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- [00:00]
A
One of the most powerful things is go, wow, that sounds really tough for you. How can I help you? And that doesn't mean abandon your, you know, your scope of work or abandon your own boundaries, but within what we've agreed, maybe a little bit beyond, if I really think they need it, how can I help you? Human to human. And that changes the whole dynamic, the whole conversation.
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B
Today on oni now come I'm joined by Gemma Price, founder and CEO of Hubgem Marketing, a diamond HubSpot Solutions partner serving the education. While working as a school marketing director, Gemma saw firsthand how transformative HubSpot could be. And soon other schools began reaching out for help. At that moment she faced a choice. Accept a safe job with another partner or take the leap to build something of her own. Trusting her instincts, she founded Hubgem, dedicated to helping education providers modernize admissions and marketing. Today, HubGen boasts only 5 star reviews in HubSpot's marketplace and has become a thriving partner. One more note before we dive in. Hubgem has also been widely recognized for its award winning culture and its commitment to human connection. In an AI powered world, Gem is investment in people. Her whole person approach to workplace culture and her willingness to lead with vulnerability sets her part both as a CEO and a leader. I can't wait to get into this conversation. Gemma, I'm so excited to have you on own the outcome. We go back many years in the ecosystem and I'm really, really excited to hear more about your story today and let the listeners hear more about your story.
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A
Yeah, so happy to be here.
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B
Awesome. Well, let's start there. Can you share a little bit about the story of how you founded Hubgem and how it shaped your vision for a thriving business that you have today?
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A
I've always been a bit of a nerd with tech and yeah, I've always loved being at a computer so I guess the interest was there. And then I was working in a school so fee paying independent school in the UK and I was director of marketing and admissions and when I was in that role I did something radical in implementing HubSpot, which at the time very few schools were using it or using anything outside of a few very specific education tools. And it was amazing how powerful it was in that environment to, you know, for all the things we love it for, specifically for the lead nurturing piece. And I just couldn't believe that other people weren't doing it. So I, yeah, I just had this, this inkling that people might need my help. You know, there was no one to look to as a role model really in this space because no one else was doing it at the same time. I had just gone back to work after maternity leave, so my daughter was six months old and I went back to work and it just felt like the balance was wrong. I felt like I needed a change. I wasn't sure what that looked like. I was really enjoying using HubSpot in my role and the rest of it had fallen back a bit. I was like, that's not as fun. Yeah. So I guess I opened my mind to what could, what could the future look like? What else could I be doing? And then I reached this point actually where, where I had a job offer on the table from a partner and then that niggly feeling was there saying you could do it differently, you could do it your way, you could do better, you could try this. And I couldn't ignore it. So yeah, I took the plunge, started Hubgem. I had never done grown a business before, but I just had this firm belief that there was people that needed my guidance on this journey. I was very passionate about education and still am and about HubSpot and yeah, so that was that. Jumped in and never looked back.
- [04:14]
B
So it's day zero. I'm going to say you have two employees. There's you and your daughter. Because that was a balance at the start. What was the first win that you were like, yes, okay, things are going to be okay. I got this. I understand the problem statement. I understand HubSpot. Do you remember that first win? And going, yes, I can do this.
- [04:36]
A
Yeah, the first customer. And actually we still work with them now. The first customer we had was an international school and I actually signed them up before I started the business. So that gave me some confidence. Very simply because they were already considering HubSpot, wondering what to do, but said we need, you know, they were saying to HubSpot, we need to have the confidence that this will work in a school. So I had actually been introduced as a case study. Look, I'm happy to chat to you like we're non competitors from school to school. Here's our experience, here's what you need to look out for. And they said to me, can we pay you to advise us? Fast forward a few months. I knew I was doing this, I was going to take the leap. I'd set up my little home office and my dining room at the time. And they were the first people I reached out to and I said, hey, did you ever go ahead with HubSpot? And they Said, oh actually we're about to. And I said, what about you? Let me do your onboarding. I'm now a partner. And so that was, it was quite unique. I think that the way that it happened. But for me it really spoke to how important it was because I knew the audience, I knew the use case, I knew the niche already. It was sort of the, this could work. And it was my first. They were very clear. I said look, you're my first client. Never done this before, but I have done it in a school myself. And they were like really happy with that.
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B
And so today what. How many employees are in the business?
- [06:12]
A
So there's 20 now. We've the last sort of 18 months has been a lot more about streamlining. So I don't have to keep growing headcount in order to scale. Just trying to, you know, mature a little bit. So we've done a lot of work on our marketing, our sales, our internal processes. Really every time we feel a friction point, we really lean into it and say, okay, what do we need to learn here? How do we do it better? I look for other people who have done it and see what they're doing, but never from the viewpoint of I've got to copy them. It's always what learnings did. They learn the hard way that I could save myself some pain from. But ultimately we're still going to do it our way. That's right. For our business, for our culture, for our niche. Because I, I don't really know. Yeah. That anyone else has got quite the same experience as us.
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B
Well, absolutely. You see you have 20 employees now. How many of your 20 employees would you describe as AI, amplified employees, different.
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A
Answer now to it would have been say a month ago. But yeah, the whole team are using AI pretty much every day, regardless of role. So from sort of the HR and people side of things and admin through to marketing, sales service, all using in different ways and different tools, pretty much the whole team every day using AI.
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B
As you look into the future, what could you see your hiring plan be that's changed now because you're maximizing your AI tool usage?
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A
It's quite hard to quantify because AI is here and we're using it. However, what I would say is that as I explained there, the growth and we were hiring every other month that came with its own challenges. One of my favorite things about Hubgem is the team. What we have in our team at the minute is really special. You know, we, we maintain 100%, five star customer reviews, people Love working with us. We're established in our niche and also our culture and all the other stuff we do within the team. I'm not looking at it through the lens of profit, although that's nice too. I'm looking at it through the lens of how do we keep all the stuff that is working so well at Hubgen whilst also scaling the business. That's where I really see the value in AI is that we are able to output can scale quite easily, really. This is very, very easy to embrace the tools and apply them and each time we do, that's a slower hire next time, which means it's easier to maintain all the stuff we're doing. Well, we can supercharge the amazing team we already have by giving them tools that mean they're not spending time doing the tasks that nobody loves. This in the background.
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B
Absolutely. Let's talk about the humans for a minute. So, Hubgem, you really have, as you said, a strong commitment to culture and wellbeing. And I know this is a passion beyond the, you know, the office there. And recently you were even recognized at the British HR Awards, winning in the SME category. You know, that's no small feat for a small company. And when I'm in interested in and really understanding is and like sharing it, if you're willing to is how do you keep the culture thriving as the company grows? And more importantly for you personally, Gemma, what does success look like as the CEO? Like what? What is the thing? You're like going, yes, I'm succeeding. What does success look like for you?
- [09:42]
A
My favorite thing about being the founder of Hookjam and running Hookjam is the humans. The humans that we serve as customers and the humans within the team who give it their all every day. So, yeah, we've won dozens of awards. We've been named one of the world's happiest workplaces. This is not something that sits in the background. Every single team member is sort of challenged to make a conscious contribution to culture. I firmly believe that the more we invest in connecting humans with other humans, the more we invest in embracing the whole person, not just how much money are they making, are they hitting their targets, are they exceeding? But actually, who are you in your home life? What does that bring? Who are you as a whole individual? That's why our clients love working with us, because they know us, we are part of their team. We care. And the reason we care is because our team are fully supported. If there's a member of our team who's having a Tough day. Maybe they're stressed about something they've got to do. I don't want to hear everyone's fine. It's all smart sunshine and rainbows here. Today I want someone to sit in front of me and feel safe enough to cry it out, shout it out, whatever they need, because those emotions are welcome, they're valid, and they're part of the lived experience. And I think for so long, businesses have been numbers, numbers, numbers, metrics, metrics. And it's important, for sure, but at the expense of actually, how are you really feeling? And I think as a founder and a CEO, this is so important. We implemented something called the PACE model, which is actually something we borrowed from social work, but it's around approaching everything with playfulness, acceptance, curiosity and empathy. And that's been key. And we, you know, our team days, when we do get together in person a couple of times a year, yes, we talk about numbers, yes, we talk about strategy. But then we spend at least half of the event talking about the humans we're serving and how they're feeling. And we bring to the table challenges we face. You know, this client was just. The expectations were unreal and they were asking all these things or whatever it is that feels unmanageable or like it's gone wrong. And then we look at it through the lens of let's put ourselves in their shoes. How are they feeling? What's the environment like that they're working in? How could I inject a little bit of playfulness to really lift the tone and create that psychological safety? So we apply this both within Hubgen, within the culture, in everything we do. But then we bring it to our customer relationships and all of our services as well. Because when you're implementing HubSpot, you're going through changes, right? You're making change. And change is fundamentally uncomfortable to the brain. It really, it can be quite triggering. It can make you feel unsafe, uncertain. And so by building a psychologically safe environment, we allow, and, you know, no question is too silly, if a client wants to have an absolute meltdown to our team on a call, then they know they can be held by us safely in a way where they feel they can express that emotion. And then we've dealt with it now the project's back on track. So, yeah, it underpins everything.
- [13:16]
B
You talked that the PACE model there, what kind of practical kind of workshops you do with the team to flex their muscles and build muscle around creating the psychological safety, doing that empathy piece, really listening, you know, what do you do with the team. Is that in those kind of workshops you're doing it or is there like other training courses that you do within the business?
- [13:40]
A
It's every team call, it's every course, it's every. It's everything. So for example, on our whole team meetings that we have every Monday, we talk about business updates, but then we say, what have you struggled with this week? What's been a challenge? And we listen and we empathize with each other. I'm really mindful and I have trained to become a coach, so I've learned a lot in that as well. I'm really bringing to my leadership. But around unconditional positive regard. Let's not jump to us and them. Let's not jump to they are somehow wrong and I am somehow right all the time. Like instead, let's listen to understand, not to respond. That's key. The majority of the time, people just want to be heard. They want to feel validated. They want someone to connect with them and actually listen. So let's say a customer has come to an onboarding call with our team and said, why is this not done yet? Or, you know, the form is not what I wanted or whatever it might be. Let's say they come in with maybe quite a assertive and a little bit beyond that approach. Then the first thing that we train our team in, and this is across all roles, is regulate your own nervous system. If you are triggered by that because you're stressed, you're in a responsive state where, yeah, you feel defensive and they've triggered you, then you're just two chimps fighting out in the jungle and you're not actually addressing what's really going on. So the first thing is notice how you feel in your body. And we train our team on this. How do you feel right now? Yeah, I really noticed I was feeling on the edge of my seat. My body language changed, my heart rate was up. Okay, what's that telling you? Oh, it's telling me I was feeling unsafe or whatever. And we really do this self reflection and then we share best practices and experiences as a team and we do that in a vulnerable way. So it's okay. It doesn't matter who you are in the company, myself as the CEO included, I'll say this situation made me feel like this in my body. And so just by doing that, the next time you're in that situation, you can recognize that some of this is your natural but your responses. And the problem with that is if we are going in a defensive mechanism, then we're often losing that empathy piece. So the first thing is just to be regulated so then you can actually listen without defending. And then what you tend to see is that a customer is panicked, they've got a lot of pressure on them, there's some internal pressures often indicative of their culture where they're working. And so one of the most powerful things is go, well, that sounds really tough for you. That sounds like you're having a really tough time. How can I help you? And that doesn't mean abandon your, you know, your scope of work or abandon your own boundaries, but within what we've agreed, maybe a little bit beyond. If I really think they need it, how can I help you? Human to human. And that changes the whole dynamic, the whole conversation. We launched very early on, we have since iterated and improved it. We launched a leadership program that every person at Hubgem who goes on to be a line manager or a leader in any capacity or who aspires to is invited to join our leadership program. And we've put together a very human focused, values led program that we guide people through to train them in how the brain works, how emotions work. And you know, it's like the, I think we maybe used to refer to them as soft skills, but arguably are the most important skills.
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B
I'm going to stop you there to be just like, yes, yes, yes. You think that is going to be critical. When we talk about so much about AI, I mean the EQ part of it is going to become increasingly more important. So like, let's talk about that like in really practical terms, right? So you're obviously working with like the schools and you work with a lot of for profits as well. And there are different types of institutions, right. When it comes to like AI adoption, for example. So you're hearing objections around, you know, oh, this AI thing is not for me. How do you use what you're teaching your team to navigate that, to like use it actually as a strength to bring them over to recognize the benefits of AI. Like, you know, can you talk me through an example of how you might approach that?
- [18:20]
A
Asking lots of questions I think is the easiest approach. So, okay, can you talk me through why that is? And then when they say repeat back, okay, so what I hear you say is that this is a challenge or you don't have the time. That's a real common one. I don't have the time to learn about this. My job is admissions in a college. I don't have time to learn about tech. And we go, wow, yeah, I Hear you, sounds like you're really busy. And let them just talk to you for five minutes about how busy they are, because then you create the rapport that you are listening. You're not overriding them and saying, I know best. You should do this. Instead. You meet them where they're at. It sounds like you're really busy. How about if I could help you save some time here and you reassure them. You don't need to know all the jargon, you don't need to be a developer to do this. But if I could save you this time, would that be helpful? Because it sounds to me. And again, back to the empathy. It sounds to me like you're really struggling there. I've got a suggestion that we do that works really well. And again, because we're using AI, we've got lots of examples we can draw on, or we've got other customers who did this and that worked. Would you be open to trying it? Like, I'll support you. Could you carve out half an hour to look at this with me? And so it's breaking that down, recognizing what the fears are. I mean, ultimately, there are core fears that are shared that most people have in different areas. So fear of judgment, fear of failure, fear of abandonment, they're very. There were root needs that we have to be accepted and to fit in. And so often, if you really got to the root of it, it's probably coming down to, I might get it wrong, I might mess up somewhere. And so if you see that as fear instead of just resistance, then I think you can meet them in a more empathetic way. And so that's really what we try and do when we're supporting clients. I will say some still won't be ready for it, especially if there is a culture in their organization of pressure and stress, it feels too far for them. But instead, if you've created that rapport, that supportive, ultimately we're working with them for a reason. If we've built that rapport, then we can look for the opportunities and make it as easy as possible for them, whilst recognizing there's a little bit of fear there.
- [20:47]
B
I'm interested in listening to you between those kind of like two, you know, those that are ready and those that aren't. You know, when you think about, you know, maybe five years is too far, but the next couple of years, in terms of the schools that you're dealing with, right, the ones that are, you know, innovating, you know, what do you think they'll be doing differently? What Will they have been brave enough to take steps on that? Maybe others won't have.
- [21:11]
A
They will be using data to their advantage better than they are at the minute. So in education, whether we're talking a school, a college, even a university, it's still quite disjointed and disconnected, which is what we help them with by implementing HubSpot in the first place. So I think the first thing they will be doing differently is seeing that data as an amazing asset and to be really passionate about connecting it all. You know, the worst thing in a, you know, in an AI world is for your data not to be feeding into these tools to not be accessible because before you know it, you've got admissions operating that system and, and we're back to pre HubSpot. I think the buy in at leadership level there is key because helping leaders to see how powerful AI is when it can draw trends. I think back to my days in a school, the head teacher, the bursa, anyone on the leadership team would regularly run into my office and say, gemma, I need exactly these numbers now and what does that mean for our admissions trends? And I'd be thinking, ah, quick, I've got to think about this now. You could do that in a text prompt. You don't even need to walk down the corridor to my office. You can just say, what are the trends? What are the pain points coming in up in the admissions process that we need to address? And one quick, not even a text prompt, a voice prompt that can, to your connected data can bring you those insights. So I think just getting people to see the value in the connected data and I really think those organizations that really leverage that with the power of AI are suddenly going to find themselves with insights that the others do not have.
- [23:03]
B
What about you and your team's role in their journey? You know, how will your work, you think, shift?
- [23:09]
A
Yeah, so we're, we're, you know, early days in this. At the minute we've been looking at how we can support and so some of the easiest things that we've brought in is things like an AI masterclass where we can just show people the tools in HubSpot as a starting point and explain how they can be used. And obviously we already know their accounts so it's quite easy for us to just demonstrate the value and give them ideas on where that could be used. We're going further, I think the deep research connector with OpenAI and I know there's more coming out now, I think that's really powerful because ChatGPT and other LLMs are able to do so much with language. They are becoming the tool of choice for so many, even those who are typically slow on the adoption of tech. So just supporting with that journey, helping share examples of best practices. You know, we are the thought leaders in this space. HubSpot education. And now AI is a sort of level that goes across all of that.
- [24:15]
B
Yeah, that's awesome. You're deeply connected in HubSpot, you know, and the ecosystem. And I'm just wondering, you know, what conversations, whether that's about AI or integrations or, or industry shifts or humans. What are you most energized by right now?
- [24:29]
A
I think it's the human side. I have intuitively felt pulled. I followed AI closely, just reading the news and looking and testing and playing with it. As I said at the start, I am a nerd anyway, like, give me a new tool, I want to go play. But what feels really instinctive to me is this, the more I embrace the tech, the more that I lean into AI, which as I say we are doing, the more I am being drawn to the human side, to the connection to company culture, to the human value that we bring, that is exclusively human. I do a lot of work with gut feelings and intuition and culture that really energizes me and I love speaking to other people in the ecosystem who I feel are also feeling that pull. You know, when you've done talks on this, it really resonates on a human level. I think we can see the tech and be excited by it. We wouldn't be in this world if we weren't.
- [25:29]
B
Well, Gemma, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you here on Owning the Outcome with us. So many words of wisdom, such a journey that you've been on. Really, it's very inspiring. And I may well add that you've had a second. You've had a second daughter?
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A
Since I had a son, yeah.
- [25:45]
B
Was that your son?
- [25:47]
A
Yeah. I've got an 18 month old as well, so yeah, and another couple of businesses to boot. Life is, is busy, but I love all of it. I wouldn't change it for the world.
- [25:55]
B
Well, thank you so much for joining us and if you're enjoying the episodes of on the Outcome, don't forget to subscribe.