Podcast
Agility at Work: One Step Ahead
Hosted by Agility at Work: One Step Ahead · EN
Agility is a must for negotiators and leaders in today’s fast-paced, uncertain world. You’ve got to be quick on your feet to seize unexpected opportunities. And you better have a Plan B in case things go south. One Step Ahead co-hosts, Harvard professors Mike Wheeler and Kimberlyn Leary, show you how to stretch your thinking and sharpen your skills so you’re ready to adapt to surprises, pleasant or otherwise. Mike and Kim also interview colleagues, negotiators, and leaders about their insights and best practices. Get ready to limber up!
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Episodes
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43. Agile Leadership and Nimble Negotiation for Social Equity
Oct 25, 202200:41:41Tap to summarizeAt least for a while, this will be the final posted episode of Agility at Work. More about that in a moment. No matter what unfolds, quite conveniently our conversation today with Rob Garris bridges Kim’s world of agile leadership and Mike’s jazz of negotiation domain. Rob is the Managing Director of Leadership Development at Trinity Church Wall Street. While New York was still an English colony, the church was granted more than 200 acres of land in lower Manhattan. As you can imagine, Trinity has enormous resources—seven billion dollars, in fact. Some of that has been used to support the church itself. But much of the money has gone to supporting good works in its community and, more broadly, through collaborations with other institutions and agencies. Its current grantmaking is focused on two major areas: racial justice and homelessness. Rob’s responsibility at Trinity is to promote “leadership development for people of faith, both clergy and ordained, and to help train clergy who both are good leaders within the church as an institution, but also are leaders in their communities and fit into this broader concept of a church as a center of service and a resource for its community and its congregation.” Worthy intentions are essential, of course, but bringing them fully to life requires astute planning, collaboration, persuasion and agility, most certainly in these contentious times. Shared values and faith do not guarantee consensus, however. Members of a community can disagree strongly about priorities and about the best means for achieving them. As you will hear, much of what Rob has learned himself applies to leadership and negotiation in very different contexts—business, education, and not-for-profit institutions. His feet are firmly on the ground, but his aspirations (and accomplishments) are lofty. We hope you are uplifted by the example he sets. Now, shifting gears, back to our podcast, Agility at Work. Over the last several years we have greatly enjoyed talking with and learning from scholars and practitioners who have shared with us (and you!) their experience and insights about leadership and negotiation with agility, both strategically and moment-to-moment. Both of us are busy with other ventures and responsibilities. We need to catch our breath. There is much more for us to explore, of course, on this topic. Who knows, we may revive this project at some point, but likely, not anytime soon. For now, we express our thanks to you, our listeners, for your kind words and for letting other people know about Agility at Work. Be well! -Kim and Mike
Transcribe →42. Conflict Resilience in Contentious Times
Apr 23, 202200:24:44Tap to summarizeThe guest in this episode of Agility at Work is our friend and colleague Bob Bordone. Bob taught negotiation and conflict resolution for many years at Harvard Law School. He also founded a clinic here to give students firsthand experience in settling disputes. That program is still going strong. Bob has now moved into multi-faceted private practice, serving as a mediator, facilitator, and negotiation adviser. And he somehow still manages to continue his teaching, as well. The heart of our conversation this day is what Bob calls “conflict resilience.” It’s the ability to sit with, and be present around, those with whom we have fundamentally different views. As he explains, “It’s the capacity to listen with a generosity and openness, and at the same time, share one’s own views with authenticity and grace.” That’s an admirable skill, one that most of us could be better at, especially in these troubling days. Skill, though, may not be the right word. As Bob describes it, conflict resilience calls on many aspects of our nature. Our empathy for others, along with self-awareness. Clarity about our own values coupled with curiosity about how others see the world. Confidence blended with humility. And perhaps supporting all that, a grounded optimism that engaging with others tends to be better than arming up for battle (or running for the hills). Bob, a grounded optimist himself, believes we can deepen our ability to bring the temperature down dealing with people with whom we strongly disagree—neighbors, colleagues, and perhaps most challenging, family members whose views diametrically differ from our own. As you’ll hear, Bob also sees a welcome evolution in the way in which negotiation specialists understand the process. In recent years there’s been a shift from the substantive dimension of negotiation (trading this for that) to the relational, interpersonal dimension. That certainly is true of Bob’s work, as you can see on his website: http://www.bobbordone.com/. A great place to start is one of his featured videos, “Can We Talk? Rules for Engagement for Civil Discourse”: http://www.bobbordone.com/featured-videos.
Transcribe →41. The Power of a Surprise Ask
Mar 8, 202200:18:26Tap to summarizeOur guest this episode, in an encore appearance, is our friend and HBS colleague Christine Exley. Back in Episode 10 we discussed her on-going research on gender inequality and how to address it. This time we learned about her work on charitable giving—why we sometimes say yes and other times no. Most of us are deluged by appeals—phone calls, email blasts, and the old-fashioned knocks on the door. With so many organizations vying for our attention, it’s become a competitive environment. As the old saying goes, “You don’t get, if you don’t ask.” But the more asks we hear, the less attention we can give them. Envelopes pile up on our desks. Emails pack our inboxes. Many of them are from worthy causes, but eventually, with a sigh perhaps, we pitch them all. In a study with colleagues, Christine found that not asking—that is, not asking at the outset—is more likely to prompt a contribution. The team set up a contest in which subjects would vote for a charity where the winner would get a large cash prize. Half the subjects were told in advance that they would then be asked to donate to their chosen organization. The other half weren’t given that heads-up. For them the request to personally contribute came as a surprise. As you might guess, that second group was significantly more generous. But why? The research team concluded that people in the first group, who were forewarned, had time to come up with an excuse for declining the request. By contrast, the people for whom the request came out of the blue, weren’t prepared to dodge it. The “surprise ask” technique may apply in other situations, as well. When you approach a friend or colleague for a personal favor, you might be better off first explaining your situation and then, after you’ve gotten their attention and warmed things up, making your ask. This can apply in negotiation, as well. P.S. Beyond being a much-admired teacher and scholar, Christine has also been a social entrepreneur on the side. She co-founded Waggero, an organization for finding homes for abandoned dogs. The challenge was how to compete with (and elbow out) unethical “puppy mills” that badly mistreat the animals they breed. As you’ll hear, Christine came up with a clever solution.
Transcribe →40. Collaborative Leadership
Jan 25, 202200:18:32Tap to summarizeOur guest for this episode, Mike Beer, is back with us for an encore. He spoke with us a year ago about his latest book, Fit to Compete: Why Honest Conversations about Your Company’s Capabilities are the Key to a Winning Strategy. Mike joins us now to discuss the distinction between top-down leadership and leadership that draws on the experience and insights of people throughout an organization. That topic dovetails nicely with Kim’s work, notably the Adaptive Leadership course she teaches at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government. Collaborative leadership may sound like a new idea, but Mike explains that its roots go back at least to the 1950s with the publication of Douglass McGregor’s classic, The Human Side of Enterprise. McGregor contrasted two leadership styles: Type X (autocratic) and Type Y (participatory), reflecting two fundamentally different views of human nature. The Type X leaders—and they are still with us—believe that people are basically lazy, self-interested, and not interested in the larger good. So they have to be straightened out and tightly controlled. Type Y leaders have a more optimistic viewpoint. They believe that people want to be productive, work with others, and make a difference. It’s the leader’s job to promote and actively support involvement. Mike explains that it’s one thing to aspire to that kind of leadership, but quite another to do it well. It requires being open to new ideas and a willingness to hear criticism. Those traits don’t come easily to many of us, especially when the stakes are high. Listen to his advice here, and for more on Mike Beer’s work, check out his professional website: https://www.beermichael.com/.
Transcribe →39. Getting to Yes Turns 40
Dec 22, 202100:23:12Tap to summarizeThis year marks the 40th anniversary of the publication of Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In by Roger Fisher and William Ury, with Bruce Patton coming on board for subsequent editions. It remains by far the best seller in the field and has been translated into dozens of languages. William, our guest in this episode, describes the book’s genesis. And together we discuss its enduring impact on how we understand and engage in negotiation. The book’s key contribution was advancing a macro theory, one that applies to both deal making and dispute resolution, from buying a car to seeking peace in war-torn regions. The model emphasized three key steps. 1. Separate the people from the problem. This precept wasn’t meant to suggest that negotiation should be depersonalized. Far from it. The text puts building relationships and dealing with emotional issues as a top priority. Focus on that from the outset, the authors advised. Disentangle interpersonal aspects from substantive issues (e.g., dollars and cents, rights and liabilities). 2. Focus on interests, not positions. Lobbing demands back and forth can turn negotiation into a contest where making a concession feels like an act of weakness. But if no one budges, deadlock can result. And even if somebody finally blinks, their strained relationship may hamper implementation. 3. Invent options for mutual gain. Fisher and Ury’s most important contribution was highlighting how negotiation can be a problem-solving process in which parties make creative trades given their different needs and priorities. Earlier books like Robert Ringer’s 1974 Winning Through Intimidation and Herb Cohen’s 1980 You Can Negotiate Anything extolled a take-no-prisoners approach. For many readers, Getting to Yes’s emphasis on “mutual gains” was an attractive, refreshing alternative. Notwithstanding the book’s virtues (especially, its fresh outlook and accessibility) its success signals there must have been something in the early in the 1980s that drew people to negotiation. Negotiation centers popped up at universities. The Program on Negotiation drew on faculty from Tufts, MIT, Harvard, and other Greater Boston schools. Similar programs developed at Northwestern, Stanford, and Pepperdine, just to name a few institutions. At the beginning of the 1980s, professional schools of law, business, and government rarely offered negotiation courses. Somehow, ten years later, most of them did. Companies large and small began to provide negotiation training for their employees. And many books on negotiation followed, as well. Some in the spirit of Getting to Yes, others decidedly different. Would all this have happened if that book never had been written? Absolutely. I’m sure of that. But my guess is that the book shaped and accelerated many of these ventures by linking theory and practice, and legitimizing gener...
Transcribe →38. Rebel Talent
Nov 7, 202100:26:09Tap to summarizeIn these turbulent times, business as usual is a recipe for failure. In our work—and in our lives more broadly—we need to challenge the status quo and find new ways to overcome obstacles and capitalize on unexpected opportunities. Our guest in this episode is our Harvard Business School colleague, Francesca Gino. She’s the author of Rebel Talent: Why It Pays to Break the Rules at Work and in Life. As you’ll hear, Fran is something of a rebel herself—and we say that with great respect and admiration. That nature is clear in her research and it’s the cornerstone of her teaching, as well. But when Fran speaks of rebels, she’s not talking about troublemakers, people who are arrogant or hostile. Rather, Fran is fascinated by inventive thinkers who are deeply curious about how things work, while harboring the thought that they could make them work better. They’re the ones who can look at an apparent problem, see it from a new perspective, and transform it into a success. She tells a great story about how the owner of the number-one-rated restaurant in the world witnessed one of his staff drop a dessert and make an utter mess on the kitchen floor. Rather than berate the poor guy, though, the owner saw how the disaster could be turned into one of the most popular items on his menu. The lesson? Organizations need to develop and support a culture that nurtures creative rebelliousness. Fran says that leaders can spot them in an interview. Someone who answers the “what’s one of your weaknesses” question with “I’m too much of a perfectionist” probably isn’t the real deal. Instead, she says “if people are genuinely talking about something that they are not perfect on, that is a challenge for them, that’s a great sign for authenticity.” Take a listen and discover how you can nurture your own, authentic rebellious spirit!
Transcribe →37. Getting a Bad Conversation Back on Track
Sep 21, 202100:15:05Tap to summarizeImagine you’re emailing back and forth with someone trying to resolve a problem. What if you had an app that would track your words and coach you on how to engage more effectively? Or, for that matter, say you’re conversing on Zoom or in-person. Would you use an ear bud that would give you real-time advice on how to tweak what you’re saying and how you’re saying it? Kind of creepy, right? On the other hand, if the issue is important and your relationship is rocky, that kind of support might spell the difference between success and failure. Our guest in this episode is psychologist Mike Yeomans, who teaches negotiation at Imperial College Business School in London. Mike’s research focuses on “conversational receptiveness,” as he calls it. It’s about how we do (or don’t) connect with others verbally. It’s obviously a timely topic. As he says, “We’re having trouble with some of the conversations in our lives these days with all kinds of relationships. Not only in our personal lives, but also in our civic lives, too. It’s tough to talk to people we disagree with.” Mike and his colleagues have toyed with the kind of coaching apps noted above. Their underlying research is based on analysis of real-world transcripts of difficult conversations. (Including, for example, disputes between editors of Wikipedia articles.) For a look at his ongoing work, check out www.mikeyeomans.info.
Transcribe →36. The Conscience Code
Aug 20, 202100:22:43Tap to summarizeRichard Shell, who teaches negotiation at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, is our guest in this episode. His new book, just published this summer, is The Conscience Code: Lead with Your Values, Advance Your Career. It addresses challenging moral issues that arise in negotiation and in leadership, as well. What do we owe others (and why) in regard to fairness, honesty, and the possible use of pressure tactics? We dug deep into those questions. For example, the three of us discussed what we should do if we’re looking to buy a lovely vacation cabin, and its elderly owner has significantly underpriced the property. Should we snap it up, bargain for an even better price, or inform the owner that the price is too low? In the leadership context we spoke about the delicate dance of simultaneously exerting authority and power, while being respectful and empathetic with people we lead. In both settings, Richard emphasized the importance of anticipating tough choices, rather than grappling with them on the fly. He also offered a core principle for making hard decisions. Before acting, always ask yourself, “What would a person of conscience do?” PS: As it happens, Mike recently posted two related articles on related issues on Jazz of Negotiation: “Fair Enough?” and ”Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire.” If you’re curious, take a look and see how your ethical code compares with how Jazz readers responded.
Transcribe →35. The Four P’s of Adaptive Leadership
Jul 26, 202100:29:11Tap to summarizeThe top-down, command-and-control model of leadership has fallen out of fashion in today’s complex and fast-paced world. Our guest in this episode, Rob Wilkinson, provides an agile alternative that he and Kim Leary (co-host here) presented in their recent Harvard Kennedy School working paper, Leading with Intentionality: The 4P Framework for Strategic Leadership. The heart of it, they wrote, is that “leadership . . . is not necessarily about charisma or a powerful personality unleashed. It involves a great deal of reflection, challenging the self, and respect for others.” That’s true for leadership in big organizations and in small teams, as well. In our conversation, Rob and Kim explain their four P’s: Perception, Process, People, and Projection. Each of those elements has both an internal and external component. Internal is looking inward, the self-examination we need to do on our own. External is how we understand and engage with others. On the internal level Perception is about how we comprehend problems and apparent opportunities. We need to be humble about our own assumptions and curious (not dismissive) about others. The second P is Process: the rules, both stated and implicit, about who participates and who is heard. Even seemingly minor decisions, like scheduling a late afternoon meeting, have consequences. That time may be fine for most people, but tough for some others who have childcare responsibilities. Whether you stick with your original time or shift, there will be winners and losers. Then there is P for People. Here Rob and Kim discuss the importance of monitoring both your own feelings and the emotions of the people with whom you work. Someone who feels disrespected, not listened to, can stifle collaboration and hamper implementation. The fourth P is Projection, the way you convey a vision for the future. It’s not just about the words you speak from the head of the table or what gets written in a policy document or contract. It’s how you conduct yourself and model the kind of open engagement that you want others to practice. As you’ll sense, that’s something that Rob and Kim are keenly aware of when teaching their adaptive leadership courses. Yes, they are in positions of authority in front of the classroom. They design the curriculum and do the grading. But they don’t lecture, nor do they grill their students. Instead, with a light hand, they guide discussion, so that everyone is a learner and everyone is a teacher. You’ll definitely get a feel for that, listening to their lively exchange here!
Transcribe →34. Negotiating the Impossible
Jun 15, 202100:26:09Tap to summarizeThat’s the name of a book by our HBS colleague Deepak Malhotra, the guest in this episode. The book’s subtitle is How to Break Deadlocks and Resolve Ugly Conflicts (without Money or Muscle). The cover shows a bomb shaped like a cannonball. Its short fuse is lit and sparking. Deepak is drawn to dangerous problems that others believe are intractable. That interest is grounded in his values and energized by great curiosity, coupled with wit and humor. His dedication to peacemaking is reflected in his research, teaching, and his pro bono work in trouble spots around the globe. Deepak strongly believes that understanding the dynamics of international conflict and civil strife provides important lessons in everyday life. When he teaches in the Families in Business course in the HBS Executive Program, his references to war and peace draw knowing chuckles from participants. As he tells us, “Those elements of identity, respect, non-financial concerns, the long shadow of the past, uncertainty, and ego issues exist in business contexts.” In addition, we also talked with Deepak about his own remarkable career. He attributes much of his success to a willingness to quit what he’s doing, whether that’s walking away from what others would regard as a great job or shutting down a research project that no longer intrigues him. When he was fresh out of college, he quit a job with a prestigious consulting firm, after only a couple of months. He didn’t like having to put on a “game face” and not be his true self. Several years ago a graduating class chose him to speak as part of commencement. His message was: “Quit often and quit early.” That willingness to drop something has opened him up to opportunities he couldn’t have anticipated or planned for. Deepak’s comfortable announcing a bold new course before he’s done any work developing the content. It forces him to get going. When it launches, “some classes go decently near plan and others go nowhere near plan.” For him, teaching is a process of experimentation and ongoing learning on his part. Deepak has a stellar resume. He’s done lab studies, published extensively in academic journals, and has several books under his belt. But even in his writing, he does the unexpected. Earlier this year, he published a sci-fi novel called The Peacemaker’s Code. The hero isn’t a UN diplomat. Rather it’s a young historian who is delegated to enter a spacecraft that has landed on earth. And the alien’s intentions are not known. Listen now to learn more!
Transcribe →