”
— Darrell Michell [02:56]
Benefits Realized
Six months into being an app partner and three months post-launch on the App Store, Cogent Connective has observed significant returns, validating the investment in product development.
3. Navigating Client Conflicts: Custom Features vs. Product Development
Balancing Custom Requests
Addressing the common challenge of clients requesting custom features without a willingness to invest in product development, Darrell emphasizes a consultative approach. By delving into the root of the client's needs, Cogent Connective often identifies whether a custom feature is essential or merely symptomatic of a deeper issue.
“We can take knowledge. So it's not totally restrictive, but where the main bulk of our business comes from, it's like just go narrow and deep and it starts to build up...”
— Darrell Michell [07:20]
Charging for Scoping
Darrell strongly advocates for charging clients for scoping and audits, ensuring that both parties are committed to the process and value the expertise being provided.
“If you're in this business of scoping, charge for it. ... clients value that both parties make an investment into this process.”
— Darrell Michell [05:51]
4. Specialization: Carving Out a Niche in ERP Integrations
Choosing a Focus Area
With a decade of experience in ERP systems from his family distribution business, Darrell underscores the importance of specialization. By focusing on Orderwise and HubSpot, Cogent Connective has positioned itself as a subject matter expert, leading to increased project wins and deeper market penetration.
“We do just specialize in those areas because we've used them on a daily basis and we understand how it feels to be on the receiving end of something good or bad.”
— Darrell Michell [07:20]
Advantages of Deep Expertise
This deep specialization not only builds trust with clients but also allows for the transfer of knowledge across different industries, enhancing versatility while maintaining core expertise.
5. Leveraging Dual Roles for Superior Customer Acquisition
App vs. Services Side
Discussing the cost per acquisition, Darrell reveals that having an app partner side significantly boosts their ability to win deals. The app not only attracts more projects but also demonstrates proven integration capabilities, thereby reducing acquisition costs and increasing profitability.
“Time to value is much less now. ... cost per acquisition goes down and your revenue correspondingly goes up and profit does too.”
— Darrell Michell [10:03]
Double Opportunity
Being both an app and service partner creates a "double threat," expanding Cogent Connective's reach and enhancing their market presence through multiple channels.
6. Managing Dual Roles: App Partner vs. Service Partner Trade-offs
Resource Allocation
To effectively manage the dual roles without internal competition, Cogent Connective strategically splits resources into separate cost centers. This ensures that specialized teams handle app development and service delivery independently, fostering expertise and efficiency in both domains.
“We purposely split the resource so that we weren't competing for resources.”
— Darrell Michell [12:09]
Project Management Integration
Project managers play a crucial role in bridging the two sides, ensuring seamless collaboration and unified project delivery despite the specialized teams.
7. Success Stories: Integrating App and Service Partnerships
Comprehensive Solutions
Darrell shares compelling examples where Cogent Connective successfully combined their app and service offerings to deliver comprehensive solutions. One notable project involved transforming HubSpot into a full-fledged sales machine integrated with Orderwise ERP, leading to a significant increase in client sales.
“We did stretch the limits of what people sometimes are prepared to do and the client has seen an increase in sales from that as a result.”
— Darrell Michell [16:54]
Collaborative Wins
By leveraging existing apps from other partners and integrating them seamlessly, Cogent Connective showcases the power of collaboration within the HubSpot ecosystem, resulting in robust and scalable client solutions.
8. Empowering Sales Teams: Maximizing the App Marketplace
Educating Sales Reps
Darrell advises HubSpot sales reps and other solution partners to thoroughly explore the app marketplace. Understanding the available tools and partnerships can unlock new opportunities and enhance deal closures by addressing complex client needs effectively.
“Don't discount something immediately. Do some research.”
— Darrell Michell [17:37]
Win-Win Collaborations
Emphasizing the collaborative spirit within HubSpot's partner programs, Darrell highlights how app and solution partners can work together to deliver exceptional value to clients, creating mutually beneficial outcomes.
9. The Role of AI: Enhancing Efficiency and Creativity
AI as an Assistant
AI plays a pivotal role at Cogent Connective, acting as an additional resource for staff. From drafting documents to identifying project risks, AI tools enhance productivity and foster creative problem-solving.
“AI will probably take a lead in that. Maybe we're sort of six to nine months before that becomes a major threat to integration people.”
— Darrell Michell [21:05]
Training and Adoption
Investing in AI tools and training staff to utilize them effectively has allowed Cogent Connective to streamline operations, reduce time to value, and maintain a competitive edge in the rapidly evolving tech landscape.
10. Future Outlook: Integration in an AI-First World
Evolving Integration Landscape
Looking ahead, Darrell anticipates that AI will simplify integrations by standardizing languages and automating processes. However, the nuanced understanding and contextual insights provided by human consultants will remain indispensable.
“The role of a consultant or somebody who's doing scoping is super important because we can take that context and feed it back into the AI tool...”
— Darrell Michell [21:05]
Human-AI Collaboration
Cogent Connective envisions a future where AI serves as a powerful assistant, augmenting human expertise rather than replacing it. This symbiotic relationship is expected to drive more efficient and innovative integration solutions.
Conclusion
Darrell Michell's insights on Owning the Outcome offer a comprehensive look into the strategic maneuvers required to thrive as both an app and solutions partner in the HubSpot ecosystem. By specializing deeply, leveraging dual partnerships, and integrating AI effectively, Cogent Connective exemplifies the bold bets and breakthrough moments that define success in an AI-first world. For HubSpot partners and sales reps alike, Darrell's experiences underscore the importance of collaboration, specialization, and adaptability in achieving sustained growth and delivering exceptional client outcomes.
Notable Quotes:
- Darrell Michell [00:00]: “Because we have the app, we get more projects that go to HubSpot and Orderwise respectively.”
- Darrell Michell [02:56]: “It's not insignificant in the cost element to put quality time into the development process, but it has definitely started to pay off.”
- Darrell Michell [05:51]: “If you're in this business of scoping, charge for it. Because whilst it might seem like you're uncompetitive or somebody else is going to come in and undercut you, clients value that both parties make an investment into this process.”
- Darrell Michell [07:20]: “So it's like just go narrow and deep and it starts to build up and it definitely has paid off for us.”
- Darrell Michell [10:03]: “Time to value is much less now. ... cost per acquisition goes down and your revenue correspondingly goes up and profit does too.”
- Darrell Michell [12:09]: “We purposely split the resource so that we weren't competing for resources.”
- Darrell Michell [17:37]: “Don't discount something immediately. Do some research.”
- Darrell Michell [21:05]: “AI will probably take a lead in that. Maybe we're sort of six to nine months before that becomes a major threat to integration people.”
This episode is a must-listen for HubSpot partners and businesses navigating the complexities of integrating AI and app solutions to scale smarter and achieve rapid time to value.