← Middle Row w Coco Mocoe
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Transcript279 lines
- [00:00]
A
Look better without the glasses or with the glasses? No, the glasses aren't a problem, I don't think. Put them on again. Yeah. I feel like they're a vibe. As long as you're just aware that there is, like, the reflection is gonna be going in and out, then let me just clean those glasses on.
- [00:18]
B
Yeah. Nobody can. I have to make it look like I'm smart. Everyone. When I wear the glasses in my comments, they call me Velma trademark.
- [00:27]
A
I don't even know what the train.
- [00:31]
C
Yeah.
- [00:32]
A
What's going to be doomed. Oh, my God.
- [00:36]
C
I know. It's.
- [00:37]
A
Now that I think about it, there's this one, like, drag Queen that does, like, cosplays of Velma.
- [00:41]
C
Oh, really?
- [00:44]
A
And they, like, refer to all, like, all the animated movies as, like. Like, all the inside jokes. And, like, they cover all the songs in the animated movies.
- [00:50]
C
Oh, my God.
- [00:52]
A
I think it's.
- [00:54]
C
Yeah.
- [00:54]
B
I'm like, I might as well lean into the Velma branding since it goes more viral when I look like her.
- [00:58]
A
You should dress up as her.
- [00:59]
B
I think I will. Yeah, I know. I think I will. And also asking my friends, I'm like, what do they mean by trade? They're like. It means, like, DL. Oh, man, that's so funny. Yay. Thank you, Matthew. Okay. Are we speeding?
- [01:21]
A
Just one quick check on.
- [01:22]
B
Testing, testing.
- [01:23]
A
You can bring your mic in just a little closer. Hello, hello, hello.
- [01:27]
B
Sounds.
- [01:27]
A
Testing, testing, testing. We're speeding across the board. Fantastic.
- [01:31]
B
All right, so we're gonna watch the music video.
- [01:33]
A
Yay.
- [01:34]
B
Okay.
- [01:40]
A
God, I haven't watched this in a while, actually.
- [01:49]
B
The vampire tea.
- [02:02]
C
John Paul Gay. Tastes like a Somalier. Got bitches wanting their hands all up on my bustier. You can't catch up to me. Cold heart with a pretty face? I'll make you lose. I love you. Cool. Just say you want to play. Now that we're up and down, our bodies in motion? Go ahead and figure out I am the commotion.
- [02:35]
B
Did you have, like, sandball over you after that?
- [02:38]
A
Honestly, we shot that last.
- [02:46]
B
Did you grow up dancing?
- [02:47]
A
This is my first one.
- [02:49]
B
Oh, my God, you're so good at it.
- [02:51]
A
I've never danced before in my life.
- [02:53]
C
Wow. Boy, you sleep in the daytime. I'm working six to nine. Go Studio Gym. No, that's right, Another hit. Put it under my belt. One look and these boys all melt. I saw my teeth got my degree, Mom's got it on their shelf. No emotion, I got you where I want. Your heartbeat is frozen. Now that we're up and down our bodies in motion Go ahead and figure out I am the commotion. Say goodbye One season you'll be mine can't promise you'll survive Just make him through the night
- [03:41]
B
oh, my God.
- [04:08]
A
I think that part. He actually slammed my head into the wall and actually hurt so bad.
- [04:20]
B
Are the backs, like, they want to spinny wheel or no, they were like,
- [04:23]
A
bsb, like, after I had, like, my friend ad them.
- [04:44]
B
So he's a vampire too. That was the twist.
- [04:46]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [04:47]
B
Oh, so good.
- [04:48]
A
I got. I got the sweet trade. Got the beast trade in the end.
- [04:54]
B
Oh, yes. Yay. This guy also looks like Jacob Elordi.
- [04:58]
A
Does he?
- [04:59]
B
Side note. When I first saw this music video, I'm like, Jacob Elordi. Oh, my gosh.
- [05:02]
A
Okay, from this shot a little bit, maybe from, like, the eyes, but then, like, in person, I. I never clock that.
- [05:09]
C
Okay.
- [05:09]
B
Yeah, maybe it's like, only. Do you want to watch Bo? Let me see the time. I think we'll. We'll dive into the interview, and then maybe if we have time at the end.
- [05:17]
A
Yeah, Cool.
- [05:18]
B
Okay. Thank you for coming on.
- [05:20]
A
Oh, my God. Thanks for having me.
- [05:21]
B
I'm so excited to have you on. I was asking you this off camera, and we were like, wait, we have to save it for the interview.
- [05:27]
A
Yeah.
- [05:28]
B
How did you come up with the name Mad?
- [05:30]
A
Oh, God. Okay. So basically, I started writing, like, songs when I was, like, 12 or 13. I was in middle school, so I. And I fully started out not knowing, like, anything. Like, literally nothing at all. Not even, like, much musically, because I took, like, I was in, like, marching band as a kid. I played, like, drums, and then I took piano lessons when I was a kid. Like, when. Since I was, like, a really, really small kid. However, like, my family, like, I never really grew up around a lot like Amani, so my parents really tried to support where they could. So my parents enrolled me in group piano classes, which is as insane as it sounds. Like there is, like, 15 upright pianos lined across this massive room. And my piano teacher, who was like, he would, like, chain smoke. Like, he would be like, oh, guys, I gotta take a break. And then, like, he would come back smelling like cigarettes. And, like, he would walk around each piano and be like, just play this, play this, play this. And I never learned how to read music because, like, I mean, how could you learn music that way? And I would just listen to what the previous kid was playing behind me, and I would just end up just, like, recreate it. So I didn't know anything, like, musically. So when I got into songwriting, I was like, you know what? I want to be a songwriter. And I'm like, I'm gonna figure this out. And so, God help me, I'm gonna. I'm gonna figure it out. And when I was in seventh grade and, like, eighth grade, starting to write these songs, I was honestly, don't even know what I was going through. I just was, like, very, like, woe is me. I'm so depressed. Like, nobody understands me. Like. And bless, bless little Mad's heart because, like, I really. I was writing these, like, so deeply sad songs. I was a Tumblr kid because I was same. I was addicted to Tumblr. I was like. I was like, nobody understands the way I feel and all this stuff. But basically I wrote like, this entire, like, concept album when I was, like, 13, surrounded around, like, Alice in Wonderland, because that was, like, my favorite book and my favorite movie growing up, and I was just obsessed with it. And I like the name mad. M A D used to be, like, an acronym, and I'll literally never say what it stands for because it's so cringey. It's okay. I made it in middle school, mind you. So when I became an artist, people are asking me, like, what's your artist name? And I used to tell them just, like, mad. Like, Mad. And then I heard back, and they're like, so you can't actually brand the name Mad because that's, like, a really common word. And I was like, okay, that's fair. And then I was like, okay, why don't I add my last name to it? Like, my real last name to it. So it ended up just becoming Mad. Psy.
- [08:19]
B
Okay. I love it. I really like that name. It's so funny you're saying, like, the person was chain smoking because, like, I probably would, too, if I had, like, 15 kids. Like, like, noise pollution.
- [08:31]
A
Oh, my God.
- [08:31]
C
Yeah.
- [08:32]
A
No, he. He took breaks constantly. He was always just like, yeah, like, just give me a break. And then he would go outside for, like, 10 minutes and come back, and I'd be like, that's, like, like a sixth of the class. So I was just like, okay. But, yeah, like, when I was writing these songs, I created this character, and it was. He was named Mad, and it was like, this overconfident person, like, all these different aspects that I really felt like I never really represented. And I just really loved, like, the idea of coming up with, like, a character, like an alter ego, as, like, an artist. And, like, that's kind of the way that I. I navigate the world. You Know, like, that's how I break out of my shell, by becoming a character.
- [09:12]
B
So is Mad a reference to, like, the Mad Hatter?
- [09:14]
C
Yeah.
- [09:15]
B
Okay. Wow.
- [09:17]
A
And same thing with, like, my Instagram handle, like, Mads Tea Party. And I call, like, my fans the Teacups or the Tea Party. Wait, okay.
- [09:24]
B
That makes so much sense.
- [09:25]
A
Yeah.
- [09:26]
B
I actually have noticed this happens in some of the interviews. I do. Like, I think Jade did it, Adela. But a lot of artists actually will sometimes refer to themselves in, like, third person. Like, they create those alter egos and, like, it's like. I almost think it's, like, a form of mental protection in a way to, like, see yourself as almost different when you're in the artist world.
- [09:47]
A
Yeah, I think it's so funny because I think when people know me in real life and, like, see me in real life, like, I'm a very different person than, like, my personality online or, like, in my music. Because obviously, I'm very, like, in your face in my music, and I'm very, like, loud and, like, boisterous and, like, very unapologetic and stuff. But, like, me as a person, I'm actually very reserved. Like, I don't really leave my house. Like, I'm very introverted. Like, the only times that I. I appreciate my alone time more than anything. Like, I really don't go out or anything. Like, are you. So I think, like, by becoming an artist, this has kind of been my outlet of exploring the world in a different way. Like, I kind of see it through the lens of, like, a character, and I don't really see it through the lens of me. So then when I. I can go back into myself and, like, protect myself, you know, it's like, it is a form of self protection, you know?
- [10:40]
B
I think it is. And it's funny you say that because, like, looking at your social media, I would assume you were, like, the most, like, Project X. Like, Party. Like, like, Social.
- [10:50]
A
That's, like, my worst nightmare.
- [10:54]
B
That's so funny. Dang. Like, it obviously, like, that character is, like, this, like, extreme version of something you're exploring, which is really cool. Now you pulled in, like, 200 million streams on your own before signing with the label you're at now. Are there any decisions you made that you felt, like, really moved the needle for you in terms of, like, garnering those streams without, like, a traditional marketing budget behind you?
- [11:25]
A
To be completely honest, I had, like, zero clue what I was doing. Okay, well, that's not, like, fully true. I, like, definitely was, like, I knew that I had these songs and I was writing these songs. Everything happened so fast because, like, when I started posting all my little videos onto TikTok, like, I didn't expect anything to like, land, you know, I was just like, I'm just like, writing these songs are fun. Like, these are writing exercises. I'm like, kind of not taking it seriously. And like, that's why a lot of like my early songs are a bit like, out there. And like, like you have like Stacey's Brother and Killer Queen, which are like these huge fictional narratives and stuff that like, just seem a little outlandish and like, like fun and like silly, you know, like, and I really. I was in school at the time. I was at ucla and I was studying to get like my degree and everything. I was an English major. And I was like, I was like, I literally don't know what's happening. Like, because I would wake up and the previous video that I posted the night before, we got like a million views and like people demanding the song. And I'd be like, I have class. I have class to go to right now.
- [12:31]
B
Like, crazy. I didn't know that. I didn't know you were in college while this was starting to happen.
- [12:34]
A
Yeah, I was like, I. I was like 18 or 19, like when all this started happening and everything just hit me like a truck. Like, I think everything just happened so fast and I didn't really know what to do with it, but I knew that there was something there and I knew that there was demand for the songs. And so like, I was learning how to produce while I was at ucla, like, and I had zero clue about any production. I spent like my high school graduation money on getting like, equipment and I would lug it around in my backpack and after class I would like pull it out into the library and I would have these like massive headphones in and I would just be like pressing on my like little mini like keyboard in the library. And I looked so ridiculous. I actually looked so ridiculous doing it. But I'm so grateful that I learned how to like, produce myself and how to like be self sufficient as an artist because I was marketing everything by myself. No team, no nothing. Just literally pink sun, heart glass, pink sunglasses in a dream. Like, it was just me and my little like, ukulele in a dream. Like, I was just. I used to like challenge myself to write a song every single day and post it the same day. And I was also working at a restaurant at the same time that all this was going down. So I would. This is like the, the day back in like 2020, 2021. Like I would wake up immediately clock in and go into like my online classes because it was Covid. And then I would like finish all my homework immediately after. I would do it as fast as possible. I would start writing a song and if I didn't finish it, then I'd be like, oh God, okay. And then I would go to work, work a whole shift at this poke shop where I was like, I was slinging raw fish. And then I would come back home, finish writing the song, record said song in like one take. I would edit the video and then I would post it at 9pm on the dot.
- [14:28]
C
Wow.
- [14:28]
A
And then I would go to sleep and wake up and the next morning it would have a million views and I'd be like, I'd be like, oh, light work. It was crazy. Oh my God.
- [14:37]
B
It makes me think of like that meme of Cynthia Rivia being like, I didn't know this was happening. Like, you just like wake up the next morning, you're like, oh, I didn't know this was happening.
- [14:44]
A
Like it went viral, that Lady Gaga video where she's like, bus, bus tour. Next bus club. Like, it's literally like I was running songwriting tick tock, like the Navy at one point. And then I like literally actually didn't even know the impact it had on these very niche communities like Gotcha and like Royale High and like Roblox and all these different edits and stuff. And people are like running with these songs and like turning them into like full fledged like animations and movies and everything. And then I would discover this like months later and I'd be like, where did this come from? Like, I don't even know.
- [15:18]
C
Wow.
- [15:18]
B
That leads me like into my next question, which is I'm an angle about this interview that I'm really fascinated by is you specifically have really like gone viral because of these fan edits. Like when I was researching you and your sounds like your songs have thousands of videos of people like overlaying them into like different TV shows and stuff. Was that something that you were intentional? Like, did you ever post a video and you were like, use this for edits? Or do you think there was a decision you made that you didn't even realize that that was gonna happen?
- [15:54]
A
No, I think just like a lot of the songs, especially some, a lot of my earlier songs are just so intrinsically like, like edit for me in a way. I don't know how a better way
- [16:07]
B
to describe, but it's like Your generation, like, you were like, blowing up, like, in 2020.
- [16:11]
A
Tick tock.
- [16:11]
B
Like, that was like, the way media was being created.
- [16:14]
A
Yeah, I think, like, I grew up in, like, very much. Like, because the thing is, I was never a very, like, tech savvy person or, like, social media savvy person. Like, I didn't even know who Rihanna was until, like, seventh grade because, like, my parents kept me so sheltered. Like, I didn't have access to, like, any technology. Basically, like, I was very sheltered.
- [16:33]
B
Where did you grow up?
- [16:33]
A
I grew up in Orange County. I was, like, born in la, but then raised between Orange county and la.
- [16:38]
B
Me too. I'm from Long Beach.
- [16:39]
A
Oh my God. Amazing.
- [16:40]
B
Wa, Like a LA oc.
- [16:42]
C
Oh my God. Yes.
- [16:42]
A
Yes. Yeah.
- [16:43]
B
Okay.
- [16:44]
A
But yeah, like, my grandma's house was in la, so I would constantly be there, like every single weekend. And then I would go back to O.C. so, like, I kind of got the best of both worlds and kind of saw all this and yeah, like, everything, all the songs that I was putting out just kind of naturally gravitated into their own niche communities. And I think by me exploring my weirdness in exploring, like, my niche weird interests, like, because I love horror movies and I love creating these, like, fictional narratives and writing these outlandish songs and stuff. And I think it was so fun for me that it was so fun for other people to like, create these edits and like, you know, explore their own niche interests and stuff. So it just kept on expanding.
- [17:25]
B
Wow. That what you're saying, it makes me think of. There's a saying in marketing that's like, in order to be interesting, you have to have interests. So, like, you do have to build your own inner world. And, like, you know, audiences will attach to that versus being like, how do I get attention? How do I be interesting? But, like, just knowing what you like.
- [17:43]
A
Yeah. I think, like, the one thing that I've, like, learned this past year, I felt like my frontal lobe, like, literally, like, snapped in place this year. It's so crazy is there's only like, one thing in this life that is the easiest thing that you could possibly do, and that is to be more you. And it's like, I, I think I'm in this space where I'm just trying to be more me. And whatever that means, wherever I instinctively feel like it leads me, then that is me, you know, Like, I want to explore being me.
- [18:15]
B
Yeah, yeah, I know. I, I, I love that. It's like being like, radically honest and in order. Like, someone in my comment section Said this once, and I've always held on to it. They say in order to be magnetic, you also have to be repellent. So, like, if you really want to attract your people and your audience, like, you have to understand that the more magnetic you are, like, also, you're gonna put some people off.
- [18:38]
A
Yeah.
- [18:38]
B
But that means you're, like, doing it right.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah. Because I feel like if you're a friend to everybody, then you're a friend to nobody.
- [18:44]
C
Yeah.
- [18:44]
A
Like, you have to stand for something. You have to have a backbone and, like, you know, advocate for yourself, you know? Like, I feel like it's. If no one's advocating for me, then nobody's advocating for me, but I'm like, my. I have to be my biggest supporter at the end of the day.
- [18:58]
B
Yeah. And your. Your journey that I've learned so far, it kind of reminds me of, like, Alex Warren, who he shouted out Book Talk as a niche that, like, made Ordinary viral and landed him a Best New Artist nomination. Is there, like, any specific, like, either TV shows or. Or movies that you have noticed them using the edits for, or do you sometimes see the edit? Oh, okay. For example, like, bts, like, there's a viral video of your sound to bts, like, in an interview, I'm like, that's crazy. But, like, do you feel like there's any specific shows or has it been pretty across the board or even, like, a genre?
- [19:37]
A
Yeah, I mean, I've been seeing a lot of, like, K Pop edits and K Drama edits. I feel like there's, like, definitely a niche there for my music for. For whatever reason, and I honestly love it because it gives me recommendations of, like, shows.
- [19:51]
B
Oh, yes, that's true.
- [19:52]
A
And also, I just, like, love all the K Pop edits. I think that's the only time that ever kind of, like, planted a seed for something, because I'm, like, a huge fan of some. Of, like, some of the groups, and especially, like, of my favorite, like, boy group is Ateez. Okay. And I'm, like, a huge fan of one of the members because I think he's just so. Which one, son?
- [20:12]
C
Okay.
- [20:15]
A
I'm, like, plugging. Plugging Ateez.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah.
- [20:17]
A
No, but I adore them, and I just. I just think they're beautiful, you know? And I was like, just, guys just make some edits to him, to my songs. And I feel like it kind of spiraled from there because people were making edits, and then some of them went pretty viral, and I was like, oh, my God. Did, like, did I do this. And then other people started making these edits and stuff and they just kind of like translated across.
- [20:40]
B
Yeah.
- [20:41]
A
Like the whole thing.
- [20:42]
B
Oh my gosh. Like, I didn't know that was happening.
- [20:45]
A
I didn't know this was happening.
- [20:47]
B
That's so good. Okay, so moving over into songs like Stray, you've kind of been able to turn some like online drama and criticism into these like massive rollout moments. Was that something you were intentional about or were you. Are you sometimes afraid to acknowledge if you're getting criticism? Like, I know some people like shut it out.
- [21:07]
A
Yeah. I mean, if you asked me this question like three years ago, I feel like I would have had a completely different answer. I would have said like, no. Like, I don't want to be confrontational. I don't want to address any of this stuff because I don't want to give people more fuel to like hate me and stuff. But at the end of the day, like, I'm just like, if, if people like me, they like me and if they don't like me, then they don't like me. And that's totally fine. Like, I really don't care. Like, because I think when everything was happening, like when I was putting out these songs onto TikTok and social media and everything was blowing up and mind you, during the Stacey's Brother era, I was completely independent. I fully funded that music video by myself and Loki. I kind of use some of my like UCLA scholarship money, so watch out fast.
- [21:53]
B
But no, but you were like an English major and you were working on like a literary project. You were building a literary. So it was like homework.
- [22:02]
A
Yeah, exactly. It's literally part of, part of my education. Yeah. So basically during that era I was like fully independent. I self funded the music video, I wrote the song entirely by myself. I was helping co produce the song. I was like doing all this stuff. So everything was very self contained, like it was just me. And I put out this, this music video into the world that was like, this is. I was like so stressed about it. I had class the same day that it dropped and I was in music class, like music theory class in the morning and the music video dropped and I was getting all these notifications and I was like looking under my desk and I was like, oh my God, what is happening? And I remember this is like, I, I think this is like the inciting incident for like how I am as a person now because after that music video came out and it was blowing up and everything, I got so much hate. Why I got so much Hate. And it was all very contained on Twitter for some reason, which. I mean. I mean, Twitter is a cesspool of just hate and vitriol. So that was my first mistake, like, logging on.
- [23:07]
B
Yeah.
- [23:08]
A
But once again, I was like, everything was just me. Like, it was. It was. I was the only person on my team, really. Like, so I was reading all these tweets, and it was mostly, like, gay K pop Twitter stans that were, like, flaming me. And they're, like, commenting on my body, my. My skin tone, my facial features, my voice, my songwriting, like, projecting all these different insecurities and different things on me and, like, talking about my looks and all these different things. And I've never felt so dissected like that in my entire life because I. Like, I said, I. Like, I'm a very reserved person, and, like, the artist version of me is very out there, but, like, me as a person, I'm very reserved. So, like, I was reading these alone in my room, and I'm, like, crying because I'm just like, oh, my God. Like, I. I don't know what's happening. And I've never felt this analyzed before. And then there was people coming out the woodwork, just, like, making up rumors about me because they thought. They thought it was funny, like, just saying things, just to say things. And I was like. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, and it was just. It was so hateful and so mean that I wanted to, like, fully disappear.
- [24:16]
C
Yeah.
- [24:16]
A
Like, I just felt so, like, defeated at that point. And that's the reason why for, like, two years, I kind of, like, disappeared a little bit. Like, I kind of retreated from the public eye, and I kind of focused on getting my degree. Like, I was like, I'm just gonna focus on getting my music degree because I switched to music.
- [24:34]
B
Okay, there we go.
- [24:35]
A
You know?
- [24:36]
C
Yeah.
- [24:37]
A
And then so I was like, I'm needed to do. I'm focusing on getting my music degree at ucla. I'm going to focus on the things that are in front of me and, you know, like, try to become a human being, you know, because I felt like I never really got the chance to grow up, especially with COVID and everything. Like, I felt like I was emotionally stunted in some way. So I was like, I need to live my life. I need to experience college. I need to be around people my age. I need to live my life. I need to take a trip somewhere. Like, I was living life. And, like, I think those two years actually helped me in so many ways, because taking a Break from, like, the public eye and just, like, putting everything out there and just having this tight schedule of, like, writing a song a day and, like, putting it out the same day and, like, everyone can criticize it and everything. Like, I was like, I need to sit down, reassess, like, what I want as an artist and what I want as a person, and then come back on my own terms because I was just really, really scared in that. Those moments. I was, like, really terrified that, like, that this was gonna be the end for me, you know?
- [25:39]
B
Yeah. And if you didn't have any artist friends at the time, time, it's, like, extra isolating because you, like, it's nice when you have someone who is in a similar field and can kind of understand what that feels like, but when you don't have that, it's so hard.
- [25:53]
A
Yeah, it was really, really hard because I, like, I didn't really have a huge community behind me, and I only had, like, a couple friends that were kind of in the entertainment industry that, like, kind of could understand. But, like, it wasn't in the same way that, like, I was understanding everything because I was in the middle of it all. So it just felt very isolating. And, like, I think for, like, like, two months, I barely talked to anybody, and I was going through a lot of, like, family, like, issues as well at the time. So I just, like. I wasn't talking to anybody, and I. I was, like, fully just like, maybe this is the end for my relationship with music. Like, I just don't know how to feel about this because I don't want to be dissected on the Internet for everything that I do. And I think that's why I have songs like Da Da Da and Strays that are now kind of like, reclaiming the narrative, being, like, if you don't like me, then you could say it, and I won't care anymore because, like, genuinely, like, I feel like I'm in this mindset where I'm just like, I know that people. Some people don't like me, and that could be for a multitude of reasons. And I know some people love me, and that could be for a multitude of reasons. And I was like, there are 7 billion people on this planet, almost 8 billion people on this planet. I was like, there's bound to be people that like you and bound to be people that love you and bound to be people that really hate you. So I'm just like, once you accept it all, then it's all peachy.
- [27:11]
B
Yeah, I know. It's. It's really tough. Like, I. I always think the. The one saving grace for me, because I. Not to your extent, obviously, but whenever I get hate, I always think, like, before I became a creator, I'd been working at BuzzFeed, and I feel like when you run an account with. With that many followers, like, I'd almost built calluses to hate comments, and it was like, it was a brand. So it's not like, it is harder when it's about you. Like, you were saying, you're like, it was me. Like, I didn't have a team around me. And the worst is, like, you know, when you do something online and they're like, she needs to fire her PR team. I'm like, no, babe, that was my bad.
- [27:44]
A
No, literally, I can't even blame anyone. Like, that was pulling me tweeting, like, where is Mad's PR team? I was like, it's literally just me. Like, $5 in a dream and just me. Like, I. I was like, I'm the PR team, and I'm crying right now. Like, I'm, like, not doing well.
- [27:59]
B
No, I'm like, babe, I'm the only one logged into my Gmail. Like, no one's handling any of this. Like, this is me.
- [28:05]
A
And I was like, I was. I was, like, a teenager that, like, didn't know anything. Like, I had never had any relationship with music prior to that, and this was, like, kind of, like, my first stunt at, like, becoming an artist and, like, figuring out things that I wanted and to see it, like, land in this way. I think in hindsight, it was very contained, and it was probably just a small circle of people on Twitter that were just, like, really campaigning to, like, shut me down. But, like, it worked. In some ways, it worked, and I was like. And I think that's why now I'm in this space where I'm just like, I will never let that happen again, and I will never let anybody have that power over me, because at the end of the day, I. I love what I do, and I love my job so much, and I love creating, and I will live and die for creating art.
- [28:50]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I. I love that you came out the other side and, like, yeah, now you have those calluses built up. So when things like that happen, you're like, maybe I had my worst day.
- [29:00]
A
Great.
- [29:01]
B
Like, yes.
- [29:01]
A
Metaphor for this.
- [29:03]
B
Yes. And then your background is Peruvian, Kanto, Taiwanese. How have you ever noticed any specific support come from leaning into those identities? Is it something you talk about? Is it something you stray from?
- [29:18]
C
Yeah.
- [29:19]
A
What do you think? In the beginning, I kind of, like. I kind of never talked about, like, my. My heritage in some ways. Like, I kind of wanted it to be, like, very colorblind in some ways. And I didn't really talk about my Asian identity nor, like, my part Hispanic identity in many ways. And I kind of regretted it. You know, Like, I. I was leaning very heavily into these, like, American aesthetics, very, like, American traditional, like, archetypes of, like, growing up in the suburbs and all these different things. So I was like, where does my identity, like, my cultural identity fit into that? And I never really felt like it could fit into it, so I kind of, like, discarded it in some ways, and I really regret that. And, you know, like, my dad immigrated from Taiwan, and my mom is of Kanto and Peruvian descent, and she was born in LA in South Central. So, like, I grew up around a lot of different culture and a lot of different, you know, like, people. And, you know, like, my grandma was born in Indonesia, and I was raised around Indonesian culture as well, and all these different things kind of culminating together. And I love. I love just being parts of all these different cultures. And now I'm in this part of my life where I'm, like. I'm so happy to, like, claim it and be part of these communities and, like, uplift other voices, because I, like, every single year, I host, like, biannual, like, concerts in my backyard, and I have all my Asian artist friends perform. So I host one for the lunar New Year and then one for the mid Autumn festival. And then I, like, support all my Asian artist friends. And then I, like, also have, like, a little matcha stand where I serve matcha to people. Oh, it's super cute. Yeah.
- [30:53]
B
Yeah.
- [30:54]
A
And I love supporting the community where I can. And I love the Asian community and the API community because they've been so welcoming to me. And I just love uplifting, like, the people in my community. And same thing with, like, my part Peruvian heritage. I. I'm a little bit precarious about, like, the label of, like, me being called Latino because, you know, like, a lot of people are very, very touchy about the subject because they consider Latino, like, you have to be born in Latin America and, like, speak fluent Spanish. My Spanish is not very. I'll be. I'm gonna be so real about that. I'm not even gonna sugarcoat it. I can speak Spanish, but it's not to the greatest, like, native fluent level. It's too conversational level. But I love representing where I can, because I always. I literally Just read a DM this morning while I was, like, getting ready for this, and it's a. Like, it was a queer Peruvian fan in Peru, and they're like, thank you for representing us. Like, it's not every day you see an artist that represents this part of our identity. And, like, that just makes my heart really, really happy because I love seeing, like, Taiwanese Kanto Peruvian fans, you know, like, anybody from any of these cultures, like, see themselves in me because I wish that I saw myself in all these different artists growing up, you know?
- [32:09]
B
Yeah. That leads me, like, seamlessly into my next question, which is, like, you had these songs, like, Stacy's Brother, and it's interesting, you were saying, like, at that time, you were leaning really into the American. Like, to me, Stacy's mother has got it going on is such, like, an Americana, like, American Pie, like, American song. And so it's interesting, like, I. I do kind of connect those very Americana. But as much as you're comfortable talking about, like, your queer identity, can you kind of explain. Explain that and how it is reflected in your music? Was that something like, obviously your songs early on were leaning into that. Were you afraid of being open about that, or were you like, this is who I am. Like, you know, again, like, that magnetism. I don't care. It'll bring in the right people.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah, I mean, it was a mix of both, honestly, because I was very conflicted in the beginning. I was like, I don't know if I should be putting out a song like Boy by as my, like, debut single. And I think at the end of the day, I was like, you know what? I think, like, there are so many people that love the song just from the acoustic little version that I posted onto TikTok and people demanding that song. And I was like, you know what? Like, I'm starting out, I'm learning, and I'm growing as an artist. Might as well grow with my fans as well, because I'm figuring myself out, and there's so many people that are figuring themselves out at the same time. So, like, would put out Boy, bye, and the rest is history. Like, I recorded, like, this little music video on my laptop, and it was like, literally, like, 1:00am My parents were, like, sleeping. I was in my room, and I was, like, just dressing up in, like, different wild outfits and just dancing around my room. And then I sent it to a friend in OC to get it edited, and then I just posted it, and, you know, like, everything just happened all at once, and I was like, oh, wow. Like, People really, really, like, love this and resonate with this and, like, want to see me grow, and I want to see them grow as well. So I'm like. I feels very familial with, like, my fans in some way because over the last, like, five years, I've, like, kind of, like, grown with them, and I think that's really beautiful. And even though I don't think boy Bye, like, fully represents me now because I kind of go by the label of, like, queer, because I feel like that kind of encompasses my identity a bit more.
- [34:30]
B
Because I was curious when I was listening to the song, I was like, okay, maybe he leans more bi.
- [34:33]
C
Yeah.
- [34:34]
B
But, like, as you've gotten older, you now identify more queer.
- [34:37]
A
Yeah.
- [34:37]
B
Okay.
- [34:37]
A
I think, like, I don't want to box myself in by any, like, labels, boss. At the same time, I. I know for sure that I'm not,
- [34:46]
C
like.
- [34:46]
A
I know for sure that I'm like.
- [34:48]
B
You're, like, maybe down the line. Well, it's like.
- [34:51]
A
Like, it's.
- [34:51]
B
When you go so far left, you go right.
- [34:54]
A
There's, like, some points where I was like, maybe I'm asexual because I'm like. I was like, maybe, like, I. I'm not built for anybody, but, like, thinking
- [35:02]
B
you're asexual to, like, queer. Pipeline is so strong, though.
- [35:05]
C
I know.
- [35:06]
A
Oh, my God. It is such a thing. And I'm like, if I can't have. If I'm not going for anybody.
- [35:14]
C
Yeah.
- [35:14]
A
Then I'll go for everybody. It's like, let me just go off the defense.
- [35:19]
C
Yes. Oh, my God. Wait.
- [35:20]
B
That's so funny. Do you have any. And this is the part we can, like, also cut out if it's. The timing's not right, but do you have any songs coming out that I explore the identity anymore in different ways?
- [35:34]
C
Yeah.
- [35:34]
A
I mean, well, Bite and Diet obviously kind of explore it in a less overt way. Okay. Just kind of like, you know, like, I kind of, like, casually mention queerness in a lot of my songs. Even though it's, like, at the center of, like, my identity, I just want it to feel like at the center, it's just a fun pop song, you know, like, anybody can listen to it. Straight people can listen to it, queer people can listen to it. Anybody can listen to it. But at the end of the day, I would just want to make fun pop music. But I do have a single coming out called no One's Son, where I kind of explore a lot of, like, the aspects of my identity. Like, you know, I never really felt like I belonged anywhere. And like I said, like, me as a person, I'm very, like, preserved. Like, I'm. I kind of love my alone time and I don't really talk to a lot of people. Like, if. If I don't go out of my way to. Then I just kind of, like, spend a lot of time with myself. I like taking myself out and, you know, kind of going incognito when I'm in public and stuff. So I really never have felt like I belonged in any particular space. Even when I was, like, growing up, I never felt myself attached to any archetype or group or anything like that. Never any specific culture, never any specific identity. Like, it's always been like, a mix of these different things. So I've always felt like kind of like the floater, the free agent that's always kind of like moving from group to group. So no one's son is kind of about, like, you know, like, being alone as a person, you know, and kind of like coming to terms with that, you know, as somebody that. Whose best friend is themselves. And, you know, it's not all peachy. It's all. It can be very isolating and it can be very sad sometimes, but at the end of the day, when you're your only person, that's all you have.
- [37:28]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I love that. That's. That. I didn't realize how much in this interview, too, it would be such a good theme, like, how introverted, rooted you are, which it just like it. I just didn't expect it because it reads so different, which I think is cool. But that leads me to another question I love to ask all my guests because this is an LA based show. LA is my hometown. Like, is there a plate? What's, like, the best place to go out in la? And if you don't go out like that, maybe like the best restaurant.
- [37:59]
A
Okay. Okay. Actually. Oh, gosh. Okay. I love Peruvian food so much. I love Peruvian food a lot. Like, it's one of my favorite cuisines. And, like, that's also been one of, like, my biggest connectors to Peruvian culture because, like, I learned how to, like, cook Peruvian food when I was back in, like, middle school and high school. Like, I. That was kind of my way of connecting with, like, Peruvian culture in a way. My parents would always take me every single year, me and my sister, every single year. Like, we'd always have family gatherings at this one Peruvian restaurant in Torrance, actually.
- [38:37]
B
Torrance. Oh, my God.
- [38:38]
C
Yeah.
- [38:39]
B
Yeah.
- [38:40]
A
God. El Casa Inca. El Pollonca.
- [38:43]
B
Okay.
- [38:44]
A
El Pollo Inca. That's the name of the restaurant. And then their food is so freaking good. But if you're looking for more Asian fusion, Peruvian places. Chifa in Silver Lake, SL Eagle Rock. Amazing. The family that owns it. Love them. I literally just went, like, two days ago, and I adore their food. And then Japanese, Peruvian fusion, also fantastic. Hummingbird ceviche house in Silver Lake. Fantastic.
- [39:09]
C
Okay.
- [39:10]
A
And then if you're looking for. Oh, God, I just went to this Thai restaurant, actually, and the owner was the nicest lady ever. And we went there and we went on the one day they apparently, like, bring students from this performing arts school in Thailand over.
- [39:27]
B
While you were there.
- [39:27]
A
Yeah. And wait, that's crazy. And they were, like, performing and everything. They were singing covers and, like, doing, like, all these crazy things. And they were dancing while we were, like, eating food. It was crazy. And the owner, she was so nice, and she just started dancing with us, and we all just started dancing. And wait, I need to. I need to make sure that I pronounce this right.
- [39:45]
B
Okay. So cool.
- [39:46]
A
Because it is. It was a beautiful place. And, like, their food was amazing, and so I highly recommend it. And it's kind of. I think it's in Thai town. I want to.
- [39:55]
B
I want to say, is there, like. Do you know the history behind why there's Peruvian Asian fusion restaurants? Because isn't Peru, like, near the South Pole? Am I wrong?
- [40:06]
A
So Peru is in Latin America, but then. So, like, South America. But then there's a lot of Chinese and Japanese immigrants.
- [40:13]
B
Oh, okay. That's so interesting. I didn't know that. I was like, what's the connection? Because they're so far. Yeah, but that's interesting.
- [40:18]
A
There's a lot of Japanese and Chinese.
- [40:19]
C
Okay.
- [40:20]
A
So my, like, Peruvian family, like, like, they were all born and raised in Peru and Lima, but then they all look very, like, ambiguous. Like, like pretty Asian. So, like, I remember, like, when we were going for, like, a family reunion to go to this, like, Colombian restaurant, they ordered in, like, fluent Spanish, and the guy taking our order was like, who is this? Like, what is this Asian family doing? Like, I. How do they know Spanish?
- [40:48]
B
So interesting.
- [40:49]
A
That is.
- [40:49]
B
I'm so fascinated, like, diasporas and, like, why certain communities move certain areas. So that's just really interesting.
- [40:56]
C
Yeah.
- [40:56]
A
Historically, there's a huge, huge population of Chinese and, like, Japanese people in Peru.
- [41:03]
B
Okay.
- [41:04]
A
It's Wat Dong Moon Leg.
- [41:06]
B
Okay. And it's in Silver. Oh, wait, no.
- [41:09]
A
Tha Town Moon.
- [41:11]
B
Okay.
- [41:12]
A
Amazing food. And it's, like, pretty well priced. As well.
- [41:15]
C
Okay.
- [41:16]
A
And then. Oh, I need to mention, I need to shout out Indo food as well, cuz Indonesian food is so underrated. Simpong Asia, there's one in Culver and I think there's one in Venice. Fantastic. I like, after, like, my grandma passed, I like, for an entire year, I basically ordered. Oh, ordered their food like every other day. And I, like, was eating their food like every single day.
- [41:37]
B
And what is, like Indonesian specialty? Is it like noodles? Is it rice? Is there like a certain dish that I should order if I'm going?
- [41:44]
A
Oh, gosh. Okay. Nasi goreng is really, really good. Oh, they have their own, like, kind of version. Oh, what's it called? I'm forgetting, I'm forgetting. But nasi gring.
- [41:57]
C
Okay.
- [41:58]
A
Like the fried rice that they have. Fantastic. Also, like the fried green beans that they have. Amazing. The ones at Simpong Asia, they used to have like a vegan curry that was fantastic. There's also, like, different foods for different, like, like holidays. Like, they have festival rice and it's this like triangular, like yellow rice and it like, looks like jelly. Like you could shake it and it like moves with you. It's great.
- [42:24]
B
Okay, that's so interesting. It's this randomly makes me think of. I learned in one of my marketing classes in college that that Thai food, the reason it's so popular in America is they wanted to attract western tourism to Thailand. So in the 90s, they gave a bunch of grants to people to move to America and start Thai restaurants. Because then they knew if people became open to the food and it became popular, they would want to travel to Thailand.
- [42:50]
C
Wow.
- [42:50]
A
And it worked.
- [42:51]
B
Yeah, and it worked.
- [42:52]
A
It worked.
- [42:52]
B
So it makes me think, like Indonesian people, food, if it starts like, you know, I think food is such a connector. And then I wanted to ask if, you know, if not, you can just do your sun sign. Do you know your sun, moon and rising?
- [43:03]
A
I know that I'm a cancer.
- [43:06]
B
Okay.
- [43:06]
A
For the big one. Yeah, the big one. But I know that I have like a double cancer in there somewhere. Like, I have two cancers and I think I might have Scorpio somewhere.
- [43:14]
C
Yeah.
- [43:14]
B
Because like the vampire vibe, like, has. You have to have a Scorpio somewhere.
- [43:18]
A
So I think it's because I'm a very emotional person. I'm like a very, like, I keep to myself and I'm like trying to work on it. Like, if I get feel like sad, I'll just be like, I'll just shut off. I'll just be like,
- [43:34]
C
so I need
- [43:34]
A
to stop being so cancer.
- [43:36]
B
Okay.
- [43:36]
A
But. But yes, I. I love being cancer.
- [43:39]
B
Okay. And then you maybe have a tour coming up.
- [43:43]
C
I
- [43:46]
A
can't say too much about specific, like, dates and everything, but it will be North America and Europe.
- [43:51]
B
Okay. Oh, Europe. Wait. World tour. Okay. Yay.
- [43:54]
A
Surprisingly, like, my fan base is pretty, like, large in Europe.
- [43:57]
B
Oh, that's so exciting.
- [43:58]
C
Yeah.
- [43:59]
A
Like, and I want to go to Europe so bad because I've never been.
- [44:01]
B
You've never been? Oh, my God.
- [44:02]
C
Okay.
- [44:02]
B
Europe's like my. Like, I just love Europe, so that's amazing that you get to go there for.
- [44:06]
A
I'm so excited.
- [44:07]
B
Obviously you're going to be busy, but it'll be fun.
- [44:09]
A
Yeah, yeah. I'm excited to, like, go to Paris and stuff.
- [44:12]
B
Yes. People, like, hate on Paris. I love Paris. I love Paris. Her so much. And yeah, I love Paris. I love the south of France. But usually people don't go on tours
- [44:21]
A
in the south of France. Okay. But yeah, you want to go to London so bad.
- [44:24]
B
Oh, my God. I've never been. I want to go to London too, though.
- [44:27]
C
Fun.
- [44:27]
B
Okay.
- [44:28]
C
Yay.
- [44:28]
B
We'll end there. Yay.
- [44:29]
C
Thank you.
- [44:30]
B
Oh, my God. Do we have anything that we wanted to include that we didn't release dates? And then will you take a photo of us once I move this TV tray holding the. And then before we did cut everything. I just want to say, because you
- [44:43]
A
do have an iconic hairstyle, and sometimes
- [44:44]
B
we talk about iconics hairstyles.
- [44:46]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [44:47]
B
We can talk about that. Your hair. Yeah, just like, a quick minute on it. I was thinking that we watched a music video.
- [44:51]
C
Okay.
- [44:52]
A
It's so iconic.
- [44:53]
B
Matthew, are we still rolling? Cool. Okay, we'll do that. So one of my videos that, like, made me popular on Tick Tock was I came up with this thing called the Hollywood hair theory. And I was like, everyone who becomes, like, famous as a music artist has an iconic hair. It's like the moment they, like, watch that video. Maybe it was like, I talked about Chapel, Ronan. One like, Ice Spice did it. Taylor Swift's blonde bangs. You have such an iconic hair. Was this, like, do you feel like it's been an intentional marketing play?
- [45:25]
A
Oh, 1,000%. I like, I'm such a type a person when it comes to, like, planning out, like, the visuals. Like, the visuals your team sent me.
- [45:35]
B
Your like, like, you're like, oh, yeah.
- [45:36]
A
Oh, my God, I am such a sucker for Google Slides. I Google Slides like, it's the Navy. Like, I'm sending my managers and everybody involved with me, like literally like a Google Slide like every two weeks and being like, yeah, this is the next treatment for, for XY.
- [45:51]
B
Like so like a 30 second tick tock.
- [45:53]
C
Yeah.
- [45:53]
A
Yeah. I was like, this is like our, our TikTok marketing plan and stuff. No, but in this, like, I made a whole like 20 slide, like deck about like what this upcoming project was gonna look like, this ep. And I was like, okay, these are the aesthetics. This is what's going to look like. And then in one of the slides, I was like, the new look. Because I was like, I knew 1000% that I wanted to reinvent myself and I want to do that with every era because like I said, like, it's like I'm playing a character. Like I'm becoming somebody else for each era. So for that I already have the next look planned for the next era too. And like I, in so many of like the photos, I like, had red hair and I was just like, there's something there. Like, I love the red so much. And I like, I was so worried about it because I was like, I don't know how it's gonna look on me or anything like that. And then I think, okay, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this or like, if my cut it out, my PR girl's gonna get mad at me. I was high as in bed.
- [46:51]
C
Yeah.
- [46:51]
A
One night and all of a sudden I was like, red hair.
- [46:56]
B
It was so good.
- [46:57]
A
Yes. And I, I love it. That's how I get a lot of my best ideas.
- [47:01]
B
Me too. I get it in naps.
- [47:02]
A
Oh my God.
- [47:03]
B
Yes.
- [47:03]
A
I like, I'll wake up from a nap and I'll be like, yes.
- [47:06]
B
Like those 30 seconds where I'm waking up from a nap, I'll be like. And I'm like, that's. That's it. It's like, it's like, there's no ego.
- [47:12]
A
We'll say that I, I developed it after I woke up from a nap.
- [47:16]
B
Yeah, we'll call it a nap. Yes.
- [47:17]
C
Red.
- [47:18]
A
Red hair and black streaks.
- [47:19]
B
It's so. And, and even like I wore red lipstick because I wanted to match your hair. So I was like, it was like a visual cue for me, which was great. And then obviously the vampires.
- [47:27]
A
Yes. I love the red hair so much. And like, it's so funny because the months before I even planned everything, I was, I just had my natural hair, which is just like, I have like the darkest black hair ever. So nobody recognized me whatsoever. Like, for like months, nobody ever came up to Me. Nobody ever said hello to me. But, like, that was kind of in between, like, projects anyway, so I was like, okay. Like, it's kind of quiet, but the minute that I dyed my hair red and started posting about it and, like, posting these videos and, like, posting bites, I would get, like, so many different people coming up to me and, like, they. Because they can't. You can't ignore me with the red hair. It's, like, so funny.
- [48:04]
B
It is fully a thing I notice, even for me, people approach me more when I have my hair flipped like this versus when it's straight or, like, in a bun. It's like. And people have said, I recognize you from the bob. Like, it's like, the Bob.
- [48:17]
A
The BOB holds power. Like, we need to talk about the power of a bob.
- [48:21]
B
Because when people have a bob, there is something really powerful about it.
- [48:23]
A
No, because the way it moves, you know, it's just, like, something about it. It's great.
- [48:27]
B
Yes. Hollywood hair theory.
- [48:30]
C
Okay.
- [48:30]
B
Amazing. I'm glad we talked about that. Okay, so we're. You stay in the seat. We're gonna take a photo before you move. This was so good. Thanks for being just so open and I know.
- [48:38]
A
Thanks for having me and thanks for asking, like, amazing questions.
- [48:41]
B
Oh, I'm so glad. Sometimes, like, when I talk to artists that are newer, like, they're not as, like, good at talking yet, but, like, you were just so good at being interest.
- [48:51]
A
That PR training. No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm not.
- [48:53]
B
Our PR agents that we don't have.
- [48:54]
C
I know.
- [48:55]
A
Just like, the PR team, and it's just.