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Did you know that in the original Odysseus poem that Homer wrote, he actually spent a year on Ceres island with his men and slept with her for leverage to get his men transformed back and home. They ended up having three sons together in that time, and in some versions of the story, one of his sons makes his way to Ithaca and kills Odysseus, not knowing that it's his biological father. In other versions of the story, Circe marries her technical stepson Telemachus, the character that is played by Tom Holland in Christopher Nolan's adaptation. I say all this to say that women in Christopher Nolan's adaptation of the Odyssey seem to really be stealing the show. Or maybe that's just my algorithm and the conversations that I'm seeing take place. And in my quest to dive more into the way that Christopher Nolan portrays women in his movies, I came across a really brilliant thesis from a student at the University of Iceland, Svere Sigfusion. All the way back in 2015 is when he wrote this. The thesis is titled Nor Guilt Complex the Death of Women as Catalysts for Character Development and Plot in the Films of Christopher Nolan I want to dedicate this solo episode of Middle Row with Coco Moco to the Odyssey, because it felt wrong to have a podcast in a movie theater and not talk about what might be one of the best Films of the 2020 decade, if not could be looked at as one of the best films of the century. My thesis with this show is to not only talk about a trending topic, but but to only talk about it if I truly feel like I have something new to say that hasn't been said yet. From there, I feel inspired to talk about the female lens of the movie, along with some fun facts about the creation of it, since that's also something really exciting. When I did a podcast episode about Sinners like the clips that went the most viral were about the casting choices, such as how Miles Kton was discovered for Sinners because he was a backup singer for the artist her and someone saw him on stage, found him backstage, and told him to audition for this role even though he had never acted before. So things like that I think are really fascinating about the making of movies. You know, in either the comments or the review of the podcast, what your thoughts were are on the Odyssey, what scenes stood out to you most, and why, and who were some of your favorite characters and portrayals. While this episode may contain spoilers, I will let you know before that portion of the episode begins so you can still listen to the first, like 1/3 to 1 half of this episode freely without me ruining the movie for you if you have not seen it yet. In fact, I'd be curious to hear if any of you watch the movie after this episode and if you can come back and let me know if this kind of feminist lens has any impact on how you view the female characters in this movie. Thank you all so much for tuning into the middle row with Kokomoco. We have some interview episodes coming up that I think you'll be really excited about. I've started this new thing with some of the interviews where I'm sitting, spending the first portion of the episode alone before they come breaking down my theories on their marketing and why this specific artist went viral. So if you miss my marketing deep dives and that's what you kind of love about my content, you can also still get that from the interviews. There's always a reason that I'm having someone on. I think there's always something unique that we can learn about how to stand out yourself if you're a creator or an artist or a brand, or from the strategies of the people that I am having on the show. For example, one of the videos that I did was with the British artist Flower of Love and I spent the first portion of that podcast talking directly to camera about how her winning over this country on the other side of the world is how she became a pop star. And now if you want to be a pop star in Western, globally, whatever it might be, you have to win over this specific country or else it's not going to happen. And I think that's really fascinating. But thank you so much Coconuts for listening to the podcast. Be sure to follow on Spotify, Apple and YouTube so you're notified when the episodes come out every other Monday. And let me know in the reviews or comments what trending topics you want me to cover and what up and coming artists or celebrities you think I should have on right before they blow up. But diving now back into Christopher Nolan's Odyssey, let's discuss Coconuts, a 2015 thesis written by students Very Sec Fusion titled the Nor Guilt Complex the Death of Woman as a Catalyst for Character Development and Plots in the Films of Christopher Nolan. He argues that Christopher Nolan films often use female characters as a one dimensional catalyst or emotional vessel for the male protagonists, albeit this article was written over 10 years ago and Nolan has put out movies since then. But here are some of the examples specifically that SEC Fusion uses in the essay as a support for their thesis. The first one is the Prestige from 2006. And the tragic drowning of Julia, Angier's wife during a stage trick triggers this central destructive rivalry between magicians Angier and Borden. Later, Sarah, Borden's wife dies by suicide due to the secret surrounding Borden's dual life. Analysis is that both primary female characters in the Prestige function as sacrifices on the altar of male obsession and professional rivalry. They are collateral damage in a story that's entirely driven by male ego and obsession. Also writes about the Dark Knight in 2008. Rachel Dawes acts as the moral center and romantic anchor for both Bruce Wayne and Harvey Dent. And her death at the hands of the Joker breaks Harvey Dent into two face and leaves Bruce feeling overwhelmingly guilty. Then he talks about inception from 2010. It's also really impressive that Christopher Nolan put out this level of movies like two years back to back. 2006, 2008, 2010. But in Inception Mall, Cobb's deceased wife manifests literally as this subconscious projection that sabotages his mind heists. And the analysis is that his guilt over her suicide, which he accidentally caused via Inception, is this emotional engine of the film. Mal represents the ultimate expression of the nor guilt complex, where the dead wife literally haunts the male protagonist's inner world and the character played by Elliot Page serves as a guide to help him process his male grief. The movies that came out after this thesis was written but still really rings true in such an eerie way. And I had to re watch the movie when, while I was scripting this just to like try and see it through this new lens. Is Oppenheimer Jean, who is a character played by Florence Pugh and based on a real life person, commit suicide in a bathtub. Although Nolan's visuals of Black Gloves in the scene hint at potential intelligence interference when it came to her life. And her character revolves around Oppenheimer because he's obviously the scientist creating this atomic bomb. He has a wife, but he's having an affair with this girl and he ends up having to distance himself from her because of her ties to the Communist Party. And he needed security clearance for his job. So he distances himself and he ends up feeling a lot of guilt around her eventual death. Throughout the movie you see him dealing with this guilt and. And I think that there's this gray area also between Oppenheimer's wife Kitty and John throughout the movie, which was also kind of a way to show this gray area of loyalty that Oppenheimer had between his dedication to research but his potential dedication to communist ties. So it Kind of shows that Oppenheimer had a great area when it came to his loyalty overall. But instead of that being explicitly expressed through Oppenheimer, Christopher Nolan uses the two female lead characters as a way to kind of hold that gray area so that Oppenheimer can still sort of operate as the hero in the movie. Women are used as these vessels for his emotions. And I also believe that Oppenheimer's guilt and shame around her death was also Christopher Nolan's analogy for Oppenheimer's potential guilt and shame to around the death of those in Japan due to him creating the most catastrophic weapon in human history. So again, like Christopher Nolan, I think in his films really is able to use the female characters and either their tragedy or their bitterness, their anger, their jealousy, their resentment as a way so that we can see that complexity, but without it for fully reflecting on the male protagonist. The male protagonist is able to still stay this hero. Yes, still somewhat complex, but it just feels like women in Nolan films really kind of lack this sort of autonomy and decision. Like they're not really decisive about their own fate. And their storylines are only really ever important if they either face a tragedy that acts as a catalyst for the male protagonists or male characters, or they're representing some sort of emotion that's never really resolved. Page 11 of the thesis SIG Fusion writes, There is a certain paradox in Nolan's films narratives as the female characters are simultaneously hypothetically, supremely important, yet they are usually absent and without agency. In other words, women are crucial in his films, but rarely in proactive ways and they're almost always ultimately disempowered. I really encourage you guys to read this thesis or at least scan through it because it's really kind of eerie reading something that was written over 10 years ago and yet it still rings true today. So I will link out where I found the article and where you can download it. And they really did such a great job like breaking down different movies that Christopher Nolan has made. And this sort of lens in which like it's truly a pattern in Nolan's films where the female characters always have either some sort of tragedy or are only used as a vessel for the male emotions. Want to take a second to compare Christopher Nolan's female protagonists in his movies to other prolific male directors. Steven Spielberg often portrays active female leads who take charge of their fate, like Dr. Ellie Sattler in Jurassic park, whereas Nolan's female leads are often passively at the mercy of others actions and decisions without any agency. And if they do survive, they still lack agency over their future, such as Penelope in the Odyssey. Another prolific director is James Cameron and what is seen as one of the best movies of the 20th century, Titanic Rose, the female lead, is seen as a survivor, isn't seen, but is a survivor, is a protagonist, and is even a narrator. Something that you don't see in Nolan's films. Now this is of course not to rag on Christopher Nolan. I think that his movies are some of the best that are ever made. And I believe it is understandable that a male director would look at things through a male lens. But I do think that this perspective is still worthy with sitting with. And I also want to note that since I started making a few tik toks teasing this episode and I was talking about Christopher Nolan's blind spot, it's so interesting. I don't do as many episodes about movies. I'm more about pop culture and music. But obviously I love movies. It's why I have a podcast in a movie theater. I love going to the movies. I literally just met Tom Cruise in a movie theater and got to tell him about my show in a movie theater. And like, just. I just love people that are keeping movie theaters alive. So with all that being said, I don't always talk about movies, but it is so crazy the way that women who talk about film, they're like the strongest soldiers on the Internet. Like the film bros and just the film community hate when women have opinions on films unless it's like a surface level rom com. Whereas I've seen some videos of really brilliant people talking or critiquing Christopher Nolan. But if they're a man, their critiques are seen as valid. But if it's a woman, totally bashed. Like I within like five minutes of one of my videos about the Odyssey being up, someone commented and they were like, you need to get educated. The Odyssey is very historically accurate. And my response to that is also like, the Odyssey is historically accurate to Greece the way Harry Potter is historically accurate to Britain. Like, this is a movie about gods and monsters. Like it's not real, it's. It's fiction. Like it's a what? Like, how can it be historically accurate? It's literally fiction. And I did reference Homer's poem. He actually wrote two poems, not just one, in case you didn't know. And when I start talking about a certain thing that Nolan changed that, I won't give away a spoiler just yet. That did not happen in the original Odyssey poem by Homer. That is a decision, a creative decision that Christopher Nolan made. So it's actually if you think that, like, poems about monsters and gods are true and historically accurate, Christopher Nolan went off the script. So I did do my research and I am educated. And we're also just giving our opinion on things. And women should be able to give their opinion on things without being called ugly, fat, dumb, uneducated. Because I don't see those comments in the men's videos. And not that anyone should be getting those comments, but I, like, just have so much respect for women that make videos about film a lot. Like, there's one girl named Snoobs Online. There's one girl, her username is Film Sis. Like, they are. They are just trailing ahead with putting their opinions out there. And it matters so much because it's not like a welcoming space at all for women. Um, so I say all that to say that I did do my research, but this is opinions based, okay? It's opinions based. So you can have a differing opinion from me. It doesn't mean I'm stupid. So I just want to say that now, moving forward, there will be spoilers into the Odyssey movie by Christopher Nolan. So pause the show now if you do not want me to spoil anything before you saw the movie. And I also just have to say I got so lucky because I got to see the movie Friday, which when it came out, because I don't know how this happened, but I went on the AMC app and I looked at tickets at the Grove and there was one seat left in the IMAX with recliner seats for The Odyssey at 2pm, an hour before it started, someone must have canceled their ticket. So that is how I was able to see it. Opening weekend in imax. We are diving into the part of the episode where I'm going to break down some of the female characters. There's still a lot more female characters in this, by the way, so these are just some of the ones that I wanted to examine through the lens of Christopher Nolan and his pattern of how he depicts women. And I also just want to add to that while I'm critiquing the women's place in the storylines. I also just want to say that I do appreciate that Christopher Nolan doesn't like, objectify or over sexualize women, so it could be a lot worse. But here we go. The main female leads in this movie is, of course, Penelope. And in the Odyssey by Nolan, Penelope is portrayed by Anne Hathaway. She's the wife of Odysseus and she's in charge of the throne of Ithaca. While he goes on his decades long voyage to fight in the Trojan War. Unlike many other wives in Nolan films, Penelope does not suffer a fateful death. She doesn't commit suicide and it doesn't become a catalyst for the male lead. Instead, she survives until the end. But I will say she does survive in the original poem. So if it was like an original screenplay by Christopher Nolan, maybe she would have had a more fateful death. Who knows? But let's examine if her character has agency to buy more time. As she's waiting for Odysseus to return home, she promises to choose a husband as soon as she finishes weaving a burial shroud for for her father in law. She weaves during the day but secretly unwinds it at night to give herself more time before needing to choose a new husband. While the weaving and waiting is a decision that she secretly makes, it still feels like a passive decision. A male lead would most likely have just told the suitors to F off and that he wants to wait for his wife to come home. And I understand that this story is based off of Homer's poem and not Nolan's own doing, but like I said earlier, if it was Nolan in charge of Penelope's fate, would he have maybe killed her off as a way to hold the guilt and regret for Odysseus's character development? While Penelope is holding the line hoping for Odysseus to return, her character is being pushed by her son Telemachus to make a decision soon, even though he also hopes that his dad will return home one day. Instead of choosing a suitor that best fits her when the time comes, she has them compete in a bow and arrow challenge using her husband's former bow. Another decision that feels passive versus active character that really stole the show is Cersei. She has been getting so much buzz online. The actress Samantha Morton. And while her character only appears for 20 minutes near the middle of the movie, she is a catalyst for almost all of Act 3. And her motives feel the most understandable and relatable to women watching the movie. Cersei is a witch who lives on an island alone and she has magical powers, otherwise known as a witch at the time, she uses potions to turn the men who wash ashore after battle and into animals and they're there seeking food and refuge and she kind of uses that to her advantage. She sees them as savages. In the original story, Odysseus actually stays on her island for a year. In the movie, he's maybe there for like 30 minutes. It seems like, very quick. And he just goes up to her little hut and he begs her to let his men turned back into humans because she turned them into pigs. And then she's like, okay, like, there was no fight or anything, which is. I thought that was interesting. But in the original story, he stays on that island for a year willingly. Only one of the soldiers was suspicious of her when they first arrived and he ran away to warn Odysseus not to eat her poisonous food. He sets out alone to confront her and a God named Hermes intercepts him disguised as a young man. Hermes gives him this herb, moley, and lays out the exact plan. When Cersei's drug fails to work on him, turning him into an animal, he must draw his sword and rush at her as if he's going to kill her, at which point she'll be frightened and invite him into her bed instead. He should accept, and sleeping with her is what will secure his men's release. Now, you might think like, okay, so he has to sleep with her once. It's because he needs to release his men. In the original book, Odysseus stays there for an entire year, so it's not like he was really being held there against his will. D' Orsay transforms his men back and what was supposed to be a brief stop turns into a full year of feasting and comfortable with Odysseus as her lover. Until it's his crew in the original story that has to be the one to remind him that they want to go home. Whereas in Christopher Nolan's adaptation, Odysseus is not there for long. He is loyal to Penelope, as loyal as he can be. It's not his fault, but again, like, he kind of turns the women into either villains or he turns them into any sort of like vessel so that the male lead can still stay polished and a hero. Best selling modern novel by Madeline Miller called Circe. She dives deeper into the witch's story and her interpretation of the witch. In an interview with the New York Times, Miller explained her thesis directly. She sees Circe as the embodiment of male anxiety about female power, which is precisely why the original myth has to end with her vanquished. Her novel works to undo that. Reviewers have noted how Miller reimagined Circe as an autonomous protagonist whose narrative challenges the power structures in the original telling. In contrast to Penelope or Helen, whose lives in Homer, his poem largely revolve around men's desires and decisions. So. So out of all of the characters, it seems like Cersei has the most autonomy. He is seen as really villainous and evil in the original play, but it is modern interpretations that allow her to have a somewhat understandable motive for why she despises men who come to take her land and her food. She's always just a pit stop, not a destination. And in Nolan's interpretation, Odysseus is seen as a man who outsmarts her. And her character gives in so quickly. But in the original poem, he stays for a year and it's his men who had to convince him to leave. So Odysseus is not as innocent as he looks. In the movie by Nolan, Circe is not an active participant in her destiny. She only commits these villainous acts when men stumble onto her island. I can't decide if I feel that Cersei and Nolan's interpretation of fall under this pattern of passive female character, that kind of act as a vessel for regret or emotion for male leads versus being their own fully fledged character. But I am curious what you guys think. I think she's the most gray area for me when it comes to Nolan's interpretation. And as always, like, there's no right or wrong answer. I would just love to know what you guys think. Our main female character in Nolan's film and the original poem is Calypso. In Homer's poem, Odysseus's time on her island is actively the first setting of the novel. The story of his battles and conflicts following what happened at Troy are told through flashbacks while he's on the island with her. In Greek mythology, Calypso is a nymph. This is not someone who's a God per se, but they have lived a really long life in a kind of mystical way while maintaining a youthful appearance. And they can often represent something in nature, so like trees or the ocean. Calypso, specifically, she was banished to an island alone for helping the Titans in their war with the Olympians. Lonely, she falls in love with Odysseus after he washes up ashore. She offers him eternal youth and immortality if he stays with her on the island. Her name derives from a Greek meaning to conceal or to hide, which is mirrored in her role in the poem. She keeps home and memories hidden from Odysseus in an attempt to halt his yearning to return. In the original poem, Athena pleads with Zeus to help get Odysseus home, since she knows that his true internal world and desire is to leave. So complies to Hermes's pitch to allow Odysseus to go home to Ithaca. But not without pointing out that she's much more beautiful than his mortal, aging wife, Penelope. While Odysseus agrees, he says that he wants to go home anyways. In the poem, she represents the theme of the story. Why do humans prefer home and comfort over eternal youth, beauty and paradise? And Nolan's adaptation, she uses a lotus flower to erase Odysseus's memory and thus desire to go home. But in the original Homer poem, that lotus flower that she's using to drug him is a completely separate part of the story. And Calypso doesn't actually do that in the original poem. In Homer's poem, Calypso solely relies on love and comfort as temptation to keep him around, not a drug. Instead of having her character be persuasive through emotional complexity, love and nurture, nurturing like in the original story, Christopher Nolan has Calypso combine her with a different subplot about the lotus flower that changes her from persuasive and complex to a one dimensional woman who has to drug a man to keep him around. So again, this kind of theme of Nolan changing a woman in his stories to either being tragic or being maybe some sort of villain representing resentment or anger or jealousy, so that that is not something that the man necessarily has to represent, even though he is also experiencing those things as well. And for the final female lead in the film, who only appears briefly in a few scenes, but holds potentially the most weight in defining Odysseus's psych motives and spirituality, is Athena, played by Zendaya. In the original poem by Homer, Athena is the God of war and wisdom and the daughter of Zeus. She's first introduced as a mentor to Telemachus, the character played by Tom Holland disguised as a family friend. She's the one who convinced him to travel to Sparta to seek news about his father before giving up all hope and letting a suitor take the throne while she's in disguise in the poem. Nolan doesn't quite explain this in the movie. Instead, the loyal and blind elder is the one who encourages Telemachus to go on that journey. In the original poem, it actually starts out with Athena pleading to Zeus to help release Odysseus from Calypso's grip, while she's the one who sets the tone for the epic ahead. In the poem, she does not appear until later in Christopher Nolan's movie and Nolan's interpretation, she switches from a tactical ally and kindred spirit and instead becomes another woman who is a vessel for guilt for the male protagonists. One of Nolan's most Most breathtaking moments in the film is when he reveals at the end that Athena was a girl who was decapitated. And in the siege of Troy by Odysseus's brutal soldiers, was Athena disguising herself as a mere mortal to see if Odysseus would step up and protect Zeus's law in that moment, Zeus's law was a moral code that one must treat strangers with kindness and hospitality as they might be a God in disguise testing them. Athena in the Odyssey movie also just seems to represent the PTSD that Odysseus faces as a result of his brutal war and ambition. Once again, Nolan takes away the active role of Athena from the original poem and instead turns her into a passive character that meets a really brutal death, one who cannot control her own fate. Instead, she's forever tied now to this male protagonist who witnessed, or was the cause of, depending on how you interpret it, her brutal death. Similar to other Nolan films like the Prestige and Dark Knight, the death of a female character then becomes the catalyst for future decisions made by the male protagonists. It becomes a way to humanize the male lead while dehumanizing a potentially well rounded female character. Is it a coincidence that Christopher Nolan took a female God, Athena, who was powerful, decisive and autonomous in the original poem by Homer, and instead turned her into a slain mortal girl who then becomes a representation of guilt for the male lead? Is that Christopher Nolan's M.O. when writing female characters of the female characters in the Nolan interpretation of the Odyssey represent different emotions and motives or catalysts for these male protagonists. Penelope represented being homesick, Circe represented his men's gluttony, Calypso represented his memories, and Athena represented his guilt side of his portrayal of women in films. I still think that Christopher Nolan's movies are well rounded, well written, beautifully executed in a way that we haven't really ever seen before in cinema. I'm so grateful for this art and for the movie and how inspiring it is the to know that we've not really lost touch with humans wanting to tell stories in real ways along with the themes and patterns that we see in Christopher Nolan's films. I'm also interested and fascinated by the creation. One of the standout performances for me was Samantha Morton as Circe. Even though she was not in the full length of the film, maybe only 10 to 20 minutes, I'd be curious to see if she secures a supporting actress nomination at the Oscars. She told Variety magazine in June that she cried when she got the call that she had been cast in an Olin film. She had felt that her career has dried up and there weren't many roles left for older legacy actresses in Hollywood. She admittedly had not read Homer's original poem, but her initial exposure when she found out about the role was to the Simpsons episode that explored the Odyssey. Another person that really stood out to me was Himesh Patel, despite him not being as massive of a star as some of the other actors in the movie. When I looked him up on Instagram after I saw the Odyssey, he only had like 60, 000 followers on Instagram, but I actually think he stole the show. He is to the Odyssey what miles Kate and was to sinners. While Kate and had never acted before, he was scouted backstage while performing for the backup singer H.E.R.. Patel, though, had acted before. In fact, he appeared in Christopher Nolan's film Tenet, but despite that, he had not become a household name, at least not in America. But I think that's going to change. I could see him getting a supporting actor nomination at the Oscars. He told the Hollywood Reporter that Christopher Nolan operates in a very covert way when creating a film. After being cast in the Odyssey, he had to meet Nolan's wife, Emma Thomas at a coffee shop to be physically handed the script because they didn't want there to be a digital version of it out there to prevent leaks. One of the most confusing casting choices for me was Travis Scott. He's the first person that actually appears in the entire film and then briefly appears near the end. He plays a bard. I had to humbly look up what that meant because everyone in the comments was like, well, he's a bard, he's a bard. I'm like, no one's saying what a bard is. And I doubt all these comments know they're just repeating what they're seeing. So Abard is an oral historian and poet who was tasked with passing down stories. They were highly respected and advised the Royal Court. They almost kind of sound like what podcasters are now. I'm just kidding. But they originated in Celtic and Welsh societies. Nolan told Time magazine that the reason he cast a rapper in this role is because bards often spoke in a rhythmic pattern which mirrors the rap music that we know today. It's hard to contend with Travis Scott and his ability to still be embraced by some corners of the entertainment industry despite what happened at his festival, AstroWorld. As we all know, Travis Scott continued to perform despite reports that people were in critical condition in his crowd, leading to the death of 10 people, including a nine year old boy, I saw Travis Scott perform at Coachella years before AstroWorld, and I remember him saying like me and my friends left because he was literally like, if I don't see blood by the time I'm done here, like you guys didn't rage hard enough. He was saying that to his audience at Coachella. So I'm like, I like do think that there were foreshadowings and that he was really negligent. According to NBC News, Travis Scott reached a confidential settlement with nine out of the ten victims. So far. He and Live Nation have also reached hundreds of settlements for injuries and trauma before the civil case was set to begin. While it's really disheartening to see someone whose criminal negligence and just pattern of escalating behavior at previous concerts get a role in a massive film, it does make me wonder if Christopher Nolan was using him as a foreshadow and kind of like a sneak diss to him. In a way, his character was preaching to the suitors that waiting in Penelope's castle, hoping to overtake the throne once she gave up hope that Odysseus would make it home. And seeing what happens to those men in the end of the movie, it kind of seems like Travis Scott was a foreshadow or a warning. Travis Scott will forever now represent destruction, bad luck, death, tragedy. Was Nolan kind of like slightly dissing Travis Scott with this role by using Travis Scott's character as a foreshadow of the pain and death that was about to happen to the people that he was performing for? Let me know what your guys thoughts are. What are some other characters that stood out to you in Nolan's Odyssey? I didn't have time to dive into everyone who left an impact on me when I watched the film. I could literally write a dissertation on so many of the characters and my interpretations of them, and I hope I really reached my goal of bringing something new to the table. Amongst all of the other brilliant people talking about the Odyssey right now, the episode after this one is going to be with Rebecca Black. I'm so excited to dive into her evolution as an artist and what I think it means for someone who might want to evolve their own personal brand or artistic vision or product. So feel free to leave a suggestion for future episodes of this podcast in the comment section on YouTube or in the reviews on Apple and Spotify. You can also join my best selling sub stack if you want to chat with us about upcoming episodes, trending Topics Marketing Deep Dives I started a chat about the Odyssey and some of you guys were leaving your thoughts, which I thought was really cool. So thank you so much for being a coconut and share this episode with a friend who loves pop culture and marketing as much as we do. Foreign.